• Member Since 20th Jun, 2012
  • offline last seen Sunday

HamGravy


Author of the Tarnished Silver series. I write clopfics with too many emotions in them. My work is very niche, but my readers are a wonderfully enthusiastic bunch, so I must be doing something right.

Sequels1

Comments ( 118 )

The title and the description somewhat remind me of one of the most popular MLP grimdarks in existence, one that I think many of us already know the name of, so I'll leave you to guess.

I will look into this, it seems like it has some promise in it.

I really, really shouldn't be intrigued by this, but I am. Well written!

847848 It's Cherilee's garden. He's talking about Cheerilee's garden.

Wow, I loved this. Depressing, but that's why it's great. Good work :coolphoto:

847848
847950

Believe it or not, I've never heard of Cheerilee's Garden! I'll have to look into it now.

Actually, I should mention that this story was partly inspired by Von Aschenbach's story Butterfly.

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/33749/Butterfly

So far, so good! I've actually never heard of Cheerilee's Garden, so I am unsure if this is a rip off or not. But I don't know, so for what it is it's good! :raritywink:

That was. . .demented. Very nice.

This is impeccably written like your other stories. I was expecting this one to be as soul-crushingly deperessing as Tarnished Silver. :fluttercry:

Cheerilee's Garden is awesome. :rainbowkiss: Fair warning, though: GRIMDARK. AS. FUCK.

So... why/ I never got the impression that Rarity was anything that commonly is attributed to her like a racist, a paedophile or a murderer. Or even a sadist or domme. It just confuses me. Especially since Celestia should be able to detect it immediately after a thousand years of being alive. It's just very odd. :rainbowhuh:

I haven't read any of your other stories, and probably won't end up reading them, because this was incredibly disturbing. Regardless, it was very well written, so thumbs up.

847848 I dont know it. Tell me , you whore.

Also, waht does Grimdark mean? Urban Dictionary had nothing, so im guessing you made it up.

849147 Grimdark is the term for FiM stories that are dark or violent and often very disturbing, graphic depictions of rape, torture, death. Things like Cupcakes, Sweet apple massacre, Cheerilee's Garden, Story of the Blanks, etc

Many of them are quite well written.

849147

'Didn't make it up, it's a term that's commonly used here that hasn't been defined on UD yet...

Grimdark means an incredibly dark story, bad things happen to the main characters, even death. In the end, evil triumphs over good and the bad guy is the one who wins. It kinda goes ahead and says "Fuck You!" to happy endings...A prime example would be the fic that I had people guess (Which most of them got): Cheerilee's Garden.


Onto your story, HamGravy, I read it, and I would have to say that it was pretty freakin' good! I always like a dark, sad story, and this managed to hit the spot. Your other stories also seem equally as interesting, and I will look into those. Have a like and a favorite :ajsmug:

848467
Celestia is not omniscient, though. She's not like how Christians see their God. She didn't know that "Cadence" was Chrysalis, for example. She wasn't aware of Twilight's putting Ponyville into chaos over a doll in order to have a lesson to write to her about, either. She only arrived cause Spike wrote her a letter. So the fact that something like this would be going on would slip through unless another pony told her about it.

850328

And of course that leads to the other problem: perfect conspiracies aren't. Watergate was ruined by a security guard; Scientology got ruined by hubris; The plot of 1933 was exposed by one of the intended conspirators. Dumb luck and people with a conscience or an agenda will always break the "perfect" plans of conspirators. And the more that are added the more chances there are for catastrophic failure. Especially with smething this Hannibal Lecter-ish. Someone will crack and plea themselves out for reduced sentencing or a better incarceration facility inexchange for very telling testimony.

850456
True to a point. But some things can go on for decades without anything getting pinned down first. Not everything can be cracked, or will be cracked in a short amount of time. And the guilty aren't always brought to justice. Some serial killers took years to bring down. Something like this? Sorry, but I know real life stories worse than this that have gone on for 14 years before anything happened. Either a judge is in the pocket and the case is tossed, or a high-ranking official is paid to look the other way. Sorry, but it happens.

