Just... wow

Dude... so no happy ending, not even when the princesses can stop this? What a let down of a plot. Excellent epilogue

I'm not entirely sure if I've ever gone buuuuullllshiiiiiiiit more eye-rollingly in my entire life.

The universe prevents them from getting their asses kicked?! That sucks majorly.

*just applauds. a mighty "fuck Yes" said on this end* I am very very impressed. All of it wrapping up nicely. True I wished some things changed but only because this story, one of my first dark fics on this site I read, has given me much enjoyment. Not much can be said on how well you made sense. Balance is the one thing that rings the most true. I give you a hat tip and a bow.

Damn this is getting convoluted.

Celestia allows the circle to live at her discression as a 'lesser of two evils' bargin, mixed in a solid dash of cowardice against losing Luna again.
Could also mean that Celesia will activly impede Twilight's plans.

Perfect idea on balance, that evil is needed to define good, and that within the good there is some evil and vice versa (personified by the symbol of the yin-yang). Celestia knowlingly allows evil to occur, for the sake of the greater good.

I've said it before, but will say it again. No other author I had read had been able to turn such a disturbing concept into such a well written character driven story.

That's.........a depressing ending.

Still, considering that this has been Silver's story right from the start I'm calling it now that the next story will be her using her natural talents to incite a revolution among the poor and destitute she's been cast among. After all, Fancy Pants is decidedly her enemy and it's entirely likely for most of the missing foals to be from the kind of district she's in.

That's a nice place you chose to build your mansion Fancy. Now BURN!

1404896 I agree with ya there. While I understand that the world needs disharmony, this one organization is not and cannot be the deciding factor. Obviously Celestia doesn't realize that it's already spread beyond Canterlot's walls and that she's doing a horrible job of limiting it. All I can say is that she's a pussy, for lack of a better word. If it had been the circle that reset the balance, then it wouldn't have been Nightmare Moon that had come back, it would have been Luna. After all the research she apparently did, you'd think she would notice something like that.

In.Ter.Est.ING, mon ami. This was quite deep.

Awesome story. Even made me cry several times.

1405685
If it was not Celestia, but Chrysalis, she'd stomp every circle member already. And not only because QC is a cool queen, who isn't afraid of anything for the sake of her subjects: paedophiles can't build healthy relationship with adults => they can't love, and that makes them useless food for changelings.

Headcanon: Dark Equestria can be fixed by replacing PC with QC.

1405968 Aye. Queen Chrysalis is best love sucker. She could fix it all. Useless Celestia is useless.

celestia you selfish bich

1405968

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Chrysalis and her Changelings feed on love, which is merely a strong emotional energy, I'd think another would be hate. Fancy Pants and the Circle really love harming foals to feel the excess of their elitist power which cause foals to give off an equal amount of hatred. Why would Chrysalis stop it if it kept her children fed? Not all love is pure love nor do the changelings need it to be. It just so happened Shiny and Cadence had that type. You need the face of a "perfect" Equestria so badly that you'd forsake the goddess' in favor of a succubus? There are implications there I cannot address.

Anyhow Ham! I love the idea of the complexities which would naturally arise in a situation like this and with this chapter you've handled them masterfully. Luna and Celestia's conversation was so well thought and executed. The world (ours that is) has these same sort of misfortunes happening right now and sad though it may be governments know darknet is out there, and allow 'adventure clubs' to visit Cambodia/Thailand, but does squat to stop these people simply because it cost too much money and it'd only be a matter of time before perverts cropped up ruining kids in their own country. In any case it makes for the best sort psychological play it just makes me feel so many dark and awesome feels.Stick with your vision and I know I will enjoy what's coming.

I think the reasoning for maintaining the group was kinda silly. It would have been more believable with the reason that the destruction of Canterlot Elite would cause economic chaos. Regardless, thank you for not ending this fic with some paltry happy ending. I hope the second fic in the series doesn't as well.

YES!
THE CONCLUDING STORY IS COMING ON MY BIRTHDAY!!!!!
THANK YOU HAMGRAVY FOR THE AWESOME BIRTHDAY PRESENT!!!!!!!

wow.... just... wow
this was truly a piece of art... ok, sick and twisted, but still...
I can't wait for the next part of the story!

And now for the longest response post in the history of ever.

1404896

I'm not entirely sure if I've ever gone buuuuullllshiiiiiiiit more eye-rollingly in my entire life.

