Special Thanks to Shadowsaint007 and Alphamon_Ouryuken for helping pre-read this chapter
***
Sunset Shimmer.
I never heard of the name before, but apparently, she was so important to Celestia that she was willing to judge all humanity for her death. I know in history that Celestia only ever takes apprentices once every one hundred or so years, rarely ever two simultaneously or so close to each other. Many of them went to do great things for Equestria, while a few others were mediocre at best. One or two were listed to have died from circumstances, but all of them were given a special place in the Royal Gardens as statues when they eventually passed away.
"Why did you never tell anyone about her?" I ask with genuine curiosity.
"Because it was too painful to talk about," Celestia answers with a heavy sigh as I see the sorrow in her eyes. It was similar to the looks mothers have when they find out their children are gone forever. "I've lost ponies I was close to before. It comes with being immortal. My apprentices were always the closest ones to my heart save for Luna, yet none of them were raised by me in infancy like Sunset was. Even Twilight, who I love like my own daughter, was raised by her parents first before I took care of her. Sunset...I raised her when she was a baby."
"I see..." I whisper in understanding for once. I've taken care of baby animals who lost their parents or were abandoned by them. They saw me as their mother despite the fact I didn't look like them. It hurt each time they eventually passed away because I also saw them as my children. "What was she like?"
Celestia answers as a warm and nostalgic smile decorate her lips. "I first met her when she was just a few months old. You know how some unicorns have bursts of uncontrollable magic when they are young? Sunset ended up shining her horn so bright it was like a second sun appeared in Canterlot. When I saw this little filly with such power and kindness in her eyes, I knew I had to be the one to take her in. So I adopted her, much like how I adopted Cadence after her parents died."
For the first time in a long time, I hear the absolute joy in Celestia's tone, and there is a brightness in her eyes. Even her glow seems to be shiner like that of the one I knew before we came to Earth. I have only ever seen her act so proud and caring before, and that is with her family and Twilight.
"At first, I thought about just raising her as an apprentice, but over time I saw her as the daughter I never had. This was before Twilight, of course. All my other apprentices have been mostly students I cared for, but Sunset and Twilight? They were like my own children," Celestia said with a bright smile. "Sunset was just like Twilight in many ways, only she was more of a hands-on approach kind of learner. Rather than study books, she would go out and practice various spells until she got it right. I sometimes found her sleeping while standing up because of her dedication. She wanted to be a powerful mage and a great pony. Her power was so great that I even considered helping her become an alicorn, especially since she had a talent for using magic from the sun just like me."
"Did you trust her with the knowledge of what had happened to the sun?" I ask.
"Actually, she figured it out. I always did underestimate her," Celestia chuckles, much to my surprise. "Don't ask. It would take so long to explain, but she realized something was wrong and told me that she wanted to help. I couldn't say no, so I brought her on board. When I told her of my plan to evacuate to a new dimension, she helped me find a planet we could settle on. One that wasn't too dangerous or was capable of supporting us. Different realities had different laws of physics after all."
I nod as I remember Discord telling me about that. Having traveled to different dimensions of reality himself, Discord said to me that each dimension was always different in various ways—different laws of time, matter, reality, space, existence, and so forth. There were even dimensions even he couldn't travel to because of those laws. Now that I think about it, did Discord know also of what happened to our old world? I never did ask him to travel back to it, nor did I know if he did. If he did...did he know what Celestia did, and if so, why didn't he tell me? Was he worried it would upset me? Or was it because our world was gone that he couldn't go back?
"Eventually, Sunset and I found a world that was capable of supporting life for us. This one," Celestia sighs as she begins to get darker in her tone. "Originally, I had sent royal guards to scout out these worlds we found, but Sunset wanted this one herself." She started to openly shed tears. "To this day, I will never forgive myself for letting her go on her own."
"What happened?" I ask, dreading the answer.
"She went somewhere in Africa and traveled around, trying to get a feel of the place...we lost contact shortly after but then...when I saw her in the mirror..." Celestia growls and stomps so hard on the ground that the entire stone floor cracked. It starts to get hotter as I can see her once-glorious mane slowly begin to turn from its once-grand rainbow appearance to a sea of flames. "I saw her...dead...no worse than dead...a tribe of savages was eating her...my daughter...my Sunset...was food for these monsters!"
In an instant, I felt a wave of energy as powerful as the sun blazing in my face. Flames erupted from Celestia's body as her eyes turned black and red. "I WILL NEVER FORGIVE THEM! NEVER! I HAD TO WATCH HER DIE BEFORE MY VERY EYES, AND I CURSE THEM ALL!"
