Endcap to "What About Discord?" Twilight confronts Discord as to his true motives for getting her friends to exclude her.
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- Member Since 11th Oct, 2013
- offline last seen Yesterday
alarajrogers
Okay, I admit it, I'm probably not your mom. But odds are I'm old enough to be. Now with Patreon account (under alarajrogers) and short stories on Amazon (under Alara Rogers).
alarajrogers
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I feel from your stories you don't like Twilight
6662997
You would be wrong. Twlight would be my self insert if she wasn't already a canon character. I identify very strongly with Twilight.
I also have a huge thing for adversarial shipping. Make of that what you will.
The Robert Frost reference made me think a story based on Fire and Ice could be really interesting with Discord.
I think I get why Twilight makes everyone antsy; she's in charge, and being in charge, even though she is Discord's friend, it's her duty to be responsible and remember he's also a huge *potential* threat, so she has to always remind herself what he is capable of doing and keep an eye on him. The others, like Spike in Discord's example, aren't going to undermine her by acting like these things aren't true, because Twilight doesn't really let people relax if she thinks it's important for them to be alert around someone.
I think he's telling the truth, and at least on a surface level, it's not at all personal. Him bringing Twilight to a weekend getaway would be like going on spring break when you were 21 with all your friends and your boy/girlfriend...and your father. It's not personal, it would just be a buzzkill, even if nothing bad was being planned.
Either I haven't read that one, I don't remember it, or it doesn't exist yet.
In any case, this is looking like a wonderful capstone to the episode. Eagerly looking forward to the rest of Discord's argument and Twilight's rebuttal.
So if I'm right twilights a buzzkill
Or her friends where being cold toward discord because twilight was there
You write amazing dialogue. It reads like a fast paced sparing match. I find myself tired at the end of it like I have been running to catch up with the story, which is kind of amazing. And as to adversarial shipping....is that why I found myself saying "just kiss already" to my screen 3/4 of the way through this? It does feel so opposites attract...and that neither of them would ever want to admit their interest to themselves let alone the other.
What a fun read, thank you!
6663223
It doesn't exist yet. Sad fact of life when you write multiple long stories in an ongoing continuity is that sometimes, you have to write something that happens after the end of something you haven't finished yet.
Excellently executed DS9 reference, and as always, excellent work. Discord's as charming and mercurial as ever.
The original episode underwhelmed me because Discord didn't seem to have any real motivation for his actions, even by his own standards. It looks like we're getting a chance here to explore that in more detail.
Discord doesn't seem to really have independent principles (at least that ponies can relate to), he's merely moved to feeling bound by a large number of friendships to behave well, instead of just one. Twilight wants to see him show more remorse, so she feels reassured he really has changed. I think Twilight is implicitly comparing Discord to Luna, who has definitely shown remorse.
It's a shame Discord wasn't a part of Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep. His perspective would have been interesting to say the least. That episode certainly showed the downside of remorse, and may demonstrate why he seems to be avoiding it so assiduously.
Well like you said this one does seem like a short affair but I really liked that snake coil moment at the end of the chapter.
6663868
Yeah. "No Escape From Yourself" deals pretty heavily with what happens when Discord is overwhelmed with remorse, and it's not pretty. Twilight doesn't want to see him have a near-breakdown like he does there -- his strategy for self-punishment was for once less destructive to others than Luna's was, but it was pretty ugly in its own right -- but even that was an episode of self-loathing because he knows he doesn't understand pony morality and most of what he loves is stuff they consider bad. He didn't stop thinking "Chaos is wonderful and I love it", he just jumped off from that into "And that is why I am awful and should destroy myself before I hurt my friends". Twilight wishes he would genuinely understand, in his heart, why some of this shit that he does is wrong, but I doubt he ever will -- it's too fundamental to who he is.
6663922 That's why I love that time you had him make Twilight read the book where she was forced to forswear friendship. Not books, not even magic, friendship itself, and she could only find a place in society by totally turning her back on the concept. I think that's the best in-universe metaphor for Discord's reformation I've ever read, and I still use it to try and guess at Discord's motivations in later episodes.