Oh, dear. I'd love to hear you elaborate on that, if you're so inclined. But it looks like you and Peppy are on the same wavelength here:

1405685

If it had been the circle that reset the balance, then it wouldn't have been Nightmare Moon that had come back, it would have been Luna.

The way I envision this working is that it's almost like a natural law: an opposite reaction to an overabundance of harmony or discord. The factors causing the imbalance don't just pop out of existence, but something can be introduced that is likely to tip the scales. That's why, for example, the sisters discovered the Elements of Harmony at just the right time, as opposed to Discord simply ceasing to exist because he'd tipped the balance too far.

The whole idea sprung from this image in the very first episode:
i47.tinypic.com/jp8vo3.jpg

And the narration that plays over it: "Thus the two rulers maintained balance for their kingdom and their subjects..."

(Incidentally, I hope you don't think I'm trying to play the "see? the show supports my fanfic!" card. It bugs me when people do that. You are free to disagree with this ending, and I'm certainly not going to try to push my views on you. But I think you should see where the concept originated.)

Oh, and in case anyone is worried: this cosmic balance stuff is not going to take over the narrative or anything. It's important, yes, but this is still a story about characters first, and that's not going to change.

1406435

Stick with your vision and I know I will enjoy what's coming.

Thanks so much for the encouragement, Rar1ty. I know I can't please everyone, but sometimes I'm tempted to try, even though I know that is a huge mistake for any writer. Don't worry: I have a plan, and I'm sticking to it.

1409309
Well, hey, happy birthday, then! Your presents are a homeless Silver Spoon and Twist being forced into sex slavery. Man, this is a weird party.

1416786

I'd love to hear you elaborate on that, if you're so inclined.

Oh dear. Now I've got to.

(Not that I wasn't already going to write an essay on this before this fractured that, mind.)

My contention is primarily thematic, which is a great way of saying it turned really hokey. Up to this point, every single tragedy has been out of simple human (pony, if we're going to split hairs) weakness, deception in particular; Twilight lies to herself about Rarity, Silver Spoon is Silver Spoon, Twist and Pipsqueak are both misled by Rarity and the Circle mislead themselves into believing their worth above society. There is no reason for this to happen other than humanity (ponanity?) itself, which creates a sense of actual, real tragedy.

And then the cosmology fucks the whole thing up the arse. It turns whatever rage I might have had at any character into a general sort of annoyance about the setting itself, which really gives it more of a shallow My Little Dashie sort of feeling than anything else. It's a shame, of course; Celestia just having been bullshitting Luna would have been brilliant, but that's clearly not the case.

While I certainly am filled with unending praise for the series itself, I can't possibly say anything good on this particularity; I apologise.

1416786

The way I envision this working is that it's almost like a natural law: an opposite reaction to an overabundance of harmony or discord. The factors causing the imbalance don't just pop out of existence, but something can be introduced that is likely to tip the scales. That's why, for example, the sisters discovered the Elements of Harmony at just the right time, as opposed to Discord simply ceasing to exist because he'd tipped the balance too far.

1417506

And then the cosmology fucks the whole thing up the arse. It turns whatever rage I might have had at any character into a general sort of annoyance about the setting itself, which really gives it more of a shallow My Little Dashie sort of feeling than anything else. It's a shame, of course; Celestia just having been bullshitting Luna would have been brilliant, but that's clearly not the case.

Myself, I've never seen the explanation presented in this chapter as anything more than some sort of Celestia's trauma-fueled misconceptions concocted to explain to herself why she lost her sister. That is because the reasoning she presents is too fallacious for me to accept, just look:

“Balance, Luna,” Celestia continued. “The fundamental element on which everything else depends. Including the two of us.”

Golden mean fallacy, especially in conjunction with

“Yes,” said Celestia. “Equestria was a land of perfect harmony. And what opposes harmony?”

“Discord,” said Luna, in a whisper of realization.

Harmony is a sort of balance in itself. A balance between order and chaos is just another type of order.

How else can we explain the fact that the physical embodiment of chaos suddenly appeared to menace a land of perfect order?

Correlation doesn't imply causation, plus a physical embodiment of chaos is not something that can be controlled or subject to laws of universe, whatever they would be. So it's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

for Equestria to thrive, we must allow some evil to flourish.

