Fear and anger
The sound of Sunset Shimmer's own heavy breathing filled her ears; The Day Court of Equestria stared at her in silence.
Several guards gripped their weapons uneasily, their gaze shifting between the fiery unicorn mare, whose angry outburst still rang in their ears, and their alicorn princess, who had been the target of Sunset's verbal assault.
Princess Celestia sat motionless, her expression of polite annoyance subtle enough that other ponies might have missed it. She let the silence drag on, long enough for Sunset to admit to herself that this might have been a bad idea. Still, Sunset was angry, dammit, and she wasn't about to back down until the princess had given her some form of explanation.
When it became clear that Sunset was fully prepared to stare down her former mentor for as long as it would take, Princess Celestia stood, and made a sweeping motion with her wing.
“My dear little ponies, I am sorry, but it seems I will have to end this session early today. There is an important matter I must discuss with Miss Shimmer.”
And when the courtiers had left the room, Princess Celestia had gestured for even the royal guards to leave them, and Sunset found herself, for the first time in many years, alone with the most powerful pony in Equestria. Politically speaking, at least.
Sunset waited. Eventually, the princess spoke.
“You've been to the hospital, I take it?”
“Yes,” Sunset sneered. “She's doing fine, by the way. The doctors say she'll be out in a few days. But I was surprised to learn you hadn't been to visit your prized pupil, considering it was basically you who put her there.”
“Former pupil,” the princess corrected softly, with only a touch of sternness to her tone, to which Sunset narrowed her eyes, “and I'm afraid I've been busy with affairs of state. But rest assured, I have kept informed of her condition.”
Sunset snorted derisively, then frowned at how… horsey the sound had come out.
“As for my part in what happened,” the princess continued, “it was Twilight's decision, and she was fully aware of the risks.”
“Oh, please,” moaned Sunset, “that filly would jump into a volcano if you asked her to, and you know it.”
The princess frowned. “I think you may be giving her too little credit, Sunset.”
“Maybe,“ replied Sunset, “but I'm not the one sending her — or encouraging her to go — on dangerous missions. You could have gone yourself, or gone with her, but instead you sat just here, on your… throne, while Twilight risked her neck for you, again!
“You keep putting her in danger, and I'm not leaving until you explain why!” Sunset's hoof tapped against the marble floor.
Princess Celestia tilted her head, her expression a mixture of sadness and amusement. Sunset ground her teeth together, and continued to glare.
“You really do care for her a great deal, don't you?” asked the princess, softly.
Sunset flinched. “Y-yeah, well… Don't change the subject!”
Princess Celestia nodded, and turned to one side, apparently sinking into thought. “Yes…” she muttered, “you are entitled to an answer. Twilight, too, though she has never asked.” She turned her head back to Sunset, tilting it to one side. “You are really not like her at all.”
Sunset fumed. Though she couldn't say why, exactly, those words did not feel at all complimentary. If anything, it felt like an accusation.
Princess Celestia turned away again, headed towards one of the stain-glassed windows, where The Princess of Friendship was depicted in sparkling shards. The coloured sunlight tinted the princess's face, her bearing as royal and as haughty as ever Sunset could remember. “She reminds me of Starswirl, more than anypony I can recall meeting since him. He was intelligent, yet in many ways simple. Wise, and yet so innocent.”
Sunset ground her teeth and stared at the floor, waiting for her former mentor to get to some kind of point.
“But you, Sunset… you aren't like either of them.” Before Sunset would have burst out with some snide comment, Princess Celestia continued. “In so many ways you remind me far more of myself.”
Sunset blinked, and her head jerked up at this apparent praise. To hear Princess Celestia speak such words left her… stunned.
But Princess Celestia's expression was not the smile of a teacher praising her student. It looked as though she had been forced to swallow something horribly bitter. “I honestly think taking you on as my personal student may have been a mistake.”
Sunset was shaking, speechless at this apparent attack.
“Sunset… please tell me honestly, do you trust me?”
“Of course!” Sunset's answer was almost a reflex.
“Why?”
Sunset let out a short laugh. “Why!? You're Princess Celestia, The Good, The Wise. How could I not trust you?”
Princess Celestia shut her eyes, and turned away, sighing. “The Good,” she echoed, her voice a murmur, “The Wise.
“Never 'The Good and Wise'. It's an archaic construct, from another age.”
Silence fell between them, only distance sounds of far-away rooms, and the wind outside, filled the seconds as Sunset replayed the conversation in her head, trying to figure out if there was a common thread to the seemingly disjointed statements.
