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I really like the term "tribalist" instead of "racist". While I hate to allude to the real world, your story also brings up good points about the subtle internalized racism that's still socialized into the US population, and the importance of acknowledging and transcending such thoughts.
I feel like this could be faintly paralleled between an African American and his/her white boy/girlfriend. Even so, I don't think it'd get a rise out of anyone. Domination of another is one of the most common fetishes there is, and if this is common historical knowledge amongst everypony, it would be easy to draw a comparison without meaning to. If said African American, for example, loves the feeling of being dominated in such a... degrading manner and the experience brings him/her sexual pleasure, what goes on behind closed doors is really nobody's business but the two involved. Similarly, if said white partner were to notice their partner's love for submission to them, the thought could conceivably cross anybody's mind, no matter how much they may hate themselves for it. In this instance, Rainbow just happened to notice how hot Applejack looked in her Gala dress, and just so happened to see similarities between it and a riding saddle. She didn't do anything wrong. :\
In a similar manner, I know a few instances of actual rape fetishists out there. I won't name anybody, but these are people who know -- absolutely know -- that rape is completely and 100% amoral. But the body likes what it likes, even if the brain argues against it. For some people, I suppose some things just get the juices flowing better than others, and so long as they know better than to act on such depravity, I don't think anything is lost on the individual.
In this instance, Rainbow loves the idea of taking somepony as powerful, strong, and beautiful as Applejack, and stripping her of all that -- and pretty much anyone who has a domination fetish likely has a similar desire. It's the idea of it. Because earth pony history is likely common knowledge amongst the races of equines, then it's likely easy to make the parallel and still find the thought of such domination hot, no matter how wrong or bad it was in actuality. I think everypony, Twilight and Mac in particular, blew it way out of proportion. Some people/ponies just take their fetishes to greater extremes than others. Everypony knew it was wrong, period, and because the brain is so fickle when it comes to our conscious control over it, sometimes we just can't help what we think or conclude when presented with certain things.
Excellent story, though. I can see how it might have provoked some raised eyebrows. But, then again, every fetish at some point squicks someone.
The logical conclusion you can draw from this story is this: Fetishes are weird!
Happy reading!
-TUC
Just as promised, as soon as I saw this I had to read it
It's… disturbing, which it's meant to be. I appreciate how it doesn't go for easy answers or reductions, though there's a cost to that: it's not particularly heartening as a story. It defines problems and lets them just sit there and there's no room for a ponylike happy ending, more just a wise ending (even 'sadder but wiser'!). One doesn't want to strip away these ponies' kinky fun from the previous story and one gets the sense they are forever changed by this recontextualizing.
I guess they'll get over it in time.
5254465
I didn't intend it to be so bittersweet... but I am glad it's realistic.
And AJ and Dash will have their kinky fun; I'm sure Dash is smart enough to at least do her best to keep AJ's feelings in mind, which is all AJ asked. And Mac seems to appreciate the gesture of the better hiding place and the warning. They're actually in a better place now, because they understand a little more about each other's boundaries, which is how you keep from hurting other ponies.
5254583
So that's were she hid it. It wasn't a threat about something that was his and shameful, so as to be used for blackmail in the future in case he decided to talk about hers? Sweet, that makes it a lot better in my mind.
Filthy earth ponies.
That is a really great sequel... and a really great take on entirely possible pony history. Quite likely pony history, actually.
Well written, too. Good work!
Gay shit of a story. Die out alrdy.
5254583 Yeah, it has to be bittersweet because Mac was really hurt by her actions.
To make it be truly a happy ending (but as a different and probably longer story) you'd have to have taken Mac a different direction: instead of directly making him hurt and angry with Applejack, you'd have him not know WHO was hiding a riding saddle. He'd flip right out and make all the same judgements, all the more since it's invading their privacy, and then Applejack would be grappling with the same issues from a more delicate beginning, perhaps with Dash and Rarity amused at her story of Mac's freakout. It'd be this callousness that tips her off, and they would write off his distress because they'd know it 'wasn't real', it was BDSM.
"Hahahaha! What an idiot! He doesn't know we're just riding YOU, you filthy little mudpony you!"
The reason that would go for a happy ending (after all the turmoil) is that Mac would believe the problem was bigger than it was, and Applejack would have to fess up, which is something she's had to do in canon and resisted. So rather than the end being 'Mac unchanged but puts up with AJ's pervertedness grudgingly', it would become 'sudden and bizarre enlightenment because the one he truly trusts has revealed the truth'.
