3. Who We Are
Fluttershy lands at the Boutique's doorstep silently and pushes open the door. She walks in and crouches down again, prompting me to dismount. I hop off her, being careful not to bump her wings. "Thanks," I say quietly.
"You're welcome."
I look deeper inside the Boutique and let my eyes adjust. The lights are off, just like before, but the weather has the interior look even darker. And sitting in the same place I saw her last is her.
As if for verification, I glance towards Fluttershy. She looks on and points her chin towards Rarity. "Go to her, Spike. She needs you," she whispers.
I look back and walk up to her slowly. She's still sitting on the same cushion, but her back is turned, head hanging down. The tea set has been put away and in its place is the vase of flowers I brought earlier today and a small pile of well-used tissues, many stained gray and black from her makeup. She's otherwise motionless. I would think that she were napping were it not for the occasional sniffles I hear from her and the twitches from her shoulders.
"Rarity," I say, phrasing it as neither a question nor accusation.
Her ears perk up at the sound, and she turns her head to the side to look at me. As if I needed any more confirmation that she was crying, the whites of her eyes are pink, her eyes are moist, and the makeup around it is not nearly so perfect as it normally is. "Good day, Spike," she says. But despite the prim and proper greeting, her voice is anything but proper. It's normally so confident and lyrical, but now it's weak and defeated, like it could break to silence and whimpering at any moment. She's even quieter than Fluttershy usually is.
It all casts an image of a Rarity very different from any Rarity I knew. Whether it be from the old Rarity I was friends with, to the new one who lied about our relationship, even to the dramatic one who liked ice cream a lot, I don't see any of them now. This one is just miserable.
Some part of me feels the urge to hug and comfort her and get her back to where she should be, but another part feels some perverse satisfaction that she's suffering right now, just as she caused so much suffering in me. At the very least, I feel a little bit better that she's feeling bad about what she said to me.
"Why were you crying?" I ask simply.
"Because I fear that I may have just lost one of my dearest friends," she says in a voice heavy and hoarse with emotion. Rarity sniffles again and levitates over a fresh tissue, dabbing it at her eyes.
I sigh. "Yeah," I say, pushing a cushion right next to hers. I sit down on it, my back to hers, so we don't touch and don't look at each other. "Me too."
We sit in silence for a long time, it only interrupted as Rarity sniffles again and uses up another tissue. Neither of us seem particularly willing to talk. Meanwhile, Fluttershy walks to other side of the table and sits on her own cushion, observing us silently with a sad and pensive expression.
Eventually, I say one word: "Why?"
I don't need to explain to Rarity what I'm referring to; she already knows. She sighs. "There are just . . . just so many conflicting reasons that it would take hours to explain, even to myself."
"I'm not going anywhere," I respond, even though just minutes earlier, I didn't even want to come. I want to hear what she has to say, and Fluttershy would be very upset with me if I left now.
She pauses. "I don't know how to begin, and I don't know how I can tell you any of this without you getting even more angry at me. But—" she sniffles again "—you deserve the truth. As far as I know it to be."
"Yeah," I say simply.
The silence grows longer. When Rarity speaks again, her words are halting and bitter.
"Why, you ask. Why did I remain silent? Why did I neither shut you down nor entertain your advances?" It sounds like she's explaining this to me and herself. She keeps going. "I thought it was a crush. You said it was as much yourself. An infatuation of passion and thoughtlessness, a fire that seems to roar brightly but is quick to extinguish itself as time washes over it. Oh, I had plenty of them in my youth and perhaps my not-so-youth. You, looking at me—I thought it was no different."
Rarity has a special talent in dressing up her words, I know. But I've been around her long enough to understand what she's saying. I growl, the roaring anger I had before rekindling. But when I see the smoke come out of my nostrils, I feel a hoof on my shoulder. Fluttershy's hoof. She looks at me again with the eyes that speak: Faith, she says.
I try to suppress my anger. "Is that what you think now?" I say, tone controlled and my temper in check. "That it was just a petty crush and that I'd get over it?"
"No, no, not at all," she says quickly. She continues in a quieter voice. "Not after what I saw today. The strong and always-helpful Spike, normally such a gentleman, thrown into a terrible rage I'd never seen him in before because I couldn't respect the depth of feelings he had for me." Rarity scoffs self-deprecatingly. "Foolish of me."
I snort. At least she understands that part now. "I don't know what part of having dreams of you and getting a plush of you and doing anything for you says 'petty crush' to me. Why didn't you tell me that it wouldn't work? Why didn't you just tell me you weren't interested instead of letting me think I had a chance?"
"Darling," she starts, the first use of that word I've heard in a while, "I just did, this afternoon. I feared what you would think of me and how you would react, hence why I held my tongue until now."
I can feel my hackles rising again at the fact she still delayed for so long, but I feel Fluttershy's phantom touch too. Maybe she was right in feeling concerned—considering, well, today. "But holding your tongue until you found someone else?"
"Of course, in hindsight, I would have liked to bring it up sooner. But just as youthful crushes might be fleeting, they're nice to have, at least for a little while. Young love is passionate and wonderful, even if it does—er, would normally—not last very long. Surely, the pining after me and the dreams you might have had gave you some amount of happiness?"
I grunt, not wanting to acknowledge that she's right. Maybe so, but it's only real happiness if you actually have a chance.
She coughs. "And you're very, well, cute when you show up with flowers and act the smitten gentleman. I thought it crueler to end your crush prematurely and shatter those dreams than to let it continue and dissipate on its own."
Cute? I read what she doesn't say. I didn't just show up with flowers: I kissed her hooves—sometimes literally—and did her favors, no matter how icky and distasteful they were. She thought that was cute too? Leading me on to win favors while knowing nothing would come of it, that's cruel. "Cute and useful?"
