• Member Since 6th Jun, 2015
  • offline last seen Apr 1st, 2019

SprocketProductions


Creativity in its purest form is self-expression. I choose to try to express myself in everything I do.

T

Aria is not a normal mare. She was born physically male, therefore is perceived to be a stallion by her family. She has to make life work for her, but life doesn't seem to volunteer itself to assist her.

Chapters (3)
Comments ( 59 )

Something that's always confused me about the whole transgender issue. Why does it seem that females who are born males are disproportionately presented, while males born as females seems almost unheard of by comparison?

8373493
There are males out there born females but the process of turning them male takes more time and costs more than turning male to female so that's why we usually don't hear much about them

8373493
8373555
It's less common. We don't really know why, but genetics and environment both undoubtedly play a role. Same thing for gay women vs. gay men.

The mare's expression softens, "Aria, you thought you were going to lose me over that?"

This was a very sweet moment.

"I apologize, Mr. Melody, Aria and I are not in a relationship. We're just friends."

This line felt rather forced, though, to me.

Overall, I would say that the story got a lot better once the dialogue started. Some of the internal thoughts at the beginning were quite wall-of-text-y. The first big paragraph in particular, with all its talk of processes, I found very heavy-going. I'm honestly not sure how one practises 'show, don't tell' when most of the conflict is in the POV character's head. A few ideas spring to mind, but none ideal.

I must say that ponies in cars was a bit much of a leap for me. I'm guessing the story is set considerably further into the future than the show, by which time technology has progressed? I think perhaps more/different explanation there could have made that clearer. I have to ask, though, if you wanted to have cars and coding, why not set the story in the Equestria Girls world, where they have all that anyway? I think some of the societal pressures surrounding transgender issues would be more at home there, too, where it hasn't been explicitly shown to be such a matriarchy as Equestria.

Wonder why all the dislikes?

8373666
Because for many the subject is still as controversial as Mysterious Mare Do Well. For the longest time gender identity disorder, gender dysphoria, and similar associated terms were still classified as being a mental disorder. Some say it was declassified due to political pressure rather than because of sound science finding that it's not actually a disorder, so there's a natural tendency to resist it. If science is subject to political bias, what can be trusted anymore?

As for me, I'm still trying to sort my way through everything. I just can't wrap my head around the concept of someone looking at their body, and being convinced that it's wrong all the way down to the molecular, chromosomal level. I don't know about anybody else's mind but it certainly boggles mine.

MJP
MJP #8 · Aug 18th, 2017 · · 16 · Who am I? ·

transgenders are suffering from a disease called gender dysmorphia that leads to sucicide, please just stop glamorizing this type of thing

8373493
even flamboyant girl in men men are still men. This is a patriarchy after all, and even though their still women in the inside, their still boys on the outside.

8373880
I'm asking about why there seem to be so few examples of those who're men on the inside, while those who're women on the inside seem to be a dime a dozen by comparison.

8373853
It doesn't necessarily lead to the suicide, although it is blamed as a factor of such.

8373493
I honestly can't answer that question. Statistically, you are correct, but I have no explanation for that

8373611
Your advice is appreciated, and I do see what you're saying about it. This is the first chapter of this reboot and a lot of my stories have a rocky start, and I think this is an example of that. Many people complained to me about how the original handled its issues in "one liners" and "melodrama" and didn't really accurately reflect the true struggles of said issues. I didn't base this in the EQG universe because I don't really like how that one handles design and things. This is advanced to the point of modern technology, though

8373666
I have my suspicions, but because I would prefer to give who I suspect to be behind it the benefit of the doubt, I won't point any fingers

8373853
I am a transgender woman who suffers from gender dysphoria, which by the way, is different from dysmorphia. I am not glamorizing anything. Gender dysphoria sucks, and I'm conveying that it sucks. Notice how I described it. If that sounds "glamorous" to you, then you must enjoy some pretty weird stuff. You need to shut up and stop white knighting a community I'm part of to me. You have no right to invalidate me.

8373880
If you're saying that transgender people "are" their assigned sex, your first impression with me is far from positive.

8374093
You cant change your sex with your mind.

8374168
Nobody ever said you could. I don't like transphobic people. If you care to save your personal reputation towards me, either drop it or leave me alone. Got it?

MJP

8373897
I'm not trying to sound homophobic or transphobic I honestly believe Love is Love despite being LDS but the fact that being homosexual is not considered a mental disorder and hasn't since the 80's but gender dysphoria still is makes me kind of iffy when it comes to transgenders, especially when the media makes it look like there are way more transgenders than they actually are, I know gender identity is a struggle, but I don't like the media glorifying it and "normalizing" it, in my eyes, that would be if the media glamorized being high on the autism spectrum

MJP
MJP #19 · Aug 19th, 2017 · · 10 · Who am I? ·

8374087
sorry, but when I see stories about transgender ponies, thats the first instinct that comes to mind, thy are glorifying and "normalizing" something that only a fraction of people have, and is still considered a mental disorder by the APA while Homosexuality was hasn't been since the 80's yet they are lumped together

but I am sorry if I hurt you even if I didn't mean to, it's an issue, but not one I think should be so "normalized"

8374093
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how exactly that works. How someone concludes that they themselves, their very identity, is somehow different from the body they're born in. I feel like I'm missing something very obvious, but at the same time I feel like I'm trying to comprehend something that's simply beyond my level of understanding.

I tried asking similar questions to someone else once before, trying to understand what it was about their body that made them so uncomfortable with themselves. They in turn asked me some questions about myself and what it was about my sex and/or gender that I was comfortable with. All I can say is, holy shit did things get very dark, very fast from there. I tried to offer up an answer, and I wound up going off on an existential meltdown tangent in the process. You know the kind where a person will be asking things like "what does it all mean?" and such where they try and understand their reason for being alive and the nature of reality? That's where I was. I wound up scaring them, I wound up scaring myself, because neither of us was prepared for that.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about the subject, and that I need more information before making an informed decision. But psychiatrists are of limited value, they can only tell you so much, and a lot of it is in technobabble that doesn't make a lot of sense in laymen terms. Take gender dysphoria for example. We're told that it's no longer classified as being a psychological disorder, but I don't understand how, when others who experience it and attempt to correct the problem do so by undergoing significant, invasive surgeries to change their body structure, and become dependent on a lifetime regimen of chemical compounds to maintain certain physical changes. To someone looking at the entire matter from an outside perspective, and without intention of being rude, how does such no longer qualify as a mental disorder, while something like anorexia of schizophrenia both are? How is being unhappy with one's body under one standard not a disorder, but it is a disorder under another standard?