Give him a moment to be totally gobsmacked and stunned, with AJ protesting that she's still the proud strong earth pony mare, and then Mac considers letting his marefriend Cheerilee ride HIM as a kinky thrill (because AJ is an example of sexual liberatedness he can believe in), and you have a 100% happy ending (though it is rather didactic as it suggests everybody should be doing kinky bondage, which yours rightly doesn't). Because it'd be Mac changing in a pandering way, and AJ doing one of her 'keep secret, then admit it' arcs, all the while actually being supported by ALL the other characters, and then accepted from all sides when she reveals the kinky truth.
…I think the cost of a feel-good ending here is a mite high, for that reason. It's fun to have cloppy stuff where everyone ends up on the same page and content, but you're definitely balancing 'choices have consequences' with 'people can be enlightened and change their points of view', with 'enlightenment' being bondage roleplay. It seems pretty obvious that earth ponies do not HAVE to be down with mudpony roleplay, to be virtuous. That would be a strange requirement for an author to have of them.
Keep the bittersweet, even if it affects the earlier story. What's here was also present there, just glossed over. It's not wrong to take the big overview of things.
I kind of find Twilight and Big Mac's level of outrage here to be a bit much. Especially when you consider the kind of time scale you would have to be working on. The enslavement of the earth ponies, at the earliest, would have to had happened more than a thousand years ago as I can't imagine Celestia allowing that sort of thing during her and Luna's rule or after Luna's banishment. For a symbol as specific as a riding saddle (other saddles are apparently ok and don't have any of these negative connotations?) to survive that length of time and invoke such strong reactions is a little much.
No one knew Celestia had a sister who tried to take the throne but apparently everyone is familiar with and extremely passionate about what by this point should be a piece of historical trivia.
Great story, O.
I don't know if this is due to cultural differences between author and reader, or a deliberate choice, or what, but I had to stop reading this several times to avoid shouting at the screen. The sheer level of perceived anvil-dropping and idiot-ball-holding coming from Twi and Mac was downright infuriating. The repeated jumps from "taboo kink" to "your/our best friends and/or lovers are tribalist" nearly had me close the story entirely, and the "unicorn guilt" from Twi was just cringeworthy. Given the timescales involved, this isn't like someone getting upset over Nazi roleplay, but more like getting upset over "Roman and slave" roleplay.
I'm sorry, I wanted to like this, but IMO the whole thing was just so heavy-handed and forced that I can't take it seriously.
5256125
It's stated in the story that the slavery took place before the first Hearth's Warming.
There are a couple reasons why it's still so important:
First, history is messy and even in the real world we give different things different ability to affect us years in the future: for example, the Jewish faith still celebrates it's freedom from enslavement by a group that hasn't existed in 2000 years. A look at Europe or the Middle East can easily show feuds between groups of people that stretch back thousands of years. Depending on how cohesive a group is, memory can last a long time.
Which leads me to: one of the reasons I said this didn't explicitly line up with any sort of real world history is that the real world has nothing like the pony tribes: the pony tribes are going to be a more cohesive group because they really are different from each other. It's not like "unicorns" have intermarried, traveled, and been conquered so many times you can't even tell who's ancestors were even unicorns (as might be the case with the ancient Greeks or Egyptians.) We can see that inter-tribal relationships in Equestria are rare by looking at canon, so most of the unicorns today are descendants of unicorns pre-Hearth's Warming. The same is true of the earth ponies, so they're going to be a cohesive group with a shared history, more similar to the Jewish people than the ancient Greeks, but even more so because they've been less open than even the most clannish real world culture, and the ponies who enslaved them are still right there in much the same form.
And finally, something I tried to imply, but might not have come across: You're totally right, Celestia wouldn't have put up with this bullshit. Furthermore, the Hearth's Warming Spell wouldn't have worked if this was going on. This means that there hasn't been inter-tribal tension on this scale in thousands of years. The earth ponies remember it, and feel strongly about it, because it's literally the worst thing ponies have ever done to each other, and the other tribes did it to them because of the same lack-of-powers they still deal with in smaller ways during every earth pony lifetime. So it becomes a cautionary tale of what could happen to them if they aren't a tribe full of strong and proud ponies who demand equality.