She takes in a breath as if to speak, but lets it out in a sigh.
"You can't just do that and expect me to be okay with it, Rarity," I growl, turning around, ready to tirade about my love lost, the things I've done for her, the things I could have been—
She interjects. "I know, I know, I know a thousand times. I've made horrible mistakes, Spike. I know I should have told you the truth. I can't defend my choices, only explain why I did what I did. My suppositions are not your experience, and I should have taken your feelings more seriously." Rarity turns around then, looking at me for the first time in a long time. She takes the words from my mouth even now, saying her own instead. "I am sorry, Spike. I am sorry I manipulated you. I am sorry I treated your feelings as I would a childhood crush. I am sorry I assumed the problem would solve itself if I just ignored it for a little longer."
Every acidic retort on my tongue dies at that—there's nothing for me to argue against. Rarity is really proud most of the time; she doesn't apologize that often, and never like this. She's doing it right now, admitting that she did me wrong and apologizing for it. Now is the time that I should . . . forgive her?
I don't know if I can. If it was just an everyday mistake of miscommunication, it would be easy to forgive. But not when my love is on the line. Rarity embodies all the love I ever poured at anyone ever, and I can't just let go of that after one apology. There's years of real hopes and dreams and feelings hung up in that love. It's hard to forgive when she takes all that away from me.
There's an impossible dream that shows me and her together—forbidden now—but there's still a part of me that wants it and won't let go. I try and test my luck with what could have been and look her in the eyes. Those beautiful, blue eyes. "Rarity, why is it that you don't want me?"
It's a question I never asked before. But once I say it, Rarity stiffens up and immediately looks away. Even Fluttershy lets out a tiny gasp I can hear.
"Spike," Rarity says in a voice tense and strangled, barely looking at me, "please understand that I am close to Twilight's age, and she could very well pose as your mother. It doesn't matter what I feel; I will not entertain your advances while you are still young and growing and learning about yourself and your interests. It's okay that you should want it, but I will not."
Does that mean she actually wants it, though? "But, but," I press on, "what do you think of me as?"
"I think of you as a young and courageous—"
"No, not that. You know, as, like, romantically."
". . . I can't answer that question, Spike."
"Is it because I'm too young that it won't work, or that you just don't like me? Because I'm growing now, Rarity!"
"Spike!" she cries, distressed. "I don't know! If you were older, things might—might!—have been different, but you are young now, and I've not even considered the possibility because of that. I know that you want me, and that is fine, but I will not reciprocate your feelings. And even as you grow, I am afraid that things will not change anymore. My heart belongs to Fluttershy."
"But—"
"Please do not ask me that question again!"
I've subconsciously scooted myself away from her, shocked at how strongly she said that. But it's just not—
"Spike."
I want to say more, but Fluttershy interrupts my thoughts. She's been so quiet this entire time. But her single word commands me to meet my eyes to her melancholy ones.
"Spike," she starts again, "I know how it feels to be excluded. How it feels so unfair that because of some rules, you can't have what you want. That maybe, just maybe, if the world was a little different, your dream would have come true. You feel like you missed your chance. Some things aren't meant to be, but you're powerless to change it.
"I've been there, Spike. You might not know, but I've wanted Rarity just like you for as long as you have. Maybe even longer. But I never said anything, and I never acted on it because I thought it was impossible that Rarity could ever have eyes for a mare, or ever have eyes for somepony like me. She wasn't interested, and anything I felt was just something else that wasn't meant to be."
Once again, there aren't any words I can say to that; she explained perfectly the feelings and misgivings I have but haven't given voice to. Fluttershy is where I want to be, yet it seems she's been where I am too. She understands me so well.
"It's miserable, loving somepony whom you know can never love you back, and you couldn't have done anything different to change it. I know how much it hurts." Fluttershy moves her eyes to Rarity. "I . . . still don't entirely know why she chose me at all."
"Sweetheart," Rarity whispers, looking back. "It's because friendship knows no bounds, and even in friendship, you've—"
"Let me finish, Rarity, please. Spike doesn't need to hear that."
Fluttershy's voice is quiet but powerful. Her words are more than enough to silence even her girlfriend, and Rarity only looks on in awe. I do too, again reminded of how much strength Fluttershy has when she's not overcome by fear or timidity. And it's touching that she's still looking after me, even now.
She turns back to me and continues. "But where we can't have our dreams and desires, we always have friendship. I'm Rarity's friend first, just like I'm your friend first, and I can't stand my friends getting hurt. Just because something won't go your way doesn't mean you're not their friend anymore. I want Rarity to be happy, and I've always wanted her to be happy—whether we were marefriends or not. That's why I never told her about my feelings; I wanted her, but I knew telling her would upset her. She . . . she figured it out herself." She glances at Rarity again, still silent, and looks back. "And I want you to be happy. Isn't Rarity your friend too?"
I don't know how to answer. It's a harder question than it has to be because just moments before, I was questioning whether she really was. Rarity was worried she'd lose me as a friend, and I was worried for the same. But she did apologize for what she did. If she really didn't care, and if our entire relationship was built on her manipulations, she wouldn't have been weeping about me. There is real friendship, and she cares about me. I am her friend. And I want to forgive her.
But admitting she's also my friend means accepting what Fluttershy said friends are supposed to do: care for each other unconditionally and strive to never cause them pain and distress. Admitting Rarity is my friend again means accepting that her heart is taken, and I can't take it back. Because asking for that—dreaming for that—isn't caring at all and is causing them pain. Both of them. It's challenging Rarity to let go of Fluttershy for me. Their relationship won't be at rest, and Rarity won't be happy for as long as I won't let go. It's okay for me to have my hand on her heart; that's what Rarity said. But I can't pull.
Friendship can be so hard sometimes. I've learned all of Twilight's friendship lessons right alongside her, but this is the hardest one I've ever had to learn.