It occurs to me that the way that Twilight has happy experiences with her friends and the way in which Discord does are probably rather different, so Discord may actually have been right in arguing that Twilight would have been a huge wet-blanket. This is true even for somepony like Applejack, who is perhaps Twiilght's best friend among the Mane Six, in part because they share a lot of the same moral values. Discord would be someone she could be a little bit wild and crazy around without feeling guilty about it, because he'd be bringing out that side of her personality; Twilight, in contrast, is someone whom she feels is something of a Kindred Spirit and connects with on a very deep and mutually-respectful level. Discord's not her Kindred Spirit, but he's a heck of a lot of fun.
I was really expecting the episode to have either this same punchline at the end, or something like ''this is what it's like for me *all the time*''. Glad to see it get expanded on.
Found a typo.
You need a proofreader?
You referenced Deep Space Nine when Sisko punched Q. All the yes.
I swear he enjoys pushing Twilight's buttons.
He has a point, the universe can be WIERD. Besides, science can cause a lot of chaos, heck, experimentation, trying to see what'll happen if you do this, is pretty chaotic by nature as an idea.
She makes a good point.
I can imagine him meeting Starlight, the moment he knows what she did, oh god, there's a reason pissing off a reality warper is a bad idea.
He's right, being random for comedy usually only works if you have a straight man. Discord don't need no straight man.
To be fair, he's not a pony, he doesn't operate on pony morality at all, he's an immortal Spirit of Chaos, his mind is wired very differently from yours, you know that.
Very interesting.
And it's hilarious.
Well, a lot of his limbs ARE from carnivores and predators...
Oh he's good.
pretty cdamn cool so far
so excited for the next chapter then ^^
when is it going to come out?
6665052
Soon, I haven't switched off to a different story -- I'm still working on this one.
6663253 Not if you're right; if Discord's right. And given the way the story is going, he probably is. Twilight here doesn't think of Discord as a friend, and her friends pick up on that. Shame on her.
Twilight would certainly be a Sisko in the Trek universe given the number of times she's probably wanted to punch Discord.
6663868
This is actually explored in the IDW comics, though Discord only feels remorse towards certain ponies.
6666066 Discord is genuinely worried he might lose his surrogate wife and kids, but he doesn't have remorse as a whole. He's more worried if he behaves too well, Celestia will put him to work full time, or greedy business ponies will try and exploit his powers. (That was an awesome comic though. Definitely a good book-end to Tantabus.)
6666115
Well he did say he was afraid of hurting his surrogate family. "You saw what happened with Tirek." I think he does feel remorse, but only for select people. And it's kind of a self-loathing remorse. "I can't help what I am and I hate that I hurt other people because of it." He's got trust issues when it comes to the others. Which is rich coming from him, but eh.
6666132 It's not at all surprising that he's got trust issues. "A thief is the first person who locks their door."
6665063 okay awesome ^^
because i know that it takes a looooooooong time to get new chapters from you haha <3
you just have soo many storys haha and i want all of them O_O xD
6662997 In the episode "What About Discord?", Twilight totally got what she deserved 100%.
6663943 Discord doesn't have to forswear chaos, just extremely dangerous chaos
6670959 That's true, Discord is allowed to practice minor chaos, just not the really dangerous type. To continue the metaphor from earlier, it would be like if Twilight didn't have to forswear casual friendships, only really deep, close friendships.
The "why" here is a big question. Is it just because they act differently around Twilight? If so, why--is it because she is effectively their leader? Because she's a bit of a wet blanket when it comes to Pinkie-isms, and Discord would be even worse? Because being together as one subconsciously reminds them of when they were enemies? A desire to fit into what they think Twilight expects?
Or is it because of Twilight herself? Twilight hasn't exactly been welcoming of Discord in their few on-screen interactions this season, but considering that he in all likelihood would have crashed the Gala anyways and that Discord went out of his way to keep needling her this episode, those are extremely understandable. But considering her decision in Twilight's Kingdom, you'd think that Discord and Twilight would have had some positive interactions since then. I don't think--or maybe I just don't want to think?--that Twilight is preventing other ponies from befriending Discord.
6664628
But science is the study of the laws of nature. It is inherently orderly--even that which we perceive as "random" is simply governed by more factors than we could possibly keep track of, or even be aware of. Except for Chaos itself (I'm including Pinkie in that), everything follows strict, unbreakable laws. These laws might not be fully understood, but they are present nonetheless.
IRL, at least.
(although that does factor into a bit of headcanon--the Everfree Forest is the only place where nature works properly, but NOT because ponies have over-ordered the rest of the world; Discord broke how nature worked, and the Tree of Harmony is what kept the Everfree functioning 'normally', forcing ponies elsewhere to adapt to running nature themselves)
Awesome!
