How far will one stallion run to escape what pursues him?
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I have to say, if not for the griffons gearing up for war, I see little issue with their industrialization.
Sure, pollution is an issue, but once they figure out more efficient means of production, and if the griffons are as warlike as you have made them out to be, efficiency and infrastructure are all grindstones that sharpen the blade, and they would find them.
However, Fleshrender's personal megalomania does not sit right with me. Consumption of sapient life notwithstanding, that's the only issue I have with him, aside from the war, that is.
Ok. Can we just have someone bring Rising Star here and have him call on good ol' Uncle Scorch to Purify the land in glorious Hellfire? Preferably with most of the griffons still here, the ones there were no hope for for peace and changing their ways since most seem deluded into thinking this is the way for them. And then once everything has been burned away have Bucky encase it in a contained Ice Age.
Add an "of" there.
I wouldn't mind it if Huginn got the ol' Fire and Brimstone treatment myself, reading that was quite harrowing.
5194994
I read a lot about industrialised London when I researched this.
London was a shithole.
5195029
I imagine it was probably pretty much like how the game Dishonored was. Except less steampunk.
5195060
5195029
Oh yeah, industrial London had smog like Beijing , only low on the ground. It was coal-based from all the factories and street lamps before they went to gas, then electricity. Most people couldn't see more than about twenty feet in front of them on a good day.
And people wonder why Jack the Ripper never got caught.
so less health effects but more emotional effects? makes some sense there. albeit mining is not as painful to the earth as pollution is. you are just shifting dirt and stone with mining. pollution seeps into the soil poisoning beast and tree alike.
you ever watch legend of korra? they actually have a theme like this kinda going on. had a nation fall to pieces and the one who put it back together has decided to take it all over.
Well despite the downer this chapter was it was rather informative.
Well for those in favor of the fire death, there's obviously plenty of stuff to burn with all that coal and crude oil lying around. but would burning it all really help the land that was poisoned and or strip mined by all the coal dependent industry? it would sort of become a city-sized tire fire, just one supremely massive smog producer that wouldn't stop burning for days.
For those wondering about how the earth ponies were faring, we get a very telling reaction. it is painful for them to be this close to such pollution and reckless desecration of the earth around them.
And for those doubting the gryphon prince and princess, it would be hard to take what's left of the griifin race in a worse direction without declaring war. And since that seems to be where the griffins are headed anyway, it's just one more thing they'll try to avoid as much as possible.
5195080
While I would say maybe yes to normal mining, what the griffons have done sounds akin to taking a person with no tolerance of pain to the point bug bite is enough nearly paralyze them with pain and then proceed to dig their eyes out of their sockets with dull, rusty, wooden spoons covered in salt and some other shit just to make it even worse.
If they don't like the state of Griffonholm, then they'll die if they see the state of our world.
too
Our
5195108
if you kill a man, you are a murderer... kill many, you are a conqueror. Kill them all... you're a god...
5195070
Whale oil lamps.
The fumes produced pneumonia like symptoms in those who breathed them.
Almost every home had them, both here in America and in London.
5195140 I bet they smelled either delicious, like regular petrochemicals, or just awful.
Sadly, I will never know personally.
5195239
Surprise is married to a lunar pegasus and has a lunar pegasus foal of her own.
5195247
It smelled like burning rotten fish with the heady after aroma of rancid lard left in the hot sun for too long.
5195284 You underestimate how much I love the smell of fumes given off by burning fuels.
Honestly, I might like it.
5195293
When I was a kid living on the indian reservation, I got to smell the burning buffalo oil on a nightly basis. It was nausea inducing and made my asthma flare up something awful.
It was like one of the worst smells in the world and I can still remember it to this day. And buffalo tallow candles. Or beef tallow candles.
5195303 Industry, my friend, industry. Taking raw materials and turning them into something useful that may be wielded by mankind if as close to holy as I shall ever consider anything. Those blighted scents are the perfumes of progress, the pain in your lungs is nature's way of fighting back against her terrible children, and we march ever onward.
5195316
Mang, it was like a rotten carcass left in the sun for weeks, until it was ready to explode with ripeness, the flesh putrefied, and then set on fire.
I don't know how to describe it, but I can still TASTE it. It was so bitter and acrid in the air, ugh.
5195333 Just the thought puts a smile on my face.
5195336
I still hate thinking back on those days.
I do wonder if it somehow made me a better writer though. Or worse.
5195342 The interesting thing would be finding out just how it affected you, not just wondering if it has affected you, nor the general direction, but the precise measure of how it has changed the way you think, the way you write.
In fact, I believe every author could greatly benefit from a detailed behavioral profiling and literary analysis.