I've asked these and other questions to try and get a better understanding of the subject matter, but I've never gotten any actual answers. I don't want to hear from some psychiatrist who knows only what's printed in a textbook or a reference manual, I want to hear from people who have to live with/through this kind of thing, because they can give a far better answer than some detached clinician who's getting kickbacks from drug companies to peddle their crap. But whenever I ask, I get treated with hostility, like I'm somehow the bad guy for even asking individuals about their condition, as if merely asking for clarification somehow threatens their sense of self.

8374299
I'm not going to say where I stand on the matter one way or another, but even if I don't support it, I'll still treat the person with respect. Disagreement is one thing, and some of the best discussions I've ever had come from people I disagree with. But bullying is something else, and I won't tolerate. Homosexual, transgender, undetermined, it doesn't really matter, I'm of the mind that someone engaged in bullying another person for their position needs a good flattening.

But then again I know how to disagree respectfully, so that's just me.

MJP

8374395
I know I should have clarified what I meant by that comment earlier and I'm sorry

8374175
Lol, why do people always just go to the words 'transphobic', 'racist', 'sexist', etc. when people say things they don't like about who they are?

Bruh, if you were born with a penis, you're bioglogically a male. That's not going to change no matter what hormonal therapy you go through. Same thing goes if you're born with a vagina. Pretending that's not true is ignoring scientific facts and that is stupid.

How is pointing that out transphobic?

8374168
But I thought if I wished hard enough all my dreams would come true? Besides who says I can't really be a pony if I want to be.

8376225
Ever heard of sexual reassignment surgery?

8374299

sorry, but when I see stories about transgender ponies, thats the first instinct that comes to mind, thy are glorifying and "normalizing" something that only a fraction of people have, and is still considered a mental disorder by the APA while Homosexuality was hasn't been since the 80's yet they are lumped together

Well, you can be a decent human being and realize that people who identify as transgender are still people. Still human beings, with all the things that make human beings such an interesting a diverse group of people. Worthy of being treated with respect.

You'd think otherwise concerning how they are spoken about by some people. Stories that have transgendered characters are put forward either A) Because it's what the author knows, and/or B) Because they want to show that such characters are worthy of respect and consideration, just like most other groups. Attempts to suggest they shouldn't appear in stories will just leave the hate-speech being the defining characteristic in people's mind about them, and I cannot possibly see how that is a good outcome to anyone, especially basic human decency.

There is also the fact that, as the author said, it's their life. There is no agenda here except writing what the author is familiar with.

There is no majority of fics on this site that deal with the issue. This is a tiny minority of stories on the subject. And you want to silence even that.

8381340
I'm pretty sure Seventh Heaven is talking about biological sex, which is completely different from gender. While I do not know what is views on transgendered people are, he has not said anything explicitly transphobic. Gender after all is a social construct, and to identify as a gender that differs from the one assumed at birth due to biological sex is perfectly fine, which is what transgender people are.

I would like to however point out that there are some flaws with Seventh Heaven's points, as biological sex is actually determined by hormones, which get triggered by the sex chromosomes. Sometimes this does not go perfectly, so one's biological sex may even differ from what one's chromosomes says (cue Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, which causes some people with XY chromosomes to be completely female due to estrogen except in their failure to develop ovaries).

Regardless, sexual reassignment surgery does not change one's sex, and only the exterior appearance. However, one's biological sex frankly shouldn't really matter, since the gender one identifies is the true thing to respected. Still jumping on someone and labelling them as transphobic is just as bad practice as a truly transphobic person insulting transgender people

8373493
Because AMAB people are disproportionally loud on the Internet and so don't have the same initial socialization that works against Afab folks? I am not sure, actually! I have also noticed that but I'm also spending more time in transgirl circles so it could be selection bias.

Sorry that these comments became a dumpsterfire, from one transfolk to another (so I've gathered from comments, please tell me if I'm wrong.)

Your command of the reflective narration is commendable. There are some nice moments and images in the first half of this text. However, you need to work towards a more even pace, so that the internal does not utterly drown out the external. I suggest intertwining them. Avoiding long multi paragraph musings can often be accomplished by connecting the physical to the mental. We often do things while we think, even in dissociation.

Love and Tolerate

So many seem to forget that motto nowadays.:ajsleepy:

8374395

They in turn asked me some questions about myself and what it was about my sex and/or gender that I was comfortable with. All I can say is, holy shit did things get very dark, very fast from there. I tried to offer up an answer, and I wound up going off on an existential meltdown tangent in the process.

Woof. Been there, a lot. That can happen.

Take gender dysphoria for example. We're told that it's no longer classified as being a psychological disorder, but I don't understand how, when others who experience it and attempt to correct the problem do so by undergoing significant, invasive surgeries to change their body structure, and become dependent on a lifetime regimen of chemical compounds to maintain certain physical changes ... How is being unhappy with one's body under one standard not a disorder, but it is a disorder under another standard?

Okay. Let me make something very clear here, in no uncertain terms, and know that I speak from personal experience and from research using WPATH. Gender dysphoria is a serious problem, which can and has made life difficult and painful for those who have it. For most, almost all, sufferers, it needs treatment. However, the medical transition is not a symptom of gender dysphoria. It is that treatment. In the case of your anorexia example, the corrective action (starving, in that case) doesn't address the problem and does harm to the person. But in the case of gender dysphoria, medical transition is as safe as it can be and it has been proven time and again to be effective treatment for dysphoria.

