Page generated in 0.067 seconds
Total duration
1,030 users online
1,596,457 hits today, 1,872,792 yesterday
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Fanfiction
Designed and coded by knighty & Xaquseg - © 2011-2024
Support us
SubStar
Chat!
Discord
Follow us
Twitter
MLP: Friendship is Magic® - © 2024 Hasbro Inc.®
Fimfiction is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Hasbro Inc.®
Dear literally everything I was doing:
Fuck off and die, you have zero importance to me now.
Sincerely:
Me
"Of course Pipsqueak was crushed to death on account of him being the size of her head, but that doesn't matter!"
"Seriously, my suffering all stems from your actions. Sure I could end my suffering by joining you, but at least own your part of the blame!"
Do you mean nigh?
Que?
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/b1/12/81b112111f6355de35e0f93c29f2b13a--funny-pics-funny-shit.jpg
Wow, I've only seen Celestia fuck up this bad in deliberate 'fuck celestia, she sucks, luna is the only princess that matters' type fics. Ya dun goofed Celestia.
Luna: "We cannot show you our hard evidence until you've officially been brought over to our way of thinking with no way back. Because we're totally not a cult, even though we pretty much act like one." I really wish Twilight would call them out on this.
Wait, hold up. Didn't Luna already tell Twilight about the Tantabus?
Hm. That was during one of her recovered dreams. Day 51. I understand though why Twilight would find that a detail not worth obsessing over when she already has such a rich, varied table of potential nightmare-inducing personal horrors to choose from.
I'm surprised at how badly the shitty rationale they've managed to dupe themselves into makes me want to slam my head into the wall repeatedly.
I find Luna's rationale for her actions very dubious, and the reasons she gives for her "crush" on Twilight Sparkle very shallow. And, mind you, I'm someone who writes Twiluna as one of the grand relationship arcs of the whole Shadow Wars Story Verse, so I'm not averse to shipping them.
Her reasoning boils down to "Casual sex makes everypony like each other better," which is patently untrue among Humans and seems unlikely to be much more true among Ponies. Though I could see a rather insane Luna coming to this conclusion -- in fact, it's one of the standard ways a SWSV Alicorn Avatar can go mad if deprived of the company of peers -- becoming alienated from mortal Ponies, she tries to find in casual sex the fundamental emotional closeness of which she feels deprived.
It's even broader than Alicorns: it's one of the standard trajectories of what I call "Lone-Madness," which can be severe in Ponies as they are a more social species than Humans. Of course, Lone-Madness isn't that common among Ponies most of the time, because, well, they are a more social species than Humans, and rarely have a complete lack of friends.
SWSV Luna instead turns to megaloamania, envy and wrath, which lead directly toward her summoning a Night Shadow into herself and becoming Nightmare Moon. Which isn't exactly an improvement, but is at least more Wagnerian and less Xavier Hollanderian.
Now, as to why Luna might have a crush on Twilight Sparkle -- consider that Twilight Sparkle once did Luna a not inconsiderable favor. She saved Luna from the Nightmare. What's more, she did so in such a way as to very favorably impress Luna with her intelligence, courage and charisma.
While that alone isn't enough to explain it (I'm guessing that Luna is more emotionally complex than "You save me, you get me"), the way in which Twilight than saves Luna from the consequences of her own limited social skills in "Luna Eclipsed," displaying compassion and kindness toward her -- and also showing Luna that she is one of the few modern Ponies who can begin to understand her -- makes Twilight very attractive to her.
This kind of an attraction, more deeply-grounded in history and personality, works better than a "crush." Especially considering the really extreme actions Luna is taking.
What's more, you're representing Luna as being socially-inept to the point of autistic violence. What, a centuries-old Alicorn whose intended beloved already rather likes her can't think of any better way to win her love than to, essentially, overthrow the entire Equestrian moral order and commit treason and rape on a massive scale? Nor can she predict that her very actions might cause some qualms in the mind of her intended?
As for your second-century inverted capture-marriage custom (yes, I know the basis in Human medieval culture on which you founded the notion), I see some problems with it.
First of all, even if we assume that full-grown stallions can't control their erections, even when they are feeling betrayal and hostility toward the mares in question (possible in the SWSV, if the mares are on Cycle), stallions are on the average larger and stronger than mares. It would be very difficult for a single mare to physically-force a stallion to do anything, let alone anything as clumsy in terms of maneuvering them together as forced sex. You would need an armed mare willing to do griveous bodily harm to her victim, or an unusually-powerful mare (Applejack compared to, say, Carrot Cake), or a gang of mares.
In contrast, at least the average man is bigger and stronger than the average woman, and the act of forcibly violating her easier to commit than the reverse crime -- easier both given natural instincts and the physical dynamics of the situation. In a very real sense, male-on-female rape is more natural among mammals than the inverse, and this is true even if the particular culture happens to be matriarchial.
