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My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Fanfiction
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Not good enough. Even now it took too long. The situation was contrived enough with slavery and the idea of a council having more ruling power together than Celestia. But the idea that humans are completely sentient and were still enslaved anyhow despite being ALLIES of the ponies in the early years and got hunted and harassed and ENSLAVED over a minor incident of death of one pony is the zenith of mischaracterization and message bastardization. They turned on an entire nation because a human killed one pony? That's it? Really?! That makes no sense.
The worst part is that not a single ounce of this is played with any irony or satire. If this was meant to make fun of the common stereotypes that pop up n work like this, then I'd be willing to give it more of a pass. But you play it all completely straight. I can't forgive that.
Okay, Celestia, your little ponies are the ones that should be hated because it wasn't you that upheld and entire races institution of slavery and torture against the human race. The common and noble ponies are the ones to blame.
Update? Nice.
Good job
5916430
The idea of Celestia being a weak ruler and a Feudal Age human civilization being enslaved is unrealistic?
5916460 But she was the one who proposed the idea of enslaving the humans.
Of course, given the choice of exterminating them and enslaving them, it's hard to argue which is the least tyrannical route. Then again, I bet none of those ponies has ever read "How To Manage Your Slaves" when it came to them.
After Equestria betrayed and enslaved an entire allied nation, in retaliation for an isolated incident of murder, why would any other nation on the planet maintain diplomatic ties with them?
Despite what she said, her redemption is still a long way ahead, you cant undo countless years of slavery, abuse, and other unimaginable actions that took place.
5916627
Yeah, but if the princess and ponies really believed that their options were Enslave or Exterminate, then that should have been the point where they realized that maybe their society had deeper problems.
I look at this situation whenever I see Celestia in this story and I feel that I should hate the sin but not the sinner.
I mean, yeah I like the premise, even parts of the plot, but some of these original characters are too over-the-top and two-dimentional.
The one trying to court Twilight has no personality, just lust and greed, like you're supposed to only hate the character, and expect him to do something awful before he's killed to make the ending more bitter than sweet, kinda like Big Top from Misunderstandings. I absolutely knew that Big Top was going to seriously hurt one of the main characters, and regarding the unicorn harassing Twilight, I know I'm supposed to hate him; you're making me hate him, but I'm just tired of hating. I want to pity, or relate to, or even like the villains.
Same with the head of the high-council, and all the the things about the high-council. I like the idea of a jerk being used and murdered by the good guys. That's a really cool twist you never see, but a dangerous narcissist with no tertiary character quirks and no special motivations looks just like a hate target who's just gonna make a happy ending all bitter-sweet. I feel like there could be a better way for Celestia's little ponies to have enslaved humanity rather than with some sort of back-story and romance with a leader and ugly politics and being restrained by ones reputation. cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61700392.jpg
Really, what if there's no explanation? What if humans actually were inferior to ponies and have been enslaved since before Celestia and Luna ever ruled?
Really, I just wanna see more of the romance between Chains & Twilight, and their relationship with the rest of Ponyville.
Oooh man, I feel bad for Celly, I really do.
Damn that council douchebag from way back when who forced her to make that decision.
AGGGGGHHHH... I want to play Age of Empires now, damn.
Nice job on this chapter, nice nice nice nice nice nice.
5916803 True. Their society was real fucked up if that was it.
The only good thing that came out of it was that no genocide occurred.
As wrong as this sounds to say, the ONLY thing I find 100% wrong with Celestia isn't her enslavement of ponies, or whatever else; it's her inability to help in any meaningful way to the process.
Like, sending your sister to do what is really your job??? What??? Take responsibility and do ANYTHING. I wouldn't even care so much that she had sent Luna to do that if she would contribute anything else.
Also, not a big fan that she'd just willingly line up Suraci's death, even if he is a dick he's still someone she's all but sworn to protect by virtue of being the higher authority. I really hope there's just a miscommunication there, but chances are he's literally just going to be the zero requiem to the Human Liberation front.
5916629
The other nations didn't care that much. They were probably suspicious of the humans themselves.
5917260
A species not capable of magic nor more advanced than them, with no enhanced strength, no ability to fly or anything like that would be untrustworthy?