She was still attempting to figure it out, when the princess added more words to the mix. “Sometimes wise words come from terrible minds. It was King Sombra who told me, to understand a pony, even yourself, you must only know what it is they fear the most.
“You needn't tell me, Sunset, but I want to consider: What is it that you fear the most?”
Sunset barely had to think. “Myself,” she answered aloud. “What I am capable of. The hurt I might one day cause.”
Princess Celestia nodded, and smiled melancholically. “So much of myself…” she murmured. “I am sorry, Sunset, but you are entitled to the truth, and I believe you need more than words.”
Magic crackled around the princess's horn. A glowing yellow orb, with a black core, floated down from the tip into the air between them. “Will you permit me?” Celestia asked.
Not fully understanding, Sunset nodded, still fully trusting the princess. The orb drifted across to Sunset's head, touching the base of her horn and…
…
Heat.
Burning.
Blinding.
Light.
Sunset stood (or sat?) in front of it. There was nothing that exactly described the feeling. Shoving her face into an open furnace, perhaps. Or staring at the sun, but the sun was not a tiny point of light but an all-encompassing wall that filled her vision filled her nostrils filled her ears and. And. She couldn't look away, couldn't move. She wanted to run, to scream and put her own eyes out but she couldn't move, even her eyelids even her eyes. If she moved she would die. It was there. The thing. The creature. The demon. About the size of a pony, if a pony could somehow be larger than a planet but still pony-sized, and she couldn't even look away. She thought perhaps the skin had already burned from her body, every inch of her was on fire. In fire. Full of fire, and light. Terrible, terrible, blinding hard merciless light crushing her from the inside out…
It moved. It was turning. Pleasepleaseoh please anyone, anything, take my body take my soul just please oh please don't. Let. It. See. Me.
Eyes. Redder than blood, deeper than death, older than pain and hotter than rage. They looked. They saw. She couldn't move. She couldn't look away. They looked. Into her. They looked into her through her eyes and it saw her.
A scream.
Black.
…
Cold.
Hard.
Marble. The floor.
Sunset was lying on the cold stone marble floor. Her limbs were spread out, her face and body pressed against the hard surface. She was gasping for air. Her eyes were screwed shut and she didn't dare open them. Her body was drenched in a cold sweat. She hugged the floor, clinging desperately to the sweet, beautiful cold. Her face felt especially wet, and her throat felt raw.
I'm alright, she told herself. I'm alive. I'm not hurt. I'm safe. I'm with the princess. I'm alright.
Slowly, oh so slowly, she began to steady herself. She opened her eyes. She was, indeed, still in Princess Celestia's throne room. It seemed darker, somehow. Had somepony dimmed the lights, and drawn the curtains, or was it just the contrast with what she had just experienced? Maybe it was evening already; Her memories of this room felt like mere seconds ago, but only if seconds could somehow span decades and still be seconds.
She tried to lift herself. Her limbs shook, her body so weak. Something floated in front of her — a goblet.
“Drink.”
The voice was soft, and warm, and Sunset was thirsty. She reached her lips to the goblet, and it tilted for her. Cool water met her lips. She sipped; She realised how dry her mouth was. She raised a hoof and pulled the goblet down, gulping down water like… like it was the most delicious thing she had ever tasted. In that moment she could believe it was. A little too fast, and she began to cough.
“Easy.” The voice gently chided.
Sunset raised herself to her haunches, and looked around, taking the goblet with her own magic and continuing to sip on what little remained. The curtains had indeed been pulled together. Princess Celestia sat in one corner of the room, reading a book.
Sunset frowned. That was Princess Celestia, right? Something about her felt off. Sunset couldn't put her finger (or hoof) on why, but something about that figure, so much like the princess in every way, sat in shadows, felt…
Hot. Like a smouldering coal.
Sunset continued to stare, cautiously stepping forward to get a better view, her legs tremouring with each step. The princess closed her book, and raised her head. She turned her head to face Sunset and it was turning it would see her it had seen her.
Sunset stumbled back, slamming her eyes shut, flinching away from that terrible stare. The goblet slipped from her grasp, only to be caught before it hit the floor. Her heart once again hammered in her throat and she fell back to a sitting position, unable to remain standing.
Nothing happened, and continued to happen until Sunset's calmness slowly struggled back into control.
She forced her eyes open. She forced her head to turn back, back to the corner, back to whatever she had seen.
Princess Celestia set in the corner, staring at the empty floor half-way between them. She was waiting.
