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Well, there goes any fleeting hope I had of getting the recommended amount of sleep tonight.
Hot damn thsi was a good chapter, that bit near the end had me shivering in excitement heeheehee!
Good work on this once more my friends, it is going awesomely!
hahaha!
Shit is about to hit the fan... in the form of darkness and fire
And no one, and nopony can stop it.
Wonderful chapter!
Okay, Fancy gets to be a special kind of awesome. I am putting him up there with the Big Guy from Cultural Artifacts and Navarone from Diaries of a Madman. Blueblood gets to join him self from the first on the emotional side of things, but himself from Liberare Elementalis for owning up and deciding to do something about it. Now, who is next? Because Catseye hasn't dug herself completely under yet with the number of enemies she has now.
Wait, so what happened? Did the Princesses make themselves weaker in political power (which I'm totally okay with) or actually quitting right now?
Another thing which could be used to be a contradiction: Wasn't Discord the one who turned Prince Blueblood into stone and all Celestia really did was "supposed" to be cutting him off from his money? Is that what happened in one of the rewrites?
6442909
No comment on Discord, but the Princesses are basically preparing for their own deaths. In the event they fall in combat, Equestria needs a stable government. Hence why the previous PM's resignation could not have come at a worse time, and why they looked to Fancy to find a legal and democratic way to avoid suspending Parliament and calling for elections right when the nation needs no distractions from persecuting the war. Thus they're both laying the groundwork for a stable political situation and shifting some of the responsibility for government off of themselves so that they can personally prepare for war.
Which is not to say they've removed themselves completely. Luna is still in charge of the Catseye investigation for instance, and she and Celestia are still Heads of State and retain the power to veto the actions of any government formed in their name.
This is basically a temporary arrangement to suit the situation. As for what happens post war, well that depends on what comes about in its resolution...
6442909
That is a very good point. I must have overlooked it amidst the morass of this chapter's size, but now you say so, I notice the narrative does focus more on Celestia's uncharacteristic meltdown in front of Blueblood than how it was Discord's idea to turn him into stone.
This chapter did something I didn't think was possible. It made me feel for Blueblood. PRINCE BLUEBLOOD. Mister Highfalutin, stuck up, perfect exemplar of pompous, arrogant grandiosity. And it did that by simply pointing out people aren't BORN that way, but MADE, and that the influence of their environment is what makes them awful. And without proper counterbalance, no matter how much you may personally and inwardly despise what you do or who you're forced to be around, there is often little you can do. Little CHOICE but to become...well, the people who raised you. Not all the time and not even completely, but far too often, it's definitely true. Bastard fathers are made so by their own bastard fathers and all that.
Now it doesn't mean I would have completely forgiven him either, Celestia gets that. At a certain point you do need to take ownership. But it's still an important lesson. And this was a well-done "downtime" chapter.
I do, however, think people tend to be too harsh on the Princesses and Equestria. Not merely because of the whole "if you don't let this slide, you've got no plot" thing. Because, for example, them not knowing about the Griffon Kingdom is something you let slide for the same reason you let the Death Star having big exhaust entrances slide: if you don't, there's no reasonable excuse for a solution to occur, no lesson will be learned, no victory accomplished. And also because in-universe, it makes some degree of sense.
A lot of people say "How dumb are these ponies, they've got friggin spears. SPEARS? Nothing more advanced"? But they haven't had a need to, because things like the spears, like the Wonderbolts and like magic, with the Elements and the Princesses, have been able to work just fine. "If it isn't broke, don't fix it". So of course their advances in, say, medicine or transportation are more advanced, they're not a warlike society so their fighting tech is far behind domestic tech. You need to take context in.
But they need to change NOW, now that a very real, much more advanced enemy has come. That's fine. But I always felt it was unfair to complain about their anachronistic nature.
And of course, Trotsky. How can you not love horse puns on famous people's names? Lemme guess, he's got a rival named Josef STALLION who really wants him dead and is super paranoid. XD
6443306
A point I'd like to raise is the fact that, well, what would the ponies think when a trained assassin that conspicuously looks like a travelling, disgraced magician is wreaking havoc in their doorstep?
Continuing from that mention of Trotsky there, I feel as if we should have added a mention of a working class city run by cows, if you get what I'm saying.
6442968
Well, at least I have a simple solution for that contradiction and it just needs a couple of lines:
"Are you sure? All I did was cut him off from his finances. You're the one that turned him into stone." Celestia stated .
"Ah, but you agreed to it," Discord leaned closer to the princess, "and you did nothing to rectify it."
Celestia tried to reply but stopped as she considered Discord's words.
