I would like for more on sunshines thoughts. (completely forgot her name. The baby Celestia in light) maybe have them all talk in stars dream because Luna went in to see if star is alive still sees nightmare there's yelling soon to be fighting star stops them explains to Luna and then light gets dragged in from sleeping with some mare from the bat pony ranks maybe. (maybe? We know he's getting some bat Pussy ) but yeah. Other then that this was a good rebirth chapter. I want more and I want sexy times soon please. Dream sex is always fun never forget that!

OOOOOHHHHH SHIIIT! 10/10 would read again. Need another,

You sir are a mind reader. I was just stating on a particular forum about 4 hours ago that I was needing another chapter from this being that it had been so long since the last one. So happy!

Edit: Or I just haven't been reading comments lol.

took you long enough.

IT LIVES

-Internal screaming-

It seemed really good. But it has been so long I will probably go back and read a few older chapters because I don't really remember what was going on besides a few vague plot points.

Damn this is getting dark

Good stuff for the most part.

Celestia is being ridiculous when she says what Luna is doing is monstrous. We're talking about enemy combatants who have not surrendered, and who have shown themselves to have no problems murdering ponies in gruesome fashion. They did not surrender and were perfectly valid targets. Letting the loss of life occur for your own selfish reasons when you had the ability to stop it at any time is monstrous.

I honestly don't see what's so terrifying about their powers either. They're powerful, so what? Power in of itself is not bad or something to fear, it's when someone has shown themselves to abuse that power or are likely to do so that fear is valid. Seeking friendships and peace via diplomacy is kind of the antithesis to this.

My own government has tremendous power. Plenty of states out there including the US have incredible power, to the point where if someone wanted to right now, they could kill us instantly. Do I live in fear of this? No, because it's not likely to come to pass.

Celestia and Luna do not fit the definitions of monsters. Well, other than Celestia's selfishness, perhaps.

I hope Star isn't crippled.

This chapter is just....wow, the backstory between the bat ponies and the ponies from Stalliongrad was just...delightful
( I for one love background information etc.) The battle was nothing short of epic and the ending of this chapter was...indescribable, to love somepony for who they are and not what they are.
What is Luna? Luna is a Princess with power and wealth.
Who is Luna? Luna is a pony...and that what I see.
who do you see?

p.s Worth the wait

6886027
I get what you're saying, but try to look at it in the context of a society that is reluctant to take life. They could have let the outcasts retreat and deal with them later. Most ponies only know of basic magical abilities of Equestrian unicorns and accept for the raise/lower sun/moon, haven't see anything significantly powerful from their rulers in their lifetime. So for the Royal sisters to instantly obliterate hundreds if not over a thousand lives in an instant, is pretty horrifying. Sure, it's justified in some peoples eyes, but I've tried to view the modern Equestrian concept of one that values piece and only kills if necessary. Note that fallen outcasts were captured, not out-right killed during the battle.
There's more behind the scenes as well. Pacts that were made between the aspects not to abuse their powers. Sort of a God-power Cold war. But we'll get into that soon enough.
I know you don't agree, but try to put yourself in the horseshoes of an average citizen of Equestria who up until then, lived in a more upbeat and positive life and conflict/strife is a rarity.

so much to say this is a chapter to be placed in the history books. there is so much in the first 1/2 of the chapter that gets over shadowed in the last 1/4 but at the same time the ends is a total shock.
every thing has changed star steep answered the question best.
Nightmare's earlier question came back to echo in his ears. “Can you love a monster?”
Without a doubt, he now had his answer.
Yes, yes he could.
a totally amassing chapter.
was it worthy the weight? hell yes.
Indigo Eclipse maybe at some point you will find your way over to team speak and we can spend some time chating.

Harts Fire

6885990
It gets lighter in the next arc. This needed to be dark to get a few points across. Especially about Luna. But dont worry. Comedy returns!

6886049
Well, no more than usual. He's a resilient pony.

6886124 Good to hear!

By the night, It Lives! Awesome chapter, and to answer the question at the end, Yes. Yes I could. Fuck all whom disagree!

6886116

Surely Celestia and Luna are less naive? Celestia is the one who called Luna's actions monstrous. Starstep also calls Luna a monster in his narration (or specifically answers the question whether he can love a "monster"), though that's rather bizarre given that his sharing of her philosophy is one thing that ties them together; remember the guy tortures a captive when most would consider that disgusting. He knows by now some of the evil that lurks out there.

