Nai hiruvalye Valimar, nai elye hiruva; namarie!
This story is a sequel to An Altostratus Sky
Obey Shining Armor or try to stop Starlight?
Face the world her actions have helped create or try to wish it all away?
Face her past or keep it locked away?
With a will of iron, Sunset makes her choices.
Continuity: The Song of the Spheres
Branch: The Seekers of the Stars
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Honestly, I can't blame Sunset for mistrusting everyone, since all the "help" they give her comes with a lot of condescending attitude, even from the start with Chip.
Nice touch. I do love the idea of Sunset investigating paranormal phenomena in her quest for this world's magic.
Princess Celestia's students never do seem to learn the lesson of delegation until it's too late, do they? And I can't imagine this will make Sunset any more cooperative in investigating magic's resurgence. But there's really no good answer to this one; every choice comes with its own set of drastic downsides. We'll see how she handles this once she comes to.
10920261
It wasn't just in this world: Equestria has its own stories of ghosts and the dead returning. In my headcanon, Equestria is quite open to the idea of religion (magic makes it kinda hard to ignore the idea of something being out there) but for a lot of ponies that's primarily expressed as, contradictory as it may sound, a religious agnosticism (they believe that there's something above and beyond them, but that they can't know anything else about it). Sunset, as she herself said, may not know what to believe, but she knows, scientifically speaking, that there is a significant possibility that the dead still have an impact on the physical world. Paranormal phenomena aren't "weird" to her; they're potentially valid data points for a significant hypothesis.
That's the problem with having the beacon of ponykind as your mentor and role model. There are other reasons for Sunset to feel this way, though, that Cadance will discover shortly.
10920058
The problem is Sunset is naive about a lot of the things they're talking about, and it's all too easy for naivety in the student to inspire condescension in the teacher. To their eyes, they're trying to teach a child, and so they treat her like one.
And condescension, to me at least, isn't a valid reason to mistrust someone. If you have reason to suspect that they're withholding information "because you're not ready," that would be a valid reason to mistrust them; if their condescension is leading them to actively attempt to hinder you, that's another valid reason. Condescension in speech alone, though, isn't enough for me; it's possible to dislike someone for talking down to you but still trust them, while trusting someone who's acting like you're incompetent is much harder.
10920421
And that is the problem they have with Sunset, and why I find Chip to be an utterly hateable character despite genuinely trying to help. They're trying to fix emotion with logic. Which is the equivalent of trying to tame a wolf by beating it with a zoology book.
Chip goes behind Sunset's back to get information about her and force a change in her attitude for their own benefit. Cadence tries to stop a mourning Sunset with 'from Sunset's point of view' useless work and bureaucracy that is actively going against her. She has achieved nothing on their side so she obviously sees her own as the more productive.
Even if they haven't done anything 'to her face' to make her distrust them, they haven't done anything to build trusts or a cooperative stance. "We need to work together or people will die" can only go so far as motivation when people die regardless or sometimes because of 'the greater good'.
In short, these idiots are treating Sunset like a child, telling her how unimportant or detrimental her opinions and values are, while assuring her that doing what they need is the best.
I agree with Fans back there, they need to get someone who actually knows how to treat people like people, not just tools for a cause.
10920413
Funny how little you ever hear about the orcs' beautiful singing voices...
10920436
Okay, so first off that metaphor is brilliant, I am going to pillage it for my records. Second, good point; appeals to logos are difficult when the audience is primarily focused on pathos. The only problem is this is also one of the most important times to use logos, to try to bring an audience out of an emotionally-charged state and remind them of what objectively needs to be done.
Yes, Sunset's angst's impact on her work was part of the reason that Chip went behind her back, but another part was genuine concern for her emotional health. It's not just that Sunset's grief was dragging down her performance, it was also causing her great personal distress, something which Chip, perhaps unclearly, genuinely wanted to help relieve.
