This story is a sequel to Are Humans Evil?
When Princess Twilight Sparkle first appeared on the lawn of Jacob and Mary Klein, many people knew that things would never be the same for both Equestria and Earth.
Still magic, technology, and cultural exchange will transform the two worlds in ways no one could've expected, bringing new wonders and new terrors along the way.
The future is scary, but also very hopeful.
One thing's for sure: humans and Equestrians will be in for the ride of their lives.
There isn't going to be an overarching story arc. Just various vignettes exploring how both Equestria and Earth would influence each other.
Chapters (4)
Aww.........
Ponies do give hope to the hopeless.
Yay a sequel! So many good ones to look forward too this month. I wonder how the ponies tackle the culture of the people in the internet like memes and other...sources...just a curious brony.
So basically, they blessed the rains down in Africa? Dohohohoho~
Ahh, refreshing to see a pessimist regain his dreams instead of wallowing in his pessimism when change comes knocking. All too often authors treat pessimism like a circle.
The 4th largest sea in the world. Returning.
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I want to hate you... but I can't.
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Feels are certainly powerful.
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While Equestria may not be perfect, magic would offer hope in areas like the Aral Sea.
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Human culture will be the next chapter.
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Damn. I really wish I had remembered that song. That reference could been a boon to my story.
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Knowing that creatures can bring you rain would be uplifting to the part of the population that still does subsistence farming. Or in the case of Arman, can help bring back what was lost.
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I imagine if future human civilizations gain the power of terraforming, rebuilding the Aral Sea would be one of the first things on the list to fix.
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Not that much.
Hmmm... life is grey. Imma wait for the other shoe
Huh, I feel like the author has a checklist of all mankind's greatest sins against our world for the ponies to fix or at least address.
One thing I always feel like gets skipped over in these 'magic solves everything' scenarios is the lack of consideration for potential side effects that an unknown force like magic would have on our world.
Still I suppose a poorly thought out solution would be more in keeping with human and pony nature then leaving a disaster unaddressed.
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Oh please. I'm not gonna write a story where ponies are the saviors of mankind. As the title indicates, the consequences of what I will called the "EE (Equestria-Earth) Exchange" are not always going to be good.
This story won't be one where the magical rainbow laser will erase man's sins.
I think...you might make a good point.
Bringing rain to the Aralkum Desert might be wonderful, or perhaps it might have negative repercussions on the environment. I can't think of any way magic might have a negative impact on the environment, but maybe that could explored.
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.-Teddy Roosevelt.
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To be fair, a lot of the speculation on magical side effectsdepends on how you view magic in the setting. If it's a pre-existing but rare phenomenon (like say quantum shenanigans) then the effects might be mild.
If magic DOES have some unexpected result it would most likely be some manner of 'wild magic' like say imagine if the African Jungle stated becoming more like the Everfree due to exposure to magic, that's the sort of 'side effect' I imagine from using Pony magic to solve problems.
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That is something to consider...
But I am not really interested in writing technobabble. My story is more or less soft sci fi: I want to explore the cultural and societal effects of ponies and humans meeting.
Ahh yes, rap music. While I'm rarely one for censorship, I've always found an amusing irony in people who sing about how cool it is to do drugs, fuck all the bitches and cap the cops be all upset and offended when other people assume certain stereotypes their music promotes are true about them.
And a monotone yaaay for Ponyville turning into a city. But that's my village born country bumpkin bias talking.
This chapter is about music. When I first saw the title, I thought it would have something to do with guns and school shootings. I was like ‘right to maximum controversy I see’. Glad I was wrong.
I can see valid arguments both for and against censorship here, but I'd have to side with censorship for this one. Equestria has no cultural or historical context for J-Wash's music to make sense, so it just comes across as endorsing crime and disorder. Plus there's the fact that children listen to this station, which needs to be taken into account. Keep it PG-13 at most.
The ponies live in a borderline utopia headed by a benevolent deity-figure. Telling ponies to "Ef da police!" makes no sense.
I don't think the music should be banned per se, but I don't think the pony station should endorse it.
Now actual good rap music is perfectly fine and I'd be more concerned how 'cRAP music' would set up a negative bias towards the entire genre.