So for the Royal sisters to instantly obliterate hundreds if not over a thousand lives in an instant, is pretty horrifying.

It is. But so is war. A pretty much instant and relatively painless death compared to conventional combat which would see suffering on a completely different scale. It's horrible to have to resort to it, but the alternative is worse. They don't have to be having parades and fireworks over it, but it doesn't make Celestia and Luna monsters because of it.

Sure, it's justified in some peoples eyes, but I've tried to view the modern Equestrian concept of one that values piece and only kills if necessary. Note that fallen outcasts were captured, not out-right killed during the battle.

Western societies generally subscribe to this. Equestria would have to be ridiculously naive to hold a view even less tolerant of killing, given that they're facing an enemy that mutilates, tortures, and murders them. Now this is fine as a plot point; maybe they really are that stupid and naive. Maybe they do think that it makes Celestia and Luna monsters (though they'd be fucking stupid unless they value a slow and painful death before their enemies wear their bones as trophies). However that doesn't mean that Celestia and Luna should be calling themselves monsters, just because they have some brain cells between them, and some knowledge of war and evil.

Back in the real world, with the nuking of Japan the disagreement mostly stems from whether it really was necessary or not. I submit that if it was known for definite what the alternatives were and nuking was the best of a bad option, then there would probably be near universal support for it.

I know you don't agree, but try to put yourself in the horseshoes of an average citizen of Equestria who up until then, lived in a more upbeat and positive life and conflict/strife is a rarity.

I am, starting from the perspective of someone who lives in one of the most peaceful times humanity has ever known. Where in the western world war is something you hear about on TV, and fought halfway around the world out of sight, making almost no difference on a day to day basis. The only thing likely to be more peaceful and naive is a utopia. Equestria hardly strikes me as one, given some of the seedier parts to it.

Bear in mind that Celestia and Luna are practically worshipped and adored. It would be pretty easy to demonstrate it was for their protection as well. If they said "we hated doing this but we really had no choice", then pretty much everyone will eat it up, even if they hate it as well.

Loved it! Can't wait for more

6886353 hopefully no one saw the comment I just deleted... but yeah... whats not to love?

Celestia's fear is sort of understandable. But I counter her logic with this, which is the worse monster, the one who displays world changing power in order to protect the weak and save lives, or the one who stands by and does nothing because they're afraid of how everyone will see them afterwords?
When you have power, not using it when it's needed can be almost as bad as abusing it outright.

Damned good chapter. Very curious as to the side effects of Stars new equipment.

6886303
noun mon·ster \ˈmän(t)-stər\
Full Definition of monster
1 : an animal or plant of abnormal form or structure b : one who deviates from normal or acceptable behavior or character
2 : a threatening force
3 : an animal of strange or terrifying shape b : one unusually large for its kind
4 : something monstrous; especially : a person of unnatural or extreme ugliness, deformity, wickedness, or cruelty
5 : one that is highly successful

The point I was trying to make with the chapter was that the catalyst that began Luna down the dark road to Nightmare Moon, (in my story's lore anyway) was because Celestia couldn't bring herself to destroy so many when Goldwing died. Luna bore the burden of doing what she felt was necessary and pony kind only saw her as a Goddess at that point.

War or not. In Celestia's personal view it's a wicked thing to do and she would prefer diplomacy. She's been dealing with the griffons for a thousand years while Luna was on the moon. Cobbling together treaties and forging peace. The pact between Aspects was an important part of Equestrian peace and now all of the world's aspects are free to use their powers at full force.

As for the citizens worshiping them for their act, yes, that's one of the elements this story arc has been hinting at with the ponies and griffons starting to wear the blue/white robes. To some, it will now go from respect to outright religion. When the news of what happened here reaches the cities (Remember that Featherweight and Scoots are taking pics as well), there will be a mixture of reactions. Hardily any pony will condemn the sisters. But it puts them into a place where there's little chance of the sisters just being friends with anyone. Alienated by their powers.

As for Starstep's final comment, he now understood why Nightmare called Luna a monster. It's not the use of her power. It's that he's beginning to suspect Luna planned some of this. And it doesn't bother him at all that he was probably used by her. There are subtle hints here and there through the arc, but it may have been my fault if they weren't as noticeable as I'd hoped.

Still, I respect your views and don't mind conversations about the finer points of the story. Sometimes what I put on paper doesn't translate how I'd hoped.

