No Bad Deed Goes Unpunished
Queen Chrysalis was having an absolutely marvelous day.
The final stragglers from the ill-fated invasion of Canterlot had finally been returned to the Hive, her drones had begun the long process of re-infiltrating the outer cities of Equestria, and-most importantly to Queen Chrysalis- her belly was full.
The light purple mare with the grape and strawberry cutie mark was carried out of her chambers by a quartet of her personal servants as Chrysalis lightly dabbed at her mouth with a napkin. While Changelings didn’t actually use their mouths to feed, instead relying upon their inherent magic to siphon emotional energy from their victims, some pony habits had gradually made their way into Changeling culture. Spending large amounts of time impersonating another species tends to have that effect.
Her afternoon meal, meanwhile, would have her recent memories erased and be placed back in her home in Ponyville. It was not the first time they had abducted this particular pony to use as food; her reputation as a lush around the small hamlet lent credibility to her short, frequent disappearances. She would wake in a day’s time, feeling effects similar to a severe hangover and be back to full health within the week. In a month, she would most likely be ponynapped again and the cycle would repeat. The Swarm kept a small list of ponies on rotation to survive upon until they were prepared to once again launch their assault upon Equestria. Then they would gorge themselves.
Chrysalis, meanwhile, merely collapsed onto a large pile of fine, silk pillows. She drifted in a state of half-wakefulness and savored the feeling of being full. It was a rare sensation as of late; her drones had once been able to acquire many more ponies for food, but the Invasion had changed all that. The Equestrian Royal Guard had been retrained to deal with her subjects, and ponies everywhere had been put on alert.
Even before the attack food had been short. She had gambled that an open invasion would obtain for them the resources they required, but her plan had failed and nourishment was harder to come by than ever.
‘It’s no matter,’ she thought darkly, ‘next time I will be more thorough. Eliminate any possible threats before making my move.’
The Equestrian Princesses would prove a challenge, but Celestia was thought to be the strongest among them, and Chrysalis had beaten her once. Even without Shining Armor’s love, she could find a way to do it again. With Celestia out of the way, Luna alone would be no match for her. Cadance was a problem easily solved; she was naïve and easily fooled. By the time she suspected anything she would be waking inside a cocoon.
That left Twilight Sparkle.
‘The little brat.’
The Element of Magic was dangerous, that was certain. It was through her actions that the invasion had failed in the first place. Without her suspicions of Chrysalis’ impersonation and subsequent rescue of Cadance, the whole thing would have gone off without a hitch. Wings and the magical might of Alicornhood would only make her more of an obstacle.
Still, Chrysalis was a clever mare, and she wouldn’t make the mistake of underestimating the youngest alicorn again.
Content with her musings for the moment, Chrysalis allowed the many plans and schemes constantly running through her head to fall by the wayside for the moment. She would bask in the harvested emotion while she could. There was plenty of time for her ambitions when her stomach, or its Changeling equivalent at least, was less satisfied.
A small shiver ran through her and she grimaced. The underground caverns were cold. They never cooled to the point of being unhealthy, merely somewhat uncomfortable. Chrysalis wished they could be heated, but that would require energy that could not be spared. Instead, she used her magic to pull a thick blanket from a nearby pile over herself. The heavy warmth settled over her and delivered her comfort anew. A blissful sigh escaped her as her head sank into the Saddle Arabian cushions.
Her mind free, memories of her youth bubbled to the surface and allowed a rare smile to bloom. It was not her usual leer or even an arrogant smirk, but a soft and genuine grin she had so few occasions to use. Thoughts of scampering through small patches of desert flowers with her Brood Sisters danced across her mind’s eye. She remembered when she and Carapace would spend entire days playing never ending back and forth games of tag and hide-n-seek. Light, girlish giggles echoed in her ears from days long past, and for a few moments Chrysalis was happy.
A loud knock on her chamber doors brought her back to real world. A cool, underground cavern replaced the homes carved out of canyon walls of her youth. What flowers still bloomed in the scorching heat of the Badlands wilted and died in the decades-long draught. Carapace, her dimpled chitin still fresh behind Chrysalis’s eyes, was long dead and buried.
Chrysalis growled.
‘They should know better than to bother me after my meal.’
“What is it? Why have you disturbed your Queen?” she barked at the door from her pile.
The nervous stutter of a drone answered her. “Y-y-your Majesty, We have captured a trespasser o-on the s-surface. It is the S-sun Princess.”
‘What?’
Chrysalis’ ears peaked in interest. She pushed herself to her perforated hooves, despite her body’s encouragements to sink back into their soft embrace, and opened her door. Before her an unremarkable Changeling bowed deeply on the ground between the two larger Warrior Drones who guarded her door.
“Did I hear you right? You say you have captured the Sun Princess? As in, Celestia?” she asked, disbelievingly. The drone nodded eagerly.
“Y-yes Your Majesty.” If possible, it seemed to be trying to sing even further into the ground.
Chrysalis raised a skeptical brow. “And how, I ask, did you manage such a feat?”
“S-she came upon a party of workers near the South-Eastern burrow and surrendered herself, s-saying she wished an audience with you, Your Majesty.”
‘What game is she playing?’
Chrysalis considered the situation for a moment before remembering the cowering drone in front of her. “Where is she now?”
“The Outer Barrack Cells, Your Majesty,” it squeaked out pathetically.
“Lead me there. Now.” Her subject pushed its head even further to the ground and acknowledged her command before practically scurrying away through one of the poorly-lit tunnels that made up the Changeling Hive. Chrysalis rolled her eyes before casually striding after it, her two Warrior Drones following a respectful distance behind. Sometimes ruling through fear and intimidation was quite trying. She truly cared for her subjects, but to show compassion was to show weakness and invite one of the juvenile Princesses to make a grab for the throne. Such was the way of the Hive.
The earthen tunnels wound confusingly through a network of dead ends, access ways, and express lines. It was all designed so that were an invader to brave the horrid environment that was the Badlands above, they would become confused and lose cohesion in the subterranean complex. It was a system that had protected the Changelings for as long as could be recalled. After living most of her life in the labyrinth, Chrysalis was able to navigate it with ease, but it would be improper for her to travel without at least a single servant or guard. She was a Queen, and Queens did not travel without a retinue.