Yes, by making this action legal, you're presumably making resistance to it illegal. But this is an example of the sort of law likely to be widely violated in practice, with the violator if necessary then fleeing the community. It's also an example of the sort of action likely to cause nasty, multi-generational family feuds, especially by heirs and heiresses now facing a rival in their family who they did not voluntarily accept (this is one of the reasons why medieval Europe evolved away from capture-marriages as well).
Secondly, the means of capture-marriage here involves pregnancy. Now, the problem with this is that it is the mare who is stuck with the foal, and who thus has a significant problem if the stallion abandons her. Which he very well might do, if he's being forced into the marriage by being raped by her.
Yes, it's illegal for the stallion to abandon her. However, what's relevant here is what can be enforced. In pre-industrial societies, any not-very-prominent person can effectively escape legal consequences for most crimes by managing to get away to a geographically-distant village or town.
Even if the stallion is eventually brought to justice for his "crime" of running away, during his absence he's not supporting their foal. And how is he to be punished? He can be fined for child support, but in that case he may run away again anyway. He can be maimed to keep him from running away, but in that case his ability to help provide for his child is reduced. He can be excecuted, but in that case his ability to provide for his child is zero.
Mind control magic or other forms of magical bnding are also possible. But this sort of thing tends to have horrible side-effects, as repeatedly shown in canon. And, actually, as shown in your own story.
For these reasons, it's not practical. For that matter, capture-marriage even of women by men isn't all that practical, which is why it rapidly becomes merely vestigal in real Human cultures. It breaks down completely when it's of men by women.
She's repeated a lot of their vague arguments without ever giving any reasoning. Even the stuff she says aren't off limits she's avoided actually saying anything we didn't know. In fact, the only real piece of data she gave, that she was behind much of this revolution from the start despite not being broken contradicts her waffling on whether Cadance was in trouble earlier.
Twilight called her out on the victim blaming but let it go like it just had to be said and that was it. The fact that she's even doing it should have been pursued as obvious evidence there's something wrong with her position. Luna again says this revolution must happen and that things will be better but says literally nothing to back that up.
Most critically she insists she has not had the mental changes (let's ignore the fact that she explicitly says "breaking" changes specific opinions like that's not super-suspicious) but backs everything that's happening. Yet the logic that convinced her is not presented! Is that the story she's about to tell that explains this?
So basically, Luna's in on this both because she has a thing for Twilight, and because she's pissy about how society has changed since she's been gone.
8275448
Checked my notes: I missed a sentence in Twi's response to Luna. Fixed.
8233976 and most especially Trick Question
It seems to me either a lie by the Order (though, admittedly, one that they may believe themselves) or Author's Fiat that Ponies would really be happier living this way.
Look, I get the attraction of the fantasy of a Free Love society, and even of this particular BDSM variant of it (which is, honestly, more like Bound Love with really weird social hierarchies, essentially turning the whole Realm into a huge open-air S&M club. I get it because, honestly, in some ways I'm fairly kinky myself.
But it wouldn't really work out well in real life. It wouldn't work out well because rigid hierarchies are a terrible way to organize a culture, making them male-dominated (especially in a previously mildly female-dominated society) would make them even worse, and in particular there's NO way to prevent a bleedover from "play" activity into "real" activity given everypony's involvement in the giant open-air S&M club.
What makes matters worse is that you're doing things to destroy the actual power of mares (as in strength, magic and/or flight ability) which are far worse than anything that was done to destroy the power of stallions under the old mare-dominated society, and in doing so objectively reducing the power of the society to work and fight. This is, in fact, the exact mistake that Starlight Glimmer makes in Our Town, only from a different direction (everypony still has their Marks and Talents; they just have limitations placed on their ability to transduce magic into effort).
The fact that one needs to nullify female power through horn-cutting, weights, and whatever the heck they're doing to Pegasi (I forget, though it would be weird if they left Pegasus mares alone) tells me everything I need to know about the true, organic and seamless psychological adjustment. It's very obviously untrue that everypony is enjoying their wonderful new society -- if they are, why do mares need to be crippled?
It would be as if we saw a Human culture with female subordination, and were told the women enjoyed it, but "of course" they all need to wear half-blinding full-face veils, ankle length hobble skirts and mittens at all times, so that they "know their place." I would not buy the moral integrity of that culture for one instant, and I don't buy the moral integrity of the Order.
You try to stack the deck by arguing that the previous Equestrian Realm was horribly prudish -- taboos against enjoyable physical contact among all Kinds even among lovers or spouses, prohibitions on homosexuality, and the like -- but all you're accomplishing is making this Equestria about as prudish as the Human culture of High Victorian Britain. Which, yes, went overboard on prudishness, but was still a better place for most Humans to live in than would be your open-air BDSM club.
