After Fluttershy threw a tantrum in Ponyville's marketplace, Rarity invited her over for some good old girly gossip. The Fluttershy that turns up on her doorstep, however, is absolutely not the one she was expecting. Somefilly has a secret and Rarity isn't above using a few tricks to find out what it is.
"I swear, there is stuff going on in this story that is beyond my level of comprehension. Not to mention that calling the characterization merely show-accurate is doing it a disservice—it somehow seems to reach into a tier of super-canonical character clarity. So yes, you will enjoy this."
—R5h, The Royal Guard
Featured in the Royal Canterlot Library.
Cover art: Rarity's Exquisite Makeover Treatment by WillisNinety-Six
Chapters (1)
I'm not quite sure what this was about, but it did it damn well. Have a like and favorite.
i didnt get it either but ill like it
This story has a lot of twists and turns, that might need to be straightened to lower confusion. I think I get it though. Good job.
I think I understand what's going on. Throughout life what we all need is someone that gets us, someone that can relate and deal with life not only with us, but the same way as us in some cases. A parent will watch their child grow up, and during this time know the child's quirks and reactions, but they will always reach a point of no return where everything becomes more complicated and the pair drift apart. Sometimes neither will even notice until there's nothing left to salvage. And later on in life when you sit back thinking about the good old days, you'll remember the people who seemed to understand you completely and were special because they let you be yourself when no one else would let you.
Or something like that, I dunno. Very good read though, and I'll be checking out your other stories as well for another gem like this.
3962307 3962841 Western culture is pretty negative about the important of men as parents. This is just a little reminder than fathers matter, and that absentee fathers—whether literally absent or just not emotionally connected—are among the highest indicators of emotional dysfunction among developing children. In this case, one mare's gain opens an old wound in the other. The rest is standard storytelling banter and misdirection for effect.
3962841 3963707 Fluttershy summerised it to implant (hopefully) the idea: “Rarity, most ponies invite me to do things; you’re the only one that invites me to do nothing. You’re the one that invites me just to be. . . . " Fluttershy and Rarity are virtually codependent in the show; notice how Rarity is flustered at the beginning when she is blindsided and then goes on to control the situation at every step while Fluttershy enjoys letting her do so. It's symbiotic in its dysfunction that Fluttershy is able to exploit when circumstances grant her the chance to understand herself a little more.
Not that they will always, just that too often they do. Parenting is a skill, not a right. I wish more people would see that.
This is lovely:
I rarely come across stories where just about every word is vital, but this is definitely one of them, "standard storytelling banter and misdirection for effect" included.
Very nicely done.
Mike
3964738 From you, that genuinely means a lot. Thank you.
-M
Very enjoyable story.
Well written, well characterised, I'd be hard pressed to find something I didn't like about it, except maybe that the ending felt a bit abrupt.
Great job mate!
Can't wait to see what you come up with next
3976898 Technically, the 'next' one is the one written before this, but it needed more patience and editing. Things are a bit hectic right now, but soon... it should be soon...
And thanks! I did consider an extra beat—narrating Rarity's walk to her parents—but I felt it watered down the pace too much for my liking. To each, their own, and this one was unashamedly for me, since the subject matter is very personal.
-M
Wow.
Just... Wow.
My parents divorced when I was really little, so I'm reading it from Fluttershy's angle. This really hit home for me, and I can't find the words to express how I feel about this.
Well done.
4002516 Divorce and absentee parents are so prevalent in the world today that I really wanted to bring it home with a blunt-force-trauma delivery. I'm so very, very glad it found some people who could truly appreciate the implications of the situation. I'm rather in the reverse in that I have—for the time being, at least—distanced myself from my parents for my own psychological health, thus writing it from Rarity's perspective. You have my deepest sympathy for your experiences; may others be spared our pains.
All the best,
Scott
“Complictaed.” Rarity raised a hoof and
Just a typo I noticed.
4002587 Dammit! So close...
Changed. Ta!
“Well I’m sure you need me to tell you you’ve an eye for colour.”
I think you meant "Well, I'm sure you DON'T need me to tell you [...]"