As for Cadance, I will admit that at a second glance her interruption of Sunset's remembrance of Adagio was a bit callous, and Sunset's work in the capitol has been about as fruitful as Sisyphus pushing his boulder. But, as Cadance's bet with Chip indicates, the government was aware of her plans to, strictly speaking, abandon her post, making the genuineness of her mourning (rightly or wrongly) suspect: for all Cadance knew, she might've been just acting, trying to convince anyone watching her that she wasn't at Shining's departure out of grief. And regarding her boulder-pushing, it's still doing some good, good that, as Cadance pointed out, they need done and only Sunset can do. Relatively speaking, Sunset can do the most good, can do her part for the realm, by continuing her consulting with the government.
Good points.
I'm not sure that they've been so out-of-hand dismissive of Sunset's opinions and values, I would actually argue that Cadance tries to steel-man Sunset's argument here, but I can see where you're coming from.
Hopefully Cadance can make up for her initial mistakes.
10920470
Go ahead
The problem is that emotions don't care about objectives. They want to be expressed in whatever means they have available. If you don't do something to help vent those emotions, they'll stonewall your efforts or self-destruct if contained for too long (talking from experience)
I do know that they want to help, but they're doing it in the worst way possible. When Sunset realizes what Chip has done, any trust Chip manged to build up will crumple into dust. From Sunset's perspective, if Chip is willing to go behind her back to "help her", what won't they do to control her?
A government that has been admitted to not want to help her, that it's leader will torture Sunset because of her past, and that Chip said Sunset should trust because "at least one person might be good". Not laying the best foundations for a good work environment.
Also, this is a bit of a personal thing, but since we the audience don't get to see any progress or even what Sunset could achieve if things went right, it's difficult to find worth in those efforts.
I was talking mostly about Chip here. I don't know what you mean by steel-man the argument.
In my opinion, Cadance won't be enough. Sunset needs a therapist, not a teacher. And the first rule of therapy is to get the patient to accept the treatment willingly. Otherwise, you'll only get stonewalls and distrust. That step was already lost with Chip and their explanation of politics and digging into her past (well intentioned or not).
10920802
With every point you make, Chip looks worse and worse in my eyes. Quick question, though; does it just seem like Chip made a lot of mistakes/errors, or do they look like a poorly-written character?
Thank you for this, I'll try to remedy this (at least somewhat) next chapter.
It's a debate technique I learned of a while ago, where you try to prove your opponent's argument instead of disproving it, basically the opposite of straw-manning. It's brilliant; either you discover that your opponent's argument has merit and thus manage to grow as a person, or you prove that it doesn't and they can't rebut your argument because you made their argument your argument.
The government is more misguided/ignorant than actively malicious (Sunset and Radiance have been trying to teach them about the dangers magic's return poses, but habit, bureaucratic inertia, and good old-fashioned ignoring inconvenient truths have been hampering them), but your points are valid. Where else would she go, though? Magic's coming back everywhere, so her response needs to be as widespread as possible. What other methods of dispersing information about magic to those who can make use of that information are there? The government is horrible, yes, but to me it looks like the least worst option for Sunset.
Sunset's trauma dates back to her time in Equestria, a length of time long enough for a reasonable person to assume she was offered therapy; it is still affecting her, indicating that either she refused said therapy or it didn't resolve her issues. She refused to talk about her past and didn't look into therapy, a combination which I would argue could be construed as a refusal to seek clearly needed help. Under these circumstances, and with its disruption of her critical work, I would argue that an intervention is warranted, which is what Cadance is (very roughly) attempting to do. I will not say that she is doing it perfectly (she might have been able to prevent Sunset from going with Shining without having to knock her out, for instance), but I will say that, under the circumstances, an intervention of some kind appears to be warranted even if Sunset doesn't want it. I understand your point about needing to accept therapy, and I would probably support you in the real world, but in this story, when so much is riding on Sunset, the needs of the many who her going with Shining would potentially harm outweigh her wants. I am not proposing to overrule her willy-nilly, only to recognize that her actions and inactions have significant impact on others and that she should, for the common good, adjust her course of action accordingly.
10920887
The way I see it, Chip is a character that has one big flaw; they're too smart for their own good. Chip thinks they know Sunset because they can see her problems and predict her actions to an extent (what someone who has read a lot about psychology would be able to tell, at least), but there's a big gap between that and knowing Sunset as a person and how to act and speak to get the best response from her.
