Everypony knows the Hearth’s Warming Eve tale of tribal unity and the shared rule which followed. Everypony also knows that alicorns - singular or dual - have sat on Equestria’s throne for well over a thousand years.
Very few have really looked in to what actually happened between those points.
Even Twilight Sparkle, until a chance encounter leads her to an alarming discovery: Neither she, nor any other alicorn, has actually held any legal right to Equestria’s throne. They are technically usurpers, autocrats - even tyrants.
Still struggling with her own personal rule, having the fundamental basis for her authority swept from beneath her leaves Twilight with one simple, yet impossible question:
Now what?
Many thanks to Commawriter and Kirtai for pre-reading!
Cover image was edited by Vinylshadow. They deserve all credit for it!
I'll be honest, my first impulse is that these Triumviratists have not been adequately oppressed. They're arguing a technicality from at least 2000 years ago. It's like claiming that the current Egyptian president is illegitimate because he is not the lawful heir of Cleopatra.
If Celestia and Luna's ascent to sovereign rulership was invalid, then that was something that should have been stopped by the triumvirate thousands of years ago. There is a reason why laws contain concepts like Laches, Statute of Limitations and Adverse Possession. Do you have any idea what madness could be caused if one could bring up ancient history to claim that the modern state of affairs is illegal?
11875845
Trust me, people have tried. There was one case in the UK where the defendant cited a law from 1666 as evidence he didn't need to pay tax. He was promptly told to stop talking rubbish.
Logically of course, Discord is the rightful ruler by right of conquest :p
Separately, Twilight could quite reasonably claim divine mandate of Harmony, though she’s probably not the type to do so (incidentally, the alternative candidate is once again Discord)
The idea of the story is fun, because this can be solved with a simple
Twilight: Celestia!
Celestia: what?
Twilight: I just discovered that we have no right to the throne! Are we usurpers?
Celestia: ...what is it? Wait, I think I understand what you mean, Twilight, Luna and I didn’t start ruling because we usurped the throne, we did because at the time after we sealed Discord there was no way to prove any legitimate ruler so we had to get everything in order, when we had a functioning governmental system and wanted to withdraw, the peasant Ponys and the nobles did not leave us and we became the rulers of equestria, we do not call ourselves Queens because we are not legitimate and we decided to call ourselves princesses until we find a legitimate descendant... But Blueblood is not fit to rule
Twilight: Ah...
The biggest question, of course, is where the right to rule comes from. From a charter? Many have been drafted since the crux of the Triumviratists’ argument. From the people? Countless generations of ponies prospering under Celestia’s rule gave any legitimacy her first years might have lacked. From a divine source? Harmony has literally crafted itself in Twilight’s image.
Twilight may have found an extremely convoluted loophole, but in practice, she doesn’t have
a way to escapeto worry.(And, of course, there’s the question of what proposed triumvirate would be fit to rule. And whether they’d have to handle the sun and moon. And really, the Triumviratists are tribalist. Specifically against alicorns.)
Looking forward to seeing where you go with this.
And then, Pinkie Pie turns out to be direct descendant of Princess Platinum...
Definitely looks like an interesting premise.
Generally agree with other commenters that this thing going back for ~2000 years is a bit of a... stretch, but that doesn't have to be the case. There's multiple ways to go around that. For example, I can imagine that at first, the Princesses ruled with some sort of an approval, a formal mandate from the tribes' representatives, who could even have been nominal rulers. There might've been some official act or cermony that renewed the mandate every few decades; but as centuries passed, they simply stopped bothering with that, and only a small group of legal literalists remained.
Idk pretty sure Celestia has squatter's rights after a 1000 years.
Anyone else would consider this not this worth worrying about, but remember this is Twilight we're talking about. Princess of OCD.
Hmm interesting start so far.
And I agree with other comments. Even if the rule of the Alicorns was illegitimate. It’s been over 1,000 years. Equestria has prospered under their leadership.