^ Or something like that. Basically you can mentioned it somewhere in here in this conversation. If other things are being rewritten, although. But I hope another thing comes from this since it's supposed to be after Celestia feels better from the war thing so it's odd to see her be so angry again. Maybe she only felt better about the war but not everything else, is that what Discord was trying to get from her?
6442943
Thanks for reassuring me about that, I was beginning to feel worried about her and Luna quitting far too soon, especially since Celestia discuss this with my character in my own story about what it's like to change the world and how other people feel about such a big change.
Somepony's parents really hated him.
Pray for whatever god you believe Catseye, because the closest thing ponies have as one has decided that she will look to another way while humanity gets payback... and taking into account what your other self did, I don't think it will be pretty.
‘Princess Abducts Foals: Claims It’s For The Greater Good’
A second chapter without addressing Blue Spy? Do you have some sort of fetish for hanging stories from cliffs?
Also, Pina is terrifying. In case you didn't know.
The praise for Fancy Pants gets layered on real thick here. I mean, I like the guy and all--but seriously. Internationally renowned blademaster, shares archaeological awesomeness with the likes of Daring Do, dated royalty, attended a school for talent magicians, planned out the perfect change to make to the government to bring the major factions together, managed to accomplish more in politics and trade over a mere mortal lifetime than five centuries of rule... and was even given the knowledge of the Scribe.
How is that even possible? It was stated that neither Celestia, Luna, nor Discord were capable to revealing the location of the Scribe's location.
You know, I never understood this. Sex feels amazing and is a great physical (and mental) release, but it isn't a need as it's so often depicted.
It's... strange, for the sudden turn-around on Blueblood. I can see recanting on his punishment, but this was more like a complete rewrite of his character that came out of nowhere.
Speaking of which... have we even seen Twilight and Celestia in the same room since that memory swap spell? There's been sort of a complete disconnect between them--even if they weren't doing other close things together (like having conversations), I'd figure Twilight would get some more advanced magic lessons from her.
Also... what happened to this world's Sunset Shimmer?
6447340
Yeah Sunset... might not be right to fit in with the canon of this story.
But then again, she's behind the mirror in another world.
That's a good point.
6447340
Yes.
As an asexual, I now regret overlooking that particular line.
Oh, don't worry about that. While making Blueblood proficient in navigation and engineering helps establish that he isn't completely useless, he's still got a few character-building surprises ahead of him...
6447486 what does asexual even mean? someone lay it down plainly for the simpleton that is I.
6447719
That varies. Originally, it referred to "asexual reproduction", which is how micro-organisms can multiply without intercourse. But over the last century or so, the word has also become a label for people who don't experience sexual attraction or arousal (i.e. never get the hots for anyone). It ain't the same as celibacy, where people choose not to act on their feelings. In this case, the feeling simply isn't there to begin with.
6447799 ah.
6447812
Yep, which means that if anyone tried insulting me by implying I'm not getting any, it wouldn't faze me. Just sayin'!
MFW
Reaction from 3:33 to 3:46
6450028 Unfortunately, heh, no.
I had (surprisingly) never read Project Horizons before - Vox pointed out the same name.
6447340
On the sex part, when speaking on terms of thousands of years of celibacy without being asexual already, yes it is a necessity.
6446563
Alright, enough. I have never understood why so many people are quick to treat Catseye's little group as inherently blinkered and hateful for protesting the way the wind's blowing in their Equestria. Let's break down the Loyalist perspective here.
- They are a small, rag-tag group facing a larger, more powerful opponent.
- Said opponent has repeatedly shown they consider violence an acceptable solution.
- Equestria is, generally speaking, a peaceful country, where most threats come either from the outside, or in the shape of honest-to-God monsters.
- The country's long-standing and beloved ruler of light disappeared under strange circumstances for a few months, replaced by a sibling who, aside from a taste for dark-themed fashion accessories, once nearly doomed the world to eternal night.
- On top of that, many of the foreign species Equestria is now allying itself with have unquestionably displayed hostile behaviour in the past.
- To counter this perceived threat, the small, rag-tag group has received aid from a mysterious benefactor (whom we as readers know is from another dimension).
- Athough the opponent insists they are the victims, for a long time, the only proof they had of this was an emotionally manipulative light show put on by a trickster god.
- Catseye wasn't a popular kid in school, whereas her chief rival, whom she still resents to this day, was wealthy and sexually promiscuous.
Nobody thinks they are the villain, which is a fact I've always sought to keep in mind. Take away Weaver being a participant of a genocide whose instigators did attack humanity first, and it'd be ridiculously easy to recast the Loyalists as underdog heroes.
Hence I'm saving my energies for taking the fight to the Solar Empire.
6456514 .... spoilers much Vox?
