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Tim, Tim, Tim, Tim, Tim. Wrong choice bucko wrong choice. You needed to talk to Citrus and Cayenne about this, your longing for home and the issues with the society you are now in. I’ve got a bad feeling about this, and when it is all said and done Cadance needs to be called out as well.
*facepalm* shitstorm has been sighted, awaiting fucked up to commence.
I fully expect a blackboard high enough to reach Canterlot City from the bottom of the mountain.
Upon it shall be wrote: "I will not mess with sexual chemistry intoxicants to slip humans lust poison." In font size six.
COMIC SANS.
Sigh. Well, it was such a pleasant and interesting story. Not really a fan of how you've portrayed and used Twilight in this, and the latest chapter just makes it oh so worse all around the board. Meh. Not to mention that there's pretty much zero respect given to Twilight from anyone except Tim. And that includes herself.
Cadence, Twilight, and Citrus all have to sit down and talk this out.
Twilight is over stepping, and Citrus is stonewalling.
My guess is that Citrus feels threatened by Twilight, due in part to her being a princess.
Unfortunately Twilight's actions are only going to make her position worse, and hurt her chances of ever being part of the herd.
Just in time for Cadance to walk in the room and break things up!
rape is wrong, and has no excuse... i do believe this story needs a [Dark] tag now...
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Pretty sure the pheromones she was talking about were from her heat. She was surprised that he was affected by them.
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Let's also note that if said hormones were working that well on him...
...Twilight also happens to be human at that point. So she's managed an unholy hybrid of cross-species chemistry by dunking herself in her already heat-addled body into a form that's even more vulnerable to the results of a cloud of pony horny hormones. While dealing with mental gymnastics regarding a member of the same species.
Of course, this is Twilight "what could possibly go wrong with undoing a thousand-year old seal?" Sparkle. She puts the "mad" into "mad science", chemistry included.
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He was being affected pretty heavily before she changed, pretty much as soon as he got near her, and she hadn't been expecting him to be there. She didn't science up some weird sex drugs. Not saying that Twilight didn't go way too far, but the pheromones weren't her conscious doing.
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She doesn't really go full derp until the shapeshift, though. She's been rearranging her body repeatedly with magic, hybridizing pony and human DNA while in a hormonal stew.
Horndog and immense hornpower do not mix. Mind you, with the right application it'd also have made a very happy herd, but this is "She Blinded Me With
ScienceMagic".Well, Crap!! Good story so far. I hope he will be able to impregnate them. Maybe make it so that since he is absorbing magic, it is slowly changing his DNA so he can impregnate mares. I think that would be an excellent twist.
I like it! I totally seen this coming, well, not perfectly like this but close enough... To bad we dont get to see them do the deed.. I'd had loved that... Anyway Love the chapter glad to see this, so excited!
... I'll stick with this a bit longer to see if things get back to being happy.
*Sigh* This is one of those stories that make me think that Equestria is only on top of the political food chain because no one wants to risk messing with the sun and moon except for those that don't care or have a plan to take control of them themselves, because given the xenophobia running rampant in their capital city, I don't see how else they've survived as a nation given all abundance of other sapient species they share the planet with.
Also, god dammit Twi...or maybe we should blame Cadance? They both seem to be trying to gain the secondary title 'Princess of homewreckers' in this one.
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Now, now, Tim isn't really at fault for this one, and Twilight should get some slack, too--
Tim's, who's already strangely susceptible to pony pheromones, now not only has horny Twilight in front of him, but it's a horny Twilight putting off heat-level pony pheromones, probably human pheromones, and now has all the sexual characteristics he's hardwired to find attractive. There's willpower, and then there's trying to resist when every one of your buttons are being smashed repeatedly and with great vigor. It would take someone of godly constitution to turn away and be rational, and Tim's not a Marty Stu.
Meanwhile, it looks like Twilight's in heat. Now, I don't know how bad heats might be for a sophant (sp?) species, but considering how just being horny can fuck up our thought process, and how little experience Twilight probably has with situations like this, I'm not surprised she's literally throwing herself at Tim, despite consciously knowing the amount of shit she's already in with Citrus and Cayenne.