It did not take long for Chrysalis to reach the Outer Barrack Cells, as anyone who found themselves in her path made themselves scarce. When she arrived she found the facility was almost empty, save one cell. Envisioned as a method of storing various species for food reserves, it was almost depressingly unutilized.
The cells themselves were each two-room designs. One half consisted of the cell itself, with thick iron bars with magic resistant gem cores. The second half consisted of a chamber hidden behind a layer of special ichor that acted as a one-way mirror. The ichor was crafted in such a way that it appeared as simply a normal section of granite wall, but allowed those in the second room to spy on prisoners without being detected.
Chrysalis stepped into the observation room of the only occupied cell and found a strange sight; Princess Celestia, the Thousand Year Monarch and Goddess of the Sun, laying on the hard floor and casually flipping through a small magazine. Her demeanor was that of someone in a waiting room rather than that of a prisoner.
‘I’ll give her this, she can play the calm and collected card quite well when she wants to.’ As a professional actor whose performance was literally life or death, Chrysalis had to appreciate good acting when she saw it.
“Has she said anything since she was brought in?” Chrysalis demanded. The drone shook its head so quickly Chrysalis was sure she heard something pop in its neck. The thought nearly made her grimace, but her visage remained stern.
“Very well. I shall interrogate her myself.” She strolled from the observation room towards the hall that connected to the cell and turned to her two personal soldiers. “Ensure we are not disturbed.” Both bowed deeply and took up places on either side of the cell’s only door. Chrysalis lit her horn and closed the observation room’s door before prying open the cell’s bars.
She strode through confidently, exuding royal prestige and authority with her chin held high. She looked down her nose at the white alicorn who hadn’t bothered to look up from her reading.
“So lovely to see you again, Celestia,” she said loftily. She made sure to look down her snout at the Equestrian enough that it was obvious she was doing it, but not so obvious as to make herself vulnerable to an attack. Her horn remained lit with her most powerful offensive spells, the sickly green light shining onto the hard rock walls.
“Good afternoon,” Celestia acknowledged warmly, as if she were just another pony. Still her eyes remained on the magazine, which annoyed Chrysalis.
“Have you come to surrender yourself and plead for mercy?” she asked.
‘Best to at least appear confident in your power, even if right now you couldn’t capture a sand castle.’
“Actually I wondered if I might get your opinion on something.”
Chrysalis raised a curious eyebrow. “Oh? And what might that be?”
“Do you like tea?” Celestia asked, looking up from her magazine for the first time since Chrysalis had seen her.
‘What.’
“W-what?” Chrysalis stammered, thrown off by the odd question. Celestia tittered lightly at her expression.
“Oh, I apologize. That question must have seemed like a bit of nonsense.” Celestia giggled and held a hoof to her chest. Her horn lit in golden light that overpowered the room’s single torch and Chrysalis’ own magic glow. Chrysalis started to recoil before she noticed the yellow light surround the magazine which floated up to reveal the title; ‘Tea Time Variety Catalogue.’
“You see, my sister and I have recently revived an old tradition of ours. Once a week we present each other with the gift of a new tea blend for the other to enjoy. Luna always manages to find the most wonderful flavors, but I’m afraid I can never quite compare. I had hoped you might be of some assistance?” The sincerity in her tone was for some reason deeply unsettling to the Queen.
“W-Changelings don’t drink tea. We don’t drink anything.” It was common knowledge that normal food and drink was of no value to Changeling physiology.
Celestia frowned. “Shame. I had hoped your experience in impersonating ponies would have given you some personal favorites at the very least.”
Chrysalis had momentarily lost control of the situation. It was just so odd that it left her stumbling.
“You crossed two hundred miles of scorching desert to ask me what flavor of tea I like?”
“Well of course,” Celestia rolled her eyes as if it was obvious.
Bewildered, Chrysalis could only think to ask, “And what led to your decision to seek out my counsel, of all beings?” Celestia sighed, her shoulders sagging slightly in light exasperation.
“I couldn’t very well ask Luna," she said in a tone reminiscent of a teacher instructing a particularly dense student, "and my staff would simply say ‘whatever you prefer, Your Highness.’ Twilight has always been more of a coffee drinker, and Cadance is, well, she and Shining Armor have been… indisposed I suppose is the polite term. You know how newlyweds are,” she giggled again.
Chrysalis did in fact know how newlyweds could be. She had taken the place of newly minted brides (and the rare groom, too) on many occasions. The exchange of emotion, the cataclysmic rolling bombardment of feeling that recently married ponies gave off was absolutely splendid. Creatures prone to more physical foodstuffs would compare it to the finest of meals soaked in the most expensive of wines and served with solid gold cutlery.
“And how is the blushing bride?” Chrysalis asked in attempt to regain control of the conversation. If she could get Celestia angry, it would give her a chance to manipulate the alicorn’s emotions. As it was, trying to sense the Princess’ state of mind was like trying to run through a brick wall.
Instead of rising to the prod, Celestia gave a small smile. “She’s doing wonderfully. Her time in the mines didn’t do nearly as much harm as I had feared, and Shining Armor has supported her dutifully through what difficulties there are.” Chrysalis leered lecherously.
“Yes, I do remember how dutifully he supported my own enterprise.” Again to her surprise Celestia agreed.
“He’s quite the stallion, that much is sure. It is no wonder Twilight turned out as amazingly as she did with an influence such as him.” Pride radiated from the Royal and saturated the air.
“Oh yes, quite the stallion indeed,” Chrysalis purred. “I’ll make sure he is captured unharmed once my Swarm falls upon your Kingdom. It would be a shame to waste such a delicious specimen.”
Celestia quirked an eyebrow. “You sound quite sure of your eventual triumph. Personally, I am somewhat skeptical of your capabilities. The individuals who escorted me here seemed a bit gaunt for soldiers.”
“Perhaps my Changelings aren’t at their physical best,” Chrysalis huffed, “But without their precious Princess, the ponies will fall easily. I have learned from my mistakes, and I shall not make them again. Next time I will succeed, and my subjects will set upon Equestria like a swarm of locust!”