I soon found it hard to breathe from the intensity of her rage before it finally subsided. I took a long deep breath before reaching out for the wine and gulping it down to cool myself. There are significant scorch marks all over the prison, especially under Celestia, who is taking deep breaths to calm down. Once I have my fill, and I could speak again, I ask, "So that's what all this is? Revenge? You've tried to destroy an entire species for the actions of a few who probably didn't know she was sentient? This entire thing? The war, the conversion bureaus, all the suffering, and numerous deaths...all of it was because of revenge?"
"Not all of it," Celestia mutters, levitating the bottle from my hooves and into her own. After seeing it was empty, she tossed it away and summoned another to drink from. "Believe me, after what happened to Sunset, I wanted to stay as far away from this world as possible, but there was no other option. Every other world was too dangerous. This, of all places, was the best I could find. The very same world that my first daughter figure died on."
"...How did you explain her death?" I ask.
"Magical accident. I made it a closed casket funeral since...well...her entire body was torn apart and eaten," Celestia answered with bitterness in her tone. "It took me years to even move on from her death. Twilight helped me so much since I saw so much of Sunset inside of her. At first, I thought she was just a replacement to help me heal, but over time I saw her as a second daughter and grew to love her just as much, only this time, I was determined to keep her ignorant of everything, so she didn't suffer the same fate as Sunset." I checked the orb and saw that it was still green. "I felt guilty that I was using her over and over again. First to save my sister, then help Equestria, and finally manipulate things so that she and you girls could transport us here. Believe it or not, Fluttershy, but I never wanted my ponies to suffer. Especially you six, who I owe so much. But I guess all our plans can't work out as they hope."
"Why then? Why not later?" I ask, shaking my head. "You still had time to find another solution."
"I thought about it, but after Tirek nearly killed you all, I decided there was no more time to waste. I couldn't risk losing any of you. So not long after you returned from that village out west, I decided to enact the plan." Celestia just shook her head. "The Elements are useless if any one of you was to die. Granted, the next wielders would be chosen once that happened, but I didn't know how long it would take, and I wasn't going to lead anything to chance. So I decided to do it. I-"
"Manipulated Twilight into discovering the theory which led to us using it, combined with the Elements, to take Equestria and the Crystal Empire to Earth," I finished speaking for her while glaring. "All while leaving everyone else to die."
"Yes," Celestia answers while shaking her head with regret on her face. "I am responsible for the end of all life in our world. This I will not deny. I wish there was another way, but I will do anything for my ponies, as I said before. Even if it means dirtying my soul and becoming a monster."
Shaking my head, I just sit down and try to think of what else to ask. There had to be more to this entire story. "Was converting humanity to ponies always your plan?"
"Yes, but the barrier wasn't. Originally, I wanted to just have Equestria isolate ourselves until World War III happened, and they all killed themselves. Whatever survivors existed, we could have converted and healed this planet so we could live on it. The barrier I saw as a means to force them to convert without more destruction, but I guess I underestimated their stubbornness," Celestia answers while sitting down across from me. She takes a few sips of wine before continuing. "I will not deny that my judgment of humanity was partially based-" The orb started turning red much to her grumbling- "- majorly based on what happened to Sunset." It went green again. "But after observing humanity for many years, I came to the conclusion that coexistence was impossible with them. So I sought to convert them into us. That by turning them into ponies, peaceful and harmonious, they would be able to rid themselves of their evil and become true creatures of light."
She glared downward as I raised my eyebrow. "I saw their wars. The methods they used to kill and hurt each other. Even the innocent were butchered, gassed, enslaved, raped, or robbed of everything for such reasons as religion, race, gender, or nation, even though they were all the same people. Their technology did nothing but ruin the environment they were in nor matter how much they claimed to be "progressive." There was plastic in the water. Trees are cut down by the millions. The air is so filled with smog that you choke on it. Not to mention their cultures and beliefs are either barbaric or outright corrupt. Capitalism. Communism. Nazisim. Nationalism. Socialism. Democracy. Christianity. Islam. Right-wing. Left-wing. All the followers of these beliefs claimed they were in the right, yet all they did was lead to more destruction and suffering. None of these humans cared! Instead of caring for each other, they just care about themselves and focus on making more power, wealth, and comfort so they can be fat and happy on the back of the unfortunate while letting anyone who disagrees with them be slandered, shamed, or killed! And even if they overthrow these people, they just repeat the same mistakes over and over again?! What few good people they had were assassinated or executed by those who feared them!"
