The Needs of the Many vs. The Needs of the One
"DRAGONESS! I, PRINCESS CELESTIA, RULER OF EQUESTRIA, PROTECTOR OF MY LITTLE PONIES, DESIRE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!"
Princess Celestia stood in her royal regalia, peering into the cavern entrance as her Royal Canterlot Voice echoed within. After several moment, her echoing voice faded and was replaced by a new sound. It was the sound of a massive amount of gems being shifted as a large creature was roused out of a relaxed state. Low growling and lumbering footsteps could be heard, and soon the creature itself appeared in the cave entrance, the rising Sun shining its light upon it.
Celestia gazed upward at the adult dragoness. Her green eyes matched her spines and ear fins, while her underbelly and wing membranes were a much lighter shade of green. The rest of her scales were a pale purple in color.
The dragoness peered down at the comparatively smaller creature in turn, and breathed in and out through her nose before saying, "Why have you come here, Pony Princess? What business does your kind have in the Dragonlands? If anything, one would think you would seek an audience with the Dragon Lord, not a simple dragoness who wishes to not be disturbed."
There was an unmistakable edge to the dragoness' tone that did not go unnoticed by the Alicorn Princess of the Sun. Nevertheless, Celestia stood firm and said, "I thank you for answering my request to speak with you, fair dragoness. First, a question: Do you not currently care for a single egg. Light purple, speckled with dark purple spots?"
The dragoness' eyes widened slightly in surprise. "How do you know of the meager size of my clutch, or the pattern my only child?"
Celestia closed her eyes and nodded to herself, then she opened her eyes and said, "And the egg's sire. . .. your mate. . .he is no longer with you. Is that not also true?"
The dragoness' eyes then narrowed suspiciously, and she growled dangerously as she said, "Answer me, pony. How do you know of such things!?"
Maintaining her composure, Celestia looked the dragoness in the eye and said, "I possess a gift very rare in this world. Rare and powerful. It is a gift of foresight. Visions of the future appear to me in my sleep. Usually, they are brief flashes. Warnings of what may come to past. But very rarely, I receive visions so vivid, so detailed, they no longer become mere visions, but prophecies. One such prophecy has come to me, and it concerns your egg."
The dragoness seemed satisfied with Celestia's answer, and nodded her massive head slowly and said, "I see. And what does this prophecy say about my child?"
Celestia took a breath and said, "The egg will hatch into a health boy, and he will grow in stature and virtue. His birth will identify the Bearer of the Element of Magic, who will bring Harmony to this world. The dragon's actions will lead to many great evils being vanquished, to peace being founded between the many races of this world, to great leaders being uplifted, and for a glorious future for every single creature across the entire planet."
The dragoness' eyes shone with wonder and amazement. "This is. . . remarkable. . .and gratifying. After the loss of my mate, I feared for the future of my child. All he had left me was his gems and our egg. But knowing this. . .knowing that my child will become a great hero and a herald for the future. . .I am sure that his father's spirit is smiling from where it now resides, watching over us?" The dragoness smied a genuine smile at the Princess and said simply and honestly, "Thank you, Princess Celestia."
Celestia did not smile back. In fact, she looked rather uncomfortable at that moment. "There is. . .one thing. . ."
An uncomfortable aura suddenly descended upon the two creatures. The dragoness' smile disappeared as a sense of foreboding filled her entire being.
Celestia went on, "In order for this prophecy to come to pass. . . the dragon must be hatched and raised by ponies."
There was a solid minute of utter silence, in which the dragoness stared down hard at the Alicorn.
"I have come to take possession of the egg," Celestia stated plainly.
". . .You expect me to give you my child. . ." the dragoness said. It wasn't a question. It was phrased as tensely worded statement.
"Did I not tell you how incredible his future will be? All the good he will do?" Celestia pressed gently.
". . .and you are also delusional to the point of believing that a pony could hatch a dragon's egg," the dragoness concluded.
"The act of hatching the egg will be the sign of the Bearer of the Element of Magic," Celestia explained, "It is an impressive feat of magic, indeed. It would be the perfect vehicle for such a test, as dragon eggs can remain viable for centuries-."
