• Member Since 21st Mar, 2013
  • offline last seen 3 hours ago

Grimm


Mostly harmless.

E

The battle is over. 

Chrysalis and her co-conspirators have lost, against all odds, defeated once again by the power of friendship (and overwhelming numbers). For their crimes they find themselves imprisoned in stone, petrified and locked away, and it seems as though their punishment will last forever.

But the new Princess of Equestria isn’t finished with them just yet.

Chapters (1)
Comments ( 132 )

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
-Frederick Nietzsche

Let's get that stale bread.

Torture breaks almost everyone eventually, but some can hold up against it forever.

Orrm #4 · Nov 19th, 2019 · · 1 ·

And I always will be.

"Why do I get the feeling that Crysalyis has already been through something like this?

Perhaps she is old, older than any of them, a relic of a bygone era so far into the past that not a single soul, not even herself, remembers.

A strong will.

An Eternal will.

Brought about by time itself, a burden so cruel it makes her current standings look meek.

She is a Queen who has lead her people from the begining of their inception, pried them from the clutches of extinction more times than she could count and has pushed back monsters the likes of which few ever dare to gaze upon, all for her precious children. She is their queen, for the benefit of her hundreds of sons and daughters she will strive to serve them till the end of time.

And none, especially not a child but a few centuries old, shall change that.

Besides, she has never yielded to Chronos before, why start now?"

9950405
Usually those fighting for their believes, however twisted.

9950429
According to the comics she’s over 1,000 years old. Starswirl played an (accidental and unknowing) role in her creation. He had his beard but appeared to be wandering around by himself, so it’s probably in his pre-Pillar days, which likely means that she’s older than Celestia, albeit by only a few years or decades (and what are those to immortals?).

Furthermore unlike most ancient beings in Equestria, Chrysalis was active for all those thousand years. Out and about and scheming and conquering and eating. Remember that it’s not the years, it’s the mileage. And while Celestia sat pretty in Canterlot and dealt with the occasional monster attack, and Tirek lounged in Tartaros, and Discord chilled in stone, and Nightmare Moon dreamed in her own prison, Chrysalis led the changelings day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day.

And in all that time she managed to keep the changelings secret and strong, to lead them through victories and defeats and more without them ever becoming more than myth and rumor and frightening shadows in the dark, even as there were enough of them to consume entire cities at a time.

Chrysalis has a monumental ego and tremendous pride ...but they’re more than earned.

9950458
On the other hand, the comics also state such silly things like Novo being immortal and such. I wouldn't be too keen on taking them as gospel.

Yes, the unflinching evil through till the bitter end. Exactly as her character was meant to be. :heart:

9950462
They’re a useful resource, though, and I rather like Chrysalis’ origin.

9950464
She’s not exactly being given much of a reason not to be evil other than to stop Twilight torturing her.

9950468
I don't get what you're trying to say. :unsuresweetie: All I'm saying is that Chrysalis's character was never designed to be reformed so this fic is very appealing to me because it's very in-character.

9950469
i don’t believe that she was never designed to be reformed, for one thing. Yes, I’ve read the EqD article and the blog post that you made and have previously referenced. I disagree with them both.

Which isn’t to say that I don’t think that this story isn’t in character; it absolutely is, which is why I favorited and upvoted it. But since I disagree with the premise that Chrysalis has absolutely no path to redemption, it means that observing that she’s being unflinchingly evil here is not how her character is “meant” to be, it’s just the only option that Twilight is leaving her with, since the alternative is capitulation to torture and surrendering her pride, something she’d never do.

If Twilight doesn’t incentivize a change with anything other than “the pain will stop”, if Chrysalis is capable of enduring endless pain, then why would Chrysalis change? This is indicative of Twilight not understanding Chrysalis and what it will take to change her, not of Chrysalis being incapable of changing.

9950496
Then I won't bother on that point any further. :derpytongue2:

I see the point about Twilight.

9950505
As to Chrysalis, that’s fair. I am actually capable of agreeing to disagree. :twilightsmile:

Although speaking of that Twilight smiling there I am kind of starting to get a little tired of Twilight acting like “Keep Calm and Flutter On” never happened in these sorts of fics. Now I personally hate that episode but just ‘cause I don’t like a thing doesn’t mean it’s not canon and didn’t happen. Twilight should know full well that the main reason Discord reformed wasn’t merely that he was unfrozen from stone and told to. It’s that he was also given fairly wide latitude to act and move around while unfrozen, a chance to - while under supervision - be directly shown the benefits of friendship rather than merely told about them for a few seconds.

