• Member Since 13th Oct, 2013
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Jordan179


I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.


T

This story is a sequel to Getting Stuck


NOT in the "Shadow Wars" continuity, though it does use that continuity as backstory. Specifically, it would if in main continuity be set in Season 4 with all Shadow Wars.assumptions including most specifically Luna's and Twilight's past lives and Pinkie Pie's previous identity in the G3 universe (on which I was inspired by Alex Warlorn) as part of the backstory.

When a human who fell to Equestria through a dimensional portal rapes a citizen of Ponyville, Princess Twilight Sparkle is uncertain of how to handle the case, so she writes to Princess Celestia for advice. The following exchange of letters details that consultation.

Warning: this story is a very-unauthorized sequel to a rather nasty second-person story, NOT written by myself, which seems to be based on the premise that raping those caught at a disadvantage is unobjectionable. I do not endorse any of the opinions expressed in the prior work.

Note Well: The "romance" in the story doesn't involve the Human. Well, not the romance that I expect most readers to find warm and fuzzy, anyway.

Chapters (5)
Comments ( 211 )

"Luna says that she'd like to spray singularities into any culture which has standards under which Yu's actions are reasonable."

You and me both, Your Most Serene Highness.

I was going to write a story like this, only set in a courteoom, and Celestia being the judge.

It would have half the Mane Six acting as the commentors on Stuck, and the other being the author. I've prepared myself for downvotes galore.

Comment posted by Jordan179 deleted Mar 12th, 2014

4069616

In the letters from Celestia and Luna, Celestia is more or less arguing my logical analysis, Luna my emotions on the incident. Not that Luna isn't capable of sweet reason, it's just that she's really angry about this having happened to one friend of hers and becoming the responsibility of another friend of hers to deal with. And she's the more passionate one of the two sisters, anyway.

Does anyone care about Charlie Yu's further fate?

if he is either sent to prison or something else, than no.

4069683

Well, I don't think he's getting an invitation fo the next Grand Galloping Gala. Right now, something involving prison or expulsion as an "undesirable alien" (in both senses of both words) seem likely. Princess Luna probably has harsher ideas, but she won't inflict them against her sister's orders, so ...

Ah yes, that story. I didn't read the actual work because I find rape utterly repulsive, but the comments section was a fascinating study in socio-psychology. I hope that author is merely a troll of revolting levels who delights in getting people riled up, and not a socially stymied individual who seriously believes that this is how the world works. Sometimes the world can scare you.

Story-wise, a fascinating read. I don't entirely subscribe to your ponies' idealistic worldview, but it is an interesting perspective. The story flowed pretty well and incorporated the 'original events' fairly truthfully, I assume. I was a bit surprised that the letter didn't include a transcription of Charlie Yu's own statements on the events - both for fairness sake and to give him more rope to hang himself with, if you catch my drift.

This story was probably more enjoyable than the original.

4069683 Personally, I think he should atone by making himself useful to the community. Sweet Apple Acres is a cornerstone of the local economy, and those trees require an awful lot of fertilizer. How much did Charlie Yu weigh, you think?

4069804

I don't entirely subscribe to your ponies' idealistic worldview

Heh ... which ones? I directly presented long segments of Twilight's, Celestia's and Luna's opnions, and short snippets of Pinkie's and Spike's. (There was also by implication some of Rainbow's in there -- she just wanted to start hitting Charlie Yu, but Twilight restrained her because Yu was no loner resisting).

Twilight thinks that what Yu did was repulsive and is trying to avoid being too graphic in describing an event she considers disgusting, while still explain enough to discuss rationally how it should be legally handled. Twilight is a bit prudish, and the very idea of casual sex bothers her, let alone of someone so depraved that they would just start mounting a random mare they found stuck in a bush. She despises Charlie Yu, which I think shows through her rather prim description of the situation. She takes far too much pleasure in describing the parts where Charlie gets injured, which is the giveaway.

Celestia thinks that what Yu did was morally repulsive, but could be argued as rape or consensual sex in a court of law. Celestia isn't prudish at all, though she still finds Yu's actions disgusting because she (correctly) pegs him as a callous and exploitative being who has done great and unprovoked harm to an innocent and is too stupid to even realize why this has landed him in trouble. She's mostly worried now about how Yu has hurt her ponies and in particular she also wants to make sure that Twilight and her friends are not tempted to deal extra-legally with Yu: she fears the temptation to darkness.

Luna -- who is a little bit prudish but in her very long life has seen and done much more than has Twilight Sparkle -- utterly despises Yu not only for his dishonorable and immoral treatment of Derpy but also for the harm he did to her friend. She considers Derpy a sweet and innocent mare who is far too trusting. Luna is trying to control her impulses to straight out teleport into Ponyville and cut Charlie into teeny weeny pieces. She also loves Twilight Sparkle and is bothered that Twilight should have to deal with this crap: she'd much rather spend time with her very old friend (*) getting to know one another again.

Pinkie Pie -- who in some ways is very idealistic and innocent -- was utterly horrified when she realized what Charlie had done to Derpy. Remember, Pinkie is pretty much friends with everypony in Ponyville, and Derpy is one of the ones she sees a lot because of Derpy's very public occupation as a mailmare. Derpy's and Pinkie's senses of life are also not that dissimilar in many ways: both are unabashed hedonists where parties are concerned, for instance. The fact that Charlie had been professing an attraction to herself, coupled with what he'd done to Derpy, revolted Pinkie even further.