In all honesty, I think the incoming shitstorm can be laid squarely at Cadence's hooves. You know, the Alicorn who's special talent is Romantic Love, and as such should have really, really known better than to pull this kind of shit?
this is gonna end so badly probably with twilight being a mother
I think you mean possible here.
I have to agree with Spacecowboy, not liking how Twilight's being portrayed. Really hope there's a good explanation for this, and you're not just writing her OOC for the whole story.
Well, this is pretty squarely Cadance's fault. Twilight took steps to prevent this exact thing from happening because she couldn't trust her self control, and Tim is both extremely lonely in a very specific sense and kind of out of it.
But Cadance knew what she was doing (or at least what she thought she was doing).
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Don't think he really had a choice here. Unless you meant before he went to Ponyville, then I agree.
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One of my main goals is to keep the characters....well...in character. For Twilight, there are two specific incidents that prove this is a continuation of her norm. Both her bringing back Starswirl in the season 7 finale, and her actions in seaquestria. Both establish that she can be exceedingly self centered, and not think about the natural consequences of her actions. Add in the fact that she's rather addled at the moment due to her heat.
For Cadance, she's doing what she can to bring two characters, that her Instincts say, are compatible with each other. Due to cultural differences, this does seem to be blowing up in her face. But the plans are being followed through on this.
My opinion here...just stick this out, this story is not sweetness and light to go with the candy colored pones. Their society is imperfect, so I'm exploring some of the faults (as I see them) of pony society. I do promise there is a satisfactory end to this story arc. And don't forget, the Grand Galloping Gala is coming. And where did I put that griffon?
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I'm not adverse to drama, I just don't like OOC characters for the sake of drama. I guess you have a point, but I'd call those examples isolated rather than a part of her character overall. Plus, you'd think someone like her would learn from those mistakes, especially since they happened not too far apart.
The heat thing is good enough for me, though. I had an inkling, just wasn't completely sure.
This is going to eat Tim from inside out, and there goes the trust and affection...
wow the crap is going to hit the fan when Tim makes it back home.
we all know he will come clean about it.
and i think Twilight and cadence is going to have a hole bunch of explaining to do.
i am interested in how this is going to play out.
will the new heard brake up over this?
how much shit did Tim get his ass in over this?
i am betting the punishment is going to be harsh if the heard lets him stay.
a vary good chapter with super interesting happenings going on.
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Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around, not to mention the circumstances of the situation just adding fuel to the fire. I suppose Cadance's powers of Romance Detection could be off since she's supposed to be fixing up pony relationships, not pony-human. The problem here being he's human and thus has a different set of variables. Sure, they're close to a pony's but the same can be said when comparing apples to oranges.
Like everyone else commenting, there's gonna be a trainwreck very soon. How bad remains to be seen.
I'd also like to point out that this story has remained true to it's origins, forcing our little human to stumble and realize he's not on Earth any more and there's a whole new set of societal "norms" that occasionally clash with his own (Tropical Dream's comment about the junior stallion being the latest). What happens when a mare outside the herd tries to seduce a stallion? I don't know, but we're gonna find out.
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Thanks, Closet! I'm thrilled you're enjoying the story and it'd be awesome to keep hearing from you. What's in the story is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the language goes. I'm contemplating coming up with a grammar and a short dictionary for Pone to make it a proper conlang.
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pbs.twimg.com/media/C5dtDlPWcAE3P2O.jpg
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Think of it as another chance to see another aspect of pony society and culture that may just get glossed over in another story. But yes, the happy days will come again.
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Wait for the next chapter, or head over to Patreon and read it now! LOL
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Her behavior, and more importantly in the larger picture, the sheer lack of respect given to her from other characters (or even herself!) is what gets underneath my skin. You are making a mountain out of a molehill through behavior that is shown to be an extreme trait of hers that does not come up all that often, if you're trying to stick to the show. The only real 'extreme' provided to us to even back this up is the whole 'Want-It-Need-It' incident, and since you show she is a princess in the story, she has matured and grown past the point of sinking into such a trap.
The lack of respect part... I mean, really. Tim brings it up at the start of the chapter, and Twilight is disparaged. Heavily. Even though she's a princess? It's kind of smelly to me. Then, the entire situation is being bungled, and not even Twilight seems capable of giving herself to self-respect we've seen her have in the show. It's... getting ugly and disgusting, to be blunt about it.
