Centuries after the events of Mortal, Celestia struggles with a runaway child, a resentful Twilight Sparkle, and the looming threat of invasion.
(Commissioned by Golden Vision's generous donation to the Against Malaria Foundation)
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- Member Since 13th May, 2012
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Benman
Benman belongs to a class of bipedal ape notable for its use of tools and clothing, highly adept at symbolic communication such as language and art.
Benman
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Hmmm....
Not a big fan of the previous one, but you did manage to hook me with this opening.
How about instead of 4 spaces, try using the horizontal rule button to indicate a setting change? I found it a little confusing.
They're... so alike...
Is this correctly marked as complete, or will it go on?
Its a bit very open if its complete, more like an intermission between two stories.
Based on the description alone, it looks like we will see things from Celestia's point of view, whether the events of those last centuries have comfirmed or challenged her previous opinions.
3282583
I hope that is a mistake. It would be short for a sequel.
Wait... ok I'll grant you that this a well written story but I really, really want to strangle Twilight. Death happens, death is part of life, part of the ultimate cycle of the universe. To disrupt that is lunacy, and to make an entire nation based on that sounds like hell. And to call Celestia a murder for letting that cycle continue... you have no idea how angry that makes me.
3282659
Agreed.
3282659
This debate was heavily had in the comment thread to mortal, and im not sure this is the place to rehash it. If you intend, you may want to try to put forth a bit more of an argument.
Like this i could also say to let people die when it could be stopped is lunacy, and would make make you a murderer...or something. It also presumably makes immortality advocates (which i would be counted amongst) angry.
If you wish to debate this, or even hope to convince anyone, try to make a bit more formulated and less emotional response.
3282773
I never read Mortal, and I don't think I will. Death is part of life, everything dies. Even gods die according to most mythologies. I won't debate this since it will become emotional.
Life to Death to Rebrith, a cycle seen everywhere.
3282773
I never read Mortal, and I don't think I will. Death is part of life, everything dies. Even gods die according to most mythologies. I won't debate this since it will become emotional.
Life to Death to Rebrith, a cycle seen everywhere.
3282659
There isn't a problem with it.
Letting it remain stagnant, letting the exact same ponies handle everything forever? That is a problem. As it is properly shown here. Eternal life means you must be willing to accept eternal change, something Twilight isn't ready to do yet.
3282835
Very well, but you understand that you come across as a bit ... mhm, arrogant isnt quite the right word, but you proceed to call people who hold a different view from you lunatics, proclaim your supposed truth like it should be self evident, but refuse to further elaborate.
Also you insult the protagonist of the previous story severly, without having read that story and seeing how she got where she is, when thinking about that issue was the whole point of that story.
To you death is natural and should not be meddled with may seem self-evident, but to others death is a disease/failing and should be cured is just as self evident. Which shows if anything that "its selfevident/ovious/etc. to me" makes poor arguments.
You come across a bit like a preacher who cannot bear to hear opposing views, but im probablymisjudging you there.
Without willingness to debate this will have to end at a sort of agree to disagree, but if you keep espousing your views you will find them challenged.
Also you doubleposted there, but im gonna assume that wasnt intentional.
Fascinating. Babes in paradise leaving it to witness age and sickness for the first time. Buddha beholds the beggars. Static versus dynamic, continuity versus change, order versus chaos, and Celestia finds herself on the side she'd never thought she'd take.
Great read, especially since you made clear Elysium isn't perfect. There are pros and cons to each approach. It's just that it is a very difficult choice to make.
I had not expected Nightmare Rarity here. Please tell me this is a syndrome and not what is usually known as the Nightmare in fanfics or the Nightmare Forces / Energy in the comic book series.
Anyway, I like this Elysium and the social struggle over age discrimination the story appears to focus on. I think Celestia might help Twilight understand this problem, all the while realising the absurdity of her own Equestria. As for Summer Solace, I have no idea what she will do.
I do hope the story is not complete.
I loved reading about your antideathist society. I hope this isn't complete, because I'd love to see more.