And sure they have made some decisions over the years that are questionable but what rule has not made any mistakes at all?
At this point in time it’s basically too late. This has been the norm for a millennia.
Basically 99% of the population agrees with the rule of the Alicorn’s and so does the wider world accept them as Equestria’s rulers.
As far as I see they have no right nor ground to stand on when it comes to saying that the Alacorns are Tyrants and usurpers.
So the question now becomes. How will they escalate this preserved problem?
I will wait and see.
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It's always amusing to see someone appeal to an outdated law or other legal authority, without remembering that authority only exists insofar as it is enforced.
Appealing to the dead authority of a prior government and expecting the current government to capitulate is utter nonsense. Governments don't derive a 'right to rule' based on some universal authority passed down from regime to regime.
The alicorns control the treasury.
The alicorns control the army.
The alicorns control the bureaucracy.
The alicorns control the state functions.
The alicorns command the loyalty of the nobility and the citizenry.
The alicorns have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence within Equestria.
The alicorns have the power to imprison anyone who challenges their right to rule.
It doesn't matter what a technically from a thousand years ago says. The alicorns are legitimate in all the ways that matters.
11876709
yes, though Twi is one who likes technicalities, and law also really likes technicalities, and in general Equestria tries to resolve its issues without political prisoners
11875845
It is a touch different because the Sisters are, in fact, something more than mere political leadership, and so installing yourself as dictator for life is a little different when it's actually "dictator for eternal life". But yes, the Triumviratists are very much meant to be rather absurd, written in the mold of various real-world fringe crazies.
Like 11875877 said, there are people who do this stuff.
11876179 gonna have to ask you to stop reading my mind, as some of this is directly brought up in the next chapter!
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On top of everything else there's the question of what the Sisters actually are. It's a little intimidating to say 'no' to them, although some might argue that doesn't do much for their actual legitimacy as leaders.
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Yup. Another pony might have laughed it off, but Twilight - well, she's detail oriented to begin with, and she has reasons on top of that for this issue to touch a nerve.
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Listen -- strange ponies lying about in celestial bodies distributing unification is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical sunlight ceremony.
It's a good question. What right does Twilight have to rule? Does she have the right because she's "racially superior" to everyone else? Does she have the right because she raises the sun and moon? Does she have the right simply because "that's the way it has always been"? Does she have the right because she is a "god"?
If you want legitimacy, the only real way to get it is to elect the ruler, but I highly doubt that Twilight is going to do that. As long as she is unelected, she is a tyrant (But a nice tyrant, I guess)
For Twilight to get hung up on such accusation is simply nonsensical and speaks of her inexperience, but I guess if you leave in the void ideas of coronation and succession, quasi-religious aspects of unification behind a ruler, and the fact that alicorns seem to be walking amalgamations of all three tribes (and ponies do not really know alternatives to their rule), and if you generally allow for ponies to adopt a more modern worldview, I suppose it can work.
Raven:"Using my own words against me? What an utterly politician move to use . . we will make a proper ruler out of you yet"
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Are they? Remember the alicorns don't actually control any of those. Its the regular ponies at the top who wield the actual authority. And those ponies could easily give their loyalty to Equastria as a whole and whatever established government was established. It very well might be a case of where for a thousand years no pony asked why the princesses ruled. Initially it would be due to being too busy and grateful for some sort of structure while rebuilding after Discord, then it could have been out of fear of being seen as ungrateful/ "weird"/ etc. And after a thousand-plus years it would just be one of those "everyone knows this is true because everyone knows its true" things. Like how the Earth was the center of the universe until some enterprising individuals realized that the behavior of the planets was easiest explained if the system was centered on the sun.
Ah, circular logic right there. "They have the right to rule because they have always had the right to rule" does not answers the question of who or what gave them the authority in the first place. Even Caeser was appointed dictator by Rome's senate whose authority ultimately came from the population as a whole.
