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When Apple Bloom is suspended from school for starting a fight, Applejack is forced to make a difficult decision.
This has some content in it that might make readers feel a little uncomfortable ( i.e. corporal punishment), so read at your own risk.
Constructive criticism is welcome!
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That was better than I expected it to be!! (No offence)
Very nice, I like the, ahem, 'old school' feel of the piece and the trepidation of AB when she's bringing the 'instrument' back after AJ sends her t' get it. Reminds me of older works or those that deal with that period when such practices were not frowned upon. I think you captured the spirit nicely.
Have a
(set of apples)
Pffft... Nothin wrong here!
Aww... such feelz!!!!!!!
. She likes sad stories.
This is my younger cousins second fanfiction she has ever read. She says that this one is the best.
Good story, poor Apple Bloom
, her heart was in the right, but not her head. I'm sure she's learned a valuable lesson.
Any plans on a sequel or side-story, from Diamond Tiara and Filthy Rich's perspective and what happen with them?
Feel bad for Sweetie Belle to, Diamond Tiara picking on her hat like that.
If I was applejack I would have punished her so bad that I would be arrested for child cruelty
I have message for L_Wolf and SuperLaserKitty
SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While I want to say a good story, I just can't bring myself thumbs up. I'll tuck it away some where safe though. At the same time though, I feel if a parent were that sad to do it, they wouldn't. Just my opinion.
2921306 Well, Applejack isn't Applebloom's parent, is she?
Sorry but when children step out of line they need to be hit. I am not saying beat them horribly and what not, but a little bit of pain like a spanking. I say this knowing full well how much it hurts to do so (Being spanked as a child), but pain is a strong reminder to not do it again. People can call it cruelty and what not, but getting hit in the softest area of your body is not so bad. Using an implement however is wrong, and if the child already got a black eye I'd not condone spankings.
Knowing the alternatives of time out and being sent to your room are laughable punishments also kinda bolsters this feeling. Also there are some kids who need some kind of punishment like this because their parents are scared of their child.
Ethics of spankings aside it was overall a good story. I also don't think it is sad if they hug afterwords, I mean I never got that with a spanking but whatever.
2921306
Have you never heard the phrase "This hurts me just as much as it hurts you"?
People don't enjoy hurting the ones they love, even if it's part of a justly deserved punishment. Really, Applejack's in a position as difficult as that of Apple Bloom here, and they both handle themselves commendably.
2920862
...
Don't have kids.
2921306
Well, I appreciate you sharing your opinion in a dignified manner, even if I disagree. As Wireless already pointed out, no parent (or in this case, older sibling) should enjoy punishing someone they love. Of course Applejack did not want to switch Applebloom, but she nonetheless felt it was the right thing to do considering the circumstances.
I woulda liked to see a bit more of the fight between AB and DT
That was ok i guess
2920862
errm... k
*moves away*
This is good! I like how you showed that spanking can be done right, and isn't at all like beating a child.
What I have learned about cultural differences ...
Beeing from austria where domestic corporal punishment has been forbidden by law since 1975 I feel a awkward reading such a story ... for me corporal punishment of children is an out of date hillbilly method. I was really shocked when I learned from wikipedia that domestic corporal punishment is allowed in all US states and there even exists school corporal punishment in many states. Shocking
Just something to think about:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7832020
2935534 u know that hole u can make with ur index and ur thumb well that hole is how big imagin how much it must hurt
3003766
Uhh... what?
3003917 yea bend your index finger into your thumb and the joint is how thick the stick can be
3004758
I was not aware there was a concrete form of measurement for this sort of thing, but... okay.
And ponies don't have fingers. Just saying.
2935534
Yeah, I can definitely see why that would be shocking. I'd probably feel the same way if I grew up in Austria.
