• Member Since 17th Jun, 2014
  • offline last seen 2 hours ago

Rammy


T

Spike is a dragon. Or more of a dragon shaped pony. At least that is how he always felt of himself until two events in his life changed that: His Greed Growth and the teenage dragons from the migration. These events spiraled him into a deep depression and fear. Fear that his nature would one day overpower his upbringing and destroy everything he cares for...

But maybe, perhaps... what he thinks of dragons and what they really are different. If only his last remaining relative can get him to see the truth.

Chapters (87)
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Comments ( 125 )

I've been holding my tongue, but I'm here.

Hi.

This seems like an AU from your previous story? Are all the events and system setup going to be the same, but retold or is this new because there will be similarities to the old canon but differences?

I've been holding my tongue because HK has been unlikable so far, and I didn't want to just complain about it. He talks about how dragons aren't that bad, but he's abusing the hell outta Garble in a very cruel way. He also is already acting stubborn and like he knows better than everyone else, which I remember as pretty annoying.

But maybe Spike will be a positive influence.

Also you spelled Derpy as Derby once this chapter.

7865056 Was wondering when you would show up :moustache:

This seems like an AU from your previous story? Are all the events and system setup going to be the same, but retold or is this new because there will be similarities to the old canon but differences?

The second so shush on the spoilers! :trixieshiftright: :trixieshiftleft:

I've been holding my tongue because HK has been unlikable so far, and I didn't want to just complain about it. He talks about how dragons aren't that bad, but he's abusing the hell outta Garble in a very cruel way. He also is already acting stubborn and like he knows better than everyone else, which I remember as pretty annoying.

Well considering my answer above this should not come as a surprise to you.

But maybe Spike will be a positive influence.

He will.

Also you spelled Derpy as Derby once this chapter.

Don't have an editor besides myself and sometimes I type with a bit of dyslexia.

Well at least someone is trying to tell HK off for basically being looking forward to harming Equestrian guards.

Depending on the similarities of the canon, I may tell him off for something else, too. Something he probably should have been told off for in the original one.

Sorta weird that Twilight didn't bring Spike, although that probably makes more sense than her bringing him, if she was actually concerned about his safety.

Funny that those things are sorta polar opposites: in order for Twilight to seem like she cares for Spike, it would be better if she made him go away during danger, instead of bringing him along.

7869077

Well at least someone is trying to tell HK off for basically being looking forward to harming Equestrian guards.

To be fair he only knocked the guards out and he is a bit miffed at the moment...

Depending on the similarities of the canon, I may tell him off for something else, too. Something he probably should have been told off for in the original one.

Well that was pretty much about every time HK showed up if I recall correctly though I and I can safely bet that you will tell him off next chapter...

"Explain yourself!"
"I--"
"Shut up!"

So, what? HK can kill basically everyone that is alive? Honestly, I think that even if all the people in there were badasses he would still beat them and be like "no wonder you're so weak" since you spent all chapter telling us he's the most powerful person alive.

This is his honor, of course. To threaten war and murder over petty slights. Which is the true meaning of "honor" anyway. Honor is a system of telling people when they are allowed to be violent. Specifically people who very much want to kill others, and would default to solving problems with violence.

"You can't kill someone because you don't like them!"
"I make them promise to protect someone for me, instead!"
They don't do it in a borderline situation, because it would be bad for the person they want to protect and might just cause them harm.
"You filthy oathbreaker!"

Thus it is with honor.

7871810 Hey! I was right, you did tell him off this chapter... as for next chapter you wont be the only one...

*HK is both the strongest character so far introduced and one of the weakest...
*The full details of the treaty and why have not been fleshed out in story yet it is coming.
*Finally, have you forgotten my 'habit' of hiding important clues?

"No, I can't not, not anymore..." H.K. sighed. "I would die before I can even get one shot off..."

Because he does not fulfill most of the virtues that they require to activate?

Okay, I actually doubt that they would kill him, so maybe it's a different reason why he'd die, but if they had to actually be "kind" "jovial" etc... HK is not those things. So unless he has different requirements, he wouldn't be able to activate them.

In fact, he's not just not some of those things, but the opposite. Especially in that he's cruel, but I don't really think he's all that generous either.

7875126

"No, I can't not, not anymore..." H.K. sighed. "I would die before I can even get one shot off..."

Because he does not fulfill most of the virtues that they require to activate?

Okay, I actually doubt that they would kill him,

No the Elements would kill him and not because he does or does not embody them,

As for embodinig the elements you are quite right in that he is the opposite of at least 4 of them at this point.

