Two and a half years ago, I left my home, family, and friends behind to fight for humanity to save them from Princess Celestia's madness. Despite the hardship, suffering, and loss I have never once waved in my conviction in doing the right thing to prevent the genocide of an entire race. However, I have been captured. Instead of killing me, they kept me prisoner because they need me to use my Element one last time in their hopes of saving Equestria from Humanity's upcoming invasion.
Too bad I have no plans to do that.
This is a NegotationsVerse AU that ask the question of what would happen if Fluttershy got captured by Equestria so they can use her Element as a means to save themselves from humanity?
To see the original canon series, click here: https://www.fimfiction.net/story/301668/negotiations
Please help out at the TV Tropes Page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/TheNegotiationsVerse
i hope the elements backfire if they try make fluttershy activate them and turn all the ponies in the barrier into humans
So. Its a series. Not a oneshot. I think I will wait until the chapter when it all backfires.
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I'm predicting giant explosion, but I like the ironic punishment idea.
Another nice one would be Celestia getting stripped of her alicornhood. Bonus points if it happens publicly.
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the new ruler of the ponies fluttershy the kind and harmonius anyone?
Yep, I expected SunTyrant to try and blame Flutters, her allies and humans for Luna's death. Which was because of the War that she started, because of her plan to convert failed, due to leaving old world to die, due to not telling anyone about it. If Flutters and her allies hooves are soaked in Lunas blood, then Celestia must be drowning in a bottom of an grand ocean of blood and corpses of countless innocent victims dead because of her. Before and after the dimension hop...
And now we wait for the next-button...
Will Humanity still win?
Celestia's fighting a losing battle, she just doesn't know it yet...
10742780 My thoughts exactly.
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of course they will win, what a chance a nation / kingdom has against numbers, technology and dedication when all peoples unite in the face of extinction in the art of war.
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Or spirit of Harmony itself rants about the ponies being monsters and tearing celestia a new
You had my curiosity...
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but now you have my attention.
Hook, Line, and Sinker.
You have reeled me in, let's see what you may come up with...
(But srly good first chapter buddy!)
Hmm, I wonder what'll happen with Pinkie Pie and Rarity. Twilight, Rainbow Dash, and Applejack would probably try to resort to threats or force if they have to, but being Laughter and Generosity, I feel like they are utterly incapable to do anything themselves
So many possibilities, with through magic or time its going to be interesting on how events will now unfold. Though for my two bits, I predict that as each of the ponies Celestia sends in to try and convince Fluttershy to help them, instead have their own conviction challenged. Each bit of the lies and falsehoods they've built around themselves slowly strip away. its going to be another fun ride!
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Fuck turning them into humans, burst them all into flames ala War of the Worlds and let whatever eldritch abomination out there enslave their souls.
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Turning them into humans seems like the best way this war can end.
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or have them loose the very thing they think makes them superier. Magic
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Jokes on them, humans are the eldritch abomination and someone just figured out some clever way to power weapons with pony souls.
In an ironic twist, all of humanity uniting to defeat one who would eliminate their existence has probably caused humanity to grow closer to harmony then they ever would have without this war.
Damn, here I thought Fluttershy wasn't the type of shy mare on having the balls to struck a nerve on anyone or any pony. Point goes for Fluttershy and bonus point for the mentor part of Nightmare Moon becoming a better mentor. As for the soon-to-be former sun goddess & former leader of Equestria, a big whopping flat zero.
I mean while I understand fluttershys hatred of celestia, not supporting a barrier that will protect pony kind from the destruction caused by a human invasion is kind of extreme. Like I can understand this is war and all but a lot of the ponies were a victim of celestia herself. Even fluttershy states that
even fluttershy acknowledges that ponies and etc were victims of celestia because of celestias manipulation. And besides as stated earlier the new barrier would be used for protective purposes instead of invasive ones in the beginning.
