Book Club
Twilight huffed, her cheeks tinged pink. “So that’s why she obviously shouldn’t have chosen Cut Diamond. Honestly, this story is so contrived I don’t know why I’m taking it so seriously.” She put the book on the coffee table in front of her, glaring at it as if it had personally offended her. “It follows such a basic formula and the premise is so unoriginal.”
A giggle cut her off. “Oh, but it is so romantic, darling. Certainly, it was predictable, but that isn’t the point. It’s the warmth that fills your chest when Serenity finally realizes the one she loves and is able to do something about it.”
Twilight shook her head. “Still, she shouldn’t have chosen Cut Diamond when Gleaming Shield was right there and willing to give her life for her.” With a sigh, she shrugged. “I guess I didn’t feel the happiness that you did from it, because I just thought it was all wrong.”
“I thought it was rather nicely set up,” Rarity mused, mostly to herself.
Twilight couldn’t help responding. “At the beginning, you have Serenity and Gleaming Shield, setting off for the big city just so Serenity can make it big. Gleaming is already giving up so much for Serenity to do this, even if Serenity doesn’t know it.” She lightly tapped her hoof on the coffee table. “Gleaming stood by Serenity, even when Serenity thought she couldn’t make it onto the Bridleway Stage. Even when Serenity had no bits coming in, Gleaming supported her.” Twilight thrust a purple hoof toward Rarity, looking her friend in the eye. “Gleaming was there when those ponies told her she would never amount to anything, and it was Gleaming who was there when Serenity finally landed a lead role and everyone started celebrating her. It wasn’t until then that she was a blip on Cut’s radar.” Twilight’s hoof hit the coffee table harder than she intended, but the look of pure belief didn’t shift.
“Yes, but Cut didn’t have much reason to see her until then, did he? He had his company to run, and his dealings in the Capitol. Cut was there for her to help with the paparazzi.” Rarity cut her hooves through the air as she explained. “He was there whenever she needed something after they met. He has nothing but adoration for her in his heart.” Rarity smiled at Twilight, her eyes wide and ears turned forward, and brought her hoof to her own heart.
Twilight’s wings flared as she leaned toward Rarity. “He was so embarrassed by her, though. He insisted she learn how to properly fit in with the people in his circle, instead of letting her be who she was.” Her nose wrinkled as she spoke. “Gleaming would have never asked Serenity to not be herself.” Twilight pointed at herself, her ears pulled tight against her head as she did her best to make Rarity understand. "Gleaming liked that Serenity could quote any play she had ever read, or that she knew more about the history of theater than anypony else. She liked how Serenity would get so excited when they would watch plays. Instead, Cut Diamond wanted her to model herself after all the girls he had rejected. It’s ridiculous that she ended up with him.”
With a huff, Rarity turned her head slightly, though she still kept her gaze on Twilight. “That isn’t entirely true, darling.”
“It is, though! I mean, on page 394, even after she’s already chosen him, he chuckles and says ‘Yes, my love. We will have you acting like a proper mare in no time.’ What kind of pony says that sort of thing?”
Rarity flipped through her copy of the book, finding Twilight’s quote and scanning the scene. “Well, it’s so that she doesn’t end up embarrassing herself. She wants to learn how to blend more with the ponies she’s going to be around. She asked him to help her.”
“But he doesn’t like her difference, and she refuses to see that Gleaming Shield would never ask Serenity to change so she wouldn’t embarrass her. Gleaming cares about her, and would have helped her if given the chance.”
With a sigh, Rarity relented. “Ah, well, I don’t believe we’ll come to an agreement, it seems. Pity, I had hoped we would share an opinion.” Rarity placed her own book onto the coffee table. “At the very least, I had thought I would have my usual partners here to defend the romance.”
Twilight nodded in agreement. “It’s so strange. I know that sometimes a pony will miss our bimonthly meetings, but all four of them at once is weird. Especially when the map didn’t call any of them.” She sighed, looking around Rarity’s boutique. The store front also served as her living area, and as such, had a few poniquens displaying Rarity’s newest designs, thought this shop worked differently than the one in Canterlot, as the dresses here were all made to order.
