6536799
Thanks! I, too, only enjoy it if both participants are enjoying it.

6536827
Aw, now I'm super flattered.

6536838
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/131410/discord-finds-jesus-literally
The comments on that story are amazing.

6537001
^.^ Glad you're enjoying it, and I hope chapter 4 lives up to your hopes!

6537005
Huh... I didn't know that.
This does make me feel better about the FoE 'verse.

6537024
Aw, thank you! ^.^ Makes me feel good about putting so much into it.

6537040
Heh, I think a lot of the haters would be the same way if they tried reading it.

6537083
Well, this is FoE-like in some ways, but it has important differences.
For one, no caribou. That's good.
But more importantly, everyone in this 'verse enjoys what's going on, and they all care for one another.

6537219
Thanks! ^.^ What's your favorite part?

6537236
Definitely not intended... My worship belongs to the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

6537274
Heh, yeah. I thought at first this fic was going to totally bomb, but then it slowly rose in popularity and even featured. Go figure.

6537282
He's remaining anonymous, but he is reading the comments, and some of the comments here are being pretty hurtful toward him...

6537495
I've got lesbo stories to...
But I can't help it if straight (or futa) sex is what fires my rocket. I just enjoy me some penetration and blowjobs, okay?

6537513
Oh... huh.
Well, I have no idea where else to link to, so this will just have to be one of the many stories on fimfic with broken image source links.

6537526

I know there's nothing I can do about it

You could turn 'view mature' off...

6535145 I'm a guy and even I find this sort of thing offensive. It has nothing to do with being a feminist it has everything to do with pure and simple decency. The main characters in the series are females so of course some guy/guys high on themselves would want to read a story where the most empowered characters are thrown down to the level of sex toys, and on top of that, the writer makes them love being used and traded about like a an issue of playboy.

For me this kind of tripe rates right up their with gore fics that are gore for the sake of gore.

6537830
I find I'm not enjoying them as much as you are, friend.

6537955
Yeah, it's just there for the sake of itself.
But is that so bad?

6537526
Wait... So women are allowed to have submissive fantasies, but men aren't allowed to have dominant fantasies?
I'm sorry, but that is what your logic entails.
I myself am a transgender M > F, and all this stuff about targeting sexuality and fetishes is just ridiculous.
If it does not directly harm anyone, just don't bother!

You have the right to not be offended.

6537962
Heh, that's right.
I'm surprised how many people feel the need to tell everyone how offended they are.

6537968
Basically tumblr all over again.
-----
Concerning the actual topic, well, while I'm sure you're a good author otherwise, I'm a little turned off by anything with "foalcon" in it. So while I clicked it because it looked different, and stayed long enough to leave this comment, I will not read it.

No offense.

6537968

There seems to be a fundamental misconception with this story.

This is not stallions owning mares, not directly anyway.

This is an AU story where mares are born with such extreme heat cycles that they NEED this. If this entire system would stop being how it is, these mares would unimaginably SUFFER from their own biological urges.

While people can say what they want about it being 'mosaginistic' or the like, It's fundamentally different. This is not stallions holding dominance over mares, keeping them down, etc..., this is a society that has developed with the facts of biology being front and center. And yes that means foalcon as this NEED starts in puberty. (shocking, teenagers want sex?!?! No, that can't be?!)

Or at least that's how I see.

I like it, keep it up!

I quite like this story. It's something I'll have to keep coming back to.

6538054 I disagree that this story isn't about owning mares. If it was purely about satisfying intense heat seasons mares would be able to choose who would satisfy them. Blossomforth looked eager to stay with Boomie but couldn't because the choice wasn't hers.

I don't see it as mysoginistic either.

6538228

With such a huge ratio difference between mares and stallions, think, logically, what would happen if it were up to the mares.

Stallions would soon become property to be traded and battered between mares. Sold like pieces of meat to satisfy their own desires. Even though they themselves do not have that strong of sexual urges.

6538238
if that was to happen then this would still be a story about one pony owning another, just role reversed.

Being willing to be owned because of the benefits you get doesn't change the fact that you are owned.

6538440
Now I haven't read ch 4 yet, but,

I guess I see it different. In this universe mares are assigned to a stallion based on the magic of the princess of love deciding which stallion would be best for them. This prevents any fighting over who gets who and it stops ponies from being bartered like currency.

