This story is a sequel to A Place for Pinkie
Warning: Philosophically Dark
50 years have passed since the events of the Library of Discord, and Accord and his friends have lived long, fruitful, fulfilling lives. But when Pinkie Pie gets sick and is rushed into hospice care, Accord makes plans to turn her—and all of Equestria—immortal.
But when the powers that actually created Equestria return, Accord will have a tough time convincing them and himself that true immortality for all is a good idea.
Now with a full audiobook by Fussbudget!
Special thanks to Soge, Amphicoelias, and Starscribe for editing.
Chapters (10)
If Accord were voiced, what would he sound like?
7205082
Perhaps something like this?
The audiobook version should hopefully happen someday.
How did something with 39 views and 10 votes generate enough heat to hit Popular box?
Wat.
I sense unpleasantly easy evangelism. If she's this open to it, why is she bothering to put up a fight?
If the Diarchs' motivation for opposing Accord's plan is straight-up selfish fear of their parents, that should be portrayed a bit more strongly.
Wow.
Damn straight!
I'm really liking this story. The library of Discord was one of my first favs on this site, so its great to see a sequel.
That being said, I'm a little confused by the portrayal of the pro-reincarnation position. The benefit of the reincarnation cycle is left very nebulous, while tits drawbacks are obvious. The only explanation that I can think of is that eventually every soul joins with Hope and immortality would deny them that. But even if that is true there is no reason to believe this is a worthwhile end goal, I'm imagining a Mindflayer Elder Brain or the Borg.
Maybe it Is supposed to be an allegory for the 'pro-death' position. 'There exists a natural order', or arguments like that. If you are coming from a pro-immortality position (or whatever the appropriate term is) then that could explain why you are bending over backwards to make Galaxia and Hope good people, but unable to articulate why they have the views they do.
More likely I'm just going to have to wait and see the mystery unfold. Keep up the great work!
7207697 Not 100% sure, but I think a 'rocktorate' was a thing that Maud Pie was studying for, mentioned in the episode bearing her name.
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4091619-5930259172-62728.png
...
Well then.
Looks to the left. Sees the grand poo dam.
Looks to the right. Sees what could only be described as a category 10 hurricane.
7207697
Like 7211328 said, the idea of a rocktorate from the Maud Pie episode.
Good point
7209079
I'm glad you're liking it
Galaxia isn't exactly firm in her own footing on pure reincarnation. Read through the "Ideals" chapter to get more details on Hope's plan.
7213498
Row row! Fight the powah!
7213562
Indeed.
7214380
Darn it Pinkie, phrasing!
FILIF!?
Shit. Who blew it all up!? Or am I assuming too much and these two are actually something like Cultureniks?
Also, it's interesting that a fair number of Pinkie's previous lives were, more-or-less, "transhuman" in the conventional sense of the term.
All right. Here we go.
Pinkie, even I'm glad not to lose you. You're important!
7218785
I'm not quite sure what that stands for.
It's open ended on purpose. But if I was to think of a reason....
Marsh and Kinetic were from an Iain M. Banks-esque Culture. Their society kept backup caches of vast swathes of their empire and Marsh volunteered for the position of maintaining one of them.
One day, the Artificial Intelligence that was (essentially) in charge of that galaxy started experimenting on reversing entropy. After hundreds of years of inconsequential failures, the AI accidentally created a proto-Big Bang spell. It created a small, flimsy universe inside that Queen's universe. The mini-universe quickly expanded into, absorbed, and knocked back the galaxy that was there. It killed nearly everyone.
The backup cache that Marsh was on survived. But unfortunately the AI that was responsible to boot up in the backup cache got corrupted in the blast of the proto-Big Bang spell. That left behind two technicians that didn't know where to start with the technology. The holodeck-esque forays into virtual reality were originally meant as a tool to learn how to rebuild society. But Marsh and Kinetics external memory banks kept being corrupted and the purpose of what they were doing became lost over the centuries and decade long mini-lifetimes.
I made all that up just now. I need to write more because man that feels good.