Fluttershy is looking at me with that same sad look. I'm sure she knows what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. She understands me, and she cares because I'm her friend. She's cared for me so much today already. But she's still challenging me to put my wants aside and do the right thing instead. I know that if I say "no"—that I'm not Rarity's friend anymore and can't accept caring for her when she will never reciprocate my feelings—I won't be Fluttershy's friend anymore, either. She'll be so disappointed in me, and she'll follow where her girlfriend goes. Away. The threat of losing her is almost as dire as losing Rarity.
And Rarity . . . She's only half looking at me. She glances at me for a moment before fixing her gaze on the floor. She looks scared—scared that she might lose one of her dearest friends, like she said. I don't want to lose her either. Fluttershy was right again: This is the old Rarity, the real Rarity. The one who genuinely cares for me, even when she makes mistakes. And the one I care for . . . whether there's romance or not.
I look down at the floor too. "Yeah," I whisper. The relationship I've always wanted is well and truly lost; I can't help but start weeping for it all over again.
A great rush of warmth quickly envelops me, followed by a voice I've loved and still love now. "Oh, Spike," she says, the heaviness in her voice telling me that she's weeping too. "Thank you."
I open my arms and hug her back. Not as a boyfriend—just a friend. Her hugs are still just as good as they ever were.
I feel another rush of warmth as Fluttershy embraces me from behind with her hooves and wraps up both of us in her wings.
I know I should hate her for a lot of reasons. She's why everything is unfair. But for so many more, I don't. She came after me after I got angry because she cared for me. She understood better than anyone else how it feels to care even when it hurts. And she did exactly what she said she would: she brought our family together. It takes a special pony to do all of that . . . just like it takes a special pony to deserve someone like Rarity. Of course I don't hate her.
"Fluttershy?" I ask in a quiet, heavy voice.
"Yes?" she responds just as quietly.
I sigh, exhaling all the fantasies I hung on to for so long. I'll never have a chance—or shadow of a chance—again. Of course it's not what I wanted, but it's not what I can wish for. I care for them. They're both my friends.
And . . . they make a good pair.
I can only manage to whisper, "Just . . . be good to her."
I hear a tiny gasp as she redoubles her hug and nuzzles my cheek. "I will, Spike. I will."
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This ending is pretty much what I expected, for better or worse. It's all very sensible and rational, and the ending is basically ideal, under the circumstances.
Which is why it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There was no tension here, because Spike was always going to make the "right" choice, and let things return to the status quo.
8647631
Well, sure. Because he's Spike, he's not going to abandon his friends and go off into a cave and become a hermit. He's not going to spend the rest of his days hurting because things didn't go well for him.
A lot of what makes Spike Spike is conquering basic instincts. Rarity was a potential mate. When your mating right is challenged, it causes rage, and the instinct is to fight for your right. But, Spike also has pony sensibilities. He knew, empirically, that he might lose Rarity to any number of stallions.
He just didn't realize it might be a mare instead, and a good friend as well.
A stallion he could have safely resented for all time. Not so Fluttershy. A stallion he probably might have literally fought for dominance. It might have inspired an unnatural growth in him.
But ultimately, yes, these are friends who will, given time, forgive one another. It's part of why I enjoy fanfiction.
8647658
I never wanted, nor expected, Spike to simply become spiteful and bitter. There was never any real question that he would forgive Rarity, or that he would resist hating Fluttershy. But the resolution feels very simplistic and mechanical. It boils a complex issue down to a simply yes or no question, where the answer is treated as a given.
I guess my main issue is that the perceived slights (the primal instinct that you referred to) is given far more weight than the actual slights (Rarity's self-serving manipulations and general dismissiveness). The pivotal question, whether to remain friends, has everything to do with the latter, which in turn is kind of brushed off.
8647752
I get that, but at the same time... Rarity had good intentions, and derped. Add that to the fact that forgiveness is hardwired into the pony brain (and thus at the very least very important to Spike too) and yes, the slights you're talking about are the less important issue. They happened, they should be apologized for, but not agonized over.
Remember, Fluttershy herself once shouted at the top of her lungs that Rarity and Pinkie's entire life's ambition was pointless. They got over it and went to go hug the sad out of her. That's how things work in Equestria.
8647658
Honestly great breakdown of it all. I agree with all you said about Spike and why it worked out the way it did. Does it still make me wish to see a bit of .... idk something with some real weight , I guess idk really lol. It just feel a bit that something was missing like it is 99% there but just missing alittle something to make me fully embrace this. Idk may I wasn't looking for the most clean ending and this felt like it all came together so nicely for everyone that any weight in it all I felt at the start really just eased off by the end. I am sure I am doing a poor job of explaining myself lol. I just want to say I agree with your points.
Somepony call an ambulence. Serious burns and broken hearts there.
I still feel incredibly sorry for Spike after reading this, and I can really feel his pain. It's too bad we couldn't throw him a bone at the end and set him up with somepony else, though I had a feeling this wouldn't be that kind of story.
I think the main reason I heavily sympathize with him, and why Rarity's eventual bluntness made me tense up, comes down to how much I identify with Spike as a character, especially in the context of this story. When there's something that we've always wanted so much, only to find out we can't get it, to say we don't take it well is an understatement. The only difference between Spike's situation and mine, is well, the situation. I've only had about one or two crushes, and they never materialized to much more than that when I realized I probably wouldn't have a chance with those girls. (And this was in high school, so the way I saw it, even if I did get into a relationship, we probably wouldn't see each other after our high school years.) I will say this though: had I been in the exact same situation as Spike, and I was rejected by the one girl I devoted myself to, I would have reacted the same way he did. (Which probably isn't the ideal way to react, but what can I say? It's a fault I will admit to.)