It is something I considered, but in the end this is a fantasy show, and I think there's precedent that the fantastical elements that we know about could lead to a situation where a hurt like this is stronger than it is in any real life analogue.
So.. after nearly 2000 years Riding Saddles are still a hot button topic? Even when we see ponies pulling carriages and air chariots for others? Even when there're far more horrible things to have imprinted on their history? Even after Discord basically rearranged the planet to his liking?
I guess the moral here is that Big Mac and Twilight have giant sticks rammed up their asses and that sharing your full, honest thoughts with your whateverfriend will destroy your sex life when they're warped and misconstrued.
Sorry, having trouble buying this story both because supplying transportation to other ponies is a legitimate job in canon and because large parts of it rather silly.
5256365
Um... picking cotton is a legitimate job in the real world, and people still didn't like being owned, beaten, and raped while they did that.
As for why it's still hot button, I addressed that here: 5256345
5256320
The timescale issue is addressed here, as well as (in the third paragraph of the explanation) why it's so taboo: 5256320
5256345
derpicdn.net/img/view/2012/6/27/22463.gif
No, the ponies who enslaved their ancestors are thousands of years dead. At the risk of generalizing to real-life examples, carrying baggage around like that is not a practice that promotes a healthy, cooperative society unless you want to be an insular ethnostate. I must not give real-life examples. I must not give real-life examples. I must not give real-life examples....
5256373
If picking cotton is a legitimate job and hauling taxis are a legitimate job, even with the history attached to each, then I'm going to go with 'Mac and Twilight are small minded and backwards'.
Then, of course, theres the fact that those feuds that stretch back thousands of years are still being fueled by the current generation. It's more than just 'a thousand years ago blah happened' and closer to 'We commit this atrocity today which is fully justified by the atrocity they committed yesterday which in turn was spurred by what we did the day before that and so forth! For our ancestors! Huzzah!'.
If you're going to try and tell me that Equestria has had an active feud running and regularly refueling itself with new crimes since before the Windigoes, through Discord, the Reign of the Two Sisters and into the 1000 year reign of Celestia, then all I can do is
5256388
Like one where inter-group relationships are still rare, and certain cities are completely segregated or known for being specific to one group or another after those groups have supposedly been united for thousands of years?
5256433
[Note: I'm not a USian] Could be worse:
5256395
I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. In your original post, you argued that being an enslaved riding pony shouldn't be seen as a bad thing because ponies freely work in the transportation industry today.
I argued that this makes no sense, because the slavery part is what makes it bad, and some occupations get associated with that slavery. If you go to a black person in America today, and tell him he should consider a career in picking cotton, you will not get a good reaction, even if he recognizes that there's nothing wrong with picking cotton.
If you're arguing something else, please explain.
If that's what I was saying, that would be an appropriate reaction. But, I think the Jewish people have let go of their issues with the Pharaoh. That doesn't mean they forgot about being slaves, or that isn't a large part of their culture. In this case, the direct descendants of the Pharaoh are right there, still culturally different from the enslaved group. Earth ponies aren't mad at the other tribes as a general thing, but they remember and don't appreciate them taking it lightly.
Honestly I rooted for RD in this fanfic. To call it 'tribalist' (obvious meaning is racist) because they have a bit of innocent (Not so innocent) fun without hurting others is just plain wrong.
And for Twilight to actually think she has any rights to stand up for earth ponies, when she herself breaks traditions with her magic and mocking earth pony culture (Winter-wrap up) is downright hypocritical.
Also Twilight is practically an icon of tribalism herself. Alicorns, after they came to existence, has been the sole rulers of all ponies with no earth, pegasi or unicorn ponies by their side, so when Twilight suddenly becomes alicorn and by that a princess without any form of approval or vote from the population, it is clearly favoritism of the alicorn-tribe.
5256446
That's all well and good, but are you arguing that this:
does not describe the canon Equestria we see on the show?
You're the one drawing conclusions for what that would have to look like that don't match up with canon, not me. I'm happy to accept that there are major divides (as there would have to be when ethnic groups have totally different physical limits and each pony can only represent one ethnic group) but the ponies usually happily co-exist.
5256373
Steady, my kinky compatriot
Some of these folks are my dear friends and yet I MUST remind you that there's a big chunk of the populace (populonies? oh nevermind) who will not react well to a 'you bear personal responsibility for not perpetuating structural problems' message.