Something about the princess still felt wrong to Sunset, but every detail was correct. Maybe it was just her own nerves. “Princess?” she ventured, “What… what was that?”
The princess raised her eyes to meet Sunset's, and Sunset forced herself to not look away. This eyes were pink, not red. Kind, not burning. She was safe. She just had to keep telling herself that.
“I am sorry, Sunset,” said the princess. “I needed you to understand, what it is that I fear the most. Words alone could not make you understand, could not pierce through what you needed to unlearn.”
“So, it… it was just an illusion?”
The princess hesitated. “That,” she eventually affirmed, “was an illusion, of sorts.”
“You… you showed me a monster? One you're scared of? One we might have to fight one day?” Sunset realised she was pleading, almost begging the princess not to tell her the truth, to tell her that what she had just seen wasn't real at all.
“Yes, Sunset. A monster. One I fight almost every day. One I hope you will never have to. A monster named 'Princess Celestia, The Good, The Wise.'”
Sunset shook her head wordlessly, and the princess wandered across the room, to one of the windows. “Sunset,” she asked, “do you think the ponies of Equestria love me?”
The words “Of course.” rose to Sunset's lips, with an eager smile looking for an easy answer. Something else in her overtook them, though — an unexplained certainty that somehow, this would be exactly the wrong thing to say. Instead, she settled for: “Yes?”
“How?”
“Um, what?”
“How do they love somepony they have never met, and know almost nothing about? How much do you think the average pony knows of politics, or history, or me? What they feel isn't love, it's just…” she waved her hoof uncertainly, “training. Since they were born, every adult — parents, teachers, scholars — has told of them of 'The Good, The Wise, Princess Celestia'. They repeat it without even thinking, believe it without ever questioning, trust me…” the princess shuddered, “without ever asking me to earn it.”
“But… you have earned it.” Sunset ventured meekly.
“Have I? Do you know how many wars Equestria has been in during my reign? How many rebellions quashed, how many revolutionaries — " her words faltered — “executed. By my command.”
“You… you had to, though…” Sunset felt dampness in her eyes as she recoiled from Princess Celestia's words. “If, if Equestria hadn't defended itself then—”
“I know,” Celestia interrupted. “I know. It was necessary. It was logical. For every pony who died, because I ordered them to or because I ordered somepony else to kill them,” she took a deep breath, “maybe hundreds more were saved. Or maybe not. We will never know. I did the best I could, and I've made mistakes, but I always did the right thing.”
This proclamation hung in the air, until after a few moments the princess abruptly changed the subject. “Did Twilight tell you about her battle with Tirek?”
“Uh…” Sunset was still feeling shaken, but tried to keep up with the conversation nonetheless. “Spike did, mostly. Big magical laser-beams, fireballs, mountains blown up, that sort of thing. It sounded very… dramatic.”
“And how it ended?”
“Rainbow power, reality warp, giant castle.”
“Just before that, Tirek had Twilight's friends held hostage.”
Sunset's expression dropped. “They, uh, didn't mention that.”
“He offered a deal. Her friends, for all the alicorn magic in Equestria.”
“But, that's…” Sunset shook her head. “That's insane. If she just handed him all that power, nopony would be safe, including her friends. It's not even a real choice at all. Her friends… they understand that, right? She couldn't go and sacrifice all of Equestria, just for them.”
“She did.”
“Huh?”
“She surrendered. As it turns out, that awakened the magic needed to open the box of harmony, and… well, you know the rest.”
Sunset considered this. “She got lucky. Good for her, but it was the wrong decision.” She hesitated, “but to be honest, I might have done the same. Sacrificing the people you care about most… I don't know if I could do that.”
“I used to think that of myself.” The princess opened the curtain, to reveal the stained-glass depiction of Princess Twilight's defeat of Lord Tirek. Sunset cringed slightly, as sunlight bathed the solar princess, once again in heat and light. “Until I did. I banished Luna. I didn't know if she would ever escape, not at the time.”
The princess turned, and Sunset froze. Surely it was just the coloured light, that made her pink eyes seem redder, and deeper? More than that, though, her expression was not… Princess-Celestia-like. “I learned something, Sunset. I learned that for the sake of Equestria, there is no line I will not cross. No pony, however dear to me, that I will not sacrifice. The very worst evils in the world are committed by those who act with the absolute conviction that they are right, and that this justifies any means. Ponies like me.”
