Punishment and Forgiveness
Punishment and Forgiveness
by Jonathan “KnightMysterio” Spires
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Canterlot...
Royal court...
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The buzzing of nobles filled the room, unicorn, pegasus, and earth pony alike. All were clad in black robes, muting their normal colorful coats as they awaited the subject of this trial.
At the head of the court, three figures waited with grave air and sour expressions. One was a white unicorn with a blonde mane and tail, a compass star on his flanks and a bow tie and cravat around his neck. He was glaring at the pegasus next to him, a royal blue stallion with a red mane and tail, wearing a black suit coat and red necktie. An official-looking document adorned his flanks. Looking pensive and wishing she wasn't there was an earth pony mare, deep black with a white mane. On her flanks was a judge's gavel, and she wore a regal-looking robe.
“Let's get this farce over with,” the unicorn muttered.
“Prince Blueblood,” the pegasus said, irritated, “I'm surprised at you. You of all ponies should be questioning Celestia's judgment on this.”
“I question her on matters of commerce, Lord Frilled Shirt,” Blueblood said. “I question her on matters pertaining to the commoners and her spoiling of them. On matters of state? On matters of justice? I find no fault in her actions.”
“Then you're a fool,” Frilled Shirt snapped.
“Gentlecolts, please,” the earth pony said, holding up a hoof. “We are the highest nobles in the land, chosen by the people to represent our respective tribes. We should behave better than this.” She was silently glad that she was not between the two of them.
The two stallions glared at each other, but calmed down. “My apologies, Minister Tough Choice,” Blueblood said. “I simply do not see the need for this trial.”
“Which astonishes me,” Frilled Shirt said. “Princess Celestia has made a long string of foolish, risky decisions. This latest one is simply too much.”
Blueblood shook his head. “Let's just get this over with,” he muttered.
“Indeed,” Frilled Shirt said. “We have delayed FAR too long!”
Tough Choice nodded. “This meeting of the Noble Court of Canterlot is now in session!” she called out. “We meet today to launch an inquiry into the decision-making process of one half of the Most Noble Diarchy, Princess Celestia!”
There was a rumbling of murmurs from the gathered lords of the various houses. Tough Choice gestured to the door. “Guards, please allow her Highness to enter.”
The two unicorn guardsponies by the door nodded, their horns flaring and pulling open the massive golden doors of the hallway. Almost immediately, everypony in the room flinched.
Princess Celestia stood in the doorway. The alicorn was massive, compared to the other ponies in the room, tall and slender, with a long, pointed horn. Her wings, folded at her sides, added to her angelic appearance. Her coat was shining white, and her mane and tail were the color of a morning sunrise, flowing in an unseen breeze. Her regalia, a tiara-crown, peytral, and hoofcups, were golden, as shining as she was.
What made everyone flinch was her eyes.
Instead of the benevolent, kind gaze those magenta orbs usually held, her eyes were instead narrowed in utter irritation with everyone in the room. And for some reason, she was holding a large plush kangaroo in her magical aura.
“Erm... Your Highness, the kangaroo?” Tough Choice asked.
“I figured it was appropriate for this court,” Celestia said, the more loyal among the nobles flinching again. “And besides,” she added, “the staff in the royal gardens wouldn't let me take the real one.”
Frilled Shirt coughed. “Well... insult aside, I assure you that every charge in this case is legitimate. A fair and balanced judgment will be provided in this case.”
“Oh? Then why are you here?” Celestia taunted, Frilled Shirt visibly bristling, his wings flaring in anger. Celestia just sneered at him, and set the plush kangaroo, as large as a normal pony, down in front of her. The alicorn then lay down, using it as a legrest.
Frilled Shirt glared down at her. “Your Highness, please sit up for this,” he said. “These are serious charges.”
“Serious to you at least,” Celestia said. “I find this whole thing to be farcical.”
“You are showing disrespect to the Court,” Frilled Shirt growled.
Celestia glared at him. “And when has the Court ever shown respect for me? For centuries I have been trying to pass laws to allow educational reform, only to be stifled at every turn...”
“WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO'S ACTIONS ARE IN QUESTION!” Frilled Shirt bellowed, taking to the air in his anger.
Celestia's eyes narrowed. “Calm down,” she ordered, her voice reverberating with the quiet force of it.
Frilled Shirt flinched, both Tough Choice and Blueblood forcing him to sit down. “If you seriously want to do this, idiot,” Blueblood muttered, “then calm down. Otherwise Trollestia here will provoke you into making a fool of yourself.”
“Please, Frilled,” Tough Choice said, “you do have a legitimate case. If you'd just be patient...”