Spike has a simple and uncompromising view of life. There are good beings, who can be divided into his friends and acquaintances (whom he sees as "his hoard," socially speaking) and those who might become his friends and acquaintances. Then there are bad beings, who should be opposed, violently if appropriate to the situation. He's not sorry about hurting Charlie because he likes Charlie; he's sorry about hurting Charlie because he feels he let Celestia and Twilight down -- and he knows that self-control will be vital as he grows larger and larger. He's had a taste of losing that self-control, in "Secret of My Excess," and the thought frightens him.

Rainbow Dash's emotions are very direct here. "He raped my old friend and then pretended to be her coltfriend only to then publicly dump her in the most humiliating way possible? Oh, he's going down!" Rainbow Dash's concepts of decency and morality are very simple, and mostly centered around sticking by those one loves. Or in short ... Loyalty.

Hmm, Charlie ... based on the story I took "Charlie Yu" from (he was an unnamed second-person POV character) ... I would imagine that his outlook on life is very self-centered and hedonistic, and with very little concern for anyone else's feelings. The relevant terms are "narcissist" and "borderline sociopath" -- I'm guessing he's not a complete sociopath because he spent time working for the Apples, and AJ would have seen through true sociopathy in a heartbeat.

Charlie will probably get worried and quite indignant when he realizes that he may be going up on trial for his freedom for what he considers the rather minor and forgivable action of treating a sweet and fairly innocent retarded mare as merely a sex organ attached to something vaguely and inconveniently sapient. He will also feel quite cruelly-judged when he realizes that pretty much everypony in town now despises him for his actions. (In a Human town, he'd have to worry about being lynched. Seriously).

My model for Charlie Yu is Clyde Griffiths, the protagonist (one can't really say "hero") of Theodore Dreiser's An American Weenie Tragedy," which I reviewed in this Livejournal post. Clyde Griffiths was also a borderline sociopath who wound up greatly harming someone for the crime of failing to be a mere walking female sex organ and vanishing when she became inconvenient to his existence.

In fact I could here draw a parallel between Pinkie Pie's role in "Stuck" and Sondra's in An American Tragedy --- both are very friendly and hedonistic females who however have sound moral principles, who are desired by the sociopathic protagonist. Pinkie is, however, a better judge of character than is the unfortunate Sondra, who winds up embroiled in Clyde's self-serving murderous actions. Derpy is luckier than Roberta -- Roberta winds up first pregnant and then dead due to Clyde's selfish actions. Derpy has merely had a terrible social experience which may or may not have legally constitute "rape."

I'm guessing that if I continue this story, Charlie Yu won't like what happens to him.

===

(*) One of Twilight's earlier incarnations, Dusk Skyshine, having been the husband and best friend of one of Luna's earlier incarnations, Moondreamer Finemare. Luna remembers this quite well, even though Twilight hasn't started to remember it yet.

4069826

I was actually thinking that he could pull a chariot. And Twilight Sparkle, unlike (the Amulet-addled version of) the Great and Powerful Trixie, does trust wheels. But nah, Twilight's just not that cruel.

I was also wondering if Charlie Yu would be stupid enough to mistake Fluttershy's attempt to be kind to him as a prisoner for a crush on her part, and what a really pissed-off Fluttershy might or might not say to him in such a situation. Remember, Fluttershy can if sufficiently upset cast a geas upon someone without fully realizing what she's doing.

Since cutting the throat of this illegitimate son of a diamond dog. My apologies to any diamond dog's reading this, is
1 only a momentary pleasure and
2 bound to get you talked about.
I think that the punishment used in another story might be used, castration and I think removal of equipment necessary to complete the act, without anesthetic, control of bleeding only.
This might be enough.
As to a spray of singularities, there must be a better way. That is after all, quite a nice planet that something else could use

Does anyone care about Charlie Yu's further fate?

Nah, let me imagine.

Ugh. The stuff that gets into the featured box sometimes is despicable.

4070003

So it seems like, instead of trying to present both sides of the argument from the comment section of "Stuck", you stuck with the one you thought was more correct. I can't complain, because everyone's entitled to do whatever it is they want, but you could've at least tried to touch upon it.

I am reasonably confident in saying this will be the best thing to come out of that whole execrable situation.

4070003 That's quite an elaboration on their viewpoints, and it's interesting to read, but that's not quite my point. I was more referring to your overall more higher-minded ideals of ponykind that are seen in your stories. You are having them refer to themselves as 'Daughters of Paradise' among other things, and have mentioned that Trixie is technically insane for being a self-centered loner. Not to say that my stories take place in cesspools of sin and depravity, I'm just saying that you set the bar higher.

Either way, their reactions are certainly not inappropriate here. Had I written the story, they would have acted pretty much the same way, no excuses. Rape is utterly inexcusable.

And joking about putting those proteins to better use aside, I don't think punishment by labor would help him. If he can't understand why he's being treated like a criminal in the first place, then he won't understand why he's being punished. Better to just have him removed from Equestria so he can't harm anypony else.

Or send him to Cloudsdale. Without a cloudwalking spell. To grossly paraphrase the original author's excuses, it's not murder. You're dropping him from a great height and he'll die from it, but whether or not it's murder is, well, a grey area.