In addition it's been established that even if a mare belongs to stallion X, she can still get with Y if she wants.

If it were up to the mares, stallions would soon be currency. the most powerful mares would own a horde of stallions and leave scraps to the vast majority, fights would soon break out and stallions would be kept in cages.

6538209 Because having fantasies about incest, paedophilla and fucking in public are any better?
There are no good guys in this, only gray and gray morality.

6538465
You really need to read the latest chapter then, because bartering literally happens.

While it is true that Fluttershy sought out Blaze it was because Blaze had a preexisting arrangement with Big Mac that they would share mares. Otherwise she could have chosen anyone at that stadium instead of seeking him out.

If a mare was to decline a stallions advances do you think he would stop? In this world, mares may be a willing commodity and in your hypothetical world the stallions would be unwilling commodities, but they would still both be commodities to be used and traded at their owners disgression.

6538504

What's the old saying, what two people do in the privacy of their own home?

IF bartering happens, yeah I disagreeing with that totally. (unless all parties wanted it)

That being said, much like today, there's a very big difference between willingly doing something and unwillingly doing it. Even today, you can willingly be someone slave for as long as you want to and no one can say anything. Because, you have the freedom to do it (Given, not my kink, but if it's someone else's I don't judge them for it). Now, as soon as you don't want to, or you were forced to do it against your will, then it becomes illegal and immoral.

And to me, and the law, that makes all the difference in the world. As long as it's consensual, and doesn't hurt anyone, keep your nose out of it.

If a mare was to decline a stallions advances do you think he would stop?

I think he would. I think in this world if a mare was born with no sexual desires once-so-ever, they wouldn't be assigned to a stallion and be free to do whatever they wish. Even the sex doesn't prevent mares from achieving status and rank.

6538517

Even today, you can willingly be someone slave for as long as you want to and no one can say anything.

If someone is willingly submitting themselves to someone else with the knowledge that they could call the whole thing off; that's not slavery, that's the illusion of slavery. It's that illusion that bondage/domination is built upon.

If someone is submitting to someone else because they've been indoctrinated from the day that they were born that they have no choice then that is real slavery.

In this fictional story, they don't have a choice.

6538554

If someone is submitting to someone else because they've been indoctrinated from the day that they were born that they have no choice then that is real slavery.

Do you base this one something in ch 4? Because I haven't read anything that lead me to this belief. Scootaloo is the only one I can base it on and while she was nervous, she wasn't made to do anything, her own urges kicked in and she willing did everything. Also something to keep in mind is that the colt she was with had no say in her either. If he didn't like her, well, too bad I guess. It's just not an issue because Cadance is never wrong about such things.

Also, indoctrination is a tricky argument to make. This is how their SOCIETY works. It's how things are. Now you could be right, but until we saw a mare being forced to fuck a stallion against her will, they all seem perfectly happy with how things are.

Just because it's immoral to us, it doesn't mean it is to them. Hell, we do a SHIT-TON of immoral stuff that any rational race would turn their nose up at us.

6538593
This is from chapter 3.

Three o' clock, Cirrus View Apartments, sixth floor, suite 614. Rainboomer, of the Rainbow family. That's what Princess Cadance had told her. That was all Princess Cadance had told her! Would it have hurt to tell her at least a little bit about the stallion she was about to meet? The one she was supposed to spend the rest of her life with ... unless he traded her for somepony else?

Scootaloo gets her cutie mark and is assigned to a stallion. No one asked her if she wanted to be assigned one, and because she had been raised in the culture that treated this as normal, she obeyed. That's indoctrination.

As for Boomie's consent, he absolutely had a choice. Stallions of this world are free to trade any mares, even those assigned to them by the princess.

I just want to be clear, I'm not making any judgements about the quality of the story. I like this story. I'm just pointing out that this is definitely slavery.

6538650

So they told her to be there and dragged her there kicking or screaming and then forced her to have sex? Or did they just give her a note and she went by herself because she wanted to?

And again you use indoctrination as your argument but we could say the same for:
Kids automatically being part of their parents religion
Kids automatically having to go to school
Kids automatically being part of the country they were born to
Kids automatically having to wear clothes
Kids automatically being taught what their parents want them to.
Kids automatically being taught they have to get jobs, make money,
etc... etc...
Now given these are 'normal' events for us, but to an outside observer, it's indoctrination. We are taught from birth that these things are normal and that's why we go along with them.