Like it or not, you've composed a very determined 'individuals are responsible for the consequences of their actions even if this must involve empathy and buying into other folks' POVs' message. In essence, you've got pegasi and unicorns capable of lording it over mudponies to this day (which they are) and choosing not to do that, with Twilight as a Social Justice type at heart who takes her responsibility to internalize the earthpony POV very seriously.
Thus we drag gamergate into a story about bondage ponies wearing kinky bridle and tack to become a pegasi's sexy bitchpone
If the discussion goes completely demented, sincerest apologies for the loss of your comments section (it might help heat rating, though?) and I told you so
But basically anyone who's truly alienated from Twi's position here is coming from a place where they do not feel any personal responsibility for systemic problems. To them, if they personally decide not to be prejudiced that's the end of the story and it's insulting to keep arguing or trying to pin blame. And Twi is rather despicable in that she's trying to pin blame on herself and those like her, and calling it virtuous and responsible. There are folks who figure systemic things don't exist.
Heck, just today on Facebook I saw one of those psuedo-heartwarming posts asserting with great determination, 'everything in your life is totally your choice and responsibility, so have a positive attitude and never blame others for your own failings, just try harder and believe!'. At first glance it seems an exhortation to self-sufficiency but it's also a very convenient credo for a thief or mugger
Meanwhile, the earth ponies are in this story-verse looking at the unicorns and pegasi and going 'still wings, still horns. Check. So, did they start treating us like sub-pony animals again… THIS week? 'cos they can do it again ANY TIME they want and we know it'.
And this is why Twilight's attitude in the story is a socially cooperative one. You might say with great power comes great responsibility… or you might say that your duties as a citizen are read more broadly than 'get the most you can for yourself as that's your only duty'. Twi would expect more, unhesitatingly. We're just quibbling about the application of that concept.
5256365
There's probably quite a difference between pulling a cart and having another pony ride you, in Earth pony minds. In the former case, you're operating a vehicle; in the latter, you are the vehicle. It's demeaning and de-ponifying on a whole another level, especially if there's a bad history involved.
5256475
What does telling a black guy to pick cotton have to do with anything?
And that is exactly what you're saying. That nearly 2000 years ago, the Earth Ponies got fucked over and somehow the angst has been lasted far past the point of pedigree collapse. For the level of shock and horror displayed, it'd need to be perpetuated across the generations. Which means that, fairly recently, ponies would have to have been doing some very naughty things. Things that would've pissed Celestia right the hell off.
So.. I'm just going to go with pure
5256514
It's called an analogy. Where you use a similar situation to offer context for the situation you're talking about.
ETA: I just realized you might have been serious: In the United States, many slaves were used on cotton plantations to pick cotton. Even after slavery ended, picking cotton retained an association with slavery that anyone with an understanding of race relations in the US would recognize. Sorry if you weren't aware of that.
First: When did pedigrees collapse? To this point in canon, the vast majority of couples we've seen have been from the same tribe. Despite the fact that the tribes obviously live and work together, (in fact, because the tribes live and work together) there's clearly something going on culturally that makes them far more likely to marry within their own tribe.
Second: I already addressed why I think it could still evoke that level of shock and horror without being perpetuated across generations. I will allow that in my headcanon there's lingering stereotyping/hesitance to completely unify, but canon bears that out in that after thousands of years, there are still cities that are primarily unicorn or earth pony, not to mention Cloudsdale. And there are probably fringe elements that're a little more extreme, and the actions in the story imply that no right-thinking pony would agree with them. Thanks to Hearth's Warming and Celestia's reign, there have not been any direct problems between the tribes in thousands of years. Internalized issues and prejudices? Yes, that's canon. But "doing very naughty things"? No, not at all.
You can disagree with my opinion, but don't tell me what I'm saying.
5256567
I made an observation. That that was what you're saying. Because thats exactly what you're saying. Everything you've said has basically been that: A long time ago, something happened. Which kicked off racial tensions that have somehow remained hot for nigh on two thousand years even though anything that'd keep them going would've been stamped out.
Also, you're using Cloudsdale as an example? Cloudsdale is kind of made of clouds and centered around the creation of weather. Convenient for weather generation, less convenient for tourists. Unless those tourists are suicidal. And hey, here on Earth we have cities that're predominately one race or faith or another, just because thats how things shook out.
As for the lack of mixed couples.. Oddly, MLP rarely focuses on romance. Your sample size is entirely too small to be able to claim that miscegenation is a concern ponies have. It could easily be for any number of reasons.