4070137 Popularity is based on "heat". Extensive and rapid commenting generates "heat", I've been led to understand.

4070208
The number of people who upvoted it is reasonably high.

4070144

So it seems like, instead of trying to present both sides of the argument from the comment section of "Stuck", you stuck with the one you thought was more correct. I can't complain, because everyone's entitled to do whatever it is they want, but you could've at least tried to touch upon it.

That does bother me a bit, but I find it hard to grasp any non-despicable system of morality in which what he did to Derpy, given that we KNOW HIS INNER THOUGHTS AT THE TIME as to why his actions were acceptable.

Note, I'm not talking here about ethical promiscuity of the sort practiced by (say) Storm Front (the pegasus, not the Neo-Nazi organization) or the Winningverse Cloud Kicker. Either of them would have helped Derpy out of the bush and then possibly propositioned her (in the Winningverse, Derpy was in point of fact one of Cloud Kicker's many lovers). I don't actually despise either Storm Front or Winningverse Cloud Kicker, and if I were a pony in that universe would actually want to be Storm Front's friend, as she has a poetic though very strange soul.

I would have to look through the original story again -- and will if I add any more chapters to this story (which note I posted as "complete"). But IIRC Yu's basic thoughts were:

(1) Ponies go around naked and I can see their vaginas.

(2) Seeing their vaginas turns me on.

(3) I can see Pinkie Pie's vagina, which turns me on.

(4) Pinkie Pie isn't interested in me that way, which makes me frustrated.

(5) Going for a walk, I see -- a vagina! I cannot resist the vagina!

(6) I will have sex with this vagina, even though somepony seems to be on the other end of it.

(7) Now that I have had sex with this vagina, I will go away so I am not noticed.

(8) Oh no! The Pony attached to this vagina is following me around and calling me her "colt friend." Why won't she go away?

(9) Even worse! Now I'm trying to talk to Pinkie Pie and hoping she's changed her mind about letting me touch her vagina, and the previous vagina is right there!

(10) How embarrassing.

Now, can you explain to me how I can construct a coherent viewpoint of Yu's actions which do not characterize him as a malignant narcissist and borderline sociopath? At no point in-story did he show any awareness of or caring for Derpy Hooves as an individual sapient being rather than a flying vagina-creature; nor did he give any explanation of why he was sexually-attracted to Pinkie Pie. Nor could he think of any possible reason why Pinkie Pie might not return this desire other than species prejudice.

(Hint: Pinkie Pie is a person in her own right, with her own deeper emotions. Being hyper-friendly does not imply that she is some sort of community vagina-creature who should by rights be sexually available to all who ask for her services. Perhaps her ambition is to be loved by someone who values her as more than just a mass of cotton candy-colored fluff with a smile at one end and a vagina at the other?)

Now, I can think of reasons to find Pinkie Pie attractive. But they have more to do with her friendly and loving nature and her strong sense of fun than the fact that she has a vagina at one end of her body. Pinkie Pie would be a great friend and companion, though I don't know if I could deal with her frenetic emotional energy long term. And, viewing her as more than a sort of ambulatory vagina, and aware that she has feelings, this might dissuade me from pursuing any such romantic attraction.

Seriously, I think that Charlie Yu would creep out even the more promiscuous MLP fanverse characters, such as Storm Front. Let alone a more or less traditional Fantasy Counterpart Culture Amish person, such as Pinkie Pie.

4070257

I think that the analysis of his thoughts were, once again, pointed towards "Yes, he did it, it was horrible, end of story". I actually read it, and Imm sure you did, too, so let me go back through and add just a bit to your bullets.

(1)/(2) Yes, ponies do seem to go around naked in a lot of HiE stories (and really every story if you think about it), and I think that, as a male, the Anonymous character would get turned on if he was constantly assaulted with images of female genitalia. I actually wouldn't be suprised if almost every heterosexual male felt like that way.

(3)/(4) Now, I could be completely wrong on this one, but I don't think he was ever going to use Pinkie just for sex, as I'm sure almost every relationship ever does the same. Seeing Pinkie's vagina and him becoming aroused though, leads right back in to what I said about bullets (1) and (2), where he would get more than likely become aroused even if it wasn't Pinkie's that he was seeing. Also, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would feel a bit frustrated if a girl (or, in this case, a mare) they liked rejected them, so that one should just be understandable.

(5)/(6) Anonymous here did actually have second thoughts about having sex with Derpy, though it seems to have flown over the heads of everyone that argued about a word in the description. Now, yeah, he did go through and ended up having sex with her, and that's where everything really seems to go downhill for everyone. This next point may not have anything to do with it, but it also seemed like he was just exploring her for a lot of it, and then there's an "innocence" fetish that could've played a role in all of this, but I won't get into that now because I'm assuming this is just your regular, run-of-the-mill heterosexual male.

However, as many have pointed out, she never said "no," which is something she easily could have done, or at least resisted in some way. I refuse to believe that a creature of any sorts would have no idea how to respond to something that they don't want. Don't bring up that bullshit that she's not smart, or that she's mentally handicapped, because she's not; she can obviously function perfectly fine, and is simply being naive (going off of what we are provided with).

(7) After having done the deed, he did appear to show some signs of regret for what he'd just done, and, yes, it was despicable to just walk away, but he did also help her out (though that is no consolation).