“I'm fine, I'm fine...” Frilled Shirt growled. “Just... let's get on with it.”
“Please do,” Celestia said. “I've sacrificed precious time I could be spending with my sister before she sleeps to come to this joke of an inquiry.”
Tough Choice shook her head. “Your Highness, this is serious. There are serious questions about your judgment in play here.”
“About?” Celestia asked, already bored.
“The pardoning of Tempest Shadow,” Blueblood said, “and her subsequent assignment to Princess Twilight Sparkle's personal guard.”
Celestia rolled her eyes. She had seen this coming, and didn't even need one of her occasional prophetic dreams to do it. “And I assume other pardons I issued will be brought into question as well?”
Frilled Shirt nodded. “Indeed. The pardons of Starlight Glimmer, your treasonous former student Sunset Shimmer, the Changeling hive once under the control of Queen Chrysalis, Trixie Lulamoon, Discord, the Pony of Shadows, and the madmare Nightmare MoGGKKK!” Celestia's horn flared, a magical aura appearing around Frilled Shirt's throat and lifting him into the air.
Celestia's eyes had become a deep, fiery red, the irises becoming the color of fire. “I'm sorry. What was that you said about my sister whom I love more than my own life?” she said in a distressingly calm voice. The nobles of the Court pushed away from her in their seats, those closest to Celestia noticing that the temperature around her had gone up.
“Nothing!” Tough Choice said fearfully, glancing up at the struggling Frilled Shirt. “He said nothing!”
“Auntie, please!” Blueblood begged. “Calm down!”
Celestia closed her eyes, letting Frilled Shirt drop back into his seat. “I will tolerate no insult against my sister. She has proven herself time and again. You will not refer to her as Nightmare Moon unless you are referring to her favored 'costume' for Nightmare Night,” she said. Her eyes opened again, and they were back to normal, as was the temperature around her. “Do you understand?”
Frilled Shirt just nodded, his gaze a mix of anger and fear of the alicorn. “Yes, your Highness.”
“Good,” Celestia said, nodding. “As you can see, angering me causes my solar magic to flare, raising the temperature of the room. And I wouldn't want to incinerate Mr. Hoppity here.”
“Mr. Hoppity?” Blueblood asked, confused.
Celestia giggled, picking up the plush kangaroo and hugging it. “I find myself growing rather fond of my new friend here.”
Blueblood facehoofed.
“...To begin with,” Tough Choice said, deciding to move on, “the Court calls into question the wisdom of pardoning Tempest Shadow, who led the recent invasion and subsequent conquest of Equestria.”
“Fizzlepop Berrytwist,” Celestia said.
“...Excuse me?” Tough Choice asked.
“It's her real name. Fizzlepop Berrytwist,” Celestia explained, making her plush kangaroo dance around idly. “She's decided she wants to be known by that from now on.”
“...That is the cutest name ever,” Blueblood commented.
“Very well...” Tough Choice said hesitantly. “But the fact remains, that... Fizzlepop Berrytwist was involved in the subjugation of Equestria, for the purpose of stealing its most powerful magics, that of you and your fellow alicorns, for the use of the Storm King.”
“Yes... Poor girl,” Celestia said softy. “She's had a rather rough life. Amazing how strong she became to compensate for her missing horn.”
Frilled Shirt snarled. “What about the ponies she hurt? That she enslaved!? What about them?!”
Celestia nodded. “Certainly, I care about them as well. I've already authorized the funding necessary to rebuild damaged homes and replace any replaceable items lost in the various battles. As for Fizzlepop herself...”
“You have allowed Twilight Sparkle to take her in as a member of her personal guard!” Frilled Shirt said. “She BURNED Ponyville to the ground, and you're allowing her to protect it!”
“It was more Luna's idea, honestly,” Celestia said, smiling casually. “I wanted to assign her to my personal guard.”
Frilled Shirt's jaw dropped. Tough Choice, Blueblood, and several of the nobles in the room gave Celestia incredulous looks.
“...You cannot be serious,” Frilled Shirt said.
“She commanded an army that bested the military forces of every nation it came across,” Celestia said. “Why wouldn't I want her on our side?”
Frilled Shirt blinked. “Wait, you pardoned her for her military prowess?” he asked.
Celestia smirked. “What, you thought I only did things for friendship reasons?” she teased.
“...Maybe?” Frilled Shirt said, fidgeting uncomfortably.