See, even if we assume that Celestia's retarded anti-karma is a law of nature like gravity, I refuse to believe evil needs to be tended to like a potted plant, and if that too turned out to be true, that there is absolutely no lesser pet evil that could be picked. Besides, the good-evil balance reasoning is just as fallacious as when it was applied to harmony and discord, which I dealt with above.

So, in the light of the above, I think it is reasonable to say that the princesses know shit about how the universe works, and are just miserable people. Naturally, I made assumptions based on how our universe works, but it's easier to swallow than anti-karma being equivalent to gravity, I believe.

1417506

While I certainly am filled with unending praise for the series itself, I can't possibly say anything good on this particularity; I apologise.

No need to apologize for having an opinion about something. I do want to clarify one thing, though:

Your objection seems to be coming from the assumption that no one in this story is responsible for their actions anymore; that we can chalk up all their terrible (terrible, terrible) life choices to the work of the cosmos. That's certainly not the case. Everyone is still completely in control of their actions and always has been. All the universe does (according to Celestia at least) is throw a monkey wrench into things when they naturally drift too far from the balanced path. So please don't think that anyone in this story can get away with saying "the universe made me do it!" That's not the case. Even Celestia is only keeping the balance out of the selfish, very "human" desire to not lose her sister again.

Everyone in the story still has free will (suck it, determinism!) and most of them are still proving they can't really be trusted with it.

1417713

See, even if we assume that Celestia's retarded anti-karma is a law of nature like gravity

Well, this is a universe where friendship, which is at least as empirically measurable and easily definable a concept as evil, is universally recognized as a powerful energy that acts as a fuel source for big crown thingies.

Does that mean Celestia is right about everything? Or anything? Not necessarily. But I think Equestria is the kind of place where such a theory would at least have to be investigated, even if it were being put forth by someone who wasn't supreme ruler of the land.

Thanks for the spirited discussion.

LOVE.

1421888

That... name...

1419014
It's not so much a question of free will as it is a question of whether evil must exist; a great deal of the horror was in that evil had no justification but itself, and could be stopped without any consequence not enforced by human beings (and ponies). Evil as a social construct, unjustifiable on any level, is far more terrifying than evil as a primal force.

While Equestria is indubitably deterministic to some extent, the entire fact that any sort of evil must exist is the equivalent of putting a gun to someone's head and calling it a consensual business relationship when they hand over a wallet.

1422914
Ah, I see. Well, I can definitely see where you're coming from them. Personally I find it scarier if evil is something which can't ever be destroyed, because it's too deeply wound into the framework of things. I don't think that's entirely mutually exclusive with the social construct view of evil, especially since none of the Circle members know about the balance, and nothing is compelling them to act this way beside their own sick desires.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but I hope this doesn't wreck your enjoyment of other aspects of the story (past and future.)

1423930

Personally I find it scarier if evil is something which can't ever be destroyed, because it's too deeply wound into the framework of things.

You don't need to make it a fundamental force in the universe for it to be so. Evil is a consequence of certain traits, desires, motivations and conflicts emerging when those clash, either within individuals or between them.

1423930
I guess I'm looking at it more as a 'berate the author for his lack of verisimilitude' perspective than anything.

That being said, I doubt I'll like the story much less. I certainly can hardly wait to see how it goes on.

1424593

That being said, I doubt I'll like the story much less. I certainly can hardly wait to see how it goes on.

Well, that is good to hear!

Frankly, a good berating is healthy for me every now and then. Keeps me from getting too full of myself. Thank you (and Peppy, and Ausch) for the excellent critiques.

Never have I been so interested in a story than when I first started reading this one. I have become a huge fan of your wrighting, you certinly are a talented auther. Truly I can not wait for the next story that you write. Well done.

1422292
Yes?

Loved it and ate it up like salad (my favorite) ... until the last chapter and cheesy epilogue. Also a bit miffed that it ended without "resolution" but since it started with another story I'm guessing this is the "Act II" – or "The Empire Strikes Back" part – where all the good guys get beaten to their lowest points. I can think of you as "the young George Lucas" so it's a compliment.

Ch. 14 took way too long to reveal the choice, really strained my patience. As for the epilogue, well, though I wouldn't choose the same wording exactly 1417713 and other summed up my feelings. Don't think I'm going to hang on for the next story in the series unless you promise both that it will have an actual ending (happy or not) and that the philosophy of the universe will be kept in check. (Whereas your philosophy on personal behavior and thought, especially demented-to-insane like the sisters' talk in chapter 6.)