850456
Note that this rendition of Rarity is little of a conspirator. If anything, she is more like Josef Fritzl. Who went on undetected for twenty years.

850584

The "conspiracy" label comes fromthe implication that stallions are involved in the abuse. Each one involved is a new weak link. As well, if foals go missing or suddenly change personalities so drastically there will come external constables, federal or the equivalent, the type that don't buck around.

850707
But there is no indication of the scale on which this happens. Besides, if they are like-minded individuals(read: foalphiles), they would have little interest in reporting. Of course, a screwup is still possible, but it doesn't mean it's bound to happen. Finally, I believe HamGravy's intent was to explore foalphile Rarity's fucked up personality, not write a crime story.

851109

I know. But when I really despise a premise I willingly unsuspend disbelief and punish it on the rack of formal logic until it shrieks it's own contrivance.

851473
Hah. Fair enough.

And to drag this just a little bit further, you assume that if something is possible, it must happen. Isn't that way of reasoning faulty in itself?

850707
Some of this is dealt with in one of my other stories (Silver Spoon's Mark; whee, free plug!) I don't give it a huge amount of attention (because it's not the focus of the story) but suffice to say that Rarity has some powerful friends.

Also, it's worth pointing out that we know the names of all these killers because they were caught. We still don't know the identity of Zodiac, Jack the Ripper, and several others. And the track record is even worse with rapists. The sad fact is, in the real world, the vast majority of rapists (of adults or children) are never brought to justice.

Okay, now I'm a bit sad. Off to hug someone.

852241

I also happen to be a very big fan of Silver Spoon (and Diamond Tiara to an extent) so all my protective paternal I stincts combine with the mind of an armchair logician and general curmugeon to make a perfect storm of more-than-petulance-less-than-invective. I mostly felt like a grump and thought MAYBE Rarity was deus ex-ing her machina'tions through a GM-Fiat shield.

You're some kind of insane awesomeness.

This just,....no, I REALLY HATE GRIMDARK that changes the characters personality drasticlly
Other than my hate for stuff like this, I read it because the way you write, excellent,
I commend you for your style and your story(Even if I do hate grimdark :P)

852553

Actually, I'd say that Rarity's actions here are disturbingly plausible.

Points to bear in mind:

1: This Rarity is... well... exactly that. She's quite the rare beast in Equestria; most ponies wouldn't necessarily have the frramework to conceive of what she's doing. The same innocence that she loathes in others also helps to shield her, because the sort of monster that she is would be an utterly alien concept. I could be wrong about the author's conception of Equestria, but it's the mental default I work with since it seems to be the one from the show (a concept that I'm playing with in some stories of my own.)

2: Further, there actually is a chink in the armor of Rarity's perfect little world. Ignoring Silver Spoon, whose devotion to her Mistress makes it unlikely that she'll do anything but wallow in degradation until nothing is left to degrade, and even ignoring Diamond Tiara, who has already exposed Rarity by telling Silver Spoon about it, there's always the danger posed by her other 'pet,' Sweetie Belle. At the very end of Tarnished Silver, it appears that Sweetie may well be teetering on the brink of a breakdown that could expose Rarity's horrors for everypony to see. Assuming that anypony believes her (see point 1).

3: This is the point where I start discussing IRL situations, and where those who are tender of disposition should probably stop reading if they don't want to hear about real world atrocities and conspiracies. You're absolutely right that there seems to be a natural proclivity for the universe to expose conspiracies, but look at the type of conspiracies exposed. Typically conspiracies conducted among people who are doing something unusual to them, and exposed when they attempt to bring in people to whom the activity is even more alien.

Case in point? Watergate. The guys who broke into the Watergate weren't especially competent B&E artists. They got caught by a security guard who refused to engage in illegal behavior himself - being a simple security guard, and not somebody connected to the CIA, the idea of engaging in that sort of activity was less acceptable to him than to the initial conspirators.