Taking all I've posted together, I feel
is the proper response. You've taken a lot of liberties with the source material, which is fine. They're just illogical and senseless liberties, which is less fine.
I read the original story when it popped up in the Popular Stories box. i'm pretty durn much a coltcuddler, but I love Applejack and some humiliation/BDSM, so I gave it a shot. And it was damn hot.
Right after reading the original tale, this one showed up in the Featured Stories box, and I had to do a double-take because all I saw was the title. Checked the author - eeyup, a sequel. So I gave it a read.
This turned a hot pony play story into a very solid, socially complex, and emotionally-touching story, to the point where you've convinced me of faves on both and a watch to boot (for what it's worth - which isn't much, since I'm just a bored clop-reader).
5256653
Yes!
*Sigh* Almost. You were so close.
Anything direct would have been stamped out. Attitudes and cultural differences (like, say, between the unicorn and earth pony ways of doing Winter Wrap-Up) would have kept them as something ponies were aware of. For some ponies, that would take the form of simmering superiority, while for others it would take the form of being careful to respect other's traditions.
Yes, and those places encourage an insular culture. If you grow up with no friends who aren't like you, you're going to learn a lot about that group and their opinions, and not a lot about any other group.
Ah, but we do see a number of families.
Twilight's family: All unicorns. Rarity's family: All unicorns. The Pies: All earth ponies. The Apples: One non-earth pony at the Apple extended family. The Cakes: two earth ponies who made specific mention that there was one unicorn and one pegasus relative far back on their family tree.
The CMC decide that Mac (an earth pony) is perfect for Cheerilee (an earth pony). Rarity's love interests have both been unicorns. Now, Trenderhoof does become interested in AJ, but he also has the line in the series that proves that some ponies have stereotypes about the tribes: "I've always had such respect for the work ethic of earth ponies.”
I'm not saying that it's illegal, but at this ratio it seems likely that they have a strong tradition. At the very least among earth ponies, since we can see how rare it is in both the Apple and Cake families over an extended family.
If they're still illogical and senseless to you, I'm sorry I wasted your time. I tried to explain them as best I could. bookplayer may be able to explain it a bit better.
5256567
I don't want to get into the race debate or whatever cause RL stuff isn't what this fic is about, but I would like to voice my theory on this particular aspect of the show.
I think the reason pony couples tend to gravitate to their own tribes is due to opportunities to meet mates. But which I mean I think it's likely most ponies meet their partners through their work/application of their special talent. It's only natural to be more drawn to ponies with similar interests and such so if we take it that Earth Ponies are more likely to be farmers, Pegasi to work with weather and Unicorns to work in academics then it's less likely a farm pony will meet and fall for a weather pony. Obviously this is an oversimplification but you see what I mean right?
From what we've seen Ponyville is technically one of the most diverse population centres in Equestira, it's centralised location probably having a lot to do with that, though I don't think the other cities are less diverse due to tribalism (in this context racism) but just an artifice of early population of Equestria. This is just headcanon but I think it is likely that the early Equestria was composed of loosely connected settlements that would later grow into the modern cities. It's only natural that these cities would be populated primarily by a particular tribe since integration would have been a slow process. I imagine this was prier to the advent and implementation of the railway system.
Anyway, I liked this fic, it was very interesting to see each ponies' perspective on the situation.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea that Earth Ponies are automatically the oppressed/abused/ect of the tribes as it's just as likely they could be the oppressors IMO. But that's a miner thing. Also I would have liked some mention of Earth Pony slavers selling to the other tribes just to add an extra lair to the issue but again not a big deal. Now all I need to do is read the clop fic this came from.
5256840
Oh, absolutely! Though part of the implications of that (in my opinion) would be that each tribe would be likely to still have a distinct cultural identity, just based on working in the same occupations, living in the same locations, and being part of the same families. Like what I said about Cloudsdale: if the ponies you're around are mostly the same tribe, it's only natural that you'll know a lot about that tribe, and not a lot about other tribes. You'll pass on ideas and traditions, and be more likely to generalize about groups you don't know as much about.
I'm not a fan of them as oppressors in a large scale, institutional sense, because it would be really hard for them to subjugate ponies who could fly away or freeze them with magic. But I can totally see it in a more social way, like disapproving of a pegasus moving into their neighborhoods.
