• Member Since 25th Feb, 2013
  • offline last seen Last Wednesday

Titanium Dragon

TD writes and reviews pony fanfiction, and has a serious RariJack addiction. Send help and/or ponies.


What should be done about Discord?

Fluttershy knows that’s the question that Princess Luna and Princess Celestia will be asking during their meeting about “the breezies” in the most secure room in all of Equestria.

Could she ever forgive herself if she condemned one of her friends to be imprisoned in stone for a thousand years? But if the fate of Equestria really is on the line, could she ever forgive herself if she doesn’t?

Set prior to the season 4 finale.

Chapters (1)
Comments ( 55 )

That's a lot of words. Luckily I have time on my hands.
*Puts on shades*
Let's do this.

I'm about a quarter of the way through, and I'm envious of how well you are able to create an interesting conversation between characters. I'll upvote for now and I'll probably favorite it once I've finished reading it.

The word document is exactly 10,000 words long. :rainbowdetermined2:

Alas, FIMFiction's odd word counting rules mean that it ends up several hundred words longer, so it isn't a nice, even number.

I'm glad you're enjoying it! That's the core of the story, so it had better be good if I'm doing my job. :twilightsmile:

It would be cool to see an aftermath conversation, after the finale.

I absolutely adore this :twilightsmile:

Glad to hear it! Always nice to hear it was enjoyed. :twilightsmile:

I'm glad to hear you'd like to see more, though I'm not sure if I'll ever visit that particular conversation in a story. I do have some plans for stories involving Luna and Celestia post-season 4, but they're more concerning Twilight, Cadance, and Shining Armor. But who knows, maybe I'll find a story where it would have a place. I do have an idea for a story about Celestia entrusting the rest of the mane six with more responsibility, but we shall see.

So, it is the fault of FlutterShy that Discord went after Tirek on a a solo-mission, thus allowing Tirek to pretend to be his friend and manipulating him into helping Tirek steal the magic of Equestria.

Well, you know what they say; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


My take on Discord is that he is chaotic neutral and emotionally immature:

He likes chaos. He does not intend to make life difficult for ponies, but that is a side effect. He is prone to emotional outbursts.

If he would have a lawful good friend influencing him, he could he a force for good. If somecentaur who is evil pretends to be his friend, he could be manipulated int extremely destructive acts, even if he refuses to kill and prevents the evil centaur from killing.

Given that he is emotionally immature, prone to outbursts, and easily manipulated by entities pretending to be his friend, it was a bad idea to send Discord solo against Tirek.

The Princesses should have paired him with a chaperone. They can tell him that the chaperone is his partner in case Tirek has the ability to drain Draconequi.

Although he trusts FlutterShy, the mission is to dangerous for her. The chaperone should be an AliCorn. The AliCorn should not be an Head of State, because her disappearance might cause panic. That eliminates Princesses Mi Amore Cadenza and Celestia. Because ponies are diurnal, Princess Luna could accompany Discord without her absence being noted.

Either Princess Twilight Sparkle or Princess Luna should have accompanied Discord.


He likes chaos. He does not intend to make life difficult for ponies, but that is a side effect. He is prone to emotional outbursts.

Sometimes, but he's also the spirit of Disharmony; sometimes he does, in fact, enjoy making life difficult for ponies. That being said, if he had more emotional connections to ponies... like most trolls, he doesn't like making the ones he cares about suffer, not really. A bit of teasing but not any real pain. If he cared about more ponies, he'd be more likely to want to control this aspect of his behavior.

Given that he is emotionally immature, prone to outbursts, and easily manipulated by entities pretending to be his friend, it was a bad idea to send Discord solo against Tirek.

No one knew he was easily manipulated by entities pretending to be his friend. Fluttershy's intentions toward him were good; she wasn't pretending to be his friend, she was genuinely trying as hard as she could to befriend him. It's understandable that Celestia didn't realize that Discord can't actually tell the difference between a sincere offer of friendship and an attempt at manipulation. In the past, it is likely that attempts to manipulate Discord with apparent friendship failed miserably, because Discord thought he didn't need or want friends; a thousand years in the loneliness of stone may have changed him, made him recognize that he is lonely.

Either Princess Twilight Sparkle or Princess Luna should have accompanied Discord.