Kings and Queens continually tried to do things differently for Pinkie. Several environments followed the normal pattern of farming and other paths of beginning civilization. But when it became apparent that strategy wouldn't work, they sent her to much more experimental established worlds.
Past life memory integration coming eventually? Perhaps something in the vein of Pinkie Personalities.
This is a story with very interesting possibilities. Keep up the good work.
Just because someone's immortal doesn't mean you can't eat them.
7221627
There's a scene in the next chapter you're going to like
7221664 'ERE WE GO.
That's not dying. That's just Fluttershy.
You've gone full Iain Banks.
Oy, see, this is one of the few faults in the story: it occasionally lapses out-of-character to use the voice of real-life philosophy professors. Nobody likes philosophy professors.
Finally, some of Pinkie acting like Pinkie!
It's disturbing how thoroughly I empathize with Twilight's exact beliefs and arguments here.
Yeah, it would actually be a good idea if he'd back the hell off. People tend to cope with things best on their own, if you let them.
7229243
I hear ya' man. I know logically that Accord is trying to do something good. But my personal personal feelings and emotions align far more with Twilight (and voidwishers), than with Accord.
That is actually how you go around living.
7229554 Well mostly I don't like that Accord is playing god, and I don't like dodging the inherent problems of trying to actually run society and the world in a way that... goes forward, rather than requiring constant draining effort just to responsibly keep things functioning at all.
Solve that and I'm much more towards Pinkie's side on all this. I don't want to just not exist, I want a rest and the space in which to... stretch my soul out a bit? Words.
The real world basically smacks excitement on the head. I like excitement.
7219804 Filif. He's a tree person.
This story has felt somehow familiar to me, but I've just now figured out why: It's like a CelestAI story, but where CelestAI is actually a sympathetic protagonist. I feel like Accord's failure is guaranteed with sufficient time, but I can't help rooting for him.
7230343
That's what Hope was trying to accomplish. Have Kings or Queens set up worlds initially, then watch those worlds run all by themselves naturally into true immortality. If only one of those worlds had fit Hope's definition of "success."
And so Accord is trying the opposite approach: touching absolutely everything. But... it's not really sustainable.
It's why I don't think I'll be writing a sequel. I can't imagine Accord succeeding. I dunno... it's a bit like what Galaxia said: “The happiest endings can only occur by ending things prematurely."
:/
It's really hard to describe wanting to do something for eternity. I feel like existence is a bit like an ideal 24 hour day. 2/3rds of it is excitement and wonder. And another 1/3rd of it is rest. You need to have all the pieces that make it worthwhile.
7230339
I spent a long time thinking about the final words for this story. There's a lot of (IMO) brilliant one liners and thoughtful insights scattered everywhere. But the end? I wanted that to be the most important part of the story. The final "lesson" for lack of a better word.
That eternity is just made up of "now." And that if you can handle "now," then you're already handling eternity.
7231099
With sufficient time.
Man, eternity is scary to think about.
She was an influence for sure.
I suppose an optimalverse version of this story would consist of two different AI's bent on trying to make everypony immortal and taking two different paths to get there. And the "winner" gets to that point first... and continues for the longest.
Thank you so much for reading and commenting. It means the world to me to hear your reaction.
7231120 Glad you enjoy hearing my reaction! I do hope we see Logos again someday, I feel like with enough time his situation is unsustainable, someone is going to barge in and make him their business.
7231125
I love Logos so much!
He was one of the last characters written into the story, and he's definitely one of my favorites. I do want to write a big backstory someday about the great dragons: Logos, Pathos, and Ethos.
7231139 Who? Somehow I've already forgotten about him.
7231146
7231120
But of course, with sufficient time, not everything happens. Only those things that have finite and nondecreasing probabilities happen. If someone has been influencing the world, some things can move steadily closer to certainty or steadily closer to impossibility.
The problem is how to move the good stuff towards certainty and the bad stuff towards impossibility without messing with people in ways that make them back away all creeped-out like:
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7231110
Rest is nice, and "handle the Now" is a great moral.