It's fine to make a romantic issue with Twilight (Though I'm past tired of her being shat on, which is what's happening here) as part of the story, but the how is where I find issue with it.
Oh now I'm extremely curious to see what is going to happen. Personally I believe Tim dun goofed HARD, such is my vision on Loyalty.
But I have not been taken from my world and neither have I spent months dealing with missing those things I took for granted in my home. Nor am I being confronted with those same things I missed dearly in someone I want to be allowed to embrace and love. While inserted in a culture that allows and encourages polygamy. So, you know, YMMV.
Still anxious for the next chapter, though
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We're not taking an epic dump on bookhorse. She's a source of conflict and tension, not because someone must be designated as a villain, but because every time she shows up, drama follows. Whether turning Tim into a pony, or trying to poach him away from his herd repeatedly, or uncovering things from Tim's past that exacerbate his mourning the loss of his former life and sense of isolation, from the point of view of the herd, especially Citrus, she's bad news. Tim doesn't hate her, and she has done him some good, such as helping him learn about their customs and become overall more integrated in his new home. Citrus is a rather traditional mare, and given that plus how she cared for Tim for so long and how meetings with Twilight frequently end with him in some kind of bad way or other, she's understandable for not liking her. Also, don't forget that ponies like Moondancer and Trixie have gotten along poorly with Twilight even after her gaining princesshood. In fact, being princess does seem to cause royals more problems than it provides perks, as she, Cadance, Luna, and Celestia have all lamented at one moment or other. Also, in the EQG films, Twilight has been shown developing crushes and being quite impulsive in pursuing them, even if they may not have been very good matches at all (Everfree and everything in it with Timber is just no). Twilight isn't usually the bad guy, even in this story, and there are bigger and better plans for her later on.
Tim is shown to mutually like her back, and they do have a relationship built on some degree of mutual interest and empathy. She has routinely acted in his best interests and done her best to help him adjust to Equestria, and when she has done wrong, she's apologized and made ammends. This isn't alien brain worm shipping where characters want to bang because brain worm parasites tell them to. The side story here is also exploring another facet of polyamory, that just being polyarmorous doesn't mean endless trysts and additions to a harem / group / arrangement. She was initially slated to join the herd, but I actually vetoed that idea, partially to be able to explore this aspect of relationships in the story, partially to avoid a stereotypical protagonist getting all the mares scenario, and partially so as to not dilute too much focus from the core cast. This way, we get a glimpse as to what happens when not everyone who wants to play can play, as well as what are Equestrian reactions and mores in the face of infidelity.
We also haven't featured her being malicious. If anything, it's a miracle that her magic experimentations with Tim haven't done any real harm. The worst we're depicting her as are just short-sighted, horny, and selfish, like anyone can be. If you want proof that she's capable of being accidentally, casually uncaring to even those she knows and cares for, just look at how often her treatment of Spike uncomfortably resembles slavery instead of something familial. She's behaving like someone who hasn't yet figured out properly how to express feelings appropriately, has cultural expectations telling her to go out and win over her love interest, enhanced hormones screaming at her to get flooded like New Orleans, and a position of authority that puts her above legal reproach and more or less entitles her to do as she pleases. Being a princess makes it so that generally, yes, anyone she propositioned would be massively pressured into wanting to accept, not just because of the enormous prestiege in being with a princess, but also because of all the fringe benefits and potential dangers of saying no and angering her.
In her position, she's just looking for a quick bit of relief; nobody needs to be told, she'll be able to gather new, unparaleled data about humans, and she'll be able to express her feelings of longing and affection for Tim. Everything else in the situation, other than a conscience that's drowned in hormones and works differently anyway from ours due to her different cultural background, is screaming at her to do it.
A core part of her attraction to Tim is an intellectual one; he's exotic, different, new. I'm saying that if there were a pony just the same in personality as Tim, odds are she would never have been interested in him. As was said, she's generally just not impressed by stallions and would rather be studying. The fact that Tim is a person she can also study cinches a sweat deal where she can pursue interest in a male she likes while not having to skip out on work. And from looking at her crushes in the EQG films, her threshold for being interested in a guy is pretty low, and once she's smitten, she's struck hard.