8647768
I reached a similar conclusion in Chapter 2. Initially, I thought that the story might explore the concept in more depth, so I was disappointed when it seemed to be moving towards a relatively simple, expected resolution. If nothing else, I was hoping for that more gradual improvement you mentioned, but we didn't really get to see it, in my opinion.
8647814
Well, try to remember this is part one of a trilogy. There is more story to be told here.
I usually try to avoid stories like this one, I really get into it. I have sympathized with Spike the most because he has always been the underdog, the fish out of the water, the smallest of the bunch that can make a big difference. I have to re-read the other chapters to notice something about this story, to cut this short, it reminded me of the moral of the original little mermaid story (Not Disney one). The moral was that you don't always get what you want, and that is true with this Spike, which most of us sympathize even more.
I have also sympathized with Fluttershy but more on the previous chapter than this one. I get this feeling in this chapter that she is trying to force Spike into forgiving Rarity especially when this happens
it felt like Rarity didn't really consider Spike feelings, especially since he came back and standing right there in all thanks to Fluttershy. But the thing that gets me is what Fluttershy says
I don't really think Fluttershy knows what actually means to be "excluded" or if she did Fluttershy should have clearly notice how she just describe most of Spike's life.
I can not and could not sympathize with Rarity at all on this chapter. She kept on either not saying the right words or trying to not give a straight answer. Anything that she tries to say was like a landmine that I was glad for Fluttershy to step in and try her best in saving what is currently left of their friendship but in all, it felt too forceful from Fluttershy in making Spike forgive Rarity.
I really like this story, I am glad I did not avoid it all.
8647872
And that's the saving grace of this ending because even though it meets the requirements of a resolution it doesn't feel like one. It feels almost as bad as the deus ex machina style most of the recent season finales have been handled with, a big build up with little payoff for the time. Especially considering that the entirety of time Spike has known and actively attempted to impress/pursue Rarity could be seen as part of the build up.
8647768
I'm gonna politely disagree with parts of that statement. The time Spike has spent seeking Rarity's love isn't something that can be easily overlooked. How many chances to be around others his age and to develop an understanding of those his own age has he lost? In the show we almost never see him around foals which is shown by his personality in how at times he can seem more mature mentally than some of the ponies and yet still fall back into childlike quirks. In all honesty the damage from being led on like this for so long is not something that can or should be so easily forgiven and don't try to say that's how things work in Equestria. The show has had many characters, even among the mane six, hold a grudge or be distraught for days or longer before getting over or forgiving others. The fact that there was almost no time for Spike to actually recover or come to terms with it not even a time lapse before being brought into a situation where he's effectively forced to accept it is even more damaging to him and any relationship he might get into later if ever.
In all honesty I prefer fics where Spike forgives ponies but this doesn't feel like he should forgive them or that they deserve it with the way it was handled. What bothered me the most was when Fluttershy compared her situation to his. Her situation was only similar in that she had feelings for Rarity for some time, in all other ways it was different. She effectively swooped in and with comparatively no effort got rewarded with what she wanted while he was left trying fruitlessly. That would not make anyone sympathetic to the situation in fact quite the opposite. The only remotely believable part is that Spike would back off because Rarity is happy with her. But for him to forgive like that in that situation tosses out all suspension of disbelief even with it being set in Equestria. Heck that actually makes it worse considering the reasons good ponies become villains. The redeeming factor is that this actually isn't the true end of the story but as a standalone it's pretty bad if not downright horrible for anyone who knows the context in which Spike is upset if they stop and think about it. The worst part of it is that it's easy to see multiple ways of things going sour after this while the characters stay in character. Since I have no idea how the next story shall progress I'll refrain from stating any of the ones that come to mind till after this series completes itself.
This is my opinion and perspective from what I see as an avid storyteller and reader trying to get inside the head of the characters empathically from what I know of them and the influences of the world around them. If you don't agree that's fine but after reading this and seeing some of the comments I felt I had to make statement about it.
8647768 8647752 8647777
Basically full agreement. It's what we expected, and therefore it's just too clean.
I'm rather disappointed that the reason given falls into age though. Spike was born when Twilight was a very young filly(based on size likely decently younger than the cmc were at the shows start), so I can't help but feel how I often feel when that's the best excuse Rarity has. Four to lets say six years being treated like sixteen or more. Filly Twilight is far from the age of a mother and even adults and young adults are prone to crushes. There are other reasons that could be given, even the species thing is somewhat viable especially if she wants foals of her own and the author chooses a world with no hybrids.
Also, can't say I really liked that Spike's options are forgive Rarity or lose two friends. Kind of feels like putting a gun to his head. Especially if you push it further to how it affects all of his other friendships. I'd of liked to see more understanding of Spike's right to feel his emotions and make his own decisions in time, than an expectation to forgive them now or else.
So there's certainly a few things I didn't like, but I do think Fluttershy is really great here. The empathy, patience, and understanding of what's needed is all really solid character depth and does feel like the caregiver and the sensitive mare she is. Spike's emotions and inner turmoil in a lot of places are really relatiable even to someone whose never been in his position. Overall it's a good solid piece, but it's not what I'd call great for reasons others gave and my own.
8648081
It's also possible the rest of the trilogy will have little or nothing else to do with Spike. The trilogy is about
So future chapters could focus on their relationship to Discord, their relationship with their parents, with other members of the main six, with each other. It's not a trilogy about Spike, so we can't assume that any resolution for him that we'd feel more content with will come. This could be it.
The writing and grammer was...fine. But, as I stated in one of the previous chapters, this one felt pretty rushed. and that Twimom stuff towards the end, but that's more of a personal thing so I can't hold that against you. Still, what Empty Shelf said, its idealised, especially since the timeframe of this story seems to take place all in the same day. One of the great things that separate fanfiction from the show itself is that writers aren't constrained to the same 22 mins the showruners are left with (unless they're doing one of those 30 min challenges). This means that writers are given a lot more time and space to more fully explore the characters and situations they find themselves in. I'm not saying this was bad but it certainly could have benefitted from another chapter or two to better allow the reader to digest Spike's state of mind over the events of the story. It may be just moping but it'd be a good way to see how Spike thinks when faced with something like this.
