After Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash announce their engagement, Twilight's parents have a chat behind closed doors.
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Well, in all honesty, you've touched on an issue here. What Twilight Velvet expressed was disgust at her daughter's...decision to marry Rainbow Dash and self-loathing from her feelings. Even if she was consciously willing to show love and acceptance, her heart screamed out that what Twilight Sparkle did was abominable in her eyes.
Makes me wonder how heterosexual people might react to the mental and emotional dissonance if their loved ones would declare that they were in a queer relationship.
About the story itself, it was quite reasonably paced, with a somewhat satisfactory conclusion, though I'm a little on the fence when it came to Twilight Velvet's decision to sweep it all under the rug. In my experience, repressing your emotions and keeping an important secret like this is unhealthy, though I must admit that I have very little social experience to speak of.
All in all, it's a realistic story, with flawed characters that drives the story and no clear answer for the problem posed by the characters themselves. Decent.
Its definily a good story with a more realistiv spin on the whole issue from the perspektive of the Parents.
For the whole thing it is good that there is no real conclusion Rwilight velvet feels real in her personality as a mother with doubt in her hearth but repressed it for the happyness of her daughter
Hmm... interesting prespective. I can see how in some families this would be the attitude
7382637
No choice but to sweep it under the rug. If you talk something like THIS out with the person, you're going to lose them.
There are too many whos. This ain't Whoville.
This is a surprisingly good story. But then, that title and description made me think it was a gay-bashing minific, so, you know, low bar.
Still, even without those subverted expectations, it's a really strong piece of work. You don't often see heart-mind dissonance explored too deeply, and it was done very well here.
I don't know how it is with ponies, but with humans at least homosexuality is natural, it exists in about 10% (roughly) of the population. This number has pretty much held steady throughout history, meaning that it actively contributes to survival of the race. Another fun fact, the same gene that allows for gay men also allows for fertile women.
Too many stories like this descend into pontificating and hitting the reader over the head with a 2x4 labeled "The Message." This one avoids all those pitfalls and portrays this sort of conflict in a sensitive and believable manner. Sure, there are people who react far more strongly in this sort of situation, but having a more nuanced response makes for a better story.
7382637
I'm a straight guy and my mother is gay, so I think its less about being hetero and accepting someone and more about thinking you know and understand someone and having those expectations subverted by reality. Once you realize that the gender preferences of your loved ones don't matter and they are still the same people you've always known, then you can more easily accept who they are and help them accept themselves as well.
As to the story, Night Light here is being a putz and not standing up for his own feelings despite being told that he needs to accept Twilight Velvet's feelings. It is a two way street, Twilight.
You know what, I think am gona qoute my Mom in this.
7383128
Funny story, actually. My unwitting mentor once revealed to me that her mother was gay in a Steam chat. The problem was, her mother was raised as a Catholic in a conservative household which, in true dickhead fashion, taught her to hate gays and not express her feelings for other women.
The thing is, she (My mentor's mother) eventually grew up to domestically and psychologically abuse my mentor for her entire childhood, which would contribute to my mentor's suicidal tendencies and deep-rooted psychological issues, as well as her strong dislike of Christianity itself and eventual apostasy.
Last I heard, her mother still engages in heterosexual intercourse with her husband, and my mentor has severed all ties with her parents.
Yes. Now that I think about it, that was a more appropriate...phrasing of the idea I was trying to convey. Thank you for that, I suppose.
Now, for why I wanted to reply to you.
I've read that sentence over and over again and, somehow, I still do not know how Night Light would be seen as an idiot when he was trying to comfort his wife from my perspective. Keep in mind, though, that I was raised...slightly differently from most other users here in a radically different culture, so what may be clear to you might take a lot of explaining and context for me.
7383067
Homosexuality is closer to 2-4% than 10%, and I'd like to see these studies of how common homosexuality was in distant history.
