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ITS NO LONGER DEAD!!!!!!
Woah, poor Celestia, knowing she was the reason the one she loved killed himself.......that's gotta sting something fierce.
I loved the way you added that Celestia was in love with the human Prince, it's a really nice twist to the story.
FINALLY
Be me
Be at work
Get bored and log on fimfiction
See new chapter of Chains, weigh risk of getting caught slacking to read new chapter
Decide it is worth
Get caught by boss
Boss yells until he sees what was being read
Discover your boss is a brony who has also been waiting on new chapter of Chains
Slack off with boss as we read new chapter together
TRUE STORY
Also, HOORAY NEW CHAPTER!!!
khwiki.com/images/0/04/Break_Time_(Ventus)_KHBBS.gif
4823012
That's an interesting set of coincidences. I'm glad I didn't get you in trouble I hope you and your boss both enjoyed the chapter.
So a bunch of commoners did a hell of lot more than you ever did, despite having not even a miniscule fraction of your power as monarch/sun goddess, because they actually bothered to TRY instead of sitting around crying to themselves.
They'd be free a whole lot sooner if you were to actually provide some help. Since you're so about it all being your fault (which it totally is) maybe you should be a bit more involved than just letting the pegasi abolitionists sort it out. And screw this "gentle transition" crap. Slavery is the kind of thing you HAVE to rip up by the roots. The thorn metaphor works if you just consider the impacts on the slave holding society, and completely ignore the incomprehensible level of suffering endured by the actual slaves. Then it's more like you've been hemorrhaging blood constantly for the past 300 years.
Okay, now I'm somewhat interested, because it looks like that's EXACTLY what you've been doing so far.
Okay...that's an...interesting strategy. That certainly seems to be step in the right direction. But might I remind you that YOU ARE ROYALTY! Why the hell do you need to be secretive about your stance on the issue? Why not, you know, make a statement of support for the abolitionists or something? Let your super high popularity levels sway public opinion. If you're going to start messing around with rebel armies, why not use the army you actually have? Seriously, keep this up and once the revolution comes, your head is on the chopping block because you kept the fact that you're actually trying to help and have some shred of conscience such a colossal secret.
Well damn, 'bout time this updated. And an excellent chapter to kick the hiatus to the curb. Can't wait to hear what comes next. Though I gotta say, you could really do well with this kind of story. Please tell me you have some sort of plan for it.
I would put a gif of 'dis gonna be good' but i'm lazy so i'll just say it.
Dis gonna be good!
"Oh gee, I feel really bad about permitting the thing that completely makes my society hypocritical, violates everything we stand for and enslaving a sentient race that my kind were partnered with, but hey, what am I supposed to do? I'm only the RULER OF THE ENTIRE NATION, THE MOVER OF THE SUN AND AN IMMENSELY POWERFUL SORCERESS!"
YES! context, explanation, revelation, CELESTIA ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT! I DON'T HATE HER ANYMORE! Looks like a happy ending is on it's way!
I see an update for this chapter and all I hear from its proverbial mouth is
Was this an attempt to make Celestia not seem like an incompetent heartless bitch? Because it's not working. After all of this I've actually come to hate her more. At first I figured Celestia was just a sociopath who cared nothing for the lives of others (or humans at least), terrible but you can't expect better from a sociopath. However we now see that Celestia knows exactly the suffering she's caused and she seems to feel no great urgency to fix it she's literally been waiting around for centuries for it to fix itself allowing countless many to live out their lives in bondage. You just have to hate her more for that. I really really hope this Celestia pays dearly for what she's done, the thought of such a monster getting off scot free is too much to stomach
4823434
Here's my response, if you were the one enslaved, would you care about that, frankly, worthless excuse?
You're ignoring that Celestia has her own army (and the Pegasi would easily replace any personnel that left due to her decision) and that the humans would be willing to fight against their oppressors. Let's also not forget that she's the one that controls the sun. Unicorns raising the sun is a lost art ever since Celestia took over the job. Killing her would only be followed by everyone following her into death due to starvation and the cold.