Truthfully, it had been sometime since Twilight had taken in the décor of Rarity’s home. She was always making small changes here and there. During the last book club meeting two weeks ago, a small relaxation tool had been the centerpiece of the table. It had a small rake and two small stones that could be rearranged. This week a small vase of colorful flowers held the place of honor.
She looked back up at Rarity, who was staring at the books, though apparently not seeing them, as if she were lost in thought. Though her makeup was an impeccable as ever, and her deep purple mane curled to its usual perfection, the crease between her eyebrows was what held Twilight’s attention. As Rarity’s blue eyes continued to bore holes into the table, Twilight’s mind drifted.
Perhaps it was nothing, of course, but she had probably insulted Rarity when she called the book contrived. After all, romance was one of the things Rarity seemed to live for. Rarity knew Twilight wasn’t fond of that genre. That was the point of this book club, for everyone to read a book their friends liked and try new things. Pinkie’s pick had been westerns and Rainbow Dash, predictably, had been Daring Do. Applejack had announced her pick of a fantasy book last meeting, and Twilight had been dying to have everyone read the historical fiction she had picked.
They all had positive and negative things to say about the books. They weren’t inherently terrible, for the most part, even if some struggled to keep her interest. At least that hadn’t been a problem with this book, right? It wasn’t like a slam to Rarity herself, right? After all, it was obvious that Gleaming Shield had been in love with Serenity since the beginning of the book, and it wasn’t fair to Gleaming for her to just run of with Cut Diamond because he was a handsome colt who could say a few smooth words. Gleaming was intelligent and as fierce as any pony Twilight knew, and had proven that she would give her life for her love.
“Twilight!” Rarity’s voice abruptly pulled the purple mare out of her spiraling thoughts. She blinked and shook her head before meeting Rarity’s eyes again. “Darling, are you okay?”
She felt her cheeks heat once more, though this time it wasn’t from anger at the way the love triangle had been resolved. “Yes. I was just thinking about the book.”
Rarity giggled again, her smile doing more to calm Twilight’s fears than her own rationalizing had. “Would you like some tea? I was just going to make some for myself.”
“Oh, yes, thank you.” Twilight took a deep, calming breath as she watched Rarity walk away, her tail swishing slightly. With another deep breath, she closed her eyes. “You need to pull it together, Twilight,” she mumbled to herself. “You’ve already rationalized all of this. It’s never going to happen.”
After another deep breath, she stood and walked into the kitchen. “Upon further reflection, I suppose I can see why you think Cut Diamond is a good choice for Serenity to make.”
Rarity glanced over at her as she put the kettle on the stove. “Do you?” Her voice sounded hopeful as she fully turned to look at Twilight. "Because you seemed pretty adamant about it being Gleaming Shield.” Pulling a chair out, Rarity sat at the table. “I suppose we could ask our friends later what they thought of who she ended up with.”
“I can hear Pinkie now,” Twilight said, a smile forming on her lips.
“Why not both!” they said together.
Rarity giggled again. “Yes, that does seem to be her answer to all love triangles. Just put them all three together.”
The whistle on the kettle broke their conversation, and Rarity stood, getting the tea and cups down as she moved the kettle from the blind. “Oh, it appears I’m out of black tea, darling. Would you like white or green?”
“White, please.”
With a nod, Rarity prepared the cups and rejoined Twilight at the table. “I suppose it’s apparent, but do you know why I liked Cut Diamond the most?”
Twilight thought about it for a moment. He was a noble, and an arrogant one at that, but an astute business stallion, with enough bits to keep up with his rather large taste for the finer things in life. Twilight couldn’t think of a single thing she liked about him. “I don’t know. He’s a terrible pony.”
Rarity raised her eyebrows, a look of shock on her face. “You think he’s terrible?”
Twilight nodded as she picked up her teacup. “Yes. I can’t think of a single positive trait. From his constant manipulations of Serenity, especially in getting her to abandon Gleaming Shield in chapter twenty seven, to how he seems to look down on ponies he considers lesser than him. I am honestly confused as to why you would like somepony like him at all?”
Rarity’s voice came out lower than it had been. “Well, he had reminded me of myself.”