What would you have us do to improve her character?
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There's one aspect of Citrus' dislike of Twilight you haven't touched on here. Let's call it the "Kate Moss / Giselle Bundchen effect." Higher status mare comes in, lower status mare gets kicked out, or at a minimum in pony culture, demoted to second banana. Citrus has already lived through a herd falling apart once when her dad left. Now she sees the shadow of the same thing looming over everything she has built up.
I mean think about it. What could Citrus possibly offer beyond what she already has to keep Tim satisfied and away from somepony with the intelligence, status, power, and beauty of Princess Twilight Sparkle, Princess of Friendship, Element of Magic, Savior of Equestria, etc. etc.? Must be absolutely terrifying.
WRT the lack of respect, right now Twilight is in the grip of her heat. She hasn't gotten laid in years, most likely. Sure, she's really coming on strong, but she's not preventing Tim from getting up and leaving, and some guys like assertive women. However, I fully expect her to feel very guilty when her head clears up.
Heh. I can see the scene now. Twilight crying, saying she is sorry. Tim with his head down, feeling bad about cheating. Starlight bow-beating both of them. And dancing, skipping around all three, just being a general nuisance, Cadance singing over and over about how she was right all along!
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Here's hoping...
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....is it sorta cruel of me to wanting Cadence for getting a 'you suck' speech from Tim herd? I mean granted what Tim and Twilight did isn't good...but in a sense, she started this whole drama thing that cause him to notice Twilight like that, if I recall right in the story so far.
This was a pretty head-on chapter, wasn't it?
Xenophobia and blatant sexism. It's almost like an extreme variation of our own society, except extreme!
I mean, this was visible pretty much right on the start, but now you've made it that it's immediately apparent.
That start, though... I get wanting to avoid drama, but Tim should stay his ground once in a while and not let Citrus win every argument - that way she will feel like she has the kind of control over him like she would over any stallion of a herd. That's obviously not what he wants.
She may not be doing it consciously - from what I read so far, the moment she realized how all this is affecting him, she'd freak out big-time.
Communication is important. Keeping it all bottled in is one of the things which led to the ending of this chapter, as Twi was able to capitalize on what only she knew.
Also, Luna was telling her of Tim's dreams? Isn't that a breach of confidentiality or something? It wasn't something life-threatening, so I don't see why that detail would have to be shared by a 3rd party.
Hoo boy, this just got a whole lot messier.
I wonder how will Citrus and the rest of the herd react the moment they learn about this (well, others might not really mind as Twi's a princess), and when Tim inevitably breaks and tells everyone exactly how everything is affecting him.
That's going to be one hell of a wake-up call.
Fitting into a society can be hard, but it could be downright impossible if you have to change the very core of who you are. And since the gender roles are pretty much reversed here... yeah.
Drama incoming! And, for once, I'm actually looking forward to it.
Shit...Twilight has committed an act of rape. In a world, where mares are dominant, ponies are more willing to believe that mares are raping stallions rather than the other way around. Coupled with her status in society, she could get away with it. This is really bad.
And so the challenge for lead mare begins
Frankly I don't mind that Twilight has too work for her place in a herd and for the affection and love of others. she's far from perfect and she can make bad decisions when under stress. Just look at the disaster she made with the hippogriphs, her home invaded and lurching from one disaster to another with her friends making questionable decisions that lead too the next disaster. "I'm looking at you Dashie, announcing your presence with a freaking rain boom.
I see Twily trying in her own adorkable way. It's indeering and charming and the drama well it's going to be fun for us outsiders.. But for the characters it's going to be hell. But I'm sure things will work out for all involved.
Been following this fic for a while now, and for the most part, I could excuse the flaws. But this chapter... Twilight is so ridiculously OOC that it's approaching deal-breaker territory. She has a complete lack of self respect, and is portrayed as nothing more than a cock-hungry homewrecker towards the end. I'll probably read the next chapter, but if it's more of the same then this fic will be getting dropped from email updates.
Twilight in this chapter: Luckily, Tim, I'm much sluttier than your herdmates are.