Sunset was sweating again. Her legs wanted to run. She felt like she was standing against a storm. Princess Celestia had often radiated a sense of power, of might and majesty that reminded every pony around her that here was the millennia-old being who commanded the very heavens. It had always been a little intimidating, but reassuring, ancient and dependable as mountains.
Now it felt different. It was lesser, perhaps, but nearer. More raw. More deadly. Like comparing the distant sun to a forest fire you were standing in the path of. It reminded Sunset far too much of an angry and arrogant teenage girl, who had stolen another's crown and been overwhelmed. A demon who would burn the world down if it dared defy her.
“You're…” Sunset had to force the words out, “you're different. You're a good pony.”
The Princesses expression softened, and she turned away. “Perhaps. But so was Luna. I am not above pride, Sunset, or anger. I make mistakes, and I have learned time and again how blind I can be to the very things that should matter most. One day, I may become something monstrous, if I have not already.”
Was that what the princess feared? What Sunset had seen? Another Nightmare Moon — or… Nightmare Sun?
“I am surrounded by ponies who praise my every word. I have tried to ensure the government of Equestria has in place checks and balances, laws that even I am not above. I have tried to teach ponies to vote, and to ensure that my government — the government — can rule without me. Yet I know that if I merely gave the word, Equestria would go to war. Hundreds upon thousands of ponies would spill blood, theirs and other's, because they know that I am always 'right'. They would never even ask why.
“Sunset,” asked the princess, “please tell me honestly — do you still trust me, completely?”
Sunset looked into those eyes, eyes that held such warmth and gentleness, yet now eyes in which she could see something ancient and cruel. She wanted to trust, so badly, yet…
Sunset shut her eyes, turning her head away. “Yes,” she answered.
“Truly?”
“No. I'm sorry. Not… not completely. Not anymore.” Sunset felt a tear run down her cheek.
“Good. Thank you, Sunset.”
Sunset looked up again.
“I do not want blind loyalty, Sunset. I want, if I might dare, I need a friend. Somepony to tell me if I go too far. Somepony to question me, somepony to… to stop me. Will you? In case the time comes, will you promise me? Whatever it takes, you will stop me?”
“Princess, are you asking me…?”
“If it comes to it, Sunset, if I am a danger to other ponies… I would rather be dead than become that.”
“Princess, I don't think I could. I mean, I'm not strong enough.”
“You will not be alone, my dear student, and you are stronger than you know. Besides, you may find that I am not so powerful as you imagine.”
Sunset stared into her teacher's eyes, and saw more of herself there than she ever would have believed. She knew the answer, because she knew what she would want, in Celestia's place.
“All right. I promise.”
“Thank you.”
“Does Twilight know?”
The princess shook her head. “No, she never asked. But Twilight is different. From the day I first began to teach her, she would question me constantly, always pushing for me to support my statements. I have not known any pony so ready to question my judgement, not for a very long time. Blind obedience seems the very antithesis of her; Independant thought at the very core of her being. She is always doubting me, for all the regard she seems to hold me in, and I have little doubt that she would oppose me without the need to be asked, if she decided that my decisions were wrong. Truly,” the princess grinned, “she is my most faithful student.
“You asked me, Sunset, why I keep asking too much of you both, sending my students to battle enemies that I should be able to face by myself. Why I do not intervene directly, for the most part. Do you now feel that you understand the answer?”
Sunset stared at the floor, making sure the words made sense in her head before speaking them aloud. “You don't want us to rely on you. If you do everything for us, we will never learn how to stand up to you. You need us to know how to defend ourselves, because one day you might be the pony we need to defend ourselves from.”
“Yes,” affirmed the princess, “and also, the more the ponies of Equestria look up to ponies such as Princess Twilight Sparkle, the less they focus on me, and me alone. I said before that Equestria would go to war on my merest word, even a decade ago I believe that was certainly true, but now? If the other princesses opposed me, and spoke up against me, I do believe Equestria would hesitate, at the very least. I cannot tell you what a comfort that is to me.”
“I think you might have done,” replied Sunset. “Will you visit Twilight in the hospital?”
The princess sank. “Sunset… you were right. It is in essence my fault that she is there.”
“Nah, I gave her too little credit, and now you are, too. Besides, we both know it would mean a lot to her. And it would mean a lot to you, too. Little everyday friendship things are what keep the demons away.”
Princess Celestia grinned, and smiled. “Sometimes the wisest ideas come from great minds. All right, I will go right away, since I had to cancel the day courts early.”
