• Member Since 13th Oct, 2013
  • offline last seen April 20th

Jordan179


I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.

Sequels1

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October 3rd, YOH 1501: In the aftermath of Twilight Sparkle's mental breakdown (shown in S2E03 "Lesson Zero"), a shaken Princess Celestia reflects on how close she came to losing her Most Faithful Student, and wonders where she herself went wrong.

Chapters (1)
Comments ( 119 )

Fun musings... but a little slow, given that nothing happens. The description was very attractive; there's a sad shortage of good fics related to Lesson Zero... but I'm afraid there's no real plot to this story, except for Celestia musing to herself about the long-term plot this's taken from the middle of.

I am impressed by how Celestia reprimanded herself in the first part of the story. I think she got too harsh with herself, but she has a very well-developed sense of responsibility. She needs to, to prevent either going Nightmare or ending up like Dissey or even worse, Molestia (in the sense of being concerned with feeding her own appetites and nothing else).

And I love the section where Luna starts waxing enthusiastic about visiting Ponyville on Nightmare Night:

"That ... makes sense," Luna acknowledged. "'Tis hard for me, to extend my self toward Twilight, knowing what she was to me, and unable to tell her. But I shall try. To restrain myself, to not tell her too much, to be friendly." She thought a moment. "Does Ponyville have a Harvest Festival?" she asked. "In the past, almost any farming town would have big ones toward the coming time of year."

"Yes," replied Celestia. "Nightmare Night. A variant on the old All Soul's Night, Samhain as it was called in the time of the Tribes. But you should know ..."

Oh poor Luna! She needs to learn to listen to her sister!

Will there be a second chapter covering Luna's own thoughts and feelings on that particular visit?

I love this story as much as your other 'alternate viewpoint stories' covering the various episodes. Great work, and it gave me more than a few laughs when poor Luna started discussing her planned visit. The poor alicorn of night.

Huh. That fateful rainboom was not unlike a metaphysical Big Bang. Makes sense to me. It is how this all got started, as Starlight will/did/would have demonstrate(d).

Luna resent the letters? Well, Celestia did make a point about how Discord ensnared her, but that's still a very interesting detail.

Very cool concept with Celestia's trap for the Nightmare. Sometimes the hand of destiny could use a nudge in the right direction.

This got rather bogged down in exposition for a bit. Fortunately, Luna swooped in to liven things up and clarify how she came to Nightmare Night unaware of the apparent lèse majesté.

In all, a very enjoyable vignette and a good look at Celestia's more vulnerable side. Thank you for it.

¡Lesson # 0 flowing straight into Luna Eclipsed is brilliant!

Excellent and well-executed horsewords, as per the usual, J179.

Of course, what else can one expect from one of the best?

Gee, Celestia, maybe you should just stop SCREWING with ponies, see how that works. Dang, woman.

6895592

A fair critique. This is mosly about Celestia's reaction to what nearly happened to Twilight, and the way in which this impels Luna to come to Ponyville later in "Luna Eclipsed." This is essentially meant as canon filler between "Lesson Zero" and "Luna Eclipsed."

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My Celestia could be characterized as a basically fun-loving, even hedonistic mare who has chosen a path of great responsibility and honorably adheres to it as best as possible. A very large part of her would actually rather live a life of singing and dancing and eating cake; this is how she spent a lot of her time in The World That Was Lost. That didn't end so well, which is one reason why she assumed such great responsibility in her current incarnation.

You see this in vanilla-canon in the two episodes about the Gala. For Celestia this is an act of responsibility that helps her keep track of the politics of the Realm and reinforce her social influence, which is important because it lets her dominate affairs without having to do anything cruel and tyrannical. But she really doesn't like it, which is why she was so happy in "Best Night Ever" to just hang out with Twilight and meet her friends; and why in "Make New Friends, But Keep Discord" she found Discord such fun company.

