On Being a Good Citizen of Fimfiction · 5:30am Jun 20th, 2013
I write fanfiction. Sometimes I write about writing fanfiction. Today, I’m writing about fanfiction and coexisting with others in this lovely little fanfiction community, and some thoughts about what we can do to make it better. Prepare for some patented bats long-windedry: according to MSWord this is over 4,000 words long.
Being a good citizen of Fimfiction.
First off, everyone should read Bookplayer’s Guide to Shipping Etiquette. A portion of this little blog thingie I’m writing has to do with behavior towards others, which includes stuff just like this guide to being polite about one’s shipping propensities around the various discussion gathering grounds of the site. It’s basically a narrowed focus with specific examples of the first thing I’m gonna talk about here. Second off, this is me spit-balling ideas, and if anyone outright disagrees with me, I encourage that discussion. This is a community and I can’t and shouldn’t be seen as trying to set rules. We’re just talking ideas, so let’s talk, aye?
So, onwards.
Don’t be a dick to other users.
People are going to have disagreements, in forum threads, in blog posts, in the comments sections of stories, in PMs, on user pages, outside of fimfiction itself on other websites, in Skype conversations, facebook pages, pretty much anywhere. Disagreeing with others is completely normal and to be expected: we come from all walks of life here, from different countries, different backgrounds, different age groups, different ideals. The only thing we all can kinda agree on is that ponies are pretty rockin’, but that’s about it.
Disagreements can be fun. I love debating things with an open mind and occasionally having my opinion expanded, or convincing someone of a differing viewpoint. It’s intellectually stimulating and I never feel like I’m wasting time doing it. But I don’t attack people for their opinions, and I try my hardest to couch everything in The Dude’s voice and say ‘Yeah, well, that’s just, like, my opinion, man,’ and not as fact. I have had a lot of fun discussions on this site. I’ve expanded my thoughts on a lot of topics, from writing in general, to specific ships, to elements within the show itself. I know I’ve expanded the horizons of some others, too, whether through things I’ve said on forums or through stories I’ve written.
I haven’t always had a good time. I’ve had run-ins with trolls (with varying levels of personal responsibility that can be laid at my feet for rising to the bait), and run-ins with well-meaning people that can’t seem to separate their personal opinion and worldview from either fact, or from what is or isn’t polite to say to someone. Word to the wise: if someone tells you you’re saying something offensive, and your response is something along the lines of, ‘I don’t really care if I offend those people,’ you’re not painting a positive portrait of yourself.
On the internet, all we have to represent ourselves to others is our words.
In real life, you can be a great person while being a total ass. You can have a group of friends you really get along with and be a dick to them all you want if it makes them laugh. You can do that online, too, in a group that’s gotten to know you and can tell when you are or are not joking. Occasionally in both instances, you can cross lines and need to apologize. Lord knows, I’ve made tasteless jokes at friends that didn’t go over well and needed to step back and say, ‘Hey, I’m sorry, that was too much.’
Online, it’s harder to do that. Really knowing someone online is much more of a challenge than knowing someone face to face. If I say, ‘I hate you,’ what do I mean? Face to face, you can tell by the tone of my voice how serious I’m being. Online…well, we have fun little emotes that can help set tone. If I said that followed by the trollestia face, you’d know I was being facetious. But subtlety of tone can be extremely difficult. If you’re in a forum that has a whole group of people that know you from repeat conversations, your general tone is probably easier to pick up on than in other situations, but it can still be tough.
The behavior you bring to conversations, all over and off the site, is pretty much the only yardstick people can use to judge what sort of person you are. Are you polite and well-mannered? Are you abrasive? Are you close-minded and prone to ranting? Are you pretentious? Do you never take anything seriously? Are there berserk buttons that make you go off? If there are, do you apologize afterwards?
And this is all in just interacting with people. As a writer of fanfiction in a community comprised of writers and readers of fanfiction, the largest impact I can have is through my published work on the site.
Take pride in your work.
