• Member Since 20th Jan, 2013
  • offline last seen 5 hours ago

ferret


Investigative wordsmith leaving no idea unexplored and no shoe unsniffed.

T
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Once upon a time, the School of Friendship was praised and accredited, after its lessons drove a little filly mad. Imprisoned in Tartarus with only an ancient monstrous centaur to keep her company, Cozy Glow was in the perfect place for Grogar to whisk away so that he could force her to do his bidding.

Twilight Sparkle's friends, bastions of Equestria's highest virtues, left Cozy Glow forgotten and alone, locked in that rusty cage deep underground. Nopony ever attempted to visit her, check up on her, care for her, reform her, or try to find out what was wrong with her.

This is not that story.

Chapters (3)
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Comments ( 75 )

Interesting to see what being locked up in a place like Tartarus could actually do to someone. Nice story, can't wait for the next chapter.

9768402
Oh that doesn't even scrape the surface of what prisons like that can do to people. Should have the next chapter ready soon.

9768506
you tagged this story death
tell me who, exactly, dies

Axz

Oh I'm liking this.

Also that article was rather depressing after reading it

9768506
Exactly
I feel like people who wrote that season and made Cozy go to Tartarus somehow dodged a bullet when in next she was freed

Like what were they thinking, what message they wanted to give to kids and the rest ?
Start sending children to a prison for the rest of their lives?
What's next, concentration camps?

9769242

I feel like people who wrote that season and made Cozy go to Tartarus somehow dodged a bullet when in next she was freed

...Being freed was the reason she was sent to Tartarus. The writers only sent her there to break her out the next episode.

9768652
ur mom

9769227
Yeah, I'm a big advocate of transparency and oversight in prisons, even if it means the prisoners "get away" with less punishment. Also thanks!

9769242
It's not so much that they dodged a bullet, more like they stood up with a gaping chest wound and continued charging on. How long has it been since the S8 premiere, and they don't even know the prisoners are missing?!

9769300
A lot of things about Cozy Glow were only just red herrings for dramatic effect, but oh the fridge horror they've been generating in my head.

9769242
When you put it that way, it sounds like they were going for the old-school version of teaching kids how to behave: giving harsh punishment to bad kids. Though in this case, it’s not nearly as bad, as she’s just getting locked up instead of getting taken away by monsters, eaten by wolves, or getting parts of their body taken off.

9769242
The lesson here is.. If you attempt to murder thousands of ponies (magic gone, pegasi fall from cloudsdale, *SPLAT* and so on) and enslave a whole culture after illegally imprisoning one of the leaders of said country...you get thrown in a dark hole to never see the sun again....SO don't do it!

I mean this is old news by now, but it always bothered me by just how casually they sent Cozy to, for all intents and purposes, hell. This is the kind of fic I've always wanted to see about her.

The way everyone is just so adamantly against Cozy but Starlight seems odd, but in the exact way the show would do it. So in that sense, I think that's perfect characterization. I really wanna see where this is going.

Excellent work! Not the first to assume that Starlight would have the biggest problem with that idiocy, but probably the one where she's the most pissed off.

I wonder what they have in store for Cozy... and if Grogar still has his eye on her. This place should be no more defense against his magic than Tartrus - a lot less, in fact - but he may wish to avoid ponies' notice.

(BTW, one thing which might have warranted mention from Starlight in her call-out is that Cozy already subverted Tartatrus's security - somehow - with her exchange of letters, and as far as I know they never figured that out,

Oh, and the idiocy is even more idiotic than shown here, because if they were feeding Cozy regularly her absence would have been noticed.)

And more great work! I thought of asking about Cozy's bathroom situation last chapter, but i figured some writers just don't like talking about that and prefer to brush over it. But you were just waiting for the right moment, it seemed.

And I admit, I'd overlooked her appearance even though I'd given some thought to that in my fic. But she's definitely the kind of pony who'd care a lot about that - perhaps not quite this much, but I'm not sure what pathology you have in mind for her.