Nonsense.
Alright then, let's get this revolution started! Looking forward to more.
Keep up the good work. Deus tecum.
HLF as in from the conversion bureau
nice reference
Step one of the New Equestria is to force Celestia to abdicate. She'll probably go along willingly.
Holy shit! The authers not dead!
5917773
Never read it, nor have I had any desire to. Merely a coincidence.
5917799
I think step one is for her to eliminate the council and the hereditary nobility and establish absolute power. It's pretty clear her lack of assertion is what caused this mess in the first place.
wow are gonna hate me for what I say
but this celestia is very weak character
and delegates its responsibilities guilt and her sister
Phew think that's why on the throne is weak and easily manipilable
I'm still hoping Luna plants a dagger in Celestia's back by the end of this. Or at the very least exiles her off somewhere very far away from anything even resembling politics because she is catastrophically bad at it. Luna may have been absent for the last 1000 years, but she could hardly fuck it up any worse on her own.
5916629
Exactly. I'm not sure how Equestria avoided a conflict with every other civilized nation forming an alliance to deal with unstable psychopath ponies.
5917123
That's a real slim bright side as there was still a horribly bloody war that killed off most of the humans. They just enslaved the leftover prisoners instead of executing them. I'm not really sure it's that much better at all.
5917200
Absolutely this. The "I don't want to be mistaken for a liberator" excuse is astoundingly weak. No, you absolutely don't deserve that kind of credit, but that's not a reason to continue avoiding doing the right thing. It's essentially equivalent to saying "If I actually fixed something, then how would I keep wallowing in self-pity?"
YEAH!!, Lyra in the human team.
Celestia did have another choice. If she stopped sun for a few days and said that it will stay that way unless they stop hunting humans. It could have worked, as I guess it was more of the nobles pushing for extermination/slavery, no a common ponies.
Oh fucking god, it fucking hurts.
I've seen high school debate teams have more political aptitude.
I've said this a half a dozen times, Celestia is practically a fucking GOD. Ever hear the phrase, "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."? Be a fucking tyrant if you have to, if that means you're doing the god damn right thing. Let history know you as the Solar Tyrant who through bloodshed and war, DID THE RIGHT FUCKING THING. Hell, Geralt of Witcher put it the best fucking way I've yet to hear, in terms of what Celestia did when she bent at the knee to the council, "If I'm to choose between one evil and another, I'd rather not choose at all."
Its just fucking asinine. I have no other way of putting it. Look, I get the whole thing where Celestia was oh so weak, and has legitimate concerns about ponies becoming overly dependent on her, but that doesn't excuse the enslavement of an entire fucking species and allowing it for a thousand fucking years.
The entire set up is becoming more and more ridiculous. I could have believed, well and truly believed, pony kind sought to destroy the humans, IF there was an element of Discord's Chaos magic at play, as well as there being a division among the humans, where one faction had little regard for the life of the Ponies after a number of harsh set backs, kind of like Germany after WW1, they were desperate, hungry, children were starving, and after the council told them to shove it when they asked for help, they decided to take what they wanted out of anger and outrage, lest their children, wives and families die. And because the council's playing up the whole "Humans are creatures of chaos and Discord!" thing, ponies would be rightfully scared because Discord is still active, alive, and the memories of what he did, rightfully would be fresh on the minds of the ponies. But this all started after once incident.
If Celestia's hands were tied because all of pony kind felt as if this was a fucking crusade against the very real force that almost enslaved and destroyed their race, then hey, its somewhat believable, so long as WHY the humans have been slaves for so fucking long, is addressed as well, like because there is a deeply rooted "Scientific" belief that humans are tainted with chaos magic, so to be merciful, they keep them enslaved because A. They stupid as shit and don't know any better, and B. Its for both race's safety were Discord to break free. And by scientific, I meant a belief perpetuated even though it has no evidence, only sticking around because that was what the general consensus was for the past 900 years, kind of like when half the planet thought the earth was flat. And thus, after his so called crusade, Celestia's options were literally only to decree, NOT BEG, that the humans would be treated as SUBJECTS of Equestria, otherwise the humans would have been burned at the stake. But because of the Council's decisions in law, many laws were enacted that treated the humans AS SLAVES, and thus, over the generations, with countless, "Thats how its always been," generations of ponies accepting that, that's how humans are supposed to be treated, Celestia really had no room to maneuver, unable to impose her god's will as if she failed, she'd garner negative favor and would have proved that she would bend to the will of others.