For once, Chrysalis spoke with complete sincerity. With Celestia captured, she would be able to infiltrate the highest levels of Equestria. None questioned Celestia, and with that kind of influence she would be able to isolate and destroy Equestria's defenses in a manner that not even Cadance's position had allowed. Even with her subjects weakened by famine, victory was surely within her grasp. Whatever game Celestia was playing was irrelevant. She was alone, surrounded by thousands of Changelings, and Chrysalis was both well fed and still retained a shadow of the power given to her by Shining Armor's love. She would never have a better opportunity, and yet at the same time a voice in the back of her head nagged at her, asking why Celestia would willingly allow herself to fall into such circumstances.
Celestia looked down, her face obscured by her billowing mane. When she looked back up, she bore a contemplative smile. “Perhaps. But then again, perhaps not.”
Shrill tones of shattering glass echoed in the small chambers as Chrysalis laughed. “Oh?” she questioned humorously, unable to keep an arrogant smile off her face. “And how do you expect to stop me? I bested you in your very own Throne Room, and based on your performance I could have done it even without your Captain’s love. Truly, I was surprised at your pathetic performance.”
Princess Celestia’s enigmatic smile widened, and Chrysalis felt a bead of sweat gather on her brow. She lifted a hoof casually to wipe away the sweat and-
Wait, sweat?
“Ah, you’ve noticed have you?” Celestia asked casually and nodded to herself. “You know, for a creature that relies so much upon small nuances for deception, your observational skills could certainly use some work,” she giggled behind a hoof. It took a moment for the information to process, but when it did Chrysalis's stomach dropped; the cave was warm. More than that, it was hot.
“What have you done?” Chrysalis demanded, towering over the prone monarch. Her horn emitted raw power with sickly green light, throwing the chamber into an ominous shade of half-darkness. She used all her arcane senses to detect Celestia's trickery, but she could feel nothing.
“What have I done? I do believe that is the wrong question.” The same arrogant, overbearing, motherly tone that was as much the Sun Princess as her cutie mark drove Chrysalis to grind her teeth in rage. With her attention drawn to it, she was having an increasingly difficult time ignoring the rising temperature in the cell.
“Then what is the correct question?” she snapped. Whatever the Sun Hag was doing, she would put a stop to it. Until she could determine exactly what trick she was performing, however, there was nothing for her to direct her magic towards. Celestia’s horn showed no signs of life, leaving the Changeling Queen bewildered.
“The correct question is what have you done? And I must say, the list is quite long.” For the first time, Celestia raised herself to her haunches and counted off on her hoof. “Wrongful imprisonment, assault on not one but two sitting Princesses, assault upon Equestrian citizens both individually and as a group, assault on the Captain of the Royal Guard,” each time she added an accusation, the temperature rose noticeably, “conspiracy to commit assault upon the Royal Guard, conspiracy to commit assault upon the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony… I could quite literally go on for hours. The Royal Magistrates were quite thorough in amassing charges. I believe there are even several thousand bits worth of fines for unauthorized flight above the Palace grounds.”
By the end of her indictment, Chrysalis was forced to shift from hoof to ragged hoof to prevent the chitin from searing. The heat was becoming unbearable, and when her guards knocked on the door to the cell she knew the heat wasn’t isolated. Her Warrior Drones would never allow her to be disturbed unless they feared her safety was endangered. As powerful as she was, it felt as if she stood in an oven. The heat could have easily been ten times worse for her subjects.
“ENOUGH!” The green magic around Chrysalis’s horn swelled and exploded towards Celestia. Foul magic fueled by stolen emotion came within an inch of the alicorn’s unflinching eyes before being incinerated. Chrysalis blinked, unsure of what she had seen.
No yellow light had erupted from Celestia’s horn, no spell had been cast. Instead, her attack had simply burned. The impossibility of it resounded through her, everything she knew of the arcane destroyed in a single moment. When she turned her eyes away from the dissipating cloud of smoke and back to Celestia, she saw the pony Princess sitting as if nothing had happened.
Celestia stood, and with her the rose the temperature once again. Steam rolled off Chrysalis as sweat instantly vaporized in the torrid air, her eyes dried out when the tears evaporated. No matter how quickly she shifted her hooves, the chitin scorched on contact with the floor. The gem-cored iron bars burned red, and the knocking on the door grew frantic until it stopped completely.
“Now, Queen Chrysalis, that’s no way to treat a visiting head of state,” Celestia scolded as she strolled across the singed glass. Her gilded horseshoes seemed immune from the sizzling fire that should have rendered them to slag. Chrysalis, in agony she could barely comprehend, did her best to stare down her opponent. She was still again, the nerve endings in her hooves burned to nothing. The air was too blistering to breath and rendered her unable to speak. She drew in a single breath when she could resist no more and it baked her throat and lungs.
Robbed of oxygen, her body gave out. She dropped like a stone, the chitin on her stomach fusing with the bubbling rock almost instantly. Celestia looked down at her with sad eyes. Had she the capacity for movement, Chrysalis would have snarled.
I don’t need your pity.
It was a testament to the Queen’s mental fortitude that she was still able to think coherently.
“I am sorry that things turned out this way. I am fully aware that your people were not monsters.” She sighed. “Merely the victims of their nature. No, you’re not a monster Chrysalis.” For a brief, infinitesimal moment in her delirium Chrysalis thought she would be spared. That somehow, the Sun Goddess would turn away the fury of her charge and spare the Changeling Race.
“Unfortunately for you,” she continued darkly, dropping her head to stare into Chrysalis’s boiling eyes, “I am.”
Her hope shattered, followed quickly by the charred chitin of the Queen’s face. Cooked muscle pushed through the broken shards of insectoid skin before turning to ash.
...my......children.....
The final thought of the last Queen of the Changelings echoed through her dying mind before she, and her race, were consumed.
Celestia watched impassively until the last vestige of the Changeling Queen was reduced to nothing by the fiery wrath of the Sun. Satisfied, she ambled through the molten stalactites that had blocked her way. It took her several minutes to make her way to the surface, passing piles of charcoal and soot that were once living beings. She didn't spare them a glance when she passed.
When she reached the surface, she spread her wings and took to the skies. The air would have been hot to any of her subjects, but after the pleasant warmth that had annihilated the Swarm it felt like a brisk winter’s night. Her flight brought her to the edge of her dominion where she was joined by the pair of Pegasus Royal Guards she had left at the border. They asked no questions as they took up a formation behind her.
