"Princess Celestia Hates Tea," thoughts on a sequel. · 9:54am Sep 15th, 2014
No secret whatsoever: the number one reason people hate this story is the flippin' ending.
It's not the number one reason I hate this story, but it's certainly up there. Those of you who have gone on to read "A Short Story by Twilight Sparkle" have doubtless perceived the autobiographical inspiration in Twilight's experience, particularly this part:
...the whole ending felt shockingly rushed and weak, because, frankly, I was so darn tired of writing it by that point I couldn't see straight. I had testily sworn to myself that I would not endure another morning with that stupid "Tea" story hanging over my head...
...which is, of course, all true of me. That said, it's not like another day of writing it would have "fixed" the ending, either. It's been like two years now (insert shocked-dismay emoticon) and I have yet to come up with a "better" ending that feels right.
So. Message received, from like hundreds of you. You hate the ending. I get it. I hate it too. It's too late to edit the original story, but if it had a sequel, what do you most want to see in it? What, specifically, chafes your gizzard about how this story closes? The general lack of all-around happy? That Twilight doesn't get her just desserts for an entire evening of torturing Celestia with the memory spell? That, in a world where you can literally turn birds into oranges, that some kind of solution wasn't forced using unicorn magic? What?
Please note that the characters will remain kind of panicky and stupid, so if the fact that the characters are panicky and stupid is your major beef, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to accommodate a fix of that nature.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed both stories exactly as written.
"Princess Celestia Hates Tea" is a dark comedy that doesn't overstay its welcome. Sometimes, simplicity is best. "Twilight Sparkle Writes a Short Story" captures the essence of Twilight's hero-worship of Celestia in a way I hadn't really considered. Any sequel to the former would be drastically different because of the latter.
If there had been no "Short Story," perhaps Celestia's misadventures could continue, but I think you'd have to strike out in a new direction. "Princess Luna Has A Millennium of Junk Mail," or somesuch.
Couldn't the ending have had the cruelty rather easily removed by simply having Celestia cancel out Twilight's spell and just pretend to experience her tea-drinking memories? This is just my opinion, but that was my primary issue with the ending. The rest of the story was delightfully comedic, and then princess celestia has to re-experience a thousand years of tea drinking, and it's just so ridiculously horrible it's a bit of a downer. If Celestia agreed to it, and then simply cancelled out twilight's spell while thinking "well, that was a bad day", I feel like the comedy is preserved without unnecessary torture that ruins the mood.
So if you do a sequel, try not to sentence sapient beings to cruel and unusual punishments.
I think it should have ended with Celestia taking up the identity of Mare Do Well to destroy all tea in Equestria in a very odd form of vigilantism.
Of course then Luna would probably become the Batmare to stop her.
But to be serious, I think that what makes the ending unsatisfying is that Celestia loses. If the entire thing wasn't so petty (that might not be the best word, but I can't think of a better one right now), the story might be quite a tragedy. But I'm not sure how I might have ended it differently.
I feel kind of sorry for Celestia, since all she got out of the whole thing was the unintentional torture by her own faithful student. I wouldn't mind if the sequel ended with her finally managing to escape the clutches of tea, and maybe punishing Twilight somehow. Not too harshly, something comedic. But that was what bugged me about the ending--it left Celestia in the same shitty situation as before, with only added stress for trying to escape it. Bit of a downer for a comedy story.
This came out of nowhere for me. I loved the ending, it was a hilarious way to end on the note of "her suffering continues." "Princess Celestia Hates Tea" is one of my favorite stories and the ending is a heavy part of why.
I can't say anything about your own dissatisfaction toward it, but maybe the lopsided review of it came about because only those that hated it felt the need to comment about it.
As for what I'd like to see in the sequel, I'd like to see Luna involved, maybe you can have her work to help Celestia, or against her.
Lord knows how long it's been since I've read it, so I am now inspired to go re-read it for the 5th or 6th time.
...Wait, wasn't there a scene with Pinkie Pie giving Celestia a bunch of special sugar she could secretly slip into her tea to override the horrid taste?
Or was that somepony else's one-shot spin-off?
Huh. I could've sworn that scene with Pinkie and the special sugar was the actual ending. Memory can be a funny thing sometimes.
If not, yeah, "Celestia is doomed to forever be tortured by the taste of tea" indeed is a downer ending.
Though really, the only thing it needs to fix it is to add that Pinkie-ending to the original story as an epilogue. Maybe flesh it out a little. *shrug*
. . .
Hm. I wonder what would've happened if Luna had entered Celestia's dreams the night after her experiencing the memory spell.
Of course, there could also be some backwards twist with Celestia being discorded and suddenly loving the stuff, and everypony, despite all evidence to the contrary, just assuming Celestia is perfectly fine, seeing how she still enjoys her tea.