Otherwise, I'm kind of sick of there being character's we're just supposed to hate. The creepy fuck hitting on Twilight, he just feels like he's there so Chains can tip his fedora, whisper, "muh lady" upon the winds, and slice him up with his nippon steel katana folded a million times. The obligatory rival/creep/sub villain that no doubt is working with the real bad guys and is EVIL! This Sriracha cockaracha dude, feels no different. He's powerful, young, arrogant, a dick, and resembles King Joffrey because that makes him easier to hate.
5920183
4172125
If nothing else, continuing to read this story has introduced me to more than one like-minded person. And now to cap it all off she's planning to assassinate the only real political obstacle she has, so that she can abolish slavery with her absolute authority.
Maybe this version of Celestia has some kind of mental handicap unique to immortals, where there's some kind of several century disconnect between realizing the correct course of action and taking it. Maybe when Discord showed up she immediately realized they needed to find the weird tree she saw previously, get those weird rocks from it, and use them to shoot Discord with a friendship laser. But because of her condition she sat there for 300 years feeling bad about how she hadn't acted on her plan yet.
5920183 gifbin.com/bin/1233928590_citizen%20kane%20clapping.gif
About time best pony showed up in this fic.
Personally, I feel sorry for Celestia. The whole thing was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of scenario. Any other choices she could have made would still had dire consequences (But, admittingly, she could have made a better choice.)
Dear god Celestia is being written as a worthless coward. So let me get this strait, she doesn't want to assert her power openly because she feels it would make her tyrannical to overwrite the desires of her government, but she is willing and already planning to commit murder of opposing politicians in order to get her way?
If she really wanted to abolish slavery she could do it with a snap of her fingers (metaphorically speaking). Instead she plays a pointless game of behind closed doors manipulation and murder all the while leaving the ones she claims to care about enslaved while she plays her games.
If you were trying to portray her as the most disgusting villain in Equestria since the Smooze I would say you did a wonderful job. Unfortunately I think you were trying more to make her deep and conflicted, in which case you failed at that miserably. There was hope for Luna, at least until you had her play along with Celestia's cruel and wasteful game.
I still care deeply about the protagonist and his relationships with the mane six, and the story overall is as good as ever, but the more you focus on your version of Celestia the harder this fic gets to read.
I said this once on the Protect Celestia group's thread of "worst fanfic portrayals of Celestia", and I just thought I would say it here too.
This is the only story on this site that I want to see Celestia die in.
The fact that she is so. Damn. INCOMPETENT. Goes against everything Celestia, as a character, stands for. Her personality is so wrong that I wonder if you truly hate her character; this isn't Celestia, this is the antithesis of Celestia.
Personally, I think this has some potential. If you could make the characters less idiotic, and change the reasons as to how and why the humans were enslaved, maybe make it so that a third of the populace isn't against slavery so that it will be a bit easier to see how the institution survived for so long,I would say this is a pretty nice look at a more darker Equestria.
But that Celestia chapter, that one chapter, destroyed any hope of me recommending this to anyone. I see that you're trying your damnedest to make us sympathize with her but no, I'll only stick around to see how this ends. Though a good part of me thinks the ending isn't going to be one I will enjoy.
I find it funny how many people are bashing this fic about how Celestia and the Counsel are portrayed, and yet not one seems to understand a thing about politics. They mislabel her as a goddess even though the show never once supports this (The only time she actually fought, she lost, even). They complain about Celestia planing on 'murdering' the head councilman, even though she simply said he was going to be killed (Guess what the punishment for treason is?). They call her a coward for not just overthrowing the counsel and taking over, even though doing so would alienate the rest of the world leading to the decimation of Equestria's economy (no one will trade with a tyrant). They say this is the worst portrayal of Celestia when in truth it's amongst the most realistic display of real-world politics on this site. News flash, people; black and white morality isn't real. Nor are easy solutions. Sometimes a leader is stuck with only two options; the bad one and the worse one.