It was hours later when the trio reached Canterlot. Her sun was falling below the horizon, bathing the land in pleasant shades of twilight. Celestia landed gracefully on her balcony and dismissed her guards with a gentle smile. The stallions saluted and leapt into the creeping darkness, their duty complete.
“Welcome back, sister,” a velvet voice caressed her ears and announced Luna’s presence. Celestia turned and gave the first genuine smile of her long day. After a thousand years apart, just seeing her sister again was enough to put Celestia in good spirits. Luna dissolved out of the shadows with uncanny skill befitting her station as Mistress of the Night. In her magical grasp was a small, light green box tied with yellow ribbon.
Celestia wordlessly approached her sister and embraced her tightly. No words were needed between them. After a moment, the two broke apart and Celestia retrieved her own tribute from her night stand. In minutes, Celestia’s stress melted away as the warm scent of honey roses and lemon jasmine filled her chambers.
As they sipped from the expensive china, the two gazed out through the glass balcony doors at the rising moon. Silver light bathed their shared kingdom in an innocent aura, and their ponies slept peacefully.
"Do you regret it, sister? The things we are forced to do?" Luna asked. There was no need to specify what she referred to. Celestia didn't answer immediately. Instead, she lowered her gaze slightly to watch the streets of Canterlot. Ponies finished with their business for the day were returning home to their families, couples strolled together under the emerging stars, and foals ran under hoof in seemingly endless play. She blinked, and for an instant the multitude of coat colors was replaced by black chitin, long canine fur, and hard reptilian scales. Luna watched as the full weight of thousands of years of watching over and protecting their ponies collapsed on her sister. When Celestia finally spoke, her voice was soft, quiet, and filled with the kind of sadness and regret known only to immortals.
"Not for a single moment."
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............celestia would not kill a helpless enemy......... simple as that. unless the changeligns were truly, unredeemably, monstrous, she would spare them.
Love and tolerate is fine up to the point that you encounter somebeing that only sees you as something to conquer and or destroy. At that point self defense cuts in. if Chrysalis had not reveled her plans to continue attacking Equesteria but had asked Celestia for help I could see her helping, instead she told her that she would not stop but would be back again and again until they were conquered, thus sealing her and her hives fate.
Good story, this explains why Celestia did not go all out in Canterlot.
Hm. This doesn't sit well with me. If the changelings were irredeemable, mindless monsters, then I suppose I can see her doing this. But Celestia is motherly and merciful and works on the defensive, and the fact that she openly says 'I know you're not monsters. I am.' is incredibly jarring, because... well, she isn't. And she wouldn't cook an entire species of thinking beings alive. Chrysalis, maybe, because the Queen proved that she wasn't ever going to cooperate or strive for peace. But the rest of them? This isn't Celestia we're seeing. It's not a Nightmare Sun sort of dichotomy, either. It's just a character with a very different outlook and demeanor than Celestia.
Xenophobe Celestia that simply kills helpless and innocent people...
And then we have the OP magic involved here...
Sorry, but this story gets a dislike by me...
3915680 This is isn't Tyrantlestia? Slowly burning an ENTIRE civilization until only ash remains is extremely tyrannic if you ask me, she didn't even give them a chance to make peace! She simply burned them alive like they don't deserve life.
3916724
Not really all that innocent, in my opinion. And Xenophobic would imply Celestia hates the Changelings, where here I tried to emphasize how sad she is to be doing this but thinks she has to. The worst monsters are people who know what's right and wrong and choose to do wrong. They come up with justifications, but they know what they are.
Not saying you're wrong at all, simply giving the author's intent to compare to how people read it. Your interpretation is just as valid as mine
God dammit celestia... only the emperor is worthy of deciding to execute an entire species. HERESY!!! ALL THE COMMISSARS SHALL KNOW OF YOUR CRIME!!!
3916814 The way you describe it, it sounds like the Allied countries viewed Germany in WW2.
They made an entire countrie's populace responsible for the acts of a few.
Celestia could have beaten Chrysalis or banished her or petrify, so that she can help the changelings to live peacefully. I mean, she tolerated Discord, Nightmare Moon and even spare Sombra (at the first time).
Thinking that the simply goes xenophobe because a race attacked her country out of, HUNGER and NOT hate or greed, is simply unlogical and OOC.
She said that she know's they aren't monsters, so she knows that Chrysalis manipulated them.
How would it be if someone simply kills you, because your country attacked someone other's?
3916940
That's the thing though; for Changelings to live, they have to feed off ponies. Her ponies. She says they're not monsters because they do what they do because it is what their biology forces them to do, but she cannot risk allowing her ponies coming to harm. That is the first, last, and only rule in her mind; my ponies will live in peace. All other conditions are secondary. If you wish to live alongside us, you are welcome. If you wish harm upon us, you are not.
Celestia confesses to being a monster because she has taken it upon herself to commit the atrocities that allow her ponies to live in peace, instead of asking them to fight for themselves.
Also, as to Germany in WW2. It was a lot more than 'a few.' It took the entire industrial apparatus and population to fight that war. Whether they supported hitler, or were members of the nazi party doesn't really matter. They weren't evil for supporting their country, they were just fighting on a bad side. Even if the average german wasn't directly involved in the holocaust(specifically the holocaust; war in general is undesirable but supporting your nation in war is hardly unusual) they at least knew something was happening. Millions of Jews don't just disappear. The German people accepted putting the Jews in ghettos, because at least they weren't being attacked. Then they accepted putting them in work camps, because there was a war on. Then they convinced themselves that the peculiar smell from the nearby 'work' camp was just cooking meat, even though they all knew what cooking beef smelled like. It wasn't what they were smelling.
There's going along with the crowd, then there's complicity to genocide.
3916988
But she let Sombra, Nightmare Moon and Discord live who were a gigantic threat to her ponies?
And you pointed out in your story that the way changelings feed upon ponies leaves no permament damage. Even if it was hurting the ponies, she could have tried to find a way to help the changelings somehow.
In this story you simply made her a xenophobe tyrant, who lets her anger control herself and kill thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of innocent lifes. It seems like she simply killed them because she hated Chrysalis.