As to the supposed improved happiness of the change:
(1) Cultures evolve their customs for a reason, and their customs are connected to other customs, which is why emotionally-survivable change is evolutionary rather than truly revolutionary. All sorts of Equestrian customs of courtship, marriage and family behavior would be connected to not being an open-air BDSM club; to, in fact, being a fairly prudish society. These would be broken or damaged by the change, and these customs served social purposes that would now be poorly-met. There's a reason why cultures that change too fast suffer "culture shock" and often collapse.
(2) Matters would be worse because nopony's actually being persauded of the morality, advantages or even sanity of this rapid change. Now, many (probably most) Ponies would have built part of their self-image and emotional stability on adherence to the old moral codes, meaning that the only reason they're soft-landing into the new ones is mind control. I find it hard to believe in magics so powerful and smooth that this change is being conducted in a manner likely to safeguard the sanities of those making the change in the long-run.
(3) Offhand I can think of several social ends served by a fairly prudish moral code (or even a fairly liberal one which does not involve Free Love and being an open-air BDSM club), which are left unserved by the New Order. These are (A) caring for the young (now stallions would know that they were quite likely not the fathers of their foals, and hence have a reduced evolutionary imperative to support them), (B) containing outbreaks of contagious disease (extremely difficult if you have random intimate physical contact including the exchange of bodily fluids with numerous and unpredictable partners), and (C) fundamental physical security against crime (very difficult if strangers are randomly coming into one's home in ways that enable them to case out your premises). These negative consequences would be combatted (to the extent that they are combatted) under the Order by means of mind control.
(4) Luna's claim that this all would increase friendliness between Ponies and hence reduce social isolation is patent nonsense. There is very little emotional connection involved in all this random sexual activity, save where such connection previously existed or was likely to form anyway. If you're a lonely Pony with few or no friends, living in a culture where you routinely have sex with random other Ponies means that you are now a lonely Pony with few or no friends who routinely has sex with random other Ponies who are STILL not your friends. The reason why in the real world we tend to only have sex with friends and to befriend strangers (if any) with whom we happen to have sex is because we do not live in a Free Love open-air BDSM club, so having sex with someone is a fairly special interaction!
(5) The one real change that's occurred is that you now (if male) may have some slaves and (if female) definitely have some master. This does mean that you now have another social connection, and one which is of considerable importance to oneself. However, what this basically involves is the creation of a rigid dominance hierarchy on the basis of sexual dominance/submission which may have absolutely nothing to do with preferred social dominance in other fields, or any other hierarchy (military rank, private employment, etc.). This might be a strength in that it is another social webwork; but I see a huge weakness in that it is entirely unsupported by the rest of one's personality. And, to the extent that this sexual contact remains of any social importance in the gigantic, continental-empire sized open-air Free Love BSDM Club, this hierarchy will subvert all the other social networks -- which is a very BAD thing, as these other networks (military, economic, scientific etc.) are actually performing social functions of importance, as opposed to generating clopfics.
This is almost as bad as Our Town. Probably, Equestria would fall -- not with an explosion, but with a lot of banging and whimpering.
It would all be (X-rated) fun and games until the food production and distribution network started to break down.
8275490
It also bothers me that Luna is made the mouthpiece for this. I love Luna; one of her emotional tensions in the SWSV is between her awareness that she is powerful enough to horribly abuse everypony around her (and is tempted to do so by her manic-depression) and her immense moral integrity, which restrained her from acting on this (save when she was falling into madness a thousand years ago).
The Luna in this story is a Luna who has given way to the temptation to abuse everypony, and justifies it to herself by some rather obviously specious reasoning. She's jumped happily into complete madness, and wants to pull those she loves into the pool so that they can all splash one another.
That's a terrible defeat for her, and she can't even see it.
8275612
Ah, but don't forget: Luna had already met Twilight Sparkle long before the series even started.
In a dream.
Present!Luna trapped Princess Twilight's mind in a dream far in the past, guarded by Luna of that time. Twilight resorted to, well, surprise-hoofing Past!Luna to break her concentration. She also left the Princess of Nights Past a note. Luna had centuries to grow into an obsession. And we do know Luna is prone to obsessions; that's an aspect of herself she sees in Twilight and Starlight.
The dream can be read in the second half of day 51.
8275612
Sex doesn't promote getting alongingness? I'm not surprised if the effect is relatively small or understudied in humans, but bonobo society is literally revolved around this.
