- Member Since 11th Oct, 2013
- offline last seen 10 hours ago
alarajrogers
Okay, I admit it, I'm probably not your mom. But odds are I'm old enough to be. Now with Patreon account (under alarajrogers) and short stories on Amazon (under Alara Rogers).
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I think you are spot-on with Spike's personality, including his intelligence and skills. Too often, he gets played for laughs simply because he's younger than the others, but Spike is a dragon, and a very well-educated one too. Being innocent is not the same as being foolish.
Also spot-on about Celestia's reaction to the news.
My God...those feels...
Yes! Shit's going down! I'm so hype for the next chapter!
Damn right. Always down for a good rescue mission.
Omg, when I read the part about twilight writing to fluttershy, my jaw dropped. I read that story and the one previous to this one, but I didn't know you wrote them both!
pure awesomeness.
Powerful.
You don't need to apologize, it gets the mood across, also you only need to apologize when it does nothing for the story except expand it's word count.
I know this most likely will not end well, but I hope to God you give a happy ending or at lest bring them all back alive.
I wonder what will happen when this reality Twilight meets the other one. Even as the other Twilight is the least changed, the difference between the two is enormous. Will they somehow be able to compromise, could she persuade her that it's not their Discord?
As she became one with Order she must be at least thinking rationally enough ( even though she hates Discord personally) to attempt diplomacy of some sort.
After all, he isn't the one that did those things, and on a personal note i find it somewhat unlikely that the alternate Twilight didn't beyond a shadow of the doubt confirm he was their Discord after all.
The reaction of the rest of the Mane six is the part i am quite looking forward to reading as well.
And of course, just can't wait to see how will Discord react upon seeing the 'original' Fluttershy. Mind is a hard thing to break, but even harder to glue together.
As always, great writing, hope for an update soon.
3791757
Order Twilight is quite rational, but what she wants is totally incompatible with what the Mane 6 from the core universe want, so diplomacy really isn't possible. She knows he's not the same Discord as the one from her universe (or at least, strongly suspects it) and she doesn't care. She's not motivated by revenge. She *is*, in part, motivated by a strong revulsion toward Discord that is comprised of what his cognate did to her world plus her bond to Order, but that isn't why she's torturing him; that's why she can morally justify torturing him, but her actual reason for doing it is that the alternate Discord, and then his death, actually did a lot of damage to her world, and she wants to use this Discord to fix it. It's irrelevant that he wasn't the one who did the damage, because she believes that any and all Chaos avatars would necessarily be evil, and that evil beings can ethically be sacrificed for the benefit of the majority, who are good. She's been giving convicted criminals to Pinkie Pie to murder so Pinkie won't target "good" ponies. She doesn't have a moral problem with torturing an avatar of Chaos who really did show up and disrupt things in Canterlot and Manehattan for a couple of days, if the goal to be accomplished is a "good" one, and what she's trying to do with him is to find a way to use magic to undo entropy. Entropy, often confused with chaos, is the tendency toward disorder that leads to decay, and it's directly responsible for aging and death; she believes her experiments with Discord may lead her to a triumphant breakthrough that may allow all ponies to be immortal. Also, she wants to use him as a tool to protect Equestria, given that the year of chaos that the other one caused left Equestria in such bad shape.
I wouldn't actually call her the least changed. In some ways she is the second most changed, after Pinkie. Fluttercruel despises herself for what she's become, and Rarity, Applejack and Rainbow Dash would all deny that they've actually changed at all (though they can easily point out the ways the others changed), but both Twilight and Pinkie have completely lost their original internal moral compass. Alternate Pinkie is essentially the Joker, except what if the Joker was a serial killer whose public face was of a likeable, fun person, not a guy who's just terrifying all the time. And Order Twilight has become so rigidly judgemental that she is willing to cause worse harm to her enemies than they ever caused to her because they are "evil" and she is "good" and she seeks to accomplish something for the benefit of all Equestria so the ends justify the means.
