Just saw the feature film! (Small spoilers, obvs.) · 3:24am Oct 11th, 2017
Went in expecting to be disappointed, and... I... wasn't?
I mean, sure, I could pick at the flaws. There were certainly enough. They didn't sell some of the plot twists as much as they could've. There was, like one too much of everything: one too many special guest stars, one too many flashy set pieces, one too many big musical numbers. Fluttershy did about a single useful thing the whole time. Worfed princesses, as was preordained. Grubber should have been in some other movie somewhere far away. Possibly one released on another planet, one orbiting a star in some other galaxy. Pinkie seemed to have crossed the border into actual madness. There was some crazy 
going on with the animation. In lieu of actual direction, someone told Liev Schrieber to be James Woods in Disney's Hercules and then gave him about five minutes on screen.
I left the place smiling, having had a great time. I haven't felt that good watching a movie in a theater in literally twenty years. Your mileage may vary.
EDIT: Updating this with a comment I made on another blog as it might be relevant: this blog post wasn't intended to nitpick. It was trying to just get the few things I remembered questioning out of the way in one paragraph, because I enjoyed almost everything else. Writing a post about THAT couldn't be done late at night because it would've taken me until way past my bedtime. Sorry if frontloading it with nitpicks came across as overly-negative.
Cadance was clearly the biggest threat.
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Gotta say, if you're gonna get Worfed, that was a pretty badass way to go down.
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Actually, as you mention that, her popping a shield bubble, I think the writers might have had Shining Armor in mind, then realized they already had too many characters and just said, have Cadance do it.
I had a similar experience when I went to see it a few days ago—noticed several flaws but had a damn good time. Inexplicably, though, I had a lot more fun when I saw the first Equestria Girls movie in theaters, despite this being a far superior film. Guess I've just grown more jaded with time. Still, probably gonna go see it again with some other friends later this week.
Also left the theater with about a dozen different story ideas buzzing inside my head. Like, that Transformation Pearl Queen Novo has is just begging to be expanded upon.
I've spent the past few days pointing out the myriad flaws with the movie.
I'm still going to watch it as many times as physically possible and then write a bunch of fics about Tempest and possibly the rest of the guest stars.
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Yeah, the Home Front scenes were busy enough as is, although Cady is no slouch with shields herself (cf. Magic Health Bubble).
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Had the Royal Sisters gone down while giving a solid effort like Cadance did, I think that would actually raise my rating of the movie up a whole point, from 7/10 to 8/10.
While I wasn't fond of the movie due to a number of flaws that were hard to ignore, I'm glad you had fun watching it. That being said, some of the animation was gorgeous, and Sia's song at the end was admittedly pretty.
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I gotta admit I don't understand "Worfed". I know Nerfed, but not Worfed. ARe they supposed to be the same thing?
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"Worfed" is something people clamor about under the mistaken headcanon that the princesses, being immortal, are also supposed to be badasses.
It originates from the Star Trek: The Next Generation character, Worf. He's a klingon, and supposed to be a badass like all klingons. Good melee/martial skills, warrior race/culture, strong, aggressive, and so on.
The show often shows you how dangerous a bad guy is by taking Worf out easily. Overuse of that trope led to it gaining negative connotation. Because Worf gets taken down so often that he never actually gets to demonstrate being a badass.
The princesses were only ever assumed to be baddasses, some would argue implied. I disagree.
Yeah..... there were a lot of flaws in the story, also the fact that nopony remembers 'Hey we have a reality warping chaos god on our side, maybe we should ask him for help'. Or how nopony puts up any fight, despite that many ponies should be able to demolish the forces given how easily they go down in the finale, and that one pegasus with a pointy stick could pop all their zeppelins. There was still a whole nation left to rally and fight back, not to mention all of Equestria allies, and every other being on the planet that things the having the being the controls the very sun itself being threatened like that isn't that good for the health of anything living on the planet...
Yeah lots of plot holes (even more since this takes place after the finale what were Starswirl and the rest of the Pillars doing?
