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I couldn't help but notice that A) When Twilight asked Cadance what the breakstone actually does, she never answered the question, and B) The glossary entries regarding the breakstones reference something called the stain, but the entry for the latter has nothing worthwhile.
You'd think that Twilight's distress regarding what it does to the brain would make her want to know what it is that they're removing. Her reluctance seems strange to me.
7956948
Derp derp derp, misread your entire comment lemme re-reply.
7956953 I kinda re-read it and figured out you put the entry in as "Stain, the" which is what threw me off when I tried to Ctrl+F search it. It still provided ZERO answers.
7956948
Sorry, I totes misread this on my first response.
What you're saying is logical, yes. The next chapter will provide illumination on that question.
7956971 To be honest, it's possible you didn't. I have the terrible tendency of posting, and then feverishly editing it afterward. You probably read the first iteration, and then read it again after I changed a fair amount, which changed the framework of what I was talking about a bit.
7956975
Heh, me too.
Woe unto us rapid-fire anal-retentive message-correctors, to be here at the same time, furiously crossposting!
7956978 *writes comment about two chapters*
"Wait, shit, I didn't read that thing correctly, so my whole argument makes no sense! Let me re-write this part so that I don't look like an idiot, and hope they don't notice!" *typetypetypetypetype*
"Annnnnnnnnd crisis averted!"
This is the story of what happened 10 minutes ago.
Ya killing me, Trick!
Well, the supernatural is just the natural we haven't explained yet.
Let's see how much longer you'll be able to put ' ' around that.
That's pretty much fancy diplomacy talk for 'we like to fuck a lot, just like our ancestors did.'
Is there anything in canon to suggest this?
"Yes, by all means, keep jabbing me with needles and telling me it'll stop sucking when I learn to love being jabbed by needles. It's really helping to prove your case. Really it is."
images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/6988020_700b.jpg
"Theory of Narrative Causality."
Not even a full chapter, gg Twilight, gg.
It's gon' be Spike.
derpicdn.net/img/2016/3/12/1107454/medium.png
Bet it's Applejack, who will say she is on their side now after they explained things, and why yes, she DID have the brain thing done, which was totally harmless and no she won't explain it.
Seriously, Twilight is testing Cadance to see differences in her mind, but still drops it at the refusal to talk about the stone. Is denying her knowledge really like Cadance? At this point they've been so fucking coy that all of their bitching about Celestia suppressing knowledge is an utter farce.
Edit: I mean cone on. Twilight doesn't even ask if that "calm discussion happened under duress or after the Breakstone was applied!
7956953
hmm... that reminds me of a certain organization's beliefs... tell me: what do you know of Freemasonry?
7957062
Typical cult mentality, there's the "with us or against us" attitude, the belief of doing right, the belief of knowing what's right for others, the whole "everyone else is ignorant" on top of "only the worthy get to know the information" kinda crap.
The order is one big oblivious cult leading to the breakdown of civilisation and more than a few suicides.
7957603 Want some kool aid?
7957944
Now I may be insane, but at least I'm not in a cult.
Also Kool aid tastes like piss, Fanta Fruit Twist is much better. Or Cherry Tango.
7957603
Only suicidal pony is Twilight, and that seems to be a product of her psychological problems, trauma, and being a big failure who fails constantly lately.
7957952 I wouldn't say she's suicidal as much as she's caught a slight case of the emos from Luna.
This is exiting!
I wonder how long Twilight can hold out. And this gives us a good question: should she? After all it may be to late for her to go back to the way things used to be. And the rewards if she gives in seams to be to her liking/pleasure. The only thing keeping her going now seams to be her insistence on that there is something wrong with those that follow the Order (neither we nor Twilight knows what the stain is) and her own principles.
But then some might say that principles alone is reason enough to keep going.
7957952
The only one the story has mentioned. I'm sure that there would be a reasonable amount who would prefer it to the alternative of some rather disgusting, disturbing and damaging sexual acts.
I certainly know that I would take death over those monstrosities.