Celestia sighed, shaking here head. “I am not that much of a sentimental fool,” she said. “Certainly, I feel sorry for the life that Fizzlepop has led, and I believe that working to redeem herself will be good for her. She is honestly penitent for her crimes, and regrets letting the Storm King use her for so long.” She looked directly at Frilled Shirt. “She is also a brilliant general and a masterful warrior. Princess Twilight has resisted starting her own personal guard for so long... by assigning Fizzlepop to her as a 'friendship student,' she'll be better protected.”
Blueblood nodded, understanding. “So you forgave her for practical reasons,” he said.
“Indeed,” Celestia said. “And if you'll let me, I can justify all of my pardons with logical reasoning.”
Frilled Shirt, Blueblood, and Tough Choice all conferred for a moment, and nodded. “Proceed, your Highness.”
Celestia sat up, looking over the crowd. “I have already explained my reasons for allowing the pardon of Fizzlepop Berrytwist, so let's move on to the next on the list – Starlight Glimmer. The fact that her name was brought up at all shows me that her actions both as the leader of the anti-Cutie Mark cult and her attempts to disrupt the timestream are known to you all.”
“Yes,” Frilled Shirt said. “She is dangerously unstable, and impossibly powerful...”
“And astonishingly brilliant as well,” Celestia said. “Executions are forbidden in Equestria, as they are an act of hatred that would contribute to the revival of the Windigos. That being said, locking her up would be impractical. With her brilliance, talent for innovation, and raw power, even with her horn suppressed, I believe that she would find a way to escape and continue her rampage. Pointing out the pettiness of her reasons behind her actions as well as helping to reform her has gained Equestria a powerful ally. Indeed, she was one of the ones responsible for saving all of us when the deposed Queen Chrysalis kidnapped us all. In addition, she helped Twilight, the Elements, and the Pillars permanently seal away the Pony of Shadows, freeing his host Stygian as well.”
The gathered nobles all muttered to themselves. They still weren't convinced. Celestia just smiled, continuing. “As for Sunset Shimmer, while she was badly misguided and admittedly did a great deal of terrible things during her first couple years in the other world, she has since made a complete turnaround in the kind, noble young mare I knew before she left. She, along with Princess Twilight and the Element-Bearers counterparts, bested the Sirens in a musical battle, removing their ability to cause strife with their magic. And since then, Sunset has taken on the responsibility of solving the magical leak from Equestria to that world that been causing trouble there.”
That caught the attention of the nobles, as many of them were unaware that magic was leaking over. Many realized, to their dismay, what a leak into a non-magical world would result in, and how it could affect their world as well. They couldn't fault Celestia for leaving someone as talented as Sunset there to take care of it.
“But what of the Chrysalis's hive, your Highness?” Tough Choice said. “Twice now, they've invaded Canterlot with intent to conquer!”
“And the moment King Thorax presented them with a better option, they tossed her aside, sided with him, embracing peace and friendship,” Celestia said. “And before anypony says anything, King Thorax himself embodies ALL of the great virtues our country espouses. He is kind. He is generous. He is honest. He is LOYAL. And oh, how great the joy in his heart is...”
“How do we know that this isn't just a plot of Chrysalis's?” Frilled Shirt questioned.
“How do we know that you aren't planning to assassinate me and take the throne for yourself?” Celestia questioned right back.
Frilled Shirt sputtered indignantly at the accusation. “I AM LOYAL TO EQUESTRIA!” he proclaimed.
“I know,” Celestia said. “Despite our differences in opinion, and how annoyed I am at this time-wasting inquiry, Frilled Shirt, I trust you.”
Frilled Shirt blinked, taken aback.
“That's what it's all about, really,” Celestia said, sighing. “Trust. The Pillars, including my beloved mentor Starswirl the Bearded, chose not to trust Stygian, condemning him without asking why he took their artifacts. That condemnation led him to be possessed by the entity you call the Pony of Shadows. It is a small miracle that Twilight and Starlight were able to free him from the creature's control before it was exiled to limbo.” Celestia shook her head. “Fizzlepop. Sunset. Starlight. Discord. Stygian. They all made terrible decisions that led them down a path of darkness. They are truly penitent and regret their actions. I have chosen to trust them, and allow them the chance to make up for their misdeeds.”
“Discord betrayed that trust,” Blueblood said, deciding to play devil's advocate.
Celestia shook her head. “And how much of a reason did we give him to trust us?” she asked. “Chaos is necessary. Without it, there is no advancement, no movement forward. Everything becomes stagnation and rot. Chaos adds vitality, chance, and excitement. It spurs innovation, new ideas. In addition, I knew that if we just locked him up, he'd eventually escape again and start hurting everypony. Which is why I took a chance, and entrusted him to Fluttershy's gentle kindness.” A sad look crossed her face. “She was the only one who truly gave him a chance at first. So when Tirek offered him a chance at both friendship and freedom, he took it. It was only after Tirek betrayed him that he understood what friendship truly meant, and how much he gave up by siding with him.” She looked every noble in the eye. Many of them flinched away. “I chose to forgive him. To trust him. And that trust was rewarded in the best possible way, when he helped Starlight, Trixie, and King Thorax save my family, myself, and the Elements from Chrysalis.”