"I knew that if Equestria was to come to this land, they would seek our resources, land, and maybe even our magic. They take what they want, and they care less who they hurt or kill doing it. We would be at war with them eventually just to defend ourselves or find ourselves in a proxy war with one of the other super-powered nations to influence us like they have done so in the past to the lesser nations," Celestia continued pacing back and forth. "Not to mention that I couldn't risk my subjects falling prey to their sick and twisted beliefs. How soon until fillies and colts wanted to focus on getting the latest technology or entertainment filled with nothing but violence and sex that would corrupt them into delinquent youths? Or what if they started following humanity's religions and disapproved of things in Equestria because we don't follow some made-up god's laws? What if business ponies became more greedy after seeing how powerful and influential the corporations are in certain countries? What if I had to face worker revolutions because they read a book some nutpot made in the 19th century? How long until friendship and harmony are replaced with materialism and selfishness?"
"I've learned the truth about these humans," Celestia looked up and snarled. "Mankind is only just capable of destruction. They never learn. They never learned from the first two world wars or the Cold War. They never learned when they built the nukes. They never learned in all the revolutions, collapses, genocides, and more. They keep making the same mistake over and over again with different weapons, excuses, and methods. They are a wheel of utter hate, greed, and selfishness that never ends. When that wheel breaks, they'll all be dead by their own hands, and it will be no less than they deserve because they failed to be a decent group of people! They failed their home planet and their own societies because they are nothing but children who want more and more. Humanity is doomed, Fluttershy. Even if they defeat us, they will die by their own hands. I gave them the only hope they had to save themselves."
Her eyes started to glow white again. "They could have become like us! We who achieved total peace and harmony! We who stood against the darker natures of the past and built a better future! We were the greatest civilization in all of our world before it ended! They could have been part of this better future I had planned for us all, but even that wasn't enough, and now they come to slaughter us all because they couldn't accept the gift that I gave them! The better path! And you and all the other traitors are to blame for this!"
She took a deep breath and lowered her head. "Please, Fluttershy. You have to know that I'm right. You are smarter than you look. You've seen what they can do. Why can't you just accept that I am right?!
"Because you're wrong," I say with disgust in my tone. "You claim everything you have done is for the greater good, but all I see is a selfish mare who tried to play god. And you don't think humans have ever done that? Whatever tyranny they've done, they've convinced themselves it was for the greater good. That whatever sins they commit will all be worth it in the end. Sounds familiar? If you say the means the humans used corrupted the ends, then what about your actions? And if you say you know better, the war proved there were a ton of blind spots in your judgment. You didn't foresee the humans breaking the barrier down, disrupting the use of magic, killing alicorns, or retaliating with nuclear weapons. Who's to say what else you've blindly missed? How about the ponies who disagreed with you, rebelled, and join the other side? What about all the other races in Equestria that you tricked everyone into blaming humanity for killing when we all know you did it. Did you see that ponies would lose their minds? Their hearts? Lose those closest to them and wonder why their so-called goddess isn't doing anything? You act as if you're completely infallible, but, as I have said before, as someone who claims that they are not a god and that there are no gods, you have the EGO of one."
I close my eyes and shake my head. I have heard enough. I know now what Celestia really is, and while a part of me pities her, I cannot accept what she is saying because she is wrong. I stand up and bravely look at her. "Listen to me, Celestia, because I think it's about time someone told you the real truth. Every race that has ever existed in the history of any reality has always had problems. You think ponies were always great? We never speak about the times before Equestria, save for its founding, and learned how horrible we were to each other. From what I've heard you talk about, it sounded like ponies were the very same thing once that you accuse humanity of being. No doubt we've been to war, raped, and ruined others' homes, as well as our own, because of greed, power, and hate. How many lands did we also take over in the name of Equestria when we finally came together? How many changelings, griffins, minotaurs, diamond dogs, dragons, and more, peaceful and otherwise, were kicked out because they were deemed dangerous or because we wanted their land?" Celestia didn't answer. No doubt it was because of the orb that was glowing around us. "And how many of our own kind have sought to change things because they believe it to be better? Our history books tell us that they were either insane, rebels, or ignorant, but I bet they had many followers until you took care of them, am I right?"
"It was for the good of-"
"It was for your own selfish pride, not for the good of Equestria," I interrupted her with a snarl. "The only ones who have ever made choices for Equestria are those who are in control of it, such as you and Luna. Not the subjects. You never once let Equestria advance itself to the point where it allows the common pony to decide their fate and what direction to go, for good or ill. You always made it so that you were the one who was in charge and was the one who knew best. Maybe even more so than your own sister."
"You dare-"
"You've said you didn't trust the other races because they were greedy, selfish, and because of past wars. Is that not what humans have also done? You claim they care about themselves, but your selfishness has hurt others just like them. For all the zealotry you hate about human faith, you've made ponies so religiously devoted to you and Equestria they would rather end their own lives than live in a world where you do not exist."