And yes you can counter vvhat im saying that celestia wants to expand that barrier later, that even if it was used for protective purposes celestia might just decide to do a war of attrition
But the thing is fluttershy can just tell celestia, every equestrian military/political figures to resign from their goverment positions and become prisoners of human kind and only then will fluttershy will activate the barrier. By getting rid of the head of gov, and the other important figures it will ensure that equestrias war effort becomes crippled to the point that their desire and ability to do a war of attrition would be minimized severely. And besides If celestia does love pony kind then certainly she would do everything to save equestria.
Also forgive me for this religious rant, but I will assume you are talking about the christain god here and uh does fluttershy even know what shes saying. No offense but the old testament god was willing to commit genocide, destruction of entire civilizations, slavery, and even tolerated a bunch of possible children to be mauled by bears because they called a prophet bald. Like she might be worshipping the jesus and to be fair new testament jesus was a lot nicer compared to the old testament god, but still jesus himself is an extension of that old testament god and he never denied that connection. Like if I was celestia I would point out the flaws of fluttershy argument here by pointing out the old testament gods atrocties. Not only that point out that the god fluttershy is worshiping is technically more evil than celestia because while celestia genocides people she only ends there, god in the other hand is willing to send sinful humans(including nonbelievers) to burn in hell for a literal long time until their soul stops existing. Which one is more evil?
And not only that that same christain god literally has the same mindset that celestia has, humans are evil therefore if they remain evil they must be destroyed and or punished and the only way to make them good is to purify and change them into something else(god turns people into angels in heaven, and celestia turns them into new foals) (tho new foals are a way worse fate imo)
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Race traitor! We will have you hung!
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Jezz. Whenever christian religous notions are mentioned people always go on the attack. Why is this?
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I mean its because fluttershys religious comment doesnt really make sense. Like I apologize to the author if i offended him for typing that but I just didnt really agree vvith fluttershys religious comment. (though maybe he made fluttershy that vvay on purpose idk)
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Well that's okay if you don't agree. Religion is in the eye of the worshiper. Obviously Fluttershy doesn't read from the Old Testament.
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Maybe because it's always about how the Christian God is portrayed as so much better than Celestia, when in reality if he DID exist he'd probably see all ponies as abominations that needed to be wiped from existence?
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Huh. You know that actually makes sense. That being said, damn quadrupeds. Gods wrath shall come.
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That's true for most major religions not just Christians, which by this stand point in Negotiations canon have united and killed a false god, and in this story they are not wrong to think that.
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I mean even in the context of the new testament it doesnt make sense. Like it was jesus christ after all that introduced the concept of hell. And the thing is one of fluttershys main criticism with celestia is that celestias willing to convert ponies into new foals through any means nescarry . The thing is though one of the main incentives that christanity uses to convert people is the fear of eternal damnation in hell. So in a nutshell fluttershy criticizes celestia for being an evil bitch that is willing to wage war and genocide to convert people and yet shes willing to believe in a god thats willing to use the threat of eternal torture to convert people into believing in him.
If she thinks celestia is a monster for her coercion why wouldnt she view the same for god? After all with celestia the pains of war and genocide ends in a mortal lifespan but with god the torture is a non stop contitutiation that lasts way way longer than a regular mortal life span.
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Yes. The long standing Sci-Fi/Fantasy plot point. The only way humanity will ever unite, is if we meet another species we can kill for their differences instead.
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This isn't the place to debate the religious.
For you maybe. Not for me.
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As god intended Ba-dum tiss
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fair enough
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That's one way to look at it and its equally true for any intelligent creature not just humans. Heck it true for the MLP canon as well. The ponies are just as guilty in this respect as any human. Differences breeds conflict, which give us the story.
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Difference is the main cause of... ... Uh... Fucking everything. People have been killing themselves forever just because they were, "different."
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Yeah, its as I said, difference breeds conflict.