8647930
I think that's because Fluttershy was the one excluding herself most of the time. There is almost nothing holding her back in most situations than the barriers and limitations she puts on herself manifested from her innate fears and shyness. Spike's exclusion, at least in the definition given by Fluttershy in this chapter is externally enforced so her claim to empathy may seem a little far fetched here.
8648136
Well What I mean by exclusion if you compare Spike and Fluttershy situation, Fluttershy has a clear advantage. When I mean a clear advantage is that she is a pony, around same age as Rarity, part of the bearers of Harmony has been in the same town, has known her by for more time than Spike, has not been left behind by everyone else for events (Rarity opens her store in Manehatten, or the Equestrian games etc.)and has been invited about same or even more times than Spike. It gives her more time spend with Rarity than him.
8648113
If what you are saying is true, that would mean that Spike's current friendship would feel unfinished and most likely forgotten, would it even be brought up by the other friends if they move on them? Will it affect them differently?
8648100
The age difference is hard to pin down because pony and dragon ages are rather badly defined in the show. Suffice to say, he's not old enough now, and the issue became moot when she actively started dating Fluttershy.
8648136
Actually, it's more apt than you might think. Fluttershy set her sights on a very heterosexual female. Spike set his sights on a much older person. If anything, Spike had the better end of this deal until the dating started, because Rarity was aware of his feelings and at least acted receptive to them, which only let his fantasies achieve new heights.
In reality, Fluttershy had much less of a chance, being that Rarity was not attracted at all to the female form sexually. She felt moved by Fluttershy's feelings and how close they were as friends, that she tried to overcome that.
Then we have Spike, who she's actively swooned over. He's gallant, he dreams of himself as a buff knight and Rarity really responds to that. But the age problem is not something you can just overlook. He needed another 5-10 years before she would have been comfortable with even attempting it. But, if he'd set his sights to someone around his own age, he would have had no difficulty.
>no difficulty
He's a dragon. Maybe his next crush in this fan universe (if he gets one) would be like Fluttershy and be afraid of him, or maybe they just don't like him back. Either way, to say he'd have no problems if he was just a little older misses the mark here. I could look over the age problem but this isn't my fanverse so I won't here. I wish I was a better writer so I could have my own 'verse but oh well. Fluttershy was able to get her feelings across to Rarity which changed her perception of her sexuality. Spike didn't even get that far because of his age. Spike, in this story at least, never stood a chance because of his age limiting him from pursuing a relationship with Rarity even if her perception of the seriousness of his love for her changed, wouldn't change anything here, her relatioship wih Fluttershy notwithstanding.
8648241
Yep, he's a dragon. He also knows where other dragons are, one of whom seems to have a tsundere relationship with him. He'd probably have better luck there too. Point is, yes, Fluttershy can relate, because both of them lusted after somepony who wasn't normally going to respond to their feelings, and Fluttershy's problem of being the wrong sex was easier to overcome than waiting for a decade or so.
Thoughts:
I. It's ridiculous how much I relate to Spike after just a few paragraphs; he's not really a favourite character of mine - and judging by his lack of appearances (save when he needs to screw-up for plot-relevant reasons) he's not that popular with the writers either - but we can all empathise with that first crush, and how much it stings when it's not reciprocated.
This made me giggle out loud a bit. Ponies, walking around naked all the time, means that Spike literally HAS seen everything.
Ah, rose tea. Helps fight off infections, but not the pangs of first love.
I wish the show would go into whether or not Spike actually LIKES being treated as an indentured servant; given the sugar-bowl nature of the show, the answer is probably, "Yes," but it would nice to have that confirmation. Of course, him being happy about it still leads to the whole Happiness in Slavery-trope, but that's not really what this story is about (only it does raise questions: is Rarity simply playing on Spike's nature to help, or is she taking advantage of his infatuation to get a free assistant?).
The best description of Rarity's accent I've read suggests that it's a, "Trans-Atlantic English accent."
*Spits out tea*
No, Spike, that's coffee.
Obviously time-placement is a factor in this, but if it's set after more recent episodes perhaps you could have her being nervous/anticipatory instead of shy, given her more outgoing personality of late.
And maybe that's why I don't warm to her as much as even, say, Applejack (my other least-favourite character). It's the imperfections in a person/pony that makes them worthwhile.
Dragon-tamer. Disease-curer. Water-transporter. Yeah, you may want to re-think that just Fluttershy, there, kid. (Don't worry, I'm not genuinely picking fault with how this is phrased - it's probably what I'd be thinking, too - but you know me and my Fluttershy-fetish.)
I had a very similar experience to this a decade-and-a-half ago and it was the WORST POSSIBLE THING when the person still wanted to be friends, was super-empathetic and compassionate, and it just made my heart break even more than if they'd been really mean about the whole situation.
You don't really need me to say this, but I'll do it, anyway, because I know how much you enjoy it: a story as technically-perfect as one could wish for. You've written Spike very well - probably one of the hardest things to do, since he's pretty much defined by his crush on Rarity and screwing-up - and the little things between Rarity and Fluttershy were well-handled, too.
II.
This sentence - with the repetition of sit and under - comes across as a little bit clunky.
Again, this question that bubbles away under the surface: is Rarity taking advantage of Spike's crush? Does she actually know about it in canon? (I guess, post-Secret Of My Excess, the answer is yes.) Or is she simply using her whiles to get what she wants, as she does with everypony else? It's a pretty fun dichotomy - one that the show would do well to explore in an episode - that the Element of Generosity has a habit of being rather Selfish.