Our Mane 6 retain their moral compass, recognize that torture is evil and wrong no matter why you do it or who you do it to, and want to rescue Discord because he's suffering. Order Twilight wants to use him, and what she wants to use him for necessitates torturing him. They can't compromise here.
As for confirming whether or not Discord is "their" Discord or not... up until now, Order Twilight didn't care. There was no reason to believe that any version of Discord could call on anyone for help, and because his guilt or innocence isn't relevant as long as he's Discord, she doesn't honestly care whether he is the other one resurrected or a completely different one. So she didn't bother to confirm her suspicions because they weren't actually relevant. Now that she has evidence that Discord has just attempted to call someone for help, *now* it's going to be relevant.
Alright, let's go kick some evil-cognate flank
...But, of course, nothing is as easy as you think, and few, if any, plans survive first contact with the enemy.
They also kinda need some way to tell themselves apart from the Opposition girls so, you know, they don't end up with a spy in their midst...
Enjoying this a lot, though I feel Spike is being a tad Blasé about the entire situation. I feel like having read what Discord wrote and what he wrote it with, he'd be a tad more grim/perturbed with the whole situation, rather than his energetic and playful self. But he is a kid so maybe not.
Anyway, looking forward to more!
I wonder about what Discord feels for Fluttershy now.
On the one hand, he's being horribly tortured -- including sexually -- by Fluttershy's evil analogue. On the other hand, he seems to be holding on to the love of the good Fluttershy as something to keep him sane. And on the gripping hand, it does seem interesting that the Evil Six are using Fluttercruel in particular to try to induce Stockholm Syndrome -- I may have missed this but was one of the things they forced Discord to tell them that he likes his own world's Fluttershy?
I'd say that there's a considerable danger that Discord might by now be crazy enough to turn on the good Mane Six when they come to rescue him, especially Fluttershy. I also think that his feelings for the good Fluttershy might be badly damaged, because looking at her would remind him of his sufferings. Or ... maybe not ... he actually seems to be trying hard to resist identifying the two Fluttershys as the same being. Maybe he's aware of and consciously fighting this danger?
Anyway, very good story.
3895827
Discord's aware of and consciously fighting this danger -- the avatar of disharmony knows a lot about breaking minds and the techniques used to do it. It's one of his areas of primary expertise, in canon. That's why he gave Fluttercruel a different name and why he explicitly mentioned in his letter that he knows better than to let himself pretend she is Fluttershy, but he's hurt so badly that he's doing it anyway. The question is, he knows about it and he's fighting it but is that going to be enough? Knowing why you feel a conditioned response doesn't necessarily protect you from feeling it, after all, and Discord's not great at controlling or overcoming his own emotions. (In fact I'd argue he never does that; he can channel his emotions into weird directions that ponies don't expect and that more mentally normal people wouldn't go in, but he's pretty open about being more or less entirely a creature of emotion, not reason. The fact that he's very intelligent just makes him really good at rationalizing.)
The Opposition Six do not know at this time that Discord likes Harmony's Fluttershy. (He has never admitted to them that he comes from a different universe and doesn't even know that they know this.) However, they are using Fluttercruel to induce Stockholm Syndrome and they have reasons of their own why they think this will work, that have nothing to do specifically with this version of Discord and more to do with their history with their own version.
3895019
I can see your point, but I think Spike, being a kid and also a frequent sidekick on heroic adventures, deals with horrible things by focusing on trying to change them. He's putting his mental energy into the idea of helping to rescue Discord rather than letting himself dwell on the horrors detailed in the letter, now that he has that opportunity.
3897494
Huh. I actually really like that reasoning. Though I feel that with that he'd be a little more focused, rather than getting pulled into Rarity's charms as he was, but still, that explanation makes it feel a lot better to me.
One guestion: How is it possible you don't have more followers?
And: WHEN IS THE NEXT PART COMING? I NEED TO KNOW!
3929609
A day or two.
alright when new chapter tell me please
3949464
Now.
Good God, no wonder Opposition-Twilight's gone completely mad. And her friends are all still warped by their dimension's Discord. She must feel totally betrayed and let down by everyone. I find her change of morality thoroughly believable under these sorts of hammerblows.