“His nature is chaos,” Frilled Shirt said, glaring. “How do we know he'll remain loyal?”
“I don't know,” Celestia conceded. “So we'd best give him reason to stay loyal, hm?”
The nobles all muttered amongst themselves for a moment.
“What of Trixie?” Frilled Shirt said, grumbling. This had NOT gone as expected. “She sought out a dangerous artifact and, after being possessed by it, caused a great deal of harm to other ponies.”
Celestia rolled her eyes. “Trixie's a harmless braggart who made a bad decision. Even under the corrupting influence of the Alicorn Amulet, no one was really hurt. Even Pinkie could still breath somehow, despite her muzzle being removed. On top of that, she was beaten with simple stage magic trickery. She's made good friends now, has been regularly meeting her parole officer, and despite still being a raging egomaniac, is still on a much better path than she used to be.”
“What about the LAW?!” Frilled Shirt demanded. “They've all committed tremendous crimes! They should be PUNISHED!!!”
“And what good would locking them up serve, hm?” Celestia snapped. “Put them in a box and let them stew, all you'd get in the end is someone with even MORE reason to hate us! Forgiveness, friendship... those are much better ways of helping someone. Besides...” She sighed. “I am not the strongest fighter, gentlemen. I am powerful, to be sure, but I'm more of a talker than a fighter. Luna was always stronger than I. It is so much better to earn an enemy's friendship, to make them not an enemy, instead of locking them up. It removes the threat, and keeps the conscience clean.”
Blueblood smirked. As expected of his dear Auntie...
“Besides,” Celestia said. “If I were implementing the law strictly, then you'd be up for summary execution, Lord Frilled Shirt.”
“WHAT?!” Frilled Shirt almost shrieked.
“Your majesty, what are you talking about?” Tough Choice asked, confused beyond measure. The other nobles were making similar noises of outrage.
“Oh dear...” Blueblood said softly, realizing where this was going.
“Lèse-majesté,” Celestia said simply. “You insulted my royal sister by referring to her as a madmare. It's an old law, and I'm not fond of it... but if I recall, it's a treason-level offense.” She smiled wickedly.
Frilled Shirt felt his blood run cold. “I... I...” he stammered.
Celestia smiled benevolently. “It's all right,” she said. “I forgive you. As I forgive all of you your foibles and sins.” She picked up her plush toy, standing up and preparing to leave. “All I ask in return... is your trust. Trust in me, if you cannot trust them. I believe that their desire to reform their evil ways is real. And I believe that they can be the better ponies they were meant to be. As I believe in all of you.”
She turned to the three heading up the inquiry. “Is there anything else?”
Tough Choice sighed. She looked to Frilled Shirt, who just grumbled and waved dismissively, while Blueblood just smirked and nodded. “No, your Highness,” she said. “I suspect you'd have an answer for anything we gave to you.”
Celestia just smiled, leaving with her plush toy. “May Harmony bless you all,” she said, trotting calmly out of the room. The door slammed shut, and the nobles began to talk among themselves.
“Well that went well,” Tough Choice said sarcastically.
“Can't believe we're letting her get away with this,” Frilled Shirt growled.
Blueblood rolled his eyes. “It's Celestia. The commoners would forgive her anything,” she said. “It doesn't help us that she's almost always right.”
“You could have done more, Blueblood. You're just as opposed to some of her policies as I am,” Frilled Shirt growled.
Blueblood chuckled. “That's not quite true. I am against them, yes,” he said. “I think she's pathetically naive and has an unhealthy fascination with her lessers. But I know better than to oppose what she wants. She's almost never been wrong, and never forgives her own mistakes, such as in her failure to curb Sunset Shimmer's ambition or her inability to recognize the stress her sister was under that made her become Nightmare Moon a thousand years ago. Equestria is better off with the alicorns in charge, I recognize that.” He stretched, and rubbed his neck. “I just don't have to like it.”
“We're never going to be able to bring Tempest and the others to trial, are we?” Tough Choice said softly.
“I don't think so, no,” Blueblood said. “For one thing, she's right about how useful the former villains have been. In addition, Auntie believes too much in reform rather than incarceration. I truly believe that she'd give Chrysalis, Tirek, and Sombra a chance to reform if they came to her and meant it when they said 'I'm sorry.'”