Thing about crushes: you shouldn't do anything to encourage it, of course, but by the same token you can't just start avoiding being affectionate with a friend because of it. It's a mine-field.
Again, an interesting thing to look at: do you leave it or do you try and sort it out right away? Time may heal all wounds, but it also wounds all heels. Demanding answers when you're angry ... does it ever really work out as you'd hoped? Then again, allowing things to fester and poison your soul, is that any better?
Oh, Spike, you DO NOT want to get into what they can and can't do together. We've all read Lust.
Interesting denouement of this chapter. Looking on from the outside-in, it's a classic, "Nopony's really done anything wrong." But that's the beauty of this type of conflict: you can still hurt someone even if you do everything right. Spike does have a point about being led-on (if she was leading him on, that is), but then wouldn't he have still helped her out just as a friend? Not that I want to get into psychology, but if he was less of a doormat, if he'd said, "No," to her occasionally, would Rarity have respected him more? Maybe even see him as a potential mate once he'd matured?
III.
Has made, maybe? Or makes, seeing as how this is all happening in real-time from Spike's perspective.
Ah, good ol' crying Rarity. I like that it's sniffles and not full-blown waterworks. You know that someone's genuinely upset when they're crying and no one's there to witness them.
That's pretty dark (especially coming from happy-go-lucky Spike), but it fits perfectly with how a lot of people would feel in this situation.
Best description of a crush ever.
Oh, Rarity, just when I was starting to get on your side, too. I have to side with Spike and say that, yes, if - as seems to be the subtext - she was just using him to make herself feel good, then that's pretty cruel.
Nice evasion. I know that she's telling the truth, but sometimes a lie is easier: it might've been better for Rarity to just tell him that there was absolutely no chance, even if we all know in our hearts that a super-buff, mature Spike would've totally rocked her world.
I like how you've melded Spike and Fluttershy's backstories. No chance of an OTT to resolve this, eh?
Spike, you should have more faith in Fluttershy. You've already conceded that she's stronger than she looks, and now you think that she'll just blindly follow Rarity in dissing you if you're no longer friends? It can be hard, sometimes, when you share the same friend-pool, but it's not impossible.
And there it is: the hardest concession that the spurned has to make.
On the one hoof, knowing that this series is on-going, I suppose I don't have too many complaints about what might be seen as a rushed (contrite, happy) ending, but on the other I'm gonna complain, anyway, just because it's in my nature to do so. Can't wait to see where this train takes us next.
8648308
Wasn't saying she couldn't but that said connection was not as strong as intended. Fluttershy was trying to empathize with Spike but it still boiled down to her perception. Fluttershy thought she knew Rarity could never love her but clearly that's not the case. Yes, it took time and Rarity needed to see herself as being able to date a girl, but the never itself doesn't exist now aside from as a past train of thought she once had. Spike, on the other hand, now has a definitive answer: he will never get a chance to date Rarity. A combination of is age, his place within their group of friends (being Twi's charge) predisposing Rarity to not see him as an equal and Rarity's relationship with Fluttershy will forever stop him from getting the chance. Simply put, nothing was barring Fluttershy from being with Rarity other than Rarity being willing to give her a chance despite her previous sexuality whereas Spike has Fluttershy herself, Rarity,'s perception of him and whatever Equestrian age of consent laws exist in this continuity. As for Ember, If Spike likes her, great, but that doesn't mean he'd have more success with her. Just as Spike may be physically different from ponies despite sharing most of their mindset, the inverse is true in relation to him with dragons. His mindset might be too in line with ponies to be attractive to a dragon. Despite Ember's willingness to interact with ponies, I don't know how she'd respond to dating a pony in a dragon's scales. Plus, maybe Spike just likes ponies instead. I get kinda iffy with that whole 'be with your own kind' argument.
8648337
Not saying he shouldn't be with a pony, but with another dragon I would imagine there is no real age of consent so much as is your mate able to mate with you. Spike has shown dragon physiology is very adaptable, so I imagine if he needed to mate, he would grow to the appropriate stature. And we already know he's mature enough emotionally to be with Ember, she seems very receptive to his ideas of affection and hugs.
Plus, you know, being the consort to the Dragon Lord would make pony and dragon relations pretty damned good.
8648345
If that were the case, I'd imagine he could just adapt to fit the requirements of an older pony then. Still, with Ember, it'd be almost the same as Fluttershy and Rarity except both would need to evaluate whether they would he able to manage the extremely steep cultural differences to be together on top of addressing if they were attracted to one another to begin with. Ember, despite being open to new ideas, still seems to take a lot of pride in being a dragon. Likewise, Spike already experienced dragon culture and rejected it in favor of that of the ponies. If he thought being a consort would be cool, I'd imagine he would thing keeping the title of Dragon Lord would be even cooler and yet he still chose to give that, and in turn a chance at integrating into dragon society up in favor of remaining with his pony friends. I'm not saying the thought of them together is without merit but I doubt it'd be as simple as two dragons hooking up, especially when one only sees himself as a dragon in name only.
8648194
What I quoted is directly from the author's blog about his new O series. So it's not unreasonable by any means.
8648200
If the age reason is the reason she never considered him, there's no way it moot to him. She might be dating Fluttershy now so there's nothing that change the fact his chance is gone, but why he apparently never had one will definitely effect him and his future relationships from now on.