5927260 I actually like this fic... I don't know why...
5927260
Maybe it was the author's intention of having a more realistic approach to Celestia; but even then, why would she immediately turn to slavery? I'm sure there was some other option here, given how it doesn't look like most of Equestria supports slavery.
I would also like to point out that you say that if she seized power and dissolved the counsel the other countries would call her a tyrant and cut off diplomatic relations? Given how Equestria blatantly back stabbed and allied nation and enslaved them; I highly doubt that most countries won't see that as a sign that Equestria can't be trusted.
5928271
Her other option was to kill them all. Celestia's only mistake was giving the Counsel too much power. It was their decision to wipe them out. Celestia only offered a compromise that would save the humans' lives. Also, politically, she didn't betray the humans, the humans betrayed Equestria when thy killed that pony. That's just how politics works.
The problem is that people think Celestia should be infallible (or at last very nearly so), but that's just ridiculous. She's made mistakes in the show plenty of times (multiple during the royal wedding alone). Besides, it would be boring if she was perfect.
5928289
That's a pretty flimsy excuse, it is said in that chapter in which Celestia reveals it's all her fault that the humans punished the murders and she personally said the the prince that she wouldn't let this become war.
From the chapter:
I still think that Celestia could've thought of a better way to either convince the counsel that their wrong, or at least warn the humans so that they'll be ready; remember this didn't happen in a day, a month past between the counsel approving slavery and Celestia trying to capture the prince.
From the chapter:
Despite all of this, I have to say I agree with you that Celestia isn't some goddess of infinite power like some people think; it is entirely within reason that she can and probably has made some big mistakes in her life. That being said, I can't see her messing up so badly like she does in this story.
5928326 Imagine, if you will, a real-world nation revolted against its tyrannical government and overthrew them. The regime that replaces them would be watched with scrutiny and a level of mistrust simply because they are a new and unknown political power. Now imagine this new and unknown political power were Martians. This is what the humans were, an unknown political power, and an unknown race. That murder showed the rest of the world that this new race was comprised of killers and couldn't be trusted. It's stupid, I know, but that's how politics work.
This would be the worst thing Celestia could possibly do. First, it would label her a traitor and give the counsel an excuse to strip her of all her power, eliminating any possibility of helping the humans later on. Worse than that, however, it would cost far more lives. Humans only had one, single city and were grossly outnumbered. That combined with Equestria's powerful magic means the humans would still be wiped out, only now countless ponies would be killed as well.
5928422
I'm not really gonna argue your first point, because politics are really annoying and an argument about them more so. I will say It's sort of vague when it comes to using real life politics to describe fantasy worlds; so I'm willing give the author the benefit of the doubt and say it's hard to write realistic portrayals of politics for fantasy.
Your second point, however, assumes Celestia either gets caught, or is stupid enough to publicly announce it. Which if Celestia is as good at intrigue and plotting as it's implied in both canon and here, she would be a bit more careful. Surely despite being reduced to a symbolic figurehead she still has some loyalists.
I was also talking about the humans fleeing, not fighting. Surely they would also see the reasons you listed and know that it's better to run and live in seclusion somewhere rather than fight and get killed and enslaved.
5920183
Minor correction: Slavery has been around for 300 years, not a thousand. Thus Luna's WTF?! reaction when she returns. Not that this makes it in any way better, especially since they already had Sombra around as the go to example of slavery being not such a good thing.
5920381
Of course! Celestia is just an ent! On her timescale she's taking decisive action on this sudden development!
5927260
She doesn't have to be a literal goddess, as long as the populace sees her as one, which they certainly do. She's the absolute monarch who enjoys fanatical, near 100% approval. Even if she delegated most of her responsibilities to the point that she's mostly a figurehead as far as day to day governing, she IS the state in the eye of the common citizenry. She also controls the freaking sun. She holds every card and acts like she's powerless.