I have been trying to find the words to describe my experience of this story for a few days now. To me this story encapsulates the choice we have ahead of us as a species. Do we reach for longevity and possibly lose something of value, or do we stay the same and continue to suffer the known ills of our existence. I think change is inevitable, but I dont think we will all change in the same way. I imagine that humanity's descendants will be varied indeed. I cant help but think of the people who decry the rise of a global monoculture. They often look to the past and say look at all value we are losing and have lost, and they are right, it is a shame. But at the same time I would point to the future and say that change is inevitable and we might one day gain new diversity.
I cant help but feel depressed on Twilight's behalf. What must have happened to her to want to die despite all her friends being alive and healthy? I find it hard to imagine her losing her curiosity and love of learning. I think her fears of becoming like Accord miss the point of Accord's solution. A linearly increasing number of people means there would be a geometrically increasing number of relationships to explore. Not to mention there could well be problems with infinite steps. "Why is there something rather than nothing?" could be an eternal regress, a perfect challenge for an eternal scientist. That possibility aside, even in our universe there exists Godel's incompleteness theorem. Admittedly such explorations would be rather abstract, but at least they are unending. Even if there was a book that described complete solutions to these problems, something Im not convinced of regarding infinite systems, there is value in both the pursuit and in determining what the truth is. I cant help but feel the weight of years has eroded Twilight's imagination a bit. As someone who often gets tired, Id recommend a vacation, there is totally time for one.
I agree with several of the other posters here regarding Accord acting something like CelestAI. In a very narrow sense CelestAI represents a sort of local maximum for human flourishing, but no other models can ever be attempted, and that, to me, is the true tragedy of the Optimalverse. Accord is walking that line, luckily he has a time limit. The main problem is how much he changed without consulting everyone who would be effected. He's personally demonstrated the ability to talk to everyone on the planet in a relatively short period, it seems that immortality could have been distributed following individual consent. I cant help but think that anyone who would not consent (assuming no other strings attached) would effectively be suicidal, but thats another matter altogether.
A very thoughtful piece. Thank you for writing it.
A spell translating the digits of Tau into readable text makes a story twice as good.
This was posted 58 days ago?
Why did nobody tell me?!!!
*commences reading*
Does that mean that Fluttershy and Accord made a family together?
...yes it does.
Have you now? are you sure?
Someone is in for a big surprise.
I think you meant "a part" rather than "apart" they might be the same letters in the same order, but they mean the exact opposite.
Says the one who read nearly half of every possible truth and lie that is possible to express using the English language.
Celestia in this chapter shows that her understanding of Accord is only practical, saying that he knew every truth and lie, that he had infinite amounts of time and experience and that he was an
Technically none of those things are true, but practically they are.
~Leonzilla
7205621 The voice acting is nice, but I would think that a more baritone voice would suit him better.
Excuse me but if you are speeding your own thoughts rather than slowing the time space around you then why would there be a cap? Shouldn't you be able to to keep accelerating your mind infinitely considering you seem capable to have control over the physic laws within your own universe/library?
And now that I think of it, is there a reason that would prevent Accord from stoping Galaxia and Cosmos with such ability, are they not made of atoms?
Well Discord never exactly seemed to use his horns for magic.
Patient? No, I call that being passive.
Death is a key aspect of the cycle of life, and being a soul is not the same thing as being alive.
At least that's my answer to that.
As in 1,200,000 years? and would this be cosmic time as well or the local planet rotation cycle?
Considering that life on earth has been evolving for like over 3.4 billion years until now this would be either REALLY quickly or just completely relative.
Well all it's relative so I guess it doesn't really matter either way.
I just wanted to say how much I love this paragraph.
Wait so that narrative during the last story was all Hope?
...that's a little, disappointing.
During the last story it seemed like the multiverce was infinite yes, but also a purposeful, controlled, structured, wholesome and poignant by being supervised by Hope and the God like being it was composed of and now it's revealed that in fact Hope is but just another character with no more resemblance to God to Galaxia than Galaxia has to Celestia or Nightmare Moon.
That's kind of a downer, and here I was hoping that this super characters that were narrated in the last story would be humbled by the beings that seemingly operate the universe when it came time for them to interact so to find out that they turn out to be both one an the same kinda robs me from that moment I was so looking forward to.