She says she's old enough to be his mother basically. While Twilight's age or any other is never mentioned in the show, the writers themselves said shes somewhere in her teen years when the show starts. Old enough to be on her own but young enough to be learning and applying the lessons. The writers also mentioned that they envisioned Celestia raising Spike, because Twilight was far too young. (Obviously we can't call this cannon because it's not in the show. Kind of a shame cause the Celestia/Spike parent child relationship has a lot of potential for character development, but that's why we have fan fiction.) We also know in the course of the Equestrian years that the show's been(Which I'm sure someone has figured out based on season changes or something) on that the CMC have not gotten any bigger though they have mentally matured; that's a big part of the Rarity/Sweetie Belle episode last season is how far the CMC girls have come. Spike cooks, stays home alone and watches the castle, went on a journey "by himself," was old enough to be considered for the throne of Dragon Lord, is considered a national hero and basically hailed by the Crystal Guard as if he's some sort of action hero, etc. These aren't things a child does, it's rather safe to assume Spike has achieved adolescence if not adulthood by pony standards. As for the age of consent, if Rarity and Fluttershy hit it, how far can Spike really be, if he's under it at all? Also, he DMs for one of the oldest of their generation and an ancient Chaos God. All this makes me have to disagree considerably when you say she'd have to wait a decade.
8648471
It should be mentioned that Spike being too young obviously only applies to this story. Yes, there are any number of ways to age him up, from the aforementioned chaos god to sending him off to be a companion to Dr. Whooves for a few decades only to return a moment later. It's as you say, his shot is gone because Rarity found somepony else, my only point was that it's not as if he never had one to begin with. He was in the running, but he had a handicap due to age difference. The true amount of age difference is immaterial, because it's enough to make Rarity not consider him in the past, and unimportant now that she is dating anyway.
We've discussed our personal headcanons on Spike before, we don't really need to hash it out again here.
8648545
Ah yes, that did happen. Well fair enough.
I remember that specific Doctor Woooves one, that story really screws Spike over hard for all he did. That caveat at the end to try and make it feel better never really settled well with me or quite a few authors, but another story at another time perhaps, no need to fill these comments with only sort of related discussion
Hum. It seems like no one bas brought this up but... it kinda feels like, between Fluttershy being the one to drag Spike back when Rarity was feeling guilty, plus the one that ultimately asks the question at the end about "But she's your friend, right?" That Fluttershy is trying to make everyone feel better...
But sort of by putting the onus of making it better on Spike swallowing his hurt feelings.
I don't think she has bad intentions, and at least once she stops Rarity from digging the knife into Spike by going into how wonderful she thinks Fluttershy is, but i do think the sense of this trying to rush Spike into accepting his loss is being pressed by her.
That being said, while he "accepted" it there is also at least some evidence he didn't really handle all his feelings. Maybe is closer to wishing he was over it than actually over it. But I hope the sequels directly or indirectly reinforce or handle this.
8648916
She is... but she's more or less asking him if he can do what she does on a regular basis; swallow the hurt, bury it deep, and hope it never comes back in a fit of rage and makes you yell mean things at your best friends. Avoidance is what she does.
8648988
That still casts it in a rather negative light.
In this case it also sorta means that she's asking him to do this in the situation where she no longer has to, and presumably doing it did not help her in the least bit.
I think there is a lot to like about the story, though even if I can find things I'm not so much a fan of. Heck, this, despite the conclusion being unsatisfying to me was pretty strongly in character.
8649042
There are no right answers here. Spike is hurt, Rarity is hurt, Fluttershy hurts because they hurt. Happiness is not to be found. Sometimes you just have to forgive, even if it's hard, because you care about the other person, and not because they deserve to be forgiven.
8649045
Fortunately your response wasn't contradicted by my rapid fire editing of my comment as I added more stuff. Not a great habit of mine, hitting the post button and flying back to edit it, but I only added more.
I want to say this with as little confrontation as possible, but, I really don't like this characterization of the situation as "everyone is hurting."
Spike is hurting. There is no happy ending for him for this. All the other characters' hurt is in relation to his hurt, a variety of guilt and regret that he might be hurt for longer about this and it might affect their ability to be friends with him, but that they are not primarily hurt by this.
Forgiveness isn't the angle to look at this, because Spike hurts no matter what, whether or not Rarity "wronged him". The hurt is unavoidable.
But the way this plays out is that Spike needs to be okay with this for their well being. He's the one hurt and disappointed but he is put in charge of their feelings and making them feel better, and he would be the bad person for still being hurt when they are getting what they want.
Note that I don't think him clinging onto this would be anything approaching good for him or for others... But that ultimately the decision to try to swallow his feelings isn't about him reaching a place of peace with it so he can feel better, but so that the others can feel less guilty about his pain.
8649045
Slight mod: while I think Fluttershy dragging him there so quickly because Rarity was upset was a bit unkind of her, given the speed of it and that they don't know he would cause problems or not with their social group, there is nothing actually inherently wrong in reaffirming theirr friendship after this trouble, only how it plays out with the ultimate reason he decides to reaffirm (with some framing by Fluttershy) is that he would be hurting them, when he is hurting himself. Ignoring his own by all rights more significant hurt in order to alleviate theirs is the issue, not that reaffirming friendship to give a goal moving forward is bad, because it isn't.
Edit: I reread and feeling like he would be hurting his friends if he didn't make amends was only part of his process, there was other parts about being afraid of losing them, which is better, but ultimately letting go so he isn't making himself miserable and isn't feeling bad anymore over the loss is sorta the "real" solution and why letting go of Rarity romantically would be good for him, and that part is not discussed, IIRC.
8648081
That's also what bothered me about the ending. Even though, as Spike said, it's hard to stay mad at Fluttershy, if I were in Spike's place, I would still hold some resentment for her when she got something I had been trying for for years, and in comparsion, it didn't seem like she earned it. (Mind you, I haven't read any of Taialin's stories in this universe prior to this one, so maybe there was some courting involved, but it couldn't have compared to the years Spike kept dropping hints and trying to win Rares over.)