Your writing is quite nice on a lot of levels, stylistic and flavorful. I'll admit, however, that I left the story feeling... well, confused and a bit disappointed. I myself lost a parent to divorce and even THEN didn't sympathize enough with the characters to really "feel" the ending. This coming from someone who likes some rather sad stories and has a guilty pleasure relationship with sappy shipfics; I'm definitely not unemotional!
I have a few murky thoughts but I don't want to leave a sprawling negative comment, so I'll just mention the biggest question mark in my mind:
Rarity's tantrum at the end really confuses me. She gets the first inkling of these feelings of missing her past relationship with her parents, goes to visit them... then we fast forward to her having torn apart her room in a drunken rage before passing out on her bed and STILL being overwhelmed by these thoughts when she wakes up. Did something noteworthy happen at her parents' home, something we as readers should be aware of? Because if not, it feels like visiting her parents would only REAFFIRM their presence in her life and the possibility of having them as very close, understanding friends again, rather than filling her with desperation for times that can never be reclaimed... Admittedly, I wonder if we got this ending just because the story was MEANT to end sad from the get-go, so it had to go this way?
Obviously my opinion is VERY subjective, as the reaction to any emotionally charged piece is wont to be! Sorry if I come across as, well, douchey. I don't mean to be, just letting you know how your story made me feel. I truly hope it's not unwelcome!
I'm so confused.
4003308 Feedback is never unwelcome.
Both details here are assumptions on your part. It doesn't say anything about getting drunk or falling asleep. Many watchers of the show have noted that Rarity has the highest propensity for violence out of the main characters; she doesn't need alcohol to get that angry, just a trigger. Further, and perhaps most importantly:
I don't think this is a fair and open assessment of the situation. I'm not saying that in some cases it couldn't, merely that it is not a viable assumption to generalise about. If Rarity made it there—and the story has a 'but' that leaves that unresolved—the same parents who left her with a feeling of being separated to begin with would only likely reinforce that feeling. After all, if the problem was them not 'getting' her, then that isn't going to change without a reason to do so.
Anyway, I'm not saying you'e wrong—Death of the Author and all that—I'm merely presenting a different possibility. As I said in the accompanying blog post, I wrote this story as a cathartic release for exactly the kind of situation Rarity finds herself in here, and I can say with certainty that visiting my parents only reminds me why I try not to talk to them at all. When communication fails, anger is sometimes all that is left.
Thank you for your thoughtful response,
Scott
4005165
Ahh, I had somehow not realized the bottle against the wall was PERFUME, rather than alcohol. When I was reading I somehow separated the concepts of the smashed bottle of liquid on the wall (which meant alcohol in my mind) and the "thick, cloying scent." Oops!
Well, when I read the line, "After I left Fluttershy’s I went straight over to see them—my parents—but [...]" I didn't get the impression that the but implied that she might not have made it. "I went straight over to see them" reads, to me, as she literally made it to see them. Perhaps this is a language thing?
It seems that this is something that's VERY subjective. You're claiming my point of view on this is potentially "not a fair and open assessment of the situation," a slightly accusatory statement, when it's most certainly up for interpretation based on many factors, some of which are only known to you, because as the creator of the work you have conscious and/or subconscious scene-setting/world-building/characterization for the story we can't see.
We've met Rarity's parents on the show, and it seems like they are caring, supportive types, whose biggest crime is that they don't have a refined bone in their body. It feels very likely to me that Rarity firmly thinks they don't understand her, and believes that because they have little in common it creates a huge barrier between them. These feeling manifested strongly while she was a teenager and then stuck with her as her "new norm"; many teens begin clashing hard with their parents for years until they "escape" the nest, often because they feel misunderstood, trapped, resentful, etc.
Having seen how they speak to Rarity and treat Sweetie Belle, it's difficult to imagine Rarity's parents not being openly proud of how much she's accomplished and being quite willing to welcome her back with open hooves. Which, altogether sounds like the kind of support she apparently feels she is lacking enough to have a 6 hour crying fit. Unless in this story it's meant to infer that they were unsupportive in some important way?
I would argue that listening might still be a viable option...
4005231 that is, quite frankly, the most pleasant association with 'cupcakes' I have ever seen... (I'm not much of a fan of the pastry itself, and the fic even less so,) but dat profile pic tho!
