• Member Since 4th Jun, 2013
  • offline last seen Oct 25th, 2023

Bootsy Slickmane


Retired writer and graphic artist.

Comments ( 46 )

OMG! It's finally out?! :pinkiegasp:

Hell yeah! <3

huh. it wasn't as tragic as i was expecting it to be. when i got to the end of the first, i was expecting rainbow to have run away for a while, only to find that twilight had died from a blood clot being dislodged when she was struck by rainbow, and it having traveled up to her brain. or maybe she went back to canterlot after a month of waiting, and rainbow never saw her again. you know, something that warranted the tragedy tag.

4725162
Not sure such a strong and positive reaction is really warranted....

4725408
I often have a hard time categorizing my stories. Tragedy fit the best, simply because it had an unpleasant conclusion, despite one mare's attempts to have happy ending.

4725446
Yeah, it was suggested by another that this would work well as a story starter. Not really sure what would happen from here, though, aside from potential reconciliation or a detailing of their falling out.

4725506 eh, i would have put it as a sad ending. tragedy, to me, usually means a truly terrible ending. the kind that makes you sit there and think 'damn, that's tragic' and not 'well that was sad.' but everyone's definitions are different, so....

WHERE'S THE MUTUAL CRUSH BETWEEN THE TWO THAT MAKES THEM INSTANTLY FALL IN LOVE AND MAKE OUT!?

( just making fun of every other shipfic on this site, it 's so good to have a change from the clichés.)

4725520
I gotta admit, the inspiration for this was a story where exactly that happened during a sleepover (it was humanized, though). I just thought, "Man, I bet this has been done to death. How about one where they don't hook up, and it's really awkward instead." Thus, this was made.

4725607 And I am thankful it was made...
If only there were more of these kinds of shipfics.

I can't get behind Twilight's actions or the name of this chapter, or really anything else in this story. Like, Twilight shouldn't be surprised that after she more or less forced herself onto a clearly unwilling Rainbow Dash, Dash isn't gonna wanna talk to her. The first chapter clearly implied that Rainbow seemed uncomfortable with the idea of sex in general, and that Dash was super, totally not a lesbian. But Twilight couldn't let it sit, and decided that a mild case of sexual coercion and assault was the best way to see things through? I mean, sometimes -- sometimes, in LGBT culture there's the idea of 'flipping' straight individuals to 'become gay' (even though that's clearly the most disrespectful and invasive kind of ignorance toward others' wants and boundaries). And I'm glad that this particular story came with reasonable and entirely foreseeable consequences for such an unwanted and trust-breaking action. But I still don't like that mindset, or Twilight's unnerving and consistent denial that Rainbow could possibly not want to have sex with her. It didn't feel like Twilight doing that to me, because I don't see her as having the capacity to ignore another pony's limits so entirely. Not since she's so good with other ponies and the boundaries and limits of friendship that she became a freakin' God of Friendship... I just can't get behind this, as much as I enjoyed the skill you showed in hinting at more story with actions and emotions. The premise ruined it for me.

I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I am a huge fan of Twidash (points at 16 of 17 written stories) so this strikes a cord with me when they don't hook up and the relationship completely falls apart. On the other hoof, it was written well and the conclusion was very fitting to the point here I quite enjoyed the story.

What really bugs me, though, is Twilight's complete and utter disrespect for Dash's boundaries in the first chapter. I just can't see her pressuring that much, and even more so I don't see Rainbow agreeing to go as far as she did if she was anywhere near as sure of her sexuality as you describe her as.

That being said, the conclusion opens a whole knew realm of story possibilities. The die-hard Twidasher in me (basically all of me) wants to see them actually get together in the end, but that's just ridiculous. What I would like to see is some kind of reconciliation, where they start getting back on talking terms, and eventually friends again with some serious work on Twilight's part. While yes, what Twilight did was way out of line, Dash did agree to it without any actual force. She chose to go with Twilight to her room. Chose to stay when Twilight didn't do anything forceful to stop her. To be fair, I did just skim the first chapter so I may have missed something a bit more forceful than just verbal persuasion.

Either way, it was enjoyable on its own.

4725408 Losing* the trust of a friend like RD, and the love their friendship was built on, technically IS a tragedy. It doesn't mean someone dies. It mainly means to work towards something, putting in all you've got, and just when you think you have it, you fail to get it.