And in this world, Chrysalis is the lesser evil.
Pretty well done Dystopic Equestria here. I can see that it's just a few more stumbles of leadership from turning into open tyranny or collapsing into complete anarchy, and it's understandable how it could have happened.
Yep, the other Spike is probably going to die. Maybe both of them, which I dread as much as Discord's future.
3952845
Maybe not. It's pretty likely Chrysalis took the opportunity and killed Cadance.
3953700
Oh, that's a good point. Ok, now it's even worse -- I'd call Shining completely broken, then.
3953700
:-) You noticed that, hmm?
Order Twilight, lacking Alicorn Twilight's experience of Chrysalis being a known supervillain, knows that Discord didn't do it because killing ponies isn't his style, but is willing to blame Nightmare Moon instead because she doesn't realize how evil and ruthless Chrysalis can be. She knows Chrysalis as an ally -- a dangerous, unpredictable ally, but an ally nonetheless. But yes. It was Chrysalis. Nightmare Moon wouldn't have had to kill Cadance, who was her niece and significantly less powerful than her. She may have wanted her sister dead, but she wanted to recruit Cadance and the Mane 6 to prove she was better than her sister. Order Twilight loves Celestia obsessively enough that she has a much darker mental image of Nightmare Moon than was warranted (not that Nightmare Moon wasn't evil, but she wasn't unilaterally evil.)
(To be fair I am not sure Cadance is dead -- Cadance may have been captured and brainwashed into casting love spells on ponies so that Changelings can feed -- but I am not sure we're ever going to find out one way or the other.)
3953762
Not completely. He genuinely believes Discord killed Cadance; he's not knowingly shacking up with the being who killed his lover. Chrysalis doesn't need to fully mind control him, because he's willingly giving her his love for Cadance in exchange for her pretending to be Cadance. Since Chrysalis is an "ally", Shining Armor is of more use to her as a competent captain of the Guard than as a wholly mind controlled slave, and when ponies give their love willingly it's richer and more powerful than when Changelings take it by force, in my headcanon.
3952845
The thing that's really disturbing about this universe is that no one started out inherently any different. This didn't start out a Crapsack Universe or an Evil Goateed Universe. It's not even one of the ones Discord was complaining about where his cognate is wholly evil. All of this is the result of the alternate Discord's actions, and the alternate DIscord isn't significantly different from this one. He noticed something "our" Discord missed and didn't get put back in stone at the end of Return to Harmony, which gave him a lot more opportunity to screw everything up. By messing with the Mane 6 so they couldn't turn him back to stone, and turning Luna into Nightmare Moon so that he could get some really entertaining multi-sided fights going and keep Celestia and Luna from working together to stop him, he essentially destroyed Equestria as we knew it, not because he was mustachio-twirling Ultimate Evil but because he was thoughtless, malicious and selfish and cared more about his personal entertainment quotient than anything else. Which is exactly where "our" Discord would be if not for Fluttershy. One of the things I intend to do is force "our" Discord to recognize that under the same circumstances and with the same opportunities, he would have made the same choices. Which still doesn't mean he deserves what's happening to him, but he's not nearly as innocent as he wants to believe he is.
3954240
A good example of Character not being Destiny, which is a disturbing thought to anyone who has any happiness in their lives. I was at a point in my life around 10-14 years ago in which I made self-destructively bad choices: one more bad choice and I'd not have lived as long as I have. One different choice and I wouldn't have met my wife, and without her I doubt I'd be anywhere near as happy as I am now. I am realistic about this: I probably would have had a girlfriend or even a wife, but I was very fortunate to meet the woman I did, considering what a poor prospect I was at the time.