What told me this from the start was simple; the first thing they did when they realized Sunset had hidden trauma was to call Celestia and dig into her past. That is the logical course of action that would get the quickest solution for Chip. But that course of action completely disregards Sunset's feelings outside of the trauma. Chip thinks that as soon as they have the answers, they'll logic Sunset down to a solution by themselves, which will fail spectacularly because they don't know Sunset as a person. Chip needs someone who knows Sunset. Chip had six of these people, and one just got captured.
They're not badly written, just have a huge flaw that will doom their role as Sunset's "teacher" in this world.
Oh yeah, I heard of it, just not called steel-man. The name suits it.
But once again, Cadence doesn't know Sunset. Any of Sunset's friends would've told her that Sunset wouldn't use someone's death as a con to escape Chip. Or that she wouldn't sulk at the loss of lives and one of her friends being captured.
That's the thing. It isn't the least worst option for Sunset.
From her perspective, the answer to that first question is simple; Starlight.
Magic is returning, yeah, but Sunset has no idea how to deal with it, doesn't have her friends, and has basically zero cooperation from the only thing that would come close to help with the issue. Staying with the government is time spending on the promise of a solution to a problem that isn't immediate, and that even if it worked, may even be for nothing.
Instead, going for Starlight would be a solution to an immediate problem that has already claimed lives, free more troops for the fight against the return of magic, bring back the elements to full force, and if done quickly and effectively, still leave time to deal with the government.
Doesn't mean that it'll work, but considering the odds, for Sunset, one option is clearly more worth pursuing.
Good luck getting her to cooperate after that by the way.
And this is the problem with Cadence's approach.
You can tell Sunset that her going with Shinning will get people killed, and Sunset will point you to the 25 bodies and say the same to you about staying. Sunset stayed and people got killed because of her inaction, so she won't stay put any more.
Cadence and Chip can wave the flag of "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few", but unless they can back up their claims, they'll fail.
Sunset said it right there, if Cadence will knock her out to make her stay and obey their needs, they're her enemy.
Also, about the intervention thing; As someone who has been sent to a lot of professionals due to a bunch of unresolved trauma over years of my life, interventions like the ones Cadence and Chip are doing don't work.
10920991
Sorry to hear that. Hope you're doing better now, for what it's worth. And thank you for all your responses; they've given me a lot to think about.
10921735
I'm doing much better now, don't worry, and I enjoy this type of discussions, specially with this kind of story.
I''m waiting to see what next chapter brings us.
If this is crossing over with another fanfic, then there should be a crossover tag. Why isn't there one?
10928286
? It's part of a continuity, as indicated in the long description, but it's not a crossover. At what points does it seem to be?
.......
What?
10928370
How bad/unrealistic was it, if you don't mind me asking?
10928375
I don't know. This is the most legitimate "I'm not mad I'm just confused" I've ever been.
I honestly don't know what you're trying to do here.
I was going to praise you for finding a way to bypass the trust issue by Cadence having the guts to put herself in the line, but then you started calling what they do the objectively correct choice. If the narrative itself calls one option objectively correct, there's clearly not a discussion to be had here, to which I completely disagree.
Then Sunset's thing... I don't even know.
What was the point of this? That's honestly my biggest question.
If you're already proving that Sunset's in the wrong, and that the only option is that she helps Chip and Radiance, why add the death of her family to the mix? Why add more things to be wrong about? How has Sunset been stable until now, if she's so easily driven to murder? Why does she apparently have so much pull in this weird government yet she's basically useless to anybody? Why is Cadence the one digging these wounds instead of someone that has an actual connection to Sunset?
Why is Sunset's loss only a problem when it comes to her defiance of the government plan?
I hate to say it, but this story is making me dislike Sunset. I think I can maybe see what you're trying to do, but 10928424 raises some very crucial points. Maybe I'm just projecting my own expectations of rationality onto Bacon Horse, IDK.
10928540
Honestly, with the threats Sunset makes, and Cadence doing the "heroic sacrifice", even copying the empathy powers, Sunset's basically the villain here.