Definetly shaping up to be a fine start. Should be... intersting to see how an OCD untrained teachers-pet handles a situation that A) doesn't conform to a neat solution written down in a book and B) finding out that her mother-figure might just not have been as squeaky clean perfect as she thought. Even more so if she asks Sunset Shimmer for help. Can you imagine Toollight's reaction to finding out that humans generally consider absolute monarchy a silly old-fashioned concept? Or that most human societies that have a basic respect for life, individuals, etc are some form of representative democracy while those with absolute leaders often turn out to as oppressive as Sombra or worse.
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Sorry but I had to laugh at the last part of this specifically this lmao
"most human societies that have a basic respect for life, individuals, etc are some form of representative democracy"
hahahhahahha, no, maybe 50 years ago, certainly not since the 2000s and onwards, there's not a single country which fits that criteria left anymore
The answer is simple since Discord dissolved the government (the buidlings might be literally dissolved) and there were no others than Celestia and Luna to take over after Discord was defeated. No members of the previous government were sane enough (or alive depending on how long Discord's chaos lasted which nobody knows since there was no way of keeping time) to agree or object.
Rule 34 of power: Act like a King to be treated like one.
If Twilight doesn't believe that she has the right to rule, then why should anyone else believe that she does.
She is trapped in a vicious feedback loop of doubt. She doubts herself too much to assert her authority, which causes others to doubt her authority, which causes her herself too much, etc.
The power of the alicorns has been entrenched for a thousand years. She is the DEFACTO ruler of Equestria and she needs to start acting like it.
She needs to tell the triumviratists that she is in charge and if they don't like that, then they can go pound sand or go to jail.
See, there’s a thing here about the authority not particularly being given, in particular since the prior governments didn’t really exist. Obviously rl natioms occasionally have that sort of thing, and get on fine. But, in continuing my Discord notes, did they possibly (willingly or otherwise) cede of that power to him in some form - certainly seems like something he might have done (if he’d noticed their governments).
The fact Twilight is freaking out about this kind of technicality makes sense. That her cabinet is taking this so serious, rather less so.
The fact there might not have been a nice and legitimate transfer of power all those years ago is meaningless now. The Diarchy rules by right of conquest, even if it was conquest by the velvet glove rather then the steel fist. Good odds the diarchy even has a far longer reign to draw legitimacy from then the triumvirate ever had by now.
With the description of the status of the world as described, a real argument could even be made that the triumvirate was just outright death, with the diarchy being born from it's ashes.
This is not really about legalism and legitimacy, is it? Twilight is obsessed about this because she feels she isn't worthy.
Might makes right. Twiggles is a demigod, so can rule with sheer force. Who cares what the mortals think? Twilight could jist refuse to move the heavens unless they agree to serve.
I've been seeing a lot of comments on this story saying twilight should just brute force this. Do any of them even know Twilight's character? You know; by the books, super ocd, second guesses herself a surprising amount of times and that's not even mentioning how desperately she tries to have everyone get along. Proving that she is the rightful ruler would not only help her get these fringe ponies in line but also help her own feelings of doubt. But since everyone here wants her to be "generic ruler #307", here is a great way to deal with this problem; just don't say anything. It took the complete unfettered access of all equestrian records/high government bodies to even gleam the things she found and this is over a thousand years after the fact. No one else is going to find this out. If there ever was a ruler that would throw the legitimacy of their own rule into question due to a lack of evidence supporting its rise/transfer, it would be Twilight Sparkle.
That being said, to the writer I must say that this story has utterly captivated me and I cant wait for more. Keep up the amazing work!
Right to the throne? Pfftt, silly Twilight... GODS DO NOT NEED PERMISSION!!!
I'm back in agreement with the majority criticism here. What is a legitimate government in the absence of any other legitimate government? Whatever gets popular support. This is a non-issue.