“I truly hope we never have to deal with that,” Frilled Shirt growled, slumping in his seat. “The paperwork for dealing with the villains we already have reformed is bad enough. To think of the logistical nightmare we'd have to deal with for those three...”
Blueblood shook his head. “Celestia is a tidal wave, my friends, one that's gotten stronger since Luna returned,” he said. “The best thing you can do is surf the curve, and hope you don't wipe out.”
“...Since when do you surf?” Tough Choice said.
Blueblood grinned wickedly. “Well, one time, in the Marehamas...”
“Forget it,” Frilled Shirt said. “I don't need to hear you going on about your conquests. I just want to get out of here and get something to drink.”
“I'll consider that a motion, and second it myself. All in favor of calling off any further inquiry for now?” Tough Choice asked. A vast majority of hooves went up. “Motion carries. Dismissed.”
The nobles all filed out, Blueblood deciding to indulge himself and head to that commoner shop Celestia and Luna liked, Donut Joe's. He shook his head as he thought about his fellow nobles. Why couldn't they see how pointless it was to stop her attempts to reform villains?
And when would they realize that she was subtly trying to 'reform' them as well?
Ah well. Questions for another day. For now, all he wanted to do was enjoy some donuts. Heck, if the Sisters liked them, they had to be good.
THE END
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My biggest question really, concerning THE MOVIE, is where was the guard? Any of the guard?! I choose to believe they were with Discord & Starlight Glimmer doing something that must have been COMPLETELY NECESSARY!!!
Either fending off an elder abomination of evil, or playing shuffleboard against an elder abomination of evil.
This is fantastic.
Ab-so-lute-ly Fantastic!
Wow, great work here! I'm real impressed with the reasons Celestia gave for forgiving so many of the villains - and as someone who's struggled with the idea of Starlight and Tempest/Fizzlepop's redemption, I do have to say that it's a nice lesson to be reminded of.
And you write the best Blueblood. XD He's snobbish but also genuinely loyal to his aunt, and a damn sight smarter than many of his fellow nobles (which is actually a little scary).
There is a method to Celestia's madness, and if you think it's madness in the first place, you may be the one who needs a head examination.
Lovely stuff. Thank you for it.
8660864
Implying that shuffleboard wasn't an essential part of thwarting said entity.
I do have an issue with Celestias attitude in this. While she may have legitimate reasons for it, the nobles concerns are valid. Her walking in with a stuffed kangaroo and the contempt she showed wasn't right. Also the nobles know way too much about certain things they probably shouldn't, while they should be aware of Starlight Glimmers actions in Our Town, her time travel ones shouldn't be public knowledge even to the nobles because of the dangers of knowing such a spell exists. And I seriously doubt they would know anything of what Sunset Shimmer did since Celestia would want Sunset to be able to come home and start fresh without any problems.
Other then that a good story.
Damn good work Celestia. Once again, showing us just why you are somepony who's ruled for a 1000 years. She's put up with tougher shit than you quite frankly, pathetic, nobles.
Maybe, but he knows Celestia personally. He's probably seen her with the metaphorical mask she wears off.
I get it!
I love how Blueblood is just having absolutely NONE of this shit.
That was the poorest possible choice of words to describe Luna.
I love this Blueblood.
I maintain that Tempest Shadow sounds as silly and edgy to ponies as it does to us and Fizzlepop Berrytwist is actually a case of Awesome Mc CoolName.
She does it a lot, but not always.
That's one way of seeing it.
She has a point. Do you REALLY want a mare that powerful running amok and even angrier and more unstable than before?
I believe you. You probably would have been ousted if Celestia thought you planned to stab her in the back.
She COULD have simply exiled them, or imprisoned them, but, they've shown that they regret their actions. Whether they ACTUALLY do in Discord's case as he probably operates on Paid and Polka Dot Morality is another matter, but he's helped. Besides, better than him being still in stone and if he got out again, he could do WORSE.
You don't. BUT, he has friends. He has ponies he likes and trusts. They can serve as a guarantee of that loyalty. And this way, he gets to have his fun.
BreathE.
She has a point.
This is an interesting Blueblood. He doesn't always agree, he can be pompous to a fault, and he doesn't always like the decisions Celestia makes, but he's loyal. Because he knows Equestria runs a real chance of being fucked otherwise.
And sometimes he's just snarky.
And if not, lesson learned.
8661144
Luna who tried to kill Celestia (hers to forgive), conquer Equestria and end daylight (NOT hers to forgive! It affects MORE than just Celestia!)