Essentially you fail achieve your goal.

What Twilight did was rather common to what can and has happened to people. You ease your way in. It's a dangerous gamble. Once you lose a friend's trust, they can potentially hold that grudge forever. Some people are stubborn like that. It's a risky gamble and Twi is going to have to live with the consequences until she can somehow earn back some of that trust.

To Twilight it all just made sense. There was no way she'd lose a friend over something like trying to take advantage of their friendship, right?



4725506 I felt so. While Twilight was rather insistent, I most certainly felt it held much weight for those who've experienced at least once friend they tried to upgrade into something 'more' as Twi said. You'd be surprised how nicely you captured RD's emotions to relatable situations and her lost lost trust and sense of betrayal. Especially once she starts to reflect on how she was treated, how she was taken advantage of to do something she didn't want to do.

I thought it was great. Ending ended abruptly, but that's how friendships you gamble for a chance at love tend to end. No warning. No responses. If they HAVE to deal with you, it doesn't mean they have to put up with anything beyond what the job requires.

Anyhow, I enjoyed it. I imagine you throwing a pebble into what is a TwiDash pond to cause a few ripples, bit hey, that's life.

lol, fell asleep typing this. ouch. Goo night xD

... The sheer myopia Twilight displays in this fic in every single second past the reveal down through the last lines of the epilogue is so vast and profound, we have hit Tumblr levels of narcissism.

At no point is what she does cool, and while Twilight can freak out and become emotionally obsessive: A) She has been getting way better about it (See: Lesson Zero vs Crystal Empire vs the start of Princess Twilight Sparkle), B) Dash could have snapped her out of it (See Canterlot Wedding for how quickly she falls apart when she thinks she's made a mistake) or C) She would have realized what she did after Dash left (Ditto). The sheer depth of her self-absorbed assholishness is basically hilariously out of character.

This is fic is ugly, goes nowhere, has no real connection to the established personalities of its cast, and says almost nothing of any real meaning.

And that's why I gave you a downvote. Figured you deserved to know.

4726219

I mean, sometimes -- sometimes, in LGBT culture there's the idea of 'flipping' straight individuals to 'become gay' (even though that's clearly the most disrespectful and invasive kind of ignorance toward others' wants and boundaries).

One too many "sometimes" honestly. One of the main reasons I quit one of the bigger groups in Touhou on the US side due to a huge group disgusting people gloating about how many they've turned and tricked many into wanting to do it with them. Not caring a cent whether that person's feelings are hurt or not to say the least.

SOMETIMES things are way more common than you think, and the whole "I just turned this ____ gay" or "totally stole _____ from that <opposite sex partner>" to be more than real. No different than a ton of sluts (both male and female a-like) who brag about how many people they fuck or control. It's not an uncommon practice by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't care who does what with whom, but I take great offense towards anyone of any orientation who willingly and knowingly takes advantage of others' feelings or friendships in this or worst ways.

People like to brag, show off to their friends. Not like many want to willingly hurt the partners they're with, but there certain are a good chunk of them that do and think nothing of it. We don't have any hard statistics, but I can say I've been around enough years to say this without trying to make excuses for douchebags. We have them on all fronts and many don't care as long as they get what they want.

What Twilight did is really no different than what I've experienced or seen others go through. May seem cynical, but it's a dirty truth. People are naturally prone to cheat, lie, and even abuse their positions in a situation like this all too commonly. Sometimes it ends rather favorably, sometimes being too insistent like this Twilight can cause irrevocable harm for being overly selfish and assured that your position as their good friend could get you far.

*hugs*

I'm hopeful, from what you've said, that you've never come across these assholes personally. I pray you never do.

Though in Twi's defense, she's pretty ignorant here, sort of semi-innocent first timer whose all too excited to try this with somepony she thought liked her back, too. She just didn't know when to stop, her kind are tragic because she didn't mean ill-will towards RD. She just honestly thought she could show her the magic of mare on mare lovin'. Sad really, but predictable, how it all ended.


4726506

I just can't see her pressuring that much, and even more so I don't see Rainbow agreeing to go as far as she did if she was anywhere near as sure of her sexuality as you describe her as.