Celestia's reason makes sense for her, what with her being the villain and all. However, I am upset that Luna seemed to buy into it. It was a cowardly and hollow reason for doing something unforgivable, then she seemed to take joy in how clever she was being for playing the long game while subjugating a whole race. Frankly the possibility that I should feel sorry for her past or god forbid pleased with Celestia's actions today makes me sick.
4823702
Actually, that couldn't happen. An operation like that would take a lot of prep work and organization. That doesn't happen in a few hours. If it did, the loyalist forces would easily slaughter the slavery forces since the slavers are more likely to kill themselves (blue-on-blue situations) rather than actually attack the loyalists.
Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Try again, jackass.
Actually, only those who lack training and (most critically) common sense would be. I've seen what people can do in life or death situations. My own military service shows just what a little training can do. You are grossly underestimating their chances.
Which means absolutely nothing and provides no assistance to your argument.
Before or after thousands are dead from the freezing cold or starvation?
Which, if the negotiator on the emancipation side is actually competent, would never happen.
Which would result in the ponies in neck-deep in a situation that they are not used to (therefore more likely to die) and the humans living another day but they would be free and more likely to help those who helped them during their enslavement.
Oh my! Slaves are enslaved! How shocking! This is one of those comments that wasn't really thought out.
Which only supports my argument, since they would be willing to do whatever it takes, including killing the slavers. The most dangerous person in the world is one with nothing to lose and everything to gain. That would make each slave worth five or six guard, once they are trained. A warrior who knows what he fights for and that it is just will never be defeated by one who only fights for another's wealth.
It's not that they don't see it, it's that they don't care. Nor should they. Anyone that even thinks for a moment shouldn't give a damn about a slaver's position after his slaves are freed. The only one that should care are the slaves that are freed and the slaver him-/herself. If the slaver actually treated the slaves with respect and took care of them (as in, treated them friends and family, even if they had to possess them like property) then, in the unlikely chance of that event happening, there is a chance that they would stay and keep doing the job they were. If they were like any other slaver, then they are on their own.
There is no justification for slavery. Especially when you have machines that can do the work better. Get tech'd, bitch.
4823524
totally agree
celestia is weak and cowardly in this story, she could cut all this from the beginning, but had no guts
she could denounce the people of noble actions, most of the people idolizes celestia but dared for fear of losing his throne
she could kill in the noble act that supported the idea, who is going to question it after that, especially if she keeps the world alive
and moon are accepting their devious plan, where generations will live subjugated because he is afraid to do what needs to be done
I sincerely hope one karmic punishment
something like this
Tirek is released and uses humans as allies, if he can remove the magic can also give it to others
reecarnacion chains is the prince but now he loves Twilight
repudiates Twilight to learn the truth
there is another human nation and they are preparing to hit Equestria
not BookyBrony confused I love this story, but the attitude of celestia and cowardice bothered me a little, but at the same time seems quite realistic, it is individual who can make mistakes and missing his lack of character this grew out of proportions
I'm not entirely sure why people on the site seem to HATE Celestia, it's almost ridiculous, and it's even starting to leak onto stories where Celestia isn't necessarily a villain. Like here for example, she enslaved a race, which is of course bad, but you know what she isn't working to do? Keep the corrupt system instated.
She realized, what, a year or two after she did it that shit was bad? If even that long? She's regretted the idea ever since she made it, like MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE WHO MAKE MISTAKES DO! She might not be doing much to get rid of the system, but what would you rather do? Have a giant uprising and end up killing thousand upon thousand of people in a bloody civil war? Or take it slow and NOT add countless other deaths to your conscious? If the first, Vive la fucking France!
Not to mention what would happen if she did get rid of it just like that; since her power comes from an unspoken social contract, she NEEDS people to be on her side in order to stay in power. You know what would happen if she got rid of slavery right away? A GIANT portion of the working class would have to work more to make up for the sudden lack of productivity, and the business owners would lose way too much profit for their liking. Not to mention the nobles who'd be severely pissed that their trophies were taken away. Basically she'd have no one but the humans on her side; weak, malnourished, untrained humans.