And yet.... it was just so damn FUN! So vibrant, and amazing, and the songs were just such a blast, and the heart of things was spot on, and just.... yeah, you can't not smile all through the movie. You just, can't think oto hard about some of it.
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Eeeyah, that was shorthand on my part. You are absolutely correct that no canon has ever shown Celestia to be the supercool superawesome world-destroying badass many fans (including myself) like to see her as in our private imaginings, so in all fairness it's less of a "flaw" and more of an "expected and understandable but disappointing" sorta thing.
Honestly, I consider it the best thing to come out of the franchise.
And it's my favorite animated movie of all time.
So any flaws that exist don't matter to me.
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Glad you enjoyed yourself!
Yeah, easily the worst part of the film. Removing him would have both made the movie much better, but it would have also solved your complaint of one too many celebrity voices. Which is too bad because I love Michael Pena as an actor. Tempest was awesome, and she had one of the best villain songs period. Animation could be a bit weird at times, particularly with the crying.
Overall, though, I had a great time watching it, too.
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I don't know why Tempest needed another foil than the Storm King. I get that villains need someone to talk to, but since they obviously had alchemical cell phones and Stormy was enough of a goon to completely and satisfactorily offset Tempest's Edgelady leanings all by himself had they used him more, it just made Grubber seem totally pointless.
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Yeah you'd think that the Wonderbolts should have taken out a few zeppelins before being overwhelmed by sheer numbers or something but they didn't do anything to even one. Of course them being even more useless than the regular guard is a long standing tradition at this point.
I guess I can't ignore the fact that, ignoring the fact that it's related to the show, it's a pretty average kids movie. And if I had to judge it as a film, and I do because it is a film, I'd have to give like a C? Keep in mind, I didn't like Big Hero 6 and Zootopia much either, and I can admit those are better-made films.
Maybe the whole fandom hype thing didn't work on me. The most fun I've had at the movies in the past ten years would probably be Mad Max: Fury Road, which has so far been the only movie I've seen four times in theaters. Was worth it every time.
I'm glad a lot of people have been able to enjoy the movie greatly in spite of its many flaws, though admittedly that makes me resent them at the same time. I wish I could be as easily satisfied with a movie as a lot of other people. Kinda leads to feeling bitter on the inside.
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See, I was totally not hyped. I was originally not going to see it on the big screen at all and just wait for the video release or something. Then I remembered that on the occasion of EQG's limited theatrical release I had petulantly growled "DAMNIT WHY DOES EQG GET THE BIG SCREEN TREATMENT / I'M NOT SEEING THIS / CALL ME WHEN THEY MAKE AN ACTUAL MLP MOVIE." I figured it would make a liar out of me to skip this now, however many years later.
Plot conveniences, plot holes, no cares for getting people new to the ponies into the world's lore and magics and a villain you only see for all of 5 minutes at best throughout the whole movie who dies another male horrific death who had no chance to build or reform someone whose had trust issues apparently and could have had a real connection with a similar character namely Tempest.
So much could have been done but overall I didn't give two craps about as I loved the movie to pieces!
Idk about you but totally loved Skystar, even if Nova was bleh. Celaeno didn't get a chance to shine sadly. Capper had a great song and great character, for what we were given. Rainbow's song was fun and even Tempest song was really nice.
Sadly a lot of these things like Fluttershy being a yay machine and punchline giver for a few jokes was demeaning to her but AJ didn't get much either far as time to shine went.
The Pinkie Pie Movie had its momemts though. Sadly it was aimed squarely at the super young fans mainly but we did get a few grim and some other hokes older audiences only would get.
I'm all over the place but on its own I really liked the animations with more 3Dness to the flat vector animations we're so used to seeing. Seems Twilight's bowlcut mane is extended with her having a bowlcut tail. Lol
The expressions and pony pudginess shined well for all I thought. Certainly looked better than the trailers led me to think.