Sunset did not miss the slight dig at her. “Well, next time I feel like screaming at you, I'll try to remember to make an appointment, first.”
Celestia sniggered. “That might be advisable. I am glad my guards waited for my signal before attempting to arrest you, this time. Oh, and Sunset?” the princess paused in the main doorway, then leaned in towards Sunset and continued in a conspiratorial whisper, gesturing to a smaller door in the corner of the room, “that doorway leads to my chambers, straight down the hall. If you want to make use of my bathroom, you have my full permission. And don't worry about the floor.”
Sunset nodded, and glanced quizzically back at the floor where she'd been lying. There was indeed the shine of wetness — had she really been sweating that much? And a slight yellow-ish tint…
Oh. Yep. She'd wet herself. That embarrassment would be haunting her for a while, now.
“Not the first time,” Celestia reassured her, “I've had this conversation with a few other students over the centuries, after all. I'm honestly impressed at how quickly you recovered.”
Sunset's cheeks burned, but she didn't have an answer, so she began the walk to Celestia's bathroom.
“Ah,” remarked Princess Luna, encountering Sunset Shimmer in the hallway, “the 'what I fear most' speech?”
Sunset nodded.
“Wet yourself?”
Sunset nodded, embarrassedly.
“Did she use me as an example?”
Sunset nodded, again.
Luna rolled her eyes. “I honestly cannot fathom why ponies deem me to be 'the over-dramatic one'.”
With this, she turned and walked away, mane swirling around her like a billowing cloak of pure night.
Later that day, Sunset was once again visiting Twilight in the hospital — Princess Celestia had been and gone.
The two sat, and talked, and laughed. Sunset felt her spirits lift, but certain thoughts still plagued her.
Eventually, she asked what was on her mind.
“Uh, Twilight? I was just wondering, um. Not wanting to dampen the mood, but…” at the last minute, she tried to think of a better phrasing, but nothing came to mind. “Supposing, I mean, just imagine, hypothetically, if, if I went… bad, again. If I was hurting ponies. If you could stop me, but not without hurting me. Or worse. If… if the only way to stop me was to…
“Would you? Would you do that, for me? Twilight? Would you stop me from hurting ponies?”
“Sunset,” Twilight took a slow breath, her expression serious, “are you asking whether I would kill you, to protect Equestria?”
Sunset nodded.
“No,” answered Twilight. “I'd stop you, but I'd find a way to save you. Always.”
“But… what if there wasn't a way?”
“I'd find one.”
“But sometimes there isn't one!”
Twilight shook her head. “I refuse to believe that.”
Sunset wanted to shake her, to argue with her, but how could she argue with something as absurd as that? Then she remembered some of Princess Celestia's words: “Twilight is different”, “She reminds me of Starswirl”, and most importantly, “In so many ways you remind me far more of myself.”
The heroic decision. The logical decision. Sacrifice your friends, or lose all of Equestria, friends included. Banish your own sister, or watch her rain terror on the kingdom you both worked so hard to create. Kill your own beloved mentor, or watch the twisted monster she had become rampage across Equestria while you searched vainly for a way to save her.
Twilight had made a choice.
Celestia had made her choice, too, long ago.
Sunset had made a promise. She didn't plan on breaking it, and didn't regret making it.
She and Twilight were very different ponies.
Sunset had learned something very important about Princess Celestia today.
She'd learned something about herself, too.
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A very interesting take on the problem.
Do you intend to continue it?
7958891 Ah, no. Completed, just missed that I hadn't marked it as such. Thanks.
7958899 You are welcome!
Yep... this perspective is going to stick in my head for a while, or even permanently.
Interesting take on the similarities and differences between Sunset, Princess Celestia and Twilight. Though in-show it does seem like Twilight almost worships Princess Celestia, but I like this interpretation of Twilight's actions as a Princess compared to Celestia. As well as a decent reason for why Celestia just sits around eating cake rather than dealing with more problems.
Sunset often does seem more like Princess Celestia than Twilight, though that might've contributed to their eventual rift too (likes repel sometimes). A good deal of angst, but I'm glad the Luna appearance offset it a bit.
+1. Headcanon acquired.
Nice to see morally ambiguous Celestia.
Favourited and liked.
I really can't say more than that; I was never really a wordsmith, able to precisely say (or, since this isn't a sound-based form of communication, write) how I felt about something. I'd say "amazing", but that seems a bit...generic. Besides, other readers have already basically said how I felt, so I don't want to sound/read like a parrot.