The thing about the study you presented is that it deals specifically with the effects of corporal punishment on adolescents. It does not make those same correlations between the spanking of children and “an increased risk later in life of depressive symptoms, suicidal thoughts, alcohol abuse, physical abuse of children, and wife beating.” So, when relating the study to this story, it doesn’t really apply since Apple Bloom is definitely not an adolescent.
And quite frankly, I’m not surprised that they were able to make those correlations between spanking teens and those teens having problems later in life. I've never been an advocate of extending corporal punishment into the teen years (the saying, "you are never too old for a spanking" is a load of bullshit). Chances are if you still feel the need to spank a teenager, you’ve been doing the whole thing wrong to begin with. I tried to make Applejack an example of how to do it right; with love (not anger), with the focus being on what the child did wrong and why it was wrong (and not on “mommy spanked me because I made her mad”), without overdoing it, and only for severe misbehavior. Do all parents who spank their kids make sure this happens? Of course not, and it’s a damn shame. But when done right, it can have a positive effect on a kid’s development. That might sound crazy to you, and understandably so, but it’s the truth.
And thank you for taking time to voice your concerns in a dignified manner. I really do appreciate it, even if I have my disagreements.
3006147 true very true but it hurts like hell ive been hit by a stick just to be hit and no it waasnt by my parents it was by my douche friends it hurts like hell
24.media.tumblr.com/a257ad5165644b1f79354634dfdee284/tumblr_mqo61uYbwk1rj6vd5o1_400.png
Now this was a good fic. Have a like and fav as well. Feel free to post this in the long description of the fic.
this left me feeling disgusted. my second favorite pony doing this? it felt so wrong.
im so conflicted with this story.
3007676
Thank you so much! You just made a pretty crappy day a whole lot better!
What's this? You were holdin' out on me, Arwhale! I would have loved to read this when we were talkin'.
I'm reading through it right now, but there are a few things that caught my eye. Firstly, I felt the events at the schoolhouse was a little rushed. You did not fail to paint the scene with your descriptions, but I think a longer build up to Apple Bloom being silently walked home would have been more powerful. I enjoyed the scene with Filthy Rich, however. Adding that he was dreading finding his daughter was a very nice touch, it makes me wonder if he's worried about her well being or if he's more worried about her behaviour. It's a nice touch.
This made me cringe, I'm not gonna lie. I really don't think it's fair to your story to fall back on this trope, especially since Applejack has been told white lies in the show without catching them. Also, the Elements themselves do not -define- a character's abilities, I've always seen them as just benefiting and drawing power from what was already present. Forgive me if that's not what you were going for, but that's my two cents.
Thankfully, AJ's little egocentric thought up there was immediately erased by how she reacted in the wake of Apple Bloom's full confession. Very believable Applejack, comforting her sister when appropriate and explaining that not everypony can control themselves, but still making sure Bloom knew she was in the wrong. Best way to let Bloom mediate on that? Having her fetch the switch. Well done.
I personally would have had Bloom switched a lot longer, but my experiences with that particular type of spanking is non-existent at best. She accepted her punishment without hesitation and had experienced it before, so I just thought that she could definitely take a lot more than what AJ dished out. It felt a little disconnected to have them cuddle for a half an hour for such a short spanking, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the guilty party a good long hug session afterwards.
Sorry if it seems like I'm raining down hard on this fic, but I ain't. I really, really enjoyed it. I always enjoy parenting done right.
You've earned a watch, fave, and vote.
3014980
Heh, sorry about that. Probably should've let you know a while ago.
Anywho, thanks a lot for your honest feedback! I already made a small fix on the "she could always tell the truth from a lie" bit, and I'll consider revising the parts you've suggested. I've got enough on my plate for now, so I'll just have to see what the future holds.
It's funny, because the first version I ever wrote of this story actually detailed the entire fight between Apple Bloom and Diamond Tiara, and the buildup was far longer as a result. In addition, the first version I ever wrote didn't even have any corporal punishment in it at all. But, for whatever reason, throughout my experimentation with how I wanted to write it, it ended up being what you see right now.