Twilight froze for a moment before lowering her cup. “You can’t be serious, Rarity. He was nothing like you.” Rarity avoided meeting Twilight’s eyes. “You are so much better than he is. Maybe he wasn’t as bad as I’m making him out to be, but there is no way you saw yourself in him.”
“He was rather ambitious. He wouldn’t take failure as an option. He worked hard for what he had, even if he was born into most of it. He knew what he wanted and he was doing everything he could to get it.” Rarity looked up again. “He is me, Twilight. Of course I wanted him to get the mare of his dreams, even if his parents didn’t like it. Even if Canterlot didn’t want him marrying some ‘no name’ pony. He followed his heart, just like I would have.”
A small sigh escaped Twilight’s mouth. “I guess I never thought of his character that way, or him being that deep. He was just another misrepresented noble who was standing in the way of what should have happened. I saw him as the villain, really, until I realized Serenity was actually considering him.” She shifted her wings as she met Rarity’s gaze.
“What do you think of me, Twilight?” Rarity asked softly.
The question caught Twilight off guard. Her mouth dropped in surprise. She caught herself quickly, however. “I-Rarity, you’re great. Forgetting all the stuff that we’ve done for Equestria, you are always there to help however you can. You love to make everything beautiful, just because it should be.” She pointed towards the out-of-sight display’s in Rarity’s living room. “You’re driven, yes, but you don’t let that get in the way of the ponies you care about. Usually. Well, half the time.” Twilight put her face in her hooves. “I don’t think you’re a terrible pony, Rarity. I could never think that about you.”
Silence settled around them. Twilight could hear the ticking of the clock on the wall, and she counted with the seconds. Rarity didn’t make a sound. She didn’t touch her tea, she didn’t shift in her seat. Twilight wasn’t sure she was even breathing.
After thirty seconds, Twilight looked up. “I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings.” She looked at Rarity, trying to get some read on her friends unusually inexpressive face. “Please say something.”
It took another moment, but Rarity sighed. “Do you know why our friends aren’t here today, Twilight?”
Unsure of where the conversation was going, but not wanting to stick her hoof in her mouth again, Twilight nodded. “Applejack had farm work, Pinkie was babysitting, Dash had some kind of meeting, and Angel is sick. Why?”
“None of that is true.”
Twilight blinked. “What? So they just didn’t want to come?”
“No, I asked them not to come. I wanted to talk about this with you. I was certain you would—“ Rarity stopped and took a deep breath. “I thought you would see the book, and the reason I picked it. I had hoped you would.”
Twilight scrambled through her thoughts, going through everything she remembered about the book, trying to piece together what Rarity was saying. Slowly, she shook her head. “I’m sorry.” Rarity looked to be on the verge of tears. “I don’t understand why it’s so important that I share your view on Cut Diamond.”
“Why did you want her to be with Gleaming Shield, Twilight?”
“Serenity just belongs with her. They’re best friends already. Gleaming Shield didn’t have any real training, but when things got tough, she was right there for Serenity, ready to make the ultimate sacrifice.” Twilight looked right at Rarity, her words coming out faster and faster. “Gleaming had been in love with her for a long time, from before she gathered the attention of Bridleway, from before ponies wanted her because of what she was, not who she was. Because I can’t think of any reason that Serenity wouldn’t love you.” Rarity’s eyes widened as Twilight scrambled to cover her slip. “I mean, Gleaming Shield. I can’t see why she wouldn’t love Gleaming Shield.” For the third time that day, she felt her cheeks heat up.
Again, they sat in silence, staring at each other. Rarity was faintly blushing as she looked at Twilight. Slowly, Rarity stood and walked into the living room, and after a beat, Twilight followed, unsure of what her friend was doing. When she made it to the living room, Rarity was holding the book and smiling. “I think,” she said, not looking away from the book as Twilight approached, “that we both have the same reason for picking our characters.”
Rarity looked up into Twilight’s confused face with a small smile. “Tell me, you saw yourself as the Serenity, didn’t you?”
Twilight cleared her throat and nodded. “I did,” she said.
“And you saw me as Gleaming Shield.”
Twilight’s heart thumped against her ribs as she nodded again, not trusting herself to speak this time.