Now, onto the quibbles - mostly absences of things. For starters, I'm pretty sure all the students at the School took all six classes regularly, and Cozy was buttering up the staff as best as she could besides, so she and Rarity should be acquainted a bit beyond "seen her around" levels.

Beyond that, when Starlight guessed at Cozy's age. I thought "shouldn't you have that on file"? Which brings up the entire idea of Cozy's backstory and family - she needed some tale, fabricated or not, to get into the School, and Starlight should certainly have read that back-to-front and checked into it's veracity while the Asylum was under construction. But maybe like the bathroom thing, you're waiting till later to bring it up?

...The premise had my interest.

You now have my attention.

9769328
Kids the previous lesson was .. If you were messing with time, causing chaos and creation of new timelines that are worse then previous ones, causing uncountable amount of death and destruction and previously becoming a pony Stalin of town just because a childhood friend left to study
But remember kids there won't be any consequences as long as you will tell everyone you are very very very very vrey sssssoooooorrrrrryyyyyy
XD

9769327
Some would call getting torn apart by wolves a kinder, quicker death than dying of starvation in solitary confinement. Personally, I think punishment should be goal oriented, so if you condemn someone to "death by wolves" it can only be to reduce the amount of mouths to feed, not vengeance or karmic justice, and if the goal is to keep everyone else from starving, "death by wolves" might not be the best way to go about it. Or for instance making an example of prisoners to scare people straight has more consequences than rewards in the long run, so it's not a good modus operandi.

9769328
Oh you are gonna love chapter 5. :rainbowkiss:

9769358
I saw a few stories that tried approaching the issues with Cozy Glow in Tartarus, but they didn't have that fiery spiciness that I was looking for. Hopefully mine can get into these issues without being too scrappy, but I certainly don't expect to be painting any black and white morality, and I'm kind of f-ed up myself so no promises.

The way everyone is just so adamantly against Cozy but Starlight seems odd,

Eh, I saw a lot of Starlight haters until the show bashed us over the head with her not-evil-good-ponyness. I'm just shocked that the writers didn't give Starlight herself any objections to what happened to Cozy.

9769398

But you were just waiting for the right moment, it seemed.

I'm like a poop ninja!

I'm not sure what pathology you have in mind for her.

Well, it is very dependent on her particular experiences, but it's definitely in the cluster B personality disorders. Somewhere between borderline and antisocial, I'd say. Borderline, disguised as antisocial? I'm honestly mostly just winging it, and asking myself "what would Cozy do?" rather than her particular pathology.

I'm pretty sure all the students at the School took all six classes regularly, and Cozy was buttering up the staff as best as she could besides, so she and Rarity should be acquainted a bit beyond "seen her around" levels.

Yeah... about that. How many times was she seen taking all six classes? Judging by the show, she didn't attend any of them! I was thinking Cozy Glow had uh, fast-tracked herself, and... skipped more of those classes than she'd like anypony to know.

Beyond that, when Starlight guessed at Cozy's age. I thought "shouldn't you have that on file"?

Oh you are gonna love chapter 3.

9769521

You now have my attention.

Thank you! I won't let you down! :pinkiehappy:

9769536
You should probably avoid reading my other story Proportionate Retribution. :twilightblush: Just to warn you.

9769616
I’m not really trying to justify the writers on their imprisoning Cozy Glow, and despite me always hunting for a chance to share headcanons and theories I’m not going to do that in this conversation. I was just responding that the way the commenter phrased their thoughts on the writers reminded me of old-fashioned fairy tales and nursery rhymes that had harsh punishments (not necessarily given by adults) inflicted upon naughty youths. For instance the death by wolves thing is from “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”, where the child lies so much that people stop caring for his words and he gets eaten while calling out for help when an actual wolf arrives.

9769623
Yeah, those old folk tales were harsh. It's funny because even in the dark ages, predation of wolves on humans actually happened very rarely. Mostly they just made off with the humans' livestock! All that big bad wolf stuff was about rare, isolated incidents inflated for purposes of propaganda by butthurt shepherds. Anyway I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing with you. Just offering my thoughts on what you said.

9769616

I'm honestly mostly just winging it, and asking myself "what would Cozy do?" rather than her particular pathology.