Not sure if I agree or disagree. But suffice to say, when Twilight wants something, and feels sure that probability and friendship is on her side, she's bound to do a lot of ignorant things. And love/passion for someone else can blind you the simplest of things, if only because rejection without being sure after going so far to show it could just feel so awkward and frustrating when you feel you're being judged harshly before they've ever tried it. I can see Twilight getting all too defensive and excited to prove biology and their friendship could conquer all.

But yeah, RD is pretty loyal, and Twi isn't usually wrong. It can get really uncomfortable when a friend that close to another puts pressure on you to at least TRY things out. Twi's biggest issue was she rushed things way too much if anything. Even RD was easing into the whole kissing thing slowly. Though awkward as it was for her. Twilight is pretty selfish and gets lost in her own 'logic' sometimes.

For those 'less intelligent' than herself, it just feels all too confusing when so much is being piled on you and being almost forced to choose between your happiness and that of your bestest friend.

I love stories that explore these concepts. He may not think it, but I feel he certainly wrote something that, imho, has been long overdue. Sure, we've had one comedy or two, but I don't recall reading one where they try and take the subject of how an abuse of friendship can lead to lasting consequences.

So yeah, it's a breath of fresh air to me in the TwiDashing world to have read this. Shame others don't seem to appreciate it as much as I do. Guess it's a life experience gap I suppose. Population and the environments we're raised in has a massive impact on behavior after all.


To whom it may concern: There's no one positive. You may be 'born' straight or gay, but for many more it's mostly a matter of whether they find an experience pleasant or not. Many just never put any thought into it until they are faced with it. Sometimes it starts out really really awkward and you wanna stop and run away. Other times, you may like the different texture, the different taste, and be more accepting to the idea of being with that person.

And despite what the Gay Lesbian used to think of Bi people some years ago, just because one doesn't 'choose a side' doesn't make them a whore. You've be surprised at how the Bi community used to be hated by the Gay and Lesbian associations for various reasons. So, as 'open' as the LGBT are these days to be more politically correct and sound more inclusive, words can't be taken back and there are still many bigots on both sides of the fence who rage at the notion others don't 'stick with one side'.

I'm a human being. Not a label. I'll support anyone who feels unsure in their orientations, but I won't support a label. The whole "with us or against us" types can go screw their unpreferred gender and go to hell. Equality is a two way streak and you won't see change till it's shown we're PEOPLE and not just a WHO I'D LIKE TO SEX label of straight, bi, homosexual, or other. Hell, some legitly forget we have people born with BOTH sexes, don't see them getting any mentions; hell, most never live to an age where they could choose a sex since their parents make that choice for them.

Respect your follow neighbor. Do no harm unto others. Judge not whom you do not know. And live merrily as you please. You are you and no one has a right to tell you what you are and how to live it.

Seems that the deconstruction of the popular pairings continues... I never thought I'd say it, but Twilight really deserves a punch to the face...

Killer Socks from Outer Space

Hmm, that's actually not the weirdest "from Outer Space" movie title I saw...

Seems that the deconstruction of the popular pairings continues... I never thought I'd say it, but Twilight really deserves a punch to the face...

Killer Socks from Outer Space

Hmm, that's actually not the weirdest "from Outer Space" movie title I saw...

4728321 I have. I've actually worked with some of them, as an LGBT individual myself. I do my best to remind the people I find myself in contact with, who talk about 'flipping' or 'tricking', that it's a pretty disgusting way to look at the world and the people who live in it. Heck, my 'coming out moment' or whatever came from a drunk girl forcing herself onto me and touching me in places I wasn't comfortable with, but I still enjoyed the kissing enough to start thinking about looking towards other women for romantic interests.

But, I mean, I've personally experienced a shit-load of this kind of behavior from and around many more heterosexual males. People whose first instinct on hearing lesbian is 'threesome,' people who corner me in coffeeshops and ask me prying questions about if I've ever slept with a man before as if their dick will cure me of my preferences... It happens on all sides, and I'm keenly aware of it as a problem. But I believe there are just as many LGBTQ folks who don't subscribe to the need to brag about who they've 'flipped' or 'tricked', folks who don't get noticed because the people who do treat peoples' sexualities like a lightswitch are so vocal about it.