Plus, they even talk about a unicorn treaty - with whom, exactly? A treaty is by definition a recognition of all involved parties' authority.
It does make sense that Twilight in particular could get hyperfocused on this letter-of-the-law aspect, but like another comment said, the rest of the cabinet should've known better.
The " > " at the end.
The princess's being no where to be found really does leave the impression they left twlight holding the bag of ruling Equstria and legging it
Given Discord's involvement, there's another angle to slice the Gordian knot: The previous governments didn't formally cede power to the princesses because they had collapsed. It's very hard to have a reigning council when the spirit of chaos and disharmony just turned your constitution into a sour gummy ribbon. Frankly, it's amazing that any records from prior to his emergence survived (and a good question of how legitimate those documents actually are.)
But that isn't the point. The unrecorded transfer of power has lain bare Twilight's continuing unease on the throne (and I have some questions about Hive Coccinellus. Though I'm not surprised that Twilight let plague rage through the ladybug hive.
) And if it matters to her, it matters to the rest of the council. Especially if there's even the slimmest chance that the triumviratists could put Blueblood in any kind of legitimate rulership position. The most important thing here isn't Equestria recognizing Twilight's fitness to rule, but Twilight herself.
And, you know, getting that on paper now that the world isn't in a post-chaos hangover.
(Also, my question from the previous chapter still stands: What gave those prior governments the legitimacy to declare a successor legitimate? What is the ultimate source of the right to rule?)
Twilight really shouldn't get worked up by those irrelevant details. The real problem is obviously that she has no faith in herself as ruler.
Quite the interesting "Celestia / Twilight is a tyrant" story.
You've got a bit of body and substance to this, and it is on my Favourite list
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The reason they have to take it seriously is because Twilight is. The one who holds the authority is questioning it. That gives the ability for others to question it, and so their positions rest on Twilight's right of authority.
It's well proven in the comments that Celestia would not be affected by this in the slightest. She knew about the Triums for over 1000 years and cared nothing for them, so know could use it against her. She did not give power of their Legitimacy. Twilight is giving power to the Question.
Also, I love Raven and you do such a wonderful job with her Author. Many thanks for making her strong and caring, like Celestia picked her or something.
Intriguing.
Continue.
Good story. Why is this tagged as Comedy?
It's said that the highest approval rating a ruler can honestly have is 60%. Anything greater than that is lying propaganda. However Twilight has a couple unique circumstances. Tirek and the Storm King. Everypony in Equestria experienced the trauma of having their magic stolen. Who got that magic back? Princess Twilight Sparkle and her friends the Guardian's of Harmony. The vast majority of the population of Canterlot including all of it's assorted movers and shakers were captured and caged by The Storm Fleet. Who is responsible for freeing them all? Twilight Sparkle and her friends the Guardian's of Harmony. While Wheatberry* has demonstrated some ponies do have Marvel Citizen levels of ingratitude I suspect they're a small minority. I think if Twilight did ask Equestria to vote for her legitimacy she probably really could get 90% or more of the vote.
*Come to think of it Twilight probably should have her escorted out of Canterlot by the guard. Because since she pulled her act of blatant disrespect in front of hundreds of witnesses there's a decent chance she could be facing down an angry vigilante mob at some point.
The right to governor is granted by those who are governed. The Triumvirate didn't make it's case when they had the chance and the majority accepted Alicorn rule for thousands of years. The people recognized it as legitimate for long enough that it became so. If the ponies of Equestria elected a leader and an Alicorn was in the running the Alicorn would win by a land slide. Subconsciously as equines the Ponies respect the biggest and strongest of them, and as thinking animals they respect wisdom and intelligence.
Now of course that doesn't mean this story is bad, becoming obsessed over details and technicalities is Twilight all over! She would totally fail to see the vast majority of ponies would if given the choice would happily vote that they accept the Princesses as thier legitimate rulers.