My Celestia must be wary of letting her hedonism slip into outright decadence, especially given that there are few real checks on this; there is an effectively unlimited supply of sycophants who would tell her she was being a brilliant leader even as she spiraled into all sorts of self- and other-destructive behavior. She's well aware of this, and of the way in which the desire to seek solace from the pressures of leadership could lead her into bad behavior. She has to be her own moral compass. One of the reasons she wants peers is to help her perceive her own mistakes. She knows she's imperfect.

While the most obviously-spectacular and destructive "Molestia" behavior is sexual, she could of course become unbalanced about other pleasures as well. To take the one of which everyone makes fun, between her Alicorn metabolism and ability to regenerate physical harm, she could consume vast quantities of food and drink, far beyond the level that would kill any other Pony (even the few as physically large as herself), and basically spend all her time gourmandizing. This would be less socially-destructive than being a sexual Molestia, but it would cripple her for leadership by distracting her from her duties.

Celestia's an extremely good Pony, which helps a lot. She really doesn't want to be cruel and harmful to other Ponies and thus is little-tempted toward such behavior. Her hedonism comes principally from an excess of love for the material world into which she has chosen to be incarnated, and the Ponies within it.

I had a lot of fun writing enthusiastic, happy Luna. I've written enough sad, depressed, self-loathing and self-blaming Luna, and she deserves to be happy for a change. Sad as this is in context with the middle part of "Luna Eclipsed," I also keep in mind that the visit to Ponyville worked out well for Luna in the end. The townsfolk came to appreciate her and realize that she was trying to bring joy rather than suffering, and she did wind up bonding with Twilight Sparkle -- in fact, it was that obvious bonding which impelled me to write "A Meeting by Moonlight" in the first place.

I'm more likely to do a Luna's-viewpoint "Luna Eclipsed" as a separate story. Though it would obviously be a direct sequel to this one, if I do it.

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Luna resent the letters? Well, Celestia did make a point about how Discord ensnared her, but that's still a very interesting detail.

I took that directly from Alex Warlorn's version of the events. It makes perfect sense, as Show does tell us that Discord was neutralizing Celestia, but never tells us what Luna was doing at the time. (Nor for that matter Cadance, but Cadance had no particular reason to be in Canterlot or have access to Twilight's letters at that point in time, while Luna did).

Very cool concept with Celestia's trap for the Nightmare. Sometimes the hand of destiny could use a nudge in the right direction.

Looking at Ponyville, its inhabitants (which include a suspiciously high proportion of Ponies with really unusual Talents or powerful general abilities), its location (last town due south toward the old Castle from Canterlot) and considering that it was established by direct royal grant from Celestia, it seems obvious to me that the town was founded as a garrison -- and a trap for Luna. It was also so fortuitous for the Element Bearers to meet the way they did, the very day before they would be needed, that it can't have been pure coincience.

This got rather bogged down in exposition for a bit. Fortunately, Luna swooped in to liven things up and clarify how she came to Nightmare Night unaware of the apparent lèse majesté.

Without Luna, this story would have been purely about Celestia feeling depressed, and it would have gotten the "Sad" tag. See! Everything is better with Luna! :pinkiehappy:

I'm glad you liked it. :twilightsmile:

6896811

Well, it's kind of Celestia's job. No, seriously -- to some extent, being the absolute ruler of a continental empire does require a certain degree of social manipulation if one is to do so without being an Evil Overlord, and she also has some major long-term plans.

Pretty sure Starlight Glimmer was never a student of Celestia. Even if she was, making that 'Spell of Sameness' would have her locked away considering what it does.

Excellent introspectives.

Celestia taps her chin, "Perhaps choosing an obsessive perfectionist with anxiety disorder wasn't the best idea after all..."

Nuff said.

:trollestia:

6897327 Who says she wasn't locked away? Considering how easily she sneaked into Friendship Castle, I could definitely see her escaping. Or, maybe she evaded like Sunset Shimmer did after she stole the Element of Magic.