Rarity’s smile widened into a grin. “Oh, darling, I saw you as her as well. That’s why I was so adamant about Cut being with her.”
Twilight blinked as she worked out what Rarity had said, not that it took long. She smiled, meeting Rarity’s eyes. “Really?” She stepped forward, her wings already slowly spreading as she got closer to the white unicorn. “You like me? Like that?”
Rarity didn’t answer. Instead, she watched as Twilight stepped closer, until they were close enough to touch. She giggled, then, putting her hoof on Twilight’s face. In what felt like forever and no time at all, she had closed the space between their faces and pressed her lips to Twilight’s. Twilight’s wings reacted nearly instantly, reaching around and covering Rarity’s back, pulling her closer to Twilight.
This kiss wasn’t like the ones in the book. Their teeth clashed. They kept bumping noses. There was a lot of giggling and breaking apart to look at each other. Finally, Rarity pulled back and took a few steps away. She cleared her throat, her eyes sparkling as she looked at Twilight, giggling again. “I suppose we should go on a proper date. Seeing as it’s nearly dinner time, I think now would be appropriate.”
Twilight smiled. “Yeah, now’s great,” she said, a bit breathlessly.
As she and Rarity walked out the door, the bushes near them rustled. Twilight looked at Rarity, who looked at her. Twilight rolled her eyes and sent her magic into the bush, levitating four grown mares. “Spying is not nice.”
“Oh my,” Fluttershy said, looking at Rarity and Twilight. “We we’re really spying. You see, we came over to see how it was going, but you were both in the kitchen.”
“Yeah, and when Rarity came into the living room, I grabbed everyone and pulled them into the bush,” Pinkie added, a wide grin on her face.
Applejack smiled. “We’re just glad to see you both finally tell each other how you’ve been feeling. I was close to losing my bet.”
“You bet on us?” Rarity said, her hoof flying to her chest.
With her hooves crossed in front of her chest, Rainbow Dash laughed. “It wasn’t a real bet. More like everyone guess on when you two would finally just get it over with.”
“You were kind of obvious,” Fluttershy said, looking toward the ground. “We’re sorry for invading your privacy.”
With a smile, Twilight lowered the four mares to the ground. “Apology accepted. Now, if you don’t mind, we were just going to dinner.”
“Oh, can I come?” Pinkie said, hoping to catch up with the couple. “I’m starving.”
Applejack chuckled as she pulled Pinkie back. “I think they’re going on a date, sugarcube. Let ‘em go on their own. The four of us can go grab a bite somewhere.”
“Okey dokey lokey.” Pinkie grinned. “How about a hayburger?”
Twilight chuckled as she and Rarity walked through Ponyville. “So, you asked them all to not be there so you could tell me you liked me?”
Rarity smiled. “I did. I’d planned it perfectly. We would both see how wonderful it was that she ended up with Cut Diamond, and with that bond built, I could explain exactly why I liked it.”
Twilight smiled and walked closer to Rarity, brushing their coats together. “Well, it worked in the end.” She looked over at Rarity, biting her lip. “Besides, those characters don’t really fit either of us very well.”
With a giggle, Rarity nodded. “Oh, I know. The things those characters say.” She leaned up and nuzzled Twilight. “Maybe I’ll be lovesick enough to say those to you soon.”
With a wrinkled nose, Twilight shook her head. “You know, I’m really glad you picked that book. I would have never told you I liked you otherwise.”
“Hmm, yes. Twilight?”
“Yeah?”
“Serenity still made the right choice with Cut Diamond. Beyond our projections.”
Twilight groaned. “No, she didn’t.”
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A well written fic from you.
I'm not sure how much criticism you're looking for here. I guess I'll preface this by saying that I am, at heart, one of the oldest RariLight shippers still around. No joke, in four months, it'll be five years. That is to say, I have high standards and a long, deep list of expectations and headcanons.
For other readers, possibly unmarked spoilers ahead! You've been warned! Ed. note: this is for the first published version of the story. After some edits, some of these criticisms no longer apply.
My biggest gripe, however, is not entirely related to the shipping itself. It's how you present the framing for the story with the romance novel discussion. You see, you talk of a love triangle, but only name two characters, Cut Diamond and Gleaming Shield. The protagonist remains, I assume, unnamed. For me, I had trouble following Rarity and Twilight's discussion of the characters because the third character went unnamed.