And I get that Twilight, in this story, is inexperienced and doesn't realize how much she's hurting Dash. And I probably should have cooled down before commenting, because this kind of situation brings up bad memories for me and I tend to get pretty angry and defensive when this kind of situation crops up. I guess the real problem are the stories where this sort of thing happens with no consequences whatsoever, and people take that to be the norm... But yeah, I think I got a little carried away? Perhaps.


It's like you said about real life experiences, I suppose. And I'm glad, objectively, that this story has been written. I think the unhealthy way that the start of relationships is so often portrayed in this fandom, and really most fandoms, where 'no' means 'convince me' and indistinct moaning counts as explicit consent. But I object strongly to Twilight's use as a character here, and that's the other half of why I got so bothered by this story as a whole.

Perhaps Twilight in Season 1 didn't know anything about any kind of relationship, platonic or otherwise. But she was eager to learn, and she was constantly trying to make sure that what she was doing was okay. She did have the kind of persistence that showed up in this story, but only really during Applebuck Season when it was clear that AJ was hurting herself and the ponies around her and needed an intervention. But Twilight clearly felt blessed to have friends and was terrified of losing them. In season 2, Twilight got a lot better at becoming better adjusted to the friend-group. She stops by to make sure Pinkie doesn't need help foalsitting; she helps run the big Ponyville Waterspout to Cloudsdale, she helps AJ keep her farm... She's very cautious in her friendships. And I think that cautiousness remains all the way through season 4. In "Bats!", Twilight offers a solution to Applejack about her pest problem. She doesn't step in and suddenly say that her solution is the only way. What I love about Twilight is how careful she is to treat everypony fairly and without malice: "Twilight Time" is another great example, where she's about to kick out the CMC for not learning like they're supposed to learn if they're spending time with her. But when they show her they actually have learned something, she lets them stay.

I'm not saying that good people can't make bad choices in the heat of the moment. Hell, there have been a few times in my life where I look back and wish that I had the strength Rainbow has in this story to up and leave a toxic situation. That I had the confidence to say 'no' instead of resigning myself to whatever ended up happening. But we're not all perfect, and some things happen that are horrible, and sometimes good people cause those horrible things and sometimes they don't. I'm incapable of seeing Twilight ignore a friend's discomfort when it's so plainly and clearly shown, no matter how wound up she may be. Her character, in my mind, is so clearly defined as the kind of pony who would stop when something was wrong that I can' suspend my disbelief. And that inability to believe the story on top of my own experiences and beliefs is probably what made my initial reaction quite so strong and unforgiving.

4726219
Telaros has already addressed most of this, so I don't really feel the need to say much in response. The chapter titles, though, I can explain.

I often listen to music when writing, and the Wham! song "Careless Whisper" started playing right after I'd written Twilight whispering into Rainbow's ear. The first line of the second verse just felt really appropriate. "Time can never mend the careless whispers of a good friend." A different interpretation, but it seemed to fit. Regarding the second chapter, simply put, Twilight didn't see it coming. That's really all there is to the chapter titles.

4729120
Perfectly understandable, and I apologize if I upset you, for it was not my intention to bother anyone. I probably stretched Twilight's characterization a bit far in this, indeed, but I suppose it was what the story called for. I can't say much else that hasn't already been said, really. Thanks for the feedback, though. Even when negative, I always appreciate it.

4727930
Thanks for taking the time to let me know why you didn't like it, rather than just downvotng and walking away. I mean that, too, respectfully. It's annoying to see a flood of downvotes where only a few people are explaining. Although, in my case, it's usually pretty obvious why one of my works gets a ton of dislikes: it almost always seems to be questionable characterization for the sake of the premise, which I admit that this has quite a bit of.

There is one defense I'm going to make, though, because I think this story says more than "almost nothing." If nothing else, it's a lesson in not taking advantage of/pressuring your friends into doing things they don't want to do, as the results can be disastrous for the relationship. I'm not gonna sit here and claim this is any great and meaningful work of art, but there is something here, even if the questionable elements get in the way. Thanks for the feedback, regardless.

4728568
Hang around me long enough, and you'll inevitably find that deconstructions are something I'm rather fond of. Hell, my first story on this site was one, and I think I'm the only one to ever do it. I plan to do more, too. The best subjects and pairings to deconstruct are the ones you love the most, because they're the ones you understand the most. Also, Twilight here needs a good, hard slap indeed.

