Twilight and Spike lived their childhood in Canterlot Castle under the benevolent eye of Princess Celestia and violent protection of her resident, so called, monster. A monster she returns to to find peace with but also unexpected danger and threats.
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Thanks for the humor at the end, I really needed some happy after reading that. In fact Im probably going to go watch something really happy right now.
dang that went dark real fast andgood chapter!
Lol. Steel Edge should rename himself Iron Edge.
Hm. You wouldn't think Thestrals would be the kind to disrespect their Princess. Not with how the modern ones acted.
Well. That was dark, and awful. But nothing you haven't almost outright said before.
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Sorry about that. Couldn't really help it there. But hey, now you have a good excuse to pop in the Smile song or something similar! (it's what I do)
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Origins, man. Origins.
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no need to be sorry if annything this chapter made what an strong carakter Luna is than celestia and that she have done things that she fears that she might do again if she talks to that guard un till she fells that she have moved past it.
it allso exsplainse why she don't wants to be near him for the moments at least. allso i liked that it went dark cause it made it more intresting and intruging. and for the smile song? nah if annything i would just star playing some sabaton songs about war or something ells XD
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You dont need to apologize.
I come here for the contrast you create between joyous scenes and terrible ones. To see the progress Luna and Raegdan make. (or try to)
To think, those Lunar Guards gave up their homes and parted with their clansmen to embark on a journey where they knew they were going to die, most likely for naught, only to be humiliatingly incinerated because of Luna's madness. Death was the only retirement from the Lunar Guard at this stage. That's the real tragedy here; the absolute indignity of it all: they didn't die protecting their princess; they weren't killed in action; they didn't make any true impact despite being some of the most brave characters the story has shown thus far all things considered. At the end of the day they were merely a footnote, a statistic. They were robbed of the one honorable purpose they had.
Earlier in the story, fittingly with the New Lunar Guard, it was discussed whether or not past mistakes should hang over your head after the passage of time, even if you learn from them; and I believe yes, they should. In the broader sense, just because you learn from a mistake doesn't undo the damage caused by your ineptitude, and in Luna's case, regardless of the suffering she underwent, she killed her loyal associates in cold blood in one of the most brutal ways imaginable, and regretting that decision will never bring them back. She has lost my sympathy.
So basically they called her a dead lay and were killed for it. Mocking her first time.
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It is very interesting that at one chapter I had some characters talk about something very close to this, though it was deleted due to a rewrite (it felt too much like soapboaxing among other issues). We all know the old trope of someone trying to make up for his evil actions by performing good deeds, correct? The idea that there is a ledger somewhere where you can balance the two opposing columns by adding their totals. Have you ever noticed that in the stories, a good deed is almost always worth barely anything? Do great deeds all your life, but do a mistake and you need eternity to repay for it. Does this mean that being good is worthless then? Do only actions that almost no one will ever have the opportunity to make count? What is the point of being good and moral then if one mistake, one wrong decision, can tip the scales so far?
Or perhaps there is no balance. Perhaps the columns just are and they have no impact on each other. You do good. You do bad. How then do you make up for your mistakes? How do you set something right? How do you undo something?
Maybe you can't. Maybe, if you do a wrong, any wrong, all you should get is punishment, no matter what. You can't make up for a wrong after all if the columns don't total, and if they do then no good deed will ever be enough. Or is there a reason that says you can make up for this but not for this? Is it a scale or quality that can be defined, a clear cut point? You killed only a few, you can make up for that. You killed too many, you can't make up for that. Where is the cutoff point? Is there one? Could there be, should there be, would there be?
Where is your hope?
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I believe that by that point she was a ticking bomb. If it wasn't that them then it would be something else. Probably. Maybe they could have changed things, Maybe not. Who knows?
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Luna's actions have always had the motive of "for the greater good" justifying them to an extent. That she made monstrous decisions in pursuit of this interest―protecting the realm of Equestria―was something noble, and the suffering she underwent chasing the dream of a more secure home for her subjects complicated whether we should sympathize due to her righteous objective, or damn her, believing her agony to be her own doing.
However, here we have her explicitly burning her own soldiers to death, along with the innocent owners, uncaring of collateral, uncaring of dignity, and without the excuse of well-intentioned extremism to shield her, for now she is directly and unambiguously harming the very ponies she originally set out to protect without reason. Regardless of her mentality, at the end of the day she destroyed the platform holding her and her cause as just and compassionate. There is a difference between making an honest mistake with unforeseen consequences due to short-sightedness (that doesn't result in death or the loss of something that can never be recovered) and intentionally murdering your underlings.
Dude i didnt think my OC Steel Edge would get so much chapter time thanks. Although i hope he isnt murdered like his companions.
Can I ask if hes going to find a love in this fic?
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...
Cough.
*Clear throat*
Hrm.