This would indeed have been a much better idea. But I don't think Discord is dumb; in my story "Traitor", Celestia actually tried this, and Discord shot her down, seeing her attempt to pair him with Twilight as a vote of no confidence in his ability. (He didn't assume she thought he'd fall for Tirek; he assumed she thought he'd get distracted and fail to do the job, but it's the same thing.) So he manipulated Celestia into fearing for what would happen to Twilight if Tirek got her, while at the same time overplaying his own invulnerability. Celestia's a pony like any other; Discord used her love of Twilight to get what he wanted, a chance to prove himself on his own, and then he spectacularly failed that chance.

Although, now I want to see an AU where Twilight does accompany Discord. It would be fun to see the two of them working together on a project... kind of like your classic cop buddy show. She's a morally upright young Alicorn who plays by the rules! He's a rogue Draconequus who does things his own way! They fight crime!

It is entirely believable that Discord would play Celestia, and in any case, Discord was actually more than capable of dealing with Tirek; in all fairness to Celestia, she probably didn't think that Tirek would even be capable of manipulating Discord, given that Tirek himself had been unable to even keep his own brother on his side. When your track record is "everyone abandoned you because you're a jerk", people don't expect you to develop charisma - or expect you to have possessed it all along.

Discord was played because he didn't understand what friendship was; he saw it as something which benefited him, rather than as a two-way road.


I agree that Traitor is a good story exploring the motives, thought, and emotions of Discord.

To be completely honest, this story really confused me. :rainbowhuh: It almost seemed like Fluttershy didn't even care about Discord. She cares, we know that. And then the thing with the breezies thrown in--that in itself just made me stop and retread portions over again. Took me forever to finish this because I was still trying to understand what was going on. And the magic? I have absolutely no clue what that was about. :unsuresweetie: Maybe I'm just dumb? :fluttercry: I usually really get into these kind of a stories, with Fluttershy talking about Discord. But this one just left me confused and a bit upset over the emotions of the characters. None of them seemed. . . right. :applejackunsure:

It was still an amazing story. You have great writing skills, and just because I didn't get the meaning of this, I hope that doesn't bring your mood down. :scootangel:

I was warned that it might confuse people by my editors.

But did I remove the bit about the breezies at the end? Nooooo.

For the record: after the meeting, they weren't talking about the breezies; they were talking about Discord. That's why Fluttershy was calling herself stupid and noting that no one really cared about the breezies; Celestia was speaking of Fluttershy's defense of Discord. They were "speaking in code", as it were.

As for how Fluttershy feels, there's a reason she says she isn't his friend. I think you might want to look for "what kind of friend" and look at the text around there, as she explains why she doesn't feel like she is truly his friend.

I'm glad you enjoyed my writing, even if it was confusing; you might enjoy some of my more straightforward works, like The Stars Ascendant a bit more, if you haven't read that already. Temptation also takes a very close look at a character's thoughts and is also more straightforward than this story, if you're into shipping.

This is a very compact story, even if a 10,000 word one-shot is considered "long" by certain standards. The words that are there are used to great effect, and say far more than what is on the surface.

By the way, while there were parts that I did reread several times, I didn't mind doing so. I often speed read my way through fanfics, but this one I had to slow down and really absorb. Overall, it was a pleasure. :twilightsmile:

This story was something of an experiment with "thick writing"; I was deliberately trying to make it feel like it was a heavier read than a lot of other things I've written, and I tried to put a lot into it. It actually lost more than a thousand words in editing, so it actually got more compact rather than less compact in editing, which is usually a good thing.

I'm glad you found it a good, enjoyable read!

If you enjoyed this, you might also enjoy The Stars Ascendant, which also features a conversation between Luna and Celestia about important things.

Trust by Bad Horse is another really great story, if you haven't read it already, which also features Celestia, and which also deals with the burden of responsibility.

We wish to know whether you believe he is making progress, or if we need to retrieve the Elements from the Tree of Harmony to once more return him to stone."

It seems I found a contradiction. Why would she say this if they both said that taking the Elements out of the tree would be out of the question? It happens once again here:

"How? When will he strike? We must send a letter to Twilight to bid her to fetch the Elements at once!"

Now, one could easily assume that the reason for the contradiction is statements is because it is implicit they would only use it if they are in dire need of them, but wouldn't that be counterproductive in the long run? I don't know.