So what's stopping her from getting rid of slavery? I dunno, maybe the fact that politics is complicated shit and Celestia is ONLY A SINGLE MARE??
Sorry, people who hate Celestia just to hate her annoy me to no end.
Lol, people are actually putting thought into a fanfiction about colorful horsies enslaving the human race.
Don't understand all the Celestia hate. Did she royally mess up? Yes. Could she and should she have fixed it a long time ago? Yes.
However, Celestia gave most of her political power away, so at first the government had the power to refuse her attempts to emancipate the humans. By the time she got her power back, the slavery was common place enough that a sudden removal of it could've had a massive, negative impact on Equestria's economy. Besides, the ponies clearly don't see the human on an equal level, so they'd likely just find other, legal ways to keep the humans down, like the South did with tenant farms after the Civil War.
While I don't think Celestia was in the right, I don't like how everyone vilifies her for one major mistake while at the same time gives Luna a free pass for the whole possibly-kill-everything-with-eternal-night attempt.
4823963
Except for the whole, you know, thing where she condemned humanity to a fate worse than death, after she listened to a little too much My Chemical Romance after her sister got a little too bitchy from PMSing, and having to live in her sister's shadow
If it takes you more than an a day to realize, "hey, enslaving beings to live by your whim, and fear your whip is a pretty bad thing", then you're an idiot of cosmic proportions. Not realizing that slavery is bad isn't a mistake, it's sheer stupidity. And why not? Change is never pleasant, and how many humans are going to have to die before they stop being slaves? What if it takes another hundred years, and during those hundred years, one million humans wrongfully die, as opposed to one hundred thousand ponies AND humans who would have died in a revolution, if it turned bloody.
Yes, it's not like she fucking rules the fucking planet because there is literally no other being that is currently alive, that can match her power, in this period of time. And it's not like there's going to be anybody who's going to fucking challenge the fucking person who literally raises and lowers the sun and moon, and is literally thousands of years old. And actually, it wouldn't change anything, and would have the potential to jump start the economy within a few generations. Humans would still need to work, so they go back to what they were doing before, except now they must be paid. The humans who are now making their own money, spend their money on food, cloths, and other products, boosting the economy. As the economy gets better, humans start going to schools, and get educations, drastically raising the educated work force, possibly causing a scientific and cultural renaissance. And if the nobles don't like it, too bad, let them tell the masses that they can eat cake for all I care, because when the people revolt, it's going to be their heads under the guillotine. If the Nobles can't change with the times, they will find themselves consumed by those who could. And you're forgetting the Pegasus ponies, the working class who can't afford slaves, other ponies that would follow Celestia because fuck you, she's Celestia, the citizens who don't like the idea of sapient beings being enslaved, and many other social and political groups.
A single mare that essentially controls the world, from a pedistal she's sat upon for thousands of years, one she's used to take down literal personifications of evil and chaos. She aint a little girl who can't handle herself, she fucked up big time.
4823339
At the time that I wrote it I didn't know of their fan accepted names, so I made up my own. I'm not going to bother changing it now.
I hope that there's no peaceful solution to the slavery problem. I demand pony blood!
4823012 Wait wait wait wait... WAIT! You mean to tell me, that you really did get out of trouble, because your boss was a brony?! That is (In the pony vocabulary) bucking hilarious! (On a side not, most people find it weird I pronounce it as Highlarious instead of hillarious, do you find that weird?
4823524 See, I have to disagree. She wants this done slowly (Like pulling off a bandage) because how much back lash there would be. Not to mention the economy, the economy may not be able survive with such a sudden change as her banning it right there and then. Then there are going to be the protesters! Oh how they will be knocking on the castle gate... Knocking it down.
4824315 Ok I suppose It's just that things that go against canon grind my brain.
4823434
4823702
There's are two main problems with your pro-slavery revolution scenario.