"CENTURIES!?"
Celestia dug her gilded hooves into the ground to resist being blown back the the dragoness' exclamation.
"You wish to keep my child from me for centuries!?" she snarled.
Celestia bowed her head slightly and said, "Please, oh fair dragoness. The good your child will do is beyond imagination."
The dragoness blowed smoke at the Alicorn and said, "I have already lost my mate, and now you would take away my son? What is truly beyond your imagination is the pain of losing someone you loved!"
"YOU ARE WRONG!" Celestia roared, her eyes glowing white and a mystical breeze blowing through her ethereal mane. The display actually managed give the dragoness pause. Celestia calmed down, her eyes returning to normal as she said, "I have lost my sister due to my own foolishness. Only the Element of Magic can bring her back to me."
The dragoness snarled and said, "So. . . there is your motive for wanting my child."
Celestia shook her head said, "No. My sister's salvation is only one aspect of the prophecy. The child's other achievements will most certainly overshadow that."
"You would still trade the bond with my child for the bond with your sister?" the dragoness challenged.
"This is far bigger than the welfare of my sister!" Celestia shouted back, "There are evil forces out in the world! Spirits of chaos! Kings of shadow! Your son is instrumental to their defeats!"
"When he is grown, ask for him and I will accompany him to these pivotal moments," the dragoness said rather icilly.
Celestia shook her head sadly and said, "Clearly, you do not understand. The prophecy must come true. The dragon must be brought up under the care of ponies, or else the glorious future I have foreseen will never come to pass."
The dragoness snorted smoke and snarled out a single word, "Leave."
Celestia nodded in understanding, "Very well. You require time to think this matter over, as do I."
"Leave."
Celestia extended and flapped her wings and said, "I shall return in three Moons. Perhaps then we shall be able to come a better understanding of this situation.
"LEAVE!"
Celestia took off with a flap of her wings, zooming through the sky back the way she had come. Meanwhile, the dragoness stood glaring after her, with disgust and hate in her eyes.
"DRAGONESS! I, PRINCESS CELESTIA, RULER OF EQUESTRIA, PROTECTOR OF MY LITTLE PONIES, HAVE RETURNED!"
Under the light of the midday Sun, the dragoness came to the entrance of the cavern much faster than she had the first time Celestia had paid her a visit. What's more, she seemed far more irate than last time as well.
"How dare you return her after you tried to take my child from me!" the green and purple dragoness snarled, "Unless you wish to beg for my forgiveness?"
Celestia appeared to ignore the dragoness' words as she hardened her gaze and said, "During these three Moons, I have had more visions regarding the prophecy of your egg. I have seen the Lord of Chaos sealed away in stone due to messages carried by the dragon's fire. I have seen the King of the Umbrum shattered to pieces after the dragon acquires the lost Crystal Heart. I have also seen the dragon befriend and enlighten two creatures, one a female dragon, and the other a mysterious creature of many forms, who go on to become fair and just rulers that triumph over those who would have used their power for conquest and suffering."
"Why should this matter to me?" the dragoness said impatiently, baring her fangs at the straight faced Alicorn.
"I have just revealed to you four dangerous threats that will be vanquished by your child if he is allowed to grow up among ponies," Celestia said matter-of-factly, "If you do not allow this prophecy to come to pass, a Lord of Chaos, a Dark Magic wielding King, a tyrannical Dragon Lord, and a mysterious fourth threat will lead this world to ruin."
"And why cannot you vanquish this threats?" the dragoness challenged.
"The smallest of things can make all the difference in the world," Celestia replied, "The wing beats of a butterfly can either create or destroy the mightiest of storms."
The dragoness snorted smoke and said, "Nonsense."
Celestia's patience began to grow thin, and with a harsh glare she asked the dragoness, "Do you truly see you own contentment as more important than the fate of the entire world?"
The dragoness' wings flared out and she snarled, "Why is it that I must give up my child? The last time you came, you said you felt pain when you somehow lost your sister. But I assure that is nothing compared to the pain of losing a child!"