Ah Twilight. You are so cruel and arrogant. To assume that all life must abide the pony way. You have learned nothing, friendship and harmony is about differences and accepting them not forcing all to be as you. Chrysalis's vengeance will be just considering the unjust prison you keep subjecting them to. Killing them would have been the kinder thing. Ponies are some of the few creatures in literature that do the most evil things through 'goodness'.

She will be resolute. And it looks like she will die that way.

This is really well written. I honestly want to see more of this but I do realize that this was mostly just a one and done type story. Nonetheless I appreciate just bow well done this was and applaud you for your take on an irredeemable Chrysalis.

9950512
have you watched the last few seasons? Most of the mane six dumped their brains in bleach. you can tell the writers were scratching at the bottom.

Those crazy, dysfunctional, evil and friendly ponies were cringe inducing in the first few seasons. Now they are just sad.

9950535
Actually my favorite episode is a Season 9 one (“Frenemies”) and my favorite song was in Season 8 (“The Road to Friendship”). Generally I thought the quality of Season 8 and 9 was pretty good, though there were stinkers largely caused by character flanderization, and I despise the finale (though the epilogue is okay). The only season I think I can say I broadly disliked was 7, and that more because I struggle to really remember anything much about it rather than because it was genuinely bad.

Oh, I hopped aboard the horse train back in Season 2 with “Luna Eclipsed”, if it matters.

Pause #19 · Nov 19th, 2019 · · 7 ·

9950531
Chrysalis's vengeance will be just?

Just no.

When you attempt to subjugate a country three times for no reason other than selfish power grabbing then being trapped in stone is very just.

I mean... one day she will never return to life and that should break anyone's will. One day no life will exist around her. Will she break then.

9950627
oh it is... when she was first stoned. How long ago was that? in our world we have life sentences but the person can still live. they can eat, drink, sleep and do other pesky little things like turn their head. This is a "And I Must Scream" torture to keep it going longer than it takes to find a way to nullify her powers and send her to court and then prison. Celestia and Twilight are monsters for this. It is inhumane and unjust.

Chrysalis's vengeance will be just; It will be equal payment for what Twilight is doing right now.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Chrysalis does indeed deserve punishment; in proportion to the crimes committed. But now; Twilight deserves punishment too. This fic makes her out to be every bit of a tyrant that Celestia is (in the show no less) and I bet she is proud of what Twilight's doing.

Pause #22 · Nov 20th, 2019 · · 16 ·

9950722
"Two wrong don't make a right"?

Except nothing Twilight is doing is wrong. Punishment doesn't fit the crime?

Uh:
Three attempted take overs of Equestria.
Started a major race war among Equestrian citizens so bad it brought back the ancient Windigoes.
Kidnapped Cadence.
Kidnapped the entire Royal Family and the Element Bearers.
Brainwashed Shining Armor.

And the entire reason her species was held back on hunger was because of her poor leadership.

At this point Chrysalis would face death and I don't even support death penalties. Don't make her sound like she's a victim because she isn't. She's facing the consequences of her actions because she refuses to change from being a vengeance fueled self-entitled monster.

And Celestia is a tyrant? That's a complete joke.

Hm, it might be interesting to have a sequel where Chrysalis is so lost to hatred that even though she may not remember what she hates so much, and when Twilight eventually releases her again, she may be so twisted and warped that there isn't anything left of who she once was but the hate, not even her name.

On the other hand, perhaps Chrysalis breaks eventually and Twilight forces her to reform. It could be interesting to see how broken Chrysalis eventually ends up being. Neither Tirek, nor Cozy Glow nor Chrysalis are made for pony friendship, so having Twilight realize none of her charity cases truly succeed could be fun. Perhaps Tirek could eventually wander out of Equestria, unable to truly adjust. Cozy Glow could die alone, unable to make real friends. And Chrysalis, forced in an unwilling reformation, could just be a broken shell.

9950741
it isn't wrong in your eyes to permanently paralyze a person for all time? To rob them of all movement? of agency? To not even fade into sleep? There is no decency in Twilight's actions. She is dangling freedom. She is basically saying "i'll make the pain stop, but you must follow." and that there is one of the many crimes in this fic worthy of being placed right next to Chrysalis (for as long as combined time Chrysalis and the others spent and not a second more; that would be just).