8661245
Yes. But do YOU want to insult her in front of Celestia? If so, go ahead. Just lemme get a coffin ready for you first. Or just an urn for your ashes.
8661144
It's not an insult if Luna WAS a mare devoured by her own jealousy and bruised ego to the point it became an illness.
8661252
And feelings of rejection and abandonment.
Forgive me for quoting one fictional character in responds to another fictional character,
Wolverine of the 90s X-Men cartoon over his desire to put down Sabertooth.
(To note: In real life I am very much against the death penalty because unlike fiction land, there is always a chance you have the wrong man no matter how the papers spin it. Our legal system ISN'T perfect, and death is permanent.)
8661271
Why are you telling me this?
8661256
True.
8661272
fixed
8661248
And doth be spun by my fellow nobles as a martyr to the cause. Celly as a leader knows her people are ALWAYS watching her, every action she takes is not her own.
8661363
Blueboold simply has more contact with Celestia than other nobles because of being her "nephew", and so is more
indoctrinatedreformed.8660961
Yeah I was thinking this too. I can't recall Celestia ever being this nakedly vindictive to anyone, villains included. The closest I can come up with is when Tirek broke in on the princesses and found they already transferred their power, and she just gave him this tiny troll smirk.
Celestia is too level-headed to show that kind of outward contempt, much less pick a dude up by the collar because he talked crap about her sister for almost causing a literal apocalypse. She's not without her catty side, but she keeps it pretty subtle. I'd totally expect the kangaroo plushie and an off-hoof comment about it, for what it's worth -- that fits. But if she starts resorting to that kind of physical threat, one hopes it's because she's attempting yak-style diplomacy in Yakyakistan.
8661363
hug the plush kangaroo or moon trip
I strongly believe in giving reformed villains a second chance, but letting Chrysalis walk in To Where and Back Again, especially right after she swore absolute revenge on
a reformed villainthe pony that saved Equestria from her, is another story.Ah, the communist village, as it's affectionately known.
8660938
If Discord was involved, it was probably a mix between basketball, shuffleboard and calvinball. In space.
Funny.
Okay. I went in thinking this was going to be so much worse then what it was...... I'm glad I was wrong. This was good.
Huh. A Blueblood who's actually competent and semi-likeable. Reminds me of his portrayal in The Best of All Possible Worlds. Well done sir, well done.
"The world won't change unless we trust people."
-Larry Folke (Solo Wing Pixy)
Philosophizing ahead, be warned.
Mercy, Justice, and Retribution. A perfect balance of all three, tailored for each individual case, is the ideal I believe any and all justice systems should strive for.
Forgiveness, trust, and rehabilitation is all well and good -in fact it's been proven to drastically reduce recidivism (the tendency of a criminal to reoffend)- but the public and the offender also need to see 'justice' be carried out. Consequences for unacceptable actions taken with deliberate forethought must be seen to be carried out, else you run the risk of losing the moral authority to punish or reward any. As well as the danger of treating your citizens like the spoiled children of the rich and powerful, never making them face real consequences for their actions. We see how that turns out all the time in the real world in the news and tabloids.
If you decide that a person's evil deeds are not their fault because of a troubled history or personal reasons or motives, you could eventually end up as a pure moral relativist. There is no "good" or "evil" only what we think is good or evil, with no actual meaning besides whatever the winner believes. If someone's evil is not their fault because they were driven to it by their circumstances, you remove their agency -the fact that they at some point made the choice to do this- and therefore neither is anyone's good. We all simply become cogs in the machine, following the same chain of cause-and-effect fated since the Big Bang.
As an atheist/agnostic myself I'm not trying to say "Y'all need God, he's the only true moral guide, etc." I'm just saying that choosing to not blame wrong-doers for their actions can lead you down the path of moral relativism. You need to treat the offenders as free agents themselves, possessing free-will and the ability to choose. Take the extenuating circumstances, evidence, and context into account, of course! Temper their punishments with what mercy they deserve.
But, there was still a choice they made. If that choice led to the conscious harm of others through their actions (or inaction), there must be at least some consequences and retribution, even if only to show that there are consequences.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" - Abraham Lincoln
8661598
Yeah, to be honest, this struck me as an AU Celestia because of the sheer level of contempt and arrogance involved. It seemed like the attitude and throat-lift were basically saying "By the way, I'm more powerful than all of you put together, so I can do whatever I want and there's nothing you can do about it."
The Blueblood in this story was pretty fun and interesting
8662413
Celestia's point is that retribution inherently has no place in justice. The goal of justice is to set things right, and satisfying the victim's schadenfreude -- however provoked -- works against that.