8394974
Good advice. I'd like to add to that:

The dialogue was a little technical. That's of course fine for the character's thoughts if that's just how they think, but it doesn't feel very natural for it to be the way everypony talks. I planned to say that Aurora instantly having the best response to Aria's confession was a very quick resolution to a lot of buildup, but then I thought ... well, that's kind of how it can go in real life. If it were me, I'd insert an extra moment of silence, just to make it feel a little more satisfying, but apart from that it's fine.

nice chapter looking forward to more

I haven't seen transgener themes seriously explored in FimFiction. No, I'm not considering Rule 34 clop to be "serious". While in the show canon, switching gender spells are beyond the reach of the most powerful unicorns (Twlight vs. Trixie and the amulet episode), this story is set many years later, when such an advance could be possible. I'm curious how you would move forward, whether via temporary try-it-before-you-buy-it method (joke potion, poison joke, etc.) and/or permanent (Chaos Magic, improved Unicorn magic, elective procedure requiring funds way beyond Aria's means, etc.).

I like that the primary motif in the story so far is "change". Change of the protagonist's gender, the change/evolution of Equestrian society, change in the level of trust in their relationship. The fact that the protagonist paradoxically desires change in himself while feeling affinity for the old Equestrian culutre just makes him more interesting.

I find Aria's description of her thought process to be interesting. I've read enough young adult angst poetry to recognize this as not the same thing. Frankly, his emotional feast or famine "disorder" strikes me as something unlikely to be solved by changing gender. Interested to see if his emotional state continues to evolve going forward.

We just have a small taste of Aurora's personality so far: mature, loyal. Looking forward for more depth here.

One criticism. Aurora is Aria's only friend, and has doubtless been so for months. Presuming that Aria's father has never met her before is stretching credibility a bit to far. His dad could just have easily said a "Dad Joke" such as: "And there's that beautiful mare Aurora! So when are you two going to start giving my wife and I grandfoals to spoil?" Given the personality you have presented for him, this sort of facetious joke would be in character for him.

One typo: "stepped in confidentially" should be "confidently"

8395030
On both sides of the aisle, unfortunately.

8395907
Normally I don't use the quote function when replying, but there's a lot of points that need to be addressed individually.

Okay. Let me make something very clear here, in no uncertain terms, and know that I speak from personal experience and from research using WPATH. Gender dysphoria is a serious problem, which can and has made life difficult and painful for those who have it.

I've certainly never believed otherwise.

For most, almost all, sufferers, it needs treatment. However, the medical transition is not a symptom of gender dysphoria. It is that treatment.

It was never implied otherwise. I'm simply trying to wrap my head around the various intricacies involved with determining whether or not something is a disorder, or to what extent.

Supposedly the treatment for gender dysphoria is a lifetime dependency on a chemical regimen, and surgery that cuts off perfectly normal parts of the body, sometimes a great deal of parts based on what I currently understand. But for the most part these changes really don't extend past the surface. It addresses the matter of presentation, but that's about it.

In the case of your anorexia example, the corrective action (starving, in that case) doesn't address the problem and does harm to the person.

Starvation isn't the corrective action, however, anymore than significant levels of alcohol is the corrective action for addressing audio hallucinations from schizophrenia. It's a misguided attempt at self-medication, but the person suffering from it continues to believe they're morbidly obese even when they're skin and bones. No matter how much weight they lose, it's still never enough, because it doesn't address the underlying problem. It's something that requires a lot of psychological therapy to actually address.

But in the case of gender dysphoria, medical transition is as safe as it can be and it has been proven time and again to be effective treatment for dysphoria.

But there are cases where someone has undergone the surgical procedure thinking it would fix the problem, only to discover that it didn't and they regretted the ever making the decision in the first place, and then had to undergo even more surgical procedures to try and undo the changes. Doesn't this suggest that there's at least some psychological aspect to the matter that can't be addressed with any amount of physical procedures?

8396010
So i just want to point a few things out in this one really quick but before I do I want to put some things forward for sake of clarity. I am a trans woman. I have PTSD and Depression.

So on to the points I want to clarify. First those who receive SRS, Sexual reassignment surgery, the regret rate is less than 3%. a number that is shockingly low and is possibly an error of data. (Which is to say that it is nearly insignifigant amount and as such hard to draw conclusions from outside of its rarity). Secondly I am speaking from expierence her but as a person who had depression, from the death of my mother, and PTSD for CSA (an acronym I shall not explain cause if you know what it is then you get it if you don't you don't really want to know). My dysphoria about my body is such that when it rears its head it is more intense than any other issue I have ever had. More crushing than anything. I have panic attacks on a regular (ie daily) and I would rather have a panic attack than an episode of Dysphoria. I am under no illusions that the three issues don't feed off of each other but Dysphoria is by far the worst of my problems. The only treatment that has any clinical data to show success at treating Dysphoria is going under gender transition. WHat that means is different for different people but Hormone replacement therapy or SRS is the only way that helps these people and does so with a sucess rate that is far above what is considered good. Most trans people who seek transition related care and recieve it become more healthy (mentally) than most cis people. The reason this isn't considered a phsycological disorder is because a that brings stygma to the issue and b that the solution, the only solution we have right now is a physical one.

8396010
I know that about anorexia; I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Sorry about that, I'll be more careful.

It addresses the matter of presentation, but that's about it.

That's not exactly true if we factor in the emotional changes and the deeper physical effects hormones can give us. Not to get too TMI, but there are certain bodily processes that testosterone has changed for me, and because of those changes I'm significantly more comfortable in my body. There's something that no longer happens that used to cast a shadow over my whole month, and something else that used to make me panicked and miserable that I'm now actually able to enjoy. Getting any clearer than that might turn you off, but I'm sure you take my meaning all the same. Medical transition does more than address presentation.

What's more, addressing the matter of presentation is far from nothing. It can be deeply upsetting in the long term to feel as though some physical attribute prevents you from being yourself, or to constantly worry that someone else will notice that attribute and challenge who you are, or even become violent. Just for an example ... do you think most of us can go to the beach or a waterpark without constantly worrying? Depending on where they live, do you think some of us can risk undressing anywhere other than in complete private? I wouldn't dismiss the value of presentation or suggest that it can't really help.