Do you know even realise how stupid that sentence is? Sorry if I sound harsh, but the German populace was FORCED(!) to go along with Hitler's decisions!! They had NO choice, NONE!
Same goes for the changelings, even if Chrysalis didn't force them and they did it out of their own free will, it was the hundreds of years of propaganda.
Think about it, the Allied's propaganda drove the soldiers to hate and massacre the German populace, so how would it be to annihilate America because they attacked helpless civils? Would that be okay as well? I mean, America is - like the changelings from your point of view - a gigantic threat to everyone who isn't on their side; they have a gigantic military force and dozens of nuclear warheads, able to destroy the entire planet.
3917069
I see we will be unable to come to an understanding. We disagree on core beliefs, so shall we end this amicably?
I mean don't get me wrong, from a technical standpoint the story is well enough written but...
That ending? The morality? Genocide? That's old testament level of nasty, the sort of nasty I've only ever seen in the hellish depths of TCB until now. I feel once again like Celestia's been out right defiled.
Edit: Who the heck put this in the 'Changelings Need Love to' group!? The name of the group isn't a reference to their dietary needs.
so that's why we haven't seen any changling activity lately
I don't like idea of all powerfull Celestia. But I like how she just choose "the ease way", but sadly what I don't like in this fic is that she don't have any consequences after this. If she wasn't all powefull and went there with army there could be some consequences later because of morality of this decision, rumors etc.
Personally, I'd have ended the story with Celestia walking back to Canterlot and not letting anyone else, including Luna, know what she'd done.
3927293 That was one of the many ending scenarios that I wrote out before I came to the final version, but in the end I came to the in-story headcanon that both Luna and Celestia have done things like this in the past. That's just me, though
Mixed feelings on this. I like that Celestia is shown to be powerful. I like that she's shown to be calm and collected. But...I dislike the resolution. I would have preferred is she'd not only been powerful and in control, but also sufficiently wise and benevolent to reach a more harmonious solution. I realize that's not the story you were writing. And the story you did write is effective at what it sets out to do. But I might have liked it more had you been writing a different story. And from the number of dislikes, I think a lot of others felt the same.
As for the story you did write rather than the story I might have wanted you to write, I do have some additional complaints. Celestia claiming to be a monster didn't sit well with me. I see someone else pointed that out. But much worse than Celestia openly claiming to be a monster is Luna at the end writing off the whole thing as something they're "forced" to do. That statements robs them even of what little dignity and elegance they might otherwise have had. It's one thing to say "this is monstrous, but I will become a monster in order to keep my little ponies safe." It's something else entirely to say "oh, well...we have no choice. It's not out fault. We're compelled by circumstance to do this, and woe is us we'd rather not, but it's not up to us. Oh well." That's weak. And you diminish the dignity of their choices by by having them look at it this way.
Finally, the second to last paragraph...I had to read it a couple times. On first reading I thought it was Luna who was putting on chitin and scales, and I thought it was supposed to be a reference to Nightmare Moon. The idea being that "we immortals sometimes we do things that seem monstrous, but we are not bound by the rules of mortals." There's room for something to be done with that. But after re-reading it, I think that's not what you intended at all. Apparently it was Celestia? So...what, Celestia is actually a changeling? If that's what you intended, that introduces all sorts of questions. How did Chrysalis not know? Why did Celestia not recognize when Cadence was replaced? Why wasn't Celestia-ling more sympathetic to the starving changelings? Why didn't she replace Chrysalis rather than destroy the hive? Etc.
If that's really what you were going for, then presumably Celestia, Luna and Chrysalis are all changeling queens, and at some point Celestia and Luna decided to give up their hive, and hive-life in general and go rule ponies and hoard all the love for themselves, having only pony subjects rather than changeling subjects. That's a valid story...but it comes completely out of left left at the end and doesn't get developed at all. So much so that reading through the comments, I get the impression that very few of your readers even realized that's what was going on, and instead thought that this is simply a "get back at the changelings" fic. That single sentence about her coat becoming chitin completely reframes the entire story, and I'm not certain it does so in a good way. Is it about Celestia protectign her ponies, or is it about her genociding her own people because a rival Queen was threatening her personal position? If she's a changeling, the second interpretation makes just as much sense.
I won't say this is a bad story. It...isn't. It's well written. It has some interesting ideas. And it's always pleasing to see Celestia unbothered in the face of danger and casually seize victory. But there are conceptual choices here, choices that seem to be have been made very deliberately...that ultimately leave me feeling dissatisfied. And looking at the likes to dislikes ratio, I think a lot of other readers feel the same way.
3936032
First off, thank you for listing off the problems you had with it. I much prefer that to just downvoting it and moving on. I want to know why people don't like it.
Responses:
The meaning was actually supposed to be in line with the first one, so I might have to reword her line a bit.
And this:
'multitude of coat colors' are the ponies in the streets. That's a bit of clumsy wording on my bit. It is Celestia seeing her ponies, the ones enjoying peace and prosperity, being replaced by the images of those she's killed. Sort of a guilt-induced traumatic flashback. Only one of the things she sees, chitin, actually refers to the Changelings. The other two allude to races she's destroyed in the past for similar crimes. Definitely going to reword that for clarity. I wonder how many people walked away thinking Celestia was a hairy, scaly Changeling?
3936474
...yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that from the way it was phrased.
Certainly. After thinking about it some more, now that you've clarified that Celestia was not a changeling in this story, there's another thing I'd like to point out:
Early on you make a point of establishing that the changeling hive is cold. So much so that even the Queen is wearing blankets. i think you intended this to provide some sort of contrast for later when Celestia incinerates the place. But the way it comes across...if even the Queen is huddled up in blankets, what must life be like for the average drone? The first half dozen paragraphs of the story discuss how rare it is for them to be well fed. Again, even the Queen is basking in the "rare sensation" of being full.
You very strongly set up the changelings as an underdog, struggling to survive. You even explicitly state that their present situation is not entirely a result of the Canterlot invasion:
So it's not even karmic justice. They're not starving because they did bad things. They did bad things because they were starving. Even before they attacked Canterlot they were starving, and now it's just worse, and they're all cold and hungry and struggling to survive. And yet despite all that you establish that they are going out of their way to minimize their effect on ponies. They kidnap Berry Punch, yes, but they return her safely. And, since Celestia incinerates the entire hive, presumably we can assume that there were no ponies in harvesting pods anywhere.