Well, now I'm curious....

4729120 Aside from our slight differing views on Twilight (Twi admitted to basically thinking Pinkie couldn't possibly do a serious job of taking care of the foals. And Too Many Pinkie Pies... that episode knows how to raise one's blood pressure at how insensitive and clearly little she puts into getting to know the actual Pinkie Pie.), but I couldn't help but want to hug you as I read that first half. Not a pleasant experience having to deal with people like that.

Though, I hope you can learn to ignore the obvious flashy peacock types. Don't let those idiots be the majority voice for the more "just want to hang out and have fun" types. Not everyone thinks with their lower extremities. But yeah, I totally believe you as I've lived around such people for a long time.

It's nice to hear someone is trying to spread some common sense and morals into the more disgusting types like my old friend used to be. Playing with people's hearts for fun is a heinous thing to do. And at times can end rather tragic too.

And no worries, emotions are always at their peak after a fresh read. I just felt a couple elements may have been overlooked is all.

P.S. Be careful out there. I hope you find someone who treats you right as you would them. :heart:

4729331
There's that movie, though in this case it's a parody. Also, I've heard about Killer Clowns from Outer Space.

Hmm, there are so many pairings to deconstruct...

4725607
Why can't you make it more like Romeo and Juliet. That'd get less downvotes.

4729935
Because that's been done. A lot. I like to write things that are a bit different, regardless of popularity.

4729315

The main problem I have is "Hey kids, sexual coercion is wrong and can traumatize people" is a really shallow lesson. Like, I got that the fic was not glorifying Twilight's behavior. But, pointing out something a hair from rape is bad is a really shallow thing to say in a fic. OF COURSE emotionally manipulating your friends into having sex with you is bad. Not to mention that Twilight doesn't actually learn her lesson. She just gets sad she never got her way. So we never actually see the struggle, confusion, self-loathing, forgiveness or catharsis that would have made this whole episode interesting and complete. You basically spent way too long cataloging the act and really did nothing to explore why it was wrong and how these characters would react to it. Like, the instant Twilight calls Dash a chicken for not wanting to fuck her on the spot, you have everything wrong with the whole grotesque affair in a nutshell. You could have Dash leave in disgust right after that, and spent the next 2000 words discussing the psychology and fallout of the situation and you would have (mostly) avoided breaking character and given the fic some real emotional weight and meaning beyond "God Twilight is a cunt. I really want to punch her right now." All of this is why I argued the fic was basically meaningless.

Also, thinking on it, Applejack would be far more likely to do this whole mess since she's already kind of emotionally abusive and controlling of Dash sometimes anyway. She also pig headed and has a hard time admitting when she fucks up. Twilight never really tries to prey on Dash's insecurity consciously to control her, while Applejack does it at the drop of a hat. Granted, it's usually because she's trying to shake Dash out of false bravado, but its a habit she could fall into if she were emotionally hurt due to Dash rejecting her. Although it would be more emotionally meaningful for Twilight to do it since she's more emotionally innocent and naive, but you would have to pull back the manipulativeness of her behavior a lot for it to be in character.

So, yeah. The story as is is a mess and says little of any real value and could have been written way better.

4730702
So, to sum up, it completely fucking sucks. Well, I've never claimed to be an artist. I was actually worried that might be the case before I released it. Sadly, I didn't get any other opinions on it before release (I did ask, though). Perhaps I shall revise and extend this, then, late as such may be.

4730825
Well, try not to take it too hard. I have friends who humiliate me and chew me out before I can publicly embarrass myself. :trollestia:

You could make this idea work, you just goofed. At least you were ambitious, although that's probably no consolation at the moment. Happens to the best of us. That was sort of something I was trying to touch on, although I admit the wasted potential only made me more angry at the fic, but that probably wasn't fair to you.

Sorry to be the ruiner of your day. Try not to take it too personally.

You know, one of the things about Twilight that has changed tremendously over the years is her attitude towards her friends and others in general. I can actually see Season 1 Twilight pulling something like this. The snarky, somewhat self-centered, sarcastic Twilight who tries to dissect Pinkie's brain and rolls her eyes at the nonsense of her friends. Princess Twilight has sort of grown into the ultimate "how to be a good friend" help-book, which makes sense given the narrative of the series' story, but also means she would never do something like this (and is a less interesting character in general).