It still feels like reading a horror story with this universe; Elysium's words and deeds are almost sickening to me. But I'm aware that I'm a minority, being on Celestia's philosophical side. Nevertheless, it was stirring as much as its predecessor.
do kinda like the concept, except for a few points. largely there is another side to the alicorn that seems to be part of the mythos. while i will not go and bring up the fact tiwlight is not immortal, as the concept is what if she is, the problem with the alicorn is that not everyone can deal with that power and responsiblity. in equestria girls we see what actually happens when someone forces an alicorn traansformation. sunset shimer sought to become greater tahn she is, a rather selfish act, and used the crown to do so, knwoing from a dark book that she could be turend into an alicorn, or in that case some human equivalent of one.
the result was that she became a monster. from twilight's transformation, the alicorn power comes from some inner strength, and it is known that alicorns have the features of all ponies in one. however she was no truly changed because she hide nothing of herself from herself. she did not become corrupted. this means that anyone who wanted to be an alicorn to escape the mortal coil would thus become a corrupted alicorn, as it is with slefishness and fear that drives them isntead of discovery. because at their core they have this weakness, a overwhelming darkness. and it would not be like something they could get over, they would be possessed by their own darkside, worse than nightmare moon. the only way to free them would be to reverse the transformation.
Interesting. And I kind of feel like Twilight might be on the verge of going Nightmare herself. She's deluding herself on certain things after all. She was always trying to learn things and being told you can't do this or that because there were others ahead of her would not have sat well. And she's not showing herself a good judge of character. Nightmare Moon was not a sign of jealousy from Luna it was a sign of anger and agression and even hatred.
Plus she's just allowing her ponies to delude themselves about things like Celestia behavior. And I have a feeling that none of the ponies who go nuts lose their jobs or anything after going nuts. Which might seem good, but if you get promoted upward and do a job for a century and a half it's pretty easy to be pissed when your job is given back to the returned original
and I don't know if you covered this in the original, did Celestia ascend like all these other ponies, and did she know immortality would result?
3283505
How about...
1. Spellcheck? Noone here asks for perfection but that is horrible.
2. Coherency?
3. An argument that amounts to more than just baseless speculation?
--3A: We have no idea if whatever sunset shimmer did had anything to do with alicorns.
--3B: Its kind of a leap of logic that anyone not in perfect balance would be corrupted.
----3B1:In mortal we hear that part of becoming an alicorn like this involves finding inner harmony, so your logic is not solid there.
--3C: And transformed out of fear or even greed, if we let that stand, does not in anyway conclude to automatic ultimate evil. Many things are done out of fear or some sort of selfishness that end well, or at least not bad.
--3D: Did you even read the story? It adresses the very point that not everyone takes it well.
I enjoyed it -- too bad it was just a one shot -- but it was a good continuation.
Please.
This is really good. Keep it up! If you can inspire heated debates like this, you're doing it right.
3283708 perhaps i could have been more clear at least. basically from analysis the alicorn transformation is rare to begin with as because few ponies have that kinda fortitude to handle it. from what can be observed from twilight's transformation, the transformation happens by drawing out some kind of inner power from the pony, as evident as magic emerged from her chest. one could say that the real power of their 'true selves' and drawn out.
sunset shimmer displayed why this should not just happen to anyone. from the idw comics, it shows that she was trying to become an alicorn, hoping to match celestia's power. she always craved power, to improve herself further and further. yet she was not EVIL persay. at one point she actually gave up considerable power over twilight when she tried to force her to give her the element of harmony. when it came to threatening someone's life, she was completely unwilling to go that far.
however the moment she put on that crown everything went wrong. all of inner faults mutated her form into some demonic shape, a human equivalent of a corrupt alicorn. suddenly she lost her normally dominative demeanor for a demented, unstable persona, and tried to kill twilight, when moments before the idea of even pretending to threaten someone's life was too far for her to go.
basically if there is enough darkness in a pony's heart, whether sunset's greed or seeking power and immortality for fear of the reaper's embrace, if they go through a forced alicorn transformation they will lose control immediately. and it is not as simple as locking them up till they become more mentally stable, the only way to save them is to reverse the damage done somehow.
Fascinating as Mortal was, I hope we see more in this pantheon.
While it's clear Elysium has yet to work out all its kinks - it has eternity to do so. What's 500 years in a life that will last billions? Fifty thousand years from now, ponies will look back at the times of 'turbulence' and smile fondly.
It has been some time since I've read Mortal - so I forget if the story came down solidly on the 'There is no Afterlife' side of things. I want to say it did, in which case, much as I love Celestia, she is simply wrong in every way possible. If life went on past life - it is one thing. But if this is all there is? Then yes - she is allowing death via neglect.