I could understand the "hidden trauma" causing her to go against Chip and Cadence but she seems to have gone a whole other level here. I can't imagine Sunset outside of her demon form saying those words.
Okay. I can see where Sunset's coming from to a degree. The concept of her being Death's nemesis was her key coping mechanism since the flood and she's believed it for so long that it's become a foundational part of her identity. Naturally, she does not respond well to trying to have that disproven. So maybe Cadence could have tried changing tack after the first psychic assault?
I can understand Cadence wanting to help Sunset heal from this long-term trauma, but maybe she could've waited until after the crisis for which Sunset is a linchpin? Focus on helping her see the good she's doing for now, help her see how she can best save everyone, then delve into the whys when the girl's a bit better disposed toward her. Or, as Beholder noted, call in her friends for backup. Or consultation. Delving into her records might feel a bit less invasive if her friends were there trying to help her help herself.
Yeah, this definitely could have gone better on virtually every level. And I still think Sunset has a legitimate reason to be frustrated and build ambiguous doomsday devices. I don't expect her to solve everything on her own, but some emergency powers would not be out of the question given the circumstances. The girl is clearly not going to play the game, and no one's letting her save the arena. Is it really so surprising that she's playing by her own rules?
Suffice to say, I'm really not sure how Cadence thought assaulting, kidnapping, and imprisoning Sunset for the sake of a therapy session would go.
10928424
First off, thank you for the comment regarding Cadance putting herself on the line.
Second, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you specifically meant by "what they do." If it's about Cadance, as 10928736 so brilliantly put it, "assaulting, kidnapping, and interrogating Sunset," she herself would agree; Cadance didn't want to do all that to Sunset, but she felt she had to before she did something she would later regret. Cadance, as she herself admitted, is imperfect, and chose what she, in the heat of the moment, thought was the least worst option. If it's about what Cadance is trying to convince Sunset to do, however, i.e., stay in the capitol instead of go with Shiny, there are two main reasons for why I seem to be putting my thumb on the scale; first, my personal interest in economics makes it so that, to my eyes, any good that Sunset does in the capitol, no matter how small, is something that no other actor present could do, making Homestria (and, as Cadance points out, indirectly Sunset's friends) relatively better off by having her stay there instead of marching off with Shiny. Second, the narrative that I had planned out had Sunset stay in the capitol; until you got me to start thinking about it, I wasn't even sure the narrative could survive Sunset going with Shiny. You are right, there is a legitimate discussion to be had here, but my plan didn't allow me to see that (even Cady could see it before I did; like she said, she thinks there are good reasons for Sunset to stay in Castellot, but she doesn't know enough to make that decision).
The problem isn't that Sunset's wrong, it's that the trauma of her parents' deaths is clouding her reasoning; like Cadance said, going with Shiny might be objectively the best choice, but at the moment Sunset is not thinking objectively. By assigning undue meaning to her parents' and uncle's deaths, Sunset has effectively constructed a worldview where she is the arch-enemy of Death, a status that simultaneously grants her great power (she can defy Death where others would fall to him) and great responsibility (she has a duty to save as many people from Death as she can). This messiah complex is corrupting her reasoning, providing her with false information that gives going with Shiny undue weight in her considerations. Now, going with Shiny might end up being the correct course of action, but whether it is or not must be objectively determined without the subjective influence of Sunset's messiah complex.
And Sunset's murder of Cadance wasn't easy; Cadance was attacking a fundamental pillar of Sunset's worldview, one of the cornerstones of her sense of identity. When faced with such a challenge, I could think of only two possible reactions; either break down as your perspective of the world, of yourself, crashes down around you, or fight back in an attempt to preserve it, to preserve yourself. Sunset is not, by nature, a griever, and so when Cadance pushed against what she viewed as one of the foundations of her identity, Sunset pushed back. Sunset didn't murder Cadance because she was asking uncomfortable questions (as Chip and Shiny discovered, she simply gets angry then, just like many of us would), she murdered her in what seemed self-defense, protecting her innermost self against the intruder trying to destroy it.
