Epilogue – The Other Side
Celestia lit her horn and lowered her head, setting the sun below the horizon. The sky was streaked with orange, fading to purple, before Luna took hold of the moon and brought it up to begin the night. Celestia turned her eyes upward as stars slowly appeared in great swirling swathes above her. It was slightly sad, she reflected, not for the first time. No matter whether enough had been accomplished, the day was over. She knew that ponies needed to rest though, and at least they could do so under her sister’s watchful eye ...
Beside her, Luna yawned widely, squeaking at the end. Perhaps not so watchful tonight. Celestia smirked and raised a wing to lay over Luna’s back. “Is little Luna tired? I know it’s been a long day …” she asked, partly worried, partly teasing to hide her worry.
Luna shrugged her wing off, annoyed. “Stop it. I am a big pony now, I need not your tiresome ministrations.” A bell chimed mournfully in the distance, eight times. Luna sagged slightly. “I … I do not mind standing vigilant for such times, when I must. You have done the same for me, for far longer …”
That was not the way to make Celestia less worried. She watched Luna’s downcast expression. “That doesn’t mean you need to repay me, sister.”
Luna stood up straighter, looking out over Canterlot. It was clear that she would do her duty, regardless. “I know.”
Celestia watched her for a moment more, before turning her gaze out to the city as well. Luna always tried so hard. It would only be right to let her do as she wished.
They didn’t have much time, as always. Raven, her dependable scribe, had deposited a mountain of papers on Celestia’s desk that needed to be shrunk before she went to bed. That was what happened when she lost her mind and went on an adventure for a day. At least she had Kibitz to take care of everything else.
Still, she was glad it had happened. Star Swirl was one more mystery laid to rest, although …
She spoke up again, her brow creasing. “Luna, you never told me what was wrong.”
Luna turned towards her, a questioning look on her face. “What do you mean?”
Celestia explained, “When I didn’t remember the last thousand years, I asked you why you used to be so quiet. You never answered me.”
Her sister thought back, remembering what she had said. “… didn’t I? I was hoping you would get your memory back before I had to tell you, but …”
She shook her head. “No, before that. You were so withdrawn, even all the way back then. We hadn’t even found the Elements of Harmony yet. What made you like that?”
Luna understood and mentally cringed. Oh, that. “Oh. Uh … it’s nothing.”
Predictably, Celestia frowned. If there was half a reason to worry, that was a whole reason too much. “It’s not nothing, it’s important. You can talk to me about these things, I don’t want you to be upset if I can help it!”
She bit her lip. How could she make her sister stop? There was no way Luna wanted to tell her, it was too embarrassing. The only thing Luna could think of was the truth – with bits cut out. “I know that, Celie, but I have taken care of it. It is nothing of concern.”
Celestia blinked. The little Luna that needed her help had turned into a confident and independent younger princess, capable of solving her own problems. When had that happened? “… if you’re certain. I am always here for you, sister.”
There. She was safe, as long as Celestia got distracted by something else before she started worrying again. “And I am here for you. Goodnight, sister.”
“Goodnight, Luna.” With one last smile, Celestia turned and walked back inside to make decisions for the fate of Equestria.
Luna watched her go. That had been too close. It probably wouldn’t have been too bad, to let her know, but she didn’t need to find out. No, what she needed was a sister she could rely on. Luna spread her wings and took off, to go protect Equestria from the terrors in the night.
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For me the writing itself isn't hard, it is the motivation and drive to do it in the first place! Anyway, this was a neat little story.
good start. bad ending
I don't think Twilight was fangirling enough about Discord being Star Swirl... and I guess everypony lives happily ever after?
5376324 Yeah, I guess I did ...
Can I ask why it's bad though? I know the end is shorter, and I did the Star Swirl thing you didn't like.
but why is it bad?I mean, how can I make it better?I'm ... guessing by your name that you
likedon't like Discord?While it was a good story, the ending felt... rather abrupt. We saw the reveal a while ago, but then Celestia just gains her memories and it just kind of ends. I can't say where I would end it, if I was writing, so I didn't mind it too much.
Well, that ... went quicker than I expected. To be honest, the short, frequent chapters were nice compared to the 'let's wait seven months before I put out another chapter' stories I normally read.
Ahem. Yes, anyway.
It also wrapped up wa~ay quicker than I expected. Discord seemed to know what the haps was yo when they first started to interrogate him but when Twitwi zapped him with the mental magic, he seemed as surprised as everyone else. Don't know what's up with that but okay. For a start, it's not bad - not great but not at all bad. I actually like the Starswirl = Discord thing (I use it myself) so there is also that.