7958320 An easy thing to say when you're safe in front of your computer screen. I wonder if you'd really feel that way were the situation a little closer to home.
7958320
That is a good point. We've only seen Twilight unhappy with what they're doing, but it is clearly rape and even people less sheltered than her can suffer similar trauma and negative thoughts like hers due to rape.
A lot of the tragedy of her situation is the complete lack of support from anyone else, especially since friends/family. Only Rainbow wasn't feeding her bullshit about or grooming her for the Order. Her thoughts of worthlessness aside, she is right to think getting back in touch with friends is a good move. The cult already has her convinced that resisting itself causes her suffering rather than them, and her inability to put up even token intellectual struggle against them is pretty crippling. Of course I'm sure they're all converted by now; she can't have actually succeeded at getting Rainbow Dash away, that would break her perfect record with opposing the Order.
7958275
She's definitely had some suicidal bouts involving the cognitive dissonance between the two teams.
7958302
Maybe she shouldn't resist if Team Creepy was doing things in a reasonable manner, or if they were in the process of getting to that point. Right now, though Celestia is still a prisoner as well and they're ruling a coup. If not for narrative causality, Twilight would be just as likely to kill all the vamponies and then herself as joining Team Creepy.
7958320
Twilight's whole inner conflict is that she's not disgusted or damaged/traumatized as much as she thinks she should be. That's what's mainly disturbing her and making her suicidal.
...And honestly, the context is much worse than the actual sex acts themselves. Frontage, oral and anal sex, even crossdressing bdsm probably aren't worth killing yourself over. Parental rape with (semi-) permanent mutilation? Much more of a contender. Still, none of that is certainly worth killing yourself.
7958524 Well. "Reasonable" is relative. After all Celestia is the absolute monarch (I think) and change does not come easily from those (or from anyone).
I do not understand what you mean with this?
7958553
There's probably several reasonable options to take to resolve this issue. All of them would start by talking about the problem directly. Even if Celestia was completely unreasonable about it, with 2 (maybe even 3) of the princesses in favor of team creepy and the Crystal Empire as an independent nation there's nothing stopping Team Creepy from simply doing what they want in their own kingdom and showing they're objectively in the right.
As for the other part, that's just an alternative outcome. Right now Twilight is tempted to join Team Creepy. She's also had some suicidal bouts. Obviously, the story isn't going to be the latter because, well, with the narrator and protagonist dead then we wouldn't have a story. That's what I'm saying.
7958652 Screw being reasonable. Sex vampires are the solution to all problems everywhere!
7958652 But if team creepy thinks that what Celestia is doing is wrong and cruel. It is only natural that they want to change it. And do you think that Celestia would let team creepy operate freely? I think that she would rather resort to violence and so would many others that find the Order morally wrong.
7958659
And that's how Twilight Sparkle got raped.
7958671
I think there's certainly some space before invading the crystal empire. Maybe not on the horn thing, but certainly when it comes to the Puritan mores she doesn't seem to care much about. Probably enough to roll out a slow change and let Celestia see the order's point of view over time.
7958729 I do not think Celestia is going to give that space. Remember that the Order considers assent to be more important then consent. And then there is the male dominance thing (from what I have seen). The Order want to do this peacefully (as possible) and Celestia is very likely to reject it outright. Otherwise they would have done it in another way I believe. After all, they got Luna on there side.
7958759
Maybe. That's certainly what the Order believes. On the other hoof, Celestia used to be on the other side of the issue. It really depends on how honest Celestia is being with Twilight.
7958770
Celestia used to be on the other side of the issue?
What did I miss?
7958775
I think it was this, in the dream summit.
7958792 Hmm ok. Then we need to know what that horn thing is and how it is connected with the Order.
There is a lot more to learn about all of this .
7958813
Yup. I only hope it does end up with the good (kinky) ending.
7958342
What to kill myself or shag family/children etc?
Yes I would much rather take a long walk off a short cliff thanks. I know myself well enough that I'd not be able to live with the guilt of that. I don't fear death, it's going to happen to everyone at some point and there's nothing that can stop it. The only aspect I'm afraid of in regards to it is the manner of my death.