First, the ones who profit the most from slavery are the nobility and rich plantation owners, and they'll fight bitterly to preserve it. But from what the conversation with Applejack implied, slaves are expensive, and the common ponies who can't afford them don't get much benefit out of it. I doubt the common masses of unicorns and earth ponies (pegasi are already almost totally abolitionist) are going to be eager to fight and die for purses of the rich assholes. Not unless they're really attached to the idea of having a whole species of inferior beings to spit on. The nobles would be able to throw some gold around to raise some private mercenary armies, and maybe even pump out some propaganda to get some of the more gullible public on their side, but that runs into the second problem.
Second, you're moving against CELESTIA! I don't care what formal political powers she signed away centuries ago in a fit of idiocy, she's revered and borderline worshiped by the vast majority of ponies. Your cause is going to have a hard time finding support outside of a few scattered Nightmare Moon cult remnants. Those nobles are going to have to throw down obscene amounts of gold to get even the most amoral mercenary to move against the universally beloved, immortal sun goddess and her legions of supporters.
It's even more ridiculous to consider any significant portion of the guard force forsaking their oath and betraying their brothers to preserve slavery on behalf of the nobles. I don't know how she could possibly fuck up so badly that the majority of her own guard have no loyalty to her, and would betray her at the drop of a hat to side with corrupt nobles. Though she does have a habit of finding new and innovative ways to be incompetent.
4824136
Since you're so fucking dense that you can't see how fucking stupid your argument is (especially regarding military organization and the numbers on both sides), I'm going to spell it out and hopefully keep it simple enough so that a boot like yourself can understand:
Celestia unilaterally abolishes slavery and states that the Guard will no longer enforce any laws regarding slavery and that the Guard will treat all humans like any pony (therefore are afforded the same protections from things like assault, theft, etc).
(and here is where it completely differs from what you're saying) The Guard, being a disciplined force, carries this out. The Guards that don't like this either carry out the orders, abandon their posts or are court martialed for disobeying the order from a superior. The number of Guards this effects is less than 1/3 of the entire force.
The slave owners now either are forced to give up their slavers, or rebel. There is no time for them to build up an army or organize. Those that resist are arrested and charged with serious crimes.
Those that survive the first raids now go to ground, meeting up with each other, slowly building up an army of disgruntled slavers and Guard. The build up would be extremely slow and would never reach the same numbers as the Guard under Celestia's command.
Recruitment for the Guard amongst humans would easily replace the numbers of any Guardponies that abandoned their post or relieved of duty.
If the rebels ever get the nerve to attack, they would be severely outnumbered. This means that they would never be able to operate in a conventional sense. Either A.) they'd give up and just try and get the laws changed, or B.) they'd engage in terrorist attacks.
Except for the fact that Chrys was feeding off of Armor the entire time and therefore had a massive increase in her powers. Forgot that little detail, didn't you?
Except for if she decides to use the MAD theory and refuse to raise the sun unless they free the humans.
Wrong. Humans now would be given wages and would receive an incentive from the Equestrian government to continue to perform those duties (of which the incentive would only be temporary).
And this is not, in fact, a bad thing. This means that there are now demands that need to be met and any entrepreneurial pony would easily make a lot of money by filling that gap.
Not completely true. It would be a minor economic problem as the labor pool now expanded by a lot. Anyone who studies even basic economics would know this.
Only that the laws would be shot down by Celestia. After that, who gives a fuck about what they think? Freedom of speech allows them to be as racist as they want. The moment they act on it, however, it's no longer speech.
Except that, if Celestia is even half as smart as she thinks she is, she'd help the humans stand on their own, and then cut off assistance, keeping the amount of debt incurred by this low and the programs put themselves out of business (as they should).
Now, if you're done being ignorant and arrogant, learn about military structure and organization for their tech-level. It takes weeks to go to war.
You can't declare war and fight one right away given their tech-level. Notifications have to be sent out, the activated guards have to travel from their homes to the nearest base to be equipped and readied, they have to receive the orders on where they are going to deploy, and then they have to travel to their deployment zones. Where we can get that done in a few days (hours for the Marines, Rangers, SEALs, USSF, etc) with our tech-level, it would take weeks for them. They can't just type up an email and send it to everyone. Each letter would have to be written by hand, and the given to a carrier to be physically delivered. The rebels would be stuck with what they have on hand, which wouldn't be much compared to the Guard.