....okay.....two points.
Point One: The older rap when it first started actually sounded like music unlike the garbage out now.
Point Two: I direct you to a man with more authority on the subject than me.
It’s the 50th again!
It is always like this when something new and exiting appears: “it hurts our children” is the most common argument against it. You can’t prevent change
9798514 Funny thing about music, it is controversial when the generation before are using the “it hurts our children” argument. Parents wants what best for their children, but sometimes it’s prevent them to think differently.
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I am genuinely surprised by these comments. I was expecting people to bash Spoiled Rich for being a busybody.
But I am glad that people also see that music censorship is not nearly as black and white as it often is, even if its promoter isn't as "pro-family" as she believes herself to be.
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Every generation of pop music, going all the way basic to pop culture's beginning in the 1920s, has encountered those people who say pop music will destroy society.
Henry Ford himself thought jazz music was the worst thing ever.
So much so, he blamed the Jews for it.
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She is a busybody, but... she kinda has a point? Young children have minds that are still being shaped by what they see, experience and hear from their surroundings. We put age restrictions on movies and video games for these kinds of things for exactly this reason (heck, America even goes the questionably extra mile and censors every swear on TV), but music somehow always gets a free pass.
And that's before we get into the culture clash issues. Kids of a nation with next to no crime or racism have no cultural background to rationalize the music with. They're much more likely to just take the songs at face value.
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Again, I'm glad the people who read this AREN'T just looking at it as a black and white issue. These are the comments I enjoy reading.
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It's a solid case of 'Jerk has a point'. Just because I dislike someone on a personal level doesn't mean I can't agree with them on an issue.
Also to be honest the humans Devon and J-Wash haven't done much to endear themselves either. Their first reaction when they hear they've offended someone is to call them a 'patronizing little bitch' paints a rather negative picture to me. Even if the reaction is valid.
Frankly I'm eager to hear this debate. I just hope the ponies can muster a better advocate then Spoiled, she's not who I'd want representing....any issue really.
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Calling her a Pony Fascist as well really doesn't endear him to me as well.
In particular the music stylings of gangster rap are pretty contentious nowadays.
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Yeah, I'd chuck Spoiled to the farthest back of the crowd as far as possible. You just know she's going to screw up everything by attacking the music for "being human" instead of addressing more logical concerns and solutions such as "are you aware that you are calling out to young children everywhere to riot against the police? Should we not air this music during a timeslot when children are less likely to listen to radios?"
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Reminds me of when I did a presentation on the criticism of violent video games, Which turned into will look back at all of the “force is corrupting the youth”. It’s kind of hilarious to see the kind of things that the adults thought were “Made by the devil“, even ragtime music of all things.
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Yea I really don’t enjoy the direction rap (and a lot of other genres really) has taken. I’ve never really enjoyed it, but I used to at least be able to see why other did and respect it as an art that takes time practice and skill to produce. Look up “the record effect” if you want some interesting theories on the deteriorating compositional integrity and artistic virtuosity of modern music often in relation to the advancement of audio technology.
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Honestly I’m of two minds with this. On one hand certain freedoms and liberties should be enforced and you should be allowed to both produce and consume content as per your personal prerogative, and others shouldn’t be able to do more than argue otherwise.
On the other hand however I really hate this kind of music. I have a lot of family in various police forces. These are dangerous jobs interacting with dangerous people. So when I hear music that essentially advocates and glorifies the violent death of my family I take issue.
Edit: point being I’m seriously glad people are looking at this from different angles instead of polarizing the issue.
Someone must be cutting onions nearb—no.
I hate that phrase. It is a coward’s phrase. Something said by those too proud to admit they cried.
So, I admit it. I was moved to tears. Masterfully done.
The song there at the end, that is what he should have been playing, the sort of thing that would have made sense. While I certainly do agree with J-Wash's arguments, the song that started all this was far too vulgar and carried overtly disruptive apparent meanings.
Of course, there's also how it seems certain parts of "Rap Culture" appear to be feeding into the problem and ultimately creating a cycle of feedback, but that's not really something that applies to the fic right now.