I rather liked it's sort of meta-sequel, it made sense with it. Not sure I would like an actual sequel, however.
I... didn't mind the ending, myself.
Princess Celestia Hates Tea has a warm place in my heart though, so it might be nostalgia goggles talking. It was the first bit of ponyfiction I read on FiMFiction. And I might not be here now if it hadn't been a very positive experience.
Besides, it's not like every story has to have the happiest ending possible.
I felt like Twilight Sparkle Writes a Short Story did what it needed to do with the story, really.
I'm not sure how I would fix the story, given its farcical nature. It did what it was trying to do. Yeah, the ending was silly, but... well, how else would you end it?
Wha...? I have no idea why anyone would hate the ending, it was hilarious and fit perfectly with the underlying theme - that ponies had such a strong idea of Celestia and were so deeply in love with that idea that Celestia herself was basically trapped by it now. And that Celestia was so willing to sacrifice for the sake of her ponies that she allowed it in the end for the sake of their own comfort and stability. I wouldn't have you change a thing about it! "Short Story" was a great companion piece/coda/whatever, too. I'm not really sure how a sequel could possibly fit into these two stories without breaking stuff that I loved about them.
That said, I'm also fine with compartmentalizing. So if you do write a sequel I'm prepared to enjoy it. I liked the unofficial one JadeCriminal wrote, for example.
Personally, I like the story as it is, thanks to the existence of "Short Story." It's part of a package deal for me. Of course, my tastes aren't exactly the most discerning...
What 2456603 said.
I would much rather you didn't. Just mark 'Short Story' as the sequel and be done with it.
I've never actually read Princess Celestia Hates Tea.
Going to go with "People hated the ending?"
It was hilarious to me. I thought it was the final cherry on the top of the cake of Celestia's relationship with the horrid drink. The last "My world is pain, and Tea is the reason for it. I cannot hate it more."
Why I'd like to read the sequel if you made one? Because it's a sequel to a story I enjoyed? Because it would be hilarious? Enough said?
I loved the story, but the fact that things go back to status quo and Celestia keeps drinking tea always annoyed me a bit. It's so unsatisfying! If I were Celestia, after this story I would set into motion a great plan spanning hundreds of years to gradually get rid of tea. Start out by changing her daily schedule with fewer tea breaks, "discover" some new drink she likes better, don't hire a new tea lady when Mrs. Cozy dies, etc.. The plan finally ends almost a millennium later, with Celestia stomping the last tea plant to death.
I'm in the camp of people who liked the ending. Maybe just because I don't see it as that horrible. I mean, it's just a drink she dislikes. I'm sure Princess Celestia has had to put up with more horrible things than that in her millennia of life.
However, a couple of ideas pop into mind. You wrote this before the episode with Princess Luna dreamwalking was revealed. Maybe we find out that she knew about it all the time and her actions were to protect the tea-loving citizens? The sequel could be the same story from her perspective, with all sorts of wacky hijinks as Princess Luna tries to fix the situation behind-the-scenes.
Or more Princess Cadance. That's pretty much what I want in stories from you. Instead of a sequel, write a prequel where Princess Celestia and young Princess Cadance have a rare bonding moment over the secret that she hates tea. Then you can fast-forward to after the memory event where Princess Celestia has a visit to the Crystal Kingdom where she and Princess Cadance have a private commiseration get-together where they drink milkshakes or something instead of tea.
I'm going to be unhelpful and suggest you write a story about ponies being panicky and stupid over Luna liking coffee.
(If I were helpful, I'd say the ideas in 2456690 are cool and definitely worth looking into!)
...I liked the ending.
I liked the ending, but if you intend to make a sequel I'd like one starring Luna.
In all honesty, the "Short Story" follow-up dealt with any issues I had with the ending of the original. There was something just kind of overly cynical and depressing with the ending. As well as with what was being said about Twilight's character, in that she would rather do what is blacked out above (still don't know how to work the spoiler text) in order to make Celestia conform to expectations rather than adjust her own. (Yes, she's supposed to be innocently consumed by her own perfect vision of Celestia, but as the meta-sequel itself notes, she doesn't come off well at all. Everything comes about from Celestia trusting her with the secret... Twilight is the source of all suffering.)
I remember hoping that, in the end, the spell would be faked... Nothing so overly fairy tale-ish as rescuing Celestia from ever having to drink tea again, but just the realization that Twilight was giving Celestia a way to calm everyone down and fix the panic that Twilight had caused by "curing" her without actually doing anything. She'd still have to go on pretending to like tea for eternity, but there would be at least one pony in Twilight with whom she would never need to drink the stuff again. Just enough Friendship in there to make it seem warmer and fuzzier, rather than as blackly comedic as it was. Because the depressing part is not that she'd have to regularly imbibe an unpleasant beverage for the rest of her life, but that she could never be close enough to another pony to be herself in this small way... Even Twilight, whom she had faith and trust in, betrayed her in favor of her manufactured image.