You think Chrysalis should face the death penalty? So do I. Come on Twilight; be kind, be merciful, be generous and above all; respectful (two of these virtues ponies just don't prescribe to). Kill her off. "Oh! I would never do that! Could never do that!" she'll just keep her up in there til her mind breaks completely and the only thing she is offering redemption to is a crazed animal spazing on the floor not knowing that it is no longer stone.


Chrysalis is a victim. It doesn't excuse her crimes in the slightest (and never implied that). I am pointing out how in the end it is two monsters talking to each other.

Pause #25 · Nov 20th, 2019 · · 16 ·

9950761
A victim is a person who has done little to nothing wrong and face unfortunate incidents.

A victim is NOT a tyrant who has left nothing but hurt and destruction in their wake and then has all of their negative actions catch up to them in a punishment/consequence.

You're doing the same thing as all the people who try (keyword) to defend Cozy Glow where you say she did bad stuff but don't say what she did because sane people would look at that and say "She deserves this".

And to top it all off throw a false equivalency into the mix by making Twilight Sparkle a monster because she maintains the consequence of Chrysalis's actions that you won't speak of. Because somehow keeping a person who did all the listed actions below trapped in stone because she desires to continue being the monster that got her into that position somehow makes Twilight a monster.

Jesus, this was chilling.

It does make me think though, that Equestria's way of punishing villains is exactly that, punishment. In our world, at least ostensibly, jail is about reforming a person, to make them fit for living in society (I say ostensibly, because many people see prison as a means to punish a criminal, even if on paper it is about reformation), where in Equestria it is literally throw them away indefinitely, or turn them to stone.

Equestria certainly knows the word oubliette, and it seems apt for this... they are literally put in a place to be forgotten. I mean, Discord was in stone for 1000 years or so, and he was all but forgotten except for Celestia and Luna. Hell, even Luna was forgotten by all other than Celestia for 1000 years. Without Twilight constantly trying to reform them, the alternative would be in 1000 years some fillies fight underneath the statue arguing over what they represent, not knowing that they are living creatures perpetually suspended in stone, unlikely to break free, as they are not powered by chaos as a certain draconeques was.

Compared to what we've seen in the show, this IS actually kinder.

I liked it!

a little side story of a changeling in this distant future finding this forgotten piece of the garden and pulling the vines away to reveal chrysalis's crumpled form would be interesting.

9950772
Here's the thing. Twi's strat will only serve to change absolutely nothing. I'm reminded of that other fic where she has a parole hearing for the 3 (explicitly pointed out they're fully aware the whole time stoned) where she's just doing the same song and dance over and over expecting them to just magically go with her. It's like Vaas's Definition of Insanity speech in its full glory. Trying the same exact strategy over and over expecting this one to be the time it works without changing it in anyway whatsoever. Worse in that she can't even give the dignity of a mercy kill, just letting them stew until their minds just break utterly and go braindead or they suddenly go all nice.

Keep Calm and Flutter On explicitly showed that the thing to truly change Discord was to actually *show* him kindness, and then yank it away. Causing him to actually finally get it due to some actual action from Fluttershy. The only thing this Twilight is ensuring is that some future generation is going to have an even more pissed off Chrysalis that's going to gun for her throat and everyone inbetween unless Twilight either A: Makes an actual effort to change her and not hope for some outside miracle or B: Just grow a spine and kill her already.

9950772
Here's the problem.

This story is premised on the idea that Twilight wants Chrysalis to reform. It may or may not be possible, but that's not what matters insofar as Twilight is concerned here, what matters is that Twilight thinks it is. However, Twilight despite this belief keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to work eventually. Now, yes, it worked on Tirek and it worked on Cozy, but Chrysalis isn't Tirek and it isn't Cozy, and it should have long ago become abundantly clear that it's not going to, that if she wants to redeem Chrysalis then she should be trying some other method. So why does she keep trying anyway? Because Twilight wants it to work on Chrysalis. She wants to prove that she's right to Chrysalis.