Woman can rape males, including to pregnancy. It's rarer, but just as possible. Also, remember that Equestria has like 4 mares to each stallion. A rape gang is far from impossible, given sufficient incentive. It's probably even more practical than IRL was, as escaping to a distant village in Europe did not require traversing a monster infested anything. Given that both versions of the practice died out relatively quickly, it doesn't push my disbelief.
8276008
I think some of these problems you pointed out have already been recognized by the Order, when they basically claimed they went nuts at the beginning and had to tone down to make things work. That's why, for example, they're using ounckse and removable wing clips instead of wing clipping or cornectomy. They also seem to claim that the master/slave thing is gender neutral, although they haven't displayed this.
As for the free love and open air bdsm thing... I suppose it's not technically unworkable, but the above does display that they're going ahead without it all being worked out. Honestly, I would be surprised if Equestria wasn't a whole lot better at eradicating transmissible disease than we are IRL. We kinda suck at that.
8276016
Assuming that the Order isn't somehow right. Honestly, this isn't a full chapter. We haven't gotten into the meat of her reasoning. Which, after all, is why there's a story. If we had this all laid out on day 42 as it should have been if nopony was holding the idiot ball than everything would be resolved peaceably by now.
Once we can see the whole argument in the next what, 3-5 chapters? Then we can come to our conclusions. Sadly, given Twi's lack of scientific approach to this so far that can't be a satisfying one. Granted, I'm not sure how long it's been since Twi had a proper nights rest and a day of downtime. Getting put to sleep by spell can't be good for you, any more than sleeping pills.
8276016
It's straight up Stupid Evil under the guise of Lawful Stupid trying and failing to be Lawful Neutral.
It's a melting pot of retardation, that Twilight illogically goes along with, even with her self flagellation
8276229
the Order has only been working this way for not even two months. So their making changes stuff doesn't make much sense. They haven't had time to actually analyze wat's happening to make adjustments, unless things are falling apart terribly. And if they are going that bad in such a short time, well what chance do they have in the future.
So Luna is in the Order... oh well...
I find it so annoying that I can not use science to argue against the Order. They know what they want and they know how. But I still am not converted. As the Order value thing over other thing that I value.
Like the way they go about it. This revolution may not be a physical violence revolution but it is a psychological violent revolution. Such things should not be allowed as it can destroy society and as such defined as wrong. If they had made a peaceful revelation then it would be okay. Luna is with them so they have a strong voice. If Celestia had forbid the Order and punish Luna then it would be a bit more justified in my eyes as I value free speech. The superior ideas will naturally win over the bad even if it takes a long time unless they are violently opposed. Time that Luna has. But there are other things that the Order are doing wrong according to me. Like the vampony mutation. This is a vile thing to do! Even if the Order loses the mutation is going to be difficult to remove if at all! The fact that they do it to force their society to work is almost like colonization! This is conquest and the transformation to something that is better for the conquerors! And also Luna: If every change in society brings good and bad then does that not include yours?
Like>>8276008 and 8276229 discussed about the Order. It has some of the potential problems ironed out but the problem of "working it out as they go" is a very dangerous one and as I am a more careful person I think they should have thought out thing more before starting. Like Jordan says
Third is just my personal opinion of prioritizing production and efficiency over pleasure. I think that the Order is equally a threat for stagnation as direct rule of the princesses.
Forth is also a somewhat personal one. I am asexual. So the Order appears threatening to me. I have no desire for being intimate with someone else. So how does the Order deal with the asexual's? If the Order is based on the very desire of sex then what about those that does not have the desire?
But one thing that makes me wonder is sexuality. The science says that sexuality is something you are born with but here everyone seems to be bisexual? Was everyone already bi or did the Order find a way to change sexuality as well?
8276229
In Bonobo society, as far as we can tell, it acts as the glue of the only social order they have in fairly small groups (bands of no more than 50 or so). Their whole culture originally evolved this way: the culture is female-dominated and the sex voluntary. This is an open-air Free Love society, but not a BDSM pact. And there are no other social orders or subcultures or structures within their society with which it competes.
Ponies start with a more complex culture, which evolved another way in response to that complexity. The sex proposed here would not be all that voluntary. And Ponies are smarter than Bonobos, and would tend to rationally discount sex when sex was that universal.
To the extent that a Pony was more vulnerable to the effect, though, it would probably impair her functioning at everything else other than having sex. Bonobos have a very simple culture, in which they are essentially fructivorous gatherers with a small side order of hunting; aside from that they have to tend their young and watch out for (a few) predators. Ponies, on the other hoof, have an advanced industrial civilization to operate.
Like I said, lots of fun and X-rated games until the food production and distribution systems started to break down.
8276494
Rape is rape, whether the force used is physical, chemical or psychic in nature. And what the Order is doing is nothing more or less than committing acts of rape on a massive scale. They are using literal mind control to accomplish their ends.