7383180 Unfortunately I don't have said studies on me, but it does make sense.
7383177
I'm on a phone at work, so I may need to wait till I get home to properly reply but the gist of it is I him (honestly rather poorly) trying to express his own feelings in relation to her feelings and being rudely shot down by his wife. I'll have to get home tonight to find the relevant passage. Its always possible I took things a bit out of context as well.
"No wonder you're called Night Light. You're not very bright."
Damn, I've never heard a roast that brutal. Like and fav
Actually Twilight Velvet, I (not at all actually) hate to tell you this... But yeah. Yeah, it is natural. As in "yes, animals in the wild sometimes partake in homosexual behavior." (Dolphins, goats, bonobos, just off the top of my head.)
Something I learned when I was at university, reading natural history in my spare time.
To my eternal shame, I once made the same observation as Twilight Velvet once at school at about fifteen to one of the teachers. Though mercifully without at all meaning that it was unacceptable - I think my exact words were "there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not natural, as in it doesn't happen in the natural world" - meaning really that in my ignorance I assumed it was a purely human phenomia. (And not meaning it was perjurative or anything.) I can only hope that no-one else remembers it, and it was a very small school, so likely no-one else did.
My only consolation was that upon learning that is was, my immediate reaction was "well. [Expletive.] Now I just want to go crawl under a rock."
Just goes to show that ignorance can make fools out of even the most enlightened of us at times.
That was a good story. I liked it a lot.
Thanks for writing it.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature
Good
I am glad more people are appropriately tackling the tougher side of these kinds of relationships. Sure, happy stories are all well and good, but relatable stories are even better.
Thanks for this.
7383490
I think, despite your accuracy, you entirely missed what velvet meant, as in, she was talking about how they would get a kid, not the behavior itself.
A MLP story to feature homophobia? I like it!
Homosexuality is commonly used in MLP fics- yet it rarely comes with the add-on of homophobic reactions. That's not to say I approve of homophobia, but what can I say I'm a whore for a good bit of drama, and it makes for some good reading!
Using homophobia as story element gives the story an opportunity for really interesting character development and conflict (and what is a story without conflict, after all).
Decent read, keep up the good work
7384285
Not to say the way it's used here is that. In fact, I thought it was a very interesting take. It actually speaks to me very personally, I'm bisexual but still get uncomfortable when I see same-sex couples doing PDAs. Doesn't matter what you feel in your heart, when you're told for most of your life that something is wrong, there's a part of you that still sees it that way, no matter how much you wish that weren't the case.
I kind of wish that this story did a little bit more than scratch the surface of Velvet's misgivings about her daughter's homosexuality. It doesn't really seem to be for any really good reason beyond "this is the conflict of the story" and she didn't really seem to really present her misgivings in a super compelling way.
That said, props to you for making a character homophobic without making them completely reprehensible. In a fandom that's eggregiously defensive of the LGBT community (a community that, as a pansexual, I'm a part of, whether I like it or not) it's rare to see people attempt tp develop characters whose thought process is more complex than "gays bad, kill gays". I wish you had been a bit more detailed than a few thousand words in regards to their misgivings with Twilight's relationship.
Hmm... what a messy topic! Still a pretty good story, though.
Hmm. I suppose even equestria would have these issues.
Well that story kinda collides heavily with my own headcanon which sees ponies as pretty tolerant beings, they have various sentient species in their world and different pony races all working together (and might form relationships), i would imagine that homophobia would if it even existed be quite rare or even considered as unnatural (oh the irony).
The whole natural or unnatural debate kinda tips me off every time i come across it.
I could discuss that argument when it would be made by someone who lives in harmony with nature, like .. cave people ?.
But it literally disgusts me to hear it from someone who uses any modern societies achievements/technologies, its the pinnacle of hypocrisy just claiming that something is not being natural and then at the same time ignoring that their whole daily routine is completely based on things that are not in the slightest way natural, but when it comes to love or even just sex they are suddenly the self proclaimed fact resistant nature police.
7384141
I think the how they might or might not reproduce would just be the tip of the ice berg here, she even refuses to have a picture of her own daughter with her partner placed in their house, that hints towards a much deeper grudge that she just chooses to repress which will slowly but eventually destroy the relationship between her and twilight.