4005231 had a longer answer written out and the tab crashed :(
Well, this is clearly where the divergence occurs. Their behavior in the show is what prompted me to construct this little vignette. They were inattentive, distant, unempathetic, and generally not particularly good parents. Their being proud of her is absolutely not the kind of support she needs and Rarity explicitly states this in the story: Twilight says Rarity's parents adore her and Rarity agrees but says that she wants something else from them. There is nothing in the interaction that says either party has genuine respect for the other—a catastrophic situation for a parent–child relationship.
You see one thing, I see something else. Both are merely opinions.
So when communication fails, your suggestion is communication? You know some say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's exactly this kind of illogical response that drove me to cut ties with my own parents. I don't mean that disrespectfully; it's a fact.
-Scott
4005961
The second thing out of Dad's mouth after "good morning" is "I'll have you know that Sweetie Belle here cooked this yummy lookin' breakfast all on her own," indicating pride in her budding skill-set. The very first thing out of Mom's mouth is informing Rarity that she is personally helping Sweetie Belle learn how to cook, which Sweetie Belle seems to enjoy doing and proud of despite an obvious lack of skill. I've worked with children; this is the behavior of a supported and "you are talented!"-reinforced child.
Yes, they don't seem to grok the fact that Rarity is surprised by the sudden addition of Sweetie Belle into her home, but Rarity had agreed to it and acquiesces to it in less than a minute, before things could escalate. Have you taken this exchange:
--Rarity: So, now, when you say "a week," is that, um, seven whole days?
--Mom: And six nights, I know! Such a short time to spend with your little sis.
that features strong misunderstanding (played for comedy in-show, but that's probably moot), and inferred it means inattentiveness, lack of empathy, and bad parenting?
I would say that for many people that pride of someone implies respect of their behavior, even if they aren't the best at expressing it.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting that YOU were the one who needed to listen...
I was just being Captain Obvious. Almost all personal communication (not talking about diplomatic talks or other extraneous things) is wildly enhanced if listening and understanding is as important/more important to the involved parties than getting their own point across.
4005326 I'm glad to give you a new thing to think about instead of that story! I claimed this as my pony moniker a week before that story really became a "thing" and... by the time it escalated even bigger, and I thought about changing my name, I was already a moderator in my social circle (on Synchtube) and resisted change... Little did I know it'd be a PERMANENT thing!
4006210 lol, just avoid having Pinkie as a profile pic and I think you'll be alright.
4006169
You say that like it's a good thing.
And I've spent a lot of time interacting with the ruins of this kind of parenting failure. This is not a good or healthy way to deal with things. This is exactly why I have Rarity turn out as she did in the story.
Respect for their behaviour is exactly what's wrong. When praise and respect is given for things done, it creates an unhealthy dependency that is very hard to break in later life. There are entire parenting courses on how bad these self-perpetuating cycles can be. White lies to bolster confidence as a horrible model of behaviour to use on a child.
Yep, and that's exactly what I saw as missing in the show. Their communication was stilted, superficial, and ritualized—everything I have come to learn is bad for a developing child's emotional stability. My point was that the very words you used demonstrated that exact failure to listen—read, in this case. I said 'when communication fails' and you responded with 'listening might still be a viable option', which is, as far as I can see, completely ignoring the comment it was in reply to. If listening was a possibility then communication hasn't failed. That's exactly the kind of plastic platitude that can undercut a child's sense of self and sense of importance to their parents—it smacks of hearing what you wanted to hear and not what was actually said. This is exactly how I read Rarity's parents. why else would Rarity be so emotionally unbalanced in the show?
Yes, I realise this is mostly the norm for parenting in the west. I have simply learned that parenting in the west is piss-poor and one of the primary causes of the anxiety, depression, and obesity epidemic currently throttling healthcare in America, Canada, and much of Europe.
I must say I enjoyed this, although I find the feelings very hard to emphasize with, coming from a functional family and all...
I've read the discussion between you and Cupcakes, and I'd like to ask for clarification: The whole thing about Rarity's parents being proud of budding skillsets, or basically the whole behaviour-oriented response and also the "not to do, just to be" thing, boils down to conditional instead of unconditional love and appreciation, right?