Tim and several readers: -____________________________-;
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It's not just Twilight who's OOC here. Cadance (at least the version we see in the show) would never try to force a ship the way she has here with Tim and Twilight (especially if it turns out that she deliberately neglected to send Twilight's letter waving Tim off because of her estrus). That'd be an abuse of her power as the Princess of Love, and I'd like to think that her dear Auntie Celestia taught her better than that.
Incidentally, I'm getting kind of tired of the "Estrus makes mares into cock-hungry sluts" trope in this fandom, especially in HiE fics. It's cheap comedy, and not that dissimilar a mindset from "Women who dress provocatively deserve to be raped."
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Ah, dissatisfied customers. Do be aware that, yes, this going to come back to bite Twilight and Cadance, and "I'm a princess" or "I was just so horny" excuses are not gonna fly. This is all in service of story and character development, as well as further exploration of the familial customs of Equestria.. How Twilight be handled better? It's been built up for a long time that she really likes Tim for understandable reasons, doesn't have the best emotional maturity, and now, with raging hormones and a perfect chance to act, it's really no surprise she's making a move.
There will be sequences with the mares in heat later, and no, the other mares are not going to behave like Twilight. They're a sentient species with ideas like impulse control and responsibility. What's being demonstrated here is sexual misbehavior as well as its consequences. Sparky has been putting a lot of forethought into this story, and this isn't just to get some cheap porn.
P.S.: Jimbo, that clip SLEW me!
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I have to echo the sentiments, myself. The story tackling the subjects involved also isn't the issue.
The underlying problem presented here is more a result of how ludicrously difficult getting this situation foreshadowed and prepared really is. At present, it is coming on too strong and too sudden to flow along. In the interest of length, it is possible that was somewhat inevitable if it hadn't been layered in more strongly in the previous showings of Twilight's interactions.
It is possible that a little more coverage of how estrus impacts a mare being presented ahead of this point would have alleviated much of it. The same in regards to the idea that Tim is possibly unusually sensitive to estrus pheremones (reason irrelevant), which in turn leaves him far more vulnerable to acting atypically as in this.
Generally speaking, it's just a very difficult situation to get prepared for the reader to enter. Either way, it's done.
The critical part now is the aftermath.
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I see, thanks for saying. The story has been building up Twiley's desire for Tim for a long time, and she's hit on him almost every single time they've been written together. It was also said back in chapter 12 that she deliberately spent last heat shut off from him so she wouldn't run this risk. I don't know really how we could have foreshadowed better. I'm guessing it would help to use stronger foreshadowing in the chapter(s) immediately before a big plot point if it's going to be a stretch to sell it? Anyhooz, first there's gonna be clop, then the aftermath, which is going to stretch over a couple chapters. I guess if there's a "rock bottom" in this story, it's gonna be the next few chapters.
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Sometimes, knowing when to be heavy-handed in hinting is the challenge of the art. It is difficult to balance subtle versus overt hints. Too subtle, a reader is obviously getting taken by surprise. Too overt, you aren't leaving anything as a surprise at all.
You also have the annoying conundrum where the author knows exactly how things are going to play out. What might at times seem subtle to the author ends up being lost in the noise to the readers. I struggle with this a fair bit myself. In so many ways, this is one of the very things it is extremely important to have additional eyes looking a story over. You simply won't notice some things.
Personally, I am working on a story where the majority is told from a single character's perspective. In doing so, the reader is led along the same awareness of said character, except in moments and scenes where other characters are being presented in moments the primary character would have no knowledge of. I'm slowly learning how to balance the two methods, but it took a long time to realize the shortcomings inherent to restricting perspective to one character's point of view entirely.
In the same sense, it might help to consider asking a few questions from a reader's perspective and analyzing the story from there. Perhaps laying out what intentions are in a scene, then switching your mindset to the other side of the window, where you haven't gotten your hands on what is on display and have to guess about connections. I've found it very hard to get my head around when I try to do this, but it usually results in some additional perspective that I had been missing. Most of the time, I only get this by hearing from a completely different set of eyes. On more than one occasion, a friend who does editing for me has completely changed my grasp of a scene by taking things in a way I never even fathomed was a possible interpretation.