A very well-written character piece. I really liked the way you dig into the different characters and their viewpoints, giving each their fair shake, not absolutely condemning one or the other. In a lot of works, the whole "kill your friends for the greater good or try to save everyone" dilemma is often played as having one unequivocally "right" answer that the opposing "side" gets dunked on for not agreeing with, but this was a very thoughtful, nuanced exploration of the concept that doesn't just boil it down to a straightforward answer. Nicely done.
A good story well told, and very plausible. There were a couple of minor text quibbles, but frankly that’s better than a lot of fiction from major publishing houses these days.
I think this would be much better without the Sunset/Twilight bit. The drama, the drama, the drama... And Luna. It was complete, then. The last bit is unnessesary.
Wow. Amazing fic that addresses Celestia, Sunset and Twilight in a very believable way. I address a very similar point to the one you're making in one of my own fics.
To quote Superman from Injustice Gods Among Us:
"We never know what we're truly capable of."
Indeed, Twilight is different.
An intriguing, but pleasant read
I'm not really feeling it, to be honest. Not the morally ambiguous take on Celestia, but rather the way it it describes Twilight and Sunset.
We see Sunset trusts Celestia absolutely (Which for Celestia is "The Problem".) while Twilight makes a habit of questioning and doubting...
Except as far as I can think of, this is not really the case, sometimes to the detriment of the show itself. Twilight rather has a tendency to simply go right along with whatever Celestia has ordered her to do... even when it seems to completely fly in the face of everything Twilight has learned thus far. (Tirek, The Crystal Empire)
By comparison, Sunset is an outright rebel. Whatever flaws she may have had, unquestioning obedience was never one of them.
Taken that way, which is at least how I see it, the whole basis of the story kind of falls apart.
Ok, first of all:
OMG FEATURED FRONT PAGE EVERYONE THANK YOU!!!
(*ahem*)
7962489 A Luna cameo kinda completes any story, but I wanted Sunset to reflect on what she'd learned.
7962837 Belief and obedience aren't always the same, is my take on it. You can believe in a deity but still defy them, or obey without really believing in them. At the very least, I think Twilight has displayed a lack of blind faith right from S1E1, also in "A bird in the hoof" and "Lesson Zero". As for Sunset, I guess I see her as the rebellious teen who nonetheless never quite sees their parent as only human — rebelling against authority, not actually questioning whether that authority exists in the first place.
As for the rest of you, well, thank you, again.
ho
ly
shit
"Sunset, when you adopt a name in the way I have, you are making a promise to yourself to live up to that name and all it represents... but she,,,? She was the one who broke that promise. She is the one who does not deserve the name 'Celestia'. She is my secret... She is my shame!"
"What I did, I did without choice."
"I know."
"In the name of peace, Harmony and all My Little Ponies."
"Yes... but not in the name of Celestia."
Woah, I wish people will think more and less about assuming Celestia is a tyrant, I mean come on, it's either you or great minds like this author that make the decision to teach you. Don't assume things yourself if you are unsure. Search. Ask. It's what friends are for. I hope this fanfic gets more views, the fandom deserves to know about this!
I have been musing recently with a very similar concept.
I was worried it would be too similar for comfort but indeed they are more than different enough.
Good one shot.
7962837
I noticed that as well.
If Celestia went all "Solar Flare", Twilight Sparkle's first reaction would be to try to save her beloved mentor. That hesitation might doom the world and all the little ponies in it. Twilight isn't ruthless enough to protect Equestria from what Celestia fears she might become. So Celestia turns to Sunset Shimmer instead. Works for me.
A while after reading this, I stumbled across a picture that reminds me very much of Sunset's vision in this story. "Beautiful and Terrible" is by Greviousfan. Check it out here: http://grievousfan.deviantart.com/art/Beautiful-and-Terrible-564831840
7962876 It's not about the cameo. With 3 lines she nullified all the effect and suspense of... everything before that. 'Yeah yeah. I've heard that one before.' Dismissive, and with a good reason.
But, oh well.
Twilight, "Celestia, why do you dump all the super villains on me?"
Celestia, "Because the show needs conflicts to be solved by the main cast, and I pretty much can't do anything anyway. I mean, Luna and I couldn't even stop a snow storm. For demi-goddesses, we really suck."
Twilight
"So meta..."
7964497
Celestia: That's why we have fans who write us as badasses
Seems like this points to Celestia making sure that there is a balance of rule between Twilight and Shimmer in the same way there is between her and Luna.
Having served in the U.S. military I also understand the challenge of making a life or death choice between more then one person.