I can empathize with that. The sentence "our boy makes us so proud, he's such a good student / pianist / whatever" must be one of the most manipulative things ever. As if they'd love him less if he'd turn out to be a janitor, even if it were his dream job.
A thing that I think didn't fit though: “Seeing them reminded me of a big storm that blew through when I was a little filly. I hid under the table from the thunder and lightning and Father—Dad—crawled under there with me and held me until it was over. I think I even fell asleep there.
What I think is more important for the emotions going on there, as well as what you described as "Rarity taking control", and also the way Fluttershy is so comfortable in the arms of her father, is the childish belief in the invincibility and infallibility of his/her father. A father figure radiates a sense of power and as long as he's there, a child will always look to his/her father on how to handle it, since that is obviously the right way to do it. This is a cornerstone on which a child builds his/her reality, and as soon as that crumbles, the accuracy of the sense of reality of the child improves, but it's a reality that is, in the case of a loving father, less pleasent. That's a thing everyone goes through, sooner or later. Even the most unconditionally loving father won't make you feel comfortable in a situation of danger once you're past that point.
Ok. So I read this earlier today, and have given it some time to roll around the cranium, I think I am prepared to discuss this work, now that I have settled on my opinion.
To start, it is obvious to me that you have a developed skill with words and a subtle sense of character development. Rarity's actions throughout the story were considered and appropriate,and the subtle clues she cajoled from Fluttershy were a delightful way to forward the plot. The final reveal, and the heartache that turns this story around, was set up exquisitely through your story.
So please understand just how hard it is for me to say this: everything was set up quite nicely for a final poignant twist, but the twist did not live up to your earlier work and it failed to move me in the way that I was expecting.
Unlike Cupcakes, I am perfectly willing to believe that Rarity's home life has been difficult. I am even willing and ready to believe that Fluttershy's happiness with her father is the catalyst that pushes Rarity to the culminating breakdown. I accept all of this.
But you did not show us this breakdown. You told us about it, after everything was over. You didn't give us the exquisite torture of Rarity being horrible to her family, or vice versa. You didn't give us a foundation of experiences to underscore the difference between the two families. I see that you are trying to play this carefully to avoid tipping your hand, but the lack of any supporting scene in the story robs your closing line of all its impact.
But I want that line to hit me. I want this story to punch me in the gut. Especially since you have shown such a wonderful and capable skill with your writing, you need to work this ending to stop explaining to us what should be shown in all its uncomfortable glory. It should be difficult to write, not because words are hard, but because you should feel physically ill with the effort of making things awkward and clumsy between Rarity and her father.
Your story is fine, as it stands. It could be great. But you have to stop dancing around the pain and sorrow at the heart of the matter, and just dive in.
Good luck, pone.
I'm a bit confused...
After reading this, I felt about the same feelings that I did toward the end of Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days when Roxas said, "Xion! Who else will I have ice cream with?"
I know it's marked as "Sad", but... it doesn't punch me in the gut like sad stories are supposed to.
...
Then again, maybe I shouldn't talk. After all, I can't even write a story revolving around a character's death to be properly sad.
...
Sorry, my thoughts go into weird places that other people can't always follow.
4008228
That's my understanding, yes.
And that's the bit I disagree with. That's the common way things play out, but it's also unnecessarily unhealthy. One of the skills advocated under philosophical parenting is to actually make the child aware that the parents are not infallible, and that the child has every right to correct her parents when their behaviour conflicts with their stated principals. Grounding a child in this reality-based dynamic is extremely powerful for building a sense of self and a relationship that does not have to crumble with time. Yes, most people go through it, but only because so many people aren't grounding their children in reality. Letting them see the flaws in people makes it easy to be flawed themselves and still maintain a strong sense of worth.
That's my take, anyway.
4010947
You got me wrong there, I think. I didn't mean parent's should reinforce the assumption of the child that they are infallible at any time, but it's something they'll have to actively work against, because a child will assume that. I agree that seeing the parents as normal people with flaws is important, but I think it's something of a standard-position you'll have to shake.
Still, what I tried to say is that in order for you to feel safe in the arms of your father in a situation that would otherwise scare you, you need that skewed perception of his abilities, because if you'd know that he can't do more about it than you, why would you feel so much safer?