Though in truth, perhaps, in the real world, it would be a middle road - people would ultimately be allowed to leave the hallowed spires and let their lives end naturally. I suspect many would do so, and at least of the generations that lived when mortal death was a common thing, most ultimately would.
But for the rest of us? I will go on. I want to be able to say, billions of years from now, to some child of a mere 50,000 years that yes, I was one of the Last. One of the truly Ancient Ones. And I will smile - for that taste of mortality will make Eternity that much sweeter.
MORE NOW MORE NOW MORE NOW MORE NOW
I'm noting that Twilight conspicuously never indicated whether or not she had ever snapped and been placed in the Cloister. Interesting thought. I suspect she did.
A very good follow up to a great fanfic. I sincerely hope that there isn't the end, I would particularly like to see the relationship mended between Twilight and Celestia
The story is
The characterizations are
The characters are
though, there really are few stories on Fimfiction that make me really want to throttle the main characters or think it would be easier to say "screw it" and vaporize the entire planet. Mind you, that is quite the achievement, as it means I'm really invested in your characters.....but closure needs to happen
The lack of maturity on the side of Twilight Sparkle and her nation is telling. There are no real consquences and therefor all of them are acting in varying degrees of being children. Who needs to grow up when nothing you do really matters, when you will likely never get a chance to do anything, when you literally have all the time and resources to never need to grow up. They do not take responsibility for their own actions or allow others to take responsibility for theirs and lash out like children with a temper tantrum.
The previous story really failed at the end to show off what are the core issues of eternal life for all in a limited world. It was supposed to not take sides but frankly did not deliver in that ideal. The biggest issue was of course that the previous story dealt in the short term and these are long term problems. Perhaps this story will show off the problems so we can get past the easy emotional appeal of immortality.
I also find it unbelievable that you have hundreds of years of many ponies becoming immortal, having children, converting non-ponies, and expanding and they have not run into real logistical problems. Alicorns still need resources and with their unchecked populations that will make them lose it faster than anybody and those are the sort of things wars are made from.
I'm now just waiting for the bang. Body's of Twilight's ponies may be immortal, but their mind will not last, so what if it takes centuries or a few millennium to happen in the end they will snap. Be it a difference of opinion or the lack of things to do, the Alicorns will eat each other. Or better yet an thing they can't stop a virus they did not see and cannot stop, or an enemy is bigger then them with no chance for victory. it could happen a number of ways, but regardless even if you don't count an afterlife there is always a challenge and fall not even the mightiest can last forever. Sorry for the rant and heat, but this subject just annoys me almost as much as the Conversion Bureau stories. I will say its well written and its a nice follow up to your previous story.
I enjoyed this story. But most of the comments are completely missing the actual moral of the original story, Mortal, and this one. It's not about Life and Death, it's about Choice and Freedom.
In Mortal, Twilight was forced to allow her friends to choose their fate, life or death. Most likely, almost anyone in Elysium (which needs to be further explored) is also given that choice. She supports it, and fights for the right to choose, thus she prevents her people from moving into Equestria proper. There are definitely problems with her society, no argument, but it's unfair to call it a broken system.
Celestia, at the end, seems to take the fact that Twilight promotes choice to heart. Granted, no clue how long that would last if her daughter ends up killing herself trying to save the mortals from pain and suffering, but that too falls into the problem of choice, and Twilight's daughter hasn't learned that lesson yet. Indeed, it seems like most of the younger Alicorns haven't come to that conclusion.
Not to say that the older ones are much better... Celestia was pretty adamant about denying ponies the right to choose, though she eventually softened, if begrudgingly, in Mortal.
It's interesting that there's built in safety mechanics in the society. So what if one does snap? They can be instantly contained, and provided the help they need.
3285425
life and death isn't exactly a choice it's easy to take back either way, and despite what they may think each time one of them makes that choice it affects others dramatically.
as to the question on what happens if they snap, that assumes they snap in an obvious way.
Squee! I am all in favour of this. Elysium seems aptly-named. It has problems, like any society, but I'll take "at some point, we should figure out what to do about the elders hogging all the best jobs" over DEATH.
3282837 Death is a part of life for now. Why should it remai- oh. So you're just going to state your baseless opinion, then refuse to actually back your argument up against conflicting opinions. Class act, kiddo
3285176 Why should they run out of resources? The last chapters of Mortal made it very clear they can fly faster than light, and create food from thin air. They're a race of magical demigods. Things like 'conservation of energy' are problems they solved a long time ago. You're looking at a post-scarcity society; stand agog and marvel.