The choice of how far over the line you can go for someone else and come back and the cost for crossing it.
A similar theory here is a mother who has to chose between saving her own child and someone else's child.
Ah. This again. Because of course a realistic character needs to have a dark and edgy past with horrible deeds to balance out any apparent benevolence. Why do people keep writing this story?
I very much like this story, but I just can't find that "Twilight questions Celestia all the time" part. The only times I remember her actually acting against what the Princess said in the show, it was never to her face, always when manure had hit the fan so much already that there wasn't even a Celestia around to stand up to.
I mean, she grumbled a bit about Celestia telling her not to pursue the Nightmare Moon lead, but didn't say anything to her. She went up to evict a dragon with ponies she still barely knew, and two of them at best actually suited for the task. She went to the Crystal Empire with practically no information, without asking if there was any information. She even went crazy on the mere assumption of what Celestia might want of her.
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I think that especially episodes like Lesson Zero and A Bird In The Hoof show Twilight's blind faith in Celestia, in one of the worst stages: blindly following her without her on mere assumptions, not because she said or did something but just on what they think she might want. And that's even more dangerous than what Celestia is talking about. Considering Twilight seriously believed her kind and benevolent mentor to imprison and exile her over a missed homework, one can only guess what Celestia would actually have to do for Season 2 Twilight to speak up against her.
OK, regarding Twilight's attitude to Celestia, I'll concede that I maybe didn't do the best job sticking to show canon. If I'd left out Celestia's description of Twilight's "questioning nature" altogether, and just focused on the heroic vs logic thing, I'd probably have fewer complaints without detracting from the story. If I'd handled it better, I could maybe have improved the story, even though it wasn't really the main point I wanted to get at.
7966486 In this case, because I'm not really adding anything that isn't already canon, or easily extrapolated from canon — just trying to point out that the show canon itself has a darker aspect that isn't really explored, and would make a pretty good explanation for Celestia's inactivity.
We know she's ruled Equestria for over a thousand years. Her authority seems to border on absolute, which technically makes her a dictator (benevolent or otherwise). I think it's pretty unlikely that there's never been a war in all that time, and at least in one canonical alternate timeline, Celestia is sending ponies into battle — they may not explicitly mention death in the show, but it seems like a pretty big stretch to me to suppose that all pony "wars" are completely bloodless food-fights. Especially not with pony armour, spears, and so forth.
That implies Celestia has been responsible for pony deaths — the way a monarch is during times of war. She may have done the best she could to avoid it but frankly, if she doesn't feel the weight of that responsibility, then she isn't benevolent.
We also know she exiled her own sister to the moon for a thousand years. She turned Discord into stone. All this is canon.
The only things I've added, really are:
1. Execution of traitors. Maybe canon Equestria never had a death penalty, even in times of war. So, she had them imprisoned instead? Still a dark aspect to rulership.
2. The concept of "Nightmare Sun", or whatever you want to call her. But even without that, the point should remain — Celestia wields absolute power, and if she's really benevolent, she should be aware of what a heavy responsibility that is, and the dangers of corruption. “Nightmare Sun” is a way of simplifying that, nothing more.
Realistic characters don't need a dark side. Realistic monarchs who wield absolute authority automatically have a dark side, right there, we just tend to glaze over it.
I feel like the author and I were watching two separate shows. I've never got the impression that Twilight ever questioned Celestia until maybe the most recent seasons. She was always the blindingly loyal tool obsessed with what her teacher thought of her. I also never got the impression that Sunset did not question Celestia at nearly every turn, especially in the later part of her stint as the Personal Student.
I see the parts where Twilight would not sacrifice another for Equestria and try her hardest to save another. I also get the feeling that Sunset might be more likely to make the choice to sacrifice others for the sake of the whole.
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Care to actually support that claim?Edit: Wow that came out pissier than I intended.
I don't agree with any of your reasoning, all of which seems to stem from the idea that a ruler must be tainted in some way. That idea isn't obviously true, and I want to know where you're getting it from.
Like others, my immediate reaction up reading the "Twilight is always questioning me" line was an emphatic "LOLWUT?"
But, it doesn't really matter. This is an excelent story . Thumbs up from me.
Oh well done. Very well done indeed.
This is also a topic that's rattled around my head for quite some time, so I'm glad to see someone tackle it.
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She was quite ready to scream right in Celestia's face when the latter brought Discord into their town. And she directly went against Celestia's orders that she had to personally save the Crystal Empire too.