But I realize that wasn't the kind of story it was, and separating those issues off and dealing with them in the more serious "Short Story by Twilight Sparkle" addressed them well enough, I thought.
If you do write a sequel in the style of the first, I guess the only advice I could give based on this is to offer at least some kind of bone at the end to soft-hearted readers like me. I don't mind watching the characters suffer, or continue to suffer... But at least let them have friendship in the end. It is magic, after all.
2456690 I'm of the same opinion as you, I'd liked the ending and I think a prequel with Celestia commiserating with Cadence would be kind of fun.
Going to repeat what I originally said: I do consider the ending the weak point of the story, ruining a lot of what it could be for me, if the story is taken alone. When considering A Short Story by Twilight Sparkle, though, all the negative aspects of the ending are disarmed, and the whole becomes fantastic.
(And I really didn't like that unofficial sequel with Pinkie Pie. It set all the Mary Sue alarms in my mind blaring.)
As for what the ending, taken alone, did wrong for me: unusual and cruel punishment on Celestia for something that is not her fault, and applied by Twilight nonetheless. I would revert it a bit: have Celestia reflect Twilight's spell so Twilight revives Celestia's tea drinking memories (and the disgust she felt), and then have both work together to find a way to undo the damage to Celestia's image. The punchline could be that, after experiencing a millennium of disgusting tea-drinking memories, Twilight discovers that she now hates the stuff in the clumsiest possible moment
I really don't feel it needs a sequel. Yes it's bittersweet and kind of a downer - but comedy runs on schadenfreude. And it seems like you already said everything else you wanted to say in A Short Story. If you find yourself inspired to write a sequel great, but no need to force it if its not there.
2456573 That's an unofficial sidestory/sequel by a different author.
I never had a problem with the ending. It shows just how much Celestia is willing to go through for the happiness of her ponies.
None the less I do like to consider the first comment for ch2 to be Twilights punishment, but it wouldn't really fit in the actual story.
When I first read the story I considered the idea of Celestia taking Twilight with her down memory lane. Maybe after she passed out from throwing up she would realize her mistake. But it's too late to change the story.
The dream walking stuff could be useful. Luna sees the torment her sister is going through and pulls Twilight into the dream too. The two beg forgiveness and agree to help her.
In the end it's your story and we're just along for the ride. I'd have gone for violence and fire right from the start and wouldn't have made something so good.
...would burning tea leaves be similar to drinking tea?
2456803 I agree with this wholeheartedly.
This doesn't answer your question, but I find it interesting that you've written not one, but two stories featuring twilight freaking out about stuff written about her and celestia on this site: Her own story (by you) in "A Short Story by Twilight Sparkle", and someone else's story (by Device Heretic) in "Heretical Fictions".
Skywriter Hates Princess Celestia Hates Tea
It is a great story. It ends on a note of wry humor. Boo hoo. Yes, the show would have ended it differently. This is not the show.
Maybe the Platonic Skywriter story would not end that way. I see their point; they come to pony because they want a particular kind of story. I just don't respect people who want a particular kind of story very much.
But if you write a sequel, or an alternate ending, I'll read it. I've done several alternate endings. No rule against it here. Hell, turn it into a choose-your-own-adventure.
Do a whole series of short stories which always end with Celestia doing something she hates because the ponies think she wants to and she doesn't want to hurt their feelings.
The worst part about this PCHT is the same as all of your stories: they end. I'm not suggesting that you leave stories incomplete; I'm suggesting that you write a story that is literally never-ending. Infinite Skywritery goodness, yay.
There are people who didn't like the ending? Huh, it takes all kinds I guess. Crazy, crazy kinds.
Eh? This is the first time I've heard of this. I thought the ending was one of the best parts of the whole story! Or maybe I'm just a sucker for dark comedy.
> "the number one reason people hate this story"
> 3,549 likes
> 53 dislikes
> RCL-featured
> Being turned into a comic
I think you're fine.
2456979
It would be one thing if I actually liked the ending myself, though. I agree that it should be different, whatever the stats say. I just can't figure out in what way it should be different, hence this post.
Personally, I think a good way to end it is to have Celestia able to escape the mind-rapey spell at the end, and then just continue on as 'normal' until she finds a way to escape the tea situation. Namely, finding another drink she loves more, which she can safely say is her new favorite. Say, coffee, or soda. Then another silly war breaks out because people are convinced the tea industry will collapse thanks to these upstarts, which it's going to.
