I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.
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This story is a sequel to Teacher Zero
Mid-October, YOH 1503 (Season 3, between "Spike At Your Service" and "Keep Calm And Flutter On"):
Celestia calls Luna to her chambers to tell her about Celestia's new and dangerous plan. What will Luna do, now that her time to do it may be running out?
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yet again you get a like and a track from me, Jordan. Still hoping to see some pick up/a sequel to post-traumatic, to see an advancement of the Twi/Luna relationship, at least to see the moment they make it official.
2 years down the pike, and A Meeting by Moonlight's still my favorite piece in the fandom. hell, it got me into fimfiction inthe first place.
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I will eventually do more post Post-Traumatic (Season 5+ and post Show) Luna stories. One thing I still haven't done yet is a story set around "Do Princesses Dream of Electric Sheep" -- obviously, in the SWSV, that's an important moment in Luna's character development. And there's a lot which has to happen between anything I've shown in the Show Seasons era and the future of Twelfth Equestriad Interview.
I'm seriously honored to hear that you liked "A Meeting by Moonlight" that much. It was the first really good story I did for this fandom -- Trinity developed into something decent but was at first a rather incoherent notiono. It's in some ways the first really good story I did on the West Coast, since my East Coast writing days in the early 1990's. So I'm proud of it.
Thank you.
I've read and like some of your previous stories, and I really want to know, why are you writing this like an English lit professor?
Literally half of the story was Luna reminiscing about past adventures, in somehow the most boring tone I can imagine.
I don't know how else to put it, the general tone seems way off from something like, say, "Royal Business"
You brought up alarajrogers, have you read "not the hero" Discord is fighting against a human in Equestria, but the human is unconsciously twisting reality to make Discord his enemy, and that really, *really* pisses him off. Absolutely fantastic characterization.
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I write different stories in somewhat different styles. This is a story essentially about Luna and Celestia's relationship as sisters, and very different hopes, fears and style (as we see, Luna's fundamentally pessimistic for all her flamboyant courage, while Celestia's optimistic -- which I think fits for Gravity and Fusion). It's true Slice of Life, in that the key event in it is Luna's decision to ... well, that happens in the second chapter so it's not up. But I think from its listed immediate sequel it's obvious what she decides to do, and from what Celestia just told her, why she decides to do it, just then. It's what she didn't want to do at the start of All The Way Back -- largely because she's afraid of rejection, which in turn is largely because she loathes herself, which in turn is because of ... well, it's not so much because of Nightmare Moon, as it is because of the sequence of events by which she first became corrupted.
Anyway, I'm still going to finish it.
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Oh yes ... Not the Hero is a i example of taking someone else's silly premise (Human goes to Equestria and becomes the Ultimate Hero of Everything and Beloved By All He Wishes To Be Loved By) and showing how fundamentally horrible it would be if the whole world got twisted enough for it to happen. To the point where Discord, who at worst is an overly powerful and insufficiently mature being, is the hero by comparison with Anon. Ironically, this appears to be without Anon doing anything consciously-evil, though his love of cruel violence shows that he's not at all a nice guy, no matter what he imagines himself to be.
Everyone should read that story as well. I just thought I should credit Alara J Rogers for showing how Discord could accidentally kill something as powerful as Princess Luna without even meaning to do so. Understand, Alicorns are really hard to kill -- about the only thing that could accomplish it by accident would be another Alicorn.
You can see an example of just how hard I think Alicorns are to kill in All The Way Back, especially Chapter 11 "Battling."
Why do I imagine her as sounding like someone with her hand caught in the cookie jar?
I don't know why, but I love the idea of Celestia mentally curating a staggering collection of profanity across the eons.
Definite shades of the Tantibus and the guilt that led to its creation lurking in the narration. It'll be some time yet before Luna finishes forgiving herself.
Celestia referring to alternate worldlines by their authors feels very weird. (Especially that one, because as card game-laden as my imagination is, I can't help but think that the Alara Variation involves Discord splitting the universe into fifths.) It's certainly an effective way to distinguish the different possibilities, but I can't help but wonder where Celestia got the name.
Still, definitely looking forward to Celly's justification for letting out their old playmate, and all the ways she'll twist Lulu into accepting it.