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https://www.gotquestions.org/Canaanites-extermination.html
No, He never did deny that connection. Yes, He is part of a Holy Trinity that forms one God. But Jesus has never changed; God is always angry with evil, which is why He had to die for it since we could not pay that debt, ever. And no, I don't believe that He would order the destruction of another sapient species.
Not true, not in the way you mean it. Yes, we are to be changed, by repenting of evil. Yes, those who believe will be forever changed, with resurrection bodies that never wear out and with an eternity with a wonderful Creator who loves us beyond measure. But the idea that we will be turned into some kind of human newfoals is ridiculous. Our sins will be stripped away, but we will maintain our characters and personalities, as well (as far as I am aware) our talents.
If you want a Christian perspective on these things, there are plenty of Christian YouTube channels, such as Cross Examined, THE BEAT by Allen Parr, and Testify that discuss these and other issues that you and others have brought up here. In addition, there are plenty of websites, such as Gotquestions.org, that answer these kinds of questions.
Not to mention that, story-wise, Fluttershy has the right to believe in Catholicism. Any author on this site can say what they want about faith; there are Christians, there are atheists, there are believers in other faiths, and there are agnostics (people who are on the fence about faith), all of whom write their own opinions on this issue. Free speech is a two-way street. I have my doubts that Rated Ponystar is a Christian, but he's decided, for whatever reason, to put Fluttershy in as a Catholic, as is his right as a fan fiction author.
Oh. This series.
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While I respect your view points, and agree with them. I'll say it again.
It's better for your health if you don't.
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Ok so i looked at your source and the first argument is literally god knows that hes right, the human mind is so limited, therefore we cant judge god because humans dont know better. (which is incredibly dangerous logic because its literally saying trust god no matter what and dont listen to your resonable doubts, even when it looks like god is doing something clearly bad) (additionally if we cant tell if god is bad due to our limited minds then how can that same limited mind know god is good either)(and before you say god says so well then how can we tell god is telling the truth and isnt lying when after all you claim we just have limited human minds). Also this is literally why ponies follow celestia because ponies believe celestia is their wise and old ruler who clearly knows better so therefore ponies should listen and obey celestia
The second argument is literally part of celestias justification to get rid of humanity aka to prevent future evils done by humanity, by getting rid of humanity first
the third paragraph is literally justifying infant genocide because the author believes that these children are not innocent at all and would have grown to be evil, therefore killing them was okay. That literal same logic is what celestia uses when saying humans are naturally evil therefore they have to be removed.
VVhile vve dont knovv if he vvould order the complete destruction of another sapient species, We do know he ordered for the destruction of large portions of his favored sapient species ,humanity simply because he considered large portions of that speciesi to have become too irredemable and too evil . For example look at noahs flood and revelations
can humans sin in heaven and if they cant why cant they.
Also the negative aspects or the sinful aspects are part of our characters, by cutting that portion of humanity you are cutting a decent part of a persons character and while the good part still remains
thats the thing only the good part of the character remains but the bad parts that made a person a nuanced person is fully gone.
Also in my argument i stated i considered the christain humans becoming something else to be way less bad than the new foals but i still noticed the parrallel
also from your source this is literally simmilart to celestias logic of let us exterminate humanity because they are clearly going to be a threat in the future.
also yeah the author has the right to make fluttershy a catholic but me as a reader also has the right to respond and criticize to that idea. And like you said freedom of speech is a two way route, and just like he has the right to make fluttershy a catholic character and send whatever message through that i also have the freedom to respond and or criticize such message or opinion
also yeah this place isnt for religious debate so if you vvant to pm chat this then okay
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All getting the barrier back would do is allow Equestria to go back on the offensive at worst, or turn the war into a stalemate at best. Either way just results in the war being drawn out and likely more people would die than if the barrier stayed down and the invasion took place.
Celestia WILL NOT SURRENDER. This is something made blatantly obvious throughout the fics. It took her exhausting herself into a coma to allow Twilight to surrender. And she'd been executing anyone that brought it up before.