"I am very much aware of that!" Celestia shouted, her wings flare out as well, and her hooves so firmly planted that they were like iron posts embedded deep into the ground, "In fact, that is why I have come to you here and now! I see every single pony in Equestria as one of my children! I care for them as such! I wish to protect them from harm! Without that egg, the prophecy will fail, and harm most certainly will befall my little ponies! Insanity, suffering, fear, slavery, and death will claim them if I do not claim that egg! And not just for my kind, but for all creatures in this world! Dragons too! Your child will inherit a world of chaos, war, and darkness! If you continued with the selfish mindset, you will doom this world!"
"SELFISH!?" the dragoness roared back in shock and rage, "Wanting to protect, nurture, and raise my own child is selfish!?"
"You are but one dragoness. One creature," Celestia said sternly, "There are countless creatures in this world. Billions. What is one creature to essentially an infinite number of creatures currently alive and yet to be born in the future? No one can sacrifice countless others just to escape their own temporary sorrow. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one."
"ENOUGH WITH YOUR PLATITUDES!" the dragoness roared with a volume that rivaled that of the Royal Canterlot Voice, "I have shown you so much mercy by not incinerating you when you first suggested that I hand over my child to you, and yet you still test my patience! This is your last chance, pony. BEGONE!"
The dragoness raised her razor sharp claws and swung down at the Alicorn. Celestia quickly turned and took flight, quickly dodging swipe. She sped off across the scorched ground, only to suddenly teleport away only after flying a few meters away from the cave entrance, now occupied by a furious dragon.
"DRAGONESS! I, PRINCESS CELESTIA-!"
"SILENCE!!!!
The dragoness stormed out of the cave, eyes blazing as the land was bathed in the blood red light of the setting Sun. She towered over Princess Celestia, who had arrived this time wearing ornate golden battle armor, complete with a helmet that had a blade running parallel to her horn.
"Again, you return to claim my child!? YOU FOOL! WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO TEST MY PATIENCE!?"
In spite of her attire, Celestia was in stark contrast to the snarling, raging dragoness towering above her. Celestia's demeanour was subdued, saddened, depressed perhaps. With intense pain in her eyes and a miserable frown on her face, Celestia stared up at the dragon and asked in a tone of voice that was calm yet clearly only barely held together, "Will you truly never allow Equestria to care for your child and give him all the love, care, and education he could possibly desire?"
"YOU WILL NOT HAVE MY CHILD!"
The dragoness was breathing heavily now, and Celestia could already see the fire building up in the back of the furious mother's throat.
The Princess of the Sun let out a sigh and said, "Dragoness. . .It was. . .nice to meet you. . . . . . ."
Her horn pulsated with powerful magic.
". . .Goodbye."
The Moon was high in the sky, as midnight had arrived.
It was at this point where the retired princess was unable to continue her story and collapsed before the newest ruler of Equestria and the teenaged green and purple dragon that worked as her assistant.
"I'm sorry!" Celestia wailed, "I am so sorry!"
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Holy mackerel Celestia saw all that like spike helping thorax even helping the future dragonlord ember and saving the Crystal Empire wow that's a big huge vision
The Princess of the Sun let out a sigh and said, "Dragoness. . .It was. . .nice to meet you. . . . . . ."
Her horn pulsated with powerful magic.
". . .Goodbye."
..... Princess Celestia what have you done 😰
i wonder if Torch or ember knows who that dragoness is. Who know maybe she was accquainted with Torch or some other dragon. Spike will probably be angry but at the same time glad Sludge isn't really his dad
Ok umm wow so apparently Princess Celestia 1000 years ago she was talking to the female dragon who is the mother of Spike apparently and she told her about her vision that Spike will become the most important dragon in the future how to stop Discord how he saved the Crystal Empire from King Sombra also becoming friends with the changeling named thorax and also becoming friends with dragon lord Ember in the future and also becoming the ambassador of Princess Twilight Sparkle but unfortunately she needs that egg of Spike but the Dragon refuse to give it up which I understand that is her child and something tells Princess Celestia regret a lot of things she even killed the female dragon oh dear that is really bad and if she ever told the truth nobody would never trust her ever again wow that is pretty deep man nice job on the story
Not bad at all. I like the one I did better, but I sweated bullets to match up with the Cadence of Cloudsdale cycle theory of Lovebutt and Spike. It takes a lot of mental pressure to write thunderous demands and prophecy. You done good.