Glad to know you enjoyed it! And thanks for the vote and the favorite and the follow and all that!
Congratulations. This story has good enough grammar to be added to the Good Grammar Directory, a comprehensive directory of grammatically correct stories on FIMFiction.
this story was annoying to me having gotten into fight like this myself, i can say the first punch is the only thing that really matters, Diamond was actually completely at fault, she was the one that not only started the fight by attacking sweetie belle but hitting applebloom
it doesn't matter if A-B dared her, D-T should have had control of herself in the first place if anything i find it a flaw of character that applejack would punish applebloom at all for a simple fight, not only is she not her mom, but Applejack herself is one which is quick to the fight and is in of herself a very aggressive pony, if anything i'd imagine they'd grow closer
now if applebloom set fire to the school or something, then yeah i could see that, but this was just
you get a like for making me annoyed, not an easy thing to do
2920862 Huh
.
... I'm just gonna go make a call. Be right back.
Should be "you're".
Not trying to nag. I just thought I should point it out.
I really enjoyed this story.
3217961
Oh. My. God.
Thank you so much for pointing that out. That's usually one of my peeves when people misuse that word...
brb gonna go hit myself in the face with a brick~
3219940 Don't you just bucking hate it?
.
Though I don't think it's worth assaulting yourself with a-
*You hit self with brick*
Well, whatever makes you happy
Hey, Apple Bloom, it could've been worse. Instead of Applejack with the rod, it could've been Darth Sidious with his Force lightning.
This story is so well-written that I desperately want to give it a thumb up and a fave but... I cannot. (I echo 2921306's sentiments.)
Corporal punishment of children is a very sore sticking point for me. I was spanked as a child. Not much, just in the most severe instances. Not with an implement, but simply with a hand. I was spanked the "right way" according to the most popular advice from those who support such things. I even grew up in a culture where it was considered appropriate, so it's not as if I was being singled out for a crappier existence than my peers.
But still... I loathe the memory, and to this day I resent what my parents did to me. It was not right; not in the least. It was abuse, whether it was intentional or not, whether the standards of the time and place disagree or not, that's what it was: abuse. I don't question the fact that my parents loved me, but I put very little stock in their judgement, and consequently, I can't say I respect them as much as a child should respect their parents.
My general disdain for authority has its roots in those punishments. The experience did teach me a valuable lesson, though I doubt it was the intended one: Fear those who would impose their will on you "for your own good".
There are far better and more constructive punishments available for even the most severe transgressions. Punishment through pain only teaches that problems can be solved by hurting another. It implies that the threat of force should be the primary motivator of good behaviour. Suffice it to say, I think this kind of thinking is dangerous and ultimately destructive. It's also insidious, in that it truly does result in short-term gains in terms of improved behaviour, but it promotes attitudes that are profoundly negative in the long term.
As for the story itself...
I feel sick after reading it. Forcing Applebloom to fetch the switch herself? That's just unspeakably cruel, because it expands the punishment to include, aside from physical pain, powerful feelings of dread, fear, and (most disturbingly) helplessness. And I think that is where the abuse truly shines: the feeling of being utterly incapable of escaping your fate, to the point where you are resigned to being an active participant in it. I'll be honest; that is the stuff my nightmares are made of.
And the switching itself went on for... how long? At what point does the lesson "sink in"? Even if I agree that physical pain is appropriate for correcting behaviour, what I just read seems horrifically excessive. I cannot perceive it to be anything but abject cruelty.
I also don't buy Applebloom's rapid recovery. I must again point to my own experience with such punishment: Immediately after a spanking, I would always turn compliant and withdrawn.But inside, I was always - every time - seething with rage and hatred toward my parents. It was in those moments that I would quite literally think, "I don't love you anymore." And though my behaviour would improve, and I would strive to avoid the actions that had precipitated the punishment, I permanently lost a portion of the respect and trust I held for my parents.
