Okay, first of all, I'm not trying to start a religion war, so please. Keep it clean. I'm all for a friendly, heated debate.

So, we know Tartarus exists in the Equestrian world as a fact. This complicates things, because it's not something someone can "believe in", it's there. We also saw some kind of Astral Plane, where Twilight was taken at the end of Season 3. This place also exists as a fact.

The question is, are these the places ponies go when they die? Or is Tartarus only there to make sure nutcases like Tirek stay put? If so, where wouldthey go when they die? Do you take the Atheist approach, and say they go nowhere? Are they just... gone?

I'm genuinely curious about this. I'm also hoping this will provide some thought fuel for everyone. Please, tell me your thoughts

My current headcanon is 'some different but close plane of existence'. Where communication from the regular living realm to this other one is possible with the right process (and effort, I guess).

5109091 Tartarus is depicted in the show as a prison, not an afterlife.

We don't know where Twilight was at the end of season 3, other than "oh, look, magic!" *handwave away inconvenient questions*

Whether there's an afterlife or not, and where it is or isn't, is not covered and is something I expect the show's writers to thoroughly avoid at almost any cost because anything they say about it will infuriate someone in a way that Hasbro doesn't need.

Reincarnation seems to make the most sense to me in the settings, presuming a soul. There has been at least one story that presumes that Tartarus is punishment until the offender works off their sins, then is allowed to finally reincarnate.

In a setting where's the are literately thousands of years old characters with magic, it seems to me the ultimate goal is eventual ascension for all souls, over time, rather than souls only getting one chance before being taken out of circulation, so to speak.

5109091 While the canon has references of Tartarus and has a clearly defined astral plane, no mention for or against an afterlife is given. Then again, the show has an abundant lack of mortality, so it could be just about anything. Write whatever you like!

If you're looking for ideas, I'd suggest trying to write it from whatever perspective you lack in the real world. For instance, if you're an atheist, I'd suggest writing about having an immortal soul and the boredom that might settle in as the protagonist comes to understand just what eternity really means. Conversely, if the author is a Christian or some other theist, I'd recommend writing about the lack of a real soul and the gripping loss that comes with the death of a loved one. Conflict is the butter on the bread of a good narrative, so try something you haven't thought of before!

~C

5109091
I like to stick with the Greek mythology parallels and go with the Fields of Asphodel, Punishment, and Elysium.

It's also fun when an author comes up with their own unique mythos, as I've seen some do.

Note: Tartarus isn't technically a part of the Greek Underworld. It's just where the evil Titans were imprisoned, and is positioned below even the Underworld.

5109091
5109105
The important thing to keep in mind about Tartarus is that it is described as being "The deepest pit of the deepest part of Hades."
Tartarus is still part of Hades. Therefore, it is easy to assume that ponies go to Hades when they die.
Plus. You know. Cerberus guards the gates of Hades. And we saw Cerberus too.
Honestly, I've come to accept that Hades is the afterlife of ponies.
What I'm far more concerned about is that the entrance to Hades appears to be easily accessible to the living, considering the fact that Applejack "brought Cerberus home" in less than a day in the show. That, or Applejack is really undead.
...Aw shit Apple pony is a fucking zombie.
It appears my rambling has just created a new headcanon.

I thought when ponies die they go to 'the great pasture in the sky'.

5109091
What makes you think ponies do go anywhere when they die?
Death is death. It`s final.

Tartarus has nothing to do with dead ponies - it`s clearly a place used as prison for dangerous entities.
Astral plane, likewise, is nothing to do with dead ponies.

5109121

What makes you think ponies do go anywhere when they die?

Because regardless of whether it reflects reality, what happens at and after death is an interesting place for stories.

5109091 I say, when in doubt, use mythology.

Excluding modern religions, some myths and religions of old have some pretty cool afterlives. One of the most famous is Valhalla. Another is the various ways one gets to the afterlife in ancient Egypt. Of course, there's also Elysium from the Greeks. As a writer for a topic not discussed in the show, there's no wrong answer. Heck, you could combine many things from several afterlives and simply create your own Paradise/Hell.