(8) Yeah, I don't have much for this, other than it didn't seem like he really wanted her to go away; he was pretty neutral about it, actually. Maybe a bit confused at first, but, otherwise, it didn't seem like anything.

(9)/(10) He never went back to ask her for another chance; he went for a pastry, which is where Derpy called him her colt-friend for the first time (assuming everything was chronological). Why would you just assume going back to see the mare that rejected him instantly meant he wanted sex? Why would you assume asking her out in the first place instantly meant he wanted sex? Sure, maybe it was in his head somewhere, but I'm sure he wasn't going to be like, "Hey, Pinkie, I ordered the breadsticks before you got here! Let's go to the bathroom and fuck!"



You have every right to disagree, and I hope you feel the same about me and my argument, but I want to try and show that, yeah, he did do something without her consent, but there were things both did/could have done to completely change everything, if that makes any sense.

4070257

Also, in reaponse to the second part of your comment, think of any story (clopfic or no) that actually gives a good reason for liking a horse other than they either a) Like their personality b) Like the way they look or c) Random attraction. I can think of one or two, but a clopfic (which I'll use, because "Stuck" was one) usually doesn't need a plot, it really needs to be more like "Intro > Sex > Epilogue".

If the author actually wanted there to be a reason for Anonymous to really like Pinkie, he/she more than lijely would have put one in there. It seems a lot like Anon just had a crush on Pinkie, then tried to act on it, but ended up getting rejected, then going out and taking his frustration out in the most primal way possible.

I mean, come on; if we're going to use fictional examples, let me point you towards Coheed and Cambria's epic "Good Apollo I'm Burning Star IV, Volume I: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness". Long name aside, the main plot is about this man known simply as "The Writer" and how his girlfriend, Miss Erica Court, leaves him. There's a lot of confusing things that I'd love to go into detail about because I love the band, but, basically, he decides the only reasonable thing to do would be kill her. All that over her leaving him; can you imagine? He could've easily gone out and done something productive to society, but instead he tries to kill her.

Anon also showed recognition for Derpy being an actual living, breathing thing several times, but, again, that seems t have flown over everyone's heads.

4070391

(1)/(2) Yes, ponies do seem to go around naked in a lot of HiE stories (and really every story if you think about it), and I think that, as a male, the Anonymous character would get turned on if he was constantly assaulted with images of female genitalia. I actually wouldn't be suprised if almost every heterosexual male felt like that way.

It's not a matter of getting turned on versus not getting turned on. It's a matter of the assumption that being "turned on" means that he has the right to simply take advantage of a mare against her will. There's also a familiarity factor here -- why wouldn't he get used to the constant nudity? After all, it's not a deliberate sexual display -- when Equestrian mares want to do that they put on dresses!

Remember, the stallions see this all the time, and are genetically programmed to find the sight enticing. Yet somehow they don't seem to be constantly raping random mares found in the shrubbery. If they were, then many of the visible aspects of Equestrian society would be different -- most obviously, mares would be a lot more careful to travel in large escorted groups.

(3)/(4) Now, I could be completely wrong on this one, but I don't think he was ever going to use Pinkie just for sex, as I'm sure almost every relationship ever does the same. Seeing Pinkie's vagina and him becoming aroused though, leads right back in to what I said about bullets (1) and (2), where he would get more than likely become aroused even if it wasn't Pinkie's that he was seeing.

In-story no reason is given for why he finds Pinkie Pie especially attractive. He claims that she rejects him because of his species, which is certainly possible -- but he adduces no evidence for this belief. Given his later behavior, I can see all sorts of OTHER reasons for Pinkie not to accept his courtship, starting with her perhaps picking up on the fact that if frustrated he might try to force her to have sex with him (remember, Pinkie in canon has psychic abilities).

People who find Pinkie's rejection of him unreasonable might reflect upon the fact that Pinkie may have dreams, goals and ideals regarding her own romantic prospects that do not include being the sex toy of a shallow and violent alien being. She's a sapient being, after all, with emotions and thoughts of her own, not some sort of anatomically-correct living plushie. Thinking about shallow and violent alien beings, it's occurred to me that Charlie Yu makes Discord (at least the way he's been acting in the fourth season) look nice by comparison, which is saying something!

Also, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would feel a bit frustrated if a girl (or, in this case, a mare) they liked rejected them, so that one should just be understandable.

Like most men of middle age, I have had the experience of being rejected in just such a fashion many times. Also like most grown men, I can state that I did not respond to this by trying to rape the first vulnerable female I encountered following such rejections.

This next point may not have anything to do with it, but it also seemed like he was just exploring her for a lot of it, and then there's an "innocence" fetish that could've played a role in all of this ...

There is nothing wrong with finding innocence attractive, especially if by "innocence" one especially means "beneficent good-heartedness, niceness, childlike playfulness" which are all qualities which apply in spades to Derpy. However, there is something very wrong with responding to innocence by attempting to crush it and stamp it into the ground, which is basically how Charlie Yu reacts to this.

However, as many have pointed out, she never said "no," which is something she easily could have done, or at least resisted in some way. I refuse to believe that a creature of any sorts would have no idea how to respond to something that they don't want. Don't bring up that bullshit that she's not smart, or that she's mentally handicapped, because she's not; she can obviously function perfectly fine, and is simply being naive (going off of what we are provided with).