I have vowed upon my honour that will never intentionally physically hurt my children as a form of punishment or education. (The only time I would hurt them is in the extremely unlikely circumstance where this would be the only way to prevent some immediate and far greater harm to themselves or others.)
All that said...
I must congratulate the author on writing so well to get such an emotional reaction out of me. This tale is a truly wonderful piece of storytelling. In terms of grammar and technical aspects, I can't fault it. Its characters are solid and (frighteningly) believable. The emotions come through clear as crystal. Bravo.
But... it is the judgement the story presents, the lesson it tries to teach that I so vehemently disagree with that I feel I cannot add a thumb up without feeling like I am agreeing with that lesson. This is a story of (unintentional) abuse being presented as a good and necessary thing. Therefore, I am refraining from any rating of this story. I will simply leave this comment as to what I think of it.
ETA: This story has undergone some edits since I first posted this, including a new extended ending. In the version I read, Applejack was more sure of herself and Apple Bloom's switching seemed to last longer. My comments may seem a bit overstated as a result.
3342476 I agree with this guy too. I'm going to go ahead and thumb-up the story, because it is written well enough, but I do not believe in the message.
I don't personally hold it against those who believe in spanking, but I do believe they are wrong. I know they think they're doing the right thing, but their beliefs are incomplete and formed of ignorance, in my opinion. I am not a professional psychologist, but I do love the subject intensely. And I DO believe that spanking... is a conditioning act which may provide results, but with its own cost. The best way to change behavior, is to teach someone why what they did is wrong, and get them to the point where they regret their behavior THEMSELVES. They have to see it for themselves, and want to punish themselves. If you punish them, especially through such an archaic method as spanking, you may be conditioning them to not do the wrong... but you're missing the opportunity to make it a lasting lesson, and reinforce why it is wrong. Spanking is a fast and dirty conditioning method, that works, but I believe is unethical, archaic, and formed of ignorance. All forms of help can be administered without hurting an individual.
Probably not too feasible at Apple Bloom's age, but in theory (mine anyway) the greatest way one could've handled this is to teach AB why violence and conflict are self-perpetuating cycles, teach AB why these are things we want to decrease, not increase, and inevitably teach AB why, rather than opposing Diamond Tiara and desiring to hurt her, why she should instead be the bigger pony, and try to HELP Diamond Tiara through whatever it is that drives her to taunt the other fillies. If AB was to realize she could be trying to make the world a better place, but instead, just perpetuated the cycles, which in the end, will also make her life harder, it stands to reason AB could've come to GENUINELY regret her actions, not because she knew she'd be punished for them, but because she knew her actions would indirectly be contributing to the thing she dislikes (conflict), at which point her regrets would be her own self-administered punishment, and the lesson would've been much stronger than a switch to the backside could've ever taught.
In the end, we are all entities of consciousness, the bodies we inherit only serve to allow us to interact and manipulate this world. If there is a fault in the mind of another, that manifest through bad behavior, we would always be better served to try to fix the fault of the mind, by increasing intelligence, than by archaic conditioning mechanisms that resort to harming the physical body, in hopes the mind will associate the bad behavior with pain. The problem is... people that spank don't think they're doing wrong. Most of them do it because it was what they were taught to do. These are the kinds of people who don't study psychology, and know their method works, and never bother to ponder what's really at play. These people aren't wrong, not as beings, they're just making a small mistake based on ignorance.
3006184 Not necessarily. Some kids could still become embittered regardless.
In other words, no disciplinary action is perfect. Corporal punishment has its flaws, it's not always right, and even it doesn't always work. Sometimes, like everything else, it can do more harm than good.
Also, I just realized something. Applejack is kinda being a hypocrite. She's failed to reign her anger in plenty of times (not as much as Rainbow Dash but still) so deep down she isn't the right one to give Applebloom a lecture.