Yeah, me too.

I was thinking Cozy Glow had uh, fast-tracked herself, and... skipped more of those classes than she'd like anypony to know.

Skipping school doesn't seem like a way to get into Twilight's good books - but then she doesn't seem to have ever sent Spike, so what do I know?

I like this. Makes sense for the school guidance counselor to want to take personal interest in making sure that even a former student is okay. Starlight is best. Good story!

9769653

Skipping school doesn't seem like a way to get into Twilight's good books

It would sure explain how Cozy Glow learned so little about friendship during her time at the school, though.

Yeah, me too.

Good luck with your effort. I'll be sure to check out your story too, sometime.

9769713
Lies and slander! How could anyone know more about Friendship than it's Empress!

But seriously, it's easy enough to twist and reinterpret even the most harmless of morals. And it's not like the educators were of the highest quality...

9768506

People knew about these horrors as early as 1890, a time period not known for tolerance or enlightenment.

It is troubling that in the modern day, we use a punishment that was frowned upon in the late 19th century.

9769536
It's things like this that really emphasize just how much the "fandom" doesn't really know what it wants.

Complain about characters getting off but when a character gets justifiably punished you find some reason to be upset about them being punished.

9769358
MLP Tartarus is a far cry from "hell", and isn't even as bad as the actual Greek Tartarus it's named after. Solitary confinement is extremely unpleasant (though this isn't even quite solitary), but it's a far cry from "suffer constant unending torture for eternity" that hell actually implies.

Following this. I am intrigued.

This is one of the best stories I've read in a while. So far anyway. It's still rather new, after all. I feel like it was laid on a tad thick with how stupid it was to imprison her in Tarturus. That's literally the only complaint I have though. The characterization is amazing. Really. For a second, i thought that Rarity was acting super ooc, but her reaction afterward totally sold me on her actions. I honestly don't care much for Cozy as a character, but you're take on her character has me very invested. Usually, I don't write comments this long, but you deserve it along with a big thumbs up.

Something tell me that Starlight should check Cozy background, because I smell something happened to her grow up like that... Also it's a good story, this should had been the season 9, not what they put, but I guess if it's the final season they could do nothing...

I for one think the story is more logical.

9769843
I don't think this is just two-faced fandom hypocrisy. Mistakes were definitely made, if we were supposed to sympathize with the good guys rather than Cozy Glow. When someone goes on a rant saying like Cozy killed ponies and had no remorse and delighted in being cruel to others, those are opportunties. The accusers are imagining scenes of Cozy letting ponies die and not giving a rat's ass, or doing completely unnecessary acts of brutal cruelty, and if the show actually had those scenes, not even I could pull her back over the moral event horizon.

That is, assuming the writers are as determined to make Cozy unsympathetic as they are to ship Sugar Belle with Big Macintosh. If they don't care, or want us to sympathize with Cozy in some way, then it's all good.

9769868
Depending on how evil the Christian sect you ask, some claim Hell's just this boring pit of boringness, and all the eternal torment is self-inflicted by the sorrow the lost souls feel for being unworthy of love by their lord and master. Tartarus is really bad whether or not there are worse places to be, so I don't really like to dwell on how ridiculous eternal torment is.

9770055

Thanks! I'll do my best!

9770322

This is one of the best stories I've read in a while.

Oh gosh. Thanks! :twilightblush: I'll try not to let you down.

it was laid on a tad thick with how stupid it was to imprison her in Tarturus

Yeah, maybe I should tone that down a bit. I wanted to emphasize the stupidity, while also making Starlight look like she's going a little bit overboard in her criticism. But I'm not sure how to do that without readers taking it straight.

her reaction afterward totally sold me on her actions

I was going for the impression that she's like a duck: serene on the surface, and paddling like mad underneath. On the other hand, when push comes to shove Rarity can be one of the most steely eyed SOBs on their team, so I don't think it's entirely out of character for her to rip Cozy a new one. Not freaking out about it afterwards, that would be out of character. That was my thinking at least.