I'm guessing that the Order mind-controls or even biologically-alters you to have a stronger sex drive. Indeed, the amount of sexuality displayed by their victims so far is probably well beyond whatever sex drives they originally possessed.
This is of course an extreme violation of personal and emotional integrity. In other words, rape.
Remember that almost everypony (save the most incredibly promiscuous Ponies) probably had limits on their target group for sexual attraction. The Order overrides these limits, and these limits existed for psychological reasons.
It is very difficult for me to believe that this can be done without damaging other aspects of the psychology of the victims. Complex minds are inter-related in their operation.
I'm guessing that the damage would be most severe to someone asexual but capable of romantic sentiment. Someone fitting that description would behave a manner almost the opposite of their normal pattern.
Someone like, say, my demisexual Trixie Lulamoon.
The same thing could be said about hetero- (or homo-) sexuality versus bisexuality. Obviously, the Order's mind control overrides normal attraction parameters and imposes those most convenient to its new structure.
8276317
Part of what bothers me about this is that Luna and Twilight are among the canonically most intelligent Ponies.
8276518
That would be worrisome if not for a line from the fall of the mayor part 2:
With that I can't see Applejack ceasing to farm or Cheerilee ceasing to teach or Nurse Redheart ceasing to nurse. Sexuality might run rampant but there's still them under it all. As long as there are rules in place that a Master can't make a Cunt give away products on command or for sex.
*Sigh*
*Heavier sigh*
So, Trick Question, you remember how a chapter or two ago I said that the only reason Twilight isn't already a vampire whoreslut is because her enemies are almost as stupid as she is? This chapter is a great example of that.
Luna's reasoning for the revolution can be summed up as this: "I don't think or act the way the whole of modern society does. Therefore I am going to FORCE the whole of modern society to think and act the way I do." That's...that's the rationale of a child. I would expect an eight year old to think like this. Or Kim Jong-un.
Holy shit. Luna is an idiot that's turning into a literal tyrant. Luna is turning into the MLP version of Kim Jong-un. Only with vampires and more rape. She is literally trying to force an entire nation(if not the entire damn world) to follow her specific way of thinking. By mind control and literally raping people. And she's not gone through the Breaking, and apparently only became a vampire in the last day or two. I honestly think Luna as portrayed in this story is mentally retarded. There is something wrong with her mind for her to think this way.
I'm gonna be completely honest with you. This is gonna sound hyperbolic or exaggerated, but I swear I'm not kidding. While I was reading this chapter my chest started hurting. Not a bad pain, more like a general discomfort, really. It was about halfway through the chapter I realized why: Luna and Twilight are so stupid it hurts. Literally. Your characterization is so bad that it is literally physically painful for me to read it.
I don't like this story any more. It's great in so many ways: a unique plot, good spelling/grammar/etc, a dark atmosphere...but the characters think like children. Everyone in this story is so stupid that it throws off the entire story. Congrats: you have now earned my downvote.
I'm going to keep following this story and keep reading it as it updates, if for nothing else than for the inevitable gangbang between Twilight and her family, both princesses, Big Mac, the Mayor and anyone else. I know the story is leading up to that. It's just taken about 50 chapters more than needed to get to that point.
8276560
just because they continue to try to do it, doesn't mean they'll function as well. Obsessions and being forced into actions by a proscribed role in a society can easily mess that stuff up
8276535
It's worse, even some mentally retarded people can come up with better rationale than them, it honestly beggars belief at how thick the characters are. Worse still is that they aren't even "broken" yet.
8276633
Doesn't mean they won't function though. As long as ponies keep their heads about them in this new society.
Edit: Yessss, yeeeeesssss downvote me! Downvote me with all of your impotent and ineffective rage! Let it boil over like dark pools in your veins!
8276535
Well, Twilight is. We don't know much about Luna other than that she's not, never has been well-adjusted. And for all the talks of how "retarded" the characters are, Luna already fell prey to her manic obsessions before.
There's two ways to think about this. One, she's been there and therefore should know better. Or two, she's been there because she's prone to this.
I remember when people were so furious at any story that had Discord turn on his pony friends. They'd call anyone mean-spirited, or stupid, or yes, even retarded for even entertaining the thought Discord may slide back into villainy. How dare they! He's pure good now! He would never!
And then Twilight's Kingdom happened.
8276560
It's not so much that the Equestrians would all have sex to the point of not being able to do their jobs at some level. They still have Talents, they still want money, they still get some personal fulfillment from doing good work.
It's just that ... how do I put this? ...
All the sex and bondage and domination in the Free Love Outdoor BDSM Club that used to be the Realm of Equestria is going to take time and effort; both in the sense of time out of one's day/week/whatever to attend the Mandatory Compulsory Fun Orgies, and in the senses of both physical and emotional effort to engage in and gain any supposed bonding benefits from them.