You know, this comment section is a lot tamer than I thought it would be. No hate comments that I can see (so far anyway). Good job guys.
7384309
What types of stories are these in? I have to say I rarely come across them
Is there a particular ship where this comes into play more? In other fanfiction I see it used a lot but in my experience the MLP ones usually glance over it with the idea that Equestria has outgrown things like racism and homophobia (which don't get me wrong, is my headcanon.)
7384542
TwiDash in particular springs to mind, but RariJack, TwiJacky, TwiLuna, TwiLestia, RainbowPie, Flarity all have at least a couple that I know of. It's not even just Mane 6. OctaScratch, LyraBon, CaraMac, SoarBurn... the list goes on.
I think it's good to see this kind of side to people/ponies, as displayed by Velvet.
The homosexuality "thing" is still extremely contentious in a lot of ways, and likely will be for years to come.
Lots of people, including several in my family (and, to an extent, myself) were brought up to think certain things. This didn't necessarily include "gayz r bad" or anything like that, but very much did include the idea that heterosexuality was the "proper" way of doing things.
And you can throw whatever facts and arguments you like at someone, whenever and however you like, but if their way of thinking is sufficiently different from yours then it won't all suddenly be sunshine and rainbows (oddly appropos).
What's more, expecting (or worse, demanding) such a drastic change to happen immediately is only going to make things more difficult, for everyone. People of the opposing faction from you are going to feel under attack, and unless you can convince them in a nicer way then there's a good chance they'll start battening down the hatches.
What I'm trying to say is that there really does need to be a greater level of understanding amongst people when it comes to this stuff. People with traditional views on such matters need to understand that stuff isn't as cut and dried as they may have thought at first, and they should be open to the possibility of change. Equally, those pushing for change need to be sympathetic towards those they are trying to convince, as anger and shame are not helpful or healthy methods to convince anyone of anything.
This felt very... human, ironically enough.
That's a compliment, by the way.
7383232
So you don't have any evidence to support your claim? Although it would make sense for the homosexual rate to remain constant throughout history as it has throughout the modern world (which is, contrary to your belief, 2-4%), there is little to no evidence to support this because most civilizations didn't record their populace's sexuality.
I also have no idea where you got that tidbit saying "gay gene=fertile women gene", that implies that homosexuality is a birth defect. Forget historical evidence, I want to see your source on this.
Like someone else said, this felt very... human. It's a rather realistic tale, and I can feel each character's emotions.
So are the modern furnishings in your household, your blatant use of the arcane, and the fact that you actually wipe your own arse when you're done. Doesn't make it inherently wrong.
The narrative flows nicely, a few minor typos here and there. Very descriptive. Rainbow Dash's flirting in front of Twilight's parents is believable, but I'd imagine poor Twilight kicking herself later on for going along with it... just caught up in the moment.
So, how to address the story without getting too heavy... well, I can totally see where the thoughts about homophobia and parental self-loathing are coming from. What I took from the story is it's about acceptance and coming to terms with a situation that might makes ya feel kinda icky.
I've got a gay family member and a few gay friends, and a few people from the older school have said "I can accept your life style, but I can't approve of it." That's tolerance, and realistically all we can hope for in those who don't agree. My observation has been people are not going to mindlessly approve of something they're not comfortable, and they're not going to magically become comfortable if they aren't... but they might accept, especially if it involves someone they care about. I'm glad Velvet did not back down or repent.
I got the feeling towards the end of the story that the conflict had pretty much played itself out -- Twilight Velvet had gotten her feelings out to a loved one and there was nothing more to be said. Life would go on. What's interesting is she's not at peace with the idea and the story acknowledges that as her problem (through Night Light's acceptance) . However she's at least in a frame of mind where she can accept Twilight's partner... she just doesn't want to be reminded of it day in day out. In that case, maybe time will make a difference and maybe not.
The story seems like a channel for ideas -- bounce them off some characters to express different perspectives. For that reason I love it. I some see potential for a sequel if the writer wishes to take it further, but it works pretty well as a standalone one shot.