In other words, this isn't about Twilight redeeming Chrysalis anymore. This is about Twilight's pride, her own will an ego and beliefs pitted against Chrysalis' own will and ego and beliefs. And in this story, Chrysalis has already realized this (or rather, she believed it from Day 1 when it wasn't true, but at some ambiguous point between Day 1 and Day Whatever, it became true). And the thing is that this does make Chrysalis Twilight's victim here, because she doesn't actually care about Chrysalis as a person - if she did, she would have tried some other method of redemption by now. Instead, she is only continuing this torture, rather than either admitting defeat and executing Chrysalis, or trying some other means of redemption.

The victimization isn't in the fact that Chrysalis doesn't deserve to be trapped in stone for eternity; it's in the fact that Twilight is in essence using Chrysalis as a science experiment, a problem to be solved rather than a person to be understood - dehumanizing Chrysalis, or un-personing her, or whatever term you'd care to use. The tragedy of this situation isn't in Chrysalis being tortured, it's in the inhumanity being displayed by Twilight.

9950772
You are putting an awful lot of words in my mouth. You are even ignoring broader definitions to fit your own dialog. Until you actually start reading my posts there is not a whole lot more to say.

You're doing the same thing as all the people who try (keyword) to defend Cozy Glow where you say she did bad stuff but don't say what she did because sane people would look at that and say "She deserves this".

Just so you'll stop putting these words in my mouth I will waste precious time and energy and repeat your words like a parrot, This way you can no longer say that I don't say it (frankly I didn't as you said it and felt it beneath us both as you say it but you cling to this as a way to undermine my point)

I'll even go the extra distance and BOLD all the stuff you missed ;)

Three successful take overs of three different kingdoms.
Genocide of one whole kingdom
Genocide of fluffy woodland cats (one of the kingdoms)
Mauling one of the above in front of foals
Foal napping (three more cases onto what she has already done)

Releasing forgotten evil horrors onto the Crystal Empire
(unwitting as it was. She ran off when she learned of it, fearing the creatures)

breaking out of two prisons

Three attempted take overs of Equestria.
Started a major race war among Equestrian citizens so bad it brought back the ancient Windigoes.
Kidnapped Cadence.
Kidnapped the entire Royal Family and the Element Bearers.
Brainwashed Shining Armor.

And the entire reason her species was held back on hunger was because of her poor leadership.

=====

Superb Cow even highlights everything I am talking about. Though he has a good point; Celestia, to our knowledge, hasn't tried to redeem anyone till after twilight came about. Twilight is going the extra mile in both cruelty and kindness.

9950772
Oh, also:

because sane people would look at [what Cozy has done] and say "She deserves this".

So, first, I am in fact certifiably, medically sane. So it is with the full breadth of that sanity that I say: no, I do not believe that she does.

But someone else did a much better job of explaining why, and I'll let Anonymous take the wheel.

I'm gonna add my two cents to this thread

The main problem with cozy is striaght up how she was written
From the get-go she was a one dimensional villain whose only motivation was 'muh power'
Now this isn't to say that kind of villain is always bad for a show, it can be done well in some cases
But in this case, they chose the worst possible vector for this kind of personality, a fucking child
She isn't some "Baby Doll" type character who has a disease that makes her look like a child but with the mind of an adult.
No, she is an actual child in this universe, which makes her entire character even more infuriating.

I cannot believe I'm going to say this, but Glimmer was written better than this
Atleast SHE had a backstory. it was kind of garbage, but atleast it made some sense of her motivations
You could actually imagine some phsyco in real life losing the most important person in their life and going schizo because of it
With cozy, thre is no story to make sense of her motivations or actions, nothing to say 'she's doing this because x happened to her'.
No, instead it's just 'muh power' and nothing else.

Again, this wouldnt be as big of an issue if it wasn't for the fact that she is a child
Children in real life can do unthinkable things and their are definately documented caes of children hurting and killing people.
But children don't just go around hurting and killing people for no reason, there's always some deep mental trauma or abuse involved
Years of research has allowed us to fully understand that the mind of a child is incredibly delicate and needs to be handled and molded with care
Because Cozy is written as a one dimensional villain with no backstory, all we're left with is what appears to be a child who is clearly disturbed and needs help.

This is where the Discord problem comes into play.

People have already used appropriate analogies for what Discord did to Cozy, such as throwing an addict into a coke den and expecting them to come out clean.
What Discord did is absolutely unforgivable, especially with the context that Cozy is a child who clearly needs help and not encouragement
Of course, putting her in a cage in tartarus right next to tirek probably didn't help any in that regard. That was infuriating enough
But then along comes discord, who not only encourages Cozy and the other villains to combine their strengths and work together, never giving cozy even a tiny chance to learn the error of her ways, but he also gives them the means to find one of the most powerful artifacts in Equestria, which is the dumbest thing this show has ever done.