5195356
I am an INTJ, a Discordian, something of a Taoist, and I like Zen Dadaism. I struggle daily to keep from slipping into Nihilism, because I believe that Nihilism is the death of self. I am something of a pragmatic existentialist, an absurdist, and a very open minded sceptic. I tend to loathe conservatism, and I am an anarcho-socialist.
I have also figured out the secrets to perpetual motion.
5195397 Also an INTJ, believes in the imperfection of nature and the perfection of machines. I value human life but only places value upon my own if others value it (no reason to live unless there is something to be done). I am a firm believer that the ends justify the means, and that biological evolution's only perfection shall arrive as a construction of sapient life, and therefore the natural endpoint is artificial.
There is no strength in flesh, only weakness.
5195433
THE SINGULARITY!
All hail the singularity!
I wait for it too.
5195447 Oh, no, I do not mean the creation or artificial intelligence, but the perfect union between what is natural and what is artificial, wrought by the hands of nature. Oh, certainly, Man shall make life in His own image, but not before He resides in immortal machinery. A duality of living, nature-made minds residing in inorganic, Man-made bodies. Imagine it, kudzu!
No more baser instinct, existence free of hormonal intervention, free from the animalistic drives of a temporal body. Everything purely intellectual, everything equal. Even war, the most basic part of Man, will be waged by metal and plastic wrought by His hands, driven by His mind.
The Man of Flesh shall become a Man of Iron, and in His Undeath, He shall know Life.
5195029 Modern Chinese industry would make it look like a park on a warm spring day...but yeah...pretty bleak.
While I am someone who is for a more relentless way of progress in both the scientific and industrial world I still am a firm believer of "don't shit where you eat" which is something I guess the gryphons never figured out. That being said, I am with the gryphons on the hill part. In context their actions make sense. They could either spend a decade in trying to get the stuff through traditional mining or they can pit mine it with several fold the efficiency to get the essential life fule an industry needs. Not doing it because it loows pweety is bullshit. Granted this is from a being who lives on a world that is little more than a rock and not a ley-line nerves entity in and of itself but again, the gryphons are a bit from the same page. We nor they get an easy ride from the fucking aether to do shit that would make any normal person question what their fucking value is when there are things smaller than you that can do the job of your 15 crew alone in an afternoon. The earth never gave them shit beyond being able to sing a few smooth tunes so what the fuck is wrong with them deciding that if dear Mother Nature isn't gonna give her children equal slices of the cake then we are gonna claim our fair share with a fucking knife.
this is probably that fleshrender thought right before he also had the thought "in fact, fuck those other children of the earth that got better lots on the evolutionary lottery. They have had more than us ever since those fucking ponies decided to stomp us into submission and then stomp a few more times just to make the point (in a striking resemblance to how the US handled the middle east, right down to the result except now with industry instead of religion). I am going to take my share of the cake in pounds if flesh if I have to."
So all in all I guess I blame the ponies a bit, think the gryphons went a bit overboard but not as much as the ponies think (except the killing and slaughtering of other sentient beings, I mean Jesus Christ) and fuck the earth pony hippieness that you can't sacrifice a hill for progress.
5195411
Thank you kindly.
5195397
*Doesn't recognize the name nihilism*
*looks it up*
Oh apparently I'm already a nihilist, I came up with this on my own a while ago without actually knowing that there was a philosophical doctrine that existed on this.
That's cool.
So why is it the death of self?
Chapter 44, bug in the end:
"Her she" - what? I think that may be bug.
5196374
If nothing is of value, if nothing matters, how can you judge yourself? How can you censure yourself? Feel ashamed, feel proud? Why would you do something uncomfortable or painful because you believe it's worthwhile when nothing is worthwhile? If it's all just some chemicals in your head, not important or valuable, why would you pay attention to them beyond ridding yourself of ephemeral discomfort?
If the stars are no more special than the dirt, why would you reach for them?
By believing everything is pointless, you make yourself pointless.
5196374
What growth comes out of nihilism? Any growth would be a contradiction.
Life is meaningless and there is no good reason to continue, go on, or otherwise further my existence. The only logical conclusion to nihilism is to commit suicide.
All values are meaningless and baseless. Might as well do anything and everything. Fuck little kids and wipe your bloody dick on their teddy bear, beat the elderly to death with baseball bats, chop up vagrants and feed them to the homeless, all of those really horrible things that people can think of. You might as well... this is nihilism. After all, nothing is inherently wrong. It is a philosophy of extreme pessimism and moral bankruptcy.
In fact, this whole conversation is meaningless under nihilism, there is no point. There is no good reason to be discussing this. Or writing. Or reading. Because nihilism means nothing. It means to annihilate, beginning with self.
The end result of nihilism is negation.
5196514
5196374
And sorry about my extreme example here, please don't hate me for it, but if you were actually a nihilist, it wouldn't bother you at all. This is a self illustrating point.