You made me dislike Twilight and then like her again! :-)
He makes a good point.
Oh really?
Yes, quite.
Oh dear...
I'm curious as well.
Considering the amount of times you've screwed with her just for kicks and that she was hit hardest by the events of Return of Harmony...
HAH!
SHOTS FIRED!
Clever.
Shocker.
Intereting...
Really?
He has a point, she likes animals, but she's not stupid.
Oi, puns.
He makes a point.
Twilight, ever heard of Blue and Orange Morality? Discord runs on it, he's not a pony, he's the Spirit of Chaos and DIsharmony, not his fault if he enjoys the stuff.
You may want to split this into 2 paragraphs, this is really big.
Discord, calm down...
Twilight, stop. You seem to forget that trying to set up an appointment or a date is pointless with Discord, Spirit of CHAOS, remember?
Thankfully. Not that I have anything against Fluttershy, but anymore and the world would die from too much cute.
He's right.
Aye...
Yes, I think she's rahter you NOT shove your rear in her face. That came out wrong.
It is.
Oh yeah.
I'd say take it while you can.
She has a point.
She told a joke. I don't believe it.
You MAGNIFICENT motherbucker.
Good improvement on the draft.
*applause*
Man I loved this. The little stuff (drama llama must be used on Rarity at later dates, and from the comics we know Applejack inherited her feud with Oranges from Granny Smith), but also the big stuff.
The fantastic analysis of Applejack and Rainbow Dash's group dynamic interactions, adorable filly Twilight somewhere on the spectrum, and of course finally a good and realistic description of how that weekend actually went.
I love the idea that the one variable Discord didn't account for is his own improvement as a friend, its sweet and very believable.
6694730
Fun fact: all of the evidence in this story of Twilight being on the spectrum is autobiographical, except the part about actually getting a voice coach, because I was not the personal student of the princess in charge of controlling the sun. :-) I was never actually diagnosed as a child because my grades were too good and I'm not sure Asperger's was even a diagnosis yet -- it was all lumped under autism, which was strongly associated with retardation, and the high-functioning autists weren't well -popularized yet -- but in retrospect it's pretty damn obvious. :-) I really did ask my dad why jokes were funny. Specifically I'd read joke books and ask him to analyze all the jokes for me, one at a time, when I didn't get them, which was all of them. Eventually he started just saying "It isn't funny", but then I'd ask what it was doing in a joke book.
6694869 I've always been unusual in that explaining a joke to me doesn't ruin it, I feel like I can appreciate the humor just as much from a careful study of an exploded view of the joke just as much as when it is presented to me spontaneously. So I've been in situations where I would ask my parents and others to explain jokes I couldn't get at first, and after detailed reflection I break out in laughter. Maybe some people just assign relatively low values for spontaneity versus other factors.
Also, I kind of like the voice coach idea for Twilight, it would explain how she has this kind of snotty monotone when we see her flashback with Moondancer, clearly she has just started working with her coach.
Well, that worked out beautifully. A massive improvement on the episode itself, a celebration of what it means, and a great bit of friendshipping between these two. Thank you for it.
6694952
I'm like that too. Even bad jokes like Why did the chicken cross the road? can be funny when you really get in-depth with the explanation.
It's funny because you've been conditioned to expect a really clever, punny answer (because that's how jokes work), so when you get a completely boring, obvious answer, this mild shock, this bait-and-switch, jams a gear in your brain for a split second, and you can't help but laugh at the fact that you fell for it, so to speak.
On the story itself, this was deliciously in-depth on both characters and their interactions with both each other and with other characters!
Awesome.
You know, for the longest time I've wanted to do a fic about how the mane six don't really seem to treat Discord as a friend. But I don't think anything I could ever do could out-perform the work you've done here.
Really well done, pretty much any Discord fic by you is a guaranteed good read.
6700143 Same for me I don't think jokes get less funny when you explain them and wasn't always good at understanding them.
Twilight Sparkle is not coincedentally my favourite character because I'm relatively similar.
I for one think they make a beautiful couple.
Eeee, there's more stories! You bring Discord to life in a way no one else really does. This was excellent.