But thanks for the wicked fun ride up until then.

1437200

I can think of you as "the young George Lucas" so it's a compliment.

Oh god. I don't want to think about what might happen if I ever become the old George Lucas.

"WELCOME TO TWISTED SPECIAL EDITION. NOW READ TWISTED THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE READ! FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS SCENE WHERE RARITY MOLESTS PIP, I ALWAYS INTENDED TO HAVE JABBA THE HUT STANDING IN THE BACKGROUND. LOOK AT HIM CLAP HIS LITTLE HANDS. NOW THANKS TO THE MAGIC OF EXPENSIVE CGI, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! EXCEPT DECENT PREQUELS."

Okay, enough time spent visiting the worst of all possible worlds.

Don't think I'm going to hang on for the next story in the series unless you promise both that it will have an actual ending (happy or not) and that the philosophy of the universe will be kept in check.

If you check out my most recent blog post you'll see that the next story is indeed the finale of the series (with an ending and everything!) It's called A Silver Sky and will be here on Monday October 22nd.

As for the philosophy of the universe: I can't promise that it's gone for good, but now that it's all laid out (love it or hate it) it's never going to get as much attention as it did in Epilogue II again. These ideas are by no means at the center of the narrative, but they will help drive Celestia and Luna's actions in the next story, though perhaps not (if I've done my job well) in ways you may expect. If that's too much for you and you still intend to jump ship, then I understand. You'll be missed as a reader, but you have my sincerest thanks for reading this far.

Incidentally, the kitchen table exchange between Rarity and Sweetie is my favorite scene in the whole story, so I'm glad it stood out for you!

1437763
Definitely meant as a compliment, but maybe a warning too. When I started to gain popularity years ago it went to my head. (A few people had separately told me I was "the Edgar Allan Poe of lemons," but now I'm not sure that was ever meant as a compliment.) Look at me now...

So I went down the wrong road (which intersects with many other wrong roads), trying too hard to be smart and symbolism and sometimes go to great pains to make a point. And trying to force symbolism into your story is the polar bear that received a computer-science degree from Berkely at the same moment his favorite rollercoaster tried to use the sun itself as his Monopoly game piece and turned the world into pudding. However, when it occurs as a natural result of good characterizations and plot, then it's so brilliant that people will find the meanings that you never consciously realized yourself.

Well, if Pip had been selected then basically he'd have been trapped forever, just without carbonite's blessing of unconsciousness. There are fetishes where the object must stay perfectly still (apart from necrofillyia) except when posed. Obviously that can't happen when their whole body is rock hard.

That scene was my favorite too, or at least the one that I found most compelling of all. As I was telling someone (also known as trying to get them to read the story) that, while the idea of that conversation isn't new, the way they talked about it, especially as Sweetie Belle started to realize what Rarity meant, it was much more profound to hear it straight from the pony's mouth.

Okay, I'll give "A Silver Sky" a fair chance (and perhaps "Tarnished Silver" in the meantime). I may need to get a small battery pack with USB charger to bring on my walks with me because there's nothing worse than being in the middle of a good chapter when the battery shuts down. Especially if I still have a few miles to go.

Oh
My
Gosh

The feels
They double-ca-triple overloaded.

I really like this ending more than the ending I thought it was going to have. As the chapter started I thought Luna was going to have repressed memories of Celestia molesting her and looking up at that twilight ceiling as it happened, and her rage over it being what truly turned her into nightmare moon. This was a much better reason, your writing is impeccable (though I do feel very wrong reading it) and I cant wait for the next part.

Now back to lurking.

1497201

But I was actually disappointed when didn't clean the dildo.

I like humiliation, too (can you tell?) but I just couldn't bring myself to make her do it. I decided to give the poor girl a break, especially since I already knew she was going to get choked half to death in the next chapter.
And also, I don't really like that subject matter either, and didn't want to write about it any more than I had to.

1458435

Your going to fuck me!

I...I am? This is so sudden! I just met you!
Well, okay...promise you won't be gentle.

Loving the Tarnished Silver series, I look forward to more.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! As sick as this was... it makes a shit-ton of sense

You know. I find this concept interesting, yet at the same time, I think that the princesses need to take a careful look at what they stand for. Its kind of like that one Doctor Who episode (The waters of mars I think) where the Doctor nearly gives up due to him not being able to change a fixed point in time. He then proceeds to realize that he is the last of the timelords and he controls time. So he goes against the universe, just to do whats right.