To these regards, Cozy never even had a chance at redemption, she was never given one, not in her character, in her backstory, or in her punishments.
She was written as a smart, motivated and calculated one dimensional villain...but in the form of a child.

Ofcourse, nothing about Cozy's character or treatment urks me (or indded, us) so badly as her final punishment.
After not being given a single chance at redemption, being locked away in tartarus right next to tirek, only to be released by discord in disguise, who only tempted her with power and gave her and the other villains the means to potentially take over equestria, what was her final punishment? being turned to Stone...at Discord's request no less!
I mean...wow, just wow writers. I knew you guys had some mental problems but this is verging on phsychotic.

You wrote a mentally deranged child, made her do things no real child would ever do, punished her with timeout in hell, never giving her a chance at redemption, gave her the motivation to continue being evil surrounding her with vengeful villains, gave her the power to take over equestria and then punished her for the things you never gave her the chance to feel sorry for by turning her into a statue for eternity. That's honest to god more phsychotic than what Glimmer did. You absolute lunatics.

There's more but I don't agree with the rest (or that the writers have mental problems, that's just preserved for the sake of accuracy. I just think that the writers are inept who did not think through the full implications of what they were writing). Still, for posterity you can read the whole original here.

I will admit, I'm rather keen on this portrayal of Chrysalis. She opposes Twilight and indeed, all of Equestria, at every turn. She's not simply cruel because she can be, and in fact, she doesn't see friendship as meaningless and boring — like Discord — or as a waste of time — like Tirek and, fittingly, Twilight herself — or as a means to an end — like Cozy Glow — but as the actual antithesis of everything that she is.

In the same way that Twilight, the embodiment of friendship, will always give Chrysalis another chance, Chrysalis herself will never give friendship a chance. She can't give friendship a chance. One day, she will escape, and she will depose Twilight. And just as with Starlight Glimmer, Twilight Sparkles friends will come to her aid and challenge Chrysalis.

Chrysalis and Twilight are Fated to oppose each other until the sun loses its light and the firmament crumbles into dust, for if we are to enjoy the company of the Friend, so too must we face the peril of the Adversary.

9950858
Or if there's no friendly alternative, just kill Chrysalis, be done with it and not risk more pain and misery when she does inevitably break free. Despite what some shows try to preach, killing someone will not make you like them. Sometimes it really is necessary to just off them and save yourself many headaches in the future.

9950871

killing someone will not make you like them

I mean...it really depends on the context and circumstances.

9950761

it isn't wrong in your eyes to permanently paralyze a person for all time? To rob them of all movement? of agency? To not even fade into sleep?

Yes, All the Yes! Especially one like Chrissy The reason is simple: SHE REFUSES TO CAPITULATE

Chrysallis is an egotistical bitch whose priority is her own power base in detriment of her own subjects, simple as that. Once she was shown that sharing Love healed her Changelings she should have embraced it if she was a true ruler (The Thorax Hive literally thrived once they started sharing the love).
Her first on Show apparition was literally "I will replace the Princess of Food, and since I'm the Princess of Food everypony will have no other choice than love me because I'm the Princess of Food, which will make me stronger and stronger until I can overcome Celestia and become the Ruling Pony. Then everypony will love me, and when I'm the most powerful being in the world then I'll give my hive enough scraps of love to let them keep adoring me." and that has been her course during the whole series. she's both unrepentant and unfit to be Queen.

There is no decency in Twilight's actions. She is dangling freedom. She is basically saying "I'll make the pain stop, but you must follow."

seriously' and here I saw twilight say "Only you can stop the pain, admit that your methods were wrong and rejoin your sons and daughters in bliss." to which, Chrissy did as usual: snarl, curse and let her stupidity drive her back to the stone.

and that there is one of the many crimes in this fic worthy of being placed right next to Chrysalis (for as long as combined time Chrysalis and the others spent and not a second more; that would be just).

You don't know the basic definition of crime, it seems.

9950858
Hey... sometimes we make friends with folks who hate us. It makes for ~very~ interesting shenanigans, but it is possible. Sure, it usually devolves into competition and professional rivalries, but on the very rare occasion that folks are diametrically opposed but still manage it, it's a marvel to behold (a terror to live, but incredibly interesting to watch unfold).