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Exactly, the idea is silly. The population has accepted the Princesses rule, they are the rulers by Majority Consensus. The people of Equestria have every right to say "We don't care if the Triumvirate didn't cross all the t's and dot all the i's, thier our rulers because we say so!" But Twilight is known for getting hung up on this sort of thing! She will panic and let it drive her crazy!
I have no idea who Twilight might want to speak in the Crystal Empire. Rarity's statement about the throne not being immutable is pretty much the only good advice Twilight has received since the story has started.
Pretty sure Cadence's rule can't be Questioned because she rules the Crystal Empire, the Crystal Ponies recognized her as the Crystal Princess and most likely she is descended from Empress Amore. Her rule is legitimate and Shining Armor's Prince Consort title is as well.
Nice you covered the minorities in Equestria. Thestrals bow to Luna and where told to listen to Twilight, and despite some strong dislike for her don't have have a stake here. Every other species is considered a foreign national, their rulers will support who they signed a treaty with.
The comedy is what the core of the issue is, no one from the Earth Pony or Unicorn sides bothered to write down the agreement only the Pegasus Military Bureaucracy did.
Twilight could call for a constitutional convention. She could say with total honesty that the foundational laws of Equestria are patchy and improvised as a result of the Age Of Chaos and ponies focusing on not starving rather than establishing iron-clad legal precedent. In an age that is increasingly complex, cosmopolitan, and internationally connected she thinks Equestria needs something a bit more solid and the longer they wait the harder and messier it’s going to get. If the new constitution just happens to nail down what an Alicorn Princess’ authority actually is, well that’s what constitutions are for.
This is incredible and I eagerly look forward to every chapter. Thanks for all the hard work.
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This.
Heh. The sisters have a hoofmade Cloudstone Curio.
”Once was enough. Arguably twice. Maybe three times if you count the mirror portal.”
“There’s a saga untold.”
“Get back to me after I’ve pinned down the legitimacy of my rule.”
In any case, Rarity definitely provided some helpful insights. Written legislation isn’t as unshakeable and immutable as the laws of physics (never mind how much flexibility Twilight can get out of those.) I’m not sure who Twilight will turn to in the Empire, but I find myself wondering if her niece will get involved.
Looking forward to more.
Yeah, talking to Rarity (and hopefully her other friends) will give her ideas on where to go. And if she's going to the Crystal Empire I'm guessing it's to see her brother? Who is the most levelheaded of the lot.
And yeah, some sort of constitutional or legislative convention to hash these sorts of issues out sounds good. Where there's so much informal tradition and things which are lost or have gone on so long out of inertia and the justification forgotten.
Do the ponies even have a legislative body though? I know there are nobles, but not sure about any other form of representation beyond the local towns.
11879371
And thus we come to the true issue of this story: It's not actually about Twilight's legal right to rule. Yes, that's where it starts, but really it's about Twilight's struggling self-confidence. She - for reasons that will be explored as the story wraps up - is truly struggling with convincing herself that she is a worthy successor to Celestia.
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11879407
This is a fair point, and hopefully I addressed it somewhat in the subsequent chapter: Her cabinet, at least in Twilight's eyes, runs with her freakouts because the previous ruler - who Twilight is now a direct successor to in rank, duty, and even body - had a habit of only freaking out about the most serious concerns. Twilight may or may not be living up to this reputation.
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Thank you! I admit, she's one of my more favored side characters, and I tend to write her as a sort of mini-Celestia: Observant, caring, but also with a core of steel when push comes to shove. There'll be more of her before the end.
11886237
We will get there, in a fashion...
11887287
Thank you very much! I just hope the resolution does not disappoint.
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There is an alternate universe where this story is a vastly sillier one - about Twilight traveling through time to force herself into any and every major event and demanding they write that stuff down, damn you! Not because of any emotional vulnerability, but because it irks her to have such key events unrecorded!
Sadly, I write drama better than comedy. Perhaps another time.
*cough cough* AHEM!