As for "no one will trade with a tyrant", first of all, demonstrably not true. Second, not much has been said about the political structure of the gryphons or minotaurs, whether they have emperors, kings, loose clan structures, democracies or what, but I find it unlikely that they would be too ruffled by Equestria returning to a monarchy from a corrupt oligarchy headed by a hereditary position that was a defacto king anyway. It's not like it's an elected government being overthrown. What SHOULD deeply concern everyone though, is Equestria launching an unprovoked campaign of enslavement and extermination (the human nation is gone and their culture completely obliterated) against their close allies while simultaneously violating every rule regarding hospitality, declaration of war, and treatment of foreign diplomats (she attacked a foreign prince on a mission of peace while a GUEST IN HER HOUSE!). That's the kinda shit that not only cuts all trade relations, but would likely get any nearby countries to declare war on you.
5928422
Except, in that single incident where a few humans killed and ate a pony, they were tried, found guilty of murder, and executed by their own people as criminals. It certainly doesn't show that the whole race is made up of killers (and it's not mentioned anywhere what the rest of the world outside of Equestria thinks). If a single murder committed by citizens of foreign power (who were promptly EXECUTED by their authorities!) is justification enough for extermination/enslavement of the entire species, I don't know how they've managed to get along with gryphons considering the staple of their diet in greek mythology was LITERALLY PONIES!
5928482 Where would they run? How would they run? To move an entire city is a slow, grueling process. The Equestrian army would catch them easily and the results would be the same. The humans would know this and chose to fight. As for Celestia being implicated, it would be easy. Celestia is known as 'humanfriend', and she was vocal in her opposition to the operation. That is enough to launch an investigation that would very likely make the connection. It would be simple, especially if they waited until after the fighting when so many ponies are grieving over dead loved ones. She would be crucified.
5928858 North Korea, Iraq (under Saddam's rule), and Cuba (Castro's) all show that, yes, tyrannical acts alienate the world. What type of government they have doesn't matter.
5928910 Griffins aren't a new species, and there is nothing that says they did eat ponies in this world. The fact that nothing is known about humans means that every action is weighed far more than it would be with a familiar one. Think about how changelings are painted as evil soul-stealers, even though they've only committed one act against Equestria. It's because all they know is that one act. Likewise, all many would know about humans is they're technologically advanced, have powerful weapons, and now they eat ponies. That is enough to justify their actions to the world. I'd even say the world would have advised them to wipe them out.
5929419
Okay, now I think you're just grasping at straws.
There are many places humans could hide, Everfree, for example is pretty big, and there are probably places like it dotted around Equestria. If Celestia is able to get warning out, then it gives the humans some sort of chance at surviving. Maybe some can stay and distract the Equestrian army. Maybe Celestia could delay the counsel to buy the humans some time. It doesn't matter if it succeeds or not, just something other than, well instead of killing all of them let's just enslave them and destroy their cultural identity! That's the easier and better decision to do! It would make Celestia more easier to sympathize with because she at least tried to do SOMETHING.
Even if Celestia is investigated (Which I'd think the counsel would have to be REALLY paranoid to do) Then what? Do they kill her? I'm pretty sure it won't result in that; because as history has shown, killing your monarch kinda alienates you. Maybe she becomes more powerless politics wise, but then that justifies why she made this elaborate plan if that is the case.
I would also like to bring up that even if the other nation have their suspicions of humans; they saw a race get attack and enslaved for committing a crime that was quickly punished. You'd think they'd go 'hm Equestria has launched an unprovoked attack on another nation and has instated a practiced used by a well known tyrant on a pretty flimsy casus belli'. Even if you were suspicion of humans and didn't know if they could be trusted, Equestria for lack of a better word pulled a Remember the Maine. What would be the realistic reaction to this?
5929419
While certainly none of those examples are very popular with the US and its allies, there's hardly a united world worldwide opposition. China trades with North Korea, Castro had the soviets and allies, and Iraq had middle eastern allies too. And you'd have to be incredibly naive to think the existing opposition has anything to do with how "tyrannical" their government structure is (not even human rights violations, but just what type of government they have). It's mostly about who poses a threat to economic and political interests in the region and who has nukes (and in North Korea's case, being batshit insane). Barring massive human rights violations (like say, slavery) countries stay out of each others internal affairs unless it affects them directly (like the french revolution making all the other European monarchies nervous that it might give their peasants ideas). A monarch dissolving a corrupt council of nobles isn't that big a deal, and certainly isn't going to threaten waves of populist revolt in any neighboring countries. Even if the rest of Equus were somehow extremely egalitarian and anti-monarchy (divine right is out of favor these days but we don't invade anywhere that doesn't hold democratic elections), it's not like that council was elected by anybody. It was a hereditary oligarchy. Nopony is made any less free by putting Celestia back in charge.