They're not hurting ponies. They're not putting them in pods. And the ponies they do feed from they return safely. Yet, nevertheless you have Celestia committing genocide on the entire hive. It's difficult to justify this as protecting her ponies. If you want to say Celestia is a monster...ok, you kind of have that going on, but you're not dressing her up as a monster. For the majority of the story, portraying her as calm, collected, cordial and polite.
There are people who like Celestia. Me, personally I like her. I like seeing her portrayed as wise and benevolent. I like seeing her portrayed as a powerful goddess. Then there are people who dislike her. Look at the whole anti-conversion bureau phenomenon where she's generally portrayed as an evil, whiny hypocrite who fails at most everything she attempts.
The way you're portraying her is unsatisfying for both groups. Your Celestia is elegant, polite, powerful...and apparently also an unrepentant psychopath who commits genocide against cold and starving creatures who are going out of their way to not hurt ponies. That's "monstrous" but you're not dressing her up as a monster. Your Celestia here isn't an Anti-Hero, she's not an Anti-villain, she's not a Noble Demon, she's not a Monster...I'm not really she what she is.
What were you intending us to think and feel about her?
If your intent was for us to think her a monster, she doesn't come across as a monster so much as she comes across as a wise and benevolent, unflappable and likable Celestia who then suddenly genocides starving changelings for reasons that aren't adequately set up.
If your intent was for us to sympathize with her as someone who is "forced by circumstances" to do something horrible...she' doesn't really come across that way either, because you go to such extreme effort to establish that the changelings are the underdogs here and that they're going out of their way to minimize their effect on ponies.
If your intent was to portray her as a jaded and Unfettered immortal who has exterminated lots of races to further her cause, and just doesn't care anymore, that wasn't adequately set up and there are lots of implications to the contrary. If she was simply going to the hive to kill changelings and be done with them, what was she even doing for the first half of the story? Toying with them?
If your intent was to portray her as well intentioned, but wracked with the horrible guilt of her choices...she doesn't really come across like that either. There's no setup for that, there's no brooding, and she writes off of the whole affair way too casually. That line at the end about "the regret known only to immortals" is way too little way too late for it to come across as anything besides an afterthought.
What was it you intended us to feel?
Personally I went through most of the story expecting a peaceful resolution with an omnibenevolent Celestia Now, again...I have my own biases. I like seeing that Celestia. But that was the story you seemed to be setting up through the first two thirds of the story. If you'd portrayed her as an avenging angel on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge instead, that would have completely valid. But you didn't really do either of those things.
Again, this is not a bad story...but...I think there's some crucial characterization and information that isn't made clear and the end result feels weak.
3938873
Afraid that wasn't meant to come across as the norm. Its an emergency measure because, if ponies start turning up with the harmful effects of normal feeding, it would draw the attention of the guard. Instead of drinking dry like they would under ideal circumstances, they're basically 'skimming' their victims. That's why Berry Punch went only to Chrysalis.
Say the Changelings are a child stealing drinks from Dad's liquor cabinet. They want to remain undetected, so every time they drink some they replace the same amount with water. They want to remain undetected, so they can only take small sips at a time. In order to maximize their intake, they spread their efforts around. Conflicting with their attempts to spread the source is the fact that their father watches his bottles closely, so they're limited to sneaking from the ones he pays the least attention to, the bottles on the edges and in the back. The problem here is every time they take a drink and replace it with water, the bottle becomes more diluted and the next drink is less satisfying. This continues until their father catches on or the bottle becomes diluted to the point of being essentially worthless.
Eventually, the child is faced with one of three prospects; continuing the gradual process on increasingly valuable bottles and hoping father doesn't catch on(which he will eventually), stealing an entire bottle and hoping he doesn't notice the single disappearance, or stealing them wholesale and facing the wrath of the father.
For the Changelings, option 1 will leave them increasingly weakened as the starvation rations gradually degrade their already limited ability to fight the ponies while still presenting danger of discovery and subsequent battle. Option 2 compromises risk vs reward as better nutrition increases their odds but nearly guarantees a fight with their long-term infiltrators compromised by the invasion hampering their ability to replace ponies wholesale for complete drainage. Option 3 is their best option, because though it guarantees a fight, it leaves them in the best position possible. Chrysalis in this story is pursing Option 3 while sustaining her hive on option 1, and even then they are still on a not-so-slow path to starvation and death. Chrysalis is left literally no choice; her subjects are starving and they need food now. The ponies like Berry Punch are simply slowing the inevitable.
In this, I tried to insinuate that Celestia is almost in denial about what she's going to do. When she flies across the Badlands, she knows what she has to do. She knows that Chrysalis is living in an impossible situation, forced to choose between a war and extinction. But she also knows that, in order for the Changelings to survive in any meaningful numbers, her ponies would have to suffer(not die, suffer) and that is the single thing she cannot allow. In her mind, she understands what she's doing is selfish and wrong. She understands the Changelings are just as alive as her ponies, but she chooses to do it anyway because they are her ponies. That is why she claims to be a monster. She understands there are other options and compromises, but all of them would necessarily have to contain some manner of suffering on the part of her citizens in order for the Changelings to live. But she still has her humanity(equinity?) that tells her what you're doing is wrong. They deserve to live just as much as your ponies. The worst kind of monster is the one who absolutely understands that what they are doing is irredeemably reprehensible, see the stairs that lead to the ground, and step off the ledge anyway. Celestia isn't making an impossible choice; she's choosing to choose.
This was my general line of thinking: In my mind, during the Holocaust the worst people weren't the ones ordering the executions and the gas chambers. Those people have always and will always exist at the fringes of society. their moral compasses are so dysfunctional that they are essentially write-offs, the kind of people who should be constantly monitored by mental health professionals and possibly medicated. The kind of people who kill a child to 'see what it was like.' No, the worst monsters are the ones who open the gas line on the folks crammed in the shower, or hold down the trigger with their eyes closed while they gun down a line of men, women, and children in striped pajamas. The ones who hold in their hand the power to say 'no, I will not be a part of this. I may not have the power to stop this, but I will not help it continue' and then don't. There was a massive level of social pressure in Germany that led to that, but in Celestia's mind its not social pressure but the desire to protect that drives her. She's the mother who wraps their kid in bubble wrap on steroids, except now she's putting spike strips in the road out front to keep her kid from getting run over, maybe.