So unless he has different requirements, he wouldn't be able to activate them.

maybe, maybe not...

Oh hey, Torch exists. Neat.

Also, I really didn't expect HK to let Garble go so easily.

Of course, because he was also involved with Torch, it might actually not be as easy as "letting him go", socially. Garble might take this at somewhat seriously as well, if he takes honor seriously.

That also being said... HK didn't mistreat Garble that much this chapter, so while Spike is right to get outraged, he also seemed like he jumped the gun a little and mostly responded to "you don't get your name" and being insulted. Just imagine how angry he'd be if HK like... beat him, or smacked him around while he's trying to apologize.

Edit: Wait no, I see that Spike noticed the scars that clearly weren't there before.

Garble seems like the type to be angrily envious of someone due to a superficial thing like "he lived around ponies and this is something I knew another powerful dragon had done" even before the apparently well known as important revelation that he was hatched by them.

oh... so he's not Spike's actual brother, who'd apparently be a small, powerful dragon that has enough magical properties to change his appearance to that of a pony, but instead, he's just the other tradee of the treaty... that somehow happened to grow as powerful and live as long as he has... but then again, I don't know how old the treaty is; it could've been made and signed as recently as the day before Spike's hatching for all I know

7882467 Before I comment I must say its nice to see somepony other then RadicalDishonesty comment(not that I don't enjoy RadicalDishonesty comments...)

The treaty is old...how old I won't say... Appearances can be very deceiving... H.K. is not a pony and he is Spike's brother.

7883133 I was just going on the information presented, and I figured it was VERY old... I just couldn't put a date on it other than Luna wasn't familiar with it

7883242 True I haven't even hinted at its age... I was just confirming your assessment that the treaty had to be old... as for the rest of your original comment you are a bit off and so I gave you a hint :trixieshiftleft::trixieshiftright:

I guess what we didn't see is just what is in the show more or less.

While... Spike's contribution shouldn't be discounted, he's hardly the only or most heroic person in this crisis, like his unique celebrityhood suggests. Although what he does right is MLP right: he demonstrates virtue (the unwillingness to let a friend go into danger unassisted) and is instrumental in saving the day as a result.

Hm. Did Garble leave before the last scene? It seems like Spike is there, but Garble is not.

Also you consistently misspelled "Shiny" as "Shinny."

7891575 Fixed... Yes Garble is not there.

... Is the story already over?

Or is HK being melodramatic and declared his death too early?

On specifics:
Why would Twilight go into dry heaves if someone explodes when they die? Like, it's somewhat surprising, but it's hardly disgusting, and Twilight doesn't seem like the kind of fragile person to react in revulsion or shock.

7893353

... Is the story already over?

How can H.K's death be the end of the story?

Why would Twilight go into dry heaves if someone explodes when they die? Like, it's somewhat surprising, but it's hardly disgusting, and Twilight doesn't seem like the kind of fragile person to react in revulsion or shock.

Large puddle of blood?

7893958
It's entirely possible that he's a catalyst rather than a main character, but I presumed the title meant the main conflict was going to be HK and Spike coming to understand one another to their mutual benefit.

So... it's more like I'm shocked to see him dying as I thought he would continue for quite a while longer.

She went into dry heaves right after asking why dragons left and was answered that it was thier fire going into overdrive, and it was combined with her thinking "there are facts that maybe I don't want to know" so it wasn't clear that this was about the blood, which indeed makes more sense character wise than having the magical difference described.

7894037

She went into dry heaves right after asking why dragons left and was answered that it was thier fire going into overdrive, and it was combined with her thinking "there are facts that maybe I don't want to know" so it wasn't clear that this was about the blood, which indeed makes more sense character wise than having the magical difference described.

fixed it to make it more obvious...

HK died due to fighting for Spike's well being, and then... what? All the dragons are gonna kill everyone? Ponies committed crimes warranting death, despite not committing any crimes?

Unless of course, this is the whole "you didn't follow the rules here to the letter, therefore you need to die" but why would anyone but HK care about that? No, the whole "we're gonna all want to kill you" is about them throwing a tantrum over HKs death.

And, to be frank, if they had any genuine positive "honor" they would respect HK losing his life in combat to fight for something he felt he needed to fight for. That they can't accept this would be childish.

So basically Torch is going back home to tell all the dragons in the Wastlelands that it is open season on Celestia...

Celestia better explain because I doubt Spike would take anymore of her BS.

7900994

HK died due to fighting for Spike's well being, and then... what?