"redandready45 proudly presents: Debates with Strawmen"
Overall the debate could have gone better for both sides. Spoiled was better then I feared, worse that I would've hoped. Jamal wasn't too much better, as he utterly failed to notice the lack of cultural relevance his music possessed in Equestrian society. His later work at the end of the chapter was much better then his hate rap that started this.
Hopefully the Musical Safety Board keeps its censorship reserved only for music that actually needs restricting, and acts in a sane and level way....unlike our friggin' FCC here in the US.
I think you meant "objective" here.
I very much agree with the core of this argument. It is, after all, a parent's job to raise their children. However, the parents don't control when the radio plays what songs. For that to be in the parent's hands, they would need the very board Spoiled is trying to create.
Any music bought in shops or on Itunes though? Yeah, that's entirely up to the parents. Same with movies and video games: if it has an age rating above your kid's age, it's your job as a parent to make it clear to your kid why he's not allowed to watch or play it.
It's a passionate response, but it completely sidesteps the actual question: the music does portray violence against the police as a good thing, and it does so in a way that generalizes the police as any and all police in the world, not just the ones where he lives (and even that is a gross generalization) and that violence against any and all police is a good thing. In that regard, the music does promote violence.
Another concern that wasn't addressed is that in areas without serious crime problems, you don't see police every day, and talk to them even less, so for many children this song would be their first introduction to police, and would shape their views of them.
Frankly, the board's conclusion is a sensible one: continue airing the music, but do so at a time when children aren't going to be listening to it. I would have argued for late night rather than early morning though, when children are in bed but adults are still up. TV's been doing it that way with age rated movies for decades.
Wish I could say I was surprised spoiled was racist but I’m not, still it would be fun if she found diamond Tiara listening to a downloaded copy of his music. Probably in the middle of head banging.
On another note I feel that she won the battle but lost the war, she barely got it to pass and didn’t seem to have much support from the youth. Meaning that in a few years they might challenge it and have it disbanded. Which would be a nice comeuppance seeing herself left behind.
While I may not agree with his stance on authority figures, I most certainly support Jamal's use of songs, as free speech is the most important part of any proper society.
Also, I really hope that terrorists don't show up. The thought popped into my head whilst writing this comment, and is quite horrifying.
I wonder if there were any Abyssinians in the crowd that last part
It feels a bit lopsided that there were only ponies asking Jamal questions and only humans asking Spoiled questions. A mix might have better to show that this isn't a matter of humans versus ponies, but a matter that has more nuance than that. What is considered 'free speech' is a contested issue nowadays and the ponies are a bit behind in on being able to spread information like we can. They need to catch up, but also keep true to their own customs. Besides Vinyl, who likes this style of music and hosted Jamal, and Tiara who is a rebellious teenager anyways, is there any pony who would support Jamal?
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I was trying to draw a contrast between the stereotype of gangsta rap (the original song) vs its power to talk about social change (the song at the end).
What do you mean? Are you saying rap culture is proven to create a cycle of criminality.
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Well, both characters come from extremes. Spoiled is a wealthy mare, while Jamal was raised in the inner city. The two are strong contrasts. Jamal is trying to explain civic corruption to ponies who live in a mostly benevolent magical nation.
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Yeah. It frustrates me when moral guardians basically tell media that it is their job to provide children guidance. Now obviously there are certain types of media children shouldn't watch, but that burden ought to fall on parents.
Jamal isn't meant to an unbias party. He is someone who has been persecuted by police for how he looks and what he wears, and like Spoiled ,is kind of guilty of living in his own bubble.
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Spoiled isn't really racist in the American sense. She's just a classist person who doesn't understand (and choose not to understand) institutional corruption and how that shapes a person. Thus she labels gangsta rap as barbaric without caring about the context of the music.
Well, I tried to illustrate that through Diamond Tiara. Spoiled Rich sees herself as a wonderful mother, but her own daughter not only rejects her values, but finds meaning in the music that Spoiled hates.
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The reason why ponies ask Jamal the questions is because they don't understand the reason for his somewhat inflammatory music, while most human beings do.
I'm sure there are plenty of ponies who will like gangsta rap. Diamond Tiara is most likely not the only pony who lives a repressed life.