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I could very easily see Celestia accumulating this knowledge, and also feeling very inhibited against using it. Except when she really relaxes -- and maybe gets more than a little bit drunk. At times like that I could see her rattling it off triumphantly, and laughing gleefully at the feat.
Luna, for her part, is not particularly potty-mouthed, but sometimes she feels the need to relieve her emotions. Dead languages are useful for that purpose. I've already shown her doing something similar (though in affection rather than frustration) toward Twilight Sparkle in Post-Traumatic.
Yes ... Luna still feels horribly guilty about her past actions at this point. She's just gotten better at concealing her emotions, and of course she has serious work with which to distract herself from depression. This includes both her rebellion as Nightmare Moon -- and the things she did that led her to that point.
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Same here, dear lady.
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She can manipulate Luna, but Luna knows what she's doing. A Sister gets to know one well in over fifteen hundred years together.
Good stuff! but there are some spelling
It should be.
Then her smile faded. She still had to confront Celestia over whatever potentially-catastrophic plan her sister had conceived. And she greatly feared that -- after that conversation -- the last thing she would want to do with her was form a merry company and have a drinking-bout.
Firming her resolve, Luna put on her best torc and some light sabatons, touched up her eyeshadow (Luna had always been partial to eye-shadow as beautifully-dramatic), and strode through the corridors of the Palace to the chambers of her Sister.
In all, a well-reasoned scene between sisters with a lovely ending. There isn't much here beyond the argument, but it makes for a great prelude to A Meeting by Moonlight. Thank you for it.
7251443 Yes, but then she would be Solaria Invective, and it just doesn't flow as well.
I certainly agree with you about the excellence of Alarajrogers' work, but in the case of The Elements of Opposition, I must add a warning: it gets very dark. As such, in spite of its brilliance, it cannot be recommended to everyone, for the same reason A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) cannot be recommended to everyone.
I am not exaggerating: it really does get that dark. It is not for the young or the faint hearted.
On a different topic, I am quite enjoying this fic. I love the interactions here between the two sisters. I shall read on!
It was a near-run thing."
The she CREATED a savior from herself... and then she lost her child.
And dude, THANK YOU for including my work. Thank you. I very very very very much appreciate it. And if you've been keeping up with the pony pov series, you know that what you've written here is either rather fitting or ironic!
7251443
Blasphemy. It would be sevenths or seventeenths. Wizards of the Coast will be hearing from my lawyers, any decade now. :-)
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Oh yes, it's a very dark story. Both in terms of how cruelly the alternate-Discord first abuses everypony else -- and then how very evil Opposition Twilight and her friends become because they have been warped by his actions. And what's worse, it's not even a direct magical warp, more a morally-corruptive influence.
You get to see it very strongly both from the point of view of our Discord, who gets horribly-tortured by the Opposition Six, especially Opposition-Fluttershy; and from the utterly-horrified Mane Six, especially Harmony-Fluttershy. And the worst of it is that it's very painfully obvious that Opposition-Fluttershy loves Discord -- it's just that her very ability to love has been twisted into something utterly horrible.
All the Opposition Six are like that, each in their own specially-awful way. I have a lot of sympathy for Opposition-Spike, who actually hasn't been all that corrupted, but is simply as loyal as he can remain to his friends, whom he knows have fallen into nightmares of evil and corruption, and which he clearly has no good idea how to save. Opposition-Spike still loves them, more than they can love each other or maybe even themselves any more -- and he can't do much more than watch helplessly.
As for Celestia, she's gone utterly-mad, but with her supernal intellect and vast lore still present, which only makes her all the more insane and dangerous. And Luna, of course, is dead, which is why Celestia's gone insane -- that and the fact that she knows it was Discord's fault, and Alara's Celestia also loved Discord. This is what Celestia looks like when she's lost all hope of anything like a happy outcome. It's not at all pretty.
There's a reason why the thought of that outcome gives my Celestia pause.
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I can just see some alternate universe in which Celestia did go Lone-Mad, but instead of becoming Tyrantlestia or even Molestia, she just randomly interjects extremely-obscene phrases into her every utterance.