But aside from post production or late background pony additions added to Canterlot with Trixie and GlomGlam, I see very little connection to say it's between seasons 7 and 8.
I guess the biggest problem I have is sayin we should read the comics which are supposed to be official canon backstories to the movie characters from Storm King, Capper, Captain Celaeno and Tempest.
I'm glad I refused to read those comics before the movie. This big super terrible thing Storm King was supposed to do in the actual movie but got cut, only to be placed I suppose in the comic, is just terrible. No movie should have to rely on other sources to build up a character or understand the motivations or distrust of others in a movie.
But enough blabbering. I'm glad we finally got a pony movie with actual mane 6 ponies in it as ponies doing things together as a group again without the built up mary sue to trivialized despite plot convenience showing up late in the movie to make you wonder why you ever had trouble the very first encounter.
I'm still blabbering. . .
So as a viewer, attedee, person who loves the mane 6, I totally loved the movie and it's clever marketing jokes and the animation of the ponies for the most part. Storm King disappointment but the other new charates save for Nova were entertaining and fun.
Even if like 2 of the songs were lazy ponified stuff and many of the main songs felt by the numbers at the very least most were entertaining, though many I wouldn't listen to without the visual accompanyment.
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By the way, sorry you're feeling bitter on the inside. If you need or want to talk it out, my box is open.
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I have seen a lot of people disappointed that the good guys seemed to be taken down rather fast. That didn't bother me personally.
I'd like to note that the show is "Friendship is Magic." None of the girls, except Rainbow Dash, are military. Yes they have faced dangerous opponents before, but all of them have been pretty magical in nature, talkative for the most part, and when things switch to violence, it is often abstracted (Elements of Harmony=friendship laser). Even when Twilight faced Tirek, it took the Golden Oaks Library being blown up (all those books! D: ) to get her committed to inflict direct physical harm. There are a few other examples here and there in the series, but most of the time it is "blast it with magic lasers from horn" rather than "kick it in the face and draw blood."
The show makes a lot of abstractions, and uses symbolism and presence to convey stuff, rather than explicit depictions. You couldn't really expect them to show scores and scores of armored warriors actually brutally shooting and stabbing ponies. A lot of people were bothered by what little they did show in the movie!
So when the Storm Lord's forces show up, I just accepted what they were clearly trying to show. Someone badass enough to invade another nation. I don't assume the good guys should just crush any comers. These guys were treated as serious business, the rest of the world treated them as serious business, so even if they didn't show the violent confrontation on first contact, they showed enough to give you that idea.
Tempest was shown to be a badass. She was aggressive, willing to inflict injury, fast, and you could easily imagine she might dodge lasers, and probably be up in opponents' grills before they could get a spell off. She had her own magical tricks and items to back up, and was all in all depicted as a big threat.
Discord not being around is understandable. He's an antisocial jerkwad. Why would he want to come to the Friendship Festival? And why does everyone just assume he'd help? Fluttershy wasn't captured. He's chaotic and fickle. Maybe he was watching and thought this was all hilarious, while knowing/expecting the M6 to fix it like they always do. And did.
Sure, they could have shown a tiny bit more fight out of the princesses and other characters. The point of the story is that they lose this confrontation though, and I don't feel those concessions really would have added much.
Other things, like saying pegasi could poke holes in zeppelins have clearly never seen real military zeppelins. And those suggestions assume they're not armed for some reason. All in all, it feels like a lot of the dissatisfaction with the conflict lies with not being willing to accept the bad guys as credible threats, even though the movie presented them as such.
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It's kind of a weird effect that I've seen with a lot of other folks. Because even people who loved the movie have pointed out a lot of problems with it, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be so forgiving if it was just another kids movie to them. There are, of course, people who are hating on it without mercy, and then there's people like me who're kind of in the middle. It could be the charm of seeing these beloved characters on the big screen, though as several critics and bronies have pointed out, what may be endearing to some will be really annoying to others, and I get both viewpoints on that.