A sensible approach to the situation with the thunderstorm would be to explain to filly Rarity (omg, got the most adorable mental image right now) that storms aren't actually that dangerous when you're living in a house, that thunder is just a sideeffect of lightning, and what a lightning rod is for. From then on, she wouldn't need her father's presence to feel safe in a storm.
Her wishing that "being sheltered" feeling back has little to do with unconditional love, IMHO. Falling asleep in the arms of your father like Fluttershy is the same thing, basically. She's being sheltered.
4011023 Well I'm definitely missing something!
You said: "A thing that I think didn't fit though:" but I'm not sure what you're saying doesn't fit. Rarity had that false sense of worth from seeing her father as perfect and was left vulnerable when that façade cracked. Seeing Fluttershy get the parental attention she'd been deprived of reminded her how much she wanted it and touched a very raw nerve that ended in her frustration and anger boiling over. Now, either we're at crossed purposes entirely, or that follows logically enough.
No?
4011049 I think the two things are completely seperate. Fluttershy speaks about "Having someone on your side no matter what," e.g. unconditional love, but ends up getting sheltered. Rarity sees Fluttershy getting sheltered, talks to Twilight about how her parents don't love her unconditionally (as in they weren't on her side when she wanted to open the boutique), brings up a memory of her being sheltered, and ends it all with "being Daddy's little Princess," which is again a position of being empowered by conditional or unconditional support.
This sentence in itself holds a fallacy for me; You derive a false sense of worth from conditional praise, and all which we spoke of that is manipulative. THIS cracked when she wanted to do something her parents didn't approve of, and withdrew their support. On the other hand, what seeing your father as perfect provides is not worth, but a false sense of security.
Do you see what I mean now?
4006525 I suppose in the end it comes down to some strong differences in opinion and experience regarding parenting, and a lack of understanding on my end about what happened to Rarity's childhood, teenage years, and adulthood from your perspective. I do agree, however, that endlessly telling your child that everything they do is good enough is not appropriate parenting.
I agree strongly with Dr. BlankFlank, and others with less fleshed out comments, that there was something(s?) missing here that left the story confusing in the end. It might just be that our perspectives on the situation don't mesh up with yours quite well enough to grok what you've shown us, and just a tiny bit more, an Ah-Ha! moment perhaps, might have been enough for us all to smile and nod along with you. Even me!
Also, it's my opinion that there's no such thing as communication failure, but there can be a lengthy hiatus before both sides are willing to listen to each other again. Sure, this might sound like a "platitude," an empty positive statement, but a life isn't over in a blink of an eye nor decided in the heat of a moment, or even the heat of years.
PS: The downvotes on your comments aren't from me! Yes, we disagree, but I don't think your views are THAT obscene.
4011099 Yes, though my understanding is that they are not separate at all. In this case, the security Rarity gets from the anecdote is derivative of being valued by her father—she sees him as protecting her, which reinforced her value to him and makes her feel cherished (I am worth protecting). Most people aren't consciously aware of the difference between conditional and unconditional love (otherwise parenting would be very different); all Rarity knows is that she had that sense once and it was lost. Seeing Fluttershy so comfortable with her own father makes Rarity long for that feeling she had pushed aside to avoid the pain.
I'm not even sure that 'protection' in that sense even registers as an emotional need. I think it's more of a cognitive construct to explain/justify feelings of, or desire for, worth.
4011124 Nowt wrong with a few downvotes anyway. Who'd want to spend their whole lives talking to people that agreed with them?
Not entirely sure what to think about this. It's well-written and clearly had a lot of thought put into it, and you held my attention the whole way through - so pretty typical of your fics! I had trouble really getting the interactions and motivations, though. Then again, I don't really get people either, so maybe that means this was realistic
I suspect she wouldn't claim a monopoly on something she'd rather share with others...
4277069 Thank you for the feedback, but I'm having trouble taking any of it seriously:
Out how? At best, we're guessing at character traits from a show it over-simplified personalities. And more convincing at what? From the context provided, Fluttershy desperately wanted to make sure her father stayed around and was trying to make that happen by mimicking a pony she saw a socially savvy.