Now, Ponies balance work and leisure time, just as do Humans. Ponies who are doing work which does not completely satisfy them emotionally (and this is the case even among a race with Cutie Marks indicating innate Talents) satisfy themselves emotionally with hobbies and friendships (including the kind of friendships where they aren't having sex). A lot of work and a lot of emotional regeneration actually gets accomplished in hobby time.
Imagine that you're a lower middle class or lower class Pony. You're living in a societey with a tech level ~ AD 1900, which means that you have to work long hours -- 40 hours a week is around the minimum you're pulling to enjoy a halfway-okay standard of living, and 50-60 hours a week is not uncommon. This is also, not coincidentally, a level of work at which you're putting out enough work that, on the average, society functions well.
Unions like to take credit for falling average work hours, but the real reason was technological progress. Capital expressed as labor-saving devices in factories and offices amount to less work required per capita to make them function effectively. If unions had by some magic of politics managed to achieve 30-40 hour work weeks c. 1800 or 1850, the cheers of the proletariat would have rather quickly changed to angry roars as the bread riots began.
Now, the New Sexual Ponies in Order-ruled Equestria are taking out time and effort to be so enthusiastically sexual. That's time and effort they don't have available either for other work or leisure. That in turn means that they must either work less, or abandon other hobbies to make time and have the energy for all this sex and its aftermath (if there's no periods of conversation before or after the sex, then there's little or no social bonding benefit).
Historically, a lot of useful work gets done during leisure time, as hobby activities. Most writers, artists, poets, and many inventors, engineers, and scientists accomplish some important thinking in the practice of their hobbies. Under this Order, this doesn't happen quite so much.
(Consider this: FIMFiction, and fanfiction in general, is a hobby activity).
The freedom of the lower middle and lower classes to self-actualize is far more greatly impeded, of course, than that of the upper or upper-middle classes. The lower one is economically and socially, the less leisure time one has to devote to hobbies.
At best, you'd get a poorer, slower-growing society. At worst, and in crises, this might mean actual mass starvations.
Also, socially the whole "Master-Cunt" network is imposed on top of the existing social networks. These structures, like all structures, have maintenance cost. Keeping the Orgy That Lasts Forever running means that the other social networks don't have as many resources to operate.
This affects even the upper classes in negative ways.
"Twah, it'd be a good time for you to tell us how to beat Tirek about now ... have you been figuring out how to open that box the Tree of Harmony gave us?"
"I haven't really had time, Applejack, what with keeping up my elaborate and cross-indexed orgy schedule and fulfilling my other Cunt duties to my Master ..."
"Oh well. At least this little Dragon got laid. A lot."
"Of course, Darling." (*Rarity snuggles Spike*)
(*All are ANNIHILATED by Tirek's power) (*)
I might also wonder just how well the Magic of Friendship and Love is going to work when it's being sexually dissipated at random. Friendship and Love require focus to be effective: trying to treat phile and eros as if it was agape strikes me as a flawed proposition.
===
(*) I cheated. I copied the "true lovers exchange a last moment of doomed affection before being destroyed by something far more powerful" scene from my novel Fools and Drunks, in which Starlet and Roneo do this right before Nightmare Moon slays them.
8276700
Oh yes. The one thing about this all that seems horribly plausible is Luna going utterly mad due to her inability to achieve normal emotional ends by normal emotional means, and instead developing an abusive, megalomaniacal grand design (in this case The Orgy That Lasts Forever to force everypony to love her. Or even just to force Twilight Sparkle to love her. (And mind you, this is a Pony who came into this already liking Luna a heck of a lot, and probably always a repressed bisexual, so it really wouldn't have been that hard for Luna to win her love).
In the SWSV, this is because Luna is the Alicorrn Avatar of Gravity, and not very experienced with dealing with the emotions of mortal Ponies, or even living at the mortal level (which Alicorn Avatars do). Yes, she's been mortal over fifteen hundred years, but that's not that long by the standards of an Alicorn Avatar, and an eyeblink by the standards of a Cosmic Concept. Fusion made mistakes when she was Epona Amaterasu which she would not repeat as Celestia of Paradise Estate.
In the SWSV (and probably vanilla canon as well) friends in general, and other Alicorrns even more so than other kinds of friends, help keep Luna sane. In the SWSV, Ponies in general need friends to avoid Lone-Madness. (I could very much argue that this is true in vanilla canon as well -- observe the examples of Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer and Trixie Lulamoon).
A common symptom of Lone-Madness is inappropriate affect toward others. One either behaves with an icy chill toward potential friends, even though one really desires to get closer to them, or responds with wild displays of physical affection, possibly including attempted mating with them, long before one has actually fallen in love with them. The latter is a good description of the Orgy That Lasts Forever.