Celestia went stoic as she snarled at me, but I don't care if she blasts my face off. "And there have always been bad ponies in history. Sombra was a pony until he rose to become a dictator. There was our version of Jack the Ripper two hundred years ago in Canterlot. Your own sister nearly created an eternal night which would have killed us all if it happened."
"My sister-"
"And let's talk about you giving the 'light of friendship' to the humans. Why didn't you do that with the griffins? Or the dragons? Why not try to turn these enemies into allies or friends? Because friendship is about getting others to forgive you and to forgive them. To learn about each other and accept each other's differences. To find harmony despite being so diverse and different. What you keep talking about isn't friendship. It's order. Order in which you control everything, rule everything and decide everything like a tyrant because you think you are the only one who knows best. We could have helped humanity learn better, be better creatures. Instead, you decided to wipe them out because of the actions of a few instead of a majority. Most humans want to live in peace and just go about their day without fear of anything. It's true, they make mistakes, elect the wrong people, or listen to the wrong person, but that's what life is about. It's about learning from your mistakes, and the life of any civilization or race takes a long time to learn."
"I know that they have done horrible things. Things that I wish I never learned were possible. But for every horrible thing I see, I also see hope. I see children who want to make the world a better place. Adults who fight to give their children a future where they do not starve or go cold. Humans out there work as hard as they can to end war, suffering, and greed. And elders who give their knowledge to the next generation so that they can make better choices in the future. And they have. They've improved so much since their ancient days. Yes, there are new problems here and there, but they also fixed old ones."
I then think about something Discord told me once about all the races he's seen since he existed. Those who have come and those who are gone. He's lived far longer than anyone thought possible and knows how various races rise and fall in time. "A good friend once told me that a race is like the lifespan of a single being. It starts in infancy, becomes a child, grows up before reaching its final stages, and ends with either a glorious final breath or a whimper. Discord had seen the various races of our world start and end, including ours, and do you know what he told me?" He pointed at Celestia. "He told me that ponies were still just children. We never grew up compared to the other races. We lived in a fantasy setting and refused to move on from it because someone didn't want things to change and tried to deny our potential because they were afraid of pain and suffering. Two things that you need to learn so you can grow up as an adult."
"And humanity wasn't a child?" Celestia growls in disgust.
"And Equestria isn't? No, humans were like children, but you then changed everything," I point out. "You forced them to realize that their past grudges and petty arguments were worthless in the face of outright annihilation. They pushed aside everything and came together for the greater good of their people. They finally saw themselves as humans and not the various tags they've given each other. They finally wised up because of you. You made them grow up, and that's why they are winning." I sigh in sorrow as I think about how we've evolved since Equestria was founded. "We could have grown up too. I don't know if you're to blame, the council you talked about, Starswirl, or all of the above. But even though Equestria was united, we didn't grow up. No, we refused too, and part of it is on you, but also on us for allowing it to get this far. We're so scared of things changing that we just refuse to let anyone change out of fear. Not just us or humans, but the other races as well back home. As one human I know has commented on it, it was a sugar bowl world, but all sugar rots eventually, or the bowl breaks from decay. What we had wasn't going to last forever, and someday we would have fallen apart, or someone bigger than us would have taken over."
"No, that's not true!" Celestia desperately says with determination. "Equestria will always survive! It will always be pure and true! I will never let it become anything less!"
"And that's the problem, Celestia," I say with a shake of my head. "You. You. You. I realize what you are now. You are not a demon. Or a monster. You are a broken child who was forced into power at a young age and never grew up. You are afraid of losing this power because, deep down, you are nothing without it. You've made your entire life all about being the ruler of Equestria to compensate for your losses. While I think there is a part of you that cares, loves, and is kind, there is also a large part of you that is selfish, paranoid, and hateful. In the end, you're just a brat. Nothing more and nothing less."
There is a long silence between the two of us. Celestia stares at me with wide eyes, and I just stare back at her with nothing but content that I've said all I needed to say. I figure there is no going back at this point, and she'll either just kill me right here and now or make it a public execution. Yet deep down, I am smiling because I won. I rejected them all and kept to my principles.
Celestia sighed and dismissed the orb. "It seems I really do have no choice but to do this." I tilt my head in confusion as her horn glows and chains appear on my limbs. "Come. It's time to see what your stubbornness has cost you."
Is she going to try dragging her to face the public or to do the spell? Whats stopping her from telling Twilight again? Knowing this wench she'd use a silence spell and say "She will only speak heresy and lies" the f-ing b
if the chapter means mind control then here's one thing the elements are good for removing it or if it is a threat by hostage no matter how hard she try it will end her subjects broken and split apart by beliefs of she is right and the other she is wrong.