By contrast? MK Ultra went on for well over a decade before finally being exposed by people who broke into the Pentagon and stole documents related to it. There are still threads from those experiments that may have not been exposed. Similarly, Operation Snow White is still getting the Church of Scientology favorable tax treatment that even other legitimate religious organizations don't get. And those are the results of exposed conspiracies, where people were engaging in unusual (to them) criminal activity.

When you take a look at the Victorian era, you find that sexual abuse, particularly in the boarding school system, was almost endemic. This has since become a historically proven fact; at the time, it was the sort of thing that nobody could imagine, and those involved simply considered it part of "how things were done" that didn't warrant exposing. Even past victims, who would later send their own children to the same boarding schools where they themselves had been abused.

Similarly, Rarity's position would likely be that of a 'procuress' for the wealthy and powerful... a position widely known to exist in pre-Revolution France among Libertines such as De Sade. Certainly, it was illegal, but in a monarchy it's very difficult for people to raise such charges against those with more wealth and power than they have... or against those protected by such people. Rarity isn't the top end of this conspiracy, she's practically the bottom rung, with nobody beneath her but her victims (a fact that may even not be lost on her). She'll have people with money and power backing her up, and keeping each other 'honest.'

Hypothetically, let's say that Rarity's associates from Sweet and Elite are in on this, just to offer some names. Jett Sett and Upper Crust? They don't consider anything they're doing to be wrong, though they know that their "lessers" simply don't understand that ponies of their social echelon have the "right" to do things like that. But let's say that Jett gets caught some time; he tries to bring in somepony like Silver's mother, and rather than simply being revolted and leaving (as happened in Tarnished Silver) she goes to the police.

The police, assuming they react and aren't bought off by Jett Sett, or even Fancy Pants or others in their circle, arrest Jett. Let's assume that they don't go for the obvious conclusion that this is an isolated incident by an isolated deviant, and they offer Jett a deal for exposing anypony who helped him. What they don't know is that Jett knows what he's dealing with. If he exposes anypony, then he's on the outs with the social group. Even if he just picks another scapegoat, like Rarity, her clients will be royally pissed at him - and those clients outrank him. For all he knows, the judge who's handling this sentencing is one of those clients, and he'll end up with a harsher sentence "because the severity of his crimes far outweigh any use he may have been to law enforcement."

And the judge wouldn't be acting to protect some shadowy conspiracy - he'd be acting because he considers Jett a loathsome betrayer of his social status and the unwritten social contract that he 'signed' to 'join the club.' Or, for that matter, just because he was that disgusted by what Jett had done, and wasn't part of the conspiracy at all. Even if he did get a reduced sentence, Jett would have to deal with knowing that very wealthy, very powerful ponies - none of whom he knows - now have every reason to want him dead.

And, in a monarchical system, many of them would have the legal power and clout to do whatever they wanted with him, because the only accountability is what's above him. Somepony would have to take it to Celestia or Luna's level in order to avoid the risk of having somepony who could go over their heads... and that's assuming that we're not dealing with a Molestia/Lunaughty universe, where they'd be in on it.

Unbelievable? It's certainly a stretch, the sort of thing that most people wouldn't believe could happen. Which, ironically, is why some people still believe the claims of Mark Dutroux, a Belgian serial rapist and murderer who has claimed that the police incompetence that let him function for years wasn't simple incompetence - it was motivated because he was a "handler" for a ring of elite Belgian paedophiles. For years, they shielded his own depravity because it aided their own. When the heat got to be too much, they threw him under the bus, knowing that nobody would believe him. Simply because his story was so ridiculously unbelievable.

He's been telling that same story for over 15 years now, and while most people believe that it's insane delusion at best, there are others who wonder if he might not just be telling the truth, and the elite are laughing their asses off at the fact that nobody believes the truth.

Now, it *could* also be that he's just fishing for a chance to (a) stay relevant to the media and (b) try getting out of jail. I like to believe that's the case. But... well, let's just say that Belgium isn't necessarily *that* far away from places where this sort of shit has gone on historically, so it's not necessarily impossible. And this is in the modern day.