*Lifts finger, standing up to talk*
*regrets, sits back down"
...
...Spoilers.
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Just sayin, Steel is physically larger and obviously stronger if he can crack a marble floor. He could easily take the few thestrals there. Dont take much to swing a few blind punches. Lol. Kinda want to know what happened to strawberry afterwards.
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You are absolutely correct. Everything else Luna did had a purpose behind it, and lest we forget about him so did Raegdan by doing everything, till the point they were still there, protecting his own (and still does). And just like Raegdan... went to beyond then, so did Luna. The difference between their actions from before to after is there, no matter how thin. Here, the thin palisade she had built to hide herself behind has broken and it will have reverberations in her (then) future. The question still stands though, can you come back from that?
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Not if those you dragged down with you can't.
I have been following this story for a long while. It is a very interesting one and I have enjoyed it and The Twilight Years. I think the latter is necessary to take the edge off of this tale.
1.) This is set in a time of survival maybe the equivalent of 600 a.d. Things were pretty brutal. Some of the things I read in pursuit of my History degree make this look tame... well you know without all the SF elements of world destroying monsters.
2.) Those Guards committed the crime of Lèse-majesté, which is in effect treason. Death was often the punishment. Considering some of the other things she has done, she was merciful to those guards and she regretted killing them. When you're in actuality a demi-god and you lose your temper it can be fatal to the objects of your anger. First time sexual experience and unpleasant and then being ridiculed by the guards... yeah I can see it. She is still traumatized about sex to this day. The fact that her paramour is also traumatized by his sexual experiences is just adding to the misery index which by now is over the famous meme number.
3.) It seems at this time it was an absolute Diarchy. An as a result, Luna as well as Celestia could claim: L'état, c'est moi, so even though she killed her guards, she was well within her rights.
4.) She was punished with imprisonment for a thousand years in solitary confinement. Yeah. That's like 10 consecutive life sentences. Served in full. No parole. Death would have been merciful compared to that. I think she can get a pass for past transgressions. I give her the reset button. Whether or not she can forgive herself is another thing. The fact she still feels the weight of her actions is admirable. She probably ought to write a tell all book like all the celebrities do and go on Geraldo and do the book tour thing. That always helps the stars out of their difficulties. "I'm in therapy and things are going, well."
5.) Redemption. It's gotta exist or once you're bad you might just as well stay bad... and I don't think that is good for anyone... or in this case the world. The very fact both she and Raegdan are trying to be better has to count. They both have PTSD so bad it's not even funny. Not to mention the assassination attempts.
6.) Luna was and is a product of her age and environment. She can't be judged by the current standards, especially since she didn't evolve with them like Celestia did. She is a thousand years behind the times and Her world view is anachronistic and it will take a long time to "get it."
7.) She was going to commit suicide. That alone tells you that she had had enough. The fact she was saved by Raegdan might be Harmony working. She is friends with Raegdan. Friendship is magic. Magic makes it all better. If Starlight Glimmer can be redeemed... Luna can as well. Since this is a grittier world than the TV show, I guess Luna will have to earn her happy ending instead of being gifted it. Probably by destroying a couple more Titans... What fun!/sarcasm
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You know, I never actually consider the Lèse-majesté excuse or law much. I think of it more of a moral standpoint than a legal one, and you can see even here Luna flimsily trying to excuse herself by saying it was not her fault, not that it was her prerogative. Of course, all this, as well as the fact that she was trapped for a millennia in what she describes as hell, and everything else, it all stands or crumbles in the eye of the beholder. Is she worth redemption, is she not, should there be one, can there, I'm doing my best not to have the story itself give a condemnation or acquittal. Though, of course, since I believe there should be a way of redemption, even for the worst, then there will have to be something resembling it at the very least in the end. Either that or I'm doing the most horrible bait-and-switch ever and there ARE people here who know where I live.
But the banter and debate back and forth does help me crystallize on issues I've never even considered (I'm just one person after all) and I try to keep them in mind in future chapters so keep that going.
Great as always. I love how you characterize Luna. I don't think I have seen this much thought and care be put into it before.
And here we see the consequences of pushing a demi-god (a demi-god that you nominally respect and are loyal to no-less) that is widely accepted/suspected to be fairly unstable over the edge.
It doesn't take much to break a camel's back after all: just one straw.
It's relentless or unrelenting. Great chapter! The opening scene was fantastic
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Crimmar, I thought a while on how to respond to your comment or even if I should. Too bad (for me) I minored in Philosophy so your comment about morality kind of made me think about that and what exactly it meant. "Moral standpoint?" Whose morals? What is morality? Is morality separate from a God/Supreme Being, or is morality the sole purveyance of that God/Supreme Being? Can a "god's will or act" be wrong? Or evil? Who judges that and do they have jurisdiction? What culture are you using as a yardstick? What is moral and right in one culture is not in another and it even varies over time and cast. In Cultural Anthropology, it's called "moral relativism" and "cultural relativism." Basically it proposes there is no absolute "right and wrong" but, your culture determines right and wrong. Not that I necessarily believe that, but many do. Grey and Gray Morality is sometimes what you have, like it or not.