Ah, so the benevolent tyrant shows remorse....

My only problem for this on a technical level is your overuse of capital letters. Even for a stylistic choice, it's odd what you do with your nouns. Like, "New Alicorns," why capital "n"? Or even "alicorn" for that matter. "Alicorn" would be like a dog breed, and you don't capitalize those except in cases of "German shepherd" and "Yorkshire terrier", right? Or every time you typed "pony". You don't capitalize "human" do you? "Sister" also shouldn't be capitalized when used in things like, "my/your sister," and instead reserved when it's used to directly refer to somebody in replacement of a name.
"How are you, Sister?" Correct. "This is my sister, Luna." Correct. "My Sister is sleeping." Incorrect. Ya get me?
Maybe look into the difference between proper and common nouns. It should help. I'm all for trying to make your own style, but this was mostly distracting and didn't add much to make the reading better.

6897327 Starlight Glimmer, while sexy, was very clear to anyone paying attention that she had major issues. Celestia would have picked that up right away.

and knows [i[me very well.

I think something went awry with the formatting there.

This was a very well written fanfic. There were a few mistakes close to the beginning, but I'll let other people find those and correct them. The thing I like about these fanfics is that they do justice for Celestia. I prefer to see Celestia as a loving and caring ruler who wants to go out of her own way to keep her subjects and the ones she loves safe and happy, only to have her own anxieties and insecurities become an obsticle for her. I find it better in my opinion than the view point of her being a tyrant, or an all-seeing goddess, or worse...(I won't go into detail there. :unsuresweetie:)
Once again, nicely done. If I could give you a pug, I would. Only... I... don't really know... where... you... live, and... um... well... I don't have a pug... *Clears throat* Yeah... :twilightsheepish:

6897950 'Sneak into'? It's a giant crystal tree in the middle of a rural town that has no guard detail. Anyone can walk right in whenever they feel like it. Also, considering that Sunset is a confirmed student of Celestia she shouldn't have any trouble getting past guards comprised entirely of earth ponies. Also, the dungeon would have to be built into the castle where Celestia and Luna reside. Unless they were out of town on business, she shouldn't have been able to escape. Besides, even if she did there would be wanted posters for her arrest which I'm pretty sure would discourage any pony from wanting to be a part of her town.

is extremely intelligent, and knows [i[me very well.”

italics brackets broken

The first half of this story is a total mess, an overstuffed world-building smorgasbord. It's less Celestia's regrets and reflections after confronting Twilight, and much more an excuse for all the exploratory expositions and digressions you can plausibly relate Celestia's thoughts to. It gets much better when Celestia and Luna talk, but before that? It seems like you're just using the story as an excuse to introduce your worldbuilding ideas, regardless of whether any of them actually help tell a story about Celestia, Twilight, and Celestia's past. Celestia's introspection was barely noticeable to me. Now in the second half, Celestia is talking with Luna, and the character interaction means you've got two characters who actually fell like they've got thoughts and emotions and all that. The mention of, say, Luna's love/friendship life has real weight behind the fanciful complications. But in the first half it's just an ever-growing pile of fluff. (Some of it's good fluff! Some of it, not so much, but that's not my point.)

To be fair, I can tell this is part of some continuity between multiple stories, and I've only read this one. (It was in the featured box and seemed intriguing.) But to me, overcomplicated worldbuliding isn't a problem. What is a problem is not relating those background details and ideas to the story or characters. In my opinion, this story seriously failed at doing that.

6897327

In my fanon, Starlight Glimmer was one of Celestia's ex-students, which is how Starlight created the Spell of Sameness. It's another variant on Starswirl the Bearded's unfinished spell -- the one Twilight used in "Magical Mystery Cure." As for locking Starlight away, Celestia could have done so, but she chose to assume that Starlight had gone temporarily insane and forgive her -- you know, as she does Twilight Sparkle in "Lesson Zero" ...? I don't know where you get this idea that Celestia just loves tossing Ponies into durance vile, but there's no sign of this on the Show.