5109091
Ponies D-DIE?

5109124
Is it?

5109144
Considering the great number of stories that focus on exactly that, I would say yes, it is.

5109091 I assume they go to some kind of cemetery or graveyard.

As for their soul, I dunno. I'm sceptical about saying they go to Tartarus, since it's more of a prison like deal. Personally, I'm a fan of recycling. It seems neater. I think people call it reincarnation. But that's really just my personal preference.

I think Tartarus in the show is explicitly a magical prison, like Azkaban in Harry Potter. Ponies and other creatures are being sent to it and breaking out of it all the time.

In most of my stories ponies have no belief in an afterlife. No idea what ACTUALLY happens to them when they die.

5109146 I would argue that any story about the afterlife is actually just using facets of that "afterlife" as metaphors for different aspects of experiences or events people encounter while living.

For example, The Inferno is a pretty classical Hero's Journey trope type of story. The quest the main character embarks on to traverse hell is really just a metaphor for a journey through the world the author lived in at the time and encountering what he perceived to be the various kinds of wickedness and depravity that living humans were prone to.

I'm really not big on "afterlife" stories because I think they generally, pretty much inherently in the concept, violate a lot of storytelling rules I prefer to follow about not resorting to supernaturalism or deus ex machine / handwaving, and the themes they're getting at can be explored and the point of the story executed just as effectively without going down those routes.

5109091

Considering how many humans seem to end up in Equestria when they die, you can expect the reverse is true: When ponies die, they go to our own little corner of hell. :)

More seriously though, canon avoids the topic like the plague. It does make passing mentions that ponies do die, see "Hearts and Hooves Day" -- however, no clear mentions of the belief in afterlife or any descriptions of views on the subject can be found anywhere I remember. There are characters which are inexplicably missing and presumed dead, like Applejack's parents or Pinkie's grandmother, however, they are never even referred to as actually dead.

The aforementioned "Elysium" is as good and sensible a guess as any.

5109163 I dunno, I could probably think of a premise or two that utilizes the afterlife...

Admittedly, I do have to be a bit more creative about it, though.

Why they go where all ponies go after they pass on. To the Hormel processing plant.

5109091 Probably to a cemetannnnnd Hap's beaten me to it.

Blast.

5109138
Uwaah!
Um. N-no!
They just go to a farm upstate, where they can be outside as much as they want, and prance around in fields of wildflowers all day. Just like your childhood dog!

5109091
They go (or not!) wherever it is dramatically appropriate that they go for whatever story I'm writing.

5109146
Just because there are stories doesn`t make it interesting. Idea of moving on to some eternal place is inherently flawed, and trying to picture it either becomes boring drivel or turns into dystopia.

5109163
While I can see where you're coming from, you could make an argument in the same vein for super hero stories, and space exploration stories, and stories about colorful ponies. In the end, all of storytelling is about metaphors for aspects of life; authors are ultimately limited to what they experience. In other words, I think “It's just a metaphor” is a rather silly reason to dismiss a type of story.

5109266

Just because there are stories doesn`t make it interesting.

Many, many stories, that get large, diverse audiences. I'm not sure what you mean by ‘interesting’, but in my book it means something that draws attention, which afterlife stories clearly, empirically do.

Idea of moving on to some eternal place is inherently flawed,

The problem is you're trying to shove reality into this. The idea of magical talking ponies is inherently flawed. Let me get this out of the way: I'm an anti-theist; I think the afterlife is an utterly ridiculous concept to bring into the real world. But I also like stories, and this isn't the real world. This is fiction.