The fight against Discord was a particularly chaotic nexus point in the MLP:FIM timeline, where very tiny different choices could have had huge consquences, because of Discord's levels of power and insanity. This is even more true than any of the other 3-4 similar major battles the Mane Six have been in (Nightmare Moon, the Canterlot Wedding, the Crystal Empire or the Plunder Seeds) because in those there were reserve forces and self-correcting factors (Nightmare Moon might have relented even if victorious, or been beaten by Celestia; Chrysalis was punching out of her weight and getting lucky; Sombra's strength was limited by his long exile and he might have been defeated without the Crystal Heart; and the Plunder Seeds were dangerous but not highly intelligent). That is I think why so much fanfic gets written about different outcomes to that particular encounter.
Which is exactly why the Age of Discord sucked for everypony else -- he presumably did that sort of thing again and again just for fun.
Regarding Opposition-Shining Armor: given what you're saying, he may not be as broken as I first assumed. He'd be pretty horrified, I imagine, if he knew Chrysalis' role in Cadance's downfall.
Heck, given his personality, by now he probably loves Chrysalis (deeply, I mean, not just enough for her purposes). Knowing Chrysalis, I have my doubts regarding the mutuality of the emotion.
3954197
I feel horribly sorry for Opposition-Twilight, because from what you say she hasn't actually been Discorded into feeling this way. This means that what we're seeing is Twilight's loveable idealism after it has reacted to utterly-horrible events: Celestia broken, Luna dead, her friends all turned into parodies of themselves, Cadance dead (or missing) and Shining Armor in Twilight's mind having fallen from his pedestal. Twilight's ideals have been twisted into something cold and ruthless. She's either gone or is going slowly insane, and the way you describe it I don't know if she can ever come back from her current condition. And of course, being Twilight, she's a horrible menace to anyone or anything she sees as standing in her way.
3955216
Twilight hasn't been Discorded into feeling this way, but her feelings aren't all natural Twilight either; she's been the opposite of discorded in a sense. Twilight took on the Diadem of Order in order to match the requirements of the Elements of Opposition so she could harmonize with them, because Magic is Chaos and Order is its opposite. The Diadem of Order is a fragment of the destroyed Order Avatar. So Twilight's done this to herself, but it isn't quite all her -- without the influence of the Diadem, Twilight would probably actually be working to free her friends from Opposition, because none of them are better off that way, and she would be getting along a lot better with Spike. (She is having problems with Spike because she has turned rigid, judgemental and even more overbearingly perfectionist, and Spike was raised by the old Twilight -- he can't match up to the demands of the new Twilight, who's emotionally abusive anyway.)
On the other hand, Twilight is no more likely to resist the Diadem than Discord was to turn down taking on the role of the Chaos Avatar (it was a choice; he was once simply an extremely powerful chaos mage.) Twilight was chosen by Harmony precisely because she craves order and control so badly, but wields such incredible magic; she has always been chaos controlled by order, which is harmony. Her personality leans strongly toward Order. She won't willingly reject the Diadem, ever, not even to save her friends from Opposition, even though it is literally killing Fluttershy. (We mostly see Fluttercruel from Discord's perspective, and he's not real likely to have a lot of sympathy, but I've been trying to drop hints that Fluttercruel hates what she's become so much she occasionally feels suicidal over it.) In a world where her friends are monsters, she no longer gets along with Spike, she sees her family as devalued, and her beloved mentor has to lean on her rather than the other way around, the Diadem's ability to mute Twilight's emotions, give her confidence and strength, and let her make the ends justify the means, is pretty much all she has left. So yeah. It's unlikely she will ever willingly come back; she'd have to be separated from the Diadem by force, and who has the power to force Twilight to do anything?
I can not believe how much this story reminds me of me. Let's say that Discord is me in this situation and I am me in our real world. And that the evil mane 6 are the rest of the world, whipping me until I am obedient to be just like one of them. And if I give in I wouldn't be me any more. I'll just be one of the mindless robots who blindly follow the Order of this world. And I send a cry for help but no one answers. I am amassed by this. First my personality is very similar to Discords' in every way and this story describes my everyday life so perfectly I am just left speachless. THIS IS AN AMASSING STORY and if it means anything to you I would like to thank you. But yet I have to ask: Where did you get the idea to write a story like this and that includes your previous one "Discord in Hell"? Please reply.