3285335 Yeah, uh, they have a solution for that. It's called the Cloister. Alicorns totally do snap every now and then - but eternity leaves plenty of time to heal.
3284774
You are ignoring Mortal, aka the predecessor to this story. We see there that to turn into an alicorn, even with the method the elysians here use, requires an attunement with inner harmony. We see this when in the original rainbow at first couldnt transform, until she managed to overcome her anger at twilight.
Whatever Sunset shimmer did was not an alicorn transformation, regardless of what she originally hoped to archive. This may have to do with only holding one element instead of all six, and when exposed to the other elements she was reverted.
Also, in this story noone is forced trough the transformation, indeed the way it works here it cant be forced on anyone.
On the whole in these discussions i often get the feelings that many on the "death" side of things somehow start with the ultimate assumption that death is definitely right, and then work backwards from there to find justifications for that view.
Im not saying the other side is innocent of such, but if there is any serious debate to be had, both sides must acknowledge that the subject is debatable, aka that they could in theory be made to change their views, as unlikely as that is to happen in an internet debate.
3285574
While I love the original Mortal and this new chapter, this is something that really bothers me about the whole story. The details of their immortality:
-> Agelessness. They grow to adulthood but time does not weaken them.
-> Regeneration. They will recover from any injury, not necessarily fast.
-> Undeath. They can never ever die, no matter the extent of their injuries.
The first one is awesome and drives most of the story. The second one is good enough. But with the last one we get the possibility of eternal torment. Let the sadist inside; Get trapped under a boulder; Watch the sun go nova; They may not rhyme but they are quite possibly some of the worst times to not die.
3285785 no, all she needed was to get that crown on the other side of the portal. if she needed the other elements she would have stoeln them as well..... it would seem that the reasons include, A, she is more attuned to the element of magic and B, the characteristics of the element of magic obviously changed. not to be corruption but to be able to work independently of the others. as Sunset aske twilight, what happens when an element of harmony goes to another world?
and i said alicorn equivalent. she was not a alicorn only because she wasn't a pony, but human at the time. twilight herself became and alicorn equivalent, and as you saw her aspects were the opposite of sunset; moer angelic. had sunset made it to the other side she would have turned back into a pony, and thus a corrupt alicorn, more corrupt than even nightmare moon.
.....that seems a contradiction to me with rainbow dash to begin with. she could nto transform because she was angry with twilight and feared death. yet if she lost her anger at twilight, that would mean she no longer feared death as well, so she would not want to........ even MORE so it would probably mean that extremely few ponies to begin with would have the inner strength to become an alicorn even ignoring the potential for corruption. the elements are a given. but one else? debatable.
and death IS always right because death is the ultimately inevitability. twilight in this story will eventually die. so will elysium. so will luna, cadance, and even celestia herself. i am not against extending your life, thoguh it is not something you hand out like candy. however tiwlight is delusional and wrong to think she coudl create a deathless society.....
actually now that i think about it, i gotta call bullshit on no one dying there. if rarity lost control not once, but thrice, she would have killed somebody. note of mlp universe. when a pony is lost to corruption, their powers become dark and are augmented violently. if rarity lost control, she owuld be stronger than normal alicorns. she would have at least killed somebody, if not three alicorns, by now. all of elsyium is a lie for it is only a few mad alicorns away from become a hellhole.
.....biggest problem i had with the previous story, if still a good story, is that celestia was made far more shallow simply so we cannot just side with her. what right does twilight have to challenge the thoughts of a being over a thousand years old, who has witnessed eleven lifetimes, and likely has suffered that crushing loss more times than twilight could comrpehend? worse of all, someone who likely found comfort in the company of her equally immortal sister, only to have her lost to madness and pain for a thousand years? hell the story could have been celestia looking on in sadness, depressed that her student is basically trapping herself in a time bomb, rather than becomign steely. if losing her sister for a thousand years did not turn her to solid granite, then twilight would not either .
like i said, death is right because death is unstoppable. death is the plague that ravages your body. death is the beasts that hunts you. death is the very earth itself unleashing its wrath. death is time that sucks the life from the greatest of men and chews mountains into meal. death is the true alpha and omega, and even gods and universes must bow to him....... yet death, more than anything, is the kindly carriage man who waits till you are ready. death is the closing of the book, and the writing of another. death is the sunset and night that comes before every sunrise. to hide from death is to hide from reality. by all means resisting death is by itself the greatest achievement. but there is no stopping him. for he will wait and wait, sitting on the carriage, awaiting the time you finally relent and step in. the only plausible way to stop death, is to not live to begin with.