I guess it's better that I saw the movie before all the praise (legitimate or just fanboy masturbation) started to pile up, because usually what happens to me with these kids movies is that I hear about all the praise first, then see the movie, and find myself deeply unsatisfied. With a few exceptions, of course. But the MLP movie is still an odd case.
He did seem like one of the aliens from Space Jam
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Except for comic canon.
After reading several reviews, I'm getting the idea that the people who come out disappointed are the ones who went in determined to be disappointed.
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World-destroying might be a stretch, but I feel like people are swinging far enough into a retcon to argue that they were never shown or implied to be any kind of badass themselves in the show. They took out Sombra, originally... Quested for, found the Elements of Harmony and used them to petrify Discord, and they tore up the Castle of the Two Sisters something fierce when they fought each other. Hell, even the start of the "Worfing" played close to the trope by having Chrysalis marvel that she has been made "Even more powerful than Celestia!" Additionally, there is how the power of 4 Alicorns contained in Twilight was apparently the equal of all of the other pony magic in Equestria (+Discord's chaos magic) contained in Tirek.
That seems like a fair amount of canon that either outright showed them kicking ass or heavily implied that they were packing a lot of ass-kicking potential.
4694301 Now, I can see *why* they used Gruber. He's Spike. Without him, there is no 'face' for Tempest to talk with, other than herself, and she's portrayed as crazy enough. Now, if they had brought the Storm King in earlier and used Tempest as a 'face' for him, that would have worked, but it would have muted Big Bad's entrance later. He fits the Surrounded by Idiots trope, so Tempest can be a bad-flank, and the Storm King can be a bad-flank, and he gets spongecake. Besides, this is a *kids* cartoon, and he's the tension breaker. It's not supposed to get into high-tension scenes, because the kids get all tense and etc...
Balance.
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There’s also the Crystal War timeline, where Applejack says, “Even with Princess Celestia leading the charge, it still takes everypony doing their part.” The “even with” implying that Celestia’s contribution to the war effort is considerable, either as a strategist or a martial presence on the battlefield, possibly both.
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Plus he didn't have a single funny or interesting moment. He was a massive misstep.
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That would have worked better if, you know, he said a single funny thing. Instead he was just annoying.
I've seen it twice. I went in with low expectations wanting to like it.
But I was, above all else, bored. Bored, and then just depressed because no matter how gorgeous the movie was (and it was gorgeous), and how Tempest/Skystar were fantastic, for the most part I just saw characterization being assassinated one too many times for plot convenience.
And - well, especially after the Amazing that is the season finale, the movie? It's...it's what we got, but it's sure as heck not what I wish it was, and doesn't live up to the standards the franchise can pull off.
Rainbow Rocks remains the best MLP movie, and I do think if this one weren't animated in Toonboom it wouldn't have nearly as positive a reception as it does not, because the story....wasn't.
For myself, I have to give the film a 2.5/5. I thought it was alright, with some good part, but with some major flaws that held it way back from becoming really good for me. The princesses getting Worfed was expected, there were far too many celebrity VAs that got way too emphasized for their parts, and Grubber was by far the worst part of the movie for me. Really, me and my friends were constantly joking about saying "Shut up, Neelix!" every time he opened his mouth. Grubber is exactly what's wrong with comedic sidekick characters gone wrong.
But instead of merely bitching, I'm going to offer some suggestions for how the movie might have been made better. Because the movie felt like it needed to go through a few more rounds of rewrites, and was plagued by meddling that said "we need more celebrity VAs!" First off, have Tempest bring down the hammer down on the hippogryphs first, and show them fleeing her wrath as she tries to get their McGuffin. This can let Queen Novo, possibly sending Princess Skystar to act as messenger, ask Equestria for help. Naturally, Princess Celestia summons our heroes to go forth and do their thing in the name of harmony and friendship. This has the advantage of avoiding jobbing the princesses, lets Tempest show how much of a threat she is, and gives the Mane 6 a clear goal in saving the hippogrphys from Tempest (where in the film the girls were to go to the hippogryphs and then...?).