5109288
Inherently flawed philosophically. Once you get past the "eternal" thing, you realize that there is no tangible difference between heaven and hell - in either, you`re consigned to same activities eternally, and the only shift you can accomplish is to switch from one to another. As such, heaven is very much a final destination and therefore, abjectly terrifying place on any and all attempt to explain it.

And I`ve never read a story that were interesting and dealt with afterlife in a significant way in the same time. Coming back from it? Sure. Evading it? Sure. Afterliving it? Nope.

5109091

They become one with whichever princess they thought was best princess during their lifetime.

It will probably be strange for Twilight when she first begins absorbing minds, but at least she'll be with her friends forever that way (unless one of them secretly liked Luna better)

5109301

That is a very very very subjective use of the term "terrifying".

5109301

Inherently flawed philosophically.

I wasn't aware something could be flawed philosophically.

Once you get past the "eternal" thing, you realize that there is no tangible difference between heaven and hell - in either, you`re consigned to same activities eternally, and the only shift you can accomplish is to switch from one to another. As such, heaven is very much a final destination and therefore, abjectly terrifying place on any and all attempt to explain it.

1. You reveal your hand when you refer specifically to ‘heaven and hell’. This discussion is about the concept of an afterlife in general, not the Abrahamic view of it. I can think of plenty of afterlife scenarios that don't involve doing the same thing for all of eternity (Eternity isn't even necessary for an afterlife; maybe it only lasts a limited amount of time.).
2. Your point seems to be that the afterlife is scary. So? Are you saying that scary concepts aren't useful for storytelling? I'm not arguing that I want an afterlife to exist. You seem to be having trouble separating fantasy from reality.

Coming back from it? Sure. Evading it? Sure.

Why aren't those significant? It seems pretty arbitrary to exclude all of the ways the afterlife trope is actually used.

5109303
That's given me some really weird story ideas. If I write any of them, I'll be sure to blame you.

5109091
There is a idea that is closely related to "Where ponies go when they die"
That is who or what determines where they go?

In Dante's inferno, Minos judges the dead and sends them to the right circle of hell.
In Egyptian mythology, someone judges the dead.
Think it has to do with a feather and a person's heart.

In Norse mythology, warriors that die in battle go to Valhalla.
Warriors who die in accidents or get killed by disease go to Hel.
A dark and dismal place.

Does Flim and Flam deserve to go to a good place for their scams when they die?
If Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoons died young, do they deserve to go to a good place?

5109315

It's giving me some weird ideas too!

On her deathbed...
Don't worry Rainbow Dash! Soon you will become one with me and all of our friends and we will all be together forever!

Um... Rainbow Dash?
Well it's just like... hypothetically what if I think Luna is best princess?
Dash! All of us agreed we'd become one with me so we'd be together forever!
I'm saying! Luna is so awesome! And all those awesome bat ponies are one with her so-
Dang it Rainbow Dash! You're going to become one with me whether you like it or not! Now get to the temple of Twilight and make a sacrifice to me to bind your soul unto myself!
But I'm dyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiiiiiing! I have cancer in my everything! Even my cancer has cancer!
Do iiiiiiit!

5109183
"Considering how many humans seem to end up in Equestria when they die, you can expect the reverse is true: When ponies die, they go to our own little corner of hell. :)"

This is a primo idea.
Kudos to you.
I would like to play with this eventually.

5109091

[GLUE FACTORY JOKE GOES HERE]

5109325

I suspect that if you look around deeply enough, you'll find it has already been done at least once. There are few genuinely new ideas around. However, in all likelihood, it hasn't been done well. :) If you do cook up something, please be sure to tell me, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

5109309
I can`t think of worse fate then being consigned to eternity of conscious stasis.

5109313
Of course it can be. Philosophically flawed idea is one that contains the flaw in it`s concept. The idea of eternal unchanging place that will swallow you regardless of anything you can do is abjectly terrifying. The very idea that such an existence can be a reward is laughable.