Notice, Celestia acts polite until the point when Chrysalis explicitly states she's going to attack Equestria again. After that, the shift is subtle, but Celestia is clearly trying to separate 'her Equestria' from 'Chrysalis's Changelings'. Its a mental defense she has developed to protect her sanity, like how propagandists try to dehumanize the enemy before sending soldiers into battle. "It's okay to kill them, they're only Japs. They bombed Pearl Harbor!" "Its okay for me to kill them, they're only Changelings. They invaded Canterlot!" But the soldiers see the men on the other side of their rifles die, and Celestia watches the Changelings burn. The soldier thinks "That German looked like my neighbor Harry. He was a person, with a mother and a father. And I killed him." Celestia thinks "That Changeling could have been Twilight, or Luna. And I killed them all."
So Celestia builds a wall, as high and thick as she can make it. She puts hers on one side, them on the other, and doesn't look over the top. She makes hers as peaceful and beautiful and happy as she can, and doesn't think about the ashes on the other side of the bricks. But sometimes, at night when her ponies have gone to bed and her duties for the day are done, the wind carries across the wall and the screams come back. Celestia isn't just burning her enemies, she's burning herself with them. Bit by bit, she becomes less each time.
Before Chrysalis mentions the attack, Celestia talks about her family and Chrysalis in the same conversation without divide, asking what blend of tea she likes as she would a friendly monarch or a visiting dignitary. She speaks as if they are part of the same group, perhaps even friends.
Its light, polite conversation. As soon Chrysalis mentions the future attack, Celestia shifts and starts putting distance between them. Chrysalis becomes demarcated as 'the enemy' and lists the charges against her(at this point it truly becomes 'Celestia against Chrysalis' as opposed to 'Celestia and Chrysalis')
“Now, Queen Chrysalis, that’s no way to treat a visiting head of state,”
Now its Queen Chrysalis, the Changeling Ruler and the one who invaded my nation. This marks the first time Celestia even addresses her as 'Queen Chrysalis.'
Here, Celestia is subconsciously almost begging Chrysalis to back down, to admit she should seek other alternatives besides Equestria's subjugation. However, because of the nature of her position, Chrysalis is stuck. If anyone is a victim of circumstance, it is clearly Chrysalis.
Again, why Celestia thinks she's a monster is she isn't jaded. She still cares and still feels every single drop of blood on her hooves. She wishes there was another way for the Changelings, but there isn't. Their food source is equine emotion. They are the very definition of parasites; they can only survive by harming their host body. Sure, a single tick is not a that much of a big deal. But the more there are, the more they suck and the more damage they cause, and there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of Changelings.
That's the whole point here, really. Its not 'forced by circumstances.' Its refusing compromise out of overbearing motherly feelings. Celestia is a mama bear that understands the mountain lion has to eat like everything else, but its not going to be eating my babies.
In the end, lot of what I hoped to come off as 'subtle' instead turned out to be 'not actually present', and I agree with almost all of your criticism. As the writer it's my responsibility to make sure the reader is able to extract all this information on his/her own, and I didn't do that here.
Ohhh...dark.
*clap clap clap*
I look at the views, and the like/dislike ratio, and I am sad to see so many dislikes.
It is funny, ponies are supposed to be human (in a sense), and they behave like them, as in they are sentient.
To have a rule like Celestia, a thousand plus years under her belt, you have to be Machiavellian at times. If Celestia is required, for harmony to be kept, that is she raises both the sun and moon, then she is needed for survival. Controlling the sun and the amount of light literally controls the entire food chain. You have to do what is necessary to stay in power and keep order. I think Celestia sees herself as a monster, even if we agree with her or not. She sent her sister to the moon (although she had to), and kept Discord in stone for a 1000 years WHEN he could think for himself. That is being unable to move or do anything but have your mind wander.
Changelings as a whole present a massive threat to all world. If they feed the way they do, that is a dangerous threat. You can't let that exist when you run a nation.
I like this story, I think it takes a more realistic approach on how a ruler would act in this situation. I wish this story had more likes, because you show how much of a threat of changelings as a whole. Celestia would not be a good ruler if she let a threat like this persist.
I like this story, and I hope the dislikes don't bring you down from writing.
Best of luck,
Foxy Kimchi
Comment deleter.
3984781
Guilty. It was unintelligible and throwing around nazi accusations like confetti at a Pinkie Pie Party. I make no apologies.
Acceptable:
Your opinion's logic train could be used as a holocaust justification if you believe that the ruler's responsibility supersedes morality.
Unacceptable: YOUR A HOLOCAUST SUPPORTER NAZI = CELESTIA SS=ROYAL GRUADS
This story is awesome. Fav and like.
Well, you know what they say about the omelettes and the eggs. I don't understand why everyone is immediately calling Celestia a nazi here, if anything it is more similar to the Ukrainian famine under Stalin than the Holocaust.
3984792
What do call person think genocide is how normal people act.
He said genocide is fine and dandy for give rid of problems.
That he just said.
"genocide is never justified also never the answer" that all i have said
3984923
Okay, I'm drawing the line. We're done here. I'm tired of cluttering the comment section of this story with Holocaust accusations. Nobody here thinks genocide is okay.I was never trying to say genocide is okay with this story(the opposite, in fact) but the point is so far out the window that I can't even see it in the rear view mirror.
Disliked by democracy.
Your best option for now : just keep write entanglement. I'm waiting for it.
Holy shit. Why haven't the Elements of Harmony just incinerated Celestia by proximity by now? Same question with Luna, really.
3984852
So... just as bad as Nazis then.
Hmmm,
I am just going to throw my thoughts on this a little more.
I feel the point of this story is a what if. What if Celestia and Luna were much more Machiavellian in their rule. It is a hypothetical question. It is suppose to make you think of a situation. It is not like Celestia and Luna are this from the show. It is just a scenario.