H.K. didn't die for Spike's well being but Twilight's.

Unless of course, this is the whole "you didn't follow the rules here to the letter, therefore you need to die" but why would anyone but HK care about that? No, the whole "we're gonna all want to kill you" is about them throwing a tantrum over HKs death.

And, to be frank, if they had any genuine positive "honor" they would respect HK losing his life in combat to fight for something he felt he needed to fight for. That they can't accept this would be childish.

It was not over H.K.s death... though Torch's anger over H.k dying for the ponies is childish, very childish. It was over something Torch found out using the Bloodstone Scepter.

7901880
I see.

I bet it's still not enough to warrant declaring war on ponykind, but maybe.

Here's a quick writing tip: When someone addresses someone by name, put a comma before that name. That way, you clarify that it's what the character's doing and avoid unneeded confusion. if you have a sentence like

"I am aware Spike"

it could be read like that's actually a name, for example. Aware Spike. Much better is

"I am aware, Spike"

Trust me, those commas will help your readers immensely.

Comment posted by Rammy deleted Jan 29th, 2017

7904283 Thanks for the tip. Commas have always been the bane of my writing abilities...and I don't have an editor for this story to mitigate that... I'll try and keep it in mind going forward...

Yeah this is...

From your old canon, I assumed that the whole "Oathbreaker" thing was an unavoidable instinct thing, but it might indeed be a Bloodstone Scepter thing.

That being said, Spike seems to be getting really pretty unfairly angry over this, due to the whole thing where he was upset when it was revealed he wasn't "given back" to his family, which would doubly imply he has faulty reasoning (because the pony was given away "forever" but the dragon would not? If it was okay for a pony to be given away forever, why wouldn't it be okay the other way around?) and that he hates Twilight (because if he's upset that he was given into the care of Twilight, it would be because that's a situation he doesn't like) before he triggers the thing where Celestia's name becomes replaced with "Oathbreaker."

But we already know that Celestia had the oaths changed and ignored them for good reasons. For fairness and for the benefit of... it was Spike, right? It mighta been Twilight.

Might have been more affects of the scepter or some instinct thing?

If it really was the scepter then it's Torch being awful, still.

7905563

From your old canon, I assumed that the whole "Oathbreaker" thing was an unavoidable instinct thing, but it might indeed be a Bloodstone Scepter thing.

Not answering this yet.

That being said, Spike seems to be getting really pretty unfairly angry over this, due to the whole thing where he was upset when it was revealed he wasn't "given back" to his family, which would doubly imply he has faulty reasoning (because the pony was given away "forever" but the dragon would not? If it was okay for a pony to be given away forever, why wouldn't it be okay the other way around?) and that he hates Twilight (because if he's upset that he was given into the care of Twilight, it would be because that's a situation he doesn't like) before he triggers the thing where Celestia's name becomes replaced with "Oathbreaker."

The problem was that he was forced to be taken away from his family... the pony volunteered big difference. Also Spike's anger at Celestia has been building for a bit now. Actually his anger over alot is building... Spike's love of Twilight is the 'only' reason he has not tried to kill Celestia...

Was the treaty unfair towards the ponies yes... but there was genuine concern for the ponies in this aspect note H.K.s words from The Past "Even if Twilight Sparkle is truly a Bearer raising a dragon as a pony could have disastrous consequences!" and "There are certain aspects of dragon nature that can't be nurtured away." Also, there may be more to the conversation then what's in the chapter...

Hence the the stipulation as stated in The Treaty:

The pony by the name of Twilight Sparkle is hereby allowed to raise the dragon named Spike until such time as his dragon instincts emerge. When this occurs he is to be returned to the Wastelands to be trained to control his instincts.

we have already seen the hoarding instinct beginning to emerge and Spike has admitted to himself that the urge is still there...

But we already know that Celestia had the oaths changed and ignored them for good reasons. For fairness and for the benefit of... it was Spike, right? It mighta been Twilight.

the first time? Neither. It was for her ponies. as for the second time...spoilers

7905687
I'm gonna be frank:

The level of anger and response of anger for anyone called a dragon (Spike, Torch, Garble, and to a lesser extent HK, because at least with him he both held back and had a better reason to be angry) is unjustified. And if it is justified (in universe), you're not justifying it well enough in the story.