We can't judge their society based on that, because we're just a guilty. Again, if we saw a mare forced into doing something she didn't want to do, then it'd be wrong. But saying it's wrong because even if they want to do it, they know no better? Because we know right? Can't really do that because our society and everyone in it is just as guilty.

So in the end, it's slavery if they're forced against their will. Now you can say they're indoctrinated into believing it's right, but they can say same thing back to you, that you're indoctrinated into believing that it's wrong.

Who's right?

Who can say.

This is attempting to satisfy too many fetishes at once, with much more sex, and much less 'everything else' than you would expect from your average clop fic.

6538668

What did she know about stallions and sex and babies? Nothing at all. And despite an occasional uncomfortableness under her tail, she didn't particularly care to find out, either.

Just because she wasn't dragged kicking and screaming doesn't mean she wanted to go. She just went because it was what was expected of her.

You are right that all of the things you listed could be considered indoctrination. However indoctrination can be used for good things (such as 'bathing is a good idea'), bad things (such as 'owning other people is A-Ok) and morally ambiguous things (such as 'your parents religion is your religion'). However some distinguish indoctrination from education, in that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. People question what they've been taught all the time, as shown for example, by people who shun the social standards of clothes that they were taught as children to live in nudist colonies.

You're unlikely to ever see that smoking gun of a mare saying 'no' or even 'yes, but not with you,' because of that same indoctrination that stopped Scootaloo from voicing her reluctance instead of just making her inexperience known. But perhaps when you read the latest chapter you'll change your mind, as it clearly depicts a mare expressing a desire (non-verbally at least) to stay with one stallion and being denied by the stallion who currently owns her. It's even implied that this mare's current owner maybe neglecting her which may explain why she wanted another stallion, despite his inexperience.

Putting aside moral judgements of right or wrong, if the path of someone's life is being determined by someone else then that is no doubt about it Slavery.

I feel bad clogging up the comments section with such heavy topics though, perhaps we could continue this discussion in PM once you've read the latest chapter.

6538892

Just because she wasn't dragged kicking and screaming doesn't mean she wanted to go. She just went because it was what was expected of her.

So... just like the vast majority of the shit we do. We do it not because we want to, but because we're expected to. However, we still have a choice, and so did she.

They didn't even force her to have sex, she joined in because of her own urges, because she wanted to. Nothing ever said she had to.

if the path of someone's life is being determined by someone else then that is no doubt about it Slavery.

Then religion is slavery.

I don't necessary disagree with that, but that's the augment you're making. And again, unless we see the smoking gun of a mare being forced to do something she doesn't want to do, or one forced into a situation she didn't want to be in, we can't stand on a soap box and say they're wrong. Because we do the same shit.

This society is just less stuck up about sex, they consider it nothing more than a normal thing. (Which I actually agree with, we're too stuck up about sex)

I'll read the last chapter tonight and PM you after if I feel different.

Update:

Yeah, read the last chapter. The whole trading thing kinda killed some of it for me. It didn't kill the story, but it did kill some of my enjoyment for the story. Stallions were meant to be paired up with mares by Cadance, not on a whim to upgrade. I don't understand that decision at all. It would have been fine if it had just been 'sharing' but on that one decision to put in trading: well, it undid a lot that the story had going for it.

I still like the story, but...

IDK DLS maybe you can explain that one to me. What's the point of Cadance choosing for you if you can just trade them away? Why have that at all? Ugh.... IDK.... I don't like saying something should be edited, but with that... I'd take it out. It's unneeded, doesn't serve the plot, and really messes things up. They could just as easily be sharing.

Was bretty good but I prefer femdom.
Still leaving a like because I know it'll get someone mad.

Overall I loved the story. All the main cast was well developed (it's likely shocking to most that Dash is just a background character here) and I really enjoyed seeing Boomie mature a bit. I also like that most of the focus was on taking care of your partners.

Like a few others, I really disliked the whole trading thing. If the mares could veto the trade, then I'd be a lot more comfortable with it; but as depicted it just feels horribly wrong to me. Even just a passing mention would sooth many ruffled feathers. Some thing like: "Rarity has declined any trading, but let me introduce you to..."

I came here for the controversy in the comments... And I'm disappointed.