1592739
Well, thank you! I often wondered what sort of reaction this would get from someone who isn't inclined to enjoy the subject matter. Your very well written comments provide a fine answer. I'm glad you enjoyed the parts you enjoyed, particularly the star sequence, which was an idea that I initially dismissed for being too sentimental, but which simply would not leave me alone until I included it. In retrospect, I'm very glad I did.

1616535 Because "I'm sticking to the letters of the deal with devil and can evade all bad things in it" trick is too old and predictable and shows lack of common sense and foresight by character who actually made a contract.

Which is kind of strange, because such characters are usually portrayed as quite smart characters, who should have thought of such details.

1802347
Your dedication to cleaning up my little grammar mistakes is quite humbling. Thank you! I'm going to correct these tomorrow.

Incidentally, though, most of the grammar errors in dialog (such as "I've got this stupid lisp") are intentional. Narration should conform to proper grammar (unless it has a good excuse) but dialog should conform to the character's voice. Twist, like most children, does not speak with impeccable grammar.

>“'Canterlot society',” Luna scoffed. “I believe I've seen quite enough of what your 'Canterlot Society' is capable of.”
Please be consistent. Either "society" has a capital S, or it has a lowercase S. It can not be both.

1802402

That awkward moment when you've been reading a Silver Sky...and just now realize Twisted has an epilogue

1928654

I hope the next chapter includes lots of rape/torture.

Oh man, I think you're going to like the next two chapters.

I'm kind of hoping that it turns out that Celestia is really a member of the circle. I don't like the idea that she would place her own desires, whatever they may be, above other ponies lives without being evil.

2071183
And you just expect everyone to know that? I'm sorry, but I'm not a huge fan of Tumblr blogs in general so I don't know all the in-jokes, therefore I interpreted it as hateful and insulting, even if that was not the intent. Your intent has nothing to do with how others might interpret it, so it technically is still his fault. If you want to reference something, do it harmlessly, even in my fic (Chocolate Syrup and Lemonade) where I drop references to just about everything and cover it with sadistic randomness, I'm not offensive. Give it a look.

that was deep. like wow, i was bordering on hate and pure animosity towards this, but now i look forward to reading the sequel

That was amazing I felt so many different emotions reading this, it was... Truly, I cried. I was sure it would be a relief for me if Sweetie Belle didn't get taken from Rarity (Why do I not hate her in this fic? Maybe it's just because it's Rarity and I love her), but I still bawled the second I saw who it was. Plus I love how the relationship between Luna and Celestia reflected Rarity and Sweetie's relationship (or maybe it was just me). I never really cared about, or really even thought about Silver Spoon before, but this has made me see her differently and love her Normally I don't let fanfiction effect my view of the fandom like that, but this just made my heart burst for her and, of course, the other characters. Especially for her for some reason

Anyway, this is so well thought out, and I hope that once I get my shit together I can write something half as good as this

I suppose the best way to comment on this story is to explain my physical reaction to it.
I started out sitting upright, just reading along as normal.
By the time it got to the chapter where the four foals were each talking in their own voice, I was lounged out across my chair, twirling a cigarette between two fingers and giggling at how Twist's concept of sexuality had been twisted around by growing up on beefcake romance novels.
At some point, I started reading Rarity's lines allowed, with one arm thrust toward the sky and throwing as much dramatic flourish into them as possible.
At Pip's petite mort, I released a belly laugh so deep and rich I'm certain it sought out the nearest bookshelf to resound against, scattering dust and startled insects. The word pompadour has never seemed inherently funny to me before, I do not think I shall survive if I ever encounter one in real life now.
Silver Spoon's mutilation found me sipping on a neat bourbon, which was quite difficult since I was nearly horizontal at this point, one of my leg's thrust under the armrest and the other dangling over it.

And then this chapter. I suppose it was a fortunate break, as otherwise I might have plowed right into the next story and, while I have no idea what the next step in my transformation would have been, I am afraid that it might have involved pornographic woodcuts or a gold watch chain.
All the same, I get that you're saying, "Celestia isn't necessarily right." Except that since she only appears at the very end of the story after having done nothing else, it comes across as you using her as a mouthpiece. So, yeah, it was annoying and kind of broke the flow, but I suppose something had to break the flow eventually.

Intensely fun. I look forward to seeing these creatures squirm in their next outing, although I'll have to detox with something else for a bit before then.