Anyway, the story overall was very, very interesting. It's like The Stars Ascendant except with Fluttershy. You do a very good job of taking unresolved conflicts within the show (I would call this one, since it was just glazed over in those episodes). Besides that, I really don't have much to say about the story. It's just . . . solid. Once again, I find a story that is hard to make any comment on besides it being good because there isn't anything in here that really is worth discussing. It's all been discussed in the story.

Keep on being awesome, my friend!

Well, you more or less got the gist of it; only if the situation was dire would they risk removing the Elements from the Tree, or at least that was the idea behind it.

I'm glad you enjoyed my story (again) and that the story mostly covered its own bases.

Now to write like four more Luna and Celestia stories. I now have two in editing and two outlined. :pinkiecrazy:

But next up is probably me returning to my roots and writing a shipfic. Or more accurately, finishing the story I started writing before Crepes. :trixieshiftright:

And I'm over here, with my stories waiting to be either written or finished. I wish I was as dedicated to writing as some on this site. XD

Well, I have a set of short stories that will be published after the write-off judging has ended. So that will definitely be going up Sunday, barring me going crazy and deciding I need to heavily edit any of them. So most likely THAT will actually be the next thing I publish, unless I finish this story (which I'm guessing will clock in around 10-14k words) in the interim, which is, I think, unlikely (but not impossible; I've been known to write 6k words in a day).

But those stories have already been written; it is just that no one knows which ones are mine.

I'm looking forward to it! Also, another thing that I forgot to mention: semicolons. There are A LOT of them. While semicolons are useful punctuation, in bulk they become distracting and annoying in many instances. I'd tone down the usage of them. They should be used sparingly. Especially in this case. :rainbowlaugh: I've never seen someone use so many in a story. Your sentences hold more power if they have periods anyway.

Unless you were using them for a legitimate reason. Unfortunately, I don't see one here.

Lemme give you the feedback I got on my semicolon use in this story from my editors:

-Why do you like semicolons so much?

-You use so many semicolons.

-So many semicolons.

The sheer number of times you use semicolons rustles my jimmies for some reason. :P

You use so many semicolons.

I was going to disagree, because they didn't bother me. But I counted:

F's Night Out: 1 in 7200 words
Burning Man Brony: 10 in 9400 words
Moments: 10 in 11,000 words
D&Magician: 25 in 14,000 words
This story: 108 in 11,000 words

I will note that there are now only 105 semicolons in the piece... and it is more than a thousand words shorter than it was, so the semicolon density actually went up during editing. :rainbowderp: I used about 4-5x the average density of semicolons in this piece.

The primary reason for this is Fluttershy's thought process. I used semicolons in a lot of Fluttershy's thoughts, the reason being that I see Fluttershy as being very self-correcting; when she notices that Celestia is towering over her, and making her feel small, she immediately amends that thought with the idea that Celestia isn't doing it on purpose. Even in her own head, she doesn't want to be mean, or sound like she is slighting someone, even though she isn't.

I think that this ended up getting carried over to the descriptions.

It doesn't help that I think of Luna and Celestia as using a lot of semicolons in their speech, which ended up further increasing the numbers.

I also tend to find that semicolons, because they make sentences feel bulkier, make a story feel denser, so I may have been subconsciously using them frequently for that reason as well.

I also really, really love semicolons, though not all of my stories have so many of them; The Legend of Falling Rocks, Buffalo Brave boasts a mere 3 in 3k words. This story, with 105 in 10k words, has literally ten times as many semicolons per unit text (though Falling Rocks has an unusually low semicolon density).

I think the real issue is repetitive sentence structure more than anything else; there were a few points where I used semicolons in adjacent sentences, and the sentences were either too similar, or the text was repetitive and the semicolons drew attention to the repetition. I actually just went back through and removed a few issues that I found; were there any spots that you remember bothering you off the top of your head? Or was it just a general issue?

Well, I noticed extensive use of commas, so much so that many were comma splices, but if semicolons were for a reason, I know that commas must be.

It's rare for me to read a story that slots into the show so perfectly that I feel it must have happened, even though we never saw it.
Awesome, awesome story.