6897622

Of multiple Ponies; most of them have had more than one past Incarnation. Each is the incarnation of something Cosmic, and not the first time either.

6897749

Of course, Celestia herself is a perfectionist, and anypony she'd want as Princess would have to be at least a bit of a perfectionist too. Every single member of the Mane Six is a perfectionist about those things which deeply matter to them. I can go down the list if you like.

6899547

Actually, from Alex Warlorn's Pony POVerse, which I urge everyone to read. But Alex, of course, got the idea from Indian religion.

Celestia and Luna are about 2525 years old at this point, in their current incarnations Their Cosmic Selves, Fusion and Gravity, became self-aware about 300 thousand years after the Big Bang.

6898273

I like Starlight as a character, but I'm not sure how she's particularly "sexy." She's an ideologically-driven fanatical intellectual, with serious emotional problems involving relating to others. I have some sympathy for her, and hope that she really does wind up staying reformed, and maybe finding some happiness now that she's no longer trying to run her own little Jonestown, but I don't know that she's that sexy -- or even all that driven by sexual desire, though she has some.

6899320

The first half of the story is Celestia twisting her emotions into a knot because she's utterly horrified by what just happened and afraid that worse will happen. It's meant to get all snarled up and tense because that's what's happening in Celestia's head.

Luna clears things up both stylistically and in-story.

The effect is wholly intentional.

Oh, and getting the exposition in smoothly as part of Celestia's thoughts is also intentional. Sorry if it bothers you that Celestia thinks complex thoughts, but she's about a lot more than just her big sexy white butt and long flowing rainbow mane, you know. She's the super-intelligent immortal millennia-old ruler of a continental empire. The character profile says "smart" to me, rather than "stupid."

6899567 It's because of the way she talks, she comes across to me as someone who's very persuasive, and I've seen a bit too much rule 34...........

Also, I like her color scheme. I'm partial to mares that are pink coated.

knows [i[me very well

Also some of Luna's dialogue is stiff. Interesting idea, but something happened during execution.

6899580

Oh, mind you -- in my fanon, she and Double Diamond were lovers, which is one of the reasons she's so furious about what Twilight Sparkle did. And she's had other lovers previously -- been engaged to be married, twice, fell through twice. She's around 42 years old, so this isn't surprising at all.

6899589

Luna's dialogue is (1) archaic (written in a form between Early Modern and 19th Century Modern English, on purpose) and (2) intentionally a bit stiff, because Luna's not the one of them who is the brilliant social manipulator. And she's discussing things that make her emotionally-uncomfortable, in parts of that conversation.

6899618 I'd still have a late baby with her.

6899636

I'm 51. And I never said that someone couldn't be sexually-attracted to her. My Double Diamond was. He felt betrayed too, you know ... both for the obvious reason but also when he realized just why she'd been so standoffish except when she totally wanted it (and had, of course, prepared by using water-and smudge-resistant lacquers.

She doesn't get him back, either, not as a lover. He's fallen for NIght Glider in the interim. But she does win him back as a friend. After her reform.

Well yea the world building is a bit heavy. Though I think the one thing we should take away is the key difference between Celestia's students who didn't ascend and Twilight, the thing that gives Twilight her real strength and power. Her friends, she is the Princess of Friendship because that is the well spring of strength she draws from, the love and support of those she loves. Spike Saved her from madness by informing Celestia when he saw her slipping, each of the Element Bearers embodies their Element and inspires Twilight to reflect that same quality in herself. Pinkie Reminds her to be joyful, Applejack reminds her to be honest, Rainbow loyalty, Rarity giving, Fluttershy compassionate. Spike is also highly important, at his best(which he isn't always at mind you) he's their to force Twilight to think by challenging her or needing her care, making her think of how her actions will effect others.

6897622 It certainly sounds like it.

And Twilight and Rainbow for sure seem to be,from what I read in this about them.