6886446
Next chapter will explain a little better part of the reason she was reluctant.
On the one hoof, she dislikes killing. The outcasts were retreating, she figured something could be done afterwords. She has been dealing with the griffons while Luna was on the moon for a thousand years. So, she does have some history in dealing with them.
On the other hoof, almost all of the Aspects made a pact to not use god-like level powers like that. Sort of a cold-war pact. They've pretty much rendered that pact moot. I imagine the Red-Empress is rather pleased about that.
I'm not saying Celestia's view is right or wrong. She's just more reluctant to preform that final act of killing if there are other options.

Oh god I love how dark this chapter got. I do hope the whole thing doesn't stay that way though.

6886027 I think that what Celestia thought was monstrous was the way Luna was killing the griffins. Slowly crushing them under the gravity of the moon, causing them endless amounts of pain to soon begin to pop from the pressure and most likely not stop until there was nothing left but dirt.

6886561
Nope. A good story should be able to balance comedy and tragedy. We've delved into the darkness for a while now, it's time to lighten things up a bit now that some serious aspects have been resolved. There will be a few bits of dark (ie, Nightmare), but the mood will brighten for a bit.

6886495

It's nice to have a sensible discussion. It's far too rare on the Internet these days where people get threatened over disagreement.

War or not. In Celestia's personal view it's a wicked thing to do and she would prefer diplomacy.

Celestia surely isn't so foolish as to realise you can't be diplomatic with everyone? If I try trying to be diplomatic with a knife wielding maniac in my house, it'll end up with me in a body bag.

When you face an enemy dedicated to your annihilation, you have no choice but to fight. Diplomacy only works when the other side is willing to be diplomatic. If someone is trying to kill you, only a fool would condemn self defence. If Celestia is that idiotic, she doesn't deserve her crown.

Now if Luna basically flat out wanted to kill some guys for the lolz, even if they deserved it, yes it would make her an evil monster. It is possible to do bad things for a good purpose. It's also possible to do good things for bad purposes. That's why anyone sensible looks at all the factors behind actions and decisions.

Without knowing the details, the pact thing does sound like something that yes it may be worth holding back on. One can't really comment, but on the face of things Celestia does sound like she may well have a good reason there.

Remember though: the herd that was attacked was mostly innocent civilians. Not military targets. We're not even talking about conquest, but the thrill of slaughtering helpless and innocent people. These were not soldiers just doing their job and who held no real malice; Celestia would have a much better point there. Instead her tolerance for those evil people who would harm those she is entrusted with protecting is something that deserves to be condemned. Those griffons needed to pay for their actions which were evil and disgusting. Letting them go free to do it again would be insanity. Their fate was probably better than they deserved, with the best case scenario being life imprisonment. There is no defence of their actions like there would possibly be for a regular army abiding by modern warfare customs and just doing their job (even if their masters started the war illegally). Either Equestria got its pound of flesh as justice, or Celestia lets them get away. The latter would amount to acceptance of their actions, which would be a dereliction of duty on her part.

6886572

I didn't get the impression Luna could instantly vaporize them. If she was making it deliberately painful then the view is far more justifiable.

Though I'd personally say they deserved it. Their actions deserve neither sympathy nor mercy, and would get either life imprisonment or a firing squad.

6886616
Don't worry, a fair number survived the flak-stones and such. They were captured and will probably wish they weren't.

Well done. It took me a while to write 25k, but the end result is usually something you can br proud of, even for taking so long. And this is definitely one of those times.

6886744
I could have split it into two but even my editor agreed it flowed better as one big chapter to wrap the story arc up.
I didn't mean for the chapter to take so long to get done. I spent quite a few hours on this beast and life had many unfortunate surprises to toss my way this past year.
But I'm glad you enjoyed the chapter.

6886758

I know what that's like. I like long chapters when I write, and I've posed that question of splitting up my 10k-ish chapters, but they seem to be best the way they are. Anywho, looking forward to (hopefully) more frequent updates.

Absolutely fantastic chapter! Easily one of the best written battles I've read on this site.
Don't take so long to write next time, please.

6886518
I don't blame Celestia for being reluctant. This was one of those moments where there's not really a clear cut good or bad.
It's a murky grey area and those always tend to have the most internal conflict.
I had forgotten exactly what the rules of the pact were, its been a while since I've read about it, the implications there are huge.