This isn't a question of moral relativism, because whether or not the villain had psychological excuses doesn't actually matter beyond stopping it from happening again; ultimately only healing matters, and obviously the victims first, but the offender should be part of that if willing and able. Reconciliation is optimal, restitution is the next best thing, imprisonment is a last resort. I'd even say Celestia would be willing to kill an opponent if there was no way to take them in safely (she didn't shed any tears when Twilight and Spike killed Sombra). But ultimately retribution is just a flowery way to say petty vengeance, and not only does it just cause more problems down the road, but it can actively blind the vengeful to a better solution, as it did for these nobles who wanted to retroactively punish people who had already reformed and saved the entire country. She even spells out here that execution -- the ultimate retribution -- is an act of such inherent hatred that it attracts windigoes, which is about as plain as nature is ever going to spell things out for them.
As many problems as I had with her general aggression before she starts getting around to the message, it's a very Celestia message.
Personal headcanon, I like to think Celestia is speaking from more personal experience than she's willing to go into when she gives messages like that. She's old enough that she's probably a) gone Biblical a few times, and b) lived long enough afterward to see it bite her in the arse later on down the line. Sometimes stuff like that takes a solid generation before it has the means to boil back over, and it's not always apparent to leaders of normal lifespan.
8662430
Honestly, I can even see her having that contempt. She's just also, you know, a thousand-plus-year-old diplomat and is probably going to either keep a lid on it or be more creative in expressing it. The plushie did that beautifully. Shouting and choke-lift, not so much.
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Indeed. Plus, with Discord, her reasoning is just... twisted.
She blamed everyone for his betrayal. She implies it's their fault, the ponies present, that he betrayed Equestria, rather than putting the blame at his feet. That's neither fair nor makes sense.
And after her conduct, I don't believe her when she said she cared for everyone either. Be a villain? Forgiveness! Mention Nightmare Moon? How dare you! Her whole behaviour undermines her points.
I'm just left shaking my head and questioning her senses more than ever.
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Seems to me this Celestia is more angry at ponies questioning her than villains abusing her subjects.
That's not a flattering picture.
Always nice to see a story where Blueblood isn't a cardboard punching bag. But overall this story doesn't deliver very much. Celestia's portrayal in particular seems a poor fit. You have her being grumpy in a way that doesn't add to the story, and then you inform us that she's great, rather than showing us that she's great. Which would have been much better accomplished by portraying her straight: calm, collected and quietly amused, amidst accusers who imagine her playing directly into then plan, only to have it fall flat because they didn't see where it was going and she did. Instead they just kind of drop it when threatened with legal action based on a statement that somebody just happened to make, in order to give you an excuse to end it.
The story has a mediocre delivery, and it seems to mostly just be a setup for a couple jokes you wanted to make.
8662594
Good points. Celestia wins the discussion by author fiat and threats rather than because she has the better arguments.
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I accept any and all constructive criticisms. I am not even close to being perfect, and I do not consider myself a good author. I am always willing to learn. I will take all your comments into account when writing in the future, and I just wanted to offer this general message of thanks for your honesty.
awesome to see something form you. And congrats on the feature.
I wish Glimmer had been executed
8662688
Troo, troo, i'm with you on that. Nothing but pure fucking insane evil in that mare.
8661252
Plus can you call it "Lèse-majesté" when the offended monarch in question has tried coup d'etat on the other part of the Diarchy twice?
8662857
My headcanon about Celestia has her unreasonably protective of Luna due to a millennium of sheer loneliness.
No.
All right I'll be straight from the get-go. This is a fix-fic. You're trying to insert your own thinking as to why or how a certain character would respond to some common fan-claims. It's so blatantly obvious at that too. In all honesty I wouldn't have been bothered by it if you were adequately hiding it. But having read earlier fics of yours, plus Reality Check's "Would it matter if I was?" fix-fic... this makes it hard to ignore.
Let's start first things first... this wasn't a court. This didn't feel anything like a court, and Celestia acted like a downright bully in this ((the grabbing by the neck wouldn't have been allowed in any court)). Of course I'm not forgetting that generally speaking Equestria lives under a benevolent autocracy but this doesn't really matter. There were no laywers, no procedure, no nothing. The nobles acted like rabid brony fanboys that yell "ugh too many reformz... is none gonna get punized? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE". They displayed no eloquence and lost their temper far too easy.
You know... I get it. Generally speaking I'm all in for reform and understand that the world of humans operates differently than the world of ponies. There's no use to say anything against Celestia's reformation process because 90% of the time it works. There's no point in discussing about vindication or mob justice because those things are shown not to work/be accepted in pony society.