And Twilight's previous incarnation was a stallion. That's a bit different.

Wonder what Dash Firehooves (Rainbow's previous incarnation) was? A stallion? Or a mare?

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Dash Firehooves was male.

What I like most about the story is that, in universe and out, Luna brings out the best in Celestia. I could write a long and tedious monologue, filled with Day/Night metaphors, about how Luna helps her prioritize, about how she brings in a valuable perspective, about how she's Celestia's equal in ways few others are, but the plain truth is that Celestia loves Luna, and she will always put 100% into making her happy.

Who is Dawn Starfall? I'm aware that she used to be Celestia's personal student, and I also realize that I could find out more by reading Vengeance of Dawn (something I plan to do eventually), but I want to know what your view of the character is, and how her backstory fits into the Shadow Wars Story Verse.

6899660 Aww why the downvote? And what does your age have do with this? For that matter, I wasn't even referring to your fanon version of her. Was just commenting I think she's hot, albeit in a juvenille way.

co-inky-dinkally, very clever making the connection between the friendship letters being her salvation when facing Discord, and her consequently fixating on her friendship reports later when she blows a gasket.

Of course I've seen one MLP fan comic where Celestia KNOWS Twilight is freaking out, is watching all the mayhem through a magic mirror and laughing so hard all you see is her gilded hooves pointing up in the air.

Luna: Now that's just mean. And how the hell are you getting the sun to move like that?

6897044 The more I read about your interpretation of Celestia, the more I realize that she's surprisingly similar to a character I created for the AU I've been bouncing around in my head; Cancerous, the Flames of Disaster, and the former King of Equestria. While they're polar opposites on the surface (where Celestia exudes a warm benevolence, and rarely speaks without a kind word, Cancerous oozes with vicious bloodlust, and makes disturbing threats at a moment's notice), if you look a little deeper, you'd realize that they're both competent leaders that want the best for their people, and are willing to use unethical methods to protect their world. And although they want very different things in life (the Alicorn wants to eat, drink, and be merry, all without the pressures of the crown, and the Dragon wants to watch the world burn....one of these is worse than the other), because of their belief in personal responsibility, they refuse to indulge in their baser desires, and both Celestia and Cancerous clearly feel guilty for having them, underneath their respective masks. I'm rather happy about this, because I've been trying to make Cancerous a Shadow Archetype to Celestia, and the traits I see in your version make me think I'm on to something. Please tell me what you think!

Ah, that was good. Now I've gotten around to reading two SWSV fics, out of oh goodness I don't want to think about how many there are. There's a fair number of new SWSV details here, or at least ones I didn't know, judging by the nonstandard usage of Proper Nouns(disliked by English teachers, but used by many great authors, such as Rudyard Kipling). I did get an impression that some details were being spoiled, as they were specified as certain elements of the setting where I would normally expect that to be concealed until The Reveal of said elements.

This fact was less significant than it might seem: though the Sisters each took only one or two lovers a century, and only occasionally chose to have children by them, the twenty-five centuries Celestia and fifteen centuries Luna had spent incarnate in their forms on Earth meant that they were ancestral to most of the Ponies in modern Equestria

And now I imagine House Blueblood as one of the few who actually aren't.

There would be some irony of cosmic proportions if the one guy known as Celestia's nephew wasn't actually related to her when most of Equestria is.

6900078

I didn't downvote anything you wrote or commented!

6899636

There you go. I just upvoted that comment.

Not much of a story, I'm afraid... but an excellent look into very cool worldbuilding ideas. :trollestia: You clearly have a lot of stuff thought up, here, expanding on what the show has given us. Definitely an interesting read!

Alas, poor Celestia, she clearly is her own worst critic!

An interesting take and a peek into something fascinating and grand.

So headcanon-y, so fanon-y, downright meta at times. This was delicious. More please?

I'd love to see a sequel in the same style, with an introspective take on that Nightmare Night.

6901110 I'd love to see that sequel too!

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