My personal opinion here is that Derpy was horny, lonely and -- because she couldn't believe that someone would want to have sex with her without at least liking her as a friend -- was happy that some friendly entity was attracted to her in this fashion. Now it's fairly obvious from Charlie's "how awkward" rection in the original story "Stuck" that he did not even slightly return Derpy's love or friendship, he merely regarded her as a motile sexual orifice.

If you read between Luna's lines in this story, that's obviously Luna's opinion of what happened as well. She hates Charlie not for having sex with Derpy, but for doing so in a callous and dishonorable manner. (My version of) Luna is not anti-sex, she is pro-love and friendship, and Charlie treated Derpy in an absurdly un-loving and un-friendly fashion -- after Derpy had demonstrated that she loved him and accepted his friendship. She despises Charlie for this abuse of a kind, innocent and loving mare. (It reminds her more than a little bit of someone she knew way, way back, up in the Crystal City).

(9)/(10) He never went back to ask her for another chance; he went for a pastry, which is where Derpy called him her colt-friend for the first time (assuming everything was chronological). Why would you just assume going back to see the mare that rejected him instantly meant he wanted sex?

Why does he find Derpy's presence so awkward if it didn't? Why -- assuming that he is a normally intelligent human being, or even a slightly-subnormal one -- would he not assume that the fact that the female he'd had sex with was following him around and behaving in a friendly fashion afterward indicated that Derpy saw him as her lover? That is the obvious assumption anyone would make.

Yeah, I get why it's "awkward" in that Derpy made a romantic claim on him. But, since Pinkie had rejected him anyway, so what? The only explanation here is that he was thinking "Eww, the wall-eyed retard implies we had sex and everyone will be grossed out at me."

Well, Charlie Yu, guess what? You did have sex with her, and hence Derpy is merely stating a fact. She's not being at all subtle in the way she's stating it, but who ever claimed Derpy was subtle? Maybe you should have considered this possibility before you decided to ... have sex with her?

Why would you assume asking her out in the first place instantly meant he wanted sex? Sure, maybe it was in his head somewhere, but I'm sure he wasn't going to be like, "Hey, Pinkie, I ordered the breadsticks before you got here! Let's go to the bathroom and fuck!"

Actually, given his explicitly portrayed behavior toward Derpy Hooves in the story, I wouldn't be surprised if his method of asking Pinkie Pie out in the first place wasn't "Hey, you're kind of hot ... we could go off somewhere in private and ... heh-heh, you know. Whaddya say, babe?" I'll note that Pinkie is hyper-friendly in canon, so if he'd just asked her to hang out with him in some non-creepy fashion, she probably would have said "Yes" -- provided that she wasn't picking up some sort of menacing emotion from him. Though she probably would have wanted to turn it into a party.

Pinkie Pie is smart. She could see how he was treating other Ponies, and reading this story I don't think he was exactly being nice to them before this. In fact, at no point in this story do I see him even in backstory being nice to anypony. It's obvious that the Ponies are trying their best to be nice to him, but even Pinkie Pie probably draws the hospitality line well short of "lift my tail for him."

You have every right to disagree, and I hope you feel the same about me and my argument, but I want to try and show that, yeah, he did do something without her consent, but there were things both did/could have done to completely change everything, if that makes any sense.

Well, that's my point. After he more or less forced and intimidated Derpy into sex with him, he found out (to what should have been his great surprise) that Derpy had actually been lonely enough that she actually welcomed his attentions. He could have treated her in a friendly and loving fashion from this point on, and then he would have had a marefriend. For real. That was what he claimed he wanted in the first paragraphs.

Instead, he treated her like dirt, and wondered why she kept following him around. I can have no sympathy for this behavior on his part. It was unwarranted cruelty to the one mare who had genuinely and honestly accepted him.

This is why he's despised.

4070877

After reading your comments twice now, I can only assume that this would not be happening had he not found Derpy in the position she was. Would he still be going out to try and rape the first mare he saw before going home, or would he just kinda get back and watch television or something and mope a bit?

I understand and actually agree with a few of your points, but it seems like everything, in the end, seems to come back to "No matter what, he had every intention to rape the next living thing he saw", which is something I find incredibly hard to believe.


Now, it's late here, arguments are still raging on, the author is doing fine, I'm writing a parody of all this reiteration/stupidity between users, and the wind's howling like crazy. I apologize if I don't respond quickly to your next reply, should you have one.

4070924

After reading your comments twice now, I can only assume that this would not be happening had he not found Derpy in the position she was. Would he still be going out to try and rape the first mare he saw before going home, or would he just kinda get back and watch television or something and mope a bit?

No, he would not have done so on that occasion, but this misses the point. His character is plainly such that he feels that the world owes him sex and that if it doesn't give him sex he's gonna go right out there and take it. This is blatant and obvious: he feels that Pinkie Pie must be prejudiced against his species if she won't "date" him; he feels that Derpy giving him sex is just his right and due, and he totally fails to grasp why one of the better possible outcomes of this dubiously-consensual sex with Derpy might be that she would fall in love with him (one of the worse ones -- namely being arrested for sexual assault -- is what An Epstolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses centers upon).

This makes it plain that he doesn't really think of the mares of Ponyville as people. Hence my facetious litany of "vagina, vagina, vagina" in my earlier comment. He sees them as just sex-possessing objects, not as independent sapient beings who might not want to have sex with him because they aren't in love with him, because getting somepony to love oneself usually requires an active display of positive virtues showing a similar sense of life. I figure he can't get even the easier mares -- who might be satisfied with a mere "he's cute" or "he's interesting" -- because he's such a self-entitled git that it shines from him like the light from Celestia's golden Sun.