Fanfiction is basically considered the bottom rung on the ladder of creative contributions from the fan community. Most other artists, whether they’re producing animations, artwork, music, comics, or plushies, don’t have a much of an opinion of fanfiction. How many times has a fan, when talking to other fans of the show, heard some variation of this: ‘Oh, I don’t read fanfiction, that stuff’s awful’?
Why is it like this? Wanderer D has discussed at length his thoughts on the subject in a few different rant blogs, most of which I tend to agree with at varying levels of conviction, but basically boils down to the fact that 90% of what’s put on the site is crap. Why?
Well, the exact why is debatable, but the thing that I see the most, in fic descriptions and in comments left by the ‘writers’ themselves is, ‘Yeah, I wrote this last night and put it online as soon as I got to a good stopping point.’
Not all of my stories are universally liked. I’ve had a rather positive reception to most all of my work, but nothing is perfect, or even necessarily good, for everyone and I know for a fact I’ve written some duds. Some of that was me relearning how to write after not doing it outside of business emails for eight years. Some of that was just hare-brained ideas. But one thing that’s true about everything I’ve written, from the duds to the ones I’m happiest with, is that I put time, effort, and care into the process of writing them.
Yes, even Double Wingboner Double Penetration, which is possibly the stupidest thing I’ve ever written in my life. Granted, it didn’t receive as much time and attention from me as some of my other stories, but when I sat down to write it, I was writing a story. A stupid story that was to poke lighthearted fun at myself, the show, and the community in a meta-humorous way, but an actual story nonetheless. It had a beginning, a middle, and an end, with a punchline that was thought out, prose that I flow-checked, and it was edited by another pair of eyes before going online. It’s a stupid, immature sex joke, but that didn’t stop me from actually putting effort into making it enjoyable for others. Probably the worst thing I’ve written here, but dammit, it’s still something I applied myself towards.
Take pride in your work.
Writing is an art form. It’s something that takes practice, talent, inspiration, time, effort, occasionally money, and skill to do well. Fanfiction as a subset of the art form is in a unique position. If I was writing original fiction, I’d be writing it in a vacuum, waiting months between a finished product being accepted for publication, and with little to no direct feedback on it. Here, I get feedback on stuff I’ve written minutes after it’s gone online. Is it constructive feedback? Mostly not. Most of the time its shapeless praise, which is gratifying and makes me feel good, but isn’t constructive. Sometimes it is constructive feedback, though. And even without a dialogue in comments, there’s still something to be garnered by views, ratio of views to upvotes, favorites, downvote totals, new followers, everything.
It’s a world where there’s direct interaction between the writer and their audience. And that goes both ways.
You know what it means to me when I see a response to legitimate criticism on a story that’s something along the lines of, ‘Yeah, I changed my mind halfway through writing this. I was gonna go back and change it, but it was two in the morning, lol,’? It tells me that the writer does not care about his work. At all. And by extension, the writer does not care about this community.
They wrote something and put it online immediately, something they knew wasn’t their best and could be made better. They didn’t care to take the time to do so. Because they don’t care about it. They just wrote it, now since they took the time to do that, we all should take the time to swallow their bad grammar and plot-holes.
Now, I’m a really fast writer. In the eight months I’ve been writing fanfiction, I’ve written over 250,000 words of it. And I’ve been getting faster as time goes on. It could be thought, based on the amount that I put out, that I have minimal downtime between drafting and publishing.
This isn’t even close to true. Everything that goes online get drafted, flow-checked, re-edited, and (usually) re-edited again by me before it even goes to any of my editors. Spellbound Fireflies, which is going online two chapters a week, is nearly 30,000 words further drafted and partially edited than what’s currently online. When stuff goes online, yeah, there are some errors. Even with several sets of eyes looking at something, there are gonna be things that get missed. But I do pretty much everything I can to keep that from happening.
Why bother? I mean, it’s fanfiction. What’s the point?