9770429

this should had been the season 9, not what they put

Oh gosh. :twilightsheepish: I don't think season 9 is bad, but I would have liked to see a little of this too. If nothing else, having Starlight visiting Cozy in Tartarus and failing to reform her, like how they did with Twilight and Chrysalis in the non-canon comics.

9770655
2010: Princess Luna tries to take over Equestria because ponies decide to do their activities in the day instead of night. And the result, which continues to this day is everyone making headcanons which blame practically everyone else, particularly her sister, for her actions and do their best to redeem her and absolve her of guilt.

Skip forward some years: Starlight Glimmer comes along and does her actions and everyone cries about her, damn near no headcanons and so many just want to rub her face in shit and complain about villains being redeemed too often.

Skip foward a few years more: Cozy Glow is completely unrepentant villain fully knowing of what she's doing and get a justifiable sentence for it and suddenly "BUT SHE'S A KID!!!!" and constant exaggerations of the nature of her punishment to make her seem like she's being screwed.

Yeah. Fandom flip flops.

9770655
Personally, I think Cozy is intelligent enough to know that her scheme would kill many ponies. Even putting aside Cloudsdale and flying pegasi, there are immense numbers of wild animals that are kept under control by ponies with their magic, and the weather and the sun and moon themselves are dependent on magic. Even though she's a filly, she's clearly as intelligent as an adult, and fictional children who have intelligence far beyond what they would in real life are always hard to judge by real life standards.

People in real life get put in solitary for far lesser crimes than what Cozy was attempting to do, and I personally believe she's mature enough to be tried as an adult, so I'm all for her being put in Tartarus. The biggest sticking point is how long she's supposed to be in there, but the show didn't give any indication of that.

As a final addendum, keep in mind that Cozy was fully expecting that her plan would keep Twilight and the others in Tartarus for all of eternity, as well.

9770680
I hope I didn't exaggerate her punishment too much. Honestly I feel like the show punished her even harsher than I did, because at least my version of Tartarus had guards checking on her now and again.

I think the biggest objection people had with Starlight Glimmer's reformation wasn't so much that it was forced, or un-called-for, but that the show writers decided to represent the entire thing in a 2 minute song montage, instead of the S6 premiere. With more time to see her coming around, and see others slowly coming to trust her and sympathize with her, I'd have been championing Starlight as best pony along with everyone else. But instead, we get... Princess Flurry Heart.

9770687
Intelligence and wisdom do not go hand in hand. It's one of the defining characteristics of sociopathy, being unable to consider long term consequences, but that doesn't mean that there have never been any absolutely brilliant sociopaths. As for the weather, I'm a bit leery of trying to apply logic to that, because a week after Black Snootie took over, Equestria should have been a lifeless icy wasteland, according to the rules of our own universe. I don't think the sun is... quite as important to the pony world as it is to ours.

People in real life get put in solitary for far lesser crimes than what Cozy was attempting to do

Yeah, and that sure is a crying shame. Solitary confinement just screws people up and makes them worse...

9770710

I think the biggest objection people had with Starlight Glimmer's reformation wasn't so much that it was forced, or un-called-for, but that the show writers decided to represent the entire thing in a 2 minute song montage

And yet Princess Luna is one of the most popular characters despite her "reformation" being smacked in the face with rainbow laser beam, crying some tears and saying I'm sorry in the span of a couple of minutes.

So I don't buy it.

9770710
Intelligence and wisdom do not go hand in hand, but we only fully judge adults in real life because they have the intelligence to understand their actions sufficiently, unlike children. Cozy clearly does not think like a child like the CMC or their friends, and thus an argument could be made she's effectively an adult and is thus subject to the same punishments.

Also, the NMM moon timeline supports my point more; while we don't know what NMM was doing to keep the world from freezing (though for all we know, the entire planet could be an ice ball other than immediately around her castle), it shows that with much less benevolent leader, the Everfree Forest was allowed to grow out of control, and completely overtook Ponyville in only a few years. Without ponies to control it, the same thing or worse could happen.