Speaking of that bit of speculation that these treatments aren't effective:

But there are cases where someone has undergone the surgical procedure thinking it would fix the problem, only to discover that it didn't and they regretted the ever making the decision in the first place, and then had to undergo even more surgical procedures to try and undo the changes. Doesn't this suggest that there's at least some psychological aspect to the matter that can't be addressed with any amount of physical procedures?

That's an unfortunate, occasional occurrence, which is treated in some media circles as far more likely than it actually is. However, it's a fair concern, and I've spoken to a few people who've detransitioned. Those I spoke to said that gender dysphoria was actually never their problem at all, that they made a mistake in thinking it was. Sometimes that happens; you want so badly to have found your solution that you ignore any feelings of doubt. Those are not cases of dysphoria treatment failing, they are cases of other problems being misdiagnosed, and so the treatments available weren't the right ones. It says nothing about their effectiveness in correctly diagnosed gender dysphoria.

I know that's only anecdotal evidence, but the existence of detransition hardly proves that medical transition doesn't help gender dysphoria. I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion; if someone still felt dysphoric after their treatments and still felt they weren't 'enough' their chosen gender, they generally don't think 'I should make my body look like my birth gender again and move even further away from what I need.' Dysphoria can come back on you, it doesn't 'go away', just like any mental illness. Some older trans people like to come to forums to warn the younger people what's to come; FtM men ten, twenty years on after transition still go through bad times when their dysphoria comes back and they get depressed about not being born men. It's rather common. But it doesn't mean they're necessarily going to decide the entire thing was a mistake and need to have the whole deal reversed. It doesn't mean the treatments are broken or that they can't help. It just means life isn't perfect and your mental problems are something you have to live with. Frankly, it's because of these treatments that the vast majority of trans people are even able to live with them.

Touchy subject: check
Author himself/herself/itself (or whatever applies) is transgender: check
Any comment containing the slightest statement not glorifying transgender people is downvoted to hell: check
"If you don't like me you're transphobic": check

Status: triggered

Here's a free downvote.

Please note that I had at least the decency to leave a comment before downvoting.
Have a good day.

8396052

So i just want to point a few things out in this one really quick but before I do I want to put some things forward for sake of clarity. I am a trans woman. I have PTSD and Depression.

Noted. I'll be gentle in my idiocy then.

So on to the points I want to clarify. First those who receive SRS, Sexual reassignment surgery, the regret rate is less than 3%. a number that is shockingly low and is possibly an error of data. (Which is to say that it is nearly insignifigant amount and as such hard to draw conclusions from outside of its rarity).

Fascinating.

Secondly I am speaking from expierence her but as a person who had depression, from the death of my mother, and PTSD for CSA (an acronym I shall not explain cause if you know what it is then you get it if you don't you don't really want to know).

Central sleep apnea?

My dysphoria about my body is such that when it rears its head it is more intense than any other issue I have ever had. More crushing than anything. I have panic attacks on a regular (ie daily) and I would rather have a panic attack than an episode of Dysphoria. I am under no illusions that the three issues don't feed off of each other but Dysphoria is by far the worst of my problems.

I think I'll just leave this part blank, because I honestly don't know what to say in response.

The only treatment that has any clinical data to show success at treating Dysphoria is going under gender transition. WHat that means is different for different people but Hormone replacement therapy or SRS is the only way that helps these people and does so with a sucess rate that is far above what is considered good. Most trans people who seek transition related care and recieve it become more healthy (mentally) than most cis people.

I don't mean to sound ignorant or otherwise dismissive of what others go through and experience for themselves. But I still have way more questions than I do answers on the matter, so I need to press on. SRS is regarded as the most successful treatment, but comparatively speaking, what about less invasive options like counseling, psychological therapy, and even medication? Do these have a legitimate degree of merit that make them a worthwhile consideration before contemplating involved surgical procedures to address the matter? How does the psychological approach that's appropriate for conditions like PTSD for soldiers returning from combat, compare and contrast in terms of effectiveness compared to the physical approach?

The reason this isn't considered a phsycological disorder is because a that brings stygma to the issue and b that the solution, the only solution we have right now is a physical one.

Does that mean it's not considered a disorder because help from a physician or other expert is actually sought, instead of trying to self-medicate the problem away?

I'm not going to read it, because it's not my kind of story, but I'm upvoting to counter the assholes that are downvoting it simply for it being a transgender story.

8396159
so you asked so it is in the spoiler: I was sexually abused as a small child and possibly raped and have no memory of the event past a certain point CSA stands for Childhood sexual abuse

Secondly I didn't mean to imply that SRS is the most sucessful treatment. I meant transition as a whole. Which means dressing as your gender, for example dressing as a woman because I am a woman even if I am trans. Hormone treatment is realtively uninvasive compared to surgery and is almost always the first medical solution to a transition. For many Trans people HRT is enough for them. (note enough doesn't mean perfect and I don't mean to speak for all trans people just my observations and what research there is on the subject). Counciling can help but most assuradely only Gender Affirming therapy is helpful. Any attempts to "cure" a person of being trans is abuse and generally speaking leads for people to have almost twice the likelihood of attempting suicide. Which is a huge increase when you realize that the average for trans people before transition is 41% compared to the average of 1.6% of the general population. which should be a sobering thing to see. Also post tranistion studies (which are few) show a lower than general population suicide rate in trans people after transition. Gender Affirming care works and works well to help Trans people live a healthy life.

As for how this compares to PTSD in treatment, I can't speak for treatment for vetrans and post combat PTSD sufferers but I can speak of what has worked for me and what hasn't. I have been in therapy for most of my life. I have seen over 30 therapists. I am 28 years of age. Nothing has worked on my PTSD. Not a single thing. Now part of that is that I have med resistent Depression which makes the PTSD aspect hard to deal with. I am working right now on a thing called EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing which has shown good results in studies but as I have only had one session I don't know the effectiveness. Sadly PTSD is probably more understudied than trans related issues. Which is saying a lot.