---------------
Nevertheless, like I said before, and many of you will agree, this was an expected ending. Maybe too predictable.These ponies (and their associates) are just so forgiving. Attempt to destroy the Elements (not the bearers, the ACTUAL elements)? You're forgiven. Steal one of their princess's crowns, take it to another world, transform into a demon and attack a school? You're forgiven. Start a cult, steal the cutie marks from the Element Bearers and many other innocent ponies, and then when they foil that plan, attempt to change history for the worse? And you did all of this just because you were separated from a friend? You're forgiven, and your former foes are now instantly your friends! You even get to live in a castle now!
Geez, I really went off on a tangent there.
8649288
Of course, like HF Fury also said, and I agree, I couldn't really handle an ending where Spike still refuses to forgive them and instead decides to shut them out. That would be going a little too far. But at the same time, I think Spike deserves better treatment and perhaps somepony else to love. There's a reason Sparity has never been my favorite Spike ship - given Rarity's often-times questionable treatment of Spike throughout the series, and the fact that she has swooned twice over some stallion who turned out to be totally unlikeable - it very well could end up similar to this story.
I hope my thoughts aren't suggesting I treat this story like the official canon. I am aware that this is just a Fanfiction, and frankly, I'm glad it's only a Fanfiction.
8648916
Well, of course. Rarity is her girlfriend after all. Even if she considers herself at the very least friends with both, she's still going to be bias in Rarity's favor. Even Spike knows this when he begins questioning whether his friendship with Fluttershy would survive if he stopped being friends with Rarity. Still, she's trying at least. I do think forcing a conclusion on Spike rather than have him come to one organically? as you seem to imply, can leave lingering repressed feelings in the air that may come back to bite the three of them in the future. While this may not be the sole or even primary reasoning for Spike's reconciliation with Rarity, it still comes across as a factor when reading this chapter.
8649288
She's known Rarity for far longer than Spike was even in Ponyville, and the relationship was always a strong friendship, first and foremost. No, Fluttershy was never directly courting Rarity, because she never assumed she had a chance. Rarity found out about the attraction and decided Fluttershy was important enough to her after years of knowing her to explore that.
So... no, in this story, Fluttershy's been chasing the purple tail for far longer, she just wasn't open about it like Spike is.
8649790
How are we to know how long Fluttershy saw Rarity in a romantic way, though? Those feelings may have only risen after Spike's arrival in Ponyville. Assuming this story is using the original canon as a base, I don't think Rarity and Fluttershy knew each other that well until Twilight arrived and tied the Mane 6 all together. I fail to see how Flutters had it more difficult than Spike, when Spike has the age and species barriers against him. The only difficulty for Flutters here was her lack of confidence that such a relationship would work, whereas Spike had all the confidence, and guess what, it didn't work! If Spike had taken the same approach as Fluttershy, it still wouldn't have worked out because Rarity still would have seen him as too young.
If you're trying to get me to change sides here, you're doing a terrible job.
8649814
Nope, not at all. I'm simply presenting the facts that this series (and by that, I mean the series of stories this author has written, not MLP canon as a whole) has shown. Feel for Spike as you will, he is the one left hurting. But in this story, Fluttershy was actually there for far longer, never daring to speak up for fear of rejection and what it might do to her friendship with Rarity.
Talking about how he's had it harder in canon is kind of moot, in canon he'd never have to contend with Rarity dating one of her friends.
8649830
I suppose it's just hard for me to accept considering I almost always root for Spike, and I don't ship Flarity. (Like I've said, I don't even ship Sparity, but for some reason I just can't help but support it for the purpose of this story.) I've read other "Spike is rejected by Rarity" stories, but this is the first one I've read where he "lost" in quotes because here, it was clearly no contest to another one of the Mane 6. I probably wouldn't be as biased if I read the "L" series that preceded this story, which you clearly have. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you in the first place, when you understand this story's universe and I clearly don't.
8649859
It's not really about who deserves to win. It's really just sad that anyone had to lose. Spike is a great little guy, he shouldn't have to feel like this.
Will the next story be focused on Spike's POV, or on Rarity & Fluttershy? Because frankly, they've already had three stories in their own "L" series, & Spike's grief over losing his love for Rarity needs more room to be explored & more time to be properly resolved. Yes, this ending establishes that he's not casting aside his friendships with Rarity & Fluttershy, but he is still in the throes of emotional agony, & he needs ample time well away from those two in order to heal. I'm quite curious as to the form that distance will take, whether sequestering himself in Twilight's place, taking an extended trip to Canterlot to see Celestia or Twi's parents, or even heading to parts as distant as the Crystal Empire or the Dragon Lands. Whatever the case, continuing to live in Ponyville as though he weren't recovering from a grievous emotional wound isn't an option, and Rarity & Fluttershy need to learn to cope with the necessity of not getting to see him for the next few months. To insist otherwise would be placing their desires over his needs, which Twilight would certainly put her hoof down over. Twilight, of all ponies, would know the stages of loss/grief as they apply to romance, because I can hardly imagine that she hasn't read at least one book about such, if not three or more, given her well-established love of reading any and every non-fiction book under the sun (plus the Derring Do series at the least).
Here's to hoping for the next installment, and whatever it brings.
I admit, I have not read this, and will read when I have the chance...but at first glance, all I see is "Spike's screwed and didn't have a shot in the first place because of his species and his age/relationship between him and the others in their group. So he needs to get over it, and try for somecreature else because his first choice is taken." Pessimistic, cynical, and jaded--I know, it's my first glance. But I know that there has to be more than it.
Though I'm concerned that even that this is a plausibility, and how he reacts to it going forward, it's not gonna be good for him. Probably time does truly heal all wounds, but I can't see him with anyone--even giving someone else a chance...and that could lead to a bigger tragedy--permamanly closing his heart to anyone else.
9185186
In this continuity Rarity never thought of him in that way. There are many others in which she does.
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