3960497
I also have a lot of experience with the ways the world tries to grind everyone down until we are all exactly the same. I am probably more like Twilight than like Discord in real life, except that I was always much more of an iconoclast who couldn't comprehend why we did things a certain way and why they couldn't be different -- imagine Twilight with her same personality but an affinity for Chaos rather than Order. I had no friends, not because I was working too hard to make any, but because no one wanted to be my friend because I was too weird. So I have a lot of personal reasons to sympathize with the characters who want to turn the world upside down or the characters who have no friends or fear that they don't.
Maybe because of this I have an obsession with making my favorite characters face something that is trying to break them, and watching them resist. In particular I like to do this to villains because it feels cheap to do it to heroes; everyone's going to sympathize with a hero, but there are a lot of stories that make it clear there are many fans who want to hurt and break villains, so I do it in a way that evokes sympathy as a way of kind of fighting back against the knee jerk "yeah, wouldn't it be great to torture this character I hate" thing that fans do to villains. (They're usually reformed villains or sympathetic villains, admittedly, but I've done it to out and out unrepentant bad guys, too.)
I'd read a story which was actually written by a fan of Discord who liked the character a lot, but seemed to have a spanking fetish that allowed her to perceive "beating a grown adult for being irresponsible" as an acceptable and even loving thing to do, which it is not. I'd also read a story where Rainbow Dash was imprisoned in a basement being tortured and broken into being a sex slave, and later in the same series, Discord was placed under an obedience spell. those things all kind of merged together to make "Discord in Hell" and then people started begging for a sequel where he gets rescued so that's where the rest of it comes from.
3960613
I know how you feel about the real world (or well our world) I went and I am still going though this. I really have no friends, no one wants to be my friend cause I'm interested in something no one else would even consider. I listen to rap and they to metal or something like that and no one wants to give a chandelier to the other. I just have two girls who call me their friend but to be honest I am just with them so I wouldn't feel like a total piece of crap. Just so ya know you're the first person I told this. I think that this story is amassing and they you should just continue writing. You make me smile and cry and I am thankful for it. I never really paid much attention on the way that the story was written but the message that the story was giving to the reader. Thank you for beating the way you are, sincerely your Melody Shadow Fireheart!!!
Fluttershy, you're being scary again. Oh, and you left out the part where she grins wickedly.
4003424
She's actually too upset even to grin evilly right now. Maybe if their plan actually succeeds, but right now she's in full Righteous Fury mode.
3960613
You mind giving me all the examples? And when's the next chapter come out?
4003660
Check out my fanfiction.net account -- it's also under the name AlaraJRogers.
I have tormented, on various occasions, Q, Magneto from X-Men, Scorpius from Farscape, and Berg Katse from Gatchaman. Most of my stuff is available there.
In terms of percentages, (ex:10%) how close is the next chapter to this fanfic to being completed?
3954240
Actually, I disagree with that. The fact that it's an alternate universe doesn't mean that "our" Discord would have done the same in his stead. That's what makes him an alternate from the dead one.
Also, I pretty much just call Opposition Applejack Applebitch in my head, and am currently devising horrific ways for her to die as a result of her appraently enjoying torturing Discord for no reason other than that she can. Ditto Flutterasshole.
4013502
Yes, but I'm the writer. :-)
We don't know what "our" Discord would have done in the place of the dead one, because he was never in that position. We know there are some very minor differences in the choices they made that have nothing to do with morality, which led to the opportunity to make choices with very different moral values. "Our" Discord identified the artifact known in Opposition-verse as the "Hammer of Celestia" before he fell to the Elements of Harmony the first time, and got rid of it; Opposition-verse Discord identified that the Elements were working properly and were going to turn him into stone if he allowed it about forty five seconds earlier than "our" Discord did, allowing him to flee, regroup, and come back later with the plan that resulted in the Elements of Opposition being created. Aside from those two different choices, we cannot know that either of them would have done anything differently from the other... but, word of God from the creator of this continuity here, the answer's no. They're fundamentally the same guy who had slightly different opportunities, which ended up transforming into radically different life paths.