As for your last bit I think you are slightly confused by my wording. Sorry for that. What I meant is that transition is often an alignment of what is external to the trans person to what is eternal. AKA change the body and social stuff not the mind. You can't change the mind of a trans person and get a healthy person out of it. But you can change the body of a trans person and get a healthy person out of it. Also as transition care could be taken care of almost completly by and endocronologist, a hormone doctor, the whole thing is less psychological and more physical.

I want to state though that the processes of transition outline above does not work for every trans person. What any given trans person needs to feel comfortable and be healthy in their body is a very personal thing. I need SRS, and can't get it, but others may just need a social transition, or hormones only.

Also as I haven't explained it I figured I should since it might be confusing. A social transition is the process of dressing as ones gender, being called by their chosen name and people using the proper pronouns for the trans person. Every trans person needs this. We need to be accepted as we are by society because it otherwise brings up that disconnect even further hampering our mental health.

Also I don't want to indicate that therapy is not important to trans people. Most trans people have trauma from being treated as the wrong gender for a portion of their life. Many have comorbid issues such as depression or PTSD or other things that do need the help of a therapist to properly heal from. Also I would say that honestly as our society stands now every person in our country could probably use therapy. (not a reflection of current political stuff but one of culture) America has a very big issue with Mental health and we need to start adressing that and more importantly seeking help before it becomes the monster that consumes so many lives.

8396117

I know that about anorexia; I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Sorry about that, I'll be more careful.

Just pointing out that I know the two aren't really related, it's just the comparison I'm drawing for a compare and contrast to figure things out further.

That's not exactly true if we factor in the emotional changes and the deeper physical effects hormones can give us. Not to get too TMI, but there are certain bodily processes that testosterone has changed for me, and because of those changes I'm significantly more comfortable in my body. There's something that no longer happens that used to cast a shadow over my whole month, and something else that used to make me panicked and miserable that I'm now actually able to enjoy. Getting any clearer than that might turn you off, but I'm sure you take my meaning all the same. Medical transition does more than address presentation.

I'll admit, I'd kind of forgotten about that particular aspect of the matter. I sort of figured the responsible culprits in the matter were... removed from the equation in such a case.

What's more, addressing the matter of presentation is far from nothing. It can be deeply upsetting in the long term to feel as though some physical attribute prevents you from being yourself, or to constantly worry that someone else will notice that attribute and challenge who you are, or even become violent. Just for an example ... do you think most of us can go to the beach or a waterpark without constantly worrying? Depending on where they live, do you think some of us can risk undressing anywhere other than in complete private?

Post-op/transition, I really can't comment on that, but I could see how that could be a problem. But pre-op/transition, that's a little harder for me to wrap my head around and actually discuss accurately. But then again I'm over at the Nudists and Nudity group, and I'm afraid of actually taking my clothes off, so I'm probably not the best to ask.

I try my best to be invisible in life, blending into the background and being easily forgettable. The type of person that's so generic, the human mind simply doesn't register their presence because of the fact that they're generic. The sort of person you see every day without really seeing them, and forget about just as easily as one would a tree, mailbox, street sign, or any number of other uninteresting sights. Some people want fame and recognition, I'd rather have the shadows and be regarded as not existing.

I wouldn't dismiss the value of presentation or suggest that it can't really help.

Noted.

Speaking of that bit of speculation that these treatments aren't effective:

That's an unfortunate, occasional occurrence, which is treated in some media circles as far more likely than it actually is. However, it's a fair concern, and I've spoken to a few people who've detransitioned. Those I spoke to said that gender dysphoria was actually never their problem at all, that they made a mistake in thinking it was. Sometimes that happens; you want so badly to have found your solution that you ignore any feelings of doubt. Those are not cases of dysphoria treatment failing, they are cases of other problems being misdiagnosed, and so the treatments available weren't the right ones. It says nothing about their effectiveness in correctly diagnosed gender dysphoria.

I know that's only anecdotal evidence, but the existence of detransition hardly proves that medical transition doesn't help gender dysphoria. I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion; if someone still felt dysphoric after their treatments and still felt they weren't 'enough' their chosen gender, they generally don't think 'I should make my body look like my birth gender again and move even further away from what I need.' Dysphoria can come back on you, it doesn't 'go away', just like any mental illness. Some older trans people like to come to forums to warn the younger people what's to come; FtM men ten, twenty years on after transition still go through bad times when their dysphoria comes back and they get depressed about not being born men. It's rather common. But it doesn't mean they're necessarily going to decide the entire thing was a mistake and need to have the whole deal reversed. It doesn't mean the treatments are broken or that they can't help. It just means life isn't perfect and your mental problems are something you have to live with. Frankly, it's because of these treatments that the vast majority of trans people are even able to live with them.

I wasn't trying to suggest anything like that. Rather it's more of an... involved matter for me. It's a matter of politics, and what I've been witnessing playing out for a couple of decades. Stuff like the above, accounts of the surgery not working and people regretting undergoing the transitional process... I don't want to come off as a conspiracy nut, but hearing stuff like that makes me pause and wonder if the gender dysphoria issue has been hijacked by those more interested in bolstering their opinions and positions, than in the people who're going to be affected by their actions. I've seen political activists openly advising others to knowingly spread lies to pray upon the lack of understanding of the public to build greater support for their positions. Folks with no scruples and no soul, who will tell anyone that's confused whatever they want to hear, just to get them loyal to their position, regardless of the amount of harm it might cause them as a result. It's absolutely disgusting to me, and worse than that, it has the effect of cheapening the legitimacy of those with actual issues in need of being dealt with.

8396250

so you asked so it is in the spoiler: I was sexually abused as a small child and possibly raped and have no memory of the event past a certain point CSA stands for Childhood sexual abuse

This is what I get for limiting my acronym search to stuff related to medical...