From there I would just cut out most of the celebrity VAs. I could feel the movie grinding to a halt every time one of them showed up, and the movie desperately trying to make me care about characters that for the most part were superfluous to the plot. Capper and Grubber can be cut from the movie without losing anything of value. Probably the same for the Storm King. His motivations were so vague and he got so little screentime that he really isn't needed to make this movie. Really, this movie needed to be put on a treadmill to cut the fat, and focus on the things that made it good and the actual main characters of the movie.
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That was sort of intended to be "no in-show canon and those chapter books confirmed to be in-show canon." Gosh, this is confusing.
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Hm. I had dismissed some of this as being superpowered by the Elemenrs and/or Nightmare Entities, but there's some other things I was overlooking at time of post.
I just want a Celestia episode where she fights elder gods. Is that so wrong?
Basically my reaction. There are plenty of nits to pick, but overall, this was a fun experience. Plus an Act One moment of heroism that had me staunchly on the movies side for at least twenty lines of Grubber dialogue.
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For real. I expect to see a movie throwback with a stained glass widow of a certain bubble butt pony.
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Hell no. I was incredibly disappointed in that effort and I didn't go in that way. I didn't have high expectations, either, but I expected better writing for a feature film, never mind if it's for kids or not. I would have liked to be surprised by quality, for once.
The trip to find Queen Novo was a false mission. The pearl wasn't acquired, Novo and her Hippogriffs did not come to the ponies' aid. They only recruited Skystar out of that trip. The five parrot pirates and Capper were a lucky bonus, and they were the ones who caused enough of a distraction for Twilight to use "Talk To The Enemy".
Despite that, it took Tempest switching sides only because she got backstabbed by her boss and then saved by Twilight's instincts. She wasn't inspired by friendship, just plucked from the brink.
The musical numbers were mostly unnecessary (compare how they were used to how they were used in Moana). Capper's was okay, but the animations that went with it were patently ridiculous for the ponies in that situation. The Pirates on their unionized lunch break was a great idea, but dumped as soon as Rainbow sang them a weak song (probably because of time constraints). Pinkie Pie's song for Skystar was probably the best of the lot, in my opinion, because it moved the plot along. Villain song with backstory? Eh. Not baaad.
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I, too, desperately want this.
4694445.
I say build to it with an episode where Cadance and Shining Armor investigate a lost expedition north of the Crystal Empire in caves filled with giant albino penguins, and a map quest where the Mane 6 are sent to the rainy seaside town of Stablemouth. Then the season finale can open with a fishing boat trawling the depths of Luna's Sea when an unexpected storm comes upon them. Sighting a Mare overboard, they pull up a mustard colored Pegasus with a grey gradient mane clutching some drift wood. At first she will only rock back and forth, muttering "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", but then in a sudden moment of sanity, she frantically clutches the captain.
"We have to warn them!"
"Warn them? Warn who?"
"Everypony."
Okay, that is probably way too much. But still, if Season 2 can end with the Mane Six just being back-up to Cadance and Shining saving the day, then surely they can let Celestia deliver the knock out blow at least once... and it may as well be against a squid-faced terror from beyond space and time.
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As always when this topic comes up, I feel the need to link to this story.
I haven't seen the film yet. I plan to this Saturday, since I won't go to a theater alone. (for any movie, not just pony) I've tried to remain relatively unspoiled but I really can't resist following along with people's reactions. (and wishing I could join the conversation) I've seen plenty of people love it, and a few people passionately hate it, and I can't help but worry that I won't like it, especially knowing some plot details that I've unavoidably picked up from following the conversation around it.
I'm glad to see you were somewhat satisfied by it, given that the response from the more writerly types I've seen seems to have been skewed a bit more negatively than average.