What Luna has basically done in Story is take her own emotional problems out on all Equestria. Which is exactly what she did in her first appearance, and her backstory, so I must sadly say that she's in character -- for a Luna going insane.
8276668
Twilight Sparkle doesn't agree with their rationale yet. She's just suffering what amounts to a breakdown from attempted magical mind control and good old-fashioned brainwashing. Remember, she's already been indirectly raped several times, in the course of little more than a month. She's going insane.
8276671
and your evidence they could do that? Cause what I'm seeing makes me bet they can't
8276442
Well, the oringinal plan was something like:
1) convert everypony right away.
2) Kinky sex party.
3) ???
4) Profit.
It didn't work of course because they hit a few snags- not being able to grow exponentially without bounds, practical matters of getting day to day life done, Twilight, not having enough masters to service the number of subs, Twilight again... Overall, not the worst roll out even if it was far from flawless.
8276494
That's what I'm annoyed at Twi for. She should be the one demanding peer review, but obviously she can't because as soon as you get that sort of data in the story collapses one way or the other.
Celestia has already used brainwashing and mind control on her sister, so it seems this isn't exactly an option. You would at least have needed to unite the three other princesses together to do this. If nopony was holding an idiot ball, that would have been a simple and straightforward task of providing Twilight evidence a month ago.
80%+ of the population should be somewhat bi, falling on Kinsley 1-5. Since the breaking is apparently erasing all sexual inhibitions and culturalization, finding a pony that wouldn't enjoy casual bi sex (even if they have a different preference in relationships) should be as rare as finding people who are only attracted to Asians or red heads. Maybe it's easier to use something non sexual as an analogy. How about, imagine a society that revolved around baseball. We have that subculture still. Even if you had someone who couldn't play on the same team as women, he probably could still pitch to batters on the woman's team and enjoy the game.
Honestly, I'm interested in asexuals and non kinky ponies. I have no frame of reference for asexuality. Even before I had a sex drive, I still liked sex. If puberty gives a chance to kick in the sex drive, maybe becoming a vampony gives that another roll of the dice? If the infection turns regular ponys sex drives up to 11, maybe it has a chance to turn asexuals up to 1? Or maybe you're stuck being the one person at the ball game who really doesn't like baseball.
8276518
being more advanced, though, means that they can choose to shape their culture. The whole part of the Order stopping their members from performing cornectomies, even when they wanted to, was them imposing social controls for productivity and appearance for the good of the group. They can get work done and simply replace other leisure activities with sex. The Order has gotten a huge amount of work done in a very short time including an ex nihlo coup in under 2 months, shaping a kinky bdsm society's rules from very little, and capturing 2 princesses.
Either way, sexuality could promote friendliness on an emotional level.
The question is, "is the bdsm society less productive than Celestia's society plus the adaptation margin?" The answer is, not necessarily. Cherilee seems to have had no impact on her teaching, other than potential questions about her breast enlargements. Rarity seems to have adapted to using her hooves enough to be just as productive as before. We know from the show that things like Sweet Apple Acres are incredibly inefficient, because they value tradition and turn away from help as a rule. Simply having a motivation to value more free time could *potentially* lead them to modernize. Even IRL lifestyle bdsmers get through the workday just fine.
8276622
But Celestia's not better. According to Luna in this chapter, the cultural changes weren't just a burden on her but also her night guard and the entire Crystal Empire. In fact, even before anything to do with the Order or vamponies the crystal ponies were at a boiling point. They had almost gotten Shining and Cadence to take action on their behalf *anyway.* That, in turn, would have prompted Celestia to mind rape out of existence an entire culture. As well as an alicorn princess. Again. Like she did to her sister.
No one is clean in this situation.
8276742
The problem here is she kinda does, she isn't picking out the logical flaws and fallacies of the order, and she doesn't really question the validity of their claims like her intellect suggests she can. Even being mentally traumatised, she should still be able to do this much at the least.
She's outright stated several times that she'd up and join the order if she hadn't made her promise to Celestia.
Oh, holy shit, I just remembered a dream I had ages ago about being a city filled with rape vampires for three days trying to not get raped while I performed my daily errands.
The worst part is, this occured before I had read this fic. What does it mean?
8276861
And there are two important reasons why:
One, Princess Twilight needed and needs to cut herself off from her loved ones. Even if the fight with Tirek didn't happen, we know she's still the Princess of Friendship deep down... but she's running out of friends. She thrives on emotional support and connections. Having to go against her instincts over and over and over is wearing her down.