Secondly I didn't mean to imply that SRS is the most sucessful treatment. I meant transition as a whole. Which means dressing as your gender, for example dressing as a woman because I am a woman even if I am trans. Hormone treatment is realtively uninvasive compared to surgery and is almost always the first medical solution to a transition. For many Trans people HRT is enough for them. (note enough doesn't mean perfect and I don't mean to speak for all trans people just my observations and what research there is on the subject). Counciling can help but most assuradely only Gender Affirming therapy is helpful. Any attempts to "cure" a person of being trans is abuse and generally speaking leads for people to have almost twice the likelihood of attempting suicide. Which is a huge increase when you realize that the average for trans people before transition is 41% compared to the average of 1.6% of the general population. which should be a sobering thing to see. Also post tranistion studies (which are few) show a lower than general population suicide rate in trans people after transition. Gender Affirming care works and works well to help Trans people live a healthy life.

I'm not sure there's an actual cure for anything going on in the world, just treatments and ways of dealing with matters as best possible.

As for how this compares to PTSD in treatment, I can't speak for treatment for vetrans and post combat PTSD sufferers but I can speak of what has worked for me and what hasn't. I have been in therapy for most of my life. I have seen over 30 therapists. I am 28 years of age. Nothing has worked on my PTSD. Not a single thing. Now part of that is that I have med resistent Depression which makes the PTSD aspect hard to deal with.

Holy shit. That's all I can really say.

I am working right now on a thing called EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing which has shown good results in studies but as I have only had one session I don't know the effectiveness. Sadly PTSD is probably more understudied than trans related issues. Which is saying a lot.

That it does. And best of luck with the new treatments.

As for your last bit I think you are slightly confused by my wording. Sorry for that. What I meant is that transition is often an alignment of what is external to the trans person to what is eternal. AKA change the body and social stuff not the mind. You can't change the mind of a trans person and get a healthy person out of it. But you can change the body of a trans person and get a healthy person out of it. Also as transition care could be taken care of almost completly by and endocronologist, a hormone doctor, the whole thing is less psychological and more physical.

I want to state though that the processes of transition outline above does not work for every trans person. What any given trans person needs to feel comfortable and be healthy in their body is a very personal thing. I need SRS, and can't get it, but others may just need a social transition, or hormones only.

Does anything help when SRS isn't an option?

Also as I haven't explained it I figured I should since it might be confusing. A social transition is the process of dressing as ones gender, being called by their chosen name and people using the proper pronouns for the trans person. Every trans person needs this. We need to be accepted as we are by society because it otherwise brings up that disconnect even further hampering our mental health.

I can see that being the case. Although what about the issue of those who subscribe to the whole gender neutral concept and introduce completely foreign pronouns into the equation, with each one more impossible to remember than the last? Is this people fucking with us, or is it a different aspect of gender dysphoria?

Also I don't want to indicate that therapy is not important to trans people. Most trans people have trauma from being treated as the wrong gender for a portion of their life. Many have comorbid issues such as depression or PTSD or other things that do need the help of a therapist to properly heal from. Also I would say that honestly as our society stands now every person in our country could probably use therapy. (not a reflection of current political stuff but one of culture) America has a very big issue with Mental health and we need to start adressing that and more importantly seeking help before it becomes the monster that consumes so many lives.

We've got to be the most messed up society in the world. Now I'm flashing back to Christopher Titus and his special Norman Rockwell is Bleeding. Dark humor but damn does he make a lot of sense.

8396367
Neo pronouns or as they are sometimes called tumblr pronouns, are in my expierence not people choosing them sole for messing with cis people, or really any binary person (binary in this case meaning identifies as exclusively man or woman). As for gender neutral pronouns specifically, They/them/their tree of pronouns is gramatically and historically a singlur and plural pronoun used to refer to someone or someones with gender neutral terms. This was changed in 1841ish by an english professor at a major college who was a bit of a bigot and found that native american people who we would now call two spirit were using the pronoun they in singular form. The asshat then went on to crusade against they as singular and mostly won. It isn't completely dead even now despite years and years of reinforcement of they as plural only. Some trans people are comfortably with they/them pronouns (for example they is my prefered pronoun though she works fine). There are those that find they to be a thing their brain rejects when in the singluar and have turned to Ze/zir/zirs or ze/zim/zirs or ze/hir/hirs (don't ask me on how that last set works like that in so far as the etomology of it). These pronouns are not new by any streatch of the imagination and are from around the same time as when They/them was forced into plural only. there are some trans people who use ze as they (used in plural) believe that they them is more of a both she and he pronoun and that Ze represents no gender or agender better. I am aware of how confusing all of this can be to those who are less initated in all of this. Hell many binary trans people mess these pronouns up so you aren't alone.

I want to adress though for a second that non-binary people have been around for as long as humans have. Every single culture on this planet has had a third gender at some point. European ones died out with the rise of Christianity and the fall (well really more decline) of the Roman empire. But every single other one has had at one point or still does recognize third (or more) genders. It is important to remember that the idea that sex is the same as gender is a false idea propigated by western christian ideology. ( don't mean this in a statement of christians are bad or anything but just a acknowledgement of history) Majority of scientists see gender and sex seperated (at least those whose jobs are related to such things) and further still science proves that sex isn't a binary either. while a small percetnage of the population intersex people exsist. which means a person with ambigous assortment of sexual characteristics. such as a natal female, aka a person with a vagina, who has xy chromozones or a wide variety of other conditions.

Non-binary genders are a bit off putting to most because how far that rabit hole goes. Enbies (the spelling of the abriviation of non-binary and a term I love) tend to not have the words that fit them and as such they make up words to fit their inner concept of their gender. They do not make up genders but make up words to describe their specific gender. I think it is at this point that really there are as many gender's as there are people but most feel comforable just going with man or woman, even when what woman is to Susan is probably radically different that what woman is to Katifa as it is so different to Sakura. So again Enbies are messing with you they are just using extremely specific words to describe something that in many ways they are experts on while most cis people barely even realize is there. Imagine Einstien trying to explain gravity to a lay man and you may come to an understanding of how this might feel for an enby. Also please note that lack of understanding doens't mean idiocy or stupidity. Ignorance is something that our culture has a very bad relationship with and really don't understand the meaning of. Surely there are things that you know that I can only imagine and vice versa. That doesn't make either of us less intellegent than the other. and further still intellegence is not a measure of a persons worth. everyone is worth the same as we are all human.

