I've seen some authors use it... and I'm only using it as an incentive to work harder and to keep doing what I love wile I search for a full time job? I just announced my Patron, but one of my fans is afraid that this practice will lead to the destruction of Fimfiction. I don't no enough about copy wright laws to know if I'm out of bounds. What should I do?

4043113
I once thought about it, if I kept it and actually got money from it, I would've used it to fund original projects, but I ditched it because of a morality issue I have.

4043127 I certainly don't want to feel like a leech. I just wanted to motivate myself, and maybe if I make enough, I could publish some of my stories and sell them at con's where it's legal to do so.

edit: Even if it was I guess I be fine giving them out for free.

4043113 It's not illegal. You're creating an original work and therefor it falls under fair use. Although, the line is blurred a bit, so it really just hinges on whether you're okay with asking money or not.

4043131 I think if there is an issue, they won't go after FiM, they will go for Patreon. At least in a worst cast scinario, I rather see Patreon go down than fimfiction. This place is like my home online.

4043149
More than likely Hasbro legal will meet with Patreon legal to target accounts profiting on Hasbro's IP.

I am not quite sure if it would be legal or not. I suppose it depends on how original your story is. If it is a retelling of an episode probably not. However I have heard of people writing MLP fanfics and actually publishing their work so it is possible to do so.

4043113
Honestly, it doesn't matter if it's illegal or not. It's wrong. Profiting off fanfiction--unless granted express permission by the property holders--is wrong, pure and simple. This is a world, characters, an entire setting that we are guests in. We can play, we can explore, we can even experiment. That's how the medium grows. But if you want to make money, don't write fanfiction in a property you don't have permission in. This is a social and creative outlet, not a financial one.

Legal so long as users don't have to pay to view the story, just paid because he wrote it.

i.e. you pay someone $10 a month, I paid nothing, but we both got to view the same story.

Once you get exclusive access to a fanfic because you paid the author and other users don't, we'll have a problem.

4043146 Fanfiction isn't original work, it's derivative work. The essence of why its valuable comes from someone else's intellectual property.

This is a funny area. It's generally not treated as an issue of criminal law, so it's not "illegal" per se. However, the IP owner is within their right to issue you a cease and desist whenever they want, as well as filing civil actions seeking compensation for any "damage" they think you may have done to their property through the way you've treated it, so by no means do you have some guaranteed right to sell your fanfiction. Personally, I wouldn't.

Wow a lot of people are getting their comments deleted here. What do you suppose that is all about?

4043113

I've heard mention of Patreon but I have no idea what it is.

Is it something similar to Paypal donations?

4043501
From what I've gathered it's a site an artist sets up a portfolio or something and fans set up monthly donations to the artist, often with some kind of reward for donations that go over a certain threshold.

4043501 Same here. I always thought it was a donation site or something.

Edit: nevermind. I just refreshed the page

4043235 Luckily I was never going to do that.

Writing fanfiction is not illegal under any circumstances. While the owner of the intellectual property can request a C&D, they cannot force one on an author of fanfiction. It's allowed under fair use, and is as such protected by that section of copyright law.

Patreon is allowed exist by many governments, including Ireland and, in your case, the US. As such, it is also within its rights to function as it does.

A fanfiction author is allowed own a Patreon account, as is anyone who wishes to do so. An extension of that is that, everyone being allowed accept donations from patrons, fanfiction authors can accept donations from patrons. Still with me?

Finally, fair use does not yet say that Patreon is within or without its protection, but people who write fanfiction publish it on sites that are incapable of monetisation, so anyone who supports them on Patreon can only really be offered previews, sneak peeks and small extras. There's no monetisation of IP there, only a small thanks for the donation.

As Meeester said, as long as you don't provide exclusive access to your patrons to things using someone else's intellectual property, effectively monetizing said intellectual property, you're good.

It's not necessarily morally wrong to accept donations from willing patrons, either – morals aren't absolute. I have no moral code to speak of, some people have strong ones, and everyone has their own variation.
If you don't want to accept donations because you feel bad, then don't, but don't hide behind the "tihs isnt even leegul" argument, because that's not yet true.