9770732
That was the season premiere of the first season of the show, so people are going to excuse pretty much anything, since there's no expectations. And I for one think Princess Celestia should have stayed evil. *cough* I mean Princess Luna *cough*

This story has potential. Lots of it. I look forward to more!

9770816
Thanks! Will try to deliver.:twilightsmile:

9770655
Is not bad, but they are doing what they can for a final season and I could think that what happen in this story could also be good to reform Cozy, after all she looked okay after getting out of Tartarus and is not a good example to put a child in there even if she did what she did

9770680
Starlight Glimmer's "actions" were to kill everyone and everything, and when she saw the barren wasteland that came as a result of her revenge she said, "Well, good, I'm glad!" There's nothing inconsistent in saying that this is the only thing that deserves punishment and everyone else should be let off with a warning so long as there are at least a few survivors.
There are lessons to be learned from Glimmer's story: that when you're hopelessly outnumbered a particularly cunning Pyrrhic victory can allow you to dictate the terms of your surrender, and that demonstrating your willingness and ability to destroy everything will cause others not to punish you, but those aren't really Friendly Show for Kids sort of lessons.

What could possibly go wrong with locking up a clever manipulator amongst other ponies?

9770945
Yeah, exactly. Starlight held the entire world's future hostage and forced Twilight to reform her! Not intentionally, but she sure didn't pass up the chance.

9771012

What do you think she's going to do, manipulate ponies by shouting at them loud enough to be heard all the way in Ponyville?

A very dark redemption and reformation piece. I like this idea, and I wish to see more

We need more stories about Cozy Glow and how stupid it was to send her to pony hell. Specifically more than just a bunch of one-shots. Plus it's nice to see someone actually make an attempt at redeeming her.
Good job.
Also, you should call a pony's "arm" a foreleg, and there are times you alternate between every/any/nobody and every/any/nopony. Be mindful of that.

9771432
Hopefully it will be brewed black enough to your liking.

9771497
I use arm/leg interchangeably, though I try to draw the line at "hand." Yes I will try to be mindful of anypony/anybody conventions, and will check again for any errors in that. Thanks! Oh and so far this is a 6-shot, so it should go on for quite a bit, as long as there's no problem with the loose nut at the end of the wheel.

9771895 9771497
I have seen conformation diagrams that use “arm” or a derivation thereof to describe at least part of an equine forelimb—though the exact anatomical terminology used does seem to depend to some degree on time, place, and discipline. I use “arm” in my own writing for the same reasons ponies might use it: to distinguish a forelimb from a hindlimb.

9772951
will try

9773532
I just use arm in the sense of a boom arm or a record player arm. It's normally their foreleg, since would be difficult but not impossible for a pony to use their hind leg as an arm. Arms lift, legs support. And if it's not lifting or supporting, I just call it whatever and don't care. Long as I'm not getting the anatomy outright wrong, I don't think it's something that bothers most people.

Plus what do you call the part of the foreleg from wrist to elbow? the foreforeleg?

9773978

Plus what do you call the part of the foreleg from wrist to elbow? the foreforeleg?

I always went by the mlp-specific anatomy chart which calls that part the forearm, and the higher section the upper arm, since the whole foreleg is often considered the "arm". That said, the issue rarely comes up for me because it normally doesn't matter what the forelegs or arms are doing so much as what the hooves, pasterns, and fetlocks are doing.
That and even though arm is the anatomically correct word for it, and cartoon ponies DO use their arms like human arms because cartoon anatomy's wacky that way, I personally just use foreleg because it still sounds weird to me.

9774736
The shoulder's actually supposed to be higher than that. Like this. That's one reason Pony Creator ponies look so f-ing weird.

When I want to be all formal about it, I use the Equine anatomy chart. Nobody to my knowledge has made one of those for an MLP pony, but the parallels are pretty obvious. The palm is called the "cannon" the upper arm is called the "forearm" and there is no lower arm because horses don't have articulating shoulders. And the front leg is called the "front leg" so you'd refer to "the forearm of the left front leg" for instance. Or just the "left forearm" since hind legs don't have forearms.

WAIT A MINUTE!!

Are you telling me.... that in this story.... I don't free Cozy Glow?

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