She’s gonna show Fluttershy an Equestria suffering from famine and maybe even raids by Human SF. Only response by Fluttershy should be “That’s cute”.
Would be cool if an SF group was observing Fluttershy this whole time and kept her there instead of rescuing her to find out Celestia’s true motives and her plans.
Really Celestia? You'd lump Christianity together with Nazi religion?
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Epic
I’m glad you’ve gone in this direction with Celestia, I feel it’s very underutilized. Maybe it’s not fair to blame her for ponies stagnation, but she certainly didn’t help it. While she’s a monster… she’s no more a monster then any other child given so much power at a young age. She’s terrified because she’s about to have everything taken away, she might actually fear losing her control over Pony kind more then her own death! Which just makes me pity her more… she’s done it so long… she can’t imagine doing anything else… not even being dead. Sure some might argue she was getting ready for Twilight to take over, but she was installing a mare who would follow her lessons and ideals to the letter. Instead of letting her rule as she saw fit. Now I’m willing to bet she’s going to drag Fluttershy around and make her stare at all the devastation “she’s causing”. Which won’t work, but she likely doesn’t know what else to do. She also admitted she wasn’t looking to make peace, she’s just hoping the Elements will be some kinda cure all to her problem. Which considering their past over reliance on, isn’t surprising, but still futile.
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Celestia and her ponies haven’t every experienced anything like this before, they have no frame of reference. Meanwhile Fluttershy has seen everything, and knows it could and will get much worse. I thinking your both right though, she’s going to drag the poor mare around hoping she will turn over to her side cause “look at what those big dumb humans is doing to us!”. Out of all the ponies Fluttershy has faced in this story she’s the one who has matured the most. She’s outgrown her friends and Celestia, seeing them as foals playing at soldiers and leaders. Honestly I think that’s probably hurting her the most out of everything, realizing how dangerous that childish “naivety” is.
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Your surprised? She’s never had to argue her point of view before, usually she tells ponies to do something and they do it! Now she’s losing the argument against a pegasus with “questionable” employment history (seriously what was Fluttershys job before CB?). Celestias arguments like those of her most loyal ponies are emotional and childish, that can be easily picked apart by a more mature individual. They can’t handle it.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
And more problems we see from Christianity today including priests molesting and touching little boys. It is not immune.
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Pedophiles in Church are direct opposition of things, that Christianity stand for, not to adding, that such peoples seek all places and positions, where they can do their evil easier.
Crusades are really really complicated topic and peoples forget, that these were Arabs and Turks, that were invading and oppressing as first ones.
Halberd Wings.... Enough said...
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Sergeant Brad 'Iceman' Colbert: Theologically speaking, Trombley, the world's been going downhill ever since man first offered entrails to the gods.
Lance Corporal Harold James Trombley: What's that mean? Entrails?
Corporal Josh Ray Person: That religion is gay.
Look back far enough and practically every major and minor religion has had a pogrom or major round of bloodletting, either internally or against some other culture/religion. The Nazis just did it on an industrial scale compared to the Aztecs or the various Crusades/Jihads of past ages.
Three options: Celestia is going to turn Fluttershy's human boyfriend into a new foal, Celestia is going to show Fluttershy what happened to her family or three... Celestia is going to utilize a mental compulsion to force Fluttershy to use her element...
Only for it to not work.
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Pretty sure both sides are still somewhat defendable. For the Crusades that was during the debatably lowest point in history After Rome fell due partially to invasions from the people they Crusaded. That was kinda karmatic. You helped topple the greatest civilization at the time and teach your kids to be like you, then the descendants of your victims come back for revenge. They were also lead by Popes who were more politician than priest. For the Nazis you have to remember they got basically robbed by France and England after WW1. They then tried to make things better but actually made things worse with inflation. Then they got back on their feet and ripped the people who deliberately fucked them over so that they’d have no competition a new asshole. Everyone remembers WW2 as the Allies defeating the evil Nazis because of what they did to the Jews. The Allies didn’t care about the Jews being kicked out, that’s why they never helped them. They also didn’t find out about the full in genocide part until twords the end of the war, after then Nazis and their leaders were suffering from Meth Psychosis (look it up). The story of the Nazis is one of a country being unfairly ruined by others because of greed. Them trying to make things better in their desperation but actually making things worse, even genocide survivors will tell you post WW1 Germany sucked for everyone. Them blaming eachother for what the rest of the world did or let happen to them. Rising from their ashes and getting revenge, becoming so great they almost conquered the world. Then being defeated and everyone pretending they were the hero’s who beat the Nazis because of what they did to the Jews when it was actually because they dared get back up on their feet and seek justice for what the world did to them. Both cases were of groups of people who had things good, got destroyed by outsides and then becoming desperate, turning crazy while recovering from the damage others inflicted on them and then getting revenge.