It's pretty much a certainty that it couldn't happen here, because Cadance is Cadance and not Chrysalis, and presumably Luna and Cadance have already gotten to know each other. Chrysalis would have had no real knowledge of Luna, nor motivation to try to save her, but Cadance wields the specific weapon that can destroy Nightmare Moon's hold on Luna -- the power to make Luna feel that she is loved. It being her particular domain, she could probably outpower Discord's deharmonization, even if he were focusing on maintaining it, which he probably wasn't. Celestia + Cadance > Nightmare Moon, who was slightly more than a match for Celestia alone and could have mopped the floor with unicorn Twilight, and Cadance has magic specifically attuned to Nightmare Moon's weakness. So if Discord did try the same stunt, it wouldn't last. And three alicorns would have had a much better hope of purging the contamination that Discord introduced into the Elements than one alicorn did, particularly since Luna and Cadance are both more adept with Chaos than Celestia is (dreams and love are both chaotic; in your universe Luna is Gravity, and Gravity's not more chaotic than Fusion -- probably signficantly less so -- but in this incarnation Luna has power over dreams.)
But how does Celestia know my name?... Celestia, you're creepy. Stop stalking me. :-)
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That was a very complex point, and I had to read it over a few times before I realized that -- yes, you're right, and that's probably one of the reasons why Celestia considers the Alara Variation a negligibly low probability outcome of her plan to release Discord.
Very insightful point there, and you're right. I alluded to it myself in Nightmares Are Tragic -- the Nightmare can't control Luna if she feels strong Love, because love is toxic to the Night Shadows, and when Luna realizes that Twilight Sparkle is the reincarnation of Dusk Skyshine, whom she greatly loved, it shatters the Shadow's hold on her mind, and once that's broken, she can realize that her true self loves Celestia, loves Equestria, and loves Ponykind -- and that consequently those who think they are fighting her are in truth her friends rather than foes. That's when she really starts consciuosly Fighting From The Inside against the Nightmare (during the whole story, though, her better nature is subconsciously fighting against it, though, which is why she manages to avoid killing anypony).
For Celestia to be driven to kill Luna, which is about the last thing she ever wants to do, she would have to have no choice, meaning that she'd have to be fighting a Luna who was going all-out against her and was killing or threatening to kill a lot of other Ponies if the fight continued. That's what actually happened in my version of Luna's Banishment as briefly shown in Royal Business -- when Luna fought Celestia, Nightmare Moon was loosing her gravity lances freely and devastating the Foreverfree City in the process of trying to kill Celestia. Celestia avoided killing Nightmare Moon (or being killed by her) by using the Elements against her instead. Celestia did not have the option of simply continuing to dodge for a number of reasons, one of which was that she eventually would have been hit again and again and again and been killed; and another of which that every time she was dodging, other Ponies were dying from Nightmare Moon's wild and callous use of power.
But one big difference in my chronology is that Luna returned in YOH 1500, Discord broke loose in YOH 1501, but Celestia is proposing to release him in YOH 1503, two years later. This is important because Luna has had two more years to regain her sanity and self-confidence. This is two years in which Luna has been making friends and coming to love the new version of Equestria. Luna would be much harder to push back into Nightmare in 1503 than she had been in 1501 -- you will notice that Luna gets pretty pissed at Celestia in their argument, and yet displays no hint of insanity -- even the most aggressive thing she says (her "I suffer neither fools nor knaves gladly" rant) is part of a rational argument against lowering moral standards just to accommodate Celestia's emotional desire to pardon Discord, rather than any real expression of a desire on her part to start killing Ponies. She makes a similar argument, also involving Discord, in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason.
So late Season Three Luna would be harder to Discord than was early Season Two Luna, and if she was pushed toward Nightmare, she has more friends, mostly notably Cadance, who could try and likely succeed in bringing her out of it. This very much includes Twilight Sparkle, who was key to Luna's initial liberation from the Nightmare, and with whom her friendship has deepened since Season One. For that matter, Twilight and all the Element Bearers are also now stronger and more skilled and confident; Discord would find them harder to attack as well (as we actually see in "Keep Calm and Flutter On," when Celestia gets to carry out the plan).