Even though Celestia Technically save the world. But, KILLING Spike's Mother and only family??!! Oh! I will definitely want a Sequel!!! Just so I can watch Spike to FOREVER HATE AND THEN KILL HIS LATE MOTHER'S MURDERER ( Celestia)!!!!!!!
I don’t know about spike, but I would have had nothing but bloodlust.
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Do you want to pay to see that? Because, I almost will too! 😈
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Hell yea. I would have told her to meet me outside the castle so I could do to her what my mother should’ve done 1000 years ago.
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Plus, Fluttershy, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rarity, Rainbow Dash, Discord and Big Mac, and ESPECIALLY Ember, Torch, Garble, Smolder, and Thorax won't forgive Celestia for this. And I highly doubt that Luna, Twilight, or even Cadence will "defend" her, or even trust her anymore.
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I don’t know why you mention them, because if I was spike I’d make sure they don’t get involved.
The worst part about all this is she could have done better. There could always be another method to find Magic, another way for Spike's achivements to be met.
She could have appealed to the Dragoness's hope for future, told of the child's saftey and happiness instead of railing on how selfish the dragoness is, and describing the many lives saved or improved.
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OR let the Dragoness get a home closer to Ponyville? Remember the Red Dragon in that mountain near Ponyville? WHY can't Celestia let Spike's Mother take that spot? And IF the Ponies be scared, Celestia will ensure them that the Dragoness is "Friendly", and that her being here will save Equestria in the future ( Wink Wink!). See, Problem Solved!
Holy crap that was painful
Okay, so, I'm a bit conflicted on how to accurately judge Celestia in this. On one hand, she technically saved the world. At the same time, she killed Spike's mom. One could argue that the good that came from that murder out ways the bad. This way Spike can serve his role in the story and all's well that ends well. However, Spike never got to (and never will) know his parents. And to find out that Celestia, someone who he potentially considered to be a mother figure in his life, killed his only blood family would probably crush the guy's heart.
Could Celestia have come up with a different way that didn't lead to murder? Perhaps. A few people have already given some other options in the comments. If I wasn't on mobile and about to go to bed I'd give a solution too. However, she did what she thought was right at the time and seems to accept the consequences of what she did. The needs of the many and all that jazz.
Though now that I think about it, a couple of dragon punches to the face maybe be in Celestia's very near future. At the very least anyway. Maybe that could be the judgement I make for her.
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Ah, good idea. He does have to be raised by ponies- but mother could still be there.
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Exactly! Why didn't Celestia think of that?? Without the violence and murder of course!
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I think that Celestia DESERVES much worse than a few "Dragon Punches". Heck, I bet that Pony and Dragon Relations will be totally screwed!
also you sneaky wheat waffle. That undertale ref at the end, oof. berguntrücking intensifies.
Wow this was really good. It really emphasizes how vital Spike was for everything that happened in the series. The discussion between Celestia and Spike’s mom had good points on both sides, and it is sad that Celestia had to kill her to ensure Spike would be raised by ponies and the future she saw would come to pass.
i wanna see there reactions
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for a mother he never knew, for a society he doesn't really like, when he does love Twilight and all his pony friends
This was a very cool concept, and written very well. You can feel the pain in the mothers voice through her scenes.
Though felt Celestia came off a little too cold near the end their, then again this is older Celestia who might not be nearly as nice. Plus it’s a shame we didn’t actually get a scene of Celestia talking to Dragon lord Torch about it, but I suppose it would have messed with the pacing.
As for the fic itself, it all depends not only on how accurate Celestia’s version are, but if see now they are. If it’s a case of, it’s 100% going to happen this way and thus becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Then yes.
If it’s a case of, this is just one of many possibilities then not, you can’t make decisions like this on what could be as you could do this horrible thing then everything goes wrong anyway.