9951008
It's hard to justify torturing someone forever, no matter the reason or the intention. You don't see it that way, of course, nor does Twilight. But Chrysalis will never yield.... so all Twilight is doing is keeping her in ceaseless pain. A slow, numbing kind of agony, but eternal agony nonetheless.

There's a reason why the kid in Old Yeller had to shoot his dog, no matter how much he loved him and no matter how much the act ripped him apart. The dog was rabid, and a threat to everyone around it, and was NEVER going to get better.... only worse.

And yes, Chrysalis is a monster... but that doesn't mean she isn't also right sometimes. Imagine you are living your life as best you see fit.... and then one day someone comes along, drags you out of your house, savagely beats you to within an inch of your life, burns your house down, gets you fired from your job, seizes all of your money, and convinces your family that you are pure evil... and then, this person pleadingly tells you that they didn't WANT to hurt you, they just didn't have a choice. You had to be stopped, and they can stop hurting you and be your best friend if only you'll apologize to them. The person who ruined your entire life to begin with. Just so long as you agree to give up on everything you've ever believed in, and swear loyalty to them.

Now.... is that person right? Wrong? More importantly.... does it matter? At all? Could you EVER forgive someone who did that to you? Would you EVER like them? Ever bend the knee to them?

Now, that's a horrible misrepresentation of the situation, you might say. And you'd be absolutely right. It's a half-truth that fails to take into account any number of incredibly important factors. I one hundred percent agree.

But it's also not wrong. And it's certainly how Chrysalis feels about the situation (and then some.) The heart is not so easily dismissed.

Of course, Twilight is a wonderful, wonderful pony. There's no doubt in my mind at all that cruelty is the very furthest thing from her mind. Or revenge, or anything but honest-to-goodness redemption. But she just can't see the situation through Chrysalis's eyes. That's ultimately her great failing here. She can't empathize with Tirek, Cozy, or Chrysalis at all. She CAN'T see the world as they do. She can only try to make them see it her way. Our girl.... isn't perfect, after all.

Give Discord SOME credit: His plot to bring those three together and unite them through villainous friendship pretty well demonstrated that he was the only one who really 'got' them. They couldn't accept friendship on pony terms.... but he very nearly got them to embrace it on their own, in accordance with their own world views. It backfired horribly and predictably, of course.... but it ALMOST worked. And if it had, it would have been the chink, the crack in their philosophical armor, that might have eventually led to them truly reforming themselves.

But, alas...

9951008
Thank you for supporting my "Chrysalis as the Adversary" hypothesis.

9951053
I have to say I agree. At the end of the day, Twilight took everything from Chrysalis, everything and all Chrysalis has left is that anger. Its Twilight's greatest failing that she can't see from other points of view. Its not that she isn't unwilling, its just her background experiences don't leave room for her to see it.

I think this is the biggest issue in real life as well.

At this point I think Twilight need to treat Chrysislis like a rabid dog and put her down. It will be sad but occasionally there are those who will not change and never want to change. Twilight can keep hoping but if it has been millennia and she will not change you must occasionally just give up.

9950462
Maybe not 'gospel' so much as 'canon'. I wonder when we began to equate 'gospel' with canon? It's greek meaning 'good news'.

9951008
Look man, in this situation there is no black and white; only grey.

Regardless of how much Chrysalis is in enthralled in her own pride and vanity; what Twilight is doing IS wrong. It doesn't matter the reasons why but the truth IS; is that Twilight took everything Chrysalis ever cared for. All Chrysalis has is her defiance, Chrysalis is never ever going to repent.

Twilight has good intentions, she believes everyone deserves a second chance. She wants to give Chrysalis that chance, but its never going to happen. At this point all Twilight is doing is torturing her. To spend eons in stone only to be asked by the one who took everything from her to repent for her actions every so often is horrible. There's a reason why DEATH is considered merciful in certain situations.

The KINDEST thing Twilight can do for Chrysalis is kill her. Chrysalis will defiantly hold onto her beliefs regardless of how warped they are. The problem is, is that Twilight will never order Chrysalis's execution so the torture continues.