It's a matter of them being changed in their Incarnations by the magical and psychic force of how their Concepts are perceived by the mortals among whom they are incarnated. In the Age of Creation the Sun was seen as a mystical creative force, so Epona Ameterasu the Sun Mare was a goddess of civilization and enlightenment. In the Age of Wonders, they had a good idea of what both Fusion and Gravity were, and so Sundreamer was a scientist who developed fusion reactors, and Moondreamer an engineer who designed aircraft and missiles and spacecraft. In the time after the Cataclysm, the Sun was Light and Gravity perceived through the Moon and the Moon was connected to dreams, which is why Celestia came out as rather similar to Epona Amaterasu the Sun Mare, and Luna wound up with creepy mystical dreamy powers.
I got the idea of Luna's gravity lances from the depiction of the fight between Celestia and Luna, both in "Princess Twilight Sparkle" and in my favorite version of "Lullaby for a Princess." Bolts of what look like darkness that cleave right through fairly tough solid matter (the walls of a fortress) with incredible ease. To me, that says a graviton-based shearing plane, right out of E. E. "Doc" Smith. And so Luna has them, though sane-Luna understands that these are forces one uses only against a major-class foe and only if no friendlies are anywhere near the line of fire.
Nightmare Moon gives far less of a damn.
Interesting wrap up. And good writing as always. And the irony is that it's Nightmare Eclipse, not Discord, who ends up being the TRUE monster of Dark World, so hell bent on punishing the wicked she doesn't see she's become the wicked.
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Celestia's point when she accused Luna of a biased understanding of events in that worldline. I didn't go into that much detail because I didn't want to put major spoilers for your novel into the actual text of my short story.
7256314 OK that could actually be a funny short story, especially if it followed the pre-reformed Sunset Shimmer as the viewpoint character. It could be absolutely hilarious.
All in all an interesting story. What I like, it showed the old sun butt is now taking her sister seriously, even when she disagrees with her. I also like that even when arguing like this, there's no hint that Luna is going to go nightmare again.
What I didn't like: the story felt a bit bland only because as a reader I knew that Celestia was going to win the argument and everything was going to turn out alright. Therefor there wasn't much tension. But that's no fault of your own so, I'll be waiting for the next one.
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Glad you noticed that. They've both learned from their past mistakes. Celestia isn't cutting her sister out of the important discussions, treating her like a deadly but unbeautiful weapon to be taken out in wartime and put away and ignored in peacetime. And Luna isn't just holding back on her thoughts and opinions until she explodes in rage.
Yeah, I'm pretty much limited by this being an interquel whose outcome is already known.
7256629
Understand, while it's not quite "Twlight can do no wrong!" on Luna's part (she's too experienced in how even the best Ponies can screw up to take that attitude), SWSV Luna is a major Twilight Sparkle fan and tends to give her the benefit of the doubt. (I was very surprised in the "Siege of the Crystal Empire" IDW Comics story line when they actually had Luna say "I would follow you anywhere!" and then later shock Twilight by whispering some probably bawdy comment regarding Sombra and Radiant, because it was so much like the way I would have written my Luna's interactions with Twilight Sparkle).
So yes, SWSV Luna tends to see the events of "Dark World" as being almost purely Discord's fault, rather than Twilight's, because of her prejudices. SWSV Celestia is quite right about that. Though PonyPOVerse Luna may have a more a balanced appraisal of the situation.
"neutalized" should be "neutralized".
This chapter brings up the issue of headcanon:
I have a friend hating the redemption of Discord because Discord is a monster. Mine headcanon sees preredemption Discord as an entity trying to have a good time without malice, unaware of the misery he causes, seeing the Princesses as joykills; thus, Fluttershy teaching Discord empathy and reforming Discord makes sense. ¡Everypony has a different Discord in headcanon!
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Maybe a little of both. SWSV Discord, after Pony POVerse Discord, is an Incarnation of a Cosmic Concept, Discord or Dissonance. Dissonance is actually a friend of Fusion and Gravity; the trio form new stars and make them shine.
Fusion has become fascinated by mortals and especially the Ponies, so she Incarnated as Celestia. So did Gravity and Dissonance, who became Luna and Discord. Celestia, however, handles Incarnate life better than does her Sister and their best friend.
Part of what's wrong with Discord is that he powered-up before Incarnating, by among other things consuming his brother Destruction. The power has driven him mad. And he wasn't the sanest Concept to start.