It was an interesting story, it's not often the character-FLAWS of the ponies are given center stage, and I think people are rating the story based on that rather than the actual quality of the story. It was a good story that does what it does fairly well.

I don't think it needs a re-write, if anything this phobia Rainbow has could be explored in further chapters or a sequel of some sort, and the two could try to patch things up. It sort of ends on a non-ending without really resolving, well, anything at all. Twilight's quasi-manipulation is never given consequence and Rainbow's past experience with this sort of thing is never given cohesion, which means her reason for being THAT stoic and cold about the whole thing are nearly nonexistent (even simply her being straight doesn't explain why she's almost TERRIFIED of one of her best friends after willingly going along with it for so long). It was almost as OOC for Rainbow as it was for Twilight, without more light being shed on each of their motives and thought processes for it all.

Again though, either way, I wouldn't re-write it. Our "failures" are just as much a part of our work as our successes. Simply crying "do-over!" once it's up because others don't like it seems like cheating to me. Like George Lucas remastering the Star Wars trilogy. Maybe fewer people are aware of this story, but it still exists and it's a part of your writing history now. Embrace it, flaws and all.

4737129
Yeah, iffy characterization is the weakest part of this story. I'm working on revising it right now, though I'm honestly not changing much about what's already up. Just a few things here and there that I probably should have had in before, mostly to make it less jarringly out-of-character. Nothing that changes the premise, though, so it'll still piss people off. It's just weird when I look at it, almost like someone else wrote it, because a lot doesn't really feel like my style. Mostly, though, I'm just working on another chapter that follows up the first and further explores the premise. There was a lot that was implied, but never discussed, so I'm just going to address some of that.

Cheating? Perhaps. Never said I played fair. Although, it's said that a work of art is never truly finished, only abandoned. Not that I'm an artist. I just write stuff. I'm not really ashamed by this story, though, more confused that I went about it as I did and looking to get more out of the potential I didn't quite fully realize before. Even after a little work on an additional chapter, I already like the whole thing better. It deserved to be longer, so I'm giving it the treatment I should have in the first place. A quick look at my original notes reminds me that I kinda lost sight of what I had originally intended.

At least, that's how I rationalize what essentially amounts to trying to salvage a borderline failure. Can't please everyone (especially TwiDash shippers), but I can at least please myself by making this better. It's not like the rating on this one can ever be saved, anyway, even if I turned it into a totally different story. It'll always be among my bottom five, but that doesn't mean I can't at least make an effort to make it the best it can be.

4737567

By the way, you said nobody responded to your requests for a pre-reader. I'd be happy to do it again any time, if you like.

4741618
I'll keep that in mind when I finish up the extra chapter for this one, as well as further into the future.

4798352
Apologies if you feel misled. I was pretty sure I wouldn't have put it into the clop folder, and it turns out I'm not even in the group (yet). Dunno who put it in there, but I'll just go in and have it relocated elsewhere, since there isn't any actual sex here. Close, but not quite. Thanks for letting me know.

So I read the description and saw the tragedy tag before going in, and had some inkling of what I was getting into reading this from the start. I finished the story and have even read most of the comments. It seems that I'm not alone in my reaction.

First of, let me thank you for your correct use of the tragedy tag. All too often I see the mentality displayed by BronyPonyMan, which in addition to being wrong, reduces the usefulness of the tags for everyone. Your reasoning for using it is exactly correct. If nthing else, your story serves as an excellent example of correct tagging, and shows a story that deserves the tragedy tag without also needing the sad or dark tags.

Another point that I'd like to mark as a positive for the story is that you actually came into it to tell a story. All too often I see people plan out things roughly like this: "I want to write an AppleDash (or whatever), how do I make it good?" Instead you started with an actual story and draped the characters and setting around that.

In extention to that, the story itself, including the tragic end, was solid. You picked out a subject that was certainly deeper and more interesting than the mindless drek produced by the process mentioned above. Finding a compelling story to share is what separates a good writer from the rest who simply aren't good.