9951053
I don't know what are you fighting about, I said some of the things from Chrissy's POV. Chrissy's not a hapless victim, she never was. She claimed to do everything for their changelings, but that was a delusion, to her, the goal was to obtain power first, second and maybe third, then it was to feed her hive. (that's the most generous estimate I can offer) That's why she refused Glim Glamoron's offering back when the changelings were blessed with the Gonzales-Camarena disease. because Chrissy knew that sharing the love would mean far less personal power for her, and yes, Chrissy is Old Yeller.

In your analogy - a frighteningly similar scenario to what I've seen my life to be for some years save for a torch known as Mom and without the "I don't want to hurt you... spiel" - Chrissy would be a singular entity, but we all know Chrissy isn't just Chrissy, it's Chrissy and the Changelings, that's why Chrissy became a Monster. some time in the ages, due to the harshness of Life, Chrissy stopped tinking about her bugs and started going on about herself.

This said, yes, Twily ain't purrfect, and she can't see things from Chrissy's PPOV, that's why she's unfit to redeem / reform / reintegrate her to society (likewise with the other 2 chumps).

In the end, what I'm saying is simply that CHRISSY IS NOT AN INNOCENT VICTIM TORTURED AND ABUSED BY THE TYRANNICAL PURPLE BOOK HORSE. SHE'S AN UNREPENTANT CRIMINAL THAT ONLY SEE THINGS THROUGH HER HATRED.

I'm not saying that Chrissy's is right or wrong either.


9951087
I'm more Disagreeing with The Weaver than agreeing with you though...

9951106
That's another thing. twilight Never took anything of Chrissy, That was Glim Glamoron, who helped The dork that is Thor Axe that Giving Luv was better than stealing it from everything around you, heck, one can even say that Chrissy herself threw away everything she had in pursuit of her vendetta against Twily and the Pones.

And let us see what was the last Crime of the Deposed Changeling Matriarch:

SHE SEPARATED THE 3 PONY TRIBES, BRINGING BACK THE DREADED WINDIGOS AND THE ETERNAL COLD.!

If there's something that Twily could have done wrong was to wait long periods of time before offering redemption to the three numbskulls.

In fact, there's another fic where Discord takes upon himself to redeem said three numbskulls... there Chrissy had the best ending (Revered as the Changelings Brood mother, tried to dethrone Thorax and another 3 Changeling Kings before going the way of the dodo).

9951147

but that was a delusion, to her, the goal was to obtain power first, second and maybe third, then it was to feed her hive

Why do you think that?

When Chrysalis first spoke in her true form in “A Canterlot Wedding”, the very first thing she said was that as Queen it was her responsibility to feed her subjects. In that episode she in fact almost exclusively talks in terms of the changelings, her subjects, etc., when speaking of the benefits of taking over Equestria. And she was speaking to a room full of future pod victims, she had no reason to lie or obfuscate her true feelings.

In “To Where and Back Again”, Chrysalis switches between “I” and “we” in reference to the changelings and herself with casual ease. There is every indication that as far as she’s concerned she doesn’t see a difference between the above and herself. She is the changelings.

I totally believe that she puts herself first, but there actually isn’t much evidence to suggest that she doesn’t feel anything for the changelings as a whole and plenty to suggest a feeling of responsibility towards them. It’s not like we see her mistreating or abusing her minions. The only changeling she ever attacks, strikes, or even insults is Thorax - a traitor.

because Chrissy knew that sharing the love would mean far less personal power for her

That’s not my read on the situation at all. My read is that Chrysalis had just had her house and her favorite chair blown up and her car stolen, and then the being who blew up her house and chair and stole her car and the gall to oh-so-graciously offer to give back the car and let her rebuild her house. Starlight had no right to take a Chrysalis’ crown from the perspective of the changeling queen. All she is offering Chrysalis are things she already had before she showed up and started wrecking the place. Food? Chrysalis has a perfect system in place for that already and had already seized Equestria and won food for generations for herself and her Hive. Being queen of the changelings? Chrysalis was already that.

CHRISSY IS NOT AN INNOCENT VICTIM

No one used the word “innocent”. But she is absolutely a victim being tortured by book horse in this fic.

I wonder how Chrysalis would react to a conversation like this.


I lay gasping and wheezing on the ground. My love reserves were dangerously low. A stray cat would be a deadly threat to me in my pitiful state. I found enough strength to look up at my tormentor.

Twilight turned her head and looked into the distance. "Alicorns do not live forever, you know. Cadance and Flurry Heart died in battle. Celestia's time has come and past. Luna left for her stars and will never return." The wind pushed its way through the dry leaves around me. I had forgotten what wind felt like.

