love the chapter

Twilight and Spoke sure do make for good minions.

This chapter was fun.

I just wanted to note you, like the others, that your story is being enjoyed and I sincerely hope you will continue.

As a writer myself I generally like to leave more feed back (that is what I like to get) but in this case I am not sure how to do that without making it sound like I am hoping to affect your story....but if you are interested DM me and I am happy to say more

I love this story.
I would love to see some hypnotic rival/warfare being introduced, with a "hypno action scene".
After all, with two princesses and a dragon in her grasp, the power balance might seem close to being on Starlights side.
But those twists and turns could give us a truly unexpected ride!

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There are certainly a few twists and turns coming. Hope you like them when they arrive.

I'm happy to see this story continue. This and FiMC:C are on my eager list.

“We’\ll be gone

Minor typo there.

Pink Fluffy Unicorns Dancing on Rainbows ... now, what color is their magical fur?

Now, Luna ... somehow, I don't think Luna will go into trance easily or anything like that. She has to keep her mind straight when she's in a dream walk, right?

Unless ... unless she is thinking she's in someone's dream when she's being tranced. Hmm. Is Starlight going to learn how to do lucid dreaming and try to trance Luna in a dream? Pretty risky, no. But perhaps some magic to catch Luna while she's in someone's dreams? That seems really unlikely, where would such spells even be recorded?

Honestly, at this point I'm hoping Starlight ends up deciding "evil" is a waste and instead decides to at least play along with being "reformed" in order to get her happy ending as hypnodomme and Twilight's mistress. No "oh I've been hypnotized but now I snap out of it at the last minute to defeat you" or anything of the sort.

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This is an interesting question. What does "The End" look like for this story?

Do we wind up with Starlight in charge of Equestria?

Are the various Alicorns just a facade of being rulers, with Starlight as the real ruling regent?

For that matter, what does removing the hypnosis -- if that even happens -- look like?

That's a serious question, especially for Twilight, who has been under the deepest for the longest. Hypnosis is not really "trivial to remove/counter". The whole idea is that your basic reaction to something is altered/changed.

Remove the ability of Starlight to influence her into the future? Sure. All the changes/influences done to date?

That sort of "deprogramming" is not trivial.

What happens to Twilight's sense of "Self" when she's no longer "Starlight's submissive slave"? Even if she recognizes that her behavior was given to her by Starlight, and she no longer wants to listen to Starlight's ideas, she still is now seeing herself as submissive; does she just change who she submits to?

We are talking months or years of therapy to recover their prior "self". Someone like Rarity, who has only gotten rather light treatment might recover faster; Shining and Cadance have each other and can recover together, faster. Heck, Rainbow might have that whole "I'll resist you" bit to help her with.

But I'm trying to figure out how you can get a "happy" ending out of this.

Either way, I'm looking forward to more story.

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That's why my thought is don't have her "lose." Hypnosis is largely ineffective if you aren't on some level willing. Like, I know the hollywood idea is that it's a backdoor into your brain, but it absolutely isn't. All hypnosis is technically self-hypnosis, you guide and control it, others can just influence possibilities in trance. Starlight would have had to do intensive brainwashing if there was no part of Twilight that agreed - she's been doing classic hypnotic conditioning and deepening, which leads me to think it's less "cruelly brainwashing a friend" and more "part of Twilight was interested the whole time." People in places of power and stress (like, say, a princess) tend to be easier to hypnotize, because on some level they tend to want to give up control. They want to allow themselves to let someone else carry the burden for a while, which makes them some of the best subjects I've ever had.

Perhaps it's cruel, but my ideal "good ending" would be Starlight realizing she's actually fallen for Twilight during her whole charade, and agonizing over the question of "more power" or "enjoy life." In the end she would side with Twi, allowing her old dreams to fade, and creating new ones with the first person to care for her.

In the end, the hypnosis wouldn't be responsible for a radical personality shift, just uncovering buried thoughts and feelings.

Also Luna would have seen everything in both of their dreams (including Starlight's real goals at the time) and been laughing to herself in the background since she knows the truth about hypnosis and D/S, and thinks Twilight needs to relax by any means necessary. She's been keeping a close eye on them since she doesn't want Starlight to accidentally hurt Twilight long-term, but has seen no reason to intercede yet.

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Sadly, this really is not true.

You cannot use hypnosis to push someone past their limit lines, sure.
** BUT YOU CAN MOVE THOSE LIMIT LINES OVER TIME **

You can do all sorts of abusive stuff with brainwashing / cult programming / conditioning in the awake state. Hypnosis makes it easier to do that stuff.

There is a difference between "Twilight was willing to give up control like this", and "Twilight was manipulated slowly over time to change her behavior". Consider that in this story, no one resists Starlight once they are dropped -- this may be classical inductions, but it is magically enhanced trances once you are down.

she's been doing classic hypnotic conditioning and deepening, which leads me to think it's less "cruelly brainwashing a friend" and more "part of Twilight was interested the whole time."