First and most important: If you felt uncomfortable when you read the description, you should've just left.
If you were sickened, but curious (Or downright wanted to read the story) Read it and THEN like or dislike it based on the writing ability, character development, originality, etc. Not because you are against this kind of fics. Because if it bothers you, you should ignore it instead of giving it more attention.

If you just comment something like "This is wrong", "You're a sick pedo" blah blah... You're only going to get hate from the other, truly interested readers.

Loved the story wish there were more like it.

Well, the third and fourth chapter seem better than the first two. The character -- Boomie at least -- becomes better fleshed out than early on, and the characters have a little more depth. The end point seems somewhat arbitrary, but is also somewhat understandable. I don't think it's as good as Sex Ed: Changeling Style, but it's not as bad as I originally thought.

On a semi-humorous note, you would think that a society that was so open about sex would provide better education for it. Not necessarily actual sex to understand it, but at least enough to understand it before they get their cutie mark and are considered old enough for... relationships I guess?

well worth the read. Wish there were more, but I guess that's what imagination is for, eh?

6538927
Nooo, the trading made it better! I know you don't have this fetish so let me tell you, you aren't this stories target audience. The degradation, trading of people like they're commodities whether they want it or not is exactly what makes it so hot! The fact that they can trade mares assigned to them by Princess Cadence is another way of degrading them, as even the highest ranked mare, a can be overridden by the lowest ranking stallion.

I'll leave our discussion on whether or not this constitutes slavery for the PMs so we don't clog things up here!

6537968 so, if i were to say, request a continuation of this story, would you? like, as a patreon commision?

6537676

Well, this is FoE-like in some ways, but it has important differences.
For one, no caribou. That's good.
But more importantly, everyone in this 'verse enjoys what's going on, and they all care for one another.

Another big difference with FOE is that in this fic there is no violence and mutilation of wings and horns.

6537005

You sound like the kind of gal that would be terribly confused getting to know that the Fall of Equestria universe - built entirely around mysognism - was written and invented almost exclusively by females.

You sound like the kind of guy that would be terribly confused getting to know that women, too, can be sexist.

6537287
I should point out that Anita Sarkeesian believes women can't be sexist, thus it's difficult to cater that joke to an informed audience.

6538927 Dude didn't you know? Even if a woman wants it, even if she wholeheartedly consents fully informed, if it doesn't meet feminists standards than it is rape.

I really enjoyed reading this; it is a consept that I have not seen done in quite this way before. I enjoyed the story, in total, from the world building where The Princess of Love helps choose who should be with who to the last chapter where they want to trade. I kinda want to see something more done with this story, Like a few more chapters and perhaps some more haggleing and deals. I'm not sure why but that mite be intersting. I wouldent mind if he found a way to get all three of the mares from the one stallian. Not entirely sure how he would do that but it mite be intersting...

Okay haven't read the last 2 chapters, but still wish more existed. However, reading the comments is so hilarious on its own. I mean these comments have all the flavors: the "white knights" who hate this on concept without reading, the idiots who can't understand anything that isn't flat out black&white, the harmless perv comments who want to be funny, the idiots that think everything you wrote down or say is a true reflection of actual beliefs so the must attack, the legitimate commentors, and finally the people trying to get others to calm the fuck down with logic against the "white knight" bitchers. Got the full spectrum.

*incest*

Nope!

*leaves*

By the by, that's how you deal with something you don't like. Not berating the author, not explaining why its wrong/disgusting, simply turning around and taking your business elsewhere

i came for the pic, stayed for the story

Didn't read it yet, but this looks drama-inducing. Have an upvote, dear sir.

Literally no comment on the story in itself, but I feel like anyone arguing in defense of the fic's morality based on what happens in the text is kind of missing the point. Authors, or I guess whoever's commissioned them, have nigh-infinite power over the situation in a story. Whatever the justification might be in-story for mares being willing slaves to stallions, it only really exists because the author/commissioner invented that.

I'm not even saying this to down on the author/commissioner or anything. I just don't think the proper response to "I'm kind of disgusted that people are publishing fics where females are basically property" is "Well if you actually read it it explains that mares HAVE to be property because blah blah blah."

Because that reasoning is built entirely on fabrications on the creator's part. Someone could just as easily write a story where ponies HAVE to eat babies because biologically babies contain a certain nutrient that everyone needs to survive, and it'd be just as poor an argument against "What kind of sick mind writes a setting about baby-eating?"