Regarding Sunset's influence in the government, it's mainly confined to the Bureau of Science, which is primarily a research/advisory body; the Senate determines actual policy, and there Sunset's reach is much lesser. In the Bureau Sunset can test and teach, but if she wants to actually institute policy changes she has to go through the Senate. Her teachings have, as Cadance reported, done a lot of good, but they're not as impactful (and crucially, for Sunset's current mindset, direct and visible) as actual policies would be.
As for why it's Cadance doing this, not one of Sunset's friends, Shining thought that her empathy and training as a counselor would allow her to fare better than Pinkie Pie or Twilight. She also had at least a bit of a prior relationship with Sunset, if only because she saved her ladybug at the Friendship Games, dimming the fear of the person he sends to check up on Sunset knowing nothing about her. Primarily, though, it was simply because she was the first person he thought of asking.
Shiny called Cadance in before they knew that Sunset was planning to sneak away with him, though I admit I could make this a bit clearer; like Cadance said, she anticipated helping Sunset with her past, something which Chip and Radiance had been investigating since Ms. Shimmer Goes to Castellot. They hadn't confronted her about it, not because they didn't care so long as she did what they wanted, but because they wanted to gather as much data as they could beforehand; when Sunset exploded at Shiny after the Riot, they decided that they couldn't wait any longer and called Cady in.
And, while their reasons for helping her aren't entirely altruistic, Chip, Radiance, Shiny, and Cady don't only want to help her so that she can work better; all of them held affection for her, for various reasons (Chip and Radiance out of compassion for the new kid, Shiny and Cady for saving Twilight), and none of them liked seeing her in pain. Like Cadance said, even if nothing was going on, she would still want to help Sunset heal because she cares for her, and the others would agree.
Hopefully this helps clear some of that confusion up. If it changes to, "I'm not confused, I'm mad," please let me know why so I can see about fixing whatever it is; your comments have been nothing but insightful and helpful for me, especially when they've been criticisms.
10928951
Wait, Cadance is dead?!
10928956
I thought she was the murder you were talking about. I mean, the end of the chapter doesn't bode well...
10928540
Sunset is acting rationally, at least from her point of view; as she said last chapter, either you're with her or against her, and Cadance stands against her, against the enemy of Death, here. And, in her stand, Cadance attacks one of the foundations of her identity, her self-conception as the hated enemy of Death as opposed to the victim of random chance; faced with such an assault, either grief or rage would be a logical reaction, and Sunset isn't a griever.
10928951
Ok, with a bit more clarity
The narrative is unsubtle and apologetically on Chip's and Cadence's side. "What they do" meaning digging into her past without permission, kidnapping, forcing her to chose their side of the argument, is always justified or excused one way or another. On the other side, Sunset gets no favor to her arguments, she's either wrong, doesn't know better, or her past fucks with her to the point of menace and apparently murder now.
That's why there's no discussion here. Sunset's the villain of this arc because none of her actions get any foundation to work or be supported while Chip and Cadence get to be the heroic saviors of the girl that can save the world.
Politics by many means sounds ironic when there's only one "non-evil" option.
And what angers and confuses me is why waste Sunset's loss of her family in this? In a discussion that from the start was decided that Sunset would lose regardless.
About Sunset's trauma itself, I don't know how survivors guilt works so this could be considered possible, but once again, despite their claims, Cadence's and Chip's actions to "help" sounds like the worse ever possible. Every thing Cadence says to try and calm Sunset at the end sounds wrong and not what anyone with therapeutic knowledge would try. Therapy doesn't work like this.
Cadence and Chip pushing Sunset to face her trauma right at this moment is also the worst possible decision they can make.
I'll reiterate, neither knows a thing about Sunset, no matter how good their intentions are. My mother had good intentions when she raised me and my brothers but we all ended up suffering for it and most of us hate her in one way or another.
Let me rephrase this one.
Why has this mayor trauma only been a problem for Sunset now. Why is only Chip, and not Celestia, Twilight, or Sunset's friends, the one who has noticed this? Knowing who all of these people are, it doesn't make sense for me.
10928969
I meant the threat she gave Cadence at the start.
And if you just made Sunset a murderer, no matter what excuse or justification you give, then this whole arc is done.