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Some argue that the Crusades (the Levantine/Israel Crusades) were defensive in nature; pilgrims were being robbed and murdered by Muslims while trying to visit Jerusalem. I do not necessarily hold to this view, nor do the majority necessarily hold to it; I merely point it out.
Furthermore, both murder (which the Crusaders did upon capturing Jerusalem) and any sort of perverse action, such as those of some Catholic priests you've pointed out, directly contradict the Bible. In other words, these actions are and were not fulfillment of Scripture, but perversions, twistings, and disobedience of the very faith that these people claim(ed) to followed.
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She doesn't care. It's all the same to her. At least when it comes to humanity. What a bitch.
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Well said.
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For the molesting part that’s because they accidentally let gays infiltrate them. When a priest touches a little boy, that makes them gay. You can’t help your sexual orientation but religious people believe in ancient nonsense and think that you can. So they raise their kid to believe that being gay is sinful and they need to cure it. Then their kids who develop gay try and cure it without telling anyone their gay, which didn’t work for obvious reasons, and become priests. A man is supposed to be attracted to a female. A man liking a another man is a deviation from that. If someone’s brain makes them deviate from what they’re a supposed to like to something that’s isn’t what they’re supposed to like it’s not much of a stretch to say they might deviate twords something else as well. That’s why LGBTs have a much higher pedo rate. That’s also why churches don’t like gays trying to infiltrate parts of their society. Because last time they accidentally did, not that there was much helping good luck catching gays trying to cure themselves or the ones that were straight up malicious from the start from sneaking in, the Catholic Church became synonymous with pedos. Most straight guys would feel gross if they were wearing something revealing around a child like a speedo. But gays will have pride parades, dress in BDSM gear which is very sexual and then just try to interact with the impressionable young children who’s parents brought them to that parade like it’s not creepy as hell. Even if you ignore all that’s stuff priest are supposed to be celibate by nature so either way it’s really not like the religion itself is at fault for that. It’s that people created a community around it which made the leaders of those communities influencial and therefore powerful. Then bad people decided they wanted to use those positions of people who are close to the children of the community because they’re trusted for their own selfish and degenerate gain.
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History is complicated, that is true but all of religions to me in least are one of few roots of almost all problems that we see today because people do evil things or lesser sins in name of their religion all the time. Gay marriage? BANNED. Why? Because my book says so. You don't believe in my god? Beheading! Why? Because my scroll says so. This list does go on and go on; I think we need to simply be humans and do good things for each other because we want to. It is somewhat fallible when they say they do good things for your god and their fear of going to hell rather than just wanting to be a good person.
That's my take in least- I don't believe in nothing expect that I will find out when I die someday. I'm simply just enjoying my life and I'm just pointing out that no religion is immune to wrong teachings or things that comes out of it.
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To be honest, there is exactly one root of all problems on this world. It's human nature, that can perverse any idea, no matter how noble, for selfish profits. Religion, ideology and everything other is just excuse for this.
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I have to agree with you on that. Pedos, there's definitely something wrong with them and they use LGBT's as a shield. Hell Twitter will protect them. I remember once a guy got banned because he reported a pedo to the site. There even trying to legitimize it over there.
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Discord did the same thing, it is certainly a strange thing.
Discord thing
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There are people called LOLcows on the Internet because they produce laughs like cows produce milk. Some are funny because they’re crazy, some are funny because they’re dumb, some are funny for their own reasons. Not all are fun to watch though. Some are really messed up. There was a guy named Jonathan Yaniv who’s trans (Jessica Yaniv now) who was awful but shielded online. Probably can’t talk about the gross shot he did which anyone who saw what he said online would immediately go “This guys a pedo using excuses to be near kids” but I can tell you about his legal battles. He was trans but didn’t have the surgery at the time and still had a dick. He would sexually harass women all the time. His favorite way to do it was to go to bikini wax places to try and get women to touch his balls. Most people don’t know this but people who do body waxing usually specialize for one gender. They can do one but not the other because it requires a different technique and using the wrong technique could seriously hurt someone. He would go into wax places ran by women, demand they touch his balls because that’s why he was really there and when they said they can’t wax him because he had a dick he would take them to the human rights trabunal in Canada saying they violated his human rights. The argument was he was a “women” and then not giving him a Brazilian was like them saying he’s not an actual women which is illegal in Canada because hurt feelings are a crime there. He put multiple places out of business because women refused to touch his balls and that’s not the best part. Eventually someone actually took him to court, won and he had to pay them money. But cuck hold Canada is cuckhold Canada, so if you wrong someone and legally owe them money, you don’t have to actually pay them. That’s a civil issue, not a criminal one there. So in order to get they money he owes them for destroying their businesses through having the Canadian Humans Rights workers shut them down they would have to spend a ton of money sueing him for the money the court already said he owed them. There’s a lot about him but whenever people tried to talk about him they got censored because he’s Trans. If you want you can look up videos about him on YouTube now. Specially ones that have to do with the KiwiFarms. He’s my personal favorite example of Sites like Twitter protecting degenerates just because they’re part of a protected group of people who are above criticism on their sites.