Not saying it will or won't be, because I'm not your government. It's just not currently true. Until someone makes or changes a law, Hasbro cannot take down the site, a user, or even a story due to use of Patreon.

Have a good one.

4043235

If you actually thought it would cause any major problems, wouldn't you make a rule to say "Hey, we like this site, don't start posting links to your patreon here or set one up here or talk about it."

4043550

As to answer your question. I think since you are treating it more like you are providing a service rather than saying "You are paying me to write you can only view a story if you pay me this" then it should be ok. I mean, what if you had set up one outside of the site? And made it about say "Pay me to write?" Hasbro doesn't know what you are writing it for, it could be for a small book or something. At least that is how I look at ti.

4043113 It's legal as long as you call it a donation. Technically the act of just writing fanfiction is illegal in the first place (violating trademarks, copy writes, distributing stuff containing trademarks and copy you do not own...) but we don't care about that. You cant be arrested if your fans give you money because they like you. In the US at least.

4043146

it falls under fair use.

'Fair use' does not apply if you're getting paid for it.

4043573 Actually its NOT allowed under fair use. Our hobby is entirely illegal. Howeaver most companies have learned that fanfiction and fanworks build up more fans, meaning they get more money so they simply don't enforce the law. Seriously merely by writing the sentence "Twilight Sparkle walked to the store to get some eggs." I can be fined for violating a trademark owned by Hasbro.

There is a serious effort in the US to get legal protection for fanfic writers right now though.

4043874
Editing service is not restricted by copyright or trademark. ^.^

Now, if you were paying me to write, that could be a problem.

4043901
I did, but then it was just a picture of some doctor, and not even my favorite doctor.

4043113 Leaving aside the "ZOMG fanfic is so illegul!" thing, your Patreon will not "bring down" FimFiction. If there's a danger of that, I'm pretty sure the brass will ask you to take your stuff down or something.

The apocalyptic worries of some people amaze me.

If people can commission fan art and fanfiction, Patreon should be fine.

4043113 Regardless of its legality, I would say... don't.

4043113 as some say, don't.

Is fanfiction legal? The answer to that is "it depends".

From another thread on this subject matter:

Fair use covers a number of things; parody, satire, and commentary being the most well-established. What it does not cover is making unauthorized sequels, side stories, or spin-offs - and rightly so. The purpose of copyright is, in part, to restrict those things to the writer.

Fair use is not always clean-cut though; while protection for parody, satire, and commentary are all very strong, there is a huge legal gray area in the realm of derivative works, and many fair use rulings rely on judgement calls.

Things like Dash Academy, Button Mash Adventures, Eternal, Sunny Skies All Day Long, ect. are pretty obviously illegal. If Nickelodeon decided to make that stuff, they'd get their pants sued off and lose. Why? Because they are, fundamentally, unauthorized sequels and side stories. You can't just write a sequel to something you don't own the copyright to; you will get sued, and you will lose. In fact, this has already happened on several occasions in the past for commercially sold fanfiction - a number of fanfiction writers who have sold their work commercially have been drug into court and have either lost or settled out of court, with the fanfiction writer being on the losing end of the settlement. The most famous of these is probably 60 Years Later: Coming Through the Rye, whose distribution was banned in the US after a lawsuit from JD Salinger.

On the other hand, something like Cupcakes, Rainbow Factory, Princess Celestia Hates Tea, or Martial Bliss is clearly legit.

Take my own works. The Legend of Falling Rocks is pretty unambiguously legal, and it is doubtful you'd win a fight over The Collected Poems of Maud Pie on the basis of copyright on the text (though the title/cover would probably have to be changed). Abandoned Sanctuary and The Stars Ascendant are commentary. Better Lairs and Landscaping, Proper Anatomical Terminology, and Apple Shampoo are all parody.

I would say you'd be pretty stupid to sue over those.

Others occupy a legal gray area. Ruin Value and The Butterfly's Burden may both qualify as commentary, but they might not as well; it is hard to say. A judge might not just toss that out on its ear.

On the extreme other end, I'd hate to defend Dawn and Dusk in court. Hasbro could very easily argue that they are unauthorized prequels using the same characters. They almost certainly would not bother to sue me over them because that would be extremely stupid and pointless (and they would lose money on the proposition), but they could. And it would be hard for me to win - not impossible, mind you, as fair use is not super clean cut and is something of a judgement call, but it would not be easy.