4694445 I definitely want this too, though Celestia's position in the show makes me think. The Worf effect is a well known trope for a reason. Stories often require a powerful mentor character, but they can't be allowed to steal experience from the focus character, or they wouldn't get a chance to grow, so contrivances are created to minimize their participation in challenges. Gandalf falls into a really big hole, or goes away on wizard business, so that the party can learn to survive without his protection. This may not be the in-world reason, but the meta-narrative reason is important. Clearly then, there needs to be a meta-narrative reason for showing off their badassery that's more than just "the audience won't believe in their badassery if they don't win any fights", since there's another meta-narrative force in Equestria: the importance of showing that violence is not the answer.
Looking back, the show has gone out of it's way to work around this restriction, and I would vehemently contest the notion that the show has not repeatedly and strongly implied that Celestia is a force to be reckoned with. She doesn't hesitate to fly into combat when it is clearly required, (see: Chrysalis, the flashback to NMM, that alternate timeline with the war) she teleports around and is one of the few characters to ever solve a problem (rather than create one) using magic, (see: lesson zero) and an entire scene is dedicated to a visual gag that seems to exist purely to illustrate how difficult moving the sun and moon is, even with several times the usual amount of power.
It seems to me that the only thing really standing in the way of Celestia being a badass for a day is someone on the writing team finding a good reason to do it that doesn't conflict with the core goals of the show. It must advance the growth of the main characters for which she is the de-facto adult in a children's story, and it must not demonstrate that getting your mom to curbstomp someone is a viable way to resolve conflict. It's surely not an intractable problem, someone in the right position just needs to be motivated to try.
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I suppose there's a good reason that powerful, older, mentor figures frequently get killed off about a third of the way through most movies. Of course, I'm sure Hasbro hasn't forgotten what happened when they tried to do that to their other property -cough-Optimus Prime -cough-.
I wonder if the creative team can pull a Gandalf and separate the destinies of the student and mentor so that the mentor can still showcase some badassary.
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The problem isn't that they fail to be universally badass so much as the reality that they might as well be cardboard cutouts (easily blown away in the wind) whenever a serious problem occurs in the show. Every single major problem ends having to be solved by the Mane Six and friends using magical uber artifact solutions. That all despite the obvious reality that they must logically have been competent rulers and perhaps even warriors to have made it thus far and kept Equestria on an even keel. It's not that they're immortal but their continued rulership since the founding of Equestria speaks to more than just dumb luck and glowy Alicorn-ness.
I mean how on earth did they ever manage to survive Discord, Tirek, Sombra, and more. Why is Equestria a sovereign state and not a tributary sub-state to a larger empire? I mean the gryphons or dragons clearly have had it out for ponies before and possible eaten them in the past.... You could argue that the elements alone have repeatedly saved everyone's bacon innumerable times, but then where is all the wreckage of the collateral damage?
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I don't think Gandalf is the best example since he often comes to the rescue when no one else can deal with the problem.
In the Hobbit he directly intervenes on several occasions including rescuing the party with the aid of some giant eagles who he seems to have a relationship with. He personally leads them to Rivendell to consult Elrond about the map of the lonely mountain. In the later books he compels Bilbo to surrender the ring so that Frodo can take it mount doom. Also, in the background you find out that he has been consulting records and trying to track down the path of the one ring and determine what Bilbo's ring is (he's suspicious since the start). He doesn't leave the party to fight the Balrog on their own, they don't have a chance. Gandalf shows later up for moral support, lead charge, and drive back the literally encroaching darkness at the battle of Helm's deep. There's other occasions, but while he does seem to disappear at moments the party should be able handle but would rather have it easy, it's not like he's totally absent from the action.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf
What I'm getting at is that he is their nudging things along from various places in different ways. In fact it would not be entirely implausible to assume that he never stops travelling
throughout the entire trilogy.
This is nothing like Celestia dropping Twilight Sparkle in Ponyville after openly dismissing her concerns about NMM's return and blindly hoping she'll find some friends and be able to find, activate, and effectively utilize the elements on NMM's impending return in a few days. Celestia appears at least to completely absent herself leaving Twilight, her friends, and Ponyville to shoulder the entire burden and the brunt of possible failure. Now maybe Faust and the Writers intend more than is shown, but I don't think there's any evidence of more.