Overall, I liked it. It wasn't perfect but there were very few glaring errors and you handled 'suddenly in feature box' better than most other new authors. Most I'd suggest is adding a few layers of obfuscation to keep the audience guessing a bit more and getting comfortable enough to make longer pieces. Good on ya.
Bleh. The story was a decent idea, but I found the pacing to feel a little rushed, and I hate the Star Swirl/Discord thing.
5376486 Thanks! I've waited for stories like that, and I have one story that I'll finish writing eventually. I liked being able to post this story quickly too.
The Discord thing sounds like something I need to fix, so, uh ... that will happen soon, when I figure out how to do that. The idea is that Discord doesn't know he's Star Swirl, but remembers when the memory spell is cast ... people don't like it. I understand that, because the story started with Celestia, after all. Hm.
The dialog all sort of runs together here. You can piece together who's talking but you shouldn't have to. You go through five different characters in different places at different times without showing that the time, place, or characters have changed; it's just dialog.
This needed to be spread out, given setting.
The resolution and ending were also very abrupt. This needed to be fleshed out more; it feels more like a concept than a full fledged story.
-my (hopefully) constructive criticism
5376349
For once I can generally agree. Although to call it bad is a bit harsh. Mostly it seems rushed and abrupt. It's also weirdly paradoxical to have Starswirl arrive well in the future to cannibalize Twilight Sparkle's work so he can become Discord before she was ever born. Hopefully Twilight doesn't, in a hypothetical future, start studying time travel now that she knows the long time variety is quite doable.
5376470
Yeah. The ending is abrupt, obvious, and not particularly interesting once chaos magic is mentioned. I'm not sure why Starswirl's spell to take Celestia's memory should be made of chaotic magic. Without an explanation of magic/magic types within this version of Equestria, that doesn't make any sense. I get that a link between Discord and the lingering traces of magic is important, but it'd make a better story if it was less blatant and immediately obvious. That no serious effort was required on Twilight's part to identify it seems a bit of a stretch. Also, it's never explained why Starswirl turned into a Draconequus as a result of having cast that spell and yet can flip back at will somehow. Basically I don't think his magic should have been wholly chaotic before that event. Perhaps mind magic could be a little chaotic inherently and that should get Twilight's attention. I don't see why he, Starswirl, should be able to flip so easily. If he doesn't then he has to explain that he is Starswirl and apologize rather than the former being obvious fact or at least the possibility thereof. -- As it stands, the bit about Discord having defeated Tirek, but not having been seen by Starswirl should probably have played a larger role and yet it seems irrelevant except in retrospect.
I don't hate the Star Swirl/Discord thing, but I do agree that Twilight seems decidedly subdued and not concerned about it. I feel like she should have some kind of less neutral reaction to that and his use of her spellwork. I also feel like Discord is not much of his canon self at all here, and I don't see why that should be the case. The portrayal seems out of line with his past chaotic actions. It also seems a bit off that Celestia and Luna aren't bothered by Starswirl being one of their major enemies. Outlining some of the past of this world concerning Discord would help with the latter two.
5376654 I'm just not a supporter of Starswirl being Discord idea. It's just below the Nightmare Moon being a parasite idea. The final chapters just killed this story for me.
5376666
Sorry. I don't have any particular problem with the concept, just with this particular incarnation. There seem to be a number of loose ends and some characterization issues.
5376673 I think there is enough in cannon to lean to it not being true there is alot of gray area but still a story killer for me. sadly this isn't the first story i had to put down for doing such a thing. Another good story went the Nightmare parasite route . But i'll say this. I was surprised to see four chapters out and you are right too rushed at the end.
So goes back to my first post. Good Story concept and well executed but falls apart on the final leg.
I've heard the general idea at the heart of this before... That Those two characters were one and the same, but this is the first time I've read a story about it and come across the idea of the unfinished spell as the catalyst for it all... That's rather clever. I also like the paradoxical nature of it... There's something very chaotic about it all. One could even go so far as to suggest that chaos was a consequence of breaking the universe with a paradox.
...has author lost interest? The ending looks rushed and crumped.
I really liked the premise, but looking how fast everything got wrapped up... it is quite disappointing.
Ha! Great chapter! Can't wait for the next on-
I hate endings
Wait a minute... COMPLETE?! It's over? But, but... I liked this story
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5376654
A bit harsh? I think, if anything, that everything you just wrote supports Admiral Q Ponyform’s contention that it was a bad ending. What is a bad ending if not one that is poorly written, rushed, and fails on multiple levels?