To me, it makes me think. From the outside, Equestria looks a like a great place to live for the ponies. It makes me wonder, what if Celestia and Luna did drastic measures to make Equestria so great for ponies.
Also, it makes me think about the changelings again. Here we have an entire race that feeds literally by a parasitic means. They have to feed on other host, hurting them in the process. So the question arises, what does Equestria do with them?
So it gets you thinking, what would you do in this situation? You don't have to agree with Celestia and Luna. You can say "But there is a better way!"
And there probably is. I feel the story itself tells that Celestia and Luna are wrong in this case. I mean, Celestia and Luna admit that they monster deep down. The story is not even trying to paint them in the right light. But rather a more dark, cynical way. It is something to make you think.
I don't know why people dislike this story. It is a story, it is just showing a hypothetical scenario that makes us think. I don't think it is pushing anything. It just don't feel calling people names here is appropriate.
Thats my two cents.
3986817
This. Thank God finally. I'll take your two cents and give you a dollar in change
3985787
Yeah, Foxy just this idea is okay.
If Element of Harmony Destroy Celestia right now, by it make author that like GRIMDERP.
No, Foxy this Grimderp like Warhammer 40k GRIMDERP
3986817
Ditto. I get that Tyrantlestia is unpopular, but wow. I've never seen this much backlash. Maybe it's just that the story did such a good job of humanizing Chrysalis before the twist. Too good a job. I dunno.
Anyway, have a thumbs up from me.
3986748
Have you been following me? Your tactless insult of the victims of the Holocaust does not really help your standing in my book.
3990997
lel whut
I didn't say anything about Holocaust victims.
3991392
Here you denied the singularity of the Holocaust by accusing the Bolsheviks of being just as bad as the Nazis.
3993298
I didn't say the Nazis were any less bad. I just said that whoever decided to fuck Ukraine was just as bad as the Nazis.
3993347
Aha, so did the Soviet Union meticulously categorize their population based on racial qualities with members of each race receiving drastically different treatment up to organized mass murder in specifically created facilities? Did the Bolshevist ideology denounce Ukrainians as sub-humans that secretly rule the world via a myriad of conspiracies and thus have to be eradicated wholesome if there is to be any hope for a superior race like the Russian to achieve their rightful place?
3993484
No, but that didn't stop them from starving and shooting everyone they didn't like.
Was a good one pager, most out there rush the events of the plot but this one had a great pace.Along with that it brings to light that ruling isn't as easy or "sunshine and rainbows" as most fantasize it to be. Nothing comes free, peace and happiness especially. After all if you think about it if Celestia and Luna were as soft as the actual series showed them to be then imagine the griffon wars, that of NMM battle and banishment (you seriously didn't think it was just the princesses fighting? each had an army). Now back to the story, If the Queen had been more welcoming such as immediately giving Celestia a better place than a cell and had somewhat attempted a more sensible conversation, things might of been a bit different instead of Chrsalis treated her like a pest and even openly admitted she still wanted conquest... as Bronzdragon said.
This story is an interesting and very well written hypothetical interpretation of Celestia. I can't see it being canonical but it's a great "what if?" piece.
Honestly, this is valid and valuable literature, in that it presents us with a lot of think about. I don't understand all the downvotes, other than maybe a lot of people coming from a mindset of "I have a superficial dislike of the premise and I'm too lazy to do any deeper thinking about the questions this brings up, so I'm going to trash this even though it's good writing".
Chrysalis is probably some self proclaimed leader that fooled young changlings to folow her. She doesn't have hive or kingdom. We could see in the comics that she didn't return home because she doesnt have any. Changelings probably live in small families scattered throughout the whole planet.
5010574 You are in the extreme minority in having that opinion of Changeling structure, and I'm curious if you have any evidence for what you base your view on Changeling culture
A good story that shows to just how far Celestia would go to protect her people. Would she send armys to dig the Changelings out of there holes? Would she assassinate the Changeling Queen for her deeds? Would she forgive? No, this shows Celestia is willing to kill not just the individual, but an entire group of Changelings to protect her Ponys. Kind of doubt there the entire species though, there would probably be more hives out there or even a few returning Chrysalisis last meal to Ponyville.
This is a curious story. Not really for how there's controversy and whatnot. But for how it's very similar to two or three other stories, and written better, but seems to have gotten a lot more negativity. It's curious. The primary different that I can tell is that Celestia admits that she's a monster.
Well... I really don't like this. I really, really don't like this. I'm not going to downvote it, because it's not a bad story, and I honestly don't believe it deserves the downvote to upvote ratio it currently has.
I just... It feels more dark for the sake of being dark, and flies in the face of everything we -think- we know of Celestia's character. You can argue that there's a lot to her that we couldn't possibly know given how long she's lived and the fact that she's as close to a living goddess as you're ever going to get, but I hold true to my personal belief that I just can't see it.
Also, somebody from the show who's name I forget tweeted that the changelings definitely weren't killed, so fuck yeah for this being a children's show - I can forget about all the depressing stories which make characters I like dead :P
This premise had potential. Your portrayal of characters and setting is sufficient to carry the plot without ambiguity. Your commitment to a consistent interpretation of the canon material is admirable. Also your grammar was correct. Two of your other stories are even on my "enjoyed" list, so I went into this with some reasonable expectations.
However...
Your portrayal of Celestia here is like one of the sketches sold at a traveling carnival. There's a familiar quality to it at a glance, but when the first moment of novelty passes you're left looking at a caricature that falls short of anything but passing resemblance.
The entire climax feels cheap and hollow, lacking any pretense of conflict and devoid of uncertainty. While I appreciate the honesty of your description, the story itself feels like an attempt to live up to that introduction in the most expedient, and consequently trivial, route possible.
The final scene feels tacked on, with the shift in perspective cutting out any meaningful weight that the conflict had. In its place, you've pasted a frankly boring and formulaic depiction of mundane behavior at odds to the dialogue right before it. The finale is both painfully obvious and numbingly overdone.
Researching story structures might help you move on from juvenile power fantasies of overblown violence to more mature, hopefully more palatable, narratives.
Edit: and then I noticed the other comments, the downvote ratio, and the age.
Sorry for beating the dead horse, as it were.