Amazing, all those things that the writers left out. Shame on them. Good thing we're here to shed light on things, eh? :raritywink:

I'm glad you enjoyed it. :heart:

That was... intense :twilightoops:. Have a like, a fav, a ribbon, and a feature recommendation

And disregard that addition to the adventure folder. Y tu fat fingers :facehoof:

Oh, wow, thank you for the feature rec! :twilightsmile:

I'm glad you've been enjoying my stories.

You are quire welcome. I am glad that you are writing enjoyable stories :raritywink:

This was an extremely good read. Your characterizations of Fluttershy and the Princesses are really well done; I've noticed Fluttershy, in particular, is hard to get "real", with her combination of often unreasonable shyness, kindness and quiet strength. She's wiser than she seems to allow for herself. The whole story fit nicely in place, giving a plausible and believable reason for Celestia and Luna to trust Discord in the finale.

Also, semicolons are possibly my favorite punctuation; I tend to indulge in them overmuch. So take heart that you're not the only one! :twilightblush:

Yeah, its kind of funny; a lot of folks are totally okay with the semicolons, but a few people are really bugged by the fact that I use them about four times as often as normal people do in this story. I think it might just be that there are a few sections where it is especially noticeable.

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

You might also enjoy The Stars Ascendant, if you haven't read it already; it also focuses very heavily on Luna and Celestia.

Holy crap, this was beautiful. Deep, thoughtful, had me jumping back and forth trying to comprehend everything, and feeling a wave of understanding and awe as I finally did. This story deserves every upvote and fave it's earned, and far more.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. That was the feeling I was going for with the story; that it had some sort of real significance to it, that it was actually meaty and no fleeting thing. I'm glad it worked so well for you.

I gotta admit that, when I wrote this, I was hoping it would recieve the same sort of response as The Stars Ascendant did, but I then realized afterwards that that was a wholly unreasonable and unrealistic expectation. :twilightblush:

Incidentally, I thought I recognized your name; I read your only story a while ago and enjoyed it, and was a bit sad today to see you haven't written anything else since.

Not that I'm, you know, implying anything with that observation. Just, you know, observing. With italics.

Hint hint. :trixieshiftright:

Oh, um, yeah, about that. I've been writing, err, trying to write. it's just kind of difficult deciding where you want to go and wondering how you'll be on par with the last piece of work your produced and other writing stuff. Don't worry though, I'm trying my best to- heylookamoose


Well, it took me a very a long time to read the finished version. Reads pretty similarly, but the prose and dialogue are definitely are a lot tidier towards the beginning and middle than I remember. I still really love this characterization for Discord, that he wasn't really friends with any of them, and and he and Fluttershy both knew it. And also that he knew all along that he would eventually betray them, but was lonely and didn't really want to. It fits well into canon and adds a very believable extra dimension to his character, at least up to the last season finale. I also still think this fic goes on a little longer than it should and that the resolution would have been much stronger if it had ended a few paragraphs sooner. But your fic, your call.

I'm a little disappointed this didn't get more attention, though. It's quite good.

Semicolons make me feel like vomiting.

I'm glad that you found it to read more cleanly, and that you enjoyed my ideas as far as Discord went here. I'm rather fond of the story, too, and I was quite disappointed it did not fare better in the wilds of FIMFiction, but alas, such is life. I actually sent it to Equestria Daily a while back, and they gave me some feedback:

-Avoid use of comma splices
-Watch out for “talking heads”; some scenes have too much dialogue without a break to describe how the characters move or what’s happening in the surroundings.
-Fluttershy mentions loneliness as the reason for Discord’s behavior, and sounds less sure of her theory the second time than the first.
-The discussion with the princesses gets a little redundant.

Thematically, the story is good, and the characters are well written. Do a little polishing and it should be postable.

I would like to fix it so that it could go up there and get some more eyes on it, but we shall see, I suppose (and I have another story, We Can't Turn Back Time, which has less wrong with it according to them, so I'm planning on fixing that first).

I always have these grand visions for things I would like to do, but I don't always carry through on them, so we shall see. Still, it would be a pity to simply disregard their feedback utterly when they were nice enough to give feedback when they don't have to anymore.

Your editing (and the feedback of others) was a big help with polishing the story, and it wouldn't flow nearly as well as it does without the help you gave me.

This felt almost like a character study of Fluttershy, and I wholly approve. I've always considered Fluttershy one of the hardest of the Mane 6 to write for, but you managed it quite well.