That being said, I also can see an Equestria where tribal stereotypes are treated more as harmless generalizations. Either interpretation is valid.
Actually, in the clop it's mentioned that some earth ponies did own riding ponies, it's just that all riding ponies were earth ponies, so it was far more common for an earth pony to be on that side of things. I probably should have brought it up, but it didn't really feed into AJ's emotional arc, so it probably would have been more of Dash trying to deflect.
*Giggles* That was a fun read.
5256930 IRL, a considerable percentage of slaves in America weren't black. And many slave owners weren't white. But stereotypes and poor historical education persist...
And I gotta point out-- holding a grudge over your great-great grandaddy being a slave is already pretty stupid. When the last slave owner passed on over two thousand years ago, it's utterly moronic.
For perspective, imagine me holding a grudge against you for a tribal war that took place in the bronze age. Damn those babylonians, untrustworthy to the last!
5257209 a considerable percentage of slaves in America weren't black. And many slave owners weren't white. But stereotypes and poor historical education persist...
On that note, some of the more prolific slaveholders were black. Then again, a good majority of the slaves that were sold into the Americas were also criminals and the like that were sold by their own country/countrymen in lieu of execution or other methods.
Hell, black slave owners also had white servants as well. Not that this is discussed in history class. Hell, I have slaves and slave owners in my family tree from several different countries and I'm not complaining. I don't see the Irish or Chinese rioting in the streets, etc.
It is a stupid argument to have. EVERY ethnicity has had a turn holding and being under the whip in the last 300 years. No group is special about it. Clinging to history makes one bitter. Learning from it makes one enlightened.
5257209 Nobody's got a grudge over being a slave. Mac's got a problem with the implements OF slavery being used openly and considers it disrespectful. And that's not invalid. If someone wants to get butthurt about someone dressing up as an egyptian overseer and oppressing their jew boy/girlfriend in a kinky sexual context, that's their right too.
I need context here. When she's saying "y'all" she's talking to Rares and Dashie?
___________________
Eh, I'm not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand it's well written, everyone is reasonably in character, and it does do a fairly good job giving a balanced perspective on the issue.
But on the other I bluntly find the ending repugnant. I was hopping it would end with Applejack defying opinion and history and continuing to let Rainbow ride her because they both enjoy it and what they do together isn't anybody elses business. Big Mac might have had a point about not leaving your sex toys laying around where anyone could stumble upon them, but other than that I think he was way out of line, and reading Applejack telling him that he was right turned my stomach.
And I think Twilight and Rarity's talk about history and all that was misplaced. I'm not one of those people who says we should forget about history, I think allot of things that happened long ago still matter today, history provides context for the now, but on the other hand I do think there is such a thing as being to caught up in history, paying the past to much deference. And when an atrocity that occurred amongst a bunch of dead ponies/people starts dictating what consenting adults may do in the bedroom, things have gone to far.
Perhaps I'm an extremist (I've certainly been accused of being such) but I think people/ponies have a right to their fantasies, no matter how awful those fantasies would be in a real world context. As long as they don't spill over into mistreatment of other living beings (and generally I think they don't) then there's nothing wrong with two partners roleplaying things that in real life are horrible, and that includes slavery. I don't think people need to apologize for their fetishes, even when those fetishes aren't socially (or I'll go even further, morally) acceptable. I wholeheartedly endorse of Applejack not doing something that makes her feel uncomfortable, but seeing Rainbow Dash told to stop fantasizing about something is to me distasteful.
Normally characters in a given story having a different viewpoint on an issue than me is something I can live with, but the whole story is essentially built around delivering those viewpoints, it's all pretty much just a long discussion of the issue, so I can't help but find this whole thing deeply unpleasant to read.
Ultimately I've decided not to vote on this fic at all. I considered downvoting it because I didn't enjoy reading it and I find many of the views expressed utterly meritless, but I decided that it would be hypocritical to punish the story because the characters don't think/feel the same way I do. It's a complex issue and reasonable people can disagree, and its entirely possible I'm the crazy extremist on this one. I also considered upvoting it because of the writing quality, the attempts to look at the issue fairly, not demonizing Rainbow for being "wrong" (looking at issues fairly and not demonizing the opposition is a lot rarer than it should be and should always be acknowledged) and the fact that Applejacks emotional turmoil was very well done and relatable, but I eventually decided it would be dishonest to myself to upvote a story that upset me this much.