10928736
Okay, first off, Ambiguous Doomsday Devices sounds like a great name for a band.
Second... yeah, pretty much no one comes out of this looking good. Sunset's overreaction (blasting someone's mind to pieces is disproportionate to them talking to you) to Cadance's mistakes (I can't think of a good reason why she didn't change tactics after the first blast), Razzaroo standing by and watching Cadance, as you so brilliantly put it, "assaulting, kidnapping, and imprisoning Sunset for the sake of a therapy session..." Everyone made mistakes here, some bigger than others (Reading through all the comments, Cady, Shiny, or someone really should have gotten at least one of the Rainbooms involved).
However, to my mind, Cadance confronting Sunset's trauma was not one of them; showing her the good she was doing and how she could do the most good would help, yes, but it wouldn't solve the root problem, which is that Sunset's mindset of "I'm the defier of Death, I need to fight him and save as many people as I can" is driving her to self-destructive actions. Like you said earlier, she has problems with delegation, making this even worse; instead of authorizing someone else to fight Death in the field while she focuses on strategy, she has to be the one in the fray, the hero, leaving strategy unattended. If Cadance had simply shown her the good she was doing and how she could do the most good, Sunset might agree (or maybe not, "assaulting, kidnapping, and imprisoning" someone tends to leave a sour taste in their mouth), but when the next crisis comes, the heroic instinct in her will flare up again, possibly requiring another intervention by Cadance. Not because Sunset simply dismisses her duties, or because she's eager to break faith with Cadance, but because "this time is different," this time she needs to take the field. Cadance needs to stop the self-destructive behaviors at their source, not one by one as they come.
Agreed across the board. There's a reason they're called emergency powers; they're powers that are granted in an emergency, something which the situation rapidly seems to be devolving into.
10928981
That could be reasonably construed as either an empty threat, meant only to intimidate Cadance, or something said in a moment of anger (perhaps aggravated by what had been done to her beforehand, i.e., the assaulting, kidnapping, and imprisoning) that would be looked back on in horror as soon as rationality reasserted itself.
I must respectfully disagree, for two main reasons:
1. Cadance isn't completely "dead" and she isn't going to stay that way for long.
2. Even if Sunset did kill her (something which, due to the circumstances, I would say would be more likely to be judged manslaughter than murder), that wouldn't need to be the end of Sunset's arc; it would change it, almost completely, but it wouldn't end it. It's possible for a character to do something morally repugnant and embark on a new arc of degradation (Tyrion Lannister in A Dance with Dragons) or try to make up for it and embark on a redemptive arc (Boromir after trying to steal the One Ring in The Fellowship of the Ring). It would certainly complicate Sunset's arc, and make it much harder to see her as a hero, but it wouldn't be the end of her arc.
10929033
I have to ask again, what is the point of this arc?
"Sunset makes her choices" Cadence and Chip have stopped her from taking any choices other than what they need. Her trauma is just used to justify their intervention and convince her to "do the objectively right thing". And now that she has almost murdered someone, she'll be even more mentally distraught and unable to function properly.
I don't see any good outcome out of this, and it's because of Cadence and Chip that it's happening.
They're the ones that brought up this problem in the narrative, and the ones that are make it worse with every action they take.
10929033
I await said reassertion of rationality with bated breath.
Congratulations Cadence, you got what you wanted by some miracle of chance.
I feel bad for Sunset.
If nothing else, I have to admire Cadence's sheer chutzpah. Get your psyche shredded down to the core of your being, piece yourself back together, and the moment you're back in meatspace, immediately pick up the argument that got you mind-blasted in the first place.
In any case, it is good to see Sunset got a wake-up call. She may be a protagonist in all of this, but she's not the only one. The Rogue of Doom is in a different continuity. This one needs to focus on what she can achieve through her own action rather than a preordained destiny. That's what got her in this mess in the technicolor monkey world in the first place.
That said, there is still the question of what the local political machinery will allow her to achieve. We'll see what she can do in time. And if she'll ever need to take apart another mind.