Humans had bronze age technology, so they weren't THAT far beyond anyone else. Changelings have SOME history, as Cadence was able to identify them to everyone else. And the "single act" the changelings are now known for wasn't a crime committed by a few individuals (who were punished) acting on their own, it was an attempted military invasion!
5929579 You couldn't hide an entire city worth of humans from a race with powerful magic and fast fliers. Even if you could, that's still slavery, just to their own fear. They would still lose their cultural identity, only now humans are just another monster in the Everfree without any ponies fighting for them. It would be worse than slavery to the ponies.
As for the other countries, they wouldn't care that the human's punished them. The fact that they murdered and ate someone's friend, child, spouse, and sibling, would outweigh how it was handled. What they should have done was hand them over to Equestria to let them decide their punishment. That would have shown the world that they don't even consider them one of their own anymore, and wish to distance themselves from them.
I'm not saying it was the best decision. I'm just saying it was the best decision she was presented with. She might have been able to figure something out if she had time and was in a better state of mind, but given the circumstances she handled it as well as one could have reasonably expected.
5930742 While there are a few that trade with them, their economies still went down the toilet. North Korea, especially, used to have a decent economy. Now, they're a step away from being a third world country.
That being said, how do you think the rest of the world would respond when Celestia siezes control over this? First off, I would put this at the political equivalent of the 15-1700s (considering the current time period is around the industrial era). It's not a matter of morals, but in protecting their own power. They would distance themselves from her before she decides to seize their nations as well.
As for enslaving the humans, The rest of the world would care about as much as ours did when African slaves were first acquired. Again, they don't care about morals so much as their own power.
5930983
You seem to have it completely backwards. A restructuring of the internal politics of Equestria doesn't in any way suggest that she might suddenly start invading neighboring countries. I can hardly think of a LESS alarming political shift. It's not like Celestia is some unknown upstart who came out of nowhere and who nobody can predict. She's been around for centuries. She would have been interacting with their great great grandparents. They'd know her temperament and her positions on important issues. Foreign relations with Equestria would simplify dramatically, as they'd just be negotiating with her directly instead of running through a corrupt bunch of backbiting nobles. What absolutely WOULD be a worrying sign that Equestria might try to seize their nations is something like launching a completely unprovoked and unannounced campaign of extermination/subjugation against their standing allies. THAT is the kind of shit that should make them concerned for their own safety. That would make Equestria the North Korea of the setting. Dangerously psychotic and unstable (with thermonuclear power ).
It hasn't been explained what the other nations think of slavery, but the ponies at least remembered Sombra as not such a nice fellow. Maybe that was the moral high mark of the setting everyone else is just gung ho for slavery of other species. But African slavery isn't the best analogy. Those who practiced such were easily able to dismiss the Africans as primitive savages without any real civilization. As subhumans naturally designed for servitude. They could convince themselves that they were somehow doing them a favor by civilizing and christianizing them and leading them to their natural roles. In pony world, rationalizations from "they look really different" would be a bit harder to make considering they maintain diplomatic relations with drastically different species. Hell, the minotaurs would relate to them far more than ponies or gryphons. Kinda hard to paint them as savages too when they have recognition and formal diplomatic relations with Equestria and Celestia is buddy buddy with the prince. So maybe the rest of the world is just like ancient Rome where slavery is just what everyone does, but that would still make backstabbing and enslaving your allies pretty heinous, and would fit very well with all of Celestia's agonizing and the council's shocked reaction to her suggestion. It sure doesn't sound like slavery was widely accepted at the time.
5931163
And damnit, I meant to make those short responses, but this story and comments section makes me type huge walls of text.