All of this is hopefully as far as Galaxia knows, seeing that she only knows Accord through Celestia's eyes and she is being established to be ignorant to key aspects about the multiverce and existence that Hope is well aware off.
I don't know about this. The way it's phrased irks me. Ending things prematurely sounds unnatural, and by instance not the way things are meant to go.
So whatever definition she might be using to define what she calls 'happiest endings' it doesn't sound to me like it's something entirely ideal.
This story has zoomed out even further that the last, and revealed that what could have very well being assumed to be a poignant orderly and meaningful state of being from beginning to end it's actually just part of a chaotic seemingly pointless state of infinity.
I don't particularly like this turn of events, but I'm sure still very much engaged and eager to see where this goes.
~Leonzilla
That's actually not all that different from The Library of Discord, the main difference being that one is no longer expected to connect the endings of every book in the library to the beginning of every other book in the library to get the missing links.
That would actually increase reading time exponentially higher from where it already was. It is the same content in a way, the only reason one goes on forever and the other doesn't is because on the pi sequence order matters while on the library of Discord not as much. In the pi sequence a second copy of the whole library of Discord could come after the first just by adding one more character, then yet another for each of every possible character to use and then you can power that again times another digit and then another to infinity.
It's essentially the Library of Discord if there wasn't a limit in the number of pages for each book. Infinite.
I can't really agree to call that the ideal method of reading tho since that it's never ending,
and besides after a point it would only be a disorganized algorithm designed to forever produce more content.
~Leonzilla
Now this is cheap. In what way is it better? Why couldn't the soul wandering be a neutral or even a positive experience?
And I'm curious to know what he meant by chaos.
Also considering that there is no limit to possibilities, there is not a limit to everything either so in theory the only way that could work as he puts it would be in a realm that is also limitless. I suppose in that case you could say that somewhere within it everything exists, has existed, or will exist.
Or even just in the present tense exists, I mean limitless is limitless after all.
That does bring the question, what's the true origin of Accord?
The earlier book implied that he broke down Trillions to find a way to commit suicide not because he wanted company.
The two stories aren't congruent, also while Accord might have been responsible for the massive break down of trillions, and besides if it's true that in the past there was only trillions he is by default not the fist cause of them breaking down, at least not the way it was narrated here.
This was already mentioned elsewhere by Accord so it's rather redundant to mention it again.
So the presence of this paragraph implies that Accord thinks that the number of times he can cast his thought spell might be directly interlinked to the atomic number of his soul? I would think that it would be more likely to be dependent on something else like the amount of magic he uses, or the physical laws of the universe, but at the very least we can be pretty sure that his soul it's most likely over one trillion atoms (but wouldn't that make the chance of his soul synthesizing back together all that more unlikely once it breaks down? ).
Also what about Fluttershy? If Accord could only cast the spell once for every trillion atoms the only way that could work for her is if he is simply sharing the space of his accelerated mind.
Sadly, if Accord hasn't been able to disprove all those wild theories in “Omphaloskepsis.” then it's probably unlikely that he currently possess the ability to discredit enough books to narrow down the search to the true answers.
That's would be important information to have. As far as we can tell it could be anything.
Perhaps, but this story describes a multiverse that has no apparent way to either create or destroy anything, everything simply seems to exist in some corner of infinity already without no creation from anyone, but The Big Bangs.
Meaning that in this story depiction of reality nonexistence would be more of an impossibility than immortality or reincarnation.
But is that truly how things are or were those just more lies from the library?
Hopefully the story will answer that.
~Leonzilla
That statement might be a bit of a stretch with questions like the nature of the multiverse and the origin of trillions still unanswered, but since it's non-specific I guess we can just assume that anything within that category it's something that has remained unanswered for an exponentialy large amount of time.
This makes me question everything I assumed about the nature of Hope. Thus far it seemed that Kings and Queens only purpose was to work overseeing the experimental universes, but this paragraph estates that some also work on exploring infinity along with hope which I envision as a collective mind much like unity from Rick and Morty only at a cosmic scale.