10933369
Get ready to feel bad for yourself; what I plan to be the last chapter for this fic isn't substantially different, so if you like reading good stories my advice would be stop tracking this and treat any updates you see like the plague.
I suppose this fic could be considered experimental, me trying my hand at writing a more emotionally driven piece. And, just like Sunset's first experiments at studying Homestrian magic, it ended up blowing up in my face. I thank you for the lessons you've helped me learn from this, and hope to apply them in future.
10933374
Like Cadance said, it wasn't the argument specifically that triggered Sunset, it was the threat to her identity. To Sunset's eyes, Cadance was a threat, triggering her fight or flight reflex, and since flight wasn't an option, she simply used her magic to... remove the threat. It is pretty impressive of her to go back to arguing right after getting her psyche torn to shreds, though.
That we shall.
I'd rather not see, just because of how much it would traumatize her, but we shall have to see.
10933389
You misunderstand my intentions. If I didn't like this story, I wouldn't comment in the first place, in fact the more I like something the harsher I critic it (Sometimes overly so, and I apologize). I am fully invested in this narrative and want to see how things play out at the end, even if I don't personally like it.
As for your experiment, let me give you an objective view.
I believe I have a better understanding of what you were going for in this, and I'll say you had the right idea, the problem I believe, was in execution.
We have two parties in this story; Sunset, and Cadence/Chip. Both parties clash in a different set of priorities when it comes to solving a very complex problem. This is all well and good, even if the answer comes to be that Cadence/chip are in the right.
The problem is that the story doesn't leave any room for a real discussion.
Your own opinions bled too much into the narrative, causing that Sunset's side had no positive arguments. It's almost hammered into us that Sunset's actions are the wrong ones, and the inclusion of trauma as a way to claim that her reasoning are just built on a wrong emotional state only furthers this unfair disadvantage she has to her own claims and even core personality.
On the other side, Cadence/Chip have all the advantages. It was by sheer cosmological luck that Cadence's attempt at "helping" Sunset didn't end horribly. And even Chips clear invasion of privacy and Cadence's assault and kidnapping are side-stepped of all wrongdoing as just them wanting to help Sunset.
This clear favoritism tarnishes the intention of the story, making it seem a lot more artificial and thus leading to a less positive response. It also gives me the feeling that Sunset's getting her personality slowly and forcibly rewritten to fit her role as inactive helper.
As for the glaring problems, Cadence's methods of "helping" are wrong at best and horrible at worst. The story paints her as a self-sacrificing savior despite that she doesn't know what she's doing and only achieves victory out of contrived luck.
I can accept that Sunset decides her role in this story is a secretary, and that Cadence and Chip were always right about everything, but I would've probably have accepted it in better terms if the story had handled the whole discussion in a better way.
10933415
Ah, I see. Thank you, and don't worry, you weren't too harsh at all.
10933374
Regarding the former, I'm hoping that the imminent incursions of Unseelie and other eldritch phenomena will be a sufficient lubricant for said machinery. As to the latter, I'd rather leave that particular Chekhov's Gun unfired, not least because I doubt the legal and medical establishments would be able to handle such an eventuality.
No. Oh, please no. Sunset, PLEASE tell me you're not about to say what I think you're about to say. You are not seriously about to suggest removing the magic of an entire world, are you? PLEASE tell me I'm wrong.
10942031
I mean, if the problem is magic returning to the world, this would be the most straightforward solution.
10942031
I can't tell you that, sadly. What I can tell you, and hope that you can draw comfort from, is that Sunset also suggested that Princess Celestia make her a princess in the past, a suggestion that wasn't heeded. Whether this one will be treated likewise remains to be seen.
10942050
The problem, as I understand it, isn't that magic is "returning" so much as it is "waking up." The magical creatures were still there, just hidden in the shadows, or secreted away in their own little realms. And I think it's important to remember, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE MALICIOUS. If you just forcibly remove ALL the magic from the world, you are very much throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Maybe I'm an idealistic fool, but there has GOT to be a better solution.
Must say, I still find your choice of chapter and story titling curious. May I inquire on them?