I'm pretty sure that Celestia using an actual dragon egg for that test is the less likely option. My own headcanon is that it was an egg-shaped rock meant to see how you react to failure. Several other students managed to get in by being smart enough (or in Trixie's case geopolitically informed enough) to call shenanigans, but only Twilight had the right kind of crazy to pull a full Kirk on this Kobayashi Maru. Maybe a Kirk and a half, really, seeing as she still doesn't realize what she actually did in spite of failing to hatch real dragon eggs when the situation called for her to try that.
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all because of the greed of the sun
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I don't think greed is nearly the appropriate word there
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maby not but with all the possibitys avalible to her she chose to kill spikes mother as to give herself the most control over the situation and not allow anyone else the chance to change the future she wants. it might not be greed but i think we can agree that celestia was defenetly selfish
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Indeed, for a childhood he would never have, to be a slave to someone who would never care, for a parent he could never find, to be a mind forever chained in servitude, an exotic pet to be paraded as anathema to antithesis of pony supremacy.
That is Spike.
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Would you?
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I fundamentally disagree with your view of Spike's relationships on the show
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Twilight - if Spike wasn't the equivalent of a house-slave from the 1970's she'd have died from over exhaustion and the inability to cook basic food, or function at all.
Lets also not forget the sheer shit-ton of things she has spells for but has Spike do anyway.
Or the fact that Spike doesn't go to school and isn't allowed viable social interaction needed by young minds.
But it's alright, he isn't a pony, he is clearly mature, he clearly didn't have to mature else suffer, he clearly functions differently from other children, because he's a dragon of course, I'm sure none of it has to do with the gratuitous lack of care on part of everything around him.
Oh yeah, cold blood, ice lake, winter wrap up. And they laugh.
Winterzilla, pelt the child at it. Great idea, 10/10 you absolute psychopath.
Pinkie - when is Spike's birthday?
I don't know, neither does she apparantly.
Least she bribes him with gem food, that counts for something at least.
Fluttershy - bystander, not even all the kindness in the world can convince her to speak up about how shit Spike gets treated.
Oh yeah, he's not a pony.
Rainbow - quite literally teases him about how 'undragonlike' he is and overtly insults his wings and his demeanor to his face.
She never apologizes.
Applejack - nothing. Spike doesn't interact with her much, she's just a casual bystander. Not a friend, a friend wouldn't allow a child to be taken advantage of by an adult.
Rarity - Ha ha, where do I even start.
A literal predator who takes advantage of young children, the most prone one being the supposed son or pet of her own friend.
Does that sound remotely decent to you?
Remember that time Rarity manipulated Spike into giving her his birthday present, that was a Gem equivalent of 10 000 dollar wine
The same gem he had the patience to age for YEARS
And since he's a kid, guess what, that's about the equivalent of deleting a 5 year old's minecraft world that they worked on for 2 years.
Except, ha, this time? She can do so with no repercussions.
The same gem which she used to make a pendant which she never wore again
And essentially causing him to go on a greed rampage which is essentially also the reason he no longer gets gifts on his own birthday
He was a literal pincushion for one for one of the earlier episodes
This is what you portray as positive?
Gabby griffin...
Lemme rerun that for you if you can't remember.
I had hope there, Spike actually got a friend. A female griffin that TREATS HIM LIKE A Person. Not a slave, or a on site worker, or just abuses him. Fella actually got a real friend, Someone who he talks to and with and doesn't ignore how he feels
But Rarity, she wanted him to go with her to the gemcaves so he could carry the gems she finds.
Naturally he refuses, albeit in the most polite way I've ever seen, but she tries to do it herself. Unfortunately, without the young boyslave she manipulates frequently, she is entirely inadequate at simple hand eye Co ordination and breaks half the gems she harvests
So in 'turmoil' she visits purple nerd and asks about Spike. Then she finds out he is spending time with Gabby the griffin
And then she essentially WRECKS their relationship
After separating Spike from his only friend(or the only one around his age group who gives a single crap) , she tries to bribe his happiness by giving him the cheapest and smallest gems she could find, clearly generosity in motion.