And my argument is that afterlife, whatever it may be, is NOT the kind of environs you want to write about. Why? Because it`s boring. Most philosophies that believe in afterlife in some form or shape do separate it into good and bad one. The likelihood of getting into good one varies - while for greeks, you had to be favored by the gods, for vikings you merely needed to die violently. But regardless of exact belief, there`s always "good" and "bad" afterlife as an insensitive to do whatever it takes to get into good one. But when one considers it critically, any kind of afterlife, be it suffering, feast, misery, rapture or singing osannas to eternal deities is ultimately boring and sanity-eroding existence.

And so, writing about what happens in afterlife is typically... rather unnecessary. You can naively hold it as great reward and keep the details out of respect for it, or you can cynically call it the stagnant demesne of perverted abominations and avoid the detail out of sheer boredom of the place, but in either case the answer is the same - describing the afterlife itself is not that interesting,

All in all, my point is such - there are plenty of stories that make use of the concept of afterlife, but very few include afterlife as a major scene of the story. Having left it behind or having achieved it in the end is common - showing what happens in it ain`t. In a way, that`s also due to fact that an attempt to do it would unequivocally come across as boring or creepy.

5109091 They go to join our Lord Faust.

5109091
Well, to quote Sherlock:

5109425

Watch out--your English is starting to slip.

See, the problem with this is that you're treating your opinions like they're fact. You find the thought of going to an afterlife terrifying? Sure. Fine. I can't justifiably tell you how to feel. What I can do, though, is point out that while your perceptions and opinions are worthwhile, that doesn't translate them into fact. What you find boring other people find fascinating, and what you find terrifying other people strive their entire lives to achieve.

I guess my point is that it's irritating to see religious beliefs thrown in our faces like they're indisputable facts when they, in fact, are not.

5109091

Away.

5109425

The idea of eternal unchanging place that will swallow you regardless of anything you can do is abjectly terrifying. The very idea that such an existence can be a reward is laughable.

There you go with the terrifying thing again. First, as I already said, you are being far too specific with your concept of the afterlife; it could be any number of things, not just an eternal unchanging Heaven and Hell. Second, the afterlife doesn't have to be a reward or punishment; this goes back to you being stuck in the Abrahamic view. Third, Just because a concept is terrifying to you doesn't mean it is terrifying to everyone. Fright is an emotion, and emotion is inherently subjective. The third is why I do not see a ‘philosophical flaw’ as a valid argument: It implies everyone agrees with your philosophy.

And my argument is that afterlife, whatever it may be, is NOT the kind of environs you want to write about. Why? Because it`s boring.

You may personally find it boring, but vast numbers of people disagree with you; this goes back to the definition of interesting being something that people pay attention to.

Most philosophies that believe in afterlife in some form or shape do separate it into good and bad one.

What most philosophies believe about it is irrelevant to the concept itself.

But regardless of exact belief, there`s always "good" and "bad" afterlife as an insensitive to do whatever it takes to get into good one.

I can come up with plenty of afterlife concepts that aren't like that, and you yourself just said ‘most philosophies’ separate it into good and bad, so you know very well that it isn't always true.

But when one considers it critically, any kind of afterlife, be it suffering, feast, misery, rapture or singing osannas to eternal deities is ultimately boring and sanity-eroding existence.

I won't be a broken record and point out what I've already addressed and you seem to have failed to get, but this is where I reveal my own feelings on the subject as an example of how your attempt to insist that your personal feelings are universal is wrong. I want to live forever. I have no trouble with the thought of eternal existence. I have thought very much about this. That you, personally, would not want to live forever is irrelevant.

And so, writing about what happens in afterlife is typically... rather unnecessary.

Writing about anything is rather unnecessary. Writing is for exploring any and all ideas the author cares to explore, including ones you don't like.