I wouldn't call that absolute blind faith.
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She held on to Celestia's (frankly idiotic) orders in the Crystal Empire right up until she had absolutely no choice not to, and the only reason Spike was available at the end was because he insisted very strongly that he come along after Twilight tripped the door trap.
Discord is just about the only time she really truly doubts Celestia's decision to her face. Ultimately this suggests it is an exception, rather than the rule.
7967941 I agree, it's the exception. But it also goes against Twilight blindly accepting everything asked of her. For that matter, we also saw her go against Celestia's orders in the very first episode. Celestia told her to make friends, Twilight didn't try because she believed it more important to be ready for Nightmare Moon.
7966486 I don't think I'd say that. The story still showed Celestia as benevolent, it just said that she has flaws like everyone else. Sending ponies to war for a good cause doesn't "balance out any apparent benevolence" it just shows that rulers sometimes have to make hard decisions in the name of the greater good.
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Like I already said:
She went to the Crystal Empire on barely any information, not asking for any information or questioning if maybe putting a whole country's safety on the line for a test was such a good idea. There's a difference between questioning orders, and not following because there simply is no available option to do so.
And even after they saved the day and the Empire, without any casualties, Twilight actually went back to panicking and thinking that she had done something wrong simply because she didn't save the Empire exactly the way Celestia wanted.
The time when Celestia told her to free Discord might qualify, but it's still one example against a dozen, and she still did as instructed after Celestia told her she was serious with only a minimum of explanation.
(And it came back to bite her half a dozen times before it actually did any good)
7967371 An absolute ruler is responsible for what happens to the people they rule over. The world isn't perfect, so some suffering and death is inevitable. A good ruler makes the best decisions they can, but sometimes there is no perfect answer, and people will suffer, no matter what you do. There's always the question "could I have done better?". There's always the question "what gives me the right to make these decisions?".
The weight of that responsibility, the uncertainty of it, the certainty that one day you will make a mistake (because everyone does), and that people will be hurt by it, all that adds up to what I would call the "dark side" of being a ruler.
Or are you going to tell be that banishing your own sister to the moon for a thousand years is not, in any way, "dark"?
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Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. (What a confusing way to word this)
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No. Ultimately people are responsible for themselves. This reasoning only works if you eliminate all forms of choice from the population. In which case you're not talking about Celestia, you're talking about Sombra.
At its most selfish, it was an act of pure self-defense.
At its most selfless, it was an act of extreme self-sacrifice for the benefit of her nation.
Yes, I am absolutely going to say that it was not dark. Tragic, yes. Painful, yes. Ruthless, possibly. Dark, not even a little.
7968843 So you choose to believe a general cliche over specific observations. In other contexts that reasoning would be called profiling, stereotyping, racism, and other generally frowned upon ways of thinking. Hardly a valid argument.
To Celestia:
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To build on what others have already said about your Discord comment, you could consider the encounter with Discord to be one of the most traumatic experiences, for its time, these characters experienced. Especially previously shut-in, now out and experiencing everything she missed in life up to her going to Ponyville, Twilight Sparkle. In fact, in a more realistic setting, the experience could have instilled a bit of PTSD. So her reaction when Celestia delivers Discord is built up on a lot of stressors, so it can be considered an exception.
Twilight is also not this beautiful saint that the author has painted her to be. Lesson Zero pretty much stands as a big red flag, but as the argument stands, it can pretty much be attributed to an exception. The point is, she's not as perfectly saintly as the author seems to think. I also want to state that she is my least favorite character of the main cast, so I already have a level of bias against her.
That bit with Luna was perfect for balancing the mood.
7965878 Discord waves a banner that says, "At least I'm useful sometimes!"
hmmm it's alright...
7966486 Well THAT was a terrible post, I sure hope nothing worse comes al-
7969078 Oh goddammit.
This is where the story breaks down for me.
Twilight is very explicitly blindly obedient and devout to Celestia even after being raised to her nominal equal, to the point it seems to actually annoy Celestia.
Where Sunset got kicked out for being well....too questioning.
It feels in a lot of ways more of a character shill for twilight than a questioning on why does Celestia raise others up.
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That wasn't her though that was the elements, she just used them.
It was written well and conveyed excellently, though you seem to fall short a bit on the characterizations of Twilight and Sunset's character. You almost have them flipped, as Twilight was for the first several seasons of the show very trusting of Celestia to a fault.
7974442 I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not going to change it now, and if one more person points it out I think I might start getting sarcastic.
(No offense)