Her bribes don't work, and eventually she HAS to admit her bullshit to Gabby after she realizes that Spike isn't going to snap out of his funk. However she apologies in a way that makes it appear that she actually cares about Spike, so she can use him as a slave for her own endeavors alter on. And gain some favor in his eyes.
Did I mention that she didn't fully admit everything?
So Gabby and Spike's friendship is still in high water. It's bearable high-water but very shaky compared to what it was.
Now you might glorify this as 'evidence' of love, somehow.
Meanwhile I'm looking at this and wondering how someone gets this obliviously nasty to isolate someone from their only friend then take advantage of their moment of weakness.
But the thing that really gets me going, the thing that really, really tickles me the wrong way?
No one stops her.
No one stops a grown ass woman from taking candy from a baby.
No one stops a grown ass woman from isolating a young boy.
No one stops a grown ass woman from taking advantage of a child.
But slave labor is okay if it isn't a pony, right?
It's okay if the child doesn't know he's being abused, it's okay if he says he's happy between the bursts of being taken advantage of for his utility.
It's okay if his entire sense of self revolves around how useful he is, it's okay for a child to worry about his utility, it's okay if he has no sense of direction other than servitude because that's all he's ever known.
But it's okay if he's conditioned to think that way, right?
Because Slavery and the Conditioning Houses weren't much different.
This is healthy? You like this? This is what you want for a child? You glorify this?
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Have you watched the episode where he is laughed at, as he a lizard and more then likely hot blooded, drowns? I used to think other wise but after that episode and watching more and more. How he is never truly given freedom to make a choice.
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cough cough sorry. I literally after I posted my question. i scrolled down and here this is. I just want to say I wholly agree with your entire and very respectful argument. For some people apparently not being a pony and pointing out obvious flaws in a show they love?
Further, How is that a show about friendship depends instead of understand. Complacency? To never ever ever ever challenge them? Because someone has to reflect?
I think everyone makes mistakes, and is it not the way of friendship and harmony to admit your mistakes and actually grow?
Apparently they can not handle the criticism. For me if you love something. You should be willing to critique and yes it is creepy that people do not see a child in such circumstances as slavery. It does make one wonder. What they think slavery is?
You know?
I also find it curious that people do not reference the cruelty of Rarity manipulating him. Its like are you really watching what I am watching.
So props for point that out and having the decency to say it!
ps. I just think I will add it must be especially real to work around everypony? That consistent ever present awareness of your own otherness to everyone else. It almost sounds like abuse and Systematic Racism?
Overall, this was a fascinating read.
Your interpretation of how Celestia came to have Spike’s egg is very interesting to say the least. It also generates some interesting ideas for sequels or other stories using this as continuity to how Celestia got his egg.
I would be interested to see some form of sequel or follow up to this idea because it’s got me wanting to see Spike learn the truth about what happened. And that will make for an interesting story and a stew of potential reactions.
Spike would likely feel confused, betrayed, broken, and above all, wrathful. He likely wouldn’t see any of the things he has had as real in contrast to what he could have had. He would never see Celestia the same ever again, no matter how much therapy or relationship mending is done. He would also feel like none of his accomplishments are for real since the idea of grappling with destiny tends to evoke this existential crisis. Lastly, I can see him wanting to have an “eye for an eye” so to speak. Which could lead him to either killing Celestia, or someone close to Celestia (i.e. the one Celestia killed his mother for: Luna).
Twilight is a mixed can of worms all herself. Would she support her old teacher’s actions? Would she take offense to any potential actions by Spike? Would she be beset by thoughts of how her family was just a mind game to keep Spike subservient and compliant with Celestia’s design?
Luna would be an interesting choice. I can actually see her being rightfully angry at her sister for her short sightedness. Presenting alternatives to have Spike’s egg still come to be in her possession while his mother would still be alive. Calling her out for her selfishness, maybe even questioning if Celestia did all she did out of what was right, or out of what she selfishly wanted. Ultimately, I can see Luna never trusting her sister again and even their relationship never being the same.