So given this, I think it's inevitable that he was going to do something horrible to somepony before too long. He picked "rape" due to sexual frustration and opportunity -- how long would it have been, had Derpy not been stuck in that hedge, before he happened to catch some other mare (or filly!) at a disadvantage?

("Hey, Cutie Mark Crusaders, wanna really try out some new talents?")

Or, given that the Ponies are normally self-defense pacifists with an abhorrence of direct and unprovoked violence, before he hauled off and hurt somepony for no good reason other than them pulling a prank -- or even just a joke -- at his expense? Hey, he's the entitled git who can't find enough porn, we need to be understanding of his needs as a snowflake far more special than any Snowdrop ever crafted.

Look, the basic problem with your argument is that a normal, sane male does not respond to seeing a female in distress by raping her. Or even crudely coming on to her (and groping someone's Cutie Mark is about as intimate in their society as grabbing someone's butt cheek is in ours). The fact that Charlie Yu responds in this fashion strongly implies that he does not consider himself to be restrained by normal social boundaries. This means that he is very likely to do a (slightly different) bad thing given a (slightly different) opportunity.

To put it bluntly: character is destiny. That's what my Cutie Mark is telling me.

4070924

Wind? Are you in the SF Bay area? Specifically the Oakland Hills?

I was reluctant to read this as I have no intention of reading Stuck, as it looks creepy and poorly written. But, I'm an obsessive completionist and I like your stuff so I did read this, and I enjoyed it. An interesting exploration of what alien law in candy land could be like.

Even without a conviction on this matter, they could deport him under immigration law. Equestria may have permissive immigration laws, but they won't apply to a being from a nation with which Equestria has no diplomatic relations.

As to the discussion of nudity, humans actually acclimate to nudity relatively quickly, as anyone who has spent time around nudists will tell you.

Edit: I'd kinda like to see more, there are few cases where it is so satisfying to watch someone get their comeuppance.

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I'll be honest; I skimmed your reply. That's no way to reply, especially in an argument, so I'll apologize right now, but I don't think I'm very good at what I'm trying to do, and that is just get people to stop arguing.

I understand that rape is terrible, and never have I wished it upon someone, but do we really need fourteen pages of people arguing with each other over what defines rape and what doesn't? It doesn't help that almost every argument there seems to just be a reiteration of what the last person said, and that if you say anything different than the general consensus, you're assaulted by at least three other people who can't think of anything original to say as a retort. Hell, even if you say something in the general consensus you'll get attacked over there.



4070979

Texas, man. Wind's howling here and there, but nothing too bad.

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It's actually competently written (or, I think so), but it's the subject matter that's being the clincher for many people's opinions. It's interesting to note that there are a few people on there who have formed opinions but said they haven't actually read the story, which doesn't seem like any way to operate.

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Even without a conviction on this matter, they could deport him under immigration law. Equestria may have permissive immigration laws, but they won't apply to a being from a nation with which Equestria has no diplomatic relations.

Indeed. Even I'm not obsessive enough about MLP:FIM to attempt to recreate the entire Equestrian legal code based upon the clues in canon, but it's obvious from the overall lack of fear that Equestria's a fairly liberal society based on some concept of Pony civil rights, defended by the Realm. However, Charlie Yu isn't an Equestrian (unless he has been directly given citizenship or sworn allegiance to the Realm) and he's definitely neither a Pony nor a native-born Equestrian.

Which means he doesn't have an actual RIGHT to remain there. The Ponies -- including the Princesses -- are kindly enough that they would normally not deport / expel him, but when he starts actually abusing the Equestrians, all bets are off. Celestia would in particular want him imprisoned or gone to project her little Ponies from his malice. In fact, deportation would be almost inevitable, the real question would be whether or not he would have to do prison time first. (No prisons in-canon, but no reason to assume that there are no prisons either, and since the Princesses don't seem the sorts to be into floggings and executions, I'll assume that there are prisons or some sort of work camps where felons can expunge their debts to society).

As to where one would deport him, given that he has no way back home? Gee, I dunno, maybe he should have thought of that before he decided to start abusing harmless and friendly Ponies like Derpy Hooves? Seriously, I don't have much sympathy for Charlie Yu.

As to the discussion of nudity, humans actually acclimate to nudity relatively quickly, as anyone who has spent time around nudists will tell you.

Indeed. Someone who responds to constantly seeing naked females of another species by literally-uncontrollable and violent sexual desire has serious emotional problems.

It's occurred to me that, whether or not Derpy is mentally-retarded, there is evidence in story that Charlie Yu is retarded in that fashion. Many impulse-criminals are mentally-subnormal, and their lack of impulse control derives directly from their low intellects.

Hmm, I'd kind of like to continue the story too. I can see some hilarious scenes with Fluttershy (I see her as being kind to Charlie and him deciding that this means she has a crush on him, with the predictable consequence of Charlie reeling back in horror from an outraged Fluttershy's Stare) and Celestia (I think she should get to interview him personally, with me writing the transcript). I wonder if Cadance and Shining should get to weigh in on the issue?

I also see everypony in any scene with him being very careful to keep their butts pointed away from him. And the popular press having a field day with "Alien Demon Rapist" stories.