2456996
Then I'm afraid I'm not going to be terribly useful in helping you find that alternative, because I'm with the it's-great-as-it-is crowd. The black humor of the status quo strikes me as a perfect capstone for the piece. It's very much like the musical number at the end of Monty Python's Life of Brian: as much as we root for the main character, they're up against the historical inevitability that the role they play in society is far bigger than themselves, so the best you can get without derailing the story completely is a dark laugh at the unfairness of it all.
Any solution that gets Celestia off of that hook undermines one of the core thematic strengths of the story.
2456813
Just want to give this a signal-boost! I absolutely agree with it.
2457065
Hm. So, for you, woulld a hypothetical sequel letting Celly off the hook cheapen the experience of the original even if the original were to remain intact and unchanged?
I enjoyed it, and whilst the ending wasn't ideal for Celestia, it was funny and straight to the point. But it might be nice to see Twilight get revenged upon.
2457120 I quite agree. After all, Celestia now has ETERNITY to drive that point home and set up something similar for the Princess of Magic.... and I imagine Discord would be all too happy to help with such a prank. Chocolate milk, anyone?
2456979
An upvote does not guarantee that the person enjoyed the ending as a standalone piece, though. I'm one of those that upvoted despite disliking the ending when the story is read by itself.
I upvoted the story mainly because of Twilight Sparkle Writes a Short Story; reading Princess Celestia Hates Tea as a fiction inside a fiction rendered innocuous the elements I disliked and reinforces the ones I enjoyed, and since both are from the same author I take the combination as the intended way to interpret the events.
Which, thinking about it, might make any further sequels have strange effects on how much I enjoy the original. Anything that, in my mind, undermines the applicability of Twilight Sparkle Writes a Short Story will likely end in myself disliking Princess Celestia Hates Tea (note: disliking does not equal downvoting).
Disclaimer: I rarely, if ever, enjoy tragedy. Even if it's dressed up as comedy and the stakes are low enough as to be innocuous.
If you didn't like your own ending I have a sneaking suspicion that you wrote a dark comedy without realizing it.
The fic is essentially laughing at Celestia's situation as she suffers through it, and I loved it even though Celestia is my favorite character.
Yeah, the supporting characters were all acting a little dumb but hell this even happens in the show all the time. people in this fandom take things a little too seriously and should just lighten up, these are cartoon horses were talking about here.
I actually didn't like Twilight writes a story because it just felt like you were trying to please all the people that didn't like the ending and any sequel you wrote would probably feel the same.
For what it's worth, I think it's fine to displease parts of your audience once in a while if the story calls for it. Obviously you're not going to please everybody. But then, you know this, and I think the real reason you're asking us is because you don't like the ending either. To that end, it's also OK to displease parts of your audience even if you are a portion of that part of the audience that is displeased. :)
Regarding the 1000 years of re-visited memories... it's actually a toss up for me whether I find that or the gob full of phoenix poop for Luna more disgusting. I suppose the former is probably far more unpleasant simply because the near-interminable nature of it. :/ But reading about the latter actually made me gag.
I am actually OK with the ending as it is, but it does feel a little irksome that in the end the central crisis (ie. Celestia is so trapped by her life that she can't be real with anyone-- not even her most trusted friend) is never satisfyingly resolved. I tend to like "happy endings" in which these kinds of conflicts get resolved in positive ways (even if you have to go through Hell to get there)-- and that's sort of one of the underlying themes in MLP:FiM that definitely is not present in this story (but that is there in, say, Philomeanie).
I would not recommend changing this story, but as a sequel... well, knowing you and your love for meta, maybe you could address the ponies' need to have everything be OK in the end? ;)
It was already too long for a oneshot based around such a simple idea and dragging the point out way too much.
Be glad you ended it there and leave dead dogs lie.
2456660
I like that "when ms. Cozy dies" is a completely non-sinister part of a plan. Just the idea that Celestia schemes around the death of a pony is actually really funny to me.
"This noble is really starting to bother me with his terrible proposals and general incompetence...whatever, he'll die in another forty, fifty years and then I'll never have to deal with his bullshit again."
I like the ending. It's a perfect mixture of horror and comedy and also ultimately shows us something Celestia's character. You can't please everyone but you pleased me.
2457113
Speaking only for myself, as an individual reader, I think it would.
Trying to abstract myself from that and speaking on general principle, that might be a good move. I might change my mind once I see how you handle it, because you're a damn good writer and have already shaped my headcanon in a lot of ways; I might just be wrong; or I might still dislike it but the benefits of a fixfic outweigh my opinion.
2457670
On second thought, 2457329 makes a good point. There's a lot of power in that theme but it does lead to the unresolved crisis he mentions, and that's something that feels like it could be addressed head-on and resolved, even if it comes down to overturning the original.
2456884
I thought "Celestia suffers for her ponies" was, like, a central theme here.