Fluttershy is aware of this, so no, she's not going to be willing to help put the barrier back up. And besides, what good would allowing the barrier up after a surrender anyway? The resistance was bad enough in canon, but this would basically cut off all of Equestria from the rest of the world, stewing in their resentment and being radicalized by the hardcore Sunbutt loyalists since the barrier would prevent any attempts to reconcile and forge the actual peace that eventually came in the original fics.
And that's assuming seeing the barrier going back up after a supposed surrender isn't seen as evidence the surrender was fake, and thus the humans blast it back down and just carpet bomb them with nukes rather than risk being fooled again.
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first regarding the vvar of attrition, in the hypotethical that celestia accepts the offer that i proposed fluttershy to make vvhat exactly are the ponies going to do at this point. Their greatest assests that could have threatened humanity are gone (luna, armor dead and in the scenario if celestia and candance surrenders) their great magical abilities have been nullified, and their forces are losing at this point. VVIthout these advantages equestria is best a barely industrial society of colorful horses fighting against nations that are literally in the modern age. Tbh even if the vvar continued vvhat are the equines going to do exactly? Are they going to throvv more pegasi and those pegasi die as badly as spitfire and her unit did. Are they going to throvv slovv ass airships that have the technological level of vvvv1. Its not going to be even a vvar of attrition because a vvar of attrition requires both sides to have equal capibilties but at this point equestria is fucked. So for me even if equestria throvvs forces outside its not gonna even be a vvar because those forces are immeditely going to be destroyed. At best equestria is going to be a blockaded isolated country.
Also in regards to the freedom fighters they formed vvhile yes from the propaganda of the celestia regime they also formed in response to their country beiing occupied and destroyed by foriegn invaders. A non destroyed and more secured equestria is going to have less incentive for radicalization and i vvonder hovv long equines vvould vvant to continue the vvar in the scenario that the goddesses are captured(the fluttershy thing i proposed earlir), any force they send out are immeditely destroyed, and also meanvvhile there exists the fact they can just sit back and do nothing because they are secured in a barrier.
and before you mention military generals and politictions i mentioned in the earlier barrier post that not only do i think fluttershy should have asked for celestia to surrender but she should ask for the entire military and political chain to surrender to humanity and make themselves human prisoners. And by doing this you pretty much get rid of the political and military elite that vvas responsible for the vvar and propaganda effort leaving only ponies from the lovver chain that celestia didnt trust because they might have only pretended to be zealots
Novv for your other claim its Because it looks like celestia has become desperate
Yes they executed previous deserters and surrenders before but theyve reached the point that instead of executing fluttershy, celestia has become desperate to require fluttershys help.
And the vvhole im going to be extreme enough to the point that it requires me to be in a coma to surrender, that incident hasnt happened yet. From the readers perspective vve knovv celestia is vvilling to take things that far but since the incident didnt happen yet during the story fluttershy doesnt knovv the extent that celestias vvilling to go
Though you can point out that yes previous incidents have given fluttershy some perspective but vvouldnt someone be vvilling to do everything to save their country
Hovvever theres another angle and that fluttershy can give the offer so to finally and utterly insult and destroy celestias character. You are absolutely right that fluttershy probably assumes celestia isnt vvilling to surrender but by knovving that celestias not vvilling to surrender,fluttershy can use that to insult celestias character. Celestia built herself up as this godess thats vvilling to do everything for her people. The thing is tho if she clearly vvas such the person she claimed to be then she vvouldnt hestitate to take fluttershy offer. But vve all knovv this version of celestia is a dirty liar. So vvhat better vvay for fluttershy to vvin than to utterly destroy celestias character by offering celestia the choice and knovving celestia vvill pick no, for if celestia picks no then thats just indirectly celestia admitting that all that propaganda she built up for herself is a lie.
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You know when I saw all the dislikes. I was perparing for some creepy racist crap. But...no...I really agree. I mean you even acknowledge that Celestia could use the barrier. Inspite of the good it can do.