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Option one? Fluttershy "Go ahead. We both know you'll do it anyway."
Option two? Fluttershy "About time."
Option three? Fluttershy when it falls flat and the other five get turned to stone. "Element of Harmony remember? Great at removing and preventing mind control magic? Doesn't like being abused either. Checkmate bitches."
They just don't understand. Fluttershy doesn't have to do anything to win and there is nothing they can can do to make her do anything.
Fluttershy: Speechcraft 9999+ here.
Now we have to wait what "giant-flaming-ball-of-gas (not tainting the word 'Sun' here)-tyrant-brat" wants show. Could be remaining friends/allies who were caught or just showing the state of things and blaming humanity, or maybe the letting zealot-ponies yell at Flutters. Just have to wait for the next-button...
Ouch.
One thing that comes to mind every time I see this Celestia: Humanity has never had a nigh-immortal nanny tucking it in and thinking for it like humanity is an entire nation of adult children. Honestly, considering how fine tuned Equestria is/was, it wouldn't shock me if it turned out Celestia had the weather factory made to keep droughts and famines away so the ponies never had to have empty bellies, and even ensure ponies acquire cutie marks that make them happy or at least productive. there's no mystery to life.
the more you think about how fine-tuned equestria is and apply the 'celestia is a control freak' element, it becomes downright spooky
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Also, the tree of harmony isn't on this world
So no power
The best they could do was to try to open the portal to their world ,but:
-They already had problems with how magic-consuming, hard, it is to maintain.
-the other world can be already dead
Having just played through Mass Effect, Celestia reminds me so much of the Reapers.
Reapers are machines waging a war of extermination on all organics to stop organics from creating machines that would (supposedly) exterminate them all. Even when Shepard does the supposed impossible and makes peace between a race of organics and their creations, it's ignored because of course the Reapers can never be wrong and the cycle is the only solution.
Celestia wages war on humanity because of their supposed moral decay and unwillingness to live in harmony. Then proceeds to commit atrocities on par with Hitler, and blame the humanity for retaliating after, they put aside their differences and united for a common goal, which is more than she or the ponies can claim.
Both wage war that in the end proves them wrong somewhere along the way, but keep doing that because obviously they can do no wrong.
Waaait is this referring to DAS KAPITAL?
Noice.
I should mention that this generalization talk is bothering me. I'm aware of the concepts you're trying to push but I'm not sure that I agree with the way you flesh them out. I think you're afraid to use concrete specific ideas sometimes due to fear of how they're going to be received. Of course that's not always the case but "they're not perfect and they have grown" means nothing to me in terms of how humanity progresses if you're not referring specifically to what degree and through what means.
For example you could mention how after WWI they League of Nations was formed and after WWII things like the UN replaced it. Or how workers rights have advanced throughout the ages. Or how the original concept of a bill of rights goes as far as ancient Babylonia BC. How the rights of the people advanced and now we have the Magna Charta or the universal human rights. Or how we got rid/are gradually phasing out the death penalty due to its corruption. Or how the world is phasing out monarchies and oligarchies in the modern era. Shit HAS gotten better. If you want Fluttershy to show Celestia that mention THOSE examples and how she has deprived Equinity from that chance by being a strict restrictive mother who emotionally abuses her children. Better yet use that analogy to show Celestia she should have retired already and let Twilight have a go. I mean jeez if she didn't want the throne why not you know... pass it?
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I’m surprised that you mentioned Lolcows but didn’t say anything about Chris-chan, the original Lolcow. In fact, Kiwi Farms was originally a forum, CWCki Forums, which was specifically about him (although other Lolcows occasionally turned up there), and which had a connection to the CWCki which is a wiki documenting Chris’ life. Chris even claims to be trans now, although it’s unclear if he actually has dysphoria or was simply brainwashed into it by a group of insanely manipulative and malicious trolls (the Idea Guys).
It must feel very odd for Celestia to talk with a pony who doesn't worship the ground she walks on. She's very bad at defending her case.