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Free speech is important, but how much free speech is allowed will always have limits depending on one's culture, even in a nation like America that enshrines free speech. I'm pretty sure that J-Wash's attitude on the freedom of expression for example would do a full 180 if someone were to write rap a song about how "the blacks should return to their place at the feet of the pure white master-race" or some other absurdly racist song. It just wouldn't fly in modern American culture, or indeed most modern cultures, to have such a song.
Similarly in Equestria, where the police has little to no corruption and politics have been stable for a thousand years thanks to the immortal Princesses and ensured an equally long prosperity, a song about how you should "fight authority" is going to ruffle a lot of feathers.
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Now that itself is a touchy subject I don't think I can properly express my thoughts over, but here it goes.
I would say it isn't "rap culture" itself, but a conflux of social and environmental factors, leading people to value rebelling more than overcoming and vanquishing the factors they're originally meant to be rebelling against.
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There are no times this frustrates me more than when I see parents complaining about violent video games. Every time I see it happen, I want to grab the parent in question, shake them while yelling "then why did you buy it for him!? These things have age ratings for a reason!"
I really would love to see him and Octavia talk more. Just that initial assumption that Octavia was a high-class lady and therefore automatically on Spoiled's side when it came to his music and her calmly noting that her class had nothing to do with it before trying to help him was already gold. Her explaining to him why his music could be taken so offensively in Equestria and letting him see outside of his bubble would be an absolute treat.
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I do mention this at one point. One of the ponies asks J-Wash if he believes hate speech is OK. He says no, but he also denies his anti-police song is "hate-speech".
As usual, human liberties are important, but there are occasions where giving everybody pure rights just doesn't work.
Equestria seems to be a perfect hierarchy in a way. The magic of Equestria has the power to assign ponies proper roles in society through a cutie mark.
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I guess that makes some sense, but a lot of rap does push for challenging the system, and not just glorifying violence and the gangster lifestyle.
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It is doubly stupid when a mass shooting happens and these parents somehow rationalize the video games being the problem, not guns or the lack of adequate counseling or mental health funding that would've actually prevented the mass shooting.
It is one of the reasons I personally find cultural warriors to be incredibly repugnant: they push people away from actually trying to solve societal problems.
I don't have plans to explore J-Wash in my next storyline. Still, J-Wash learning to escape his own personal bubble is something I might return to later.
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A claim which still baffles me, since the song is quite clear in decrying all cops as evil and glorifying the act of beating up the police.
Hmm, less assign and more... guide. A cutie mark is a magical symbol that displays and magically reinforces ones talent, and 'talent' can at times be described very broadly. What one does with that talent is still entirely up to the pony. Fluttershy with her talent of talking to animals could have become a professional vetenarian, biologist or zookeeper as easily as the caretaker she chose to be.
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Well the issue with Hate speech is that if you want to get technical a speech condemning the Nazi regime is basically 'Hate speech" against Nazis. The real question is "what is okay to hate?"
I view Hate as a matter of personal passion and morality, and thus highly subjective. But another may have an entirely different definition and view on the subject.
*Twisted Sister intensifies*
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Free speech is not free of consequences. You cannot threaten anyone, you can not provoke someone to act in violence, you cannot act like a dick simple enough.
>all these people who don't actually listen to modern rap music complaining about modern rap music
Oh screw off. Great modern rap music is being made all the time, but you can't be bothered to look for it.
https://open.spotify.com/album/6Cun8XaplQbI9DtM1zPvFr
https://open.spotify.com/album/36ey87oef5xj4essoJksDx
https://open.spotify.com/album/74dDupoB1ObBJheVTEvYwD
https://open.spotify.com/album/5ilsl5R2lGACTnPZMKIp7o
https://open.spotify.com/album/6pwuKxMUkNg673KETsXPUV
https://open.spotify.com/album/1tJxMO9l5YQEOsqfk7PlTd
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And yeah the major problem is that you don't just f***ing START someone with Gangster rap. That's stupid, they have no cultural context, and also no musical context. They have no idea what good or bad rap sounds like, so it's all going to sound like nonsense. A taste needs to be developed. The Pharcyde is a great introduction to rap. I, personally, finally got on the rap train with Jellyfish Brigade because that was the first time I'd ever heard rap music that had lyrics that actually was poetry.
Noice