And thank you for point out the old testament. Do people not read? Like having a whole species die. Let alone innocents. That exist.
So really the options are ponys go bye bye or humans go bye bye?
No recounciling.
Personally not...suprised that someone wrote a Fluttershy christian stuff. But...?
You went from one god too another without a spit-take. No well. If god exists...why are we being murdered...by magic racist ponies? Or if God does is exist? Are we doing such evils? No?
No...
No critical thought on your part their butter-butt? Uh? Weird...
Further...the narrative of a christian flutters. Could be interesting. But like if God...IS...all knowing...why is this being allowed? Seriously? What narrative is that?
Ironically this happened earlier. Like 25 people disliked a comment. On another fic. That literally was...FINE. So...heres a like. Becauese you did not say anything. Bad or un-true. Nor did you speak magnanmously?
How do you spell that word. Magnimously? You did not speak with arrogant. Just like heres a thing. It exists.
Damn, here I thought this was gonna be a one-shot. Ah, well...
How often will you get those chapters out? And side note: What of Path of the Tyrant/the rest of the planned past Assassinverse?
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I plan on updating once a week if possible. As for the Tyrant stuff I haven't had a chance to sit down and do that. Maybe after Easter
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Alright, let me just call this quickly to an end before this gets too far into a religious debate which wasn't my intention. Yes, I have made Fluttershy a Catholic because I myself am a Catholic and is the faith I know best to represent rather then a faith I do not know that well. If people are curious as to why Fluttershy became a Catholic its due to meeting Dr. Martin, her future husband, and was won over by the teachings of Jesus Christ which she felt a connection to.
As I have written before in previous stories and blogs, ponies did join human faiths, or became atheist, after Equestrians surrendered and it was revealed that Celestia's abandoned their old world which made everyone realize that she and the other alicorns were not gods thus destroying their faith and culture as they knew it. Of the religious beliefs that I have written for the characters, Fluttershy has become a Catholic, Lyra became a Buddhist, Twilight is and always has been an Atheist, and Spike is generally Agnostic. I feel there is nothing wrong with the characters becoming part of human faiths and beliefs. That being said, I'm written the series as best as I can to not make it seem that one faith is correct over the other, mainly because I want readers to come to their own conclusions on that based on what they feel and desire. This AU might break that mold a bit since the religious aspect was touched upon.
Regarding the criticism of Christianity and religion in general and comparing it to what Celestia is doing, people have a right to state that. They have a right to discuss such things or believe such things. I certainly have heard many criticisms about my faith ever since I was a kid. However, I don't want this story to be flood with comments about who is right or wrong regardless of your stance. Which is why I ask such discussions be done in private messages or elsewhere. Not because I am trying to side with one or another, but because I'd rather the comments be about the story itself rather then a religious debate.
As a Catholic myself, I disagree with some of the comments that have been said, but I am not looking to debate or to argue or criticize other people's comments or beliefs. I just don't want things to go out of hand due to personal experience of that happening in other stories I've written. Which is why I respectfully ask that such a discussion be put on hold for the sake of not angering anyone if possible. Once again, I am not trying to put one side or the other, I would be doing this regardless of the situation.
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Your cool a dude! Well said! +40 Respect
I should mention. I just enjoy the comments section. I have not read your story. More so...I enjoy writing and just sharing opinion and feelings. Having fun little convos. I tend really not read much these days.
I tend too not like too comment strictly on the marit of a given story. Since I probably will not read. And that would be wrong. But!
Opinions on other peoples opinions. And the way they frame a dialogue. Or bits of philosophy...worldbuilding...cool!
Cheers!
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Ok, I apologize for any pain I may have caused you in my reply, sir.
And another one to draw me in like a moth to the flame. Good work, sir.
However, the premise made me wonder how mad Discord was going to be when Flutters was captured - and then it appears he's dead
Well, shit. This means two things for the post-war:
Goddammit, Celestia. Hope this ends with even more heartbreak for you and your miserable loyalists.