Frankly the viewer could be forgiven for expressing doubts as to whether Twilight, an avowedly standoffish character (see Moondancer for abandoned 'friend' who it takes her seasons to catch up with and who is rightfully dismissive of Twilight's desire to barge back into her life -- especially now that said pony is a Princess), could really have developed a single meaningful friendship in a few days much less five of sufficient strength to wield the elements of harmony without a massive deus ex machina/plot armor workaround.
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When the Storm King was first revealed I thought that he was perhaps influenced by the Mythological Japanese "Thunder Beasts" called Raijū. (His armor especially had a vaguely samurai style to it, I thought.). Sure enough, the Art of the Movie book had some explorations referencing Raijū in his concept phase.
I think they may have avoided naming the mythological source since that's also the source of inspiration for various Pokémon, where apparently Pikachu evolves into "Raichu". Why invoke the association when it's not really necessary.
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Except this isn't headcanon.
I mean. Maybe not "badass" per se. But the princesses are supposed to be powerful. They're shown being powerful quite a lot.
Hell, the entire central structure of this movie is predicated on the princesses having so much powerful magic at their disposal that the Storm King wants to steal it to make himself the biggest baddest bad guy on the block. And when the Storm King does get his hands on their magic, he is shown... being immensely powerful due to that magic!
This was also the central structure of the Season 3 finale, when Twilight sucks up the magic of the other three alicorns and turns into a literal city-wrecker, destroying enormous swathes of the landscape and being pounded into mountains and shaking it off like she don't even care. Even being one-fourth as powerful as that would still be mind-bendingly powerful. And in the Season 4 premiere, Celestia fights Nightmare Moon to a standstill even before she whips out the Elements, both of them doing some impressive aerobatics and firing their lasers at each other and whatnot.
And of course we have alternate universe Celestia who fought a long war with Sombra, shown on-screen as being quite potent and powerful.
There are other examples. "Lesson Zero," where Celestia shows up in Ponyville and dispels all of Twilight's insanity magic with a single flick of her horn. Stuff like that.
This doesn't mean that the princesses can never be defeated or threatened in some way. Queen Chrysalis gorged herself on love and so was a direct horn-on-horn match for Celestia, sure, I'll buy that, Chrysalis is sort of an alicorn-by-default. Discord of course is about as close to a literal god as we're ever likely to see. The Tree of Harmony is an ancient magic totem of some sort and it mixed itself with Discord's magic and kind of sucker punched Celestia and Luna, fine. Tirek was a hard counter, not only immune to magic but who would actually steal it and use it to get stronger.
But the movie feels... kinda bad in that regard. A unicorn rolls in and tosses a few magic MacGuffins at the ponies who, collectively, have the power to probably reduce Canterlot to rubble, and it just... works. Cuts right through them, smooth like butter.
Stuff like that sticks in a lot of peoples craw, mine included.
4694315 I think you make a lot of really good points. Another factor to consider is that the whole movie takes place on a really short timeline. That whole travel to the Seaponies and back portion took 3 days according to Tempest, so about a week of time passed between the Friendship Festival and the Storm King being beaten tops. That's barely enough time for Discord to get back from his tour of the sock-puppet dimensions and start checking his messages, and for Shining Armor to have rallied the Crystal Guard and outlying forces and have marched them halfway to Canterlot to begin preparing a counter-invasion. The Storm King didn't actually set out to permanently conquer Equestria, he did a lightning strike at the capital to try and seize the 4 princesses, drain their magic into his staff, and take off.
4694367 Tirek they beat through treachery and the suborning of allies, (which I love), Discord they defeated with the MacGuffin they found under their basement, Sombra took both Regal Sisters to beat him in a fight (and apparently he can fight Celestia to a draw one on one, based on the war timeline). Both sisters did minimal damage to their castle during their sibling tussle such that it is still standing a millennia later. It's after Nightmare Moon that Celestia forms up the EUP, which is apparently what she used to defend the realm for 1,000 years, rather than her own infinite asskicking powers.