As a result of my inability to follow their discussion of the novel that Rarity's using to confess her feelings to Twilight, I don't have a hook to draw me into their blossoming feelings. While it seems like Rarity's got a solid platform for her own feelings, Twilight's are less developed. More critically, it seems like Twilight is intended to identify with the protagonist, hence Rarity's insistence on the pairing with Cut Diamond, the character she identifies with. We're not given anything about this third character, but she seems immensely necessary for the reader to understand Twilight's feelings for Rarity because it grounds Twilight's own character in the shared narrative of debating two perspectives on who that character should choose.
You mention in the author's note wanting to branch into more of a personal third-person perspective without using character's thoughts through an internal monologue. As a reader, I feel like I'm missing a lot of detail about the character's thinking. There are varying degrees of third person, from the narrowest being a telling from a single character's (possibly biased, incorrect, or otherwise influenced) perspective, to following alternating characters, to an all-knowing narrator telling the audience all of the details. The problem I'm seeing, then, is that it seems like we're supposed to be following Twilight's perspective, but we lack details from her thoughts, her actions, or her interpretations of Rarity's actions and how that might be influenced by or influencing her own thoughts and actions.
Rarity seems to be the more fleshed out of the two characters. Again, some of this comes back to the issue with the framing device and the unnamed romance novel protagonist. Whether it's not there or I'm not understanding it, Twilight just doesn't have the same development. Where Rarity has the agency of history, the act of selecting the book and making her feelings known, Twilight is put on the spot and we're left with little to go on as she tries to come to terms with her own feelings.
To sum up, while I can see this story working, and I think it has its cute moments (I do appreciate the awkward kiss, it feels right for Twilight at the very least), the problems with framing it around a romance novel that's poorly explained drags it down in a way that detracts from the shipping. In particular, if you're going to have two characters debate a novel in the hopes of establishing their feelings for one another, it's important that the novel itself gives much more to work with in terms of exploring deeper into their characters, their motivations and wants and needs, and why they would make the decisions that lead to a romantic relationship.
I enjoyed the story, especially given how much I like reading myself. :)
However, JKinsley has some good points. I felt there was a bit more detail on Gleaming Shield than he did, but a bit more would be useful.
But it was a fun quick read with a satisfying emotional ending, I thought.
6937835 I'm looking for as much criticism as I need, I suppose. Your Rarilight sounds a lot like my Twipie, so I'm rather glad you've decided to give this story a shot and leave me such a review. So, I've read your review like, ten times, and then reread this story as well, and I can see what you're saying. I have gone back and added a name for the main character, although I know that wasn't really the main issue you had with her. I'm just not sure how I could go about fixing that for this story.
You did, however, hit on something that I realize is probably the main problem, mostly thanks to your review. You said: "The problem I'm seeing, then, is that it seems like we're supposed to be following Twilight's perspective, but we lack details from her thoughts, her actions, or her interpretations of Rarity's actions and how that might be influenced by or influencing her own thoughts and actions." and I have to agree. I think my biggest problem is that I just don't know how to write like that if it isn't in first person. It isn't a lack of exposure, because I feel like this is how most novels and fanfics are written, but I guess I don't actually know how to get into a characters head without being in their head. That is something for me to work on, and I'll be looking up writing stuff about it as I have time, and try to practice more with it.
So, it sounds like I'm justifying, I think, and I'm really not. You have wonderfully valid points and I appreciate being told what it is that I need to work on. I rather liked the review you left. So thank you.
[also oh my stars hi you're like one of my fave writers on this site]
6937780 Thank you!
6939033 Yeah, he had some great points, I agree. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
6939058
I looked at your user page this morning after I posted that and then I felt a little guilty about how extensive I was with that review. To have you list one of my stories in the same top 5 as Monochromatic's Enchanted Library really means a lot. I hope that wasn't unnerving or anything.