You can naively hold it as great reward and keep the details out of respect for it, or you can cynically call it the stagnant demesne of perverted abominations and avoid the detail out of sheer boredom of the place, but in either case the answer is the same - describing the afterlife itself is not that interesting,

You just described two possibilities and then pretended that they were the only two available; This is known as a false dichotomy. Counterexample to your claim: The Divine Comedy goes into great detail on the afterlife, and is considered a masterwork of literature.

All in all, my point is such - there are plenty of stories that make use of the concept of afterlife, but very few include afterlife as a major scene of the story.

There are plenty of stories that make use of the concept of a duck, but very few include the duck as a major character of the story.

You seem very keen to deny the importance of the afterlife in literary culture. Shall we start the armchair psychology?

5109425

I can`t think of worse fate then being consigned to eternity of conscious stasis.

That's not what heaven is.
Heaven is described in the Bible, if you would take the time to read it. I'm not trying to make this into a religion debate, nor am I trying to convert you. I'm just saying the information is there, and you should research it before making statements like that. Heaven isn't eternal stasis, it's a state of being. More specifically, it's the time after the Final Judgement after the Apocalypse where all those faithful to God and willing to accept him will finally be allowed to go back to the world and live life as it should have been, without sin. We're not dead and forever bound to the sky singing angelic songs dude, we're just put into limbo until we can return to Earth after the last evil in the world is finally defeated.

Technically, if tartarus in the show is anything like it is in say Greek mythology, then technically if a pony dies they would go to the Underworld. Tartarus is where the titans were sent for torment(the abyss). However, there is the fields of Asphodel is where normal souls that were neither good nor bad would live for eternity. Then you have Elysium, where noble souls and heroes would go after death. And yes, this is all in the underworld. You also have the fields of torment.

I guess you could about rank it like this(although canon or not, a different story)

If Twilight Sparkle were to die, she would go to the Fields of Elysium

If Tirek were to die, he would go to tartarus

If a foal rapist were to die, he would go to fields of torment/punishment

and if say derpy hooves were to die, she would go to Asphodel

5109091 Life after death is a horrible idea. Weak should permanently perish from existence so the strong can prosper. And if there's a heaven, the better ones should spread there, also.

Imagine Heaven full of G3 ponies.

The horror!

5109091 My head-cannon is that souls in Equestria are a pony's quanta, and without a soul they act exactly the same as with one. Only difference is without a soul the body is a philosophical zombie that acts normal, but experiences nothing. Now, when a pony dies their soul leaves their body, but none of their memories stick, because a consciousnesses isn't memories, but only the 'observer'.

Now, since ponies have magic, it imprints the soul with small aspects of their personality upon death. If they have a cutie mark, then their special talent will be partially preserved. The souls then get recycled back into the ether, which is a highly concentrated bundle of pure magic in the core of the plant. However, as new creatures are born, so are new souls from pure magic. And if a new body comes along that has familiar magic, or potential, then a soul will detach itself from the ether to be born anew. Reincarnation. I personally feel this is the only way to get around the many paradoxes that exist when souls and brains both exist.

However, if a being is powerful enough, their soul can actually be imprinted with their entire brain upon death, making spirits. But if a being has the level of Alicorn magic, then the soul is infused with all their magic and neurology, and then their bodies burn out from the overload. They then become incorporeal beings that can become corporal at will, just by pure magic alone. And in Discord's case, they become all-powerful in a certain aspect of the world, for reasons I will not explain right now. Not really relevant to a pony's afterlife.

Also, in my mind, Tartarus is a prison for beings that gained too much magic, and now literally cannot die because their souls and their body's are one in the same. You could, given enough magic, burn their bodies out and take away much of their magic, but they will eventually be able to repair themselves.

If you want me to extrapolate, I will, but at the moment I am going to end it there.

5109456
Oh? You presume to tell me that my opinions are, in fact, not the last word ever said on any matter? Gee, thanks, Sureluck, I`d never figure it out on my own. What a novel concept.