3286020
The truly undying thing is a possible problem, but there may be solutions.
As already pointed out conservations of mass and energy, and from what we see now time and space are not limitations, so there isnt some necessary final countdown to the universe. They could quite concivably go on forever.
This is of course not adressing the real problems, some sort of horrible accidents (or deliberate cruelty), and the possibility of someone truly wishing to die.
The first is a problem that in lesser respect every society faces, and its not insurmountable. There can be plenty safeguard imaginable that could be implemented as deemed necessary, crime and accident being possible problems in many places. Whith the worst case results (death on one side, bad existance for long time on the other) being somewhat horrifying on both.
Truly wishing to die is different. It may be treated as a treatable mental illness, and maybe it can be treated, maybe everyone would find something to live for. We reach into unknowable territory here.
The other possibility is that with eternity, and all this power, they may well find a way. Ideally something that like the ascension could only be done by the truly willing, or otherwise something like murder may reappear.
If no means is found, there could still be other means. Alicorns can sleep, we know that ponies can be turned to stone etc. Or maybe smash their head and trap them in a way to prevent the brain from regenerating. Now all that would have to be tested first, but its quite possible a way could be found to render them effectively comatose, which from a consciousness viewpoint may be comparable to death, aka, not there.
Nothing guranteed, but there are possibilities.
3285770 death is the true inevitability. there is no real avoidance. even if we made ourselves immortal to time, we are not invincible to tragedy and disaster, to aggression and murder. even if you lived eternal you would be eventually destroyed when this very universe collapses in, and you are reduced to nothing as it is reborn anew.
3286038
3286059
I will try to remain civil, but you seem to ignore contradicting arguments and present your speculations as fact.
Sunset Shimmer has very little to do with this story, we dont know what she did, we dont know what would have happend had she moved back trough the portal in that state, if anything it wasnt the same because normal alicorn transformation, at least as it happens in this story, is not so easily reversible. Yet somehow you state as a fact that she would be "worse than nightmare moon", whatever that means exactly. What feats we see from her in the film certainly wont put her on that level, so very much *citation needed*.
The second point, is that you assume fear of death is automatically wrong or a corrupting element...why? How does not wanting to die automatically lead to corruption?
Celestias characterization... is the point I slightly agree with in a way, i would have pictured her reacting somewhat differently, but probably also very differently from how you picture her. And some of your bits sound either authorianismic (she right because shes celestia) or the very same mistake thats happening here (shes right because shes older). And the thing with Luna may just as easily be seen as impeding her rational judgement. Her attempt to ascend someone else went wrong, so she wont let anyone else try it.
About death being inevitable.. ill try point by point.
First you say life extension shouldnt just be handed out, why? Here it seems to mostly work out right. The problems are under control.
But the main point, death being always inevitable in the long run. Bluntly, you cant know that, things like conservation of mass and energy, and fabric of space and time, they are already overcoming, so there is no definite enddate.
But on the other hand, you may also be right. In eternity, all things could change, and maybe they are not as immortal as they believe themselves to be. However, how would that in any way mean they couldnt or shouldnt try to be so? That they shouldnt attempt to improve things as far as they will go? Your argument seems pretty defeatist, and if one gives up because they belive they will never reach perfection, they will never reach anything.
A long time ago people would belive what we have today to be impossible. Many would, and have stated that some things like science shouldnt be attempted because they would never amount to anything, or you could never understand everything. Even if they were right on the last point, look how far we have come, and how fast we are still going further.
Even should something prove impossible, dosent mean we cant try to improve in that direction.
Also you are bluntly ignoring the "facts" of the story were it contradicts your worldview. You state that a corrupted rarity would have definitely killed someone, and treat this opinion as fact, when it simply dosent happen here. Just because you cant imagine something dosent mean it cant exist.
I think many of the problems that having a population of immortal people has been taken away from this story due to the ease in which the immortals are able to sustain themselves. Without the magic to simply conjure whatever food and drink they wanted the endless growth of the population would be unsustainable. However, with that magic they can sustain the unsustainable. Though, in the end, death comes for us all. Run away Immortal beings, death will still find you. It is the way of things.