It seems to me that Celestia and Luna aren't really that much stronger than the strongest unicorn, just a lot smarter, more knowledgeable and experienced, and fantastic generals and diplomats.
The thing about Tirek fighting Twilight to the draw is you can't assume magic that he rips out brute-force style, is equally convertible into combat power as magic willingly given by 3 alicorns. Notice Twilight is able to access the special talents of her fellow alicorns, but all Tirek can do with all that power is grow huge, throw blasts and put up basic shields. I think there's an conversion efficiency gap of several magnitudes there.
You're absolutely right about Chrysalis in the comics though, Celestia zapped that bug, and her whole horde.
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Your entire first paragraph rings very true. In the same vein, I think it’s very possible that we didn’t see the Canterlot Royal Guard because either A) this is Equestria and they all got the day off for the Friendship Festival, or B) they took one look at the Storm Guards and decided they would be much more useful evacuating ponies from the rest of the city, rather than staying to fight and getting their flanks kicked.
Quite possibly true; they certainly aren’t “god-empresses (probably).” But considering the apex examples of unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies that we’ve seen, that would be a pretty sweet deal. Also, yeah, they built a thriving nation with love and care, so they’ve got that going for them.
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4694885
I stand by my position that it is headcanon. There are implications, which I'll allow for. But I once again return to my statement: this is MLP:FiM, not "whatever it is people are complaining the show/movie isn't." The princesses hold a certain story position which reasonably implies certain amounts/types of power, but the show has never been about might vs might, and their "power level" is unimportant for stories set in Equestria, even if a conflict makes use of that power. The main point is and always has been about showcasing the importance of friendship above and beyond mere might.
I was going to write a lengthy response, but decided to just go the rest of the way and write a blog to explain what I meant and was thinking of fully.
https://www.fimfiction.net/blog/766670/my-little-pony-the-movie-spoilers
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I'm afraid that I didn't read your blog post because I myself have not yet seen the film and I don't want to get that in-depth with it before I do. I admit, that might make my response here mostly pointless in regards to what you were actually arguing... and if so, I apologize. I personally haven't been complaining about anything from the film itself, and I take your general point that people shouldn't go into an MLP story expecting to see such conflict or be disappointed when it doesn't develop.
But I still object to the contention that the Princesses being badass to any degree is entirely headcanon of the fans, unjustified by the show itself. While the show's resolutions may have never been about might vs. might and instead all about using Friendship to resolve conflict, I would argue that the history of the princess is another matter entirely. Case in point:
Season One, Exhibit A: Luna was banished to the moon for 1000 years.
Season two, Exhibit B: Discord was turned to stone and displayed in Celestia's garden for even longer.
Season three, Exhibit C: Sombra was apparently burned away into a shadow-lich.
These were the stories we were told about the prior conflicts involving Princess Celestia, and (since she really didn't do anything on-screen in the present), this is what helped form our impressions about who she was and what she was capable of doing. There was no mutual understandings reached. The non-Celestia side got smacked down, extra hard.
Should we expect her to be kicking ass in "Friendship is Magic"? No, naturally not. But the show did create this idea that Celestia was very powerful through all the things mentioned by various posters here, and it very much did not establish a track record of her resolving her conflicts with Friendship and no hard feelings. Fans aren't leaping to unsupported conclusions to say that she was something of a badass, or that picking a fight with her seems like it would end poorly.
I don't know... Perhaps the best solution would be an episode detailing a change from the scary, shadowy-silhouette-style Celestia that blasted Sombra into smoky oblivion to the modern, pacifist Celestia to help reconcile the show's Modern Equestrian style with the history we've been given. I'd be all for that... I love me the idea of a Celestia episode, and even better if it deals with some harsh lessons that came from the fall-out with her sister.