10942237
I don't think Sunset would just pull the kill-switch as a first option. I believe she's preparing for a worst case scenario. If magic returning or "waking up" becomes too much to handle, throwing the entire bathroom through the window may be the option that saves more people at the end of the day.
10944629
On a deeper level, it was because I wanted this to show the different methods the main characters in Castellot use to execute their plans, from Sunset's constant driving to Cadance's caring and talking. Politics by Force was chosen because both the main characters attempt to use force to get their way (Sunset's "either you're with me or against me" stance clearly warning of resistance, perhaps physical resistance, if defiance of her continues), Politics by Archaeology was chosen because it was primarily concerned with unearthing the past, Politics by Mercy was chosen because Cadance's mercy and care for Sunset were (at least meant to be) the main focus, and Politics by Will was chosen because... well, I actually can't really remember.
Of course! Mainly, I thought they sounded cool.
Overall, I'd say that this story fell flat, what I was hoping to be a major point in Sunset's arc turning out to be more memorable to me for the comments section. The problem is, like you said, there's no actual interrogation of character going on; it's just a constant stream of "Sunset's wrong," followed by an explanation of why. And Sunset... well, she really doesn't do anything. All her actions are, ironically in light of her backstory, reactions, the aftereffects of one of the other character's actions. While there are some points that I'm quite happy with (the flashback to Sunset almost drowning, Cadance's quotes near the end of Politics by Archaeology), this really hasn't turned out to be what I'd hoped I could make it.
10944651
I have to agree, but as I mentioned before, the idea and resolution are very good, it's just a failed execution. I personally don't like the idea of Sunset being just a mentor, I believe she can do much more than just that (not going after Starlight necessarily, that's still better in the hands of Shinning) but I can see why she comes to that conclusion at the end. What I do think is a problem in the story are Cadance's actions. Her handling of Sunset's emotional problems are very problematic and really shouldn't have worked the way they did, and the story treats them as the good option at the end.
I think this story could get a rewrite, keeping the message, ending, and pacing but with a better handling of the discussion. But that's just my view of it, and is obviously up to you.
I believe that's been the audience's concern as well, yes.
So she has a stacked workload?
"Kind of a running theme for me, much as I wish it weren't."
"That was an issue?" asks a pegasus from the Cloudsdale weather factory's lightning department.
Ah. And indeed, Equestrian input got Sunset most of the way there.
That may be the most concerning part of this whole chapter.
And yeah, I too hope Sunset isn't proposing some kind of antimagic nuclear option. Trying to stop the rising tide won't do anyone any favors, Sunny.
In all, this could've gone better on every level, but it was still an intriguing journey and important point in this Sunset's life. We'll see how events proceed from here.
10949666
Yeah, the only reason Cadance managed to get through to Sunset was the author putting a lead bar on the side of the scales they wanted to go down.
Nah, she has an inventory of work hours. Under LIFO/FILO accounting systems, sales or reductions in the account are assumed to be of the latest inputs (i.e., if you have an inventory of 50 $13 widgets, buy 20 $15 widgets, then sell 20 widgets, the total cost will be calculated based on the latest purchases, in this case the $15 widgets, giving a total cost of goods sold [COGS] of $300) working backwards to the earliest (First) ones. Interesting that LIFO and FIFO seem to have ported over to computer science, though.
But we love you for it, Sunny; you show us that it doesn't matter if we mess up, what matters is if we pick ourselves back up again.
In the same vein that heat's an issue in computer design; something you have to plan for, but not that debilitating. Sunset's colleagues were just making it seem worse than it was due to their incomplete understanding of magic's interaction with the other fundamental forces.
Pinkie not showing up to make sure someone knows that breaking a Pinkie Promise is the quickest way to lose a friend-
Pinkie Pie: FOREVER!
Yes, thank you, Pinkie. Her not showing up to tell someone that? Something's wrong.
No, it won't, but does simply letting it rise do any good, either? Magic allowed the Sirens to come within a hairsbreadth of conquering the world, almost destroyed the world by driving Twilight mad, drove Gloriosa mad... And those were just isolated instances; what would a human world saturated with magic look like? What would one completely devoid of magic look like? What options does Sunset have left?
That we shall.