5376666
I’m curious, is it actually the parasite aspect or the way that it’s often used to excuse Luna of any and all culpability that grinds your gears?
5377179 both. Luna is an overall better character if she follows the Anakin/Vader or the Batman Two Face route. It makes her the tragic hero. and NMM the tragic villian
Eh
Although it did feel a teeny bit rushed, I really enjoyed these last few chapters! ^^
So uuuh, what happened at the ending?
I'd say the ending needs a bit of a rewrite, this was so rushed, I actually felt wind on my face as I read it.
5378448 Why? Unless pets are also people? Animals have feelings ...
5378967 Working on it. I thought it was ok before I posted it, I was wrong
5377179
Sorry if I was confusing. I am differentiating between 'inherently bad and completely faulty' and 'needs improvement/some revision or rewriting'. @Admiral Q Ponyform has indicated, somewhere above, that he is totally against the Starswirl = Discord thing.
5376666
Same here. Between the apparent rush, and the direct conflict with canon that I pointed out, as well as the conflict with unofficial statements and the gaping plothole that is Discord teaming up with (and not expecting to get backstabbed by) someone he defeated more than a thousand years in the past, I must say this ending really ruined the story for me.
5380605
Ah, understood. Thanks for the clarification.
5381105 ... how did Tirek know about Cadance? I assume Cadance is about as a old as Shining Armor.
It seems to me like Tirek gathered some news after his escape during the episode It's About Time, but doesn't know everything. For Discord's part, I thought I made it clear he didn't remember ...
I don't think the canon conflict is your only complaint against the story. I'm sorry the rewrite was still bad ...
5381455 well there are some major issues with Twilight's Kingdom.
The big one is, HOW did somepony not notice he was not in Tartarus anymore for two years, or the fact that hey, a bunch of ponies had their magic sucked out of them.
How did he know Cadance but not Twilight, especially after her coranation she would have been all the hype for at least one year he was free.
They missed the chance to explain Luna's change in appearance from pilot to Luna Eclipse. After losing their magic she should have seen pilot Luna and a pink hair Celestia.
AFTER Discord. Nothing says they ruled before hand. they might have been born before Discord's rule but be rulers themselves.
And I already said my peice on the Discord is Starswirl thing.
But the final truth is that you had a great story concept going here but the ending just doesn't work. This could have been longer and another reason for her losing those memories.
Everything we have show wise points to the Sister's being coranatted
5381669 This is the same issue everyone had with Shining Armor back after Season 2, he wasn't mentioned before. The excuse for Shining Armor was that Twilight is too much of a bookworm. I think the excuse for Tirek is that he was so weak that he wasn't a threat and the Princesses couldn't find him ... but they knew he escaped. That's why Discord was reformed at all, because Celestia knew his chaos magic could defeat a non-alicorn powered Tirek. The Princesses had their vision only when he was strong enough to be a threat and even be seen by ponies.
I don't know that Season 4 was a whole year. Was there a winter episode?
I think pilot Luna was just her being super weak after Nightmare Moon. In the episode Princess Twilight Sparkle, Luna had her Season 2 appearance. I think their manes stopped moving when they lost their magic?
I've rewritten the ending, is everything still bad? I don't know what else I can say ...
5381698 haven't seen the rewitten ending. so i will can and get back to you.
Your theory on Tirek, very plausible though if the sister's knew he was loose but still weak they could have beaten him then and not needed Discord for it. In honestly Tirek was not the best choice for the villian from Tartarus, his nature doesn't jibe with it well since he needs to take magic from others. Good villian and i can see what they tried to do but this is a major plot issue and kinda reflects bad on the sisters.
5381698 the rewrite is better but it still feels rushed. and you leave a question unanswered with Luna. so my opinion is unchanged.
5381669
You made several assumptions, at least one of which is definitely wrong.
Who says he was out for two years? It's about time is in Season 2, and if you take Season 1 to the beginning of Season 4 as one year, that means he was only free for ten months or so. Also, who says he was stealing magic the whole time? Maybe he waited until Twilight's Kingdom before stealing magic.
It's never stated that Tirek knew Cadance. Celestia says she doesn't think Tirek knows a fourth Alicorn Princess exists, but he might also not know a third one exists! I mean, Celestia had some pretty bad oversights in her plan, it might be the case that he didn't know at all, and Celestia just thought Twilight was unknown to him and the perfect vessel (as the Element of Magic) for holding their magic. Second, it certainly wasn't a year between MMC and Twilight's Kingdom. It's been officially stated that EqG to Rainbow Rocks is six months. So we're looking at six months or less since Twilight was crowned. Given that nopony seems to recognize Twilight as a princess in Season 4 episodes (failing to get a cab, for instance), I don't think Tirek would have discovered her existence within the short period of time he was stealing magic from ponies, especially since he probably wasn't asking them.