Put in the same situation as Twilight I would choose death. There's also not the problem there to be afraid of how I would die as it'd be my decision on how to go out.
7958524
I'm aware of Twilight's reasonings, I was more thinking about how others would take it considering the whole "we aren't going to force people anymore" (not that I really believe it) as well as my personal choices if put in that situation.
For some of us, it is worth killing ourselves over (I completely agree with it being the context that makes it as bad as it is, nothing wrong with most of the sex acts taken by thenself) but everyone is different.
Some people may choose death as they see what's been done as wrong but the corruption inevitable to continue, some would fight back, some would accept the order, some would try flee etc.
Personally I would prefer to top myself out of those options, fighting being a close second. Fleeing seems to just delay the choice, and for me accepting is mortally reprehensible. Fighting whilst useful isn't for me a good method as I'd probably end up with the other three choices being put on the table anyway after fucking something up along the way. So personally death feels the best escape from that shitty situation whilst keeping personal beliefs intact.
So yeah, just about all of Cadance's lines translated to me as "This is a cult. I'm in a cult. We're peer pressuring you into joining a cult."
7959185 Culting is a fun and wholesome activity for friends and family :)
7959185
fastcocreate.com/multisite_files/fastcompany/poster/2014/11/3037984-poster-p-2-dont-hug-me-3.jpg
7958915
Well, we already have an immortal flatworm and a probably-revivable mouse. If you can make it to about 2055, and if Moore's law holds out that long, then there's a chance you'll only die temporarily. Not a huge chance, but marginally better than zero.
7959536
I should easily live til then, but I'd still prefer to die later on rather than live for longer.
Now this is curious. Perhaps it's having it laid out as a table instead of as a narrative, but a number of things are starting to make sense now.
7960271 A story that's all questions and no answers would be pretty agitating after a while.
Hrm, it occurs to me that Twilight learning/attempting to become a domme might become a win condition for either team. If Twilight can do that, then it might force Team Creepy to re asses. If she can't, then that's finally the first objective data point in Team Creepy's favor.
7962295 Doesn't look too good on that front I'm afraid. So far signs are pointing towards sub. Maybe a switch, but they seem to have a pretty rigid caste in effect. So, maybe Lady?
7962413
Yeah, the Order definitely has Twilight pegged as a hard cunt, not even a lady. That's actually why it has a chance to work. If she can do it, then she can challenge their caste system. If they "reaped" her as a lady, then it would be useless. No matter what she did they could say she's switching.
Alternatively, it's also a hail mary for Twilight going full vampony. If only masters *can* control the wolf, and Twilight is a far as master as possible, then if she turns and manages to control the wolf then she can again challenge their caste system and core beliefs. It's also a way that works with Twilight's corruption to the order's values. She slides, and slides, and slides then right when she's deciding if she wants her father and brother's cocks in the same hole or different ones she breaks bad for science and decides to go all in on testing. Either way she wins. If she wins, she wins. If she fails then she can fall to the order without regrets- or at least with less guilt.
7962471 Her own behavior has been exceedingly submissive all things considered. Both in the sack and as a protagonist. She hasn't exactly proactively done anything. She's spied a tiny bit and for the rest of the plot has been more or less running around. There's not a whole lot of dominance in her so far.
7962491
Which means the order is likely right, at least about her. No?
7962506 Yup, which will leave only Celestia to break the mold.
7962510
Well, we don't know where Celestia will fall until/unless the order gets to her. And that's assuming the dark magic doesn't leave her corrupted.
But yeah, it does look like Twilight's going to join the order. Maybe I'm just hoping for some extra clop scenes that's less likely to happen later.
7962528 How corrupted did it make Twilight? And Celestia has over a millennium of extra experience.
7962544
No clue, given alll the other corruptions on poor twilight's brain. Probably not much. But for all that Celestia is older, she's also potentially much more desperate and definitely much more willing to justify the means by the ends. She already has gone down the path of the tyrant before.