If people can't agree on morality, can they at least agree on the legality? Sure, there are legal grey areas, but law is usually more clear-cut than morality. Was it against the Law? Does that Law even apply to a Princess/Diarch and or demi-Goddess? What if that nation or culture no longer exists? If Nightmare Moon won, all those who opposed her would be by definition traitors to the crown. Her Crown. Winner takes all and makes the rules. Might makes right. Or does it? Of course it is up to you, Crimmar, you are in fact the "Creator" in this fanfic and I'm interested in your answer. (Not necessarily in the forum, but in the story.)
It's why I went the "legal route." It doesn't matter what is moral or not, just so long as it is legal. I thought too many people were talking smack about Luna. I figured I'd put my $0.02 in and come to her 'legal' defense. Doesn't matter to the accused if they get off on a technicality... so long as they get off. The way people don't seem to care or remember History, Luna can wait out the bad press. It'll eventually be ancient history and forgotten anyhow while Luna continues. She was forgotten after a little less than a thousand years. No one remembered Luna, only Nightmare Moon and that only in Myth and Legend in the form of Nightmare Night. Nightmare Night eventually turned into a foals' holiday, not taken seriously by adults. Even her eventual prophesied return was forgotten by all but Celestia and a certain purple unicorn.
Yes, Luna tried to justify that action to herself, she has her own moral code. She violated it and it made her feel guilty and like a failure because of it. Can she get over it? Time heals all wounds they say, and one thing immortals have is time. Like I said, I hope Luna gets to earn her happy ending and I am glad the banter back and forth helps with your crystals and I like reading about your thought process and I look forward to the next installment.
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Morals and ethics have always fascinated me. For me there is so much to think about, in a gray vs gray landscape, but even in a black vs white one so sharply defined you could play chess on it.
By the way, before I continue, there is no reason to think if you "should" say something or not, at least to me.
I look at Raegdan and Luna and what I see is... children in a sense. While they are very similar, there is a point that they are very different, one of them being the pillars of their morality. Luna had done things she may or may have not felt are not right but buried them anyway under the morality of her position, the role she played, the balance she swivelled to the side of life, and such. Sure, she thought, I may have used ten peasants as bait and they died horribly, but that saved the lives of potentially much more. I could have used guards, she admits, but their death could potentially mean more deaths due to their lack of being there, and they are more precious. I laid waste to villages with no concern of whether they were all infectious or not, but it was to save far more.I am a princess, she excused herself, and owe no explanation to no one.
She is not exactly wrong there, is she?
Though it might have been that last one that let her meddle with Twilight and co's minds. In the past it allowed her to bury the guilt of killing her guards after enough time. But... who's to say this wasn't her right?
She is now however faced with a DIFFERENT morality. One that says that all lives matter the same. One that talks about happiness and equality. You do not get to decide who lives or dies because you have power, you don't give up without trying your best. The word "if" and "potentially" are no longer good enough. It is a different system, and it is of course carried by a different society that has more options available now. Having the right to do something, in this world, does not give you the moral high ground. And it is true that you cannot quite judge Luna when you have no full knowledge of the world she lived in and her circumstances. Which is why a lot of ponies don't. I don't think I've had anyone ever tell her in the present that her actions before (apart from Nightmare Moon and all its relevance) are something she should be punished for.
Here is something to think of though. Luna has now been learning this new system of values, and she finds herself agreeing with it. Luna is however straddling a line. She might not be able to see the period difference that another sees. For the ponies, it was a thousand years ago. For her, it was what she did in her lifetime. She doesn't see it as a period of different values. It is a continuous line for her. And while she may have been able to bury any feelings of guilt under her previous moral code, she is now adopting a different one that tells her that she IS responsible. She makes herself feel responsible.
It is an sad reality that becoming a better, more open, friendlier person is making her more miserable even while it lets her feel more happy at times.
Redemption has a price. Can't forget that. It's not forgiveness. She stayed a thousand years on the moon, but was this redemption? No, this was a punishment or done to protect others. Punishment can be used as a tool for forgiveness; suffer this and you are forgiven. Redemption however means more than to make up for something. It means to be kept from doing the wrong you did ever again, to undo the flaw, not just the act, and it is hard. If you kill one person, and you save a thousand, does that redempt you? Or is redemption achieved differently and more simply?