One thing you can try is a little exercise I was introduced to recently. It's a series of questions you answer about a romantic pairing. You can do it for this story, this ship, or any other story or pairing you do in the future. So say that you have characters X and Y. Why does X love Y? In what ways does Y bother X, even though they love each other? Why does Y love X? In what ways does X bother Y, even though they love each other? What do they like doing together? What do they fight about?
In taking the time to answer those questions well, it can help inform how you actually write them together.
I know how challenging it can be to go back and rework a story that lacks important structure. I should try and dig up one of earlier drafts of the first chapter of Canterlot's Guests. It was a big change, so much got edited and added that the final draft was about double the size.
Your mechanics are sound. The ending is sweet. I just didn't get into it because I struggled at the start. I do hope you can take some more time and, even if it doesn't go into this story, make more progress with shipping Rarilight. It's still my favorite.
6939438 No, no, extensive is so good. Please don't feel guilty. Are you talking about bookplayer's blog about brainworms? I thought of that, actually, when I was writing this and I did try to put some of it in here, but I guess it didn't come though nearly as well as I thought it would. I'll probably try rewriting this later, to be honest, because I rather like the premise. I just need to have more of a structure for the book they were reading than what little bit I had. I appreciate the advice, though, and I'll certainly try to put everything you've said into what I write next. And I'm really glad you liked some of the story.
6937835
6939058
I spied this out from the new fics feed and, seeing a request for concrit, felt I would oblige it best I can.
6937835 brings up what are really the two main points that we want to look at for critical assessment. These are
1 - Using the romance book with characters we don't know as a platform/metaphor for those that we do know
2 - the absence of italicized thoughts from characters and whether their absence is made up for in some other way.
I'll start with 1. This is a good story premise. It is. We get to see Rarity and Twilight dance around the plain and honest truth using expy and innuendo. There's plenty of ways to present actions and images that our characters (Rarity, Twilight, etc) haven't done but might or would do, as fits the characters they see themselves as being similiar to.
The problem, however, is actually right up front. They're discussing a story we haven't read. Fanfiction works (and proliferates) because we share this common pool of known characters, but, we don't really know anything at all about those book characters. I think four were named? -Cut Diamond, Serenity, Gleaming Shield, and (I'ma check this, brb... - Bridleway [had to check])
I get that Cut Diamond is supposed to be a stand-in, or 'expy' for Rarity, the clue is the name, but I'm still not certain if Serenity or Gleaming Shield was supposed to be Twilight, and I'm at a loss entirely as to place Bridleway as anypony at all. Basically, there were a bunch of names, there were a bunch of character traits, and a bunch of distinct events, and they all got mixed up together and as a reader, I didn't know which of each belonged to whom; it was all a bit overwhelming.
Rarity and Twilight know what they're talking about (and even they have seperate interpretations on how to see things with these characters) but I didn't.
ie - it was confusing. I'm still confused.
There was a lot of information presented without enough context or order to build a foundation on. I'm still only sorta-lukewarm confident that Twilight's supposed-to-be character is Serenity, and that's not 100%, and solving that leaves me with the question of, who is Gleaming Shield supposed to be. Is she supposed to be anyone?
So, for me, in this concrit review, the question is then, how to present the information without confusing the reader? Options -
- Parcel out information in smaller packages. Don't be afraid to start really basic for us readers, because we're simple creatures. It wouldn't be out of place at all for Rarity or Twilight to give a super-brief synopsis of the book.
Something as easy to parse as -
In fact, having actual excerpts, ie paragraphs from their book, flashbacks of a sorts, to read for ourselves would do a very good job of letting us build our own understanding and impression of these characters and why R and TS associate with them, instead of being told to take it on faith without any kind of idea as for ourselves.
It's a lot of Tell for not a lot of Show, as it stands. Showing us a few key moments that give TS and R the reasons to associate with the characters that they do would go a long way to adding some lovely imagery to the story (by stirring up the setting) and helping it to make more sense.)
- Cut out things that only distract/don't matter/confuse. Who is Bridleway? Does it matter? Since the name shows up but does nothing, I can only assume not. But just having it there added to my general confusion.
...I don't feel I'm really succeeding at this concrit just now, and - if my ramblings seem confused - that's because they are. That's the feeling I'm working with here.