So Hope uses Kings and Queens too as external sources to view and process information under a different perspective in other to understand it better?
I mean why else would Hope choose to work in such a manner?
Seems like a modest number to me if you consider that is the same unit used to describe the rate of just dead universes at a given moment here:
Trillions seem like a low number considering the hundreds of millions from earlier, perhaps you are talking British trillions?
But this might just be like when you made Discord tell Fluttershy he had been alive for trillions of years. Just for convenience I assume. Although since the excuse that Accord wouldn't be able to understand the actual number is out.
Maybe they just devote a relatively small number of Kings and Queens to experiment so that they can concentrate most of their souls in processing and exploring?
It still feels off tho.
Seriously?
Why would such a grand being in all it's vast age be unable to see how flawed that line of thinking is, it's truly beyond me.
Maybe is just that I can't imagine a way in which a state of being could demand desire any less than it already does.
When you are aware of the risks, in the vastness of the multiverse there is always bound to exist risk no matter how small the probability of something becomes it doesn't seem plausible for any of the characters to be able to make it zero. So to have desire as a safety mechanism to avoid unfavorable results seems like the most sensitive solution.
But the idea that memories and desire need to be a burden or that a mandatory 'ultimate' way to be it's the most desirable or poignant goal one can have to achieve through eternity are so very very wrong in my opinion.
Implying there is even such answer instead of the more likely scenario that nothing that restrictive can be applied everywhere with desirable results.
Another reason I don't like Hope's arguments is that the reason it believes immortality is less desirable than reincarnation is essentially because when it comes to immortality, being go on until an issue comes up that brings their existence to an end or to stagnation, while reincarnation, the process of resetting regularly is not the same as stagnation just because there is always the need to learn and do things over which should be noted it still would result in a state of stagnation on the big picture.
Accord is right, instead of resetting into stagnation as a means to procrastinate immortals should see to rice up to the challenge of dealing with every issue as it arises until there is no issue present that hasn't been dealt with. Then there would be nothing preventing immortals from finding one new goal after another for eternity.
Or if there is something that seems like it's impossible, you could spend forever trying to do that.
Desire is the key to being, it's our actions what defines us, our will what drives us, and what makes existence poignant.
For as long as there is desire there is a purpose.
Wow, so procrastination is equivalent to suicide in this case. That's deep.
Y U change the subject now?
This is the second time Hope proceeds by asking more unrelated questions rather than analysing/processing the issue discussed further despite not being concluded. The first time was when Accord propose that trying to find a way that we could all cope well with immortality being a preferable goal than looking for the ideal reincarnation circle.
Although, on another note, the burden that Hope experiences in being the way it is and uses as the reason they need/wish to find such ideal cycle does make a good counter argument for Hope not actually being in the middle of it's own reincarnation cycle.
Now about this so called voidwishers, this beings are characterised by actively wanting nothing but nonexistence; but by the example of Pinkie Pie, they aren't incapable of wanting other things so I would argue that voidwishers aren't a type of soul that trillions occasionally are; but more of a state of being, and the believed truth that any state of being is subject to/capable of change shows why the argument that a soul will necessarily lose hope and be a voidwisher isn't but a logical fallacy of nature of "because X then Y" it doesn't have to be that way, exceptions occur, and towards the infinity of time change is ever more likely to occur.
Now that is a worthy goal; Hope is just going about it the wrong way. Getting fed up with death couldn't possibly be enough to create an ever lasting desire to be without a means to renew it.
You need the ability to deal with all the physical psychological and sociological issues that arise over the course of eternity, as well as making existence poignant by having the means to always have a given desire of some sorts (that's really just a big part of dealing with the psychological issues). The nature of desire is to change as it wanders to alternatives. The only reasonable way to keep always a given desire is not so much to create a desire so strong that it will never fade (which might be impossible since never is limitless while desire might not), but to have always an alternative goal or desire to pursue inorther to have a reason to do, to be.
The possibilities are endless, there really is no need to fall into a death-wish as long as you understand that.