I want to take a moment to talk about intersex issues as far to frequently intersex people are brought up only as a point to be proven about sex without any acceptance of their issues. Many intersex people will have issues conciving though this is really the least of their problems. No the most pertentent problem facing intersex people is surgeries done on infants who have no say in the mater to fix something that isn't broken. Intersex babies often have genitalia that is ambigous or doesn't fit with what doctors consider normal. This can be a problem but is not something that really inhibits the child in anyway and when they are old enough to make such desicions for themselves the surgeries will work better often. This includes such things as a baby boy whose urethra did not go through his penis. instead it went out where would be typical in a female. The only problem this would cause is having to sit to pee. that is it. Instead of such a horrid thing (this is sarcasm) the doctor surgically linked and streched the kids urethra down his penis. this worked till the kid started getting erections and that tube doesn't really stretch and so each errection would tear the lining of his urethra making every single errection extremely painful. All so he could stand to pee. This is a practice that will happen often without parental consent and when given often by parents who do not understand that their child will have a normal life without such surgeries. We as a country and world must stand up to prevent intersex babies from being mutilated because they don't fit the standard look of genitles. (now that I have spent much more time than is probably considered koshier on this topic I am going to shut up about this now)

8396278
Heh, yeah, the 'culprits' are still in my possession. Not everyone needs that particular surgery to alleviate their dysphoria; what treatment options you pursue is a personal choice.

As to your final paragraph ... Oh, I'm with you there. Politicians hijacking the issues is an enormous problem. They don't give a shit about the people affected by their laws, they just care about getting votes for something they proposed and thus gaining political clout. Doesn't matter if some little segment of the population gets demonized and fucked over, not to some politicians. From left or right side, which I say as a bleeding heart Canadian liberal, that is some bullshit.

I've looked over this comment section, and if I may say, you've been an amazingly good listener to everyone here. That's really valuable.

I wanted to love this, I really did. Trans representation is too few and far between, and I always enjoy seeing stories like this blossom and shine. That said, it felt too stream-of-consciousness. That can be a bad thing, and especially when presented at the start of the story as in this case, it can drive readers away - I almost gave up on this story by the fourth paragraph because of it. Other than that, I'm looking forward to seeing where you take this in the future, and only hope that all the spite downvotes you're going to get solely for the subject matter don't discourage you or drive you away.

MJP

8394838
I don't care if it's their life I don't like trans stories being promoted by media in general because it's making it out to be something it's not


plus I hate it when trans people complain about how we shouldn't have gender specific pronouns, because some blueshift SJW idea of inclusiveness

8396421 Frankly, if someone is so mentally unstable that a PRONOUN causes them to go berserk, they're not worth my time OR understanding.

Let them spend a few days in the ghettos on 1940's Germany and then they'll see what REAL persecution looks and feels like.

I'm sick of weak-minded twits of all sorts blaming everyone else for their own insecurities and even MORE sick of the media and particular wings of politics turning it into some quasi-religious crusade.

8396803
So help me out here. Explain the situation to me What exactly is GD being presented as by the media, that it isn't actually?

8396421

Neo pronouns or as they are sometimes called tumblr pronouns, are in my expierence not people choosing them sole for messing with cis people, or really any binary person (binary in this case meaning identifies as exclusively man or woman). As for gender neutral pronouns specifically, They/them/their tree of pronouns is gramatically and historically a singlur and plural pronoun used to refer to someone or someones with gender neutral terms. This was changed in 1841ish by an english professor at a major college who was a bit of a bigot and found that native american people who we would now call two spirit were using the pronoun they in singular form. The asshat then went on to crusade against they as singular and mostly won. It isn't completely dead even now despite years and years of reinforcement of they as plural only. Some trans people are comfortably with they/them pronouns (for example they is my prefered pronoun though she works fine).

I can understand the conflict. For as long as I've been alive, them/they has always carried a plural meaning, and hearing it used in a singular meaning just... hurts from a grammatical standpoint. It's like hearing ebonics being spoken. And being raised by someone who prided themselves on proper grammatical structure, it can be quite shocking to experience. Back during the last administration I saw a twitter post from a black person calling for murder, saying specifically "It's time to start taken life's" just like that, and I flipped out at the grammatical equivalent of a highway collision/pileup.

There are those that find they to be a thing their brain rejects when in the singluar and have turned to Ze/zir/zirs or ze/zim/zirs or ze/hir/hirs (don't ask me on how that last set works like that in so far as the etomology of it).

Yeah. No clue on just how those work. Hearing and seeing them, it conjures the mental image of someone trying to reject the idea of binaries, but simply can't do it and instead just tries for a different emphasis on binary pronouns, and calls it good enough because now it sounds unique and cool.

These pronouns are not new by any streatch of the imagination and are from around the same time as when They/them was forced into plural only. there are some trans people who use ze as they (used in plural) believe that they them is more of a both she and he pronoun and that Ze represents no gender or agender better. I am aware of how confusing all of this can be to those who are less initated in all of this. Hell many binary trans people mess these pronouns up so you aren't alone.

I bet that goes over poorly with the more militant folks, when even those they consider "their people" can't get it right.

I want to adress though for a second that non-binary people have been around for as long as humans have. Every single culture on this planet has had a third gender at some point. European ones died out with the rise of Christianity and the fall (well really more decline) of the Roman empire. But every single other one has had at one point or still does recognize third (or more) genders. It is important to remember that the idea that sex is the same as gender is a false idea propigated by western christian ideology. ( don't mean this in a statement of christians are bad or anything but just a acknowledgement of history)

What about Japan where Christianity didn't reach? How does the third gender apply in Buddhism and Shintoism?

Majority of scientists see gender and sex seperated (at least those whose jobs are related to such things) and further still science proves that sex isn't a binary either. while a small percetnage of the population intersex people exsist. which means a person with ambigous assortment of sexual characteristics. such as a natal female, aka a person with a vagina, who has xy chromozones or a wide variety of other conditions.