Liked/fav'd.
Peace
7383177
I typed up a ton of words here but I think something simpler might suffice. Velvet's word usage makes me read her in a passive-aggressive way. She demands things of him and insults him when he tries to help. And he lets her. I know Velvet is in a delicate spot and, honestly, Night Light wasn't being entirely empathetic here ... but Velvet rubs me the wrong way in this. That's all really.
However! I did like it. Even though I feel Night Light is a bit of a nebbish and Velvet needs to reciprocate ... and even that is entirely realistic to me. It's not that the characters are improper or bad or inconsistent. Indeed, I think they are consistent, proper and - above all - realistic. It's just that their realistic voices rubbed me the wrong way a bit personally. Rather than see my comment about Night Light be a criticism about this story, read it as a compliment: I'm giving him advice even though he's not really there.
7383067
What? You sound like you're saying homosexuality is genetic.
7385135 At what point dose she show hate? She loves her daughter enough that even though she dose not feel OK with her choice in partner she is willing to put it behind her for her daughters happiness.
7385135 It's more that her feelings on the matter are making her defensive towards her husband. She doesn't mean to be, but feelings are fickle things.
That's why I remove them from people!
7384309
I have the opposite reaction. When I see same-sex PDA (of either persuasion) in real life I squee like a schoolgirl.
Maybe it's because it's so rare where I live. The mere act of being gay is still a jailable offence here.
7385273 Homophobia dose not always mean hate. You can dislike something without hating it.
7385328 jeez where do you live? I'll make sure never to go there on account of potential jail time.
7384916 Well said. The characters feel like real people.
7384845 While I haven't yet been able to find the fact that the gene is the same one that allows female fertility I have been able to find a source saying homosexuality is genetic, I will keep looking though.
7385685
You've clearly never googled "gay gene"
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/no-scientists-have-not-found-the-gay-gene/410059/
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/10/12/despite-what-you-may-have-read-theres-no-gay-gene/
https://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.php
All these articles basically say "a study at UCLA found no evidence of the gay gene." That last one even goes in depth about other studies from years past and concludes with: "Consider the obvious problem of survival for individuals who allegedly possess a gay gene: individuals who have partners of the same sex are biologically unable to reproduce (without resorting to artificial means). Therefore, if an alleged “gay gene” did exist, the homosexual population eventually would disappear altogether."
This article also points out a flaw in believing homosexuality to be genetic:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11922975/The-latest-gay-gene-study-gives-no-comfort-to-homophobes.html
"There is a major problem with any theories that posit the biological or environmental programming of sexual orientation from pre- or post birth. If heterosexuality and homosexuality are determined and fixed by early childhood — and therefore mutually exclusive and unchangeable — how do we explain bisexuality or people who, suddenly in mid-life, switch from heterosexuality to homosexuality (or vice versa)? We can't."
7385768 And yet it has remained throughout history in a relatively consistent level, suggesting either a common mutation, or a byproduct of a beneficial one.
7385850
Wasn't there a twin study or something, where it showed that the chance of being gay if your twin was gay are the same as the general population? I know of at least one example for sure, but tracking it down is a bit of a pain.
I think (emphasis on think, and keeping in mind that this kind of stuff HAS to be taken with a grain of salt the size of a mountain)(and that most of my info comes from WestHunter, which is a racist, republican, ableist, and generally shitty person).
Anyway. I think, that the closest biological theory is some kind of microscopic parasite or microbe exposure during childhood? It makes a...slightly more than non-zero amount of sense with the fact that having older brothers increases your change of being homosexual.
However, this is just an hypothesis because it would be extremely difficult to actually figure out anything :-/
I Remember having this conversion with my brother after he told me about my cusas's....lets just say point of view on other guys.
7385768
The best theory I've heard is that it's not really a "gay gene" but an "I want lots of sex with men gene".
If men inherit the gene, they are likely to be gay. But the gene doesn't die out because their sisters have lots of babies.