And I feel bad for making it.
5196525 Hehehehehehehehe
Well that does kinda confirm it xD
Life is meaningless, but you can be selfish and continue it to see what happens next
This is probably going to insult somebody
5196502
I don't care about things, I have no ambition at all, I'm just curious as to what will happen next
that's pretty much the point behind the lack of my suicidal tendencies any more. I just wonder, and I cant do that if my mind no longer functions
TADA :D
5195480
You're right about that, but I've seen a list of differences and there are multiple sources that state that "curiousity" is wrong. But I have to refer to this thread about the English language in general.
5194956
The issue is that the land is dead. They have no need of this polluted self-indulgent industrial revolution. This is the Equestrian Earth, not our world with our history. The so-called progress needs to be made in controlled locales, experimentation - until they can discover clean industry, and then it needs to be heavily restricted or controlled by the crown so the natural resources of the world are not stripped bare by soulless industry leaders and ponies/griffons trying to get a leg up. Without competition and pollution, the land would remain safe and then you could have industrial progress in society.
Any rebuttal I can think of to that ignores the Equestrian Earth dynamic in favor of our Earth's history in industry, which doesn't apply here in this situation.
5196631 I never said there was no issue in-universe, I specifically stated that I saw no issue with pollution. You and I are not in universe, we observe from an outside perspective, through our filters; the two of us, as well, are wonderful examples of personal filters: you believe that such industry should be controlled and made more environmentally friendly, whereas I believe it should ran rampant until it finds true efficiency.
Sure, the earth is screaming out to be saved, but one cannot build an ivory tower without killing a few elephants, now can he?
Oh my. Those Griffins are gonna create the first Diesel and Gasoline engines and if they have knowledge of high/low pressure based flight, explosive rounds, etc.
They already have great understanding of automated machinery, it wouldn't be hard to incorporate that into weapons.
Facism...omg, no, just no. Once great, prideful griffon race will rise from poverty and pollution brought on by other countries and themselves...oh dear, oh dear.
They won't need many numbers in their population and forces, they just need overpowering technology. Weapons, engineering, sciences, all will be the undoing of the surrounding nations as they take and take and take, Romans+Germans WWII= Griffin war= First World War known to Equus.
Please, with all your heart Kudzuhaiku. Correct me if I'm wrong!
5196857
SUCCESS!
5196964
My spelling is something archaic. Monkey sorry.
Püh. No fascist, my flank.
5196716
I bet Fleshrender has a little black spot on the tip of his upper beak.
"All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Sorry, I had to.
5195116
Ahww, but it looked so athmospheric in Mary Poppins...
No, jokes aside, as much as I love that movie, that always bothered me.
"Oh, look, how funny and beautiful is the matter of mindless pollution! Let's build stairs out of it! Weehee! "
5196691
Very well. We'll leave it at that I find your personal view of how industrial progress should be carried out to be suicidal on a societal, environmental, and health level.
5196553
The point made there is thus. The "Let's continue it and see what happens" is not the view of an actual nihilist. It's contradictory. Doing so would be a waste of effort. It would be giving meaning to time not yet lived. Creating the same sort of meaning that everyone else uses to put stock in the future "Tomorrow, something else/better might happen." This shares the viewpoint that everyone else subscribes to. Which is not nihilistic.
5197155 killing yourself, honestly would take more effort than actually going on.
Of course this is depending on how you live.
5197147 and since you gave your opinion, I shall give mine: I find your view nothing more than societal weakness that puts progress and results behind care for individuals and a planet too weak to defend itself.
5196716 Im not Kudz, but your wrong!
On a few areas anyway. Germany's armies in WW2 were actually way behind in terms of equipment. Infantry carried obsolete bolt-action rifles, troop mechanization was way behind that of the soviets and western nations, meaning the infantry had to slog through mud and the artillery towed their gun with horses.
Most of the larger guns that were mechanized were hastily welded onto just about anything that could carry them. Obsolete tanks, captured tanks, army trucks, civilian trucks, etc.
Tank divisions were but a fraction of the size they were supposed to be, their designs were rushed and deeply flawed and by the end of the war more tanks were lost due to a lack of fuel and ammunition than to enemy fire.
The German army wasn't the mechanised, hyper-modern war machine German propaganda claimed it to be but that propaganda sure worked. People still believe it.
Much of the same actually goes for the Romans. They were not substantially ahead of the Greeks, Carthaginians or even the 'barbarians' in terms of militrary technology (no surprise given that most earlier Roman tech came from their neighbours). They excelled with discipline, organisation and tactics.
5197446 As in quickly getting advanced engineering, like the Germans and using tactics of the romans.
5197096 If they use Roman tactics, like I believe the story is suggesting.