On to the grammar, you did fine there. Nothing really stood out to me to draw me away from the story. It looks like you either spent the time proofreading yourself like all authors should do, or had at least some basic editing done for you. There may still be errors, but as I said I didn't notice them. In addition to being a good example of a tragedy, this is also an example of the standard all authors should strive for at minimum before publishing, honestly.

As others pointed out, the characters chosen for the roles just don't work. Twilight especially felt wrong very early in the story. I had to eventually ignore the names of the characters and just read it as a bunch of OCs to continue to follow the story. Others have already given plenty of detail on this subject, and I can't honestly say it better than they already have.

So I'll focus on Dash. She wasn't as bad as Twilight, but she still felt like a fairly poor fit for the role she was cast in. I've seen the subversive trope before of "Straight Dash" as a reaction to "Lesbian/Bi Dash." I don't think it is very clever nor a particularly accurate take on Dash's character. Indeed the idea is fairly offensive because most of the time it is a male depicting the character and trying to cite statistical facts as the basis for Dash being "normal." Your depiction didn't stray from the trope really at all, even using the forced "comedy" value of the trope by having everyone assume Dash is gay and being surprised that she's straight.

Much like how the problems with Twilight in her role made use of character traits anathema to the fundamental role Twilight plays in the show, you placed Dash in a role where she displays timidness, shyness, and passiveness. I'm really curious why you didn't cast Fluttershy in that role, honestly. Specifically this role in your story has "Dash" glancing around to make sure noone is watching before kissing her boyfriend. She's timid about the whole sex thing in general, and you basically have Twilight walking all over her.

The other major disconnect with Dash is the concept of Loyalty. The role in your story was correct in breaking things off with the abusive friend. Even justified though, that isn't really a display of Loyalty. One could argue that it is an example of when to not be blindly loyal, but I find that Dash is usually best used as a symbol of the positive side of loyalty.

Others suggested that AJ would have been a better choice in Twilight's role, and I feel Fluttershy would have been better in Dash's. It isn't as strong a case, and there are certainly selling points to using Dash as you did, but I think the underlying story would work better with that casting change. Indeed it is a testiment to the solidness of your underlying story that it can be dressed up with different actors in its roles and sttill be compelling.

Outside of the problems of character casting, I also agree with others that the ending wasn't all that satisfying. I disagree that you should change it from a tragedy; the permanently broken friendship and subsequent awkwardness are a fitting end and should stay. I think that more should be told though. Expand on the consequences some. Maybe drag out the attempts at reconciliation and have some more ups and downs as the friends try to salvage what was broken and fail.

Related to that is the sense of pacing. The climax of the story is in the first scene, when Dash finally does escape. While it is the high-point of the plot in the current form of the story, it could easily remain where it is and serve as one of many such high points of tension. Shoot higher.

Once Dash and Twilight meet up the next day to apologize, it is pretty apparent right away that things are not cool. Nothing is done to make this even remotely uncertain, and the story sort of dwindles off.

The flashback is an interesting piece of story history (and would still work with Fluttershy in that role), and does an good job of at least building up the mindset of that character. It could be an interesting story to explore this character and have more interaction with them as the other character (Twilight/AJ) attempts to not just be another Whitewash to (Dash/Fluttershy). The problem is that it does send some vibes that Dash has sme (at least inor) trauma from an overly aggressive female, but it seems to ignore the distrust she'd probably also pick up towards males due to Whitewash's behavior. The story makes no effort to explore this at all, and is poorer for it.

In conclusion, while you have a solid story that is probably worth telling and revising, there is still massive amounts of work needed to really do it justice. Your story is too short to really play out as fully as it needs to. You have some casting/characterization flaws that cripple your story in its current form but could actually be fixed with effort.

If nothing else, thank you for writing something that was actually worth giving constructive feedback to. You earned a downvote and a follow.

4801518
Wow, that's a lot to say. Thanks for the feedback, first off. A pretty accurate description of what this story ended up being. There are a few things I feel I should address, though. I tend to view this story as a train wreck in that, considering the tracks it was on, there probably wasn't anything I could really do to keep it from crashing, and I'll talk about that in a moment. Bear in mind that the point of this story from the start was to deconstruct common fan concepts, which is something I like doing, but readers don't often react well to it (though I may just suck at it). I apologize in advance if I come off as defensive, because I don't mean to be. I just feel I should explain a bit about why this ended up the way it did.