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Ah well, I'm in the Oakland Hills in California right now, and there's a high wind whipping through the trees around my house and making me glad to be indoors where it's nice and warm.

Incidentally, if it's relevant I'm a political conservative/libertarian, not a "social justice warrior." I think that "Stuck" was the first thing I've ever read to make me use "rape culture" non-sarcastically in a very long time.

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California sounds nice about now.

So, can we call a truce here and stop all the arguing? It's cool if you don't want to, but I figure it's worth a shot.

4071093

Hey, hello neighbor, I'm just a few miles away.

Many rape cases do not go to trial because of the strain it places on the victims, but in this case, there are unrelated charges that cannot be denied.

I realized that I find similar problems in some (bad) Sparity fics. It often seems like Spike's attraction is treated as some sort of legitimate claim such that Rarity is at fault for not returning it.

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Many rape cases do not go to trial because of the strain it places on the victims, but in this case, there are unrelated charges that cannot be denied.

Indeed to both points. In Equestria, rape is extremely rare due to the generally peaceful nature of the Ponies, coupled with a culture which celebrates friendship and love as central social virtues. One of Twilight's problems is that she doesn't have a lot of precedent law by which to go, plus this is the sort of rape case that would be hard for the modern West to decide given the ambiguity of consent in the timeline of events.

Luna remembers a more extensive case law from a much more violent period of Equestrian history (not as violent as the Human Middle Ages, but pretty bad by Pony standards). However, many of the customs and penalties are barbaric by modern Equestrian standards: for instance, it was then assumed that mares and fillies belonged to their mothers as near-chattels, and one of the penalties for male-on-female rape was gelding.

Luna, who is highly prejudiced against Charlie Yu, sees no problem with any of this. Celestia (who is hardly Charlie's greatest fan) considers it a bad idea to re-introduce such penalties into an Equestria which has abolished maiming as a criminal penalty for many centuries -- it was already going out of fashion around the time of Luna's Rebellion. The very thought would horrify Twilight Sparkle lalmost as much as have Charlie's actions themselves.

Which seriously restrains Luna, almost as much as Celestia's commands. If you've noticed from her letter, she really likes Twilight in this verse.

I realized that I find similar problems in some (bad) Sparity fics. It often seems like Spike's attraction is treated as some sort of legitimate claim such that Rarity is at fault for not returning it.

Indeed. While I believe that Spike's love is quite real, Rarity is still a free Pony, and has the right to return or not return it to whatever degree she chooses.

The situation is even more farcical with Charlie and Pinkie. There is nothing in backstory that implies that Charlie has given Pinkie the slightest reason to even like him as a friend, beyond the fact that Pinkie is extremely friendly and will tend to like anyone who gives her even a tiny opening for friendship.

At least Rarity and Spike are in canon close friends, and hence she owes him the normal respect one would give a close friend. Pinkie Pie owes Charlie Yu nothing save basic civility -- and not even that, after he behaves so shamefully to another of her friends (and a far better one).

Cool, maybe someday you can meet me and/or my wife. :twilightsmile:

This, this is really good. Thoughtfully written and offers a glimpse at what might be the Equestrian legal standard.
It may be the best thing to come out of that other story.

Is it wrong I read the inspiration while substituting all instances of you with Yu?

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Oh yes, the original story was written in second-person singular so I decided the protagonist's (antagonist's in this sequel) name had to be "Yu." Plus I found it a good name for an unlikeable character. :raritywink:

It was a fetish story! Something to fap to, not to debate ethics to. :ajbemused:

4071423
I just may have to continue doing that while reading any of the various second person fics that populate this site. Although most are not as reprehensible as ol Charlie boy.

I read this first, then decided that I should read the original rather than let others form my opinion for me. And because nothing the Pov character did sounded remotely like what I would think or do, I mentally edited every instance of 'you did x' into 'Yu did it'. It made stuck marginally more readable.

4071083 Sentencing in Equestria seems to be really ad-hoc, with 'being run out of town' being the default even for things that did massive damage. Harsher punishments are saved for creatures who are likely to come back and do it again.

They may or may not have dungeons, but Twilight assumes they do. Petrification (or some other sort of theraputic transmutation) seems like a more likely sentence for someone truly awful, though. Or being subjected to a 'reforming spell'. :twilightsmile:

So... Derpy gets a new pet dog? :trollestia:

You're a braver and more patient man than me to not only step willingly into this drama, but continue to calmly articulate yourself about it.

I don't think it desperately needs continuation--it stands as is just fine. If you can think of something else important to say on the subject, there's certainly room for it, though.

Celestiaspeed, in any case. :derpytongue2:

Firstly, whether or not a "reaonable Pony"

*reasonable

Twilight: mensa culpa. Celestia: mens culpa.

*this is spelled inconsistently. When I did a quick google search, mens culpa got a response, while mensa culpa did not.

Congratulations, Yu. You've managed to upset at least three of the most powerful beings in a new and alien land, and it's only due to their kind natures that your actions haven't tainted their opinion on human society as a whole. I hope you're happy, because not many other people are going to be.

I mean, you called Derpy a retard. Come on. Are you trying to make everyone hate you?

Came here on bookplayer's endorsement. This is way, waaaay better than the fic that inspired it, by any conceivable measure.

Don't you dare continue it. :ajbemused: Ain't worth it. Go write something that isn't tied to a crass publicity stunt.