Indigo? I didn't know you were capable of necromancy.

It was an excellent and thrilling chapter so I can forgive the physics sins

6887373
Equestrian physics are... weird. I try to use just enough science to give even the slightest bit of realism to the story events, but you know 'magic' tends to fuck stuff up in the name of awesome.

I love it. Just, everything.
I can't help but contemplate where Luna is going with this, and whether or not this will impact the Dream Aspect... Good to see a good ol' showing of godly might as well.

So, same time next year?

This was well worth the wait.

Holy horse words batman!

Commence read.

Lots of interesting things! Glad to see the story progressing!!

Solstice was neat addition. Have to see what Spacey ends up being/doing in/to the future

Step-dad Star. Ha.

The non-communication of the large Stalliongrad ponies reminded me of "strong men" speak of Eyeshield 21.

A wild ride. Princess combo attack. Wondering what other effects that may have had, or other set ups they might have been able to use.

Celestia and Luna use Eclipse Cannon. Its Super Effective.

Would the Gryphons even try and attack if it was demonstrated that heavy flour/air or even flour/water weapons could clear entire armies from the skies? Pinkies nonlethal sabotage abilities alone are terryfying when she is available.

Next comes the rest, recovery and recriminations?

And the creation of the Marelington Memorial outside Trottingham?

Wow, that was one wild ride. From the urgency and uncertainty of the beginning to the climactic resolution. I loved it all.

Reading through some of the comments, I am not sure if I agree that Celestia would never do something like that. It may have been on the list of the hardest decisions she's ever had to make, but not out of the relm of possibility.

Harry Truman had to make a similar decision when he unleashed the power of the atom bombs on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of people to preserve the life of his people. I don't fault them one bit for making that difficult decision together, especially against an enemy that would not have shown them mercy if their roles had been.

Fantastic work as always, Indigo.

6888199
Yeah, it wasn't that Celestia never would, as she did when she realized not doing it in the past put a terrible burden on her sister, it's just that I always assumed her personality was more of one that wanted to find diplomatic means to fight them. Even alliances with other empires or races would be her preferred method.

Glad to see this update!

This chapter was pretty solid, a bit of deus ex machina aside, and it was a decent battle scene. One thing worth noting, you might want to look over Luna's dialogue a bit, as the archaic 'old english' you're imitating isn't quite correct in a few cases.
Wikipedia has a great page on Early Modern English and how to use it with proper conjugation.

I was a fun read, though I guess it begs the question of why Luna and Celestia didn't just use that epic magic from the get go, instead of letting so many of their ponies suffer and die.
EDIT: I totally forgot what the pact was. This makes sense now. Carry on!

I'm super excited to read what's next. Keep it up!

Need more!
i.imgur.com/yDqS2VK.jpg

So Starstep used personal knowledge of Luna's fall that nopony should know - even Luna's sister was in the dark - much less a pony a thousand years removed from the events, to sway Celestia. Now there has to be some serious inquiries into Starstep (though likely in private). Nightmare can't hide very well from things like that.

Also, I hope Star approaches Celestia and tries to comfort her with knowing that, though this was far a good ending to the situation, that it was by far better than every other option. Some reassurance will go a long way.

And finally...

I really, REALLY, REALLY wish Light would have been able to go meet Spacey! Can you imagine?!

"So... You don't get out much, do you?"
"I'm out all the time, though I understand what you mean. Why?" *smirk*
"Yeah, well, a lovely mare like yourself? How about you let me treat you to dinner sometime?"

And thus, Lighthoof ascended to Aspect-hood.

6889140
Yeah, there's going to be some questions from some ponies about how Star knew that, and some ponies who know already.

Celestia doesn't really need comfort, but knowing that there are still ponies who don't blame her and see her as a pony friend, will go a long way.

Lighthoof and Spacey? Oh, that would implode space and time.

6889233

Yeah, there's going to be some questions from some ponies about how Star knew that, and some ponies who know already

And he can just say how magic orb / Spacey showed him stuff; with careful wording he wouldn't even be lying (except by omission). Which would be immediately backed up by Luna because she granted him a vision of possible futures, she could vouch for what the artifact does and Spacey's existence, and immediately observed Star gaining knowledge he wouldn't have had otherwise (empowering himself).

A pretty good get out of jail free card actually, particularly with his increasing skills to use exact wording and exploit loopholes.

I'm so happy this got updated. It's one of my favorite stories.