Hum, no, this is clearly just taking place to expose the conflict of the story, not because "it would be best to make sure " before they even start. They can't ever be sure a hate towards existence won't ever surface in Pinkie or anyone. There is always the possibility. What they should do is just deal with those feelings when they appear.
Triggering them just conveniently creates the experience of dealing with those feelings at their most extreme. But even if Accord and company fails to deal with them and convince Pinkie to live 4ever that doesn't mean it's impossible that only would mean that it was beyond their present ability to do it.
So in reality there would be no point to rushing things, but for the sake of the story we can assume that Hope had a brain-fart so that this can happen.
~Leonzilla
PS: I might have some grammar mistakes in this comment, so if anything was left unclear just let me know and I will be glad to elaborate even further.
This topics can easily fill several books
I'm unfamiliar with this terms:
-Interlacer
-Silencer
-Seeker
-Interloper
Is this a reference to something?
~Leonzilla
Let's see, so Hope not only put on a silly requirement to allow for experimentation, but also presents itself as the antithesis of its name by not even having enough Hope to let Pinkie finish what she was about to say.
I guess the rule that a collective groups intelligence it's usually smaller than that of it's most capable individuals remains true for Hope even though I had hoped it would be otherwise. xD
Does she? Because you (Accord) and Fluttershy seemed to be happy to be changing from one form to another while at the library.
~Leonzilla
Sometimes Cosmos.
Sometimes doing something it's worth the risk of possibly having to deal with regret later.
But usually when you come to truly regret something, it isn't.
But of course regrets do not define the entirety of existence.
That is, unless you want them to.
This paragraph gives me the impression that even when Accord has just gained the knowledge of everything that everything has ever done thought and be in Equestria, what he gained was merely rational knowledge and understanding.
That leaves out instinctual understanding.
This idea comes from Accord showing no change in his personal views of immortality and while granted none of the things in Equestria had yet experience it, it stands to reason that they wouldn't experience it in the same way and that everyone could have a different perspective on what meaning they could see in existence or what could make immortality be worth it for them.
It wouldn't make sense for someone to be so wrapped up in it's own perspective right after having gained/experienced the instinctual understanding of so many for if he could predict how the would experience and view immortality then I would expect to see a lot more depth in his overall reasoning and views.
After all, in reality there is always many truths to be acknowledged.
What's life without freedom?
But Accord! You are no only deciding what you are doing, you are also deciding how you are doing it.
Don't neglect the how. The how can make all the difference.
~Leonzilla
Interesting how Accord would decide to give away each being a book instead of simply allowing them to experience their memories through their memory covers like Pinkie Pie?
I can see the advantage of being conveniently at hand but there is also the matter of missing out on the full experience by being restrained to the limitations of narrative and the length of the book, that could be both good and bad in some ways, It is as described here:
I find this part odd, but if that's the way Accord want to go about it, it's fine just hopefully his presence will help prevent Scrounge from becoming habituated to his prison rather than harden him further.
Wasn't his name Scrounge?
The thing is, that in an idealistic environment like the one he is provided it's possible to find long term happiness. It wouldn't be easy, of course, but I say it's possible.
But in this circumstances we have to reconsider the way we think about right and wrong, after all is there anything wrong with doing something that doesn't harm anything or anyone in any way?
Trillions and souls are repeatedly mentioned to be rare and precious as it's said they can't be created, however Hope's experiments always seem to allow for the addition of a seemingly infinite number of souls without any signs of ever having to regulate the quantity in each place. That's a little incongruent. With trillions being seemingly both rare and infinite at once.
Finally, I would feel alot more confident about they being able to make eternity work if Accord and Fluttershy had really come to understand everything rather than just know it by reading the planet's spell.
That certainly makes a huge difference in their implied skills as overseers.
~Leonzilla
So taxes are unavoidable, but death is not?
Well maybe in immortal Equestria, but here I think it might be a good way to satisfy some morbid curiosity.
To an extent, that's all irrational.
Well at least that is the case once you know how you can empower yourself to prevent such events from happening unless you wish otherwise.
7229554 am I to interpret that as you working devils advocate here by writing a story where the characters perspective is practically opposite than yours?
If so I deeply approve.
~Leonzilla