Like... Celestia was cagey to Twilight, and had a treaty with dragons that was both patently unfair for ponies and one that she ignored to ambivalent consequences (ie: it allowed him to stay with Twilight, rather than being taken away, which is ambivalent for him), which are both things to be angry over... but are also both things that Spike should probably be conflicted over. But apparently, according to you, he's so angry he wants to murder her. Outright. Even without whatever made him call her Oathbreaker, which is the reason I assumed he was talking about killing her and had this whole overreaction of smashing the fire mail thing and thinking "I can never send any fire messages again because I can't trust Celestia with anything ever."

The fact that it's Spike, a character that we as readers already have a good handle on makes it worse. I mean we could say HK's a douche, and we don't know Torch so maybe he is that bad, but Spike is not like that. He has not been like that in the show.

7905687
Alright, second followup comment.

I admit, basically after every chapter with anger my anger is flying high.

I'm not saying even that it's not right to have the anger. Just either... justify it more, or temper it more... or something. There are probably more solutions than the two I just presented, and I'd rather not tell you how to write your story.

But boy howdy will I still tell you what I don't like. :pinkiecrazy:

7905775

I'm gonna be frank:

Since when have you never been frank with me? It's what makes every comment you make so good and valuable.

The fact that it's Spike, a character that we as readers already have a good handle on makes it worse. I mean we could say HK's a douche, and we don't know Torch so maybe he is that bad, but Spike is not like that. He has not been like that in the show.

And this is an AU fanfiction:facehoof: Don't expect me to follow the rules of the show...

The level of anger and response of anger for anyone called a dragon (Spike, Torch, Garble, and to a lesser extent HK, because at least with him he both held back and had a better reason to be angry) is unjustified. And if it is justified (in universe), you're not justifying it well enough in the story.

I am getting there! Unless you want me to bore you with info dumping every other chapter. You know my style... Most of these answers are right there in the chapters.

But to help you out I'll spell it out a bit:

Spike's instincts are emerging... like for instance his hoarding urges... I mean did you think hoarding was the only instinct? If it was then the treaty wouldn't be so 'vague.'

From The Stranger

What I have not told anypony was I still feel that pull, to possess, to hoard. I can't tell them ever. Tell them that I have to be careful with everything I touch or look at.

Also a quote from The Treaty Luna:"Dragons have never taken lightly to those who dare break their Oaths." Spike has just heard that an Oath was broken and suddenly he is so enraged to want to murder Celestia... almost like he suddenly had an uncontrollable urge to hoard...hmmmm I wonder...

The treaty seems to be patently unfair to ponies but its not...

7905856 dang it you commented a second time while I was responding to the first :facehoof:

But boy howdy will I still tell you what I don't like. :pinkiecrazy:

and if you didn't I would go :pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy::pinkiecrazy:

Really, "testing" Twilight by getting... is Discord an ally to Equestria or what? But anyway, someone who was an intentionally test enemy that won't actually hurt you is better than throwing her into genuine danger.

It seems a little lost on Spike.

Seems to be weirdly lost on Discord, too, since he talks about how he doesn't want to "hurt" Spike when that was never in the cards anyway, apparently?

Of course, he also uprooted everyone's lives for this test, but he also did nothing to Spike.

But, the question remains that if Discord is not all that bad, why did Celestia banish him?

7908920 well you know Discord: he's a enigma wrapped inside a puzzle wraped outside a box and next to a mystery.

"...though I'll be crashing that too here soon anyway..."

I think I FINALLY understand it:

"...though I'll be crashing that too, soon enough, anyway..."

7926859 And that's what I get for self editing... I have changed the sentence(I didn't like the way the correction read) so it now reads "Not that it matters, I'll soon be crashing the Summit anyways...'

7926882 well, the purpose of the edit was to have as little change to the original line as possible, and still being more understandable/grammatically correct, which I believe I did

7926897 Well true it did but to me both the original and the fixed line just sounded clunky... so I rewrote the line

It should have been long enough now for Sunbutt to not tell them the truth.

Was this a typo? It taking longer would indicate Celestia would have time to say things, but he says it's been so long that she would not?

Also does Discord know he's bringing two dragons who want to kill Celestia to Celestia? I'm really hoping he has a plan for that instead of just being stupid.

I appreciated this chapter, lots of stuff was revealed but you kept the reactions to mundane revelations pretty tame and had more emotional responses to more tragic circumstances.

7934912

It should have been long enough now for Sunbutt to not tell them the truth.

Was this a typo? It taking longer would indicate Celestia would have time to say things, but he says it's been so long that she would not?

No he's saying that its been long enough for her to tell the truth but he has already figured out that she will not...or thinks that... I have edited it a bit to make it more clear...


Also does Discord know he's bringing two dragons who want to kill Celestia to Celestia? I'm really hoping he has a plan for that instead of just being stupid.