On a side note, can you clarify how the thought of eternal boredom being horrifying is in any way religious? (Nevermind my... rather well known distaste for any kind of religion for now. I`m fully aware you`re trolling, but I want to hear your honest answer on this... Or at least honest admission of trolling so there`d be a record.)

5109461
If you`re dissatisfied with me using the already established concepts for afterlife, propose your own. I`ll equally gleefully pick your creation apart. So far you`re awfully quick decrying my use of established concepts, but I`ve yet to see you volunteer any of your own. If you think you can envision a better afterlife, let`s hear it.
Use of Divine Comedy is fallacious - it describes the experiences of a person taking stock of the whole mess from stem to stern. We`re not following any specific sinner in hell, mortal in purgatory or saint in heaven to see how their days go, we view their generalities - what the environs and societies are. That is interesting - in a large part because it allows us to fill out the bigger picture.

You know, you keep accusing me of narrowing the options, but you aren`t particularly keen on offering any examples of what I`ve missed. Let`s see what you`ve got. If afterlife is different then what I think, then what should it be?

5109480
I actually read it. Surprised?
The thing is, if we`ll take the Bible model, I`m definitely going to hell express way, because to me the very idea of god is repulsive and evil. Even if by some quirk of law I`d get into Biblical heaven, it would be abominably miserable experience, and I`m very likely to try and spread the misery if leaving wasn`t an option. (N.B. - I am including the "after judgment" part into afterlife, because that`s what it is).
On a side note, how do you imagine life without sin?

Ponies don't die, they're murdered. There's a swift death for the good, and a torturous one for the bad. Either way, there is no afterlife, it's just nothingness. Case closed!

5109610

If you`re dissatisfied with me using the already established concepts for afterlife, propose your own.

I tell you you're being too specific, and you tell me if I want to make that argument, I should be specific? What? You aren't using the established concepts of an afterlife. You are using some concepts often associated with an afterlife. These are different things.

Use of Divine Comedy is fallacious - it describes the experiences of a person taking stock of the whole mess from stem to stern.

You said, I quote:

And so, writing about what happens in afterlife is typically... rather unnecessary. You can naively hold it as great reward and keep the details out of respect for it, or you can cynically call it the stagnant demesne of perverted abominations and avoid the detail out of sheer boredom of the place, but in either case the answer is the same - describing the afterlife itself is not that interesting,

Nothing about following a specific person. You're moving the goalpost.

You know, you keep accusing me of narrowing the options, but you aren`t particularly keen on offering any examples of what I`ve missed. Let`s see what you`ve got. If afterlife is different then what I think, then what should it be?

Since you don't seem to get it, I'll spell it out for you: The afterlife is literally any concept of what happens after someone dies. If I said what I thought it should be like, I'd be making the same mistake as you; assuming that my personal preferences matter. I repeat: This discussion is about any and all conceptions of the afterlife, based in a religion or completely literary, actually real or fully fictional; not just the ones you presumably enjoy hating on.

5109610
How do I imagine a life without sin? In all honesty, it's probably something we won't ever be able to guess the true meaning of, like so many other things involving the spiritual plane. We all have the capability to sin, so we can't know what it would be like to live completely free of it. But I can still take a few guesses.

The seven deadly sins wouldn't exist, or at the very least, we wouldn't contemplate doing them. The best way I could express it would be that we would just be inspired to just do the right thing. To be chaste, kind, diligent, humble, generous, patient, self-restrained, honest, trusting, and understanding with each other. One thing that I've taken to heart from the Bible is that there are only two emotions that Humans feel: Fear, and Love. With fear branching off into other darker emotions such as distrust, sadness, and hatred, and love branching off into the more positive feelings such as friendship, trust, and happiness. We would live in a world without fear as well as without sin.

...

Also, I would like to point out to anyone reading me and Cryotoxin's discussion that you can still apply what we're talking about to ponies as well if you get creative enough.

5109091

Where do ponies go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go to the lake of fire and fry
Won't see them again 'till the fourth of July

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