For Luna, her redemption is the acceptance of her mistakes, mistakes that she now begins to realize, and many of which we haven't been shown yet. She will have to stop burying her head in the sand to avoid looking at what she has done. Even what she does now, her Lunar Guard while praiseworthy is a secret attempt to tilt the scales that she feels. If she does enough good then the bad will have been written off and she won't have to admit to anything. That's what she thinks. But it's not like that, is it? Not really.
Spoilers: Luna will earn redemption (or what I see as such to be more precise). This does not necessarily equate happy ending. It also does not necessarily equate an unhappy ending.
Further Spoilers: There will be an outright HAPPY ending... two more stories down the road.
Further, Further Spoilers: Next chapter coming in the next couple of days or about (Gonna start on the drawings tomorrow).
The fuck? I'm sorry but this is so far out in left field even for this story that I can't read anymore
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I Agree With you I was like What the fuck? and immediately stopped reading for the day. Its so Out of Character That I refuse to accept this as cannon Just like when I read twisted I felt disgusted because it was so out of character for both of them. Ill just be Skipping over this chapter and refusing to read it.
On the other hand Did Luna Just randomly drag somebody into her bed? is she Drunk? Since this story is from a long time ago i would guess shes much younger aswell.
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I should probably explain this one. I thought the motivation would be more visible, but apparently I failed in making it distinct enough. That's on me.
Luna, as a character is a not-so-young anymore Alicorn who nevertheless hasn't matured enough socially/emotionally. Her life in this AU has been: get raised by her sister / see sister create a kingdom / decide to go out to play warrior to help sister's kingdom / get screwed as the lifestyle she chose drags terribly on to her and is too proud and too timid to reveal to her sister that she doesn't want to do what she does any more (part of it being her thinking that then Celestia might have to do partly what she does). She's lonely, emotionally starving for attention and comfort, and too distant to grow bonds with others. Enter her forming the first Lunar Guard out of Thestrals.
She now has ponies around her who respect her. Who have an understanding of the drudgery she lives. Who give her attention, and give her comfort. And she comes to think that "hey, maybe one of them could be closer with me, and I can be more like the other ponies who are couples and are so happy. They like me, I could do this." At this point she craves such closeness. She's like a dehydrated person who finally finds a stream of water and gorges themselves until they puke.
So she approaches one of them that she finds more approachable and likes more. She, more or less, has little nuance and basically tells him she wants him to be with her, and basically... well, first timer. She communicates badly, obviously. And the Thestrals and Fervor? They have a completely different image of what and who she is that who she truly is. The Thestrals as a whole believe her to be this unstoppable machine who takes what she wants and owes no explanation to anyone. That she is experienced in everything the world has to offer. And poor Fervor thinks she wants a shag, and he doesn't want to go against her. It's a discrepancy of power that makes him go with it, but not one that Luna understands, and one Fervor completely misunderstands.
And when the deed is done, the rest of the Thestrals think nothing of it but just sex and thus take it lightly, and are so into the banter that they don't get the implications of when Fervor said that Luna was a virgin. No one takes notice of every word and its insinuations at all times, especially when drinking. Fervor here starts to understand though. He starts to understand that this was a mistake, that Luna wanted something he couldn't give, that she isn't what he believed but much more vulnerable. The full ramifications have not dawned on him yet, but they slowly do.
As for Luna? She figures out how hard she got it all wrong, is ashamed, angry, feel betrayed, guilty, everything. She fears everyone will know and even the Thestrals won't respect her; that ponies and Celestia will find out she all but raped a stallion; that she isn't what they think she is, that the facade will break and then all bad truths will come to the surface, etc, etc. In essence: she panicked, all her worst fears (doesn't matter if imaginary or not) came to the surface, and she fucked up.
Twisted meant to show how twisted some things were in their mind; Luna thought that what she has with Raegdan has to have a physical aspect and that there's something wrong with her or them if she can't do it (there's no physical attraction from her side) and is part of her need to feel that she can go back into being part of everyone else and not an outsider of society (you see this in how she sticks to protocols and tries to follow guidelines that give her a cordon of safety, formality, and how she tries to integrate with others she gets to trust). And Raegdan is so mute to such invasions and completely compliant with up to and torturing himself for the sake of others that he'd undergo anything if it gave him an advantage or made someone he liked a tad happier. In his mind, someone using him sexually would barely blip.
By the way, I'm not saying you guys read it wrong or didn't get the in-character motives. I'm saying that the author is at fault if those motives and patterns are not translated to the reader in order to make sense. This is my way to patch the fuck-up.
At one point when the story's done I really need to go over it and fix this kind of thing using the hindsight I got now.
Seems to me that the only "honourable" and "loyal" ponies woulda been whoever served nightmare. Not prone to treachery for their personal feelings, morals and lives. Humanity proves itself superior once again in its strength and valour.
The past is gone, the future is uncertain but the present is a gift. To accept, to take or give away. Perhaps to spend with others so the future will be a past time well spend...