And so, having wasted *far* more digital ink on the subject, my conclusion is simply this. I don't think that this particular alternate universe (which is what all our fanfics are, after all) is in keeping with the Rarity we know. But I *can* point at a couple of bits here and there throughout the series that make you go "hmm...." just a bit longer than you want to. Do I think it's in character? No, not really. But do I think it *could* be? With the right bits and pieces - bits and pieces that this story puts in place - it could be. The whole idea of Grimdark is, after all, to view the world of your particular fandom through a shattered mirror, and put together what you see from the puzzle pieces.

Compared to a number of other Grimdark stories I've read, this is a lot more believable/realistic than some of them.

855558

...

I think too much sometimes. :twilightoops:

855558

I think you have a point, and a very good and coherant one. But something struck me as I read and considered the implications, something at which your average Phoenix Wright would be finger-pointing.

There appears to be an inherant contradiction between the "alien activity" assumption and "well-oiled, far reaching, competent cabal of upper-class monsters. It would indicate the activity is hardly alien to the upper class which would, at best, make them slowly more incomprehenible to a truly innocent proletariat until eventually Madame Guillotine would be operating 24/7 in the streets of Canterlot, out of a simple sense of self-defense. As it stands it sounds like an invisible class war heavily slanted toward the wealthy because they can and have gamed the system for a quick advantage. And they also lack basic empathy, a necessity for a civilized and stable society that operates on the rule of law. The have become parasites, taking money from the lower classes via rent and commerce and then killing members of that class while using their natural empathy and capacity for cooperation to maintain the social institutions that let them be decadent idlers. It's like... Objectivism with the suffering of foals in more than just factories and mines.

Also I can return to a prior argument, because the sheer bigness of it would have to become apparant to even a non-omniscient being like Celestia. She's not stupid, and could probably out-Holmes Holmes, and Monk, Shawn Spencer and Walter Sherman, all with her own Poirotian little gray cells. Reports of vanishings, sorrowful commoners, a curious lack of movement in the police department or judicial system. Depending on the scope, scale and egregiousness, Celestia may have cause to dissolve royal charters and favors and unilaterally imprison or execute perpetrators. Given the kinds of laws and traditions in a land like Equestria, that sort of exploitative horror might constitute a crime high enough to be treason.

Oh, you're certainly right, and it's not likely to work out especially well in the long term (which, after reading Silver's Mark, I find even more likely to be the situation we have in this universe). Though, again, the whole "Molestia/Lunaughty universe" scenario short circuits the question of the Alicorns becoming involved; if they're in on the conspiracy, then who are they to object?

As for the commoners revolting... that becomes a matter of how *often* it happens. Ultimately, that *is* what happened in France, with the Libertines. Though, ironically, De Sade and several of the other poster-children of the Libertine movement actually went and became leaders in the new regime. That's got to be one of the most jaw-dropping parts; De Sade, who was probably the most outspoken proponent of that sort of society, achieved a high position as a judge, if I remember correctly. It was only after the revolution when the new king had him arrested and exiled somewhere he couldn't do any more damage. I mostly blame the fact that he was *in* the Bastille for his crimes and writings when the revolution happened.

At any rate, I certainly wouldn't think of it as a *likely* way that things can go, but I can find it a believable one. In my own pieces, the warped ones are somewhat less epidemic.

855558
855867

WOW. I never thought something I wrote would create so much discussion. This is kind of awesome. :pinkiesmile:

I think both of you make excellent points. Shrinky in particular seems to be inadvertently foreshadowing some stuff that's coming up in the next story. A trip to Canterlot is involved. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about the workings of the corrupt upper class, (because that's not what the story is about, and once I start writing about politics it tends to pull focus from everything else) but there will be a little stuff in there about Rarity's "friends" and how they've managed to evade justice so far. Hopefully it will be to your liking.

In any case, thanks for reading and commenting!