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She has a thousand years of wise rulership under her belt (any mistakes are glossed over) and a culture of listening to authority built around her
She has never needed to explain herself for a probable 5 centuries
Nice verbal smack down, Flutters.
I mean this in the worse way possible Princess Celestia is human. Specifically everything she hates about humanity.
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Well there is a fourth option. Celestia creates another problem, because of her grudge with humanity.
One caveman ~200000 years ago looking at the 5 billion kill assist above his head: what
2 quotes that come to mind after this chapter:
"When faced with the threat of extinction, any, and dare I say EVERY alternative is preferable."
"What good is saving the world when you'll find yourself looking down on it from a mountain of corpses?"
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2 words: Spanish Inquisition.
Also: The Crusades
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Given that no one ever talks about the other races managing their weather it seems likely that the Everfree's "unnatural" unmanaged weather is actually the norm. In fact, more than a few fics have put forth the idea that Equestria's weather control comes at the cost to the rest of the world...which is why everywhere outside of Equestria is a dessert hellhole or otherwise barren wasteland.
Soo... I think the author did a good job basically laying out why each bearer no longer possess/corrupted the trait represented by their element. But I can't figure what Twilight's corruption is.
Pinkie Pie/laughter - She is no longer happy, only pretends to be happy, and cannot make anyone else happy or laugh like she used too.
Rainbow/Loyalty - So blinded by her hate/angry/etc she won't stop Celestia/Twilight/Equestria from betraying themselves and their principles.
Applejack/Honesty - Honesty earns trust, and trust is the cornerstone of friendship. No one trusts her now because she is a spy for the ESS, who gets her neighbors thrown in concentration/re-education camps. She also lies to herself and thus to others out of her bitterness, anger and desire for revenge.
Rarity/Generosity - Rarity is now embittered and cold, only concerned with herself and her own experiences. She wallows in her pity and sorrow, and is not generous at all.
Fluttershy/Kindness - Celestia is an idiot trying to force Fluttershy to use her element. Kindness is CHOSEN, not forced. You cannot force someone to be kind, as the act of forcing them would automatically make that act not one of kindness but one of coercion. Flutter's requires her unadulterated free will to be kind.
Twilight/Magic - This is the one I cannot figure out, and its annoying the heck out of me. Did she corrupt her magic by turning toward human technology?
Will be interesting to see if the elements of harmony fail, break down, or backfire on Celestia and Co turning them all into stone. Though, I have to say I am worried about Spike's attempt to contact the resistance and deliver Fluttershy's message to humanity. Flutterhy's prison might get struck by a long range cruise-missile, killing her in order to deny Celestia access to the elements.
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As appropriate for corrupted friendship Twilight's kind of a mix of all of them. Plus actual brainwashing on Celestia's part to keep her in line.
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remember, when you're trying to look for corruptions of her element, that her element is magic. and friendship is magic.
I would really, really love it if the story ends, one way or another, with whatever Celestia's going to do backfiring, causing her to snap and force Fluttershy to use her Element, only for the Elements to backfire and kill the others.
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I know the first quote but what's the second one from?
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Basically, Rainbow's corruption is Loyalty degraded into Fanaticism.
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I know what you’re talking about. I didn’t mention Chris because we were talking about trans lolcows who are protected online and can’t be criticized. I know Chris has some white knights but you definitely won’t get banned just for shit talking him like you will other trans people. Also, still waiting for Barb to die. She basically treated him like a pet his whole life and a lot of that was lying to him so he’d leave her alone. She has a deal with the bank to where she doesn’t have to make anymore payments and they get the house when she dies. Chris thinks he’s getting the house and gives his mom his disability money for house payments. I think people are already calling it the homeless saga and when he gets “adopted” by someone else thinking they can exploit him for exposure that’s will be the adoption saga. Homeless saga part 2 will be when they realize putting up with Chris wasn’t worth it and kick him out making him homeless again.
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Those were dark times people got paranoid and misunderstood Christianity's meaning.
I don't agree with those times either but these day Christianity is done correctly.
Peacefully
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Can't remember.
So here's what I'm expecting for the next chapter, Celestia is going to take Fluttershy into the streets and show her all the suffering that has happened to the ponies there, but good ol' Fluttershy will pull out the uno reverse card and tell Tia it's a double edged sword. For all the ponies that are here suffering currently, there are millions of humans on the other side of the barrier that are in the same condition. And hopefully if she's in public she will say that suffering on both sides would have never happened in this magnitude if Celestia just tried to negotiate with the humans in the first place. She doomed everyone.
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Very well said
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Fine, here's a more modern one for you.
Conversion therapy.