However if we're allowed to say anything about putting human problems and human thinking in fictional societies...
If you're by any kind of stretch implying that this would is the ideal way or that it would fly in the human world you're sorely mistaken. For the latter we simply aren't ready for it and doubtful that this is how one should be forgiven. For the former...
Well one of the main reasons the law exists is to satisfy the main concept of "cause and consequence". X character did a bad thing? They must atone, they must make ammend and repair. They must be offered the chance to change. The problem isn't that these characters should get punished or whatnot... it's that they get out scot-free without anyone being bothered by it. It's fine if villains are forgiven, but it's not fine if their sins are forgotten! To forget the sins of Starlight Glimmer ((just like her village did when she was invited back in)) is to forego character progress and development. It would be like us people today not learning why the people in ancient times failed... thus being doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
Another problem is that this fic assumes that the legal equivalent of punishment equates to an amount of time spent in prison, that amount being proportionate to the vindicative attitude of the populus. This of course is mostly... a human-like model. Or perhaps you assume that the punishment system revolves around something like middle-ages and whatnot. This of course is what most fans think, and as I said it's blatantly apparent you're trying to counter that argument.
I'm not going to delve into this issue much more. I'm simply going to say that while prison is commonly thought to be as a "place to hold bad people away from society" it's simply not that. It may function like that, but it doesn't work like that. Prison is "supposed" to be like a reformation institute that in the modern human era has been corrupt and abused. I'm talking from for-profit prisons to prisons abused by corporations for the purpose of low-cost manpower.
Tl;dr
This fic was you speaking out loud and is better suited as a blogpost in a political forum. Dislike
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8662785
What the actual fuck is wrong with you two?
8662932
Your honesty is appreciated. I am sorry that you felt the story was not enjoyable.
I was not trying to apply human thought to any of this. I was trying to put what I felt was Celestia's mindset on the whole thing into words. In your eyes, I failed at this.
8660864
They were all sick with the dangerous disease "Convenentia plotis". It only makes regular characters sick but is lethal to the parents of Disney heroes.
What I'm saying is that the movie was bad.
This is the only part I have an issue with, since all the signs in the episode point to Stygian going behind the Pillars' backs to do what he did and not breathing a word of it to them. The Pillars might have been overzealous, but you can hardly say their suspicions were unfounded.
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As for Starlight if the MLP mobile game it to be believed one of the "Storm Generals" was occupying Ponyville , Starlight was imprisoned and it took Trixie and the CMC the whole length of the movie to free Starlight and Ponyville. I like to think all the Equestrian allies had similar problems, having to route the Storm King's forces from their own lands, and by the time they where ready to backup Canterlot the Elements and Tempest already won. The guard could have been on maneuvers during the festival and like everyone else by the time they fought their way to Canterlot the Storm King was dead.
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That does lead us to the problem, however, of Celestia threatening one of Equestria's elected representatives with something she herself established as illegal just minutes before.
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Well, I'm not disliking this or anything. It's not bad, and I'm sorry if it seemed like that's all I was saying.
It's.... more like there are two different story concepts smooshed together. One where Celestia was, frankly, bullying the Noble Court, apparently as a result of her feeling their questions were a waste of her time. Then the second one, which seemed more in-character for someone who appeals to her subjects' trust and is supposed to come across as a benevolent chess master who shouldn't have to resort to petty insult and physical violence.
I mean, look at the two quotes above. They're directly contradictory.
Me, I would have loved if the story had more of the Celestia from the latter half. Then it wouldn't be so strange for her to ask them for their trust if she hadn't shown just how much contempt she has for them and their, in my opinion quite valid, concerns. I want to like this Celestia. Especially since you did such a wonderful job with Blueblood, as others pointed out.
This was a really well-written fanfic. Have a like and a favorite!
But for cryin' out loud, why do the Equestrian nobility have to be such jerks?!
8663120
That sounds like a way more interesting plot than anything that the movie gave us. Wow... and I though the fact that they had a crew of SKY PIRATES cower before the most boring piece of pseudo-scary crap in pony shape and Twilight regressing to pre-season 1 mindstates was bad. God forbid we saw something interesting, like a desperate last stand by the guard, Celestia and Luna preparing a resistance, Trixie and Starlight fighting for freedom or AN AIRSHIP BATTLE THAT I WAS SO FRIKKING EAGER TO SEE! They had SKY PIRATES AND WE DIDN'T GET AN AIRSHIP BATTLE BECAUSE THEY HAD TO COWER BEFORE THE DUMB NON-SCARY STUPOR PONY! ARGHH!
How do you mess that up? SKY PIRATES!