5381455
5381747
But it isn't an arm. It's a leg. Spike has arms. Iron Will has arms. Ponies don't have arms.
5383178 then the writers are really getting screwy. Common sense for most shows say a season is a year. We might now see everything that happens during that year.
and where in RR doesn't it say it's been six months?
and again the whole alicorn question is a failure of the writers. They really needed to put more thought on this episode.
5383247
Aside from the arguments you've probably heard before about the Summer Sun Celebration in Season 4 being the first since NMM, and it's an annual event, there's also statements like Twilight saying it's a short time since she came to Ponyville in MMC, the fact that if Winter Wrap is placed chronologically after Hearth's Warming (which it can) then we only have one year, we only seen one birthday mentioned for each character who's birthday's have been mentioned, Nightmare Night in Season 2 being the first since Season 1, so only three months after it, etc.
It isn't mentioned in Rainbow Rocks, it was a statement by one of the writers. I can't give you a link because someone else on another comment thread (who held the multi-year view) claimed it. I'd have to ask them for a link, if I can find their comment.
And yes, that episode was poorly planned.
5383411 well the first Summer Sun Celebration since NMM, another major writer's error, not the first time they've done that. Mare Do Well comes to mind.
Frankly the crew at DHX really needs to fix there choronogly just by the fact they have Winter Wrap up before running of the leaves and Hearth's warming.
5383190 Personally, I prefer to see "oversights" on Celestia's part as her just being enigmatic. Trust an immortal to play the long game. Celestia's plan in the pilot episodes involved being defeated and letting Twilight figure everything out. It worked.
For Tirek, she had Discord and Twilight on call. The objective was always to re-imprison Tirek, which, you know, isn't really any of Cadance's business. Defeating ultimate evil is kinda Twilight's department, so that's what she planned around, along with the Harmony chest. It also worked, and she wasn't terribly surprised to see a big crystal tree castle afterwards. Everything according to plan, or close enough that she could expect it, even if she didn't tell anypony. She didn't even tell Luna what they could use Discord for, up until she had to. vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/9/98/Twilight%2C_Luna%2C_and_Cadance_gasp_in_shock_S4E25.png/revision/latest?cb=20140512105313
I should say that I think Celestia is a really interesting character, which is why I tried to write an interesting story about her.
Whether Discord or Tirek came first is difficult to say either way, but I put Tirek first, because I want to believe that Celestia has at least one reason and usually more for doing everything.
vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/4/42/Tirek_banished_to_Tartarus_S4E25.png/revision/latest?cb=20140512104842
vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/4/46/Tirek_angry_at_Discord_with_chains_on_his_hands_S4E25.png/revision/latest?cb=20140512123113
5383817
It's not enigmatic that she didn't realize Discord could tell Tirek about Twilight at anytime, since they were working together. It's a ridiculous flaw in the plan that anyone should have noticed.
And there's no proof Celestia was defeated in the pilot. For all we know, Celestia could have been on vacation for the whole NMM 2 incident. But she did have a plan that didn't involve her and was purposefully enigmatic.
It's interesting that you brought up the chain thing, because I believe I had brought it up in an earlier comment on this same story (I think it was about Scorpan not being essential in Tirek's defeat, except for warning the ponies beforehand). I'll look for that.
5383535
When Winter Wrap Up was written FiM was only planned for one season. So chronology wasn't that important to them then.
What was wrong with Mare Do Well, exactly? I know that episode's received a ton of hate, but I don't think it was that unreasonable. I mostly agree with MysteriousMrEnter's review of it (actually, I agree with most of his reviews, except Twilight's Kingdom and a couple others).
5383910 the lesson could have been taught better. Okay RD's ego was getting a tad out of control. But you try to talker to her first. Nope they went MDW, and bragged about that as well. That could have easily gone bad. Heck a writer showed how. Read Dark Spectrum.
To quote a phrase. "The only thing worse then a wounded animal is a comrade betrayed." Now note RD is the Element of Loyalty. How would she react if she felt she was betrayed by her closest friends?
5383889 Discord didn't tell Tirek until after Tirek saw her in the stained glass window - when he would have learned about her anyway. Celestia may have known Discord wouldn't have trusted Tirek right away. Anyway, the point of the magic transfer was to buy time for Twilight to figure things out, so that worked. If they didn't do that, Tirek would have had all their magic when he came for Twilight.