SUFFICED TO SAY - there was a lot new information to take in very quickly, and it wasn't too clear on how to assemble that information, or how it was important (and sometimes it wasn't) to the characters and the story overall.
Having read the story twice now, if you asked me to summarise the events, I wouldn't be able to do a clear and concise job on that, and that doesn't seem right.
As for the other point, the thoughts in italics thing, ie, issue 2 (which I won't go on and on about like I did point one) - and this is my personal opion here, so some people will surely disagree, and, that said:
italicied thoughts are over-used quite/very often and, like a crutch, can become a bad habit. While you do see them crop up in professionally published books quite often, its always in small numbers, happening maybe no more than ten or twenty times over the length of the entire book. Plenty of books don't use them at all.
So, these things said, I think that it's good that you're consciously trying to winnow down on them, and better control why and when you do use italicized thoughts. And, despite the rather critical and jarbled words above, I do think you've done a fairly good job here without them.
Look at very start of the story:
There's no ambiguity here at all, and the writing in good entertaining fashion really shows us what Twilight Sparkle is thinking and feeling. Twilight huffs, her cheeks go pink, there's "glares" and "personaly offended." you can just hear the bitter, nigh sarcastic way she emphasises words like obviously and honestly and so unoriginal.
And, honestly? italic thoughts in this example would have ruined it a bit, because Twilight has already absolutely shown us what she thinks and feels on the matter. Adding the thought would just be redundant and take the mind's eye from the actual scene and events there.
Even when the story progresses to the point where I stop being able to follow what they're referencing, the actual emotions, gestures and mannerisms keep strong and apparant - or at least - they don't get too badly muddled by the confusing events and references of the story.
So, that's good.
OVERALL (and this has been a godsawful long, confused, rambling attempt of a thing)
- I think you picked an interesting premise (using their book as a metaphor, slowly getting closer and closer to their own admission of feelings) BUT as a writer you didn't handle it as cleanly and clearly as this particular premise calls for, especially considering that we readers simply have no way of knowing what they're talking about until they explain it to us, and even then we only have that information second-hand as it were (instead of seeing it for ourselves)
- I think, despite that big problem, the individual sentences were written well, and helped in conveying the mood and emotion of the characters, through their expressions, their actions, their dialogue tags and their choice of words. There are problems in this story, and a big one too, but adding italicized thoughts were never going to make those better and, in a few places, would have made it worse.
(Again, I acknowledge people might disagree:) Italicied thoughts are simply not suited to being a work-horse, communicating the bulk of information regarding characters in the same way that dialogue tags, actions, expressions, wording, etc do, page after page. Rather instead, the italiced thoughts are more specialized for rare, more carefully chosen moments.
SOO, all said and done... This story does not work in regards to being a cohesive plot that, as a reader, I can make sense of. There's too much information, presented in too confusing a manner to easily come to grips with.
HOWEVER, this story does work as an exercise in writing two characters (Rarity and Twilight, plus extras) moving through thoughts and emotions that the reader can readily understand without using any italicied thoughts to point-blank spell it out for us. In that regard, it works.
The end feeling I get is that I've just watched a foreign-language show with good acting and no subtitles. I don't know what the characters are actually saying, but I can infer the essentials of relationship and emotion anyhow.
You put in a good effort, 6939061 , and at the sentence-by-sentence level, the writing is good. I just think you picked a particularly challenging premise and that this premise - writing about a story within a story, which the characters use as a metaphor for their story and having it all make sense to us silly readers - caught you off guard.
I enjoyed this, and better luck next time!
Hope this ramble/rant helps!
any questions, just ask, I'll do my best to answer!
6939438 Oh man, my post would have been considerably shorter and more concise if I'd remebered these three words:
But yes, reading the words now, that's a big part of what this is. Both the story we read and the story inside the story ie, the book, lack structure.
I think breaking up the story with excerpts from the book, each excerpt communicating a key idea - be that a character, an emotion, etc, and having R and TS discuss/debate that point before progressing would help greatly with following everything that's going on.
Also, it'd be a fun way to move the setting around and throw in some exciting/intriguing/sensual actions without actually doing anything of those things.
6939622 I'm going to give you a proper reply, I promise, and I've read the whole thing, but Bridleway is the term used in show for Broadway, as far as I remember.