6456514
Maybe I didn't express myself right, what I wanted to say was that, despite their "good" intentions, Catseye and her cronies are searching a fight against an enemy who, in your own words has repeatedly shown they consider violence an acceptable solution, and sincerely, if they know that and still want to fight them, including the kidnapping and possibly attemped murder of one of their key members, then they can't complain if humanity goes for the kill, and that's without taking into account the fact that Trixie could be a little... let's say overprotective of Bauer.
Apart from that, I think the narrative was implying that there were going to be on the receiving end of a beatdown.
6456891
Searching a fight? Over the last two months, Catseye's group hasn't planted bombs, cut off supply lines or done much of anything a real insurgency would do. In fact, Bauer's kidnapping was something done by overzealous members working outside of Catseye's knowledge, when she actually ended the meeting back in First Month by expressing dismay at the idea of going so far as to kill humans or sympathizing ponies.
Besides, isn't it circular logic to say they can't complain if humans go for the kill when they knew this could well happen? You're still approaching this from the angle that you know the Loyalists are antagonists who'll lose, something they've no way of knowing. In my hypothetical story where it's the Loyalists who are the plucky rebels, them going up against a stronger enemy would be treated as a brave thing.
6457013
6456891 Enough!
6457013
Mmmm, I think I have to reread those chapter from the beginning, maybe I'm confunding details...
6457249
Sorry, got carried away...
Licking my licks in hopes of righteous smackdown in next chapter. Please don't disappoint.
Nitpicks:
"discreet" is what I think you mean; "discrete", while a word that technically could fit here, makes a lot less sense to me.
holiest of holies
or
holy of holies
to.
abhor
discreet
cunningly
troth
I have the inescapable wish to see someone actually unleash the Hounds of Tindalos on Weaver, just so there is something she can't just get around by disappearing, cause once the hounds have your scent there is nowhere in this universe or the next which will be safe from them...
Ho-Lee-S***! This chapter's ending had me shivering with anticipation and excitement. Celestia and Luna finally deciding that "Enough is Enough," and that they will no longer tolerate such arrogance, racism, and xenophobia within their borders. Coupled with them resolving to teach the ponies of Equestria that they are not untouchable and the princesses won't always be there to protect them; Catseye and her followers are about to learn first-hand a valuable lesson that the pony race forgot when the Alicorns took the throne: they aren't always in the right and are certainly not above reproach. That was just awesometacular! Cathartic even!
The dawn of a new era has come.
I can f***ing wait to see where it leads!
...
...
...
The Goddesses of the Sun and Moon are VERY pissed...
6491220 I almost pity them... Almost.
6504546
6491220
The more I think about it, the more I feel sorry for Catseye and Co.
With foreknowledge of what personal disaster might befall either of them, I'm beginning to think that the universe really doesn't like them.
Such is life.
6505173
Catseye seems to be projecting her own self hatred and it seems Celestia will be using her and her group as sacrificial lambs to drive home a life lesson that ponies aren't always in the right, and messing with the wrong person will bring consequences.
I agree there is some tragedy. But I think the biggest tragedy is that they will die while believing they are right.
6505938
So what you're saying, basically, is that the way to prove the ponies deriding humans as vicious killers are in the wrong, would be to let them get viciously killed by humans.
Now it all makes sense to me. Happily, that isn't what'll actually happen next.
6508524
They are villains... so unfortunately some people have sadist enjoyment in seeing them get killed.
Nobody really bats an eye on seeing a newfoal (At least an Anti TCBer and most fans of this story) getting killed. Nor a Nazi from World War 2, unfortunately it seems many of the readers of the story brand the Loyalist Conspiracy as the Nazis, so therefore seeing them getting killed fills them with joy on seeing such 'evil people' paying the price.
Also TCB has made killing TCB ponies and those allied with them 'cool'. Ever noticed stories where TCB Ponies get their asses kicked tend to get many upvotes?
The fact the ponies are commonly referred to as 'TCB Ponies'. The common meaning Nazi Imperialists that want to destroy humanity by enslaving their minds and making them become ponies? (Not in all TCB stories, but many)
When many read a (non TCB story) dark story about (in character) dying or getting killed many feel upset. But when let's say a TCB version of that character get killed. Many don't feel sad or anything for their fate, for as far as they are concerned they had deserved what they got for the suffering they inflicted on humanity.
6509295
The "Nazis" argument doesn't hold up. For one thing, what, exactly, have the Loyalists done which puts them anywhere on a level with the Solar Empire? Over the course of two months, nothing other than gossip about how bad humans are. And now, a splinter faction has gone against Catseye's instructions not to attack humans by kidnapping a lone soldier, a situation, by the way, that could easily have been resolved with minimal fuss if Weaver (an Imperial) hadn't stepped in and raised the stakes.