Even if some of the Guards desert, there wouldn't be enough of them to actually make a difference, and the punishment for those kinds of acts are severe (it carries the death sentence in the US). For most, it wouldn't be worth it. Realistically, 5% max would desert. That is not enough to turn the tide of Celestia crushing the rebellion.
This also disregards the idea that, since Celestia has lead them for so long, most ponies would just listen and follow her lead. That diminishes the rebels numbers even further.
Congrats, your argument has been thoroughly dismantled by a realistic portrayal of events using a basic understanding of economics, military structure and organization, and most importantly logic. Peace!
cdn.gifbay.com/2013/05/colbert_mic_drop-52522.gif
EDIT: Corrected some grammar as tablets do not seem to like it very much.
4824188
A few key distinctions:
1. Not that Luna gets a free pass, but it's pretty widely accepted she wasn't exactly in her right state of mind. She did kind of go a bit crazy there. Not that it absolves her of all responsibility, but it makes her slightly more sympathetic when she regrets it later. Celestia didn't lash out in a moment of high emotions, she oversaw the long term, organized enslavement of an entire sapient species. Crime of passion vs. Premeditation. The difference between 2nd and 1st degree murder.
2. Though Luna attempted to do so, she did NOT in fact cover the world in eternal night and kill everyone. It's kind of hazy whether that actually would have happened if she succeeded. Maybe after a month of night, she cools down a bit and realizes some of the logistical problems in what seemed like such a great idea the time. Or maybe she does just stay crazy mode until everyone freezes and starves, who knows?
3. Luna's coup attempt (that may or may not have killed everyone if successful) was a thousand years ago. Nobody got hurt, she's sorry about it, and she spent 1000 years in solitary confinement. In contrast, Celestia enslaving an entire species (after a bloody war, declared without warning on a country they were allies with, killing hundreds to thousands) wasn't just an isolated incident. IT'S STILL ONGOING! She has been supporting this system for 300 years and continues to do so to this day! She hasn't faced any sort of consequences for this other than some bad dreams and guilty feelings. That's great that she feels bad about it (She really really should) , but her hoof wringing doesn't garner much sympathy if it apparently isn't enough to get her to stop supporting the system. It's like saying "I wish I hadn't stabbed all those people" while continuing to stab them.
4825162 The U.S. military on the eve of Civil War separated amicably, that they knew they might face each other across a battle field was accepted as the price of doing business.
The British Empire went from the greatest trafficker of slaves, to using the full might of the British Navy to choke off the international slave trade in a period of 20 years. Queen Victoria used her power and influence to change the thinking of the government and the people.
So historically, your version of events is exactly what happened on Earth.
4825118
4825324
Would also like to take this time to remind everyone that the ponies were NOT onboard with the idea of slavery when this started. Even the corrupt as hell council balked at the suggestion. Equestria only adopted slavery because Celestia threw her whole support behind it and CONVINCED them that slavery was good. Ponies reflexively KNEW it was wrong, but Celestia has so much influence, is so respected and revered by the population that she was able to override their natural sense of morality and empathy. "If our benevolent god-empress says it's good who am I to disagree?" This is why all the arguments of poor powerless Celestia being unable to do anything about the whole slavery thing because nobles, and politics, and rebellion, is complete bullshit.
4825781 Will both of you please shut the hell up? Your argument is almost as long as this chapter.
4823098
While I can't say anything to support Celestia's action in ending up in this situation in the first place, the way things stand now she is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
She willingly crippled her own political power because.....I don't even know. But she did. Politically, she can't do anything, because she really doesn't have the power anymore. True, she's the monarch who moves the sun and now that Luna is back they could just tell the council to buck off and do what they want, but there's a problem with that: then they'd be tyrants. Regardless of their reasons or what the outcome is, they would be tyrants at that point and the nobles and powerful business ponies that rely on slavery for their money and power would use that against them. Even ponies who don't support slavery could be turned against them if the nobles get anyone who's even moderately charismatic to do speeches and PR campaigns for them.