The alicorn continued. "I have a sense... no... a feeling of the order of this world, after having been in it for so long. Perhaps in a hundred years or two, Equestria will move on without me."

I smiled. I could honestly not remember that last time I had done so. Triumph filled my voice. "So I will outlast you. My hate will carry me beyond your reign. Then I will—"

"No, you will not." I could not recall Twilight ever interrupting me, even going as far back as our first meeting. "You are forgotten. Not even legend speaks of you. When I am gone, the spells that prevent your stone from weathering will weaken and fail. You will be ground to dust by erosion."

I wanted to raise my head and glare at her, but I didn't have the strength. My thoughts were muddled. That's why all I did was blink and gape at my lifelong enemy. "You would never allow—"

Again. "You are my responsibility. My failure and no other pony's, if you will." She moved closer and brought her head down. I could see every emotion in her eyes. Sadness, a faint spark of hope, but mostly resignation. "I told you I would give you every opportunity to reform... to change." Her eyes narrowed and her mood shifted to determination. Determination nearly on par with my own. "But I never said I would give you an infinite number of chances."

Her horn began to glow and for the first time in a very, very long time, I felt fear. "Last chance, Chrysalis. So what is it going to be?"

9951170
Honestly, that's the vibe she gave me after the Wedding, I feel she shifted focus from caring from the changelings to having her petty revenge on Twilly.

Likewise, I don't see that in "From Where And Back Again", maybe my view of Chrissy is totalñly horseshoed, and yes, I guess she had her home and garden ransacked after she foalnapped the Pony government, soi it was needed that Equestria's SpecOps were to do that to save the pony officials.

finally, while I agree that Twily is not the one that should have tried reforming the three numbskulls, I can accept that, at least on this iteration, Chrissy was, indirectly victimized by Book Horse, but then again, She's purple, and we all know Purple is the color of mindlessness.

In the end, I saw that The Weaver was saying that Chrissy was an innocent Victim, which wasn't the case at all... in this iteration, there is a serious case of Mismanagement that led to the Victimization of a Criminal, that I can accept.

9951186
Continued spite. Chrysalis still isn’t actually being offered anything that she would consider meaningful as a reason to reform, and Twilight just informed her that Chrysalis can make sure that Twilight never gets what she wants.

9951158
Torture, regardless of intentions is still torture. Chrysalis has spent centuries; eons in stone. Chrysalis has done horrible things that is true, but it does not mean there's a point when dues are paid. All those beings that Chrysalis has done horrible things to? Their gone with the sands of time. Even Cozy Glow is dead. (Though I think this is a feint of some kind. Her special talent is manipulation after all, I don't believe she changed her ways.) Just about everyone that was hurt by Chrysalis is either dead or so old that its irrelevant to the issues of the present.

Yes, Twilight is trying to help Chrysalis, but she CAN'T. Chrysalis blames everything on Twilight, everything. Its all she has left, there's no hope, Chrysalis has accepted her situation. But even defeated Chrysalis is a QUEEN. A QUEEN bows to no-one, a Queen leads, a Queen does not break, a Queen most be strong, and a Queen gets revenge for being humiliated. She will always be a Queen, this is why Twilight can't help Chrysalis. This is why death is a MERCY.

It doesn't matter in regards to Chrysalis on what she did to Equestria. Chrysalis BELIEVES she is RIGHT; and if you look at what is going on nowadays, people like Chrysalis double down, they are right and its all everyone else's fault. Nothing Twilight can do will change Chrysalis's ideals, her view of friendship, and what she did. Either Chrysalis will escape from her imprisonment and succeed in getting revenge, or she will fail. If she does fail Chrysalis will ensure that the only outcome will be her death because its get revenge or die trying.

What you don't seem to understand, is that Chrysalis' imprisonment has become unreasonable, it has become torture. You can only hold someone for so long. The only reason Twilight won't kill Chrysalis is that she doesn't want to have it on her conscience. Its why even the birds pity her. The only way out for Chrysalis is DEATH and that is the only KINDNESS that Twilight will not provide. Chrysalis is done, she has fallen on her sword, she WANTS TO DIE. She will force Twilight to kill her if she has to.

Why can't you understand that people will die for what they believe in? People have died for worse and better beliefs. Chrysalis is just one example.

Login or register to comment