I look at this as "let's move her needle a little bit each time, so that her subconscious doesn't see a large change, but there no way she'd agree to this out of trance". Your thought process in trance is not the same, and you can be pushed to agree to something while in trance that you'd never agree to out of it.

I can assure you, from personal experience, it is possible for hypnosis to change your outlook on things in a way that you do not like, and have trouble reversing because by the time you realize what the change is, you've got a LOT of conditioned response built up. And it doesn't require malice or bad intent by the 'tist; it's sufficient if you just trust them and their intent that you just don't question it during the trance. (And that "let it go, turn off the critical facility" nature of trance is, personally, so dang attractive -- really have learned the importance of pre-trance negotiation and NOT IMPROVISING after starting.)

I can also assure you that it does not take trance to do this as well. Heck, a simple "I don't want to hurt you/disappoint you" deep belief can get someone to change their attitude/outlook without realizing it.

===

Luna.

Let's talk about the alicorn in the room. Luna.

Friendship is Mind Control had to deal with "What stops Luna from completely disabling Twilight", and did it in a perfectly believable manner. Heck, Luna not only could have won there, but if she had any real combat experience, she would have. She lost there only because she did not know what Twilight's spell could do, and really, neither did Twilight.

Here? If Luna actually knows what Starlight is doing? There's no way she'd allow this to happen, not that I can see. This isn't just "Twilight relaxes". This is a complete change in what Twilight agrees to do. This is a change over time in what Twilight considers acceptable.

As long as Luna thinks it's just "downtime play", sure.
As soon as she becomes aware that it's more than this? That it's altered her real-world behavior?

FiMC dealt with the Celestia question in a very unexpected manner. We've seen no clue here how Celestia will be handled. Heck, we've seen no indication how Fluttershy will be handled, or if she will be. Consider what Discord would do to anyone that hurts her. What will Fluttershy do if she ever finds out about this?

We're talking about the pony that stood up to the Cockatrice to defend foals.
We're talking about the pony that, when push came to shove, turned out to have massive wing power for that hurricane when needed.
We're talking about the pony that has learned how to speak up for what she believes in.

This is not season 1 Fluttershy anymore. And she's got pretty strong power to back her up.

Luna, Celestia, Fluttershy, Discord -- what can Starlight possibly see as her end-game here?

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Trust me, I'm aware, ha ha. I regularly practice hypnosis with several subjects (recreationally mostly). However that sort of change takes a LOT of time. There's a Literotica story called Limits that has a fairly realistic take on incremental brainwashing, with upwards of 80 sessions to change a mind to diametrically oppose what it was before, so I was going with the idea that while, yes, Starlight could have brainwashed Twilight over a period of several months, we don't get the sense that it took that long. And yes, magic does lean this more into the hollywood style hypnosis, but still if this is based on real hypnosis, the time doesn't allow for a full mental shift in the given period. She'd have to be intensively brainwashing Twilight each day, which isn't really viable, especially when she has to keep it secret. I find it much more likely that Twilight did indeed want to give up control, at least a little, and Starlight used that as a base for her alterations.

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Consider how much she gets into all of them. It's not just that Twilight is suddenly so completely passive/submissive.

I actually went back, and re-read some of this. Starlight says she hypnotized Twilight dozens of times before she became hers, so we are talking about a slow and gradual shift of boundaries beyond any initial acceptance/willingness.

Rarity has basically ... I don't think I could describe that change without getting into moderation trouble :-).

Cadence and Shining ...
Sure, the whole thing with Shining started with some good therapeutic usage (adult rated, but still valid) of hypnosis. And from there, it went to ... well, more dominance. And then both of them -- this just seemed so far past "Real" hypnosis at this point that it pretty much seems to be magically enhanced.

Rainbow ... I can understand hypnotic amnesia blocking out the memory of what happened. Heck, she had to use an explicit magic spell to help her on the induction. And the backlash of it causing her to be so distrustful of Starlight, sure. And the second personality of Twilight acting as Rainbow's ... what do you call that?

Twilight's change, over dozens of trances, is well past any ethical limits. Starlight did use magic to get the initial push/trancing past her critical facility, and then used psychology tricks to push her past her previous limits.

Cadence, Rarity, Shining -- all three of them like that seems unrealistic without magical push. I can't see all of them willingly becoming such sexual submissives, and that much alteration does not feel like "this is what we really wanted, and we are consenting here". Rarity does actually show a little sign of limits, in the photoshoot. But as a whole, they seem slightly more than normal hypnosis -- not that any one of them is not possible, but that all of them being like that is just so unlikely.

Pinkie, AJ, Fluttershy; Luna, Celestia. Heck, do you really think that Trixie would notice all the changes in the castle and not get some investigating?

There is no safe way to take Fluttershy given Discord. Even taking everyone else, Discord would see it as a game to give her a challenge, and Fluttershy will notice her friends all behaving differently. Heck, what if a little bird tells Fluttershy what was seen in the bedroom?