856455

Oh the best stories inspire discussion, even if you dislike it. Heck, dislike can spawn the greatest sort of conversation. Case in point, this story. Though I confess to you, openly, the desire to actually speak was twofold: First the warped Rarity portrayal has been bothering me for a long, long time, because it's like every author wants to pile on some random thing onto her in particular (gross racism, paedophilia, sadism, dominatrix inclination, murderous sociopathy) for no reason other than she is very elegant and knows how to move among the upper class. Second, as I said before, I am a curmugeonly and paternally protective sort when it comes to Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon. They are so often unfairly maligned as compared to other antagonists, including genuinely murderous or destructive ones like Nightmare Moon or Discord. They are fillies. Heck, the CMC get a pass even though they are thoughtless little gremlins that hurt others and destroy things. Like Bebe's Kids without the rapping and with more apologists. If I wasn't swamped in series that need resolutions I'd write more about them than a simple quick scene in a larger work. So when you combine OOCly-Evil Rarity with abused Silver Spoon it activates my Curmugeon Signal and sends me out to be needlessly intellectual.

I can't watch you because my computer does not seem to like the site coding for the watch button. But it sounds like Rarity's friends on the other side will make for an interesting encounter. But it also sounds like nopony is going to start the proletariat revolution, which means the underclasses will continue to be fodder for the upper. Tragic.

Well, this ones hard to review...
Well, I am assuming you wrote this to disturb people. You did wonders there. Whereas other infamous darkfics like Cupcakes or Sweet Apple Massacre go for shock value and obsessive gore, this story went for psychological torment. And unlike them, it's truly terrifying because of it.
The fact, as several people have noted, it's not all that unusual in real life is all the more depressing.
Honestly though, it was a bit too horrifying for me, hence the initial comment. It was a week after reading before I could look at Rarity without hate and fear showing up. Can't really fault you for that, so still get's a thumbs up. Just... felt like mentioning it.

what got me to read this was the description and the picture, i was tempted to move on. but...something told me to read it. i don't know why, it must have be the violins i was listening to, or my heart aching, demanding that i read it. so as the music played for the beginning until the end, just sad ans slow as rarity's story unfold, the rabbits last breath, the young foal who adored her. i now know that i'm glad i read this, keep up the good work chap.

Ah the cycle of abuse, by the time the abused is old enough to take action the have become as twisted as their predecessors.
But honestly, what is it about humans that our first impulse upon being confronted with something pure is to twist it into an abominable mockery of it's former self.

You've got a WONDERFUL grip on what you do! :pinkiegasp:

I found this strangly arousing? Thumbs up!:heart:

Sa magnIfique!
français est une belle langue:raritywink:

:heart:détail et l'émotion:heart:

au revoir ami auteur.

votre écriture est bonne
Je regarde

P.S.
Failed french class in school, taught it to myself later, how did i do?:pinkiesmile:
Didn't even use a translator thing!

1741871

Failed french class in school, taught it to myself later, how did i do?

I don't know. I don't speak French! :twilightblush: The translation was all Amit's doing, completely on his own initiative.He sent it to me unexpectedly one day. It was a lovely surprise, though I lament that I can't fully appreciate it because I don't speak the language.

I was able to discern almost all of your comments, though, based on my knowledge of other romance languages. I did have to turn to Google Translate to help me with the second to last sentence, though.

Um...merci! :yay:

>trying my best not to let the wooden floorboards creek too loudly as I went
"creek" should be "creak"

>Some carrion birds had most likely came by and disposed of it for me
I think that "came" should be "come", although I am not entirely sure :moustache:

Such a sweet, tearing and sadic story! :raritystarry:

1140099
Rule 58:
The more beautiful and pure a thing is - the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.

th02.deviantart.net/fs26/PRE/f/2008/080/5/d/Rules_of_The_internet_by_KDXF2007.jpg

Wow...that was...intense

I need to get over my problem of finding good stories to ruin my day.

I'm no expert on French, but I will say that after taking three years of it, I can tell that there are a few errors in the translation. Incorrect uses of verb tenses, i.e., using the passé composée where imparfait is needed. Forgive me Amit, but it seems you might have copy-pasted into google translate. Ah, well. Still sounds beautiful to read.

Oh wow. THIS is incredible. I will never ever look at Rarity the same. I pity her, and fear her at the same time. I just... wow.

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