I also approve of Celestia. I usually see her unintentionally written in a way that is frustratingly incompetent, but here she was respectable. And while I've never approved of the diplomatic 'snow queen' manner she puts on 95% of the time, you give a sense of purpose and unintended habit to it that I really like as a characterization.

Luna was just her usual Best Pony self. Not a thing to complain about with her.

The only annoying thing is that this probably leads to Celestia's colossal mistakes of "Twilight's Kingdom," which I continue to bemoan. Still, at least you gave it a plausible background reason.

I'm glad you found the characterization of Celestia and Fluttershy here believable; I really liked writing about them, and while the piece is an exploration of Fluttershy's character, it is meant to explore Celestia's character as well from a different view, and I liked the overall shape of the piece.

I really need to get on top of writing a couple other stories in this vein; I have a Luna-centric story, No One Will Notice, which is about Twilight asking Luna if she can borrow the Moon to practice on because, well, no one will notice; that one focuses on Luna, Celestia, and Twilight, and like this one is intended to slot into canon (in that case, prior to the season 4 premier). I also have another one which is Celestia-focused, Moving Heaven and Earth, which is set after season 4 and is about Celestia helping Twilight (and Cadance) practice moving the Sun and the Moon so that if something happens to Luna and Celestia... again... the day/night cycle will go on. But there are other reasons for wanting Twilight's company as well (and no, it isn't a shipfic, which I'm sure will terribly disappoint the Twilestia shippers. Not that I won't have published a Twilestia story before then, as I have one of those nearly done, too...).

Ah well. We'll see.

Anyway, thank you for the praise and feedback, I appreciate it. :twilightsmile:

No one will notice? Ouch. I think I'd really like that one in particular.

As a rule (and means of keeping control), I only permit one story per author in my RiL, but I look forward to reading more of yours.

Thanks, that's always nice to hear. :twilightsmile:

I probably should follow a rule like that. It would keep my Read it Later list from being four digits worth of stories. :unsuresweetie:

I do have my RIL - Recommended list, which is SUPPOSED to be for stories which I'm supposed to read NEXT, but it has gotten rather unwieldy as well. I may end up making a third shelf for "next in line" which I enforce a five story rule on.

And then will promptly break, knowing myself. :facehoof:

RereAd, still a perfect fluttershy

Always flattering to hear. Thank you! :twilightsmile:

That ending. I love it.

While reading I was expecting the story to fizzle out at the end, but it picked back up and really hit it home.

I was trying to tie environmental descriptions and motifs into the emotional core of the plot, and it is always nice to hear that the ending worked.

5574808 I can tell. I'll have to utilise that myself some time.

Probably the best Fluttershy story I've read. Very nice.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

Fluttershy is an interesting character to write.

Have no idea if it's been said yet, but the choice of the breezies as an analogy for anything is stupid.

It is not a case of fear or paranoia. Literally everything in Equestria can kill these things. There is exactly one natural process they can be involved in without dying, and even then they need a delicate, engineered balance to survive!

For comparison, let us say there was a planet where the floor was lava, the air was sulfuric acid, every molecule was a razor blade and 99% of all living things wanted to stab you. According to this story, you are then called a gutless coward for never visiting.

A minor thing to harp on, I know, but it just really stuck out. The breezies aren't cowards, they're china in a bull shop.

This story was very nice, I really liked the discussión with Luna and Celestia and in general, Fluttershy caracterization; though, after this:

Uhm... I was wondering. That room had a lot of magic, and even though I'm outside, it doesn't feel right." She licked her lips nervously. "I was wondering, does it...?" She trailed off, unable to complete her thought. Fluttershy didn't know anything about magic, not really. If only Twilight was here, then maybe she could ask the question right, and not sound silly. Her eyes slid off of Celestia's face, focusing on the grass between her hooves.

I don't get what it's happening at all. I tried reading it again, but I still can't understand what they are talking about or what that end it's supposed to mean. Maybe I'm just being dense, I infer that has something to be with the "burden" of the responsability but... just, don't :rainbowhuh:

Yeah, so, also, you may noticed I'm in a frenzy of commenting your stories; it's just that I tend to read by author and while I always had know you by your comments and your reviews, I recently discovered ¡gasp! that you are also an pretty wicked author with a lot of fics so... :rainbowkiss:

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