Overall, Herding Instincts isn't perfect, but it retains a unique flavor in the read that keeps me coming back for more.
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This is the best comment I have ever seen.
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Well, thank you so much. And I was a bit worried about how things came across with how things have escalated. So I farmed out the chapter to several pre-readers, trying to get that perspective that you are talking about. I know this story intimately and know what's coming up. You, and the other readers, do not. So I really do try to keep foreshadowing be subtle, but not too subtle. I will keep my eyes open and try to look at it from the readers perspective.
That being said, I do try to keep the story interesting and exciting, so not everything will be foreshadowed. Because things do come out of nowhere from time to time. The idea behind this arc has been very much foreshadowed, it's been quite obvious that Twi has a crush on him, and her actions, I believe, are well within her character. I'm not trying to put heat as "I'm gonna be a homewrecker" but more along the lines of she's got an immense amount of pressure going on, and Tim showing up is opening the steam valve. Remember, the object of her affections. One that she thought was back in Canterlot, just shows up. That clouds everything in her mind. And yes, it's quite obvious that Cadance is helping things along.
One thing I'm trying to portray in this story is that the ponies are not human, nor do they think like humans do. Cadance, Twilight, Citrus, and others are in their culture, Tim is different by their points of view. He isn't going to react as they expect. Cadance would have expected Tim to approach Citrus on the addition of Twilight and give her the opportunity to court the herd properly. And she felt that this action would help push them closer. She doesn't understand humans fully, neither do the rest. Tim doesn't understand the ponies fully, but all of them are trying.
And yes, as Kalash has said, this is pretty much the low point for the story. But, stick around, you might like how things are concluded in this arc, and how things progress to future chapters, and I really do appreciate the compliment at the end there.
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I fully intend to keep reading. I kept going with My Filly, Nightshine despite when Abyss tripped up with something that feels like a heavy violation of the rule of law. Apart from that hiccup, it's still a fun read.
This might be taken the wrong way, but I happen to appreciate seeing moments where the message doesn't come across as smoothly as might be desired. As a writer myself, I find this valuable to come across. It lets the mind assess and consider how things might have been improved by doing a different step here or there.
As for Herding Instincts though... Let's just say I'm looking forward to the way things change when Citrus and Tim finally register how far apart their deeper expectations actually are, no matter how much they care about each other. Also tempted to smack Tim upside the head a little for not realizing he needs to tell Citrus how much he misses Earth and other humans like he did with Twilight, and Citrus for failing to see how much never getting to go home is weighing on Tim.
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Huh... so in this chapter, "in character" is a Twilight Sparkle that is a manipulative and selfish creature, solely seeking to take something that has been repeatedly denied not just once, but several times, and in both polite and professional ways from all parties involved. You know, the Princess of Friendship or some junk, amirite? Your rationalization for her doing this is:
"Oh! Well uh... she's in heat! Yeah that's it! And uh... like she had a few crazy moments in the show... so uh yeah, that's totally why it's okay she's gonna trick him into cheating on his significant others, even though Tim said he doesn't want to have sex, and like it's totally in character or something."
I mean, keep doing what you are doing for this story, it's fine and I'm still going to read it. There are a lot of dark or alt/U Twilight Sparkles in fan-fiction that do all this and worse. I would however refrain from calling it "in character", because I'm betting the majority consensus of your readers would disagree.
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I'll just direct you to a previous comment I made addressing this:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/349678/herding-instincts#comment/8543135
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Your comment aside, my opinion still stands, she wasn't in character in this chapter. There is nothing wrong with it being out of character either, plenty of fanfics are, especially when they you heats to justify things, as I'm pretty sure estrus cycles aren't show canon. My core of my comment is that the author is going to have a really hard time trying to convince me that that Twilight was in character here. I know you tried to rationalize this chapter in your comment, but even then, it still doesn't hold water in my opinion.
Princess of loooove, indeed. I know she was trying to help but she's potential caused a situation were someone could die. Tim's at the ragged edge here hell if this goes bad he could become suicidal.
Tim takes a moment to discribes what some of the older human laws say about adultery too Cadance. That ought to shock her, make realize that she's potentially playing with fire. Or how much of alien viewpoint Tim has.....
Am I making any goddamned sense?