I am a big fan of Discord, but I don't believe in whitewashing him. My version of Discord is not, as he put it, "the guy who thinks torture and genocide is a great way to spend a Saturday night"; he's not the dick from Pony POV, he's not a rapist, he's not the guy from the Discordantly comic. He could never have accurately been called a tyrant (you kind of have to actually rule something to be a tyrant; Discord's Equestria was more like the line from Dr. Horrible, "Anarchy, That I Run"); he didn't kill anyone in order to take over Equestria, in fact he's only ever killed in war or self defense. On the other hand, when he has killed in war or self defense, he's done so in deliberately sadistic and terrifying ways intended to demoralize the survivors. We've seen him gloat at Celestia after she was captured by his plunder vines, and refuse to directly aid her, after being reformed (Vines); we've seen him plot to sabotage the birth control of every mare in Ponyville because foals are chaotic, including most of his supposed friends, with the exception of the one he doesn't want to have to share with a husband or a foal (Detente), and the only reason he tabled the plan was that Zecora gave him a warning about this whole thing happening in his future (which he didn't interpret correctly, or he wouldn't be here, but he did at least start thinking about the concept of chaos compatible with friendship.) He's not nice. Given the opportunity he could do some very dark things. He has, in the past.
He wants very much to believe that the other version of him was an Eviiiil Cognate, a mustachio-twirling demon he doesn't have to see any commonality with, because his sanity depends on believing he doesn't deserve what's happening to him. The problem is that his premise is faulty. He doesn't deserve what's happening to him, but neither would his cognate have, because no one could possibly deserve what's happening to Discord right now; this doesn't make him as completely innocent as he wants to believe he is. No, he never did any of these terrible things, but he never had a chance to. That's part of the point to this, to make him confront the consequences of his behavior and lifestyle beyond "nopony will be your friend if you're mean", and recognize not just that his former behavior wasn't a good idea if he wants friends, but that it was actually wrong, and could have resulted in consequences that the person he is now would find horrifying.
Any reason why you haven't told me when the next chapter comes out? Don't worry, I'm not mad.
4031404
Because I have no idea.
All those folks that say "I'm going to write a chapter a week" or "I should have the next chapter out on Tuesday" or whatnot? I have no idea how they do that.
4031410 How about how close the next chapter is to being completed? Can you tell me that?
3932688 Wait, I thought that you said you had no idea when new chapters came out!
Man you have got to update this story!
Well that was a bit ... unsettling.
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Discord was so close in his escape and his release from the pain at the end. Death would have been a blessing from
livingenduring this torment. Either Fluttercruel might regret her actions towards Discord deep down or she is just afraid of how Twilight would react.When you consider the logic he was thinking, which is odd for the spirit of disharmony, why does this world's Spike put up with these cruel ponies in spite of their actions and behavior?
Twilight is an all powerful alicorn now so the Mane six and Spike should have an advantage against their darker counterparts.
If they fail to reform the opposition mane six they should consider destroying the corrupted elements, cut off opposition Twilight's horn, or take the other Spike with them.
I am just hoping they get Discord and stop the Elements of opposition before it is to late.
That is one of the saddest things I've ever read about any version of Discord -- the more so because it obviously isn't true. In its own way, it's worse than the torture.
The really sick thing is that I suspect that Fluttercruel loves him in her own way. In the only way she now knows how to express love. Which is a sanity-blasting concept in and of itself.
Very good. It is rare for me to feel sorry for a fictional character, but damn, Discord REALLY needs a break.
So I take it that the next chapter will come out quickly?
4058548
Nope.
It might, but no guarantees. This part was actually written in January; I've written nothing at all for two weeks (well, a few paragraphs here and there) for health reasons. Now that I've resolved my health issues I hope to be back to my earlier output of approx 2K words a day, but I can't make promises. Also I have like five other incomplete stories I am trying to rotate through; if I hyperfocus on any one story then I will lose momentum on the others and they'll end up in the incomplete story graveyard.