So yeah, good job, I hated it ;)
5257209
Think you have too many zeros on your number there, other than that I agree. As long as its consetual theres really nothing wrong with it.
Edit: I just figured out that you were talking about the timeline in the fic and not IRL. So yea, disregard the first part of my comment.
Congrats on the #1 feature!
5257353
That's pretty much what happens:
Now, she admits that Mac is right because when they examined the issue, she, Applejack, did not feel respected by Dash (but only because of the fantasies outside of the scene). But they worked that out. And because her own discomfort made her realize that her fantasies shouldn't be making him uncomfortable. Neither solution can totally eliminate the issue, but they show respect for the other ponies boundries.
So then what would you recommend Applejack do about not feeling comfortable with Dash thinking of her that way? She does care about what Dash thinks of her, after all. If Dash thought she was liar or a slacker, she'd be pissed. Is thinking of her as a slave less offensive because Dash likes doing it?
5256497
I suspect that's largely because of this:
They do different things, have different Special Talents, and live in different places. If the pegasi are either flying around or living in the clouds, the earth ponies are clustered around farming regions and whatnot, and the unicorns are off waving their horns around, they're not going to mix much. If they're not mixing much, you're going to see them paired up with one another. Add in the Special Talents nudging them into certain lifestyles, and they're likely to have more in common with other ponies of the same tribe. You don't need ponies carrying around thousand-year-old grudges to get that.
Given that Mac and Twi go completely off the tracks here, either they're exceptional examples of ponies that you've dropped on our heads like so many anvils to hammer the point home, or those two pillars of the community are a representative sample and Equestria should look one hell of a lot more like the Middle East than it currently does.
5257414
(Just chiming in to say I love that comic. Very specifically, how it ends.)
5257433
Neither.
Mac is a pony who's concerned with the treatment of his sister and a little suspicious of her dating a pegasus that he already felt, based on Fall Weather Friends and Over a Barrel, wasn't entirely sympathetic to earth ponies. The saddle seemed to confirm his suspicions and her complacency in it.
Twilight is a historically and philosophically minded pony who's concerned about making things fair for everypony. She cares deeply about history herself, and doesn't like to see her friends disregarding it or thinking about other types of ponies as lesser.
Rarity, on the other hand, understand both why it's wrong and why one would think about it anyway. Applejack is fine with it in play, but disturbed when it's something outside of her control.
Ponies, like people, have different opinions on something like this. Only Dash is presented negatively, and only because she's refusing to consider or acknowledge that something she's doing is hurting her marefriend's feelings, rather than anything about her actual feelings about earth ponies (which Applejack agrees with before she finds out about the fantasies.)
5257292 "And that's not invalid. If someone wants to get butthurt about someone dressing up as an egyptian overseer and oppressing their jew boy/girlfriend in a kinky sexual context, that's their right too."
It is also the right of the people doing the 'kinky sexual context' to do this in private (at least as long as no one gets majorly hurt or abused) without being judged for it, from a person who just happens to barge in or discover their secret, which they worked hard to keep a secret like in this fanfic.
5256494
Cadence was a Pegasus before she ascended, and Twilights cutie mark being the same as the symbol on the tree of harmony heavily implies she was destined to become a alicorn the moment she got her mark.
This is why you're one of the best authors on this site. You're also one of the best vowels.
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5257546
Cadence turned princess, when she became alicorn, if I am not very wrong.
Destiny to be alicorn does not mean Princess.
Twilight is not a proper person (or pony) to rule a country. She goes too much into the books to notice the people, she shies away from the spot-light and most of all. She got a really bad temper, which can really go wrong if the ponies begins to question her actions, especially the press in a semi-rude manner (Which is to be very expected).
But your comment still doesn't remove my main point: Tribalism is strongest with alicorns, since they automatically gets a high position of power, just for being more powerful.
5257576 sorry. Could have worded that better. You are right that people have the right to judge others without any logic behind it.
What is wrong, is when said people goes into offensive and directly seeks out the person to speak against their actions. This is called harassment and is very illegal.
Also right to judge others? Last time I checked, racism is illegal. That falls under the right to judge.
5257533
Actually, it's not. Anyone who wants to has the right to judge the hell out of you, for anything. You can point out your intentions (keeping it hidden, not trying to offend) but it's up to them if they accept those.
Now, it's the right of people doing that to decide if/how much they care about or respect what that person thinks. Absolutely.