I like this. It does what few Discord fics I've read bother to do: show both sides of the argument. In fact, most fics like this only show the side of the argument the author's on board with, and you, the reader, are expected to just go with it. And nine times out of ten I've been expected to side with an unsympathetic protagonist (i,e. the character who the author has sided with who is also derailed; and even if they aren't their opponent(s) are turned into complete asshats). And some of those times it has been Discord who I'm expected to sympathize with, when both the author and the show haven't given me many, if any reasons to side with him.
All of the reasons I have to not do so were addressed in this fic. They were addressed and explained away in a way I could actually believe. Most writers would gladly beat you half to death with why Discord is an absolute angel and he has done no wrong, not in Season 2 nor in Season 4 or 5. They would characterize Twilight in just such a way to lift up Discord ever higher on a pedestal.
Both sides were handled completely well, the argument didn't seem one-sided at all, and this came out both convincingly. I felt like I was reading an actual story and not an author tract. This is one of the few Discord fics I've upvoted and faved.
6739480
Thanks. I know your opinion of Discord, so I appreciate that. And I'm not, personally, a fan of "Discord is a perfect angel" fanfics, because if I wanted to read about a perfect angel I wouldn't be a fan of Discord. I love him because he's a train wreck who combines the wisdom of an ancient and powerful spirit with the total cluelessness of a hyperactive and obnoxious eight year old. If Discord isn't wrong a significant part of the time in a fanfic, the fanfic is probably doing him wrong.
I like balanced arguments where both sides have good points. Also, Twilight Sparkle's existence saves me from ever having to create a self-insert in this fandom, because I identify with her, very strongly. So while Discord may be my favorite, Twilight is practically my ponysona. :-) I do have a few fics where she's basically wrong, but they were from very, very early days of his reformation where her problem was that she wasn't perceiving him as a person (when you perceive someone as a villain, you're basically saying their life revolves around making your life more unpleasant. Even if they are a bad, bad person and irredeemable, that's never true; they are always a person, doing what they do for their own personal reasons, and understanding those reasons is key to understanding how to defeat them, counter them, or turn them into an ally or friend. Discord is basically the only entity Twilight has ever plainly failed to do this with -- everyone else, she either does befriend, or they are never proven to be befriendable. Discord's the only one who can be converted into an ally where Twilight didn't think of doing it and was resistant to trying. For very good reasons; what he did to her was personal and nearly devastating. Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer didn't hurt her nearly as badly.) For most of the stuff I write where they interact, Discord's either almost completely wrong, or he's partially right but so abrasive about it he might as well be wrong. :-) Of course, Twilight frequently mishandles him and makes the situation worse, but she can hardly be blamed for that; he's really hard to deal with.
More likely than not only when she's drunk
Well, they jokes were so immensely corny in that episode that pretty much everyone in the audience was anticipating mind control was the only possible explanation.
Either that or AJ was stupider than usual. Confounded background ponies.
6678686 You're forgetting that none of the ponies other than Fluttershy had EVER reacted positively to Discord before this episode. Dash was outright antagonistic in every single previous episode.
Frankly, the episode didn't do a very good job setting itself up... and then the reveal that Discord HAD planned the whole thing just reaffirmed the audience's suspicions and ended up making Twilight's suspicions justified.
It tried to be a complicated story, but lacked the nuances needed to pull it off believably.
6666150 Either that or someone who knows of the existence of thieves...
Foreknowledge does not imply one has taken the actions one seeks to prevent.
I have never been struck by lightning, yet I know to take shelter during a storm. If a mind lacks the ability to contemplate and prevent danger before it occurs, then it may never survive the actual experience.
Twilight smirked, "Actually, Discord, the major difference this time was the writer."
Discord choked and spluttered disbelievingly, "How could you-?! You're not even Pinkie!"
Twilight yawned and continued, "Honestly, all of them suddenly finding you delightful after just a few days? Please, how plausible is that, really? I could understand them perhaps warming up to you a bit more, but only Plot Amnesia could possibly explain them tossing aside the memories of your first appearance AND the betrayal to Tirek. Once bitten, twice shy; you know!"
Discord edged away. The puny purple pony princess COULDN'T have become this aware! It wasn't possible! "How... HOW CAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A CARTOON?!"
"Wellll, while I was in the Astral Plane thing, this weird guy suddenly showed up riding Pinkie and explained everything."
media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/01/6c/75/016c758321a23cc0627e1212a97a3adb.jpg
Discord frowned, "Damn you Deadpool..."
(If there's one thing that annoys me... among the whole encyclopedia of the annoying things... it's when someone expects me to take a weakly written episode this seriously.)