To me, flat-out stating 'she would have' belies some fundamental lack of understanding in terms of how complex people are. I simply can't take that as a valid criticism. Under the circumstances, she's already busy blaming herself and 'numbing out' is a perfectly normal physiological response for people prone to self-attack. It also depends of whether she was holding emotions back or actively trying to figure them out. There are simply too many possibilities for there to be 'a' way she should have reacted.
Better how? Since the point of the story was the interaction between Rarity and Fluttershy, Applejak clearly wasn't the better pony. And I can only think of one episode with Rarity interacting with her parents and it was not enjoying their company. Even if it were, however, it still wouldn't be a conflict. People can interact, even enjoy, time with their parents and harbour deep resentment towards them. That isn't a reach on any level.
Fluttershy wasn't even planning on talking about anything at all. It's only her interactions with rarity that prompt her to do it at all. I'm not sure any of that would work with a completely different character.
No. It's context—relevant context. Even if it was a red herring, that wouldn't explain why it would constitute adding to a downvote.
Again with the 'would have'. She might have, if she'd been asleep in the first place, which she wasn't.
A nod? I'm not sure what you mean.
As always, I've no issue with the downvote, I just don't understand any of your reasons.
-Scott
4277421
I think you're missing something. We're not premade molds. We each have our own little idiosyncrasies, a certain dissonance of thought between us that makes us each unique. Just because two people have the same motivation, doesn't mean they'll act on it the same way. I know people who can't stand their parents at all, but for each of them, they respond in different ways. Some run, others confront in rage filled storms of emotion, yet others just stew in their own misery whilst contaminating the mood of all around them, and a few bare their burden silently for yet more diverse reasons.
To try and claim you know how each person will respond to every situation just because you know a few people who share a similar motivation is the height of foolishness and arrogance. It is also denying any individuality. Further, just because someone has a motivation in a single moment, does not mean that they do not have additional motivations and prior experience dealing with similar motivations, nor does your statement take into account the vast array of experiences that goes into making an individual who they are, both nature and nurture.
If you truly fail to understand this most basic principle of human interaction, then I extend my deepest sympathies to you, but I can not let such comments go in such an unabashed manner.
4660768 It took a while to decide if a response was appropriate, but in the end I feel that I'd be selling myself short if I didn't weigh in again.
The Dimension Traveller's comment seems to be aimed more against the claims that certain characters actions were wrong. You have come to a point where you're flat-out contradicting yourself, stuck between absurdly absolute claims about what should happen in someone else's story and how 'good fiction' should be.
It's a third person limited perspective – there is no reason to have an explanation for a character that is not the focus character. Everything a reader needs to piece together her motivation and emotional state is contained within the story; the only assumption that is drawn from the show itself is how Fluttershy might normally be assumed to interact with a character called Hard Sell in Ponyville's market, and that information isn't important. If there wasn't enough information for you to figure it out, that's fine. If the characters didn't act in a way that made sense to you, that's fine. But when you keep stating things as if they are absolute facts and not subjective perspectives, then I have to assume that you are simply lacking the ability to communicate effectively with rational human beings.
If that seems a bit blunt, please understand that from my perspective you have essentially lied about the story and made utterly nonsensical claims. That is not, nor ever will be, acceptable.
4675473 You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna delete all my other comments and leave it at: I don't like this story and gave it a thumbs down because I can't follow the reasoning of the characters re. their reactions.
A.G.
4676408
That's fine, because you are admitting it is your lack of understanding that lead to the original comment as opposed to any conformation, or lack thereof, to any literary and/or sociological rules.
Ow.
Fucking beautiful and emotionally evocative, but goddammit, did this hurt. I've only ever been on the fringe of troubled marriages and divorces, but this hit hard. A little difficult to follow at times (I read it twice over), but truly rewarding.
Have a like and a follow.
4773740 Thank you. I've said from the beginning that this was more something I needed to write more than wanted to write. Shades of personal experience and all that. I don't handhold much at the best of times and this even demanding even by those standards.
Funny though, it's my most contentious story by a mile, yet it continues to garner the most overall attention. There's gotta be something in that.
-Scott
Sorry to be that guy but i dont see romance in that at all
4873748 Why would you expect to see romance? It's not a romance story.
4874022 oh no not referring to you my friend told me this was romantic
4937882 Ahh, well, thank you for stopping by, then. I'm sorry you didn't find what you were looking for.