And so the saga continues....
derpicdn.net/img/view/2012/11/26/163449__safe_pinkie+pie_computer_lord+of+the+rings_trolling_artist-colon-chiapetofdoom.jpg


Edit: I genuinely enjoyed this story after reading it, I don't know what I was expecting but this wasn't it. A serious, vaguely self-righteous look at the funny "sociopathic autist goes to equestria and does lulzy stuff" trope, next chapter please.
(Edit 2: not self-righteous towards the trope but rather the story that directly inspired it)

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This is my new dog Charlie.:derpyderp1: He really likes to lick peanut butter :derpytongue2:

4071423
On a side note, one of my students this past year was named Yu. I would always greet him by saying "Hey, Yu!" and then laugh at myself. He was always confused.:rainbowwild:

4071432

Perhaps, but if it actually happened I could see consequences. In-universe Derpy is real and would have real feelings, equine rights, and friends.

4071433

And because nothing the Pov character did sounded remotely like what I would think or do, I mentally edited every instance of 'you did x' into 'Yu did it'. It made stuck marginally more readable.

I had that thought too.

I've been trying to put myself in Yu's place, and if I were as desperately horny and lonely as him, and I ran into a mare in a physical predicament, "rape her" would not be my first thought, or even second. The obvious thing to do would be help her and then try to talk to her and hope for a Rescue Romance. The irony of this is that the Derpy portrayed in "Stuck" was also very obviously very horny and very lonely (as witness her lack of complaint when Yu in fact started molesting her) and would probably have been rather easy to win with a more friendly and normal approach.

My main problem with Yu aside from his total amorality is his deep stupidity. He most notably does not get that (1) Derpy, a pegasus, cannot be evaded by her simply being on the other side of a hedge (as she can flap her cute little wings and rise above the obstacle) and (2) given the surprisingly good outcome (for Yu) that she actually liked having sex more or less forced upon her by himself, it is natural that she would then have positive affect toward him and want to hang around him in the future. As to the first, he's by his own statement been in Equestria for months and hence is quite familiar with the capabilities of their Kinds; as for the second -- well, did he ever know any real girls (as opposed to pornographic images) back in his own world?

This is why I have him try to impress Pinkie by callousness and cruelty, and then imagine he can overpower Spike. Because in the original he shows a severe obliviousness to anything other than his own lusts and the presence of female genitalia shielded only by good manners and tails, rather than armor-plated pants. He also shows in particular a lack of consciousness of female characters as having any existence or purposes outside of the context of said lustful desires.

4071472

Sentencing in Equestria seems to be really ad-hoc, with 'being run out of town' being the default even for things that did massive damage. Harsher punishments are saved for creatures who are likely to come back and do it again.

I think that it's more that the Equestrians are really, really merciful by nature. What's more, to them exile is a harsher punishment than it is to us, or even to the ancient Greeks who invented "ostracism." They're basically-gentle herd creatures, and they'd much rather not be mean to any being -- I suspect that the word "meanie" (played for laughs though it often is, especially when somepony rather innocent such as Fluttershy or Pinkie Pie applies it to genuinely evil foes) is a translation of a term that has much deeper condemnatory meaning in the original cultural context. I notice that Twilight Sparkle completely avoids the term, but that may be because she prefers to use more precise ones to describe misbehavior on the part of others.

The Equestrians are demonstrably not shy about criticizing and judging the behavior of others, often to a moral standard of kindness, compassion and overall benevolence that most human cultures would find excessively idealistic. That's why Pinkie Pie and Twilight Sparkle treat this so seriously from the beginning -- the lack of compassion and callousness required for any entity to treat a harmless, friendly pony like Derpy Hooves so badly shock them to the core. Twilight is just better at analyzing the reasons for her condemnation of this conduct than is Pinkie.

Equestrian law is nowhere near as demanding as is Equestrian custom in this matter. If Charlie is acquitted, or the charges dropped, it would be because his actions failed to rise to the formal level required under their definition of "rape." Very few Equestrian stallions would have been even remotely as cruel as was Charlie, though, even if they were trying to escape a presumed romantic relationship. In particular, very few would have humiliated her in public in that fashion, which is actually what set Pinkie Pie off to the point where she committed an act of technically-unprovoked physical violence (itself shocking from her cultural context).

Ironically, one likely reason why Charlie might evade any conviction is that Derpy -- after she calms down -- would feel sad at the thought of him suffering, and hence insist that the charges be dropped. If Derpy doesn't want to prosecute on rape, the only way the Realm could prosecute on rape would be to declare her legally-incompetent and act on her behalf: this, however, would in some ways be a worse affront to her dignity than what Charlie did to her. And everypony, especially Luna, knows it.

If you don't think that Derpy would have the perseverance to insist on charges being dropped, once she made up her mind that this was the right thing to do, consider that in most fanon she's portrayed as being a very strong-willed Pony. Especially in matters where she is convinced of the moral necessity of her actions (such as protecting Dinky). Derpy would stand up even to Princess Luna on a matter such as that -- it's this deep integrity that is one of the reasons Luna likes her (and also why Luna considers her to be more intelligent than Charlie Yu obviously assumes).

Heh, I don't think the Princesses will turn Charlie Yu into a dog, though the thought is inherently amusing. :pinkiehappy:

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Uh... I think you replied to the wrong comment.

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