I look forward to turning the tide back against the Empire, because that's how a good story of this sort works; the heroes rise up to defeat a powerful foe. But that isn't what I'm seeing with the Loyalists. What I see here is people clamouring for a vengeful fantasy to be unleashed upon dissenters who are largely more misguided than "evil", and have little chance of defending themselves in a straight fight.
And this just veers so dangerously close to victim-blaming, I can't stand back and say nothing.
6509342
Well yeah, the Loyalists have done thing nowhere near as 'evil' (if there is such a thing) as the Solar Empire.
Unfortunately, once again it seems the readers are branding them with the same brush as Empire.
Exactly. They are more or less an insignificant threat to humanity. Their numbers are very small and don't have much support from canon Equestria, so the better the humans handle the situation without the whole capturing them, followed by slowly torturing them to death and killing them for daring to side with the Empire, the more insignificant they shall become.
So if humanity treats them not so harshly, humanity may even get even more support from canon Equestria.
6508524
No. I'm saying is that nothing they do will sway Catseye. She will consider them monsters no matter what they do, or say, which is why Celestia isn't trying to prove anything to her. She using Catseyes group as sacrificial lambs to drive home a lesson to her other ponies 'That she won't always protect them from the consequences of their actions.'
In a way she is saying that the humans, as they are, are 'monsters'. But they are monsters that ponies like Catseye created.
6509386
Yes.
6509389
Again, Catseye has done hardly anything more than some agitprop. However, based on this comment, I see no further reason to pursue a discussion. Evidently, no matter what I do, or say, you will consider one side to be completely in the right, and possessing the right to enact whatever retribution they desire, because naturally, everything they commit is ultimately the other side's fault alone.
Wishing you a good weekend,
~Vox
6509413 Right back at you. But feel free to keep telling people their positions before they tell you what they are. See how far you get.
6509446
No misconstruction there. Unless you believe it possible no Loyalist will change their mind after a lifetime, the only way to read "die" is to infer they will die in the near future, likely at human hands.
Cheers,
~VoxAdam
6509458 Yes, the biggest tragedy is that they will probably die believing their ignorant bigotry is justified. Just like it's a tragedy when every brainwashed pony from the other Equestria dies. Expect these ponies aren't brainwashed which is where the 'Almost' comes in. I see the tragedy but I won't feel as sorry for them as the others. If you see anything vindictive in that its because you are projecting that tone onto it as you read it.
I will ask you this, is there anything that could be done to convince Catseye and her group that they are wrong, or would they just skew it as more 'proof' that they are justified?
and what's with sighing your name under your comment? How arrogant are you?
6509479
Ah, my excuses if that was misunderstood, I don't always sign my comments, and usually not twice in a row. When I do, it's generally following a long comment, or to indicate that I'm closing up the conversation, which I'd like to do quite soon, if you don't mind. I am apologetic, should this have genuinely come off wrong.
Please don't think I'm unaware of who the bad guys are in this story.
But in a situation such as this, which bears little similarity to how persecution works in the real world, where those who fall victim to it are rarely the people with better weapons, stronger forces and national support, I feel it's more than a little backward, if not perverse, to treat their critics as a threat who need to be disposed of.
6509574
I just read back over some of the older comments and it seems that Locksmiths group and Cat’s eyes group aren’t the same. I was under the impression they were.
I can agree. But the humans motivation for stomping them is understandable in the same way Catseye is.
The in story humans have been fighting world ending, genocide inducing Xenophobia from ponies for how many years? They haven’t encountered a ‘sugar free’ or ‘diet’ version so it seems more then reasonable to expect them to act as they have been conditioned to act when encountering what seems like (the beginnings of) the same thing. And when most of the other E’s ponies had to be Mind raped by a McGuffin bag of evil to embrace that Xenophobia, having some of the ‘pure ponies’ seemingly embrace that same xenophobia on their own, made me think ‘Oh here we go. KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL NOW BEFORE THEY CAN BECOME A PROBLEM TO THE CHARECTERS I HAVE SPENT HUNDREDS OF THOUSENDS OF WORDS GROWING TO GIVE A DAM ABOUT” as a first reaction.
Thinking they and Locksmiths group were one and the same only fueled that thought.
How sympathetic Catseye and her group will be in my eyes will ultimately come down to how open they are to reason. If the tragedy turns out to be that reason would have swayed them if only it had been attempted, then yes it would be tragic. But if its turns out they would have automatically just dismissed all evidence that went against their bigotry then I’m less inclined to feel sorry for them because, weather consciously or not, all they are doing in the end is helping Xenolestia's plan to mind rape and assimilate all sapient life.
6509777
That, I can respect.