3286052
Even with so many precautions, it introduces the possibility of a fate worse than death that would last forever and ever and all eternity, also known as Hell.
This is another huge bet to make. If someone asked me how long I think I could live before being fed up with existence itself, I would say let's find out! But eternity might really be more than anybody could chew.
Mourning, Solemnity, Restraint, Acceptance, Severity and Nature make the de-alicornification spell all complete. Although there would always be a way to torture a pony into willingness. Someone needs to write Cupcakes Forever.
This is Miracle Day all over again.
I rarely leave stories favorited after they have completed, but this and mortal are definitely one of them.
Great work on the world, and I certainly wouldn't mind more stories set in it.
3285770
Time to heal, yes
Will they still fall, yes again
as I said the fall does not have to involve an Alicorn, but just something they don't see. Heck it could be Discord find a way for the elements not to work on him.The fall for any civilization good or bad, powerful or weak, it will fall. If there is one thing that can wait for its chance its death. But there is a greater force, Time, eventually time will catch them as well.since nothing in existence last forever. Plus this civ is just like all the other mortal civs, its a house of cards and all you need to do is just mess up once for it all to come crashing down.
Says the pony who banished her own sister to the moon for a millennium.
3286659
Celestia did not believe Luna fit to be an alicorn, yet she turned her into one anyway because she could not let her sister die. Then Luna became Nightmare Moon and only came back to her senses after a thousand years of isolation. Celestia believes herself a fool for thinking she could just make somepony she loves immortal, with the banishment of Nightmare Moon being proof enough of that. But Twilight, who knows all of this, has created a whole nation of alicorns where the same tragedy repeats over and over.
That's how I think Celestia sees it.
I don't think you quite found this story's ending, but good work so far anyway.
3284873
I pre-read this story, picking it apart with a fine-toothed comb … and yet it never occurred to me to ask that.
Fascinating question. There is a fanfic in that.
3282659
Yes death is a part of life, but to allow it to control you..
Do you believe in destroying hospitals? Going back to non-medical ways as well as destroying most of Modern Life as we know it? Because we've been expanding our lifespans beyond what most people would've thought centuries ago, now we can produce more food through unnatural means with increasing crop-spans and vast technology keeping people alive far longer then should've been normal.
Death is a part of life, but one does not allow it to control you if you could.
3285176
In the modern times we've fixed it through genetically modified food that went from feeding millions, to billions. Magic has been shown to grow more powerfully under Twilights rule and it's likely they've produced far more food then natural.
A sequel?! YES! First chapter's great, I can't wait for the ne-
What will happen to Summer Solace? Blaze and the rest of the rebels/opposition? Will someone figure out how to de-immortalize alicorns? Will they find a way to revive dead pones? What about the other races? Do they have their own "alicorns", or do they turn into ponies? Where's Luna in all this? Pinkie Pie, Spike, the CMC? Discord, Chrysalis, and everyone else? How long will Equestria last, anyway? Will all the mortals leave, or will the immortals break through the frontier wards? Will Twilight and Celestia ever become friends again? Will they colonize space? What is scrith, exactly? Is it like adamantium? How does Etherball work? Can non-alicorns play it? Did Derpy become an alicorn? If so, did that un-derp her eyes? Um, there's some things that are still unresolved here, guys! How do I get home? What do I eat? Was Rei my-my mom? Or a clone? Or, hell, was this all in my mind? Wha-what's an EVA? Is that sort of a Freudian thing? Er… um Am I real? Oh, hell, does a bus run through here? I mean, I'd like to go home now but um… Oh God… Where's home? Okay, okay, okay. I mustn't run away, I mustn't run... Okay I got that, good, okay. Now, if I were to run away, let's analyze that: Where the fuck would I go? I'm on a big blue ball! Uhh, is this how you end the series? I mean, is this where we go from here? Okay, the movie better sure as Hell make up for this, I'm telling you right now, 'cause I'm stuck in Nowhereland! You ran outta ink too, didn't you, ya bastards?
Also, despite everyone complaining about Elysium being stagnant, it really isnt. Maybe in some ways, but they are building, creating art, resarching new things, expanding their capabilities, magical and otherwise. Moving beyond celestias knowledge in a few places.
So while there is some problems with whos in charge, stagnant its not in most things.