The rest of the Mane Six can vary (Applejack frothing, Fluttershy rightfully angry, Pinkie and Rarity shattered, & even Rainbow Dash feeling betrayed by her monarch). Thorax and Ember would likely be angered, and I doubt they would be the only ones. Cause what does it say if Celestia feels like she can just go into sovereign territories and states, proclaiming her authority and dispensing her own actions without punishment to the other world leaders? Cause it’s implied she never spoke with the Dragon Lord, the legitimate dragon ruler. And her subjects, they could never see her their “morally perfect” and “benevolent” ruler the same ever again.
In the end, Celestia has much to lose no matter how much she argues “for the greater good.”
Regardless, this is my opinion and outlook and you are the author of this mentally intriguing fanfic. If you follow up on this, all you. If not, happy with what we got. Otherwise, a good and bless day to you sir
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A sequel is in the works! But here's a hint: Things might not be as they seem.....
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Sequel in the works.
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Then I shall be waiting. And when it gets here, looking to see where things begin to unveil themselves.
A peaceful Equestria at the cost of Spike being subservient to ponies his whole life? That's a raw deal, right there.
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Ohhh ok cool can't wait for the drama
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Let's hope with that qoute, that means the tragedy here is more along lines of Nightmare Moon and Kung Fu Panda 3, Po's origins. That Spike's mother is still alive and merely somewhere else like what Starswirl did to the Dazzlings. At least then there's some damage control.
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What does that mean?
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Ohh well this is going to be very interesting
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This version of Celestia seems to have, at best, the maturity and insight of a teenager. You rightly pointed out that she didn't make a particularly persuasive case, and there had to be some other viable option in which the dragoness stays a part of Spike's life even if he is hatched and raised by ponies. It's possible that this was the only pathway, but based on how this Celestia acts, there's little evidence that she exhausted all other options or even considered them in the first place.
That said, if there really was no other choice, now that her glorious future has been achieved, she should submit to whatever punishment Spike, Ember, or anyone else with a claim demands of her. Do what you think is right, and pay your price for it.
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What's that supposed to mean? Anyway, I do want Spike, Ember, or even the Main Six and Luna will be SO PISSED at Celestia anyway. And their relationship will be forever scarred! 😡
Sappy story...very good.
Well it was a given Celestia was a killer among the many things she has done in a lifetime.
To bad 'I'm sorry' has never cut it as a apology.
The whole "Spike is a slave!!!" silliness has to die. Slaves can't leave whenever they want to explore the world. Calling Spike a slave is an insult to real world slavery as well as to Spike himself.
As for the story... not really feeling it. A major, major issue is how Celestia never asks the dragon her name. That seems like a minor thing, but remember that Celestia takes a great deal of care to know and cherish individuals. Yelling "Dragon! I have returned!" is something LUNA would do, not Celestia. It doesn't fit her at all. And that's indicative of how OOC Celestia is acting in order to create the drama.
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You know what would be an interesting twist? If she had actually gone to Torch and asked his permission, and he granted it. Because the dragons are not nice towards one another. Their society isn't built on cooperation but on getting ahead by stepping on the fellow above you.
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it's around 1000 years ago so, OOC is difficult to judge
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Damn, that's a direct insult to Spike's various suffering right there.
That's like telling a abuse victim that the possibility that their mother, who you view as 'perfect', hit them is 'silly'.
You know, despite the hot welt right above the arm.
Evidence...
Where's your evidence, no one seems to have any, instead the most common method is classic dismissal, gaslighting, ignorance or just plain trivilising of actual abuse.
Reminds me about what happened when some guy in the Fandom was fiddling kids, the general consensus was to trivialize it until it just couldn't be ignored.
What a surprise that you'd do the same here.
But you, you specifically don't seem to know much about slavery if you believe it was that rigid of a system.
Of course some slaves were allowed to go outside, to travel and run errands for their masters, do you know which ones?
The ones that completely accepted their servitude and the Encomienda system imposed upon them, the ones who were put through the Culture-Erasure Conditioning houses and literally could not function without reliance on their European masters.
Now look at Spike for more than 5 seconds, notice how completely incompatible he is with his own culture, see how absolutely subservient he is in pony culture, see how his entire self-worth is based off of how useful he is,
And if you can see all of that and still blatantly ignore the similarities, well boy, I really can't say anything else.