I'm at the point of thinking that Starlight's plan only makes sense if she was only planning on Twilight and Spike, with everyone else just lightly convinced to look the other way. And, at some point she did decide to go after everyone.

Re-reading, yes, she's even planning to take Fluttershy. She was debating to take her instead of Rainbow. There is no way that hypnotizing Fluttershy is safe because there's no way she'd be able to handle Discord.

Starlight actually says, at one point,

Hypnosis can mold your inner self, but it’s not like a spell that imposes change. You need avenues into the mind, ways to take what your subject values and use them as leverage to add your changes.

Which is accurate. Find out something that matters, and use that as leverage to change something else. And at that point you are altering someone, changing their limits, conditioning a new personality -- and that's past anything that Celestia or Luna would permit, forgive, or not go full-on "stoning!" for.

Yea, re-read chapter 13. Starlight's discussion how she has used hypnosis to manipulate Twilight, Spike, and Rarity, and how she'll use Twilight to complete Rarity later. Can you think for a moment that Luna or Celestia would be ok with hearing that, and not using season 9 ending power-level magic on her?

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I'm really happy to see so much thought and analysis put into the story :) It warmed my heart seeing the last few posts. I don't want to reveal any future plans but want to offer some clarity on my thoughts with how hypnosis is being portrayed in this.

As for how Starlight can deal with the listed characters, and other characters of importance, I will just say that I have placed a great deal of thought into each. And oh yes, if Luna or Celestia get a clear idea of what's going on while still in their right minds Starlight will be dead in the water :P

I have tried to create a "mostly" grounded approach to using hypnosis, but have have allowed for an exaggerated power of hypnosis in terms of the rate changes and efficacy of some approaches. I very much detest the kinds of mind control stories where a single trance equals total control, and the process of slowly guiding someone into control is fundamental. Sometimes magic is used to help with things, but is not the primary driver of control.

As was pointed out,the idea that hypnosis can't make you do something you don't want to is overly simplistic. With enough time and built rapport, hypnosis can theoretically make someone do anything you could convince them to do without hypnosis, and the world is full of stories of malicious and manipulative people that convince others to do and believe all kinds of things.

When it comes to Shining Armor and Cadence, their submissiveness is not from Starlight's suggestions but a baked in convenience (deus ex subchina?). I've seen a lot of fan head-canon that suggests the Princess of Love and her husband would be into some kinky stuff and I've chosen to have my versions of Cadence and Shining Armor as two submissive leaning switches who trade with each other on a frequent basis and had this relationship before they ever met Starlight. This is partially inspired from two close friends with a similar sort of dynamic. In this chapter, they behave the way they do because the trance has convinced them that they are sleeping with each other and not Twilight and Spike respectively, and that both can act out the kind of submissive role-play they like when their partner is the one topping.

Rarity is likely the one who has taken to a suggestion the most rapidly overall. I'm always on a certain line of trying to balance between being more grounded in hypnosis as an application and maintaining a favorable flow and pacing of story, and Rarity is far from done in terms of Starlight getting her anywhere near the level of control she has Twilight and Spike under.

The next chapter should be out soon and help show a few more steps for one of the characters.

Ohh! New Chapter Soon! YES!!!

I mean, "Please sir, may I have some more?"

So I figured I'd take a look around the early chapters of bringing Twilight under control.

Twilight was focused on the huge magical energies in front of her and didn’t notice the Fiducia Compelus spell that she had cast. It was a weak spell, only able to plant a small suggestion in someone’s mind. Starlight offered a simple suggestion, to focus on the lights and listen to her voice.

Did you ever notice that between Starlight and Sunburst's comments about mind manipulation spells there's a *LOT* of mental magic in this world? If anything, I'm really surprised that no one has attempted hypnotic takeover yet (oh, wait, fimfic is full of these stories), nor that anyone came up with mental defense spells. And that's before a trio of foals can brew a potion that is Cadence/Cupid in a bottle.

Yes, if you have a magic spell to trigger the focus of hypnosis, and the whole "here's your desire of reformation", Twilight going down in that first chapter makes sense. As does the whole "I'll use magic to get you to find the entry on submission" plus "I'll talk to you while your mind is off balance, and I'll even encourage that off-balance bit" -- no different than the pattern interrupt style of trancing, move in with a suggestion of "lets try this" before you can recover.

Hmm. Chapter 2.5 is interesting, I'm not sure I really gave it full attention before. Twilight's had that massage, and the dream-state trance, and what looked like an initial "be attracted to me" suggestion. And here, her subconscious is going full-steam into steamy mode.

When I take charge, it makes it easier for you to just get lost in pleasure.”
Twilight’s hand descended under her skirt. “Yeah, it’s really good when you take charge. You could just push me against a wall, mollify me with a kiss.”

Alright, it seems that there's at least a _little_ something in her base personality for someone else to be in charge. And ... I suppose that makes sense. Always looking to parents, or teachers, or Celestia, for someone to tell her where to be focused/studying next.

And yes, Starlight is doing a step by step personality alteration on her. Bringing out / emphasizing some aspects very very strongly with reinforcement.