My god. So much polite criticism and pleasant discourse! Where is my internet, and what have you done with it?
But for real. Major kudos to you, author, for being such a good sport. A lot of people would have cracked with this much feedback, but you're taking it great. That's the key to improvement.
I'll just say that I enjoyed the fic, and leave it there. Keep writing! I hope to see more from you. You've earned a follower here.
~Doc
6939622 First, thank you for such a detailed review! I'm rather happy that you ultimately enjoyed this.
I am confused, though, on what you mean by:
Do you mean that I can show this through the characters of the romance book, or something else?
I guess this could be spoilery, so don't read this paragraph maybe? But you were right, Serenity is supposed to represent Twilight. Both Gleaming Shield and Cut Diamond represent Rarity. Twilight sees Rarity as Gleaming Shield, and Rarity sees herself more as Cut Diamond.
Okay, so I can see what you mean. I'll go back and try to find ways to naturally weave in the romance novel with what Twilight and Rarity are discussing. Maybe it'll make their discussion of the novel longer, but that shouldn't really matter. I hope. I also really appreciate that you think I did alright without the thoughts. I'm just having trouble finding a way to do a close, personal third person narrative. I know I've read them successfully, but trying to suss out what makes them work is harder than I anticipated.
And I agree with you on the italicized thoughts. I've used them so much in the last few stories that I've published on here, and even when I write them, I don't feel like they're entirely needed.
Thank you, again, for the suggestions and the wonderful review. This will go a long way to helping me rewrite this story, and certainly will help what I write in the future.
6939871 Thank you, I'm so pleased that you liked this. I appreciate the compliments! [also, hi. between you and 6939438 I just might faint. You're writing my current second favorite story. my stars this is the day for me to fangirl.]
I'm going to try to answer a couple of questions and otherwise address a few things here. My other comment was made while on my phone at work, and I had a couple of ideas after mulling things over. (Also, minor point of correction, I prefer female pronouns. No biggie)
6939508
Yes, that exercise is taken indirectly from Bookplayer's blog post. I was introduced to it in a thread by Titanium Dragon in the Twilestia is Bestia group. (You can see the full thread here and read my response here.) I might expand more on that in my own blog post in the future, maybe do groups of questions for other ships I enjoy.
Anyway.
In reading over 6939622 's comments, I had the idea of Rarity and Twilight getting into a more heated debate regarding the book. Twilight would cite specific passages from memory ("In chapter three, Serenity and Gleaming Shield blah blah blah, but Cut Diamond blah blah blah"), showing that even though she states that she wasn't interested in the book, she clearly took it to heart and wanted Serenity and Gleaming Shield to get together because of her feelings for Rarity. In having Twilight reference specific events from the novel, you can show the reasoning behind the ship.
I could probably also give some more solid advice on edits if you're rewriting the story. I'm sure you're familiar with some of my work there, having taken a look at a few of your bookshelves.
This story reads so much better after the revision. The book's plot makes sense, the character associations make sense, everything makes sense. The way the romance starts out entirely hypothetical and then gradually blurs into Rarity and Twilight's own conversation is both much clearer and much more subtle. Excellent improvement!
This is either very very in-your-face-honest Fluttershy, or there's a missing 'not' in here.
Either way: Loving the improvement!
6953758 Oh, I'm glad you like the changes! I had actually noticed that, and it was originally supposed to be we're not, but then I was like...nah, I like overly honest Fluttershy here. So I kept it. Your comments helped a lot, and I really do appreciate them, so thank you!
Grrrr... Serenity should've totally chosen Gleaming Shield instead of that awful Cut Diamond.
I mean, come on! She was clearly the better choice!
7129545 agree
7147881 GO GLEAMING SHIELD!
7129545
7147881
7373359 lol, I'm glad you guys liked the 'other' story as well. But I think Rarity and Twily have some really biased opinions.
This one nearly, but didn't quite, hit the mark for me. I'm fine with dialogue-heavy fics, and though where the plot was going was fairly obvious the specifics did surprise me a little. It also has a very nice last line. The trouble is that I didn't quite get the spark from the actual romance. I'm not a big shipfic reader, so that may have a bearing.