And Celestia and Luna won't fight their own ponies. If the masses turned against them, they wouldn't fight back. They wouldn't be killed or anything, but tehy wouldn't hurt their own subjects just to keep their positions. It would cost them more in the long run than they would gain. As it stands, the change has to come from the ponies, not the government. The masses have to force the council to change, not the monarchs forcing the masses to change. Supporting rebel groups that oppose the current status quo is possibly the only intelligent thing Celestia has done in this entire story.
4825324
See, you understand the problem here.
4823319
"I mean, should I feel bad for this child that's been dragged away from his parents, beaten because he cried, and then branded with a burning iron? Or should I worry that the ones who did that to him might face unemployment if I actually do something about their completely unnecessary cruelty? I know what I'll do, I'll let them keep their jobs of being psychopaths but I'll mope about how my boyfriend committed suicide later. That'll help that kid feel better about losing his family and being treated like property."
4823434
If Castro can just up and declare that all businesses are now the property of the government, right next to America, during the Cold War, Sunbutt can declare slavery is over. Unlike Castro, she can incinerate people with her mind.
4825162
I'm starting to like you.
Remind me again why this isn't listed as YHaY?
4823012 then who in this site is your boss?
4826541
Because it doesn't take place in the same universe.
4823434 Ja but she moves the Fucking Sun for gods sake she can just burn 'em
4826584
Agreed, the character never speaks like that at any other time and it's still confusing, but I left it unchanged in case the author was actually trying to say that, since punctuation is the most confusing part of changing speech into text.
I didn't really feel comfortable telling them what they did wrong when they could be considered correct under other circumstances.
(again, I recommend rewording. As a matter of fact, just cut that sentence up into three separate sentences.)
4825397 Then I'll also remind you that the council was pushing to kill all the humans instead. Celestia only went with slavery because she felt that it was a better option than total genocide. Even if Celestia had said no to both options, the council would've just used their political power and influence to go above her and command the army to kill them all in the name of national protection.
4826616
Would it interest you to know that I do tend to revise the earlier chapters at some point?
.So much Celestia Hate. I have no words, Why do you never see people talk about the actual villains in the show like this, it's almost scary how many people worship Luna to the point that in every fic that I read Celestia is made out to be some kind of evil Tyrant. Come one people, quit arguing and enjoy the chapter. If you hate Celestia with every waking fiber if your being... fine I guess, If you just see her as a villain in this, okay, If you believe and understand the predicament she's put her self in and think second chances are good, well I'm with you, the only person who can tell us who's right is the author.
4826811
Hmm, perhaps who the true villain is can be open to interpretation in the end?
4826642
Simic is really more magic and genetic engineering, no machines involved. The only real fusion of magic and technology in Magic seems to be Phyrexia, which kind of ruined it for everyone else. Esper and other artifact creatures could count, but they seem to mostly be magically infused with metal that doesn't have any machinery to it, whereas Phyrexians have gears and so on that might have some function even if you removed all their magic somehow.
Simic does have that Fish Crab though. So that's pretty cool.
4824704
Pulling bandages off slowly is the stupid way to do it. The best is actually to soak the hell out of it, if you're curious. Weakens the adhesive. Also, keep in mind that if she had pulled the bandage off quickly a couple hundred years ago, everything would be mostly fine by now so your metaphor doesn't work.
4826803
Well, I am definitely interested in things which reveal the method that manufactures the delicate event-chains which result in the follies of those around me so that I can better understand the sources of such problems, so yes.
It also makes me feel like a fuckin' boss for being right about something I have basically no right being right about. Go me, with my tact and my humility and my reserved judgement.
Tact and humility and reserving judgment are actually kind of hard to be non-sarcastically proud of.
4826830
Well, Revision maybe a bit strong? I intend to go through with a fine tooth comb. I won't add or take away any of the events, but I will attempt to fix the majority of rough spots in both grammar and structure.
4826845
4826821
Oh, wait, what?
I think you meant intend. I misunderstood, sorry.
4826880
XD yes, I meant 'Intend.' I don't have auto correct to blame for this, just a slip of my own brain.
Oh now that isn't foreboding AT ALLLL!!!