I went with Twilight due to her touches of social ineptitude, though, as others have mentioned, it doesn't work so well at this point in time. It probably wouldn't have worked at the beginning of the series, either. Maybe Applejack would have worked better, but I would have had to either tear out her maturity or amp up her worst traits until she was simply a bully. Twilight's been privileged since she was a filly and got into Celestia's school. I'd wager a guess that she might be used to having things her way (just look at her first scenes during episode one with Spike).

Yeah, nothing too original with the straight Rainbow (though I didn't actually want it to be funny), but it was part of the goal of tossing out common ideas. Dash's view on sexuality has never been explored in canon, and I guess I just thought it might be interesting to portray her as a pony who's not that comfortable with it, partly because I'd never seen her depicted in such a way. She does seem to have quite a few insecurities, after all, she just hides them. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Also, now that I think about it, Dash rarely ever shows any sort of affection at all (remember that furtive glance before rubbing noses with Tank). She strikes me as self-conscious about such things.

Having Applejack pushing Fluttershy to try things, though, might have ended up even worse than it did with Twi and Dash. Everypony knows how sensitive Fluttershy is, so Applejack (or anypony) doing that to Fluttershy of all ponies would have made them an even worse antagonist. That's how I see it, anyway.

On the end, yeah, Rainbow's flashback deserved to be its own separate story. I knew that going into writing it. I wasn't going to have anything there at all, just having it be the way Dash was, but it was suggested that I show some reason for Dash's odd behavior, so I went for it. Maybe this should have been a much longer story that further explored their falling out, but once again, the other flaws in characterization that have been pointed out would still be there.

In the end, I could try to salvage this. But, like I implied, I don't think I could do that without destroying almost all of it and starting over, which would make it a wholly different story. As things are, this is a mess, and I'm pretty sure I'm abandoning it as a lost cause. A stain on what little reputation I have. I don't mind it being my new low point, really, as it replaces something I always felt didn't deserve the bottom spot. At this point, I just don't think this could have worked, at least with me behind the keyboard. Maybe I'll try to revise it someday, but I kinda doubt it. I'll be leaving it up and published, though.

At least it gave some people something to talk about; I always like provoking discussion. Again, thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it. Not everything I do is awesome, and sometimes I need to be reminded of that.

This would be good if it continued. It feels unfinished.

4848383
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that I'm done with this one. Maybe, one day in the future, I'll add to it or make a sequel, but I doubt it.

Shallow Naivety...is this some how supposed to be a reference to princewhateverer or am I just being weird?:trixieshiftright:

5048942
I was wondering if anyone would make that connection. It kinda is, yeah. I listen to music almost constantly when writing, usually picking songs based on the mood of what I'm trying to write. "Shallow naivety" was one of Twilight's problems in this fic, and I certainly had the song in mind when writing that title.

As soon as I saw the tragedy tag, I knew something was gonna happen :derpyderp1:

But I didn't think this was going to happen:derpytongue2:

5352760
I hadn't really considered a sequel, partly because this was all I ever intended and partly because so few people actually liked this story. I don't really know where things would go from here, but I might just look into putting a sequel together. No promises, though.

This story is amazing! I don't understand why it has so many dislikes.

7890188 it was good but my criticism would be that it would work better with made up characters or ones that we don't know the personalities of. I wasnt immersed because the two were so out of character. They didn't have to get together but it seems weird that rainbow abandoned her friend the way she did, or at least how it's implied that she never forgave. All in all, good story, wrong characters.
(Just my opinion)

7892361 But the characterization of Twilight and Rainbow Dash are extremely nuanced. Twilight demonstrates several characteristics very distinct of Twilight Sparkle which would not be better executed by a stand-in. Rainbow Dash is especially strongly characterized in this story which vaguely remind me of The Life and Times of a Winning Pony.

These girls were not out of character in any meaningful way.

http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/448077/when-you-say-ooc-out-loud-you-sound-like-a-surprised-gorilla
This blog is my personal favorite analysis of how dumb "out of character" really is in the way it's commonly applied.

7894917
You are the only one who has noticed that, despite the liberties taken with aspects of them not covered in canon, I actually put real effort into making these characters still distinctly Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash. Thank you.

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