Discord was raised Pony and fundamentally likes (even loves) Ponies. He wants to play with them.
Unfortunately, he sometimes plays too rough.
7256314 7257216 I wonder, though, how much of Celestia's extensive profanity collection would even be intelligible to a modern pony, even one as learned and sharp-tempered as Sunset Shimmer? Of course, that might drive Nightmare Sunspot to even greater (and just as futile) efforts...
Hmm, this might make a decent comedy after all. The climax, of course, would be the return of Luna who does understand just about everything in the collection...
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That would actually be pretty funny. A mad Celestia trying to teach her students dead languages just so they could understand her dirty phrases.
I... am... confused. I think I'm missing context. Soooo freakin' much of it. You throw names and places and events around and I barely recognize any of it. It feels like this is part of a larger series, way larger - and if it is, there should be a hint or warning or something within the description of the story. I don't even know how to start asking all those questions I have, because there's so damn many of them - and to be honest, given how little context you provide, I don't even know if I should bother.
Sooo... yeah. Context or a hint in the description would be nice.
Oh and I remember the first chapter having some mistakes, switched up letters, missing ones, too, minor stuff like that, but quite a lot of it.
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It's all -- like every one of my stories on this site -- part of the Shadow Wars Story Verse. Story is clearly labeled as part of a series (which is more than I can say for every story I've written). The Luna Arc so far is in order:
1. Nightmares Are Tragic (complete novella)
2. All The Way Back (mostly complete long novella)
3. Royal Business (half-complete novella)
4. "Teacher Zero" (complete long short story)
5. "Advance Warning" (complete long short story)
6. "A Meeting by Moonlight" (complete short story)
7. "Feeling Adrift" (complete short story but needs minor editing for consistency with "Advance Warning")
8. Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason (incomplete novel)
9. Post-Traumatic (complete short novel).
All have Twilight x Luna as a theme or subtheme, and Royal Business, Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason and Post-Traumatic also Spike x Rarity.
7265360 OK now I'm picturing Her trying to teach Twilight of all ponies to curse... Or worse/funnier teaching her the languages, which I can see her picking up, and then realizing that her beloved mentor is cursing worse then a drunken sailor all the time...
I do like this chapter quite a bit.. The back and forth between Celestia and Luna reminds me of some of the Batman-Superman arguments I've read over the years, the well-done ones where both characters are written properly and acting intelligently. I can certainly see why Celestia is going to do what she does, though I have to admit I myself would be on Luna's side. Setting a carelessly cruel reality warper loose with next to no way to control his behavior still strikes me as a very bad idea. Even if it did go the best way possible in the end.
7256314 That could go from nasty to hilarious if the obscene phrases were mostly incomprehensible not just to the ponies, but to the reader.
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I actually have a lot of sympathy for Luna -- both her emotions and her reasons -- in this story. And Celestia.
The fundamental disagreement they have is the degree to which Dissy survives within the current Discord. Luna is a pessimist, and Celestia an optimist, on this issue.
Celestia's strategy is questionable. Literally -- it's not totally insane, it's just taking a rather large risk if things go wrong.
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They would be if I didn't translate them enough, by which I mean that the colloquialisms and cultural assumptions might be different. I've already done this with "Nosey," which is a far more obscene insult to the Ponies than to us, because of where the stallion is unwantedly nosing.
I wonder how Celestia and Luna feel about manipulating other ponies through their plans like this?
In any case, the ending was touching. Luna, reaching out to a new, friend, an old lover, and trying to forge ties with both.
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In this case, Luna actually shows more fear of other Ponies being hurt than does Celestia. Of course, Celestia has the most emotional interest in taking the risk to reform Discord.
I'm glad you liked the way this story turned out.
7356815 This is probably why Luna was so quick to beat Celestia over the head verbally.
I'd like to see more interactions of Luna and Twilight in this 'verse. I will definitely read the further stories.
Ah, Celestia... you ****ing IDIOT! You naive, arrogant piece of trash.
It's... difficult, to not outright dismiss Celestia's position as reckless and stupid. Canon!Discord was a selfish, cruel ***hole, but this one is a mass-murderer on top of everything.
Then again, this Luna is also a mass-murderer, so... does it balance out? Maybe.