Celestia might have just run away, but I don't think so ...
Also, she's her sister. It would be ... uncaring, to let Nightmare Moon run rampant without at least trying to reach Luna, the first time she's back from the moon in a thousand years. I mean, I can remember two times in the show where Celestia has cried, and both times it was because of Luna.
vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/e/e2/Celestia_hugging_Luna_S1E2.png/revision/latest?cb=20121003225301
vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/1/19/Princess_Celestia_Activating_the_Elements_2_S04E02.png/revision/latest?cb=20131125233028
I have your post here, if you haven't found it yet: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/233560/3/i-think-i-can-remember/chapter-2-repentance#comment/5368130
5384055
Let's assume the magic transfer never happened, and Tirek took all the magic. He would have no reason to capture Twilight and her friends, and Discord still could have given them the final key. The magic transfer didn't help in any way, so if Celestia had known the outcome there was no reason for that.
Second,
But if Celestia knew Twilight and friends would defeat NMM and return Luna, then it wouldn't be uncaring to let Nightmare Moon run rampant. It certainly wouldn't be more uncaring than planning to lose and letting NMM run rampant because she lost.
5383992
Why would she feel betrayed by her friends? Her friends did it to help her, and on top of that they saved the town from several disasters that Rainbow Dash couldn't have stopped. Would it be better if ponies died from falling of cliffs, being buried under a collapsing building, or drowning in a flood?
It's not like her friends said "Sorry Rainbow, we don't need you anymore and you're too cocky so we aren't your friends either".
5384117 but did they really need MWD to do those things? other times they would just be themselves and do that.
again the lesson Rainbow needed to learn didn't need MDW yet. THEY NEVER really talked to her. And Rainbow's pride has always been second to loyalty. Again this could have ended badly.
5384139
So could Party of One, or Lesson Zero, or any other episode where everyone ignored one of their friends. And given that their plan worked, I'd say the ends justified the means.
5384105 I don't think Celestia knew the outcome, just a vague idea of what the outcome could be, and she aimed to get the best outcome possible. The moment came when Twilight realized she had to choose her friends over her magic, so that worked. If they all just lost their magic, Twilight would have had to figure things out a different, possibly harder, way.
vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/2/28/Twilight%27s_Rainbow_Glow_S4E25.png/revision/latest?cb=20140512155910
vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/b/b0/Twilight%27s_key_shimmering_S4E26.png/revision/latest?cb=20140512184410
I guess I have to disagree with you. To me, sitting back and choosing not to do something that could work is not caring, and I feel like Celestia will hope where hope is all but pointless. Thus, she ruled alone for a thousand years, believed in Twilight, and had the spirit of chaos learn about friendship.
5384199 Party of One they weren't ignoring Pinkie Pie, they were planning a surprise birthday party. Lesson Zero they didn't consider Twilight's issue a major one till Want it need it. MDW however was a concern and again they DIDN'T try another approach first. what they did should be a last resort. Instead they used it off the bat.
5384212 On NMM, that was a gamble. a well planned gamble, but a gamble none the less. And her options about it were limited.
Option 1: Fight, She fights NMM but this could end if one or both their deaths which dooms the world if both die.
Option 2: She somehow wields the elements alone one more time (A miracle that she manage that once) NMM is sent back to the moon for another thousand years. I don't think she wants to do that to her sister a second time
Option 3: Find new bearers for the Elements and have them heal Luna.
Which of these three has the best outcome for Celestia's mindset? I know she has the nickname Trollestia but honestly this is the most trolling she does and can you blame her for it.
Tirek was a bad choice for this on how they setup his backstory here. a signifigant time past between his escaping tartarus and they first get reports of what was happening to ponies around. Too long considering his character and his needs. If he wasn't in tartarus and only now showed up would have worked better. And frankly the box should have been new physical elements not Rainbow Powers. And not everyone is thrilled with the castle design and frankly agree. They should have done what they were seemingly hinting at. The Royal Sisters Castle be her's after restoration. They goof quite a bit here.
5384212
Let me just say that I think that was the dumbest decision Twilight has ever made. She doomed her whole country to a villain in exchange for her friends, despite having no way to know he wouldn't just immediately lock them all away once he had the magic. She knew he had backstabbed Discord, why would she think he would keep his word? Even if he did though, there was no way to know that they would be able to find the last key, or that the box would give them something to defeat Tirek. For all Twilight knew, the box could have contained a "Thanks for Returning the Elements" card. It was the single most illogical thing the supposedly logical Twilight has ever done.
SUPER TWIST: Luna is secretly Celestia!
Or Starswirl again. Probably Celestia