The TL; DR is that fanfiction often inhabits a legal gray area; some of it is legal, some of it is illegal. A lot of it is not clearly either.

If you are just collecting a fairly marginal amount of money per month from what you're doing, it is unlikely that anyone is going to sue you because no one cares.

If you are collecting tons of money per month, then you become much more attractive as a target for a lawsuit.

There are other people with Patreon accounts on the site, so you are not going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Also, be aware that you probably aren't going to get that much money.

4043231 yes I would agree that making money on fan fiction is wrong, but this isn't what was asked. what this person is asking is if accepting donations are legal or not for fan fiction. Fan fiction has always been put out into the public for free. donations, in essence is sending money to a creator, not because you have to, but because you want to. So basically, the money is for the creator, NOT the work. Now don't get me wrong, I find the idea of making money on my writing revolting, but this was never a question if it's morally right.

4044863
Which is why I led with saying that it doesn't matter if it's legal or not, the morality comes in first. It doesn't matter how you might want to try circling around it, you're still receiving money for your work as a fan fiction creator. That's the promise you're making with a Patreon. Or a donation jar. Or anything. No one is giving you money for any other reason.

4043834
You sure?

4044884 I just got done with a legal battle over my Dr. Who fiction. I'm fine, and the BBC decided to drop charges, but I had to stop selling writing time. The only real legal thread they had was I was listing the money as a transaction, not a donation.

4044878 yes, all very true, but again I state that it's a legal question, not a moral one. If this person ask whether they should do this or not from a morality stand point I would be more then willing to scold them for even considering this, but I was asked a legal question. So I will answer it from a legal stand point without involving morals or feelings.

Please, just leave it at that. We both said what we need too, and should be left at that.

4044066

Are you familiar with the people claiming FiMFiction Gon Ded?

Scuttlebutt about the End of Everything seems to be a popular pastime on this website.

4044921 Is that something else, or just more generalized angst?

I keep wondering if the real reason people love telling themselves that fanfiction is totally illegal is because it makes them feel edgy.

4044932

Well, have you read the blog concerning Knighty's plans to launch another fiction-writing (non-pony) website? Even if she does so, I can't see where the "FimFic Gon Ded" people are coming from. All that means is that she will have two websites. And I really don't think the FiM Fandom is going to go away overnight, as people are implying.

I keep wondering if the real reason people love telling themselves that fanfiction is totally illegal is because it makes them feel edgy.

Bingo. As ol' Occam said, the simplest answer is, often, the correct one.

4044932
I think it is more because it is a legal gray area; some of it is illegal, and you do see fanworks get taken down periodically (Button Mash's Adventures being one of the most notable, along with Fighting is Magic) so it is a fairly reasonable question to ask, especially as the answer is not really cut-and-dried.

People doing legal activities which they believe incorrectly to be illegal is not really a problem anyway; it is when people are doing illegal activities which they believe to be legal/justified that they get in trouble. All you have to do is look at some of the more piracy-oriented sites and you see all sorts of nutters who claim that piracy is totally legal, really! And even if it wasn't, it should be, so there!

Same with the tax evaders and similar folks.

That's far more worrisome.

Really, asking "is this legal" before you do something is much smarter than asking it afterwards (or not at all).

4043830 Forgot about that part, sorry. Still, I've seen some people put up Patreon accounts. And whenever they do that, they aren't paying for the writing, they're giving money to the writer. But again, it's all about morals. If you don't think asking for money's a good thing, then don't.

4045088

She was talking about fanfiction in particular, not all fanworks.

Besides, the Fighting is Magic project seems to be back on track, unless the Wiki article is out of date.

4044909
That's very different. They were annoyed at you for selling fanfiction, which I mentioned in my comment. Fanfiction's still legal, protected by fair use as a parody. Donations are also allowed.

Patreon is a donation platform. 'S still allowed.

4044951
I'm pretty sure Knighty is a guy, and I cite this as evidence.

4048599

You mean Knighty isn't actually a small baby pony named Sweetie Belle, wearing glasses?

Heresy!