All these people crying
It's wonderful
Pain is a good way to show people that they are doing something wrong, and when applied in a harmless instance such as spanking or even a switch such as this (which is a step up from spanking, as a cane would hurt more than a hand), I don't see an issue. In addition to the fact that it wasn't out of anger, or maliciousness, or hate, but rather as a way of teaching, I see no real issue. She wasn't trying to damage Apple Bloom, just give her enough of a sting to allow the memory to remind her that what she did was wrong. The same thing happens in real life. I was spanked a few times as a young child (didn't really work on me since I'm a terrible human being, but don't take me as a control subject), and I'm not horribly scared from it. As long as you do not damage whatever you are spanking or punishing, then you aren't doing any harm, and are in fact helping them with the association pain.
Dear fuck.
First a spanking and then nice words and huggings right afterwards? That doesn't quite fit together, if you ask me.
3555187
And as long they actually understand why. If they don't, then they'll just grow fearful of the person (or pony) administering the punishment.
3724571 right, understanding is key
3555187
Well, the one spanking instance I remember is basically going to a friend's house for a while without telling my parents.
My dad went ballistic since he thought I was kidnapped. What followed wasn't very fun, but it taught me to always inform my parents where I was going before I headed out of the house.
It's effective, but it has to beapplied in the right instance and with the right mindset, as pain is a very sharp double-edged sword. Just as easily, you can cut yourself as your child.
Y'know what? I am thumbing this up.
I am not thumbing it up because I condone corporal violence or really had any experience with it. Nor am I thumbing it down for the fact that you made me feel horrible and a little upset by the end of the story.
I am giving this the thumbs up because this is a very real circumstance. And, a very well written one at that. The emotions between the characters were very genuine and believable. The understanding between Applejack and Apple Bloom during the situation had very solid presence. I see this more as an understanding of how corporal violence is very ingrained in our nature. And, how it influences the minds and emotions of some guardians and children, who were raised with the notion that it is an acceptable punishment. Applejack feels conflicted on whether she did the right thing or not because she knew the pain that she had inflicted on Apple Bloom. And, even though Applejack grew up to be a better mare after having experienced some violent punishment, she herself isn't even sure if it's because of the punishments. She grew up to understand why her daddy would do it, but that probably didn't do away with the lingering thought that he was probably in the wrong for it. A small form of resentment, yet understanding.
So, for Applejack to do the same to Apple Bloom, she still had thought that it was part of what her father did to raise her correctly. But, she also feels that she should be ashamed because, deep down, she's not sure if it was ever right. And, Apple Bloom knew what was coming. Even when she was so close to being completely honest, she still didn't initially tell the whole truth. She had hoped that she would avoid getting into the helpless situation of being spanked. It means that she really does fear the punishment, and even her sister a little. Apple Bloom wanted to get away from Applejack. But, she had the strength to take the punishment anyway. She was taught that it would happen if she messed up enough. And, she probably won't pick a fight ever again.
However, they both continue to remind each other that they still loved one another as sisters. An ending that just makes me feel so twisted inside, yet profoundly enlightened on the implications of the punishment. Whether I like it or not.
You did a fine job writing a truly Slice of Life.
This guy 3933433 captured my feelings exactly. I'm still giving this a thumb and fave even though I don't really feel what AJ did was right for the situation. IMO, DT was the instigator and AB was already physically hurt, so any sort of punishment beyond a talk doesn't seem right to me. That's my opinion though,and beyond that, it's a good story about AJ trying to figure out the right reaction here and being unsure, even at the end. The extra-long hug session is telling to me in that regard. I've always seen AJ as a quasi-mother figure to AB, including when it comes to tough decisions.
TL;DR I disagree but I still like it.
This was beautifully written.
An example of prose I hope to attain.
Also, your example of corporal punishment is a spot on example of how it should be done.
Never let the child believe they are not loved or not accepted.
Amazing work!
2924766
2924766 aawwwwwwwww your profile picture is sooooooooooooooooooooooo cute! (ps im a boy)
4545802 thanks??? That's my SSP <3