Going alone:

I was about to snap myself away...


I appreciated this chapter, lots of stuff was revealed but you kept the reactions to mundane revelations pretty tame and had more emotional responses to more tragic circumstances.

Well true... but considering that last two chapters have Discord as the narrator...yeah...:ajbemused: Also remember Spike does't trust Discord to not lie and he's trying to delay Discord while he figures out a way get the girls...

If I could keep Discord talking I could use that time to figure out a way to get the girls back here and thereby the Elements...

what he clearly doesn't know is that Discord is using this as an opportunity to kill some time before he makes an appearance at the summit...

I really hope that this whole Celestia not saying why thing is finally put to rest, because it's getting hella frustrating. Does she have a good reason to do it or not, and if she didn't why would she do it in the first place?

Also frustrating is watching Discord be an asshole about it with no consequences.

7945419 Well I have been 'sly' over this for sometime but yes its coming to an end very shortly... does she have a reason yes... now whether or not she was correct in her reasoning...

To understand how Discord is able to do what he is doing and 'without consequences' is spoilers... major spoilers though you have more info to work with then some readers...

Usually I wouldn't say this about that character, but thank goodness what was revealed in this chapter was revealed.

Only that character has the knowledge about dragons and the desire (maybe...) to stop the upcoming war without ending in genocide for either race.

7953167 okay who are you and what have you done to RadicalDishonesty?

I see HK is still an asshole. And sorta stupid.

Honestly, unless there is a serious fear that Spike will actually fall apart and go nuts because he has to lose HK again... then they need to tell Spike HK's alive. The whole reason this whole stupid thing is a problem is because everyone's like "for Spike's well being, we will not tell him something he should know."

Also:

"YOU! YOU MONSTER! YOU TORTURED HIM!"
"Ladies and Gentlecolts I present the shining example of ponies: a bucking idiotic narrow minded pacifist herbivore who's is so stuck up her muzzle is permanently brown!" H.K. snarked.
...
The powerful flame of hate in his slitted eyes pierce me right to my core. "Get your shitty head out of you pretentious ass! The world has NEVER revolved around you damn ponies!"
...
"So she can be taught to think." H.K. smirked. "The power of ONE elder dragon can eclipse Oathbreaker or Luna... As such one can not play cutesy wootsy with a dragon..."

Screw you, HK. The insults don't even make sense. She said nothing indicating that she thinks "the world revolves around ponies" and having morals where torturing is not okay doesn't mean that. She said nothing that justifies "you're so fucking stupid lololol for not knowing things you have no reason to know."

7965803

I see HK is still an asshole.

Yeah he is...

And sorta stupid.

Honestly, unless there is a serious fear that Spike will actually fall apart and go nuts because he has to lose HK again... then they need to tell Spike HK's alive. The whole reason this whole stupid thing is a problem is because everyone's like "for Spike's well being, we will not tell him something he should know."

Well you do remeber the whole fight with Spike in the train don't you?

The pure hatred I saw in his[SPIKE's] eyes... Damn you Oathbreaker! If you had only done as promised I could have eased him into our ways and not be forced to rush it... and then maybe one day ease him into the truth of who I was who he was to me... Now... it will never come...

Screw you, HK. The insults don't even make sense. She said nothing indicating that she thinks "the world revolves around ponies" and having morals where torturing is not okay doesn't mean that. She said nothing that justifies "you're so fucking stupid lololol for not knowing things you have no reason to know."

Were they suppose to? Also I have a really important counter question: When did Celestia show up?

7965956
And now Spike knows after it being forced on him quickly. Is he falling apart? For different reasons, yes, but the brother thing is not the reason why.

The evidence presented, plus that Spike only really has uncontrollable feelings in the case of oath breaker suggests to me that HK is being a drama queen with all of those things. That after some time, Spike would be open to it... as long as HK actually was on good behavior.

And this... which is worse? Spike finding out about this and having a heart to heart between them before it's over (if indeed there is no miracle cure) or finding out he had that chance except everyone hid it from him.

If it was wrong for Celestia to not tell Spike, it's wrong to keep this secret. If it was not wrong, and she had a good reason, the whole premise for the war is bullcrap but I guess HK can get his wish to keep Spike in the dark.

Hah. And right or wrong it's something HK and Celestia have very much in common. Desire to control information and hide stuff from everybody because you know better.

sorry to brake it to you HK but this does concern twilight. she is spikes family despite what you might think. It seems your more like the oath braker you hate so much then you like to admit.

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