Non-binary genders are a bit off putting to most because how far that rabit hole goes. Enbies (the spelling of the abriviation of non-binary and a term I love) tend to not have the words that fit them and as such they make up words to fit their inner concept of their gender. They do not make up genders but make up words to describe their specific gender. I think it is at this point that really there are as many gender's as there are people but most feel comforable just going with man or woman, even when what woman is to Susan is probably radically different that what woman is to Katifa as it is so different to Sakura. So again Enbies are messing with you they are just using extremely specific words to describe something that in many ways they are experts on while most cis people barely even realize is there. Imagine Einstien trying to explain gravity to a lay man and you may come to an understanding of how this might feel for an enby.

Yeah it's definitely confusing. Binaries is what I know, and have known for as long as I can remember.

But talking with others, I've come to the realization that when I try and think of how to explain myself in detail... I tend to identify as myself rather than another way. I'm not saying I reject gender or sex or anything, I just don't think about it when trying to define myself. I don't know where that puts me in all this. It's basically a question of are we who we are, or are we what we are?

Also please note that lack of understanding doens't mean idiocy or stupidity. Ignorance is something that our culture has a very bad relationship with and really don't understand the meaning of. Surely there are things that you know that I can only imagine and vice versa. That doesn't make either of us less intellegent than the other. and further still intellegence is not a measure of a persons worth. everyone is worth the same as we are all human.

Well when I said that I was trying more for a laugh. Life needs silliness to be worthwhile.

I want to take a moment to talk about intersex issues as far to frequently intersex people are brought up only as a point to be proven about sex without any acceptance of their issues. Many intersex people will have issues conciving though this is really the least of their problems. No the most pertentent problem facing intersex people is surgeries done on infants who have no say in the mater to fix something that isn't broken. Intersex babies often have genitalia that is ambigous or doesn't fit with what doctors consider normal. This can be a problem but is not something that really inhibits the child in anyway and when they are old enough to make such desicions for themselves the surgeries will work better often. This includes such things as a baby boy whose urethra did not go through his penis. instead it went out where would be typical in a female. The only problem this would cause is having to sit to pee. that is it. Instead of such a horrid thing (this is sarcasm) the doctor surgically linked and streched the kids urethra down his penis. this worked till the kid started getting erections and that tube doesn't really stretch and so each errection would tear the lining of his urethra making every single errection extremely painful. All so he could stand to pee. This is a practice that will happen often without parental consent and when given often by parents who do not understand that their child will have a normal life without such surgeries. We as a country and world must stand up to prevent intersex babies from being mutilated because they don't fit the standard look of genitles. (now that I have spent much more time than is probably considered koshier on this topic I am going to shut up about this now)

You hit the nail on the head of why I'd rather talk to people than medical/psychological "experts" on these topics. I know they have the learning and everything, they go to specialized schools to learn things that people like you and I would never know, but they largely only know stuff that's standard or narrow in perspective. Not everyone fits the established pattern, so it's very hard to figure out what to do in those circumstances. Non-standard genitals might be normal to some, but it's hard to say the same thing about a cleft lip/pallet. When is something a deformity, and when is it not?

8396476

Heh, yeah, the 'culprits' are still in my possession. Not everyone needs that particular surgery to alleviate their dysphoria; what treatment options you pursue is a personal choice.

I certainly didn't expect that.

As to your final paragraph ... Oh, I'm with you there. Politicians hijacking the issues is an enormous problem. They don't give a shit about the people affected by their laws, they just care about getting votes for something they proposed and thus gaining political clout. Doesn't matter if some little segment of the population gets demonized and fucked over, not to some politicians. From left or right side, which I say as a bleeding heart Canadian liberal, that is some bullshit.

It's these predatory behaviors that leave me wondering about the legitimacy of everything going on. Knowing what I do about the actions of politicians, dogmatic party loyalties, and individuals regretting undergoing SRS, it makes me wonder if people who're trying to figure out where they are in the world are being sold a bill of goods that they don't need, that doesn't apply to them, and having the wool pulled over their eyes like those being indoctrinated into a cult. Have we got folks mistakenly identifying as being transgender when they aren't, because they got conned by a slick talking snake oil peddler of a bureaucrat who told them something they wanted to hear?

I'm not saying that something like that is happening, but it's a legitimate question to be asking when we know that truth and politics are two entirely different subjects. And if something like that is going on, how does that affect the landscape we currently find ourselves in?

I've looked over this comment section, and if I may say, you've been an amazingly good listener to everyone here. That's really valuable.

I do my best to listen, and try not to discount anything. I've been discounted enough times simply because I don't buy into a narrow spectrum of what's expected. If I don't understand something, I do what I can to learn more about it for having an informed opinion. But even then, it's just my opinion based on what I know, or more accurately what I think I know.

I might not always support what people say, or what they believe, but I do my best to be respectful to them. I'll sit down and listen to what they have to say, I'll discuss it at length and ask them questions about what they believe and why they believe it. Sometimes something will be uncovered that wasn't expected by anyone. It's always fascinating to try and figure out what makes others tick, and how their experiences relate to your own.

I have far more respect for those that can articulate their positions, than I do for those who believe their position should already be known, and acting like they've been offended by being asked for elaboration. I'm not saying that it necessarily is, but to me that sort of hostility is suggestive of them not knowing what their own position is, like they're a paid shill told to promote talking points, and then panicking when someone asks something that wasn't on the notes they were told to peddle, all while being unable to admit to such.

But then again I'm different from most. I'm willing to admit and accept that fact that I might be wrong about either my position, or about what I know. I'd like to think I'm right about stuff, but I'll admit when I'm not.

hey its a good chapter but i found a spelling error it is

Although i still nice to have somepony to help me bear the burden. It was like being thrown into Tartarus to deal with it alone. I had no one to-

when it should be

Although it's still nice to have somepony to help me bear the burden. It was like being thrown into Tartarus to deal with it alone. I had no one to-

Login or register to comment