You can totally argue that the fic has just as much a right to exist as any other and if people don't like it they shouldn't read it. That's a legit stance to take and good on you for standing up for that. I just think it's kind of cognitively dissonant to argue that the fic has got some moral backing for owning females as property because there's a line or two written in that explains it as a biological necessity.

That's just my two cents. I'll go ahead now and sidle out through the back.

6542130 But, the drama? The drama!

6541485

Can someone give this guy a medal?

This was an amazing read. Each chapter got hotter and hotter. I was skeptical at the foalcon, but one, that's a personal taste thing, and two, you pull it off wonderfully. The mares and stallions are just perfect, and the descriptors are excessively delicious. Thank you, thank your parents for fucking and making you.

From a story quality perspective, it's not that good. Pretty much everything that happens is because the writer/commissioner wanted it to happen without any sort of coherent logic behind it.

Yes yes we're talking about fictional magical horses having sex and the subject matter may turn some off, but stories should still have some form of internal logic it follows. This story has none of it. While I can enjoy it for what it is, it could have been better.

The up/downvote ratio accurately represents this.

That said... Upvoted, favourited and followed...

6542130

You might be confusing suspension of disbelief with cognitive dissonance.

The suspension of disbelief in any story is to accept the premise of the story: in this case the premise is that the biology of these ponies require something like this. If you cannot accept the premise don't read the story. Yes, the very same argument can be made for the baby eating story in which case I would say the same thing.

And on that note, you might want to watch your analogies. I've seen you make the Falicy of Logic: Faulty Analogy on more than one occasion.

6542653

Nah, I mean cognitive dissonance. Sorry if I didn't go too deep into why. My opinion on the subject is that some people are fond of the story, but accept that the core premise of owning females as de facto sex slaves is kinda skeevy on a moral level. One method of reducing that dissonance would be to buy into the in-story justification for mares as property, i.e. it's a biological thing, which makes it necessary.

Not to say that there's anything really inherently wrong with that. If buying into that explanation makes the story work better for you, then more power to you. The issue here is when you try to use a narrative argument against a meta-narrative criticism. Whatever the author/commissioner wanted to provide to justify in-text why females are effectively treated as property, it's inconsequential to criticism of the author/commissioner for producing a story about females being treated as property in the first place.

The proper response to those meta-narrative criticisms is stuff like "Whether or not you agree with it, this fic has the right to exist" and "It doesn't actually reflect morally on you as a person if you're into this sort of domination fantasy." Because that's addressing peoples' issue with the fact that a fic like this exists at all. The criticism isn't that the author/commissioner failed at creating a world where treating mares like effectively property would be morally justifiable or biologically necessary, but that they as human beings decided to produce a story in which mares are treated as effectively property.

Suspension of disbelief would be applicable if the controversy over this fic was centered around narrative criticisms like "I don't believe the story's explanation would force mares to be utilized as de facto sex slaves." Stuff that accepts the story's basic concept and right to exist, but doesn't fully buy the story's in-text justifications or events. In which case, it'd make sense to argue something like "Well, whether or not you fully believe the author's premise here, that's just how it happened."

Everyone is arguing about ethics and morals in a clopfic.
pbs.twimg.com/media/B5t_R5iIQAAW58n.jpg
And I'm just sitting here clopping.

6542830

Cognitive dissonance is the mental difficulty of holding two competing viewpoints at once. It's not really appropriate in this case. Also, while I agree that an apologia of this story is pointless, how is it not relevant?

This whole conversation is like someone wandering onto a fan page of the Dexter TV show and saying "I will NEVER watch a show about a serial killer because that is morally wrong!" and then people reply "well he only kills guilty people."

The justification doesn't change the underlying moral issue but it's still meaningful to mention.

6538043
If it helps, ponies in this universe are considered adults when they get their cutie mark, and all the ones depicted sexually here have their marks.

6538054
Thanks! Glad to see someone who's thinking about the morality and still enjoying it.

6538098
Thanks! ^.^ What was your favorite part?

6538209
That's a very good point.
Punching people because they have a fetish you think is wrong is not okay.

6538228
That is true. The ownership part is a fetish that's intentionally in the story.

6538359
Sure, the story's more than a little bit sexist.
But it's okay for a story to be sexist.
As long as this stuff isn't happening in real life, it's fine.