Two, the Order offers her something she desperately wants and has wanted even before: Peace of mind. Twilight nearly drove herself insane with worry and guilt over a late homework assignment in the past. This is the longest ongoing crisis she's ever faced, and the most horrible things she has ever blamed herself for, and she can't work out her negative emotions until she the problem is solved... or she crumbles under the pressure.
Really, you're asking Twilight to be a machine rather than a living being. She's not. She's a deeply conflicted pony who is torn between wanting to find out more and terrified of losing herself to the temptation of what she will find.
8276991
And don't forget that she likes Luna to begin with. This isn't like fighting Tirek or Chrysalis. This is going up against somepony whom she cares for and who cares for her in return.
It's emotionally a lot more difficult.
8277020
Indeed.
There's probably another reason why they have Luna spend so much time with Twilight. Considering how often she managed to slip out of their collective grasp, against frankly impossible odds, they might be paranoid she's going to do it again (and rightly so). Better have your most powerful caster watch her. Luna is not fettered in any way, after all. She's in full control of her powers.
8276718
Well that's assuming they don't adjust things until they find a way that works. Things aren't static and like they said in story they're still figuring things out. As is it might seem untenable, but we can only speculate. Also cue the same random dude who keeps downvoting every response since the latest chapter.
8276761
It's with your evidence that they won't find a way to make this work. It's non existent! Pure speculation, just like yours
8277051
Luna wants Twilight to escape though. More specifically her source believes Twilight HAS to escape. If you want a safe bet for keeping Twilight under wraps Shining Armor would have been a better pick. He doesn't want her to escape, he's got military training, and an uninhibited horn.
Edit: Hey anonymous dip, you missed one!
8276991
Except she's trying to assess the scientific merits of the Order's "arguments" and failing to put even the basics of the scientific method to test.
She's completely disregarding any basis of logic that she bases her world views on, including the fact that she specifically knows that the "breaking" actually alters ponies mentally, she's still up for it.
Thats way past emotional dependence on others and straight into pure idiocy territory.
8277066
figure things out before society is put in a state f near collapse
8277095
Well good golly gosh, they'll grab that there time machine of theirs and do just that! They rushed things thinking naively that it'd work out the way they'd hoped and now they're kind of committed to it. I mean they can't exactly undo what they've done now can they? They're too far gone, so now the only way is forward. They have momentum now after all, and it's not likely to stop any time soon since they're convinced that their way is right. Whether you agree with them or not they do seem to believe their own story and no amount of useless griping and bitching in the comment section is going to change that.
8277134
is there a good reason they can't just stop?
8277141
They honestly believe what they're doing is right? Sounds like a good reason to me. If they really think that what they're doing will make Equestria better then they aren't going to stop.
8276761
Rarity and Cherilee both seem to be keeping up with their day jobs.
8276718
Equestrian technology is anachronistic, in the sense that it blends technology of several time periods and magic in a combination different from IRL. The ponies that seem to work the most are actually the business class like Applejack, the Cakes, and Rarity. I'm not sure that we can claim a 40-60 hour work week as subsistence. The only ponies we see with any meaningful financial constraints are Fluttershy, who doesn't work at all outside tending to her animals, and the Apples, who appear to be land speculators. Sweet Apple Acres ought to take at least 10-20 full time farm hands, and up to 40 additional ponies for planting/harvest season from what we see in the show. It's a miracle 2 adults can even pay their taxes and feed themselves. If ponies can get by with that sort of inefficiencies in Celestia's Equestria, the Order is at least plausible.
8277155
at the moment, but frankly just lookin a Twilights time with her parents show that ponies in this condition aren't good at restraining themselves, and if a family relationship can be warped that way I don't see much hope for others
8277169
I'm pretty sure warped but functional is what they're going for. The only question is fine tuning. The economy has certainly suffered in Equestria because of too much inhibitions- Sweet Apple Acres, for example. There's some amount of social relaxation that would be beneficial. Then beyond that is a break even point. If they overshoot that is when things go to hell. Given that they corrected so quickly re: Rarity, I suspect they won't overshoot the break even point significantly.
8277090
This is the same Twilight who didn't have Discord's lesson about being honest about your limitations yet. Twilight herself is trying to be a machine, and she's failing.
8277208
you're giving them far to much credit for rationality. For example, it's been said in these comments that the ponies that have trouble fitting into modern Equestria are the Night Guard, Luna and the Crystal Empire. Luna and the Empire just got jumped ahead 1000 years. So they're re-writing Equestria for the benefit of probably less than 1% of the population that has trouble fitting in. That's pretty irrational
8277259
You probably shouldn't presume they can't wise up and think with their brains instead of their genitals. They're characters in a story, not a painting. They aren't static and are capable of change.
8277272
I think that when there's more and they don't have to hide themselves they'd end up worse
8277365
'I think'. Good for you.
8277368
well that's all you're doing