Why do fan-artists not just scrawl something in crayon in two minutes and put it online? Because they care about what they’re doing. They want people to know they care. We, as a community and an art form, should want people to know we care, too.
Give your support to writers who care and ignore those that don’t.
This is a great community. Some of the best things I’ve ever read, period, have been on this site. Thought-provoking, emotion pulling, wonderful, amazing work is being produced by this community by people from all walks of life. There is also a huge, steaming pile of horrendous crap. Whether it’s people who don’t know any better who take the fact that they made it to 1,000 words as a victory, or from people intentionally undermining the art form through bad trollfics (notice I said bad trollfics. Sometimes a writer thinks they’re making a trollfic and they accidentally wrote a comedy), there is a ton of stuff that buries the good.
Those in the former group, that are just starting out? The best thing that you can do for them is tell them what they did wrong. Don’t need to be mean about it, but some honest criticism that’s couched in a polite way can put them on the right track. Everybody starts somewhere, and while it’s not the best form for them to write something and slap it online and expect applause without putting much effort into it, it’s not the worst form, either. Everybody starts somewhere, and hardly anyone starts with an editor out the front gate.
Sure, not everyone has the time, patience, or even necessarily the ability to go into details about why something isn’t good or could be better. Not everyone here is a writer who spends a lot of time thinking about crafting stories and knows how to explain why a plot point is deficient in something they’re reading. Not everyone wants to take the time necessary to explain it, even if they do understand what’s wrong. And believe me, there’s nothing quite as frustrating as taking the time to explain, and then having a writer turn around and say, ‘Yeah, I changed my mind halfway through writing this. I was gonna go back and change it, but it was two in the morning, lol.’
It’s a dirty job and I don’t expect everyone to do it. I only do it sometimes. I do do it, on stories anywhere from really good that could be polished to amazing, to really bad that need a push in the right direction. Everybody starts out somewhere, and nobody’s done learning. This unique community of feedback and support is one that gives us a chance to workshop each other way faster than anything traditional writers can pull together.
Don’t be rude, but be fair. And if you’re unable or unwilling to provide feedback like that, just make it known in your voting habits. Upvote stories that are good. They don’t have to be perfect, but if you enjoy yourself when reading and get something out of it, even if it’s just a reasonably pleasant waste of a few minutes, give it a thumbs up.
Don’t vote if it’s mediocre. There’s no reason to laud a story that just gets by. If the grammar’s awful but it’s otherwise fine, no upvote. If it’s mechanically fine but the story is boring and uninteresting or the pacing is way off, no upvote. If nothing really jumps out at you as being particularly bad, but there’s just nothing there that grabs you as worthwhile, no upvote.
Downvote if it’s bad. Even if you can tell the writer’s trying, if they make a mess, they should be told it’s a mess. Bad grammar, bad characterization, nonsensical plots, faster-than-the-speed-of-light pacing, if they set out to tell you a story and failed to do so? Downvote it. It’s good form to tell them why, even if you don’t admit to the downvoting (after all, it’s easy to feel guilty and on the spot for downvoting something). Saying ‘You squeezed a novel’s worth of material into 1000 words,’ or ‘Rainbow Dash would never kick a hooker to death in that situation,’ is enough of an indicator for why someone’s getting a downvote, even if you don’t say that you’re downvoting. It’s good form when it’s evident that they at least tried, but don’t reward their worse-than-mediocrity with an upvote. If everyone has to sort through a dozen ugh-to-meh fics because they have a reasonable number of upvotes just because ‘the writer tried,’ then it hardly paints the appropriate picture, considering the skill and talent that can be on display in this community.
Don’t put up with people that don’t give a shit.
For the latter, those that are making bad trollfics on purpose? Don’t put up with it. And if they aren’t doing it on purpose, but they make it clear they have no respect for what they’re putting online and by extension you as a reader? Don’t put up with that, either.
If it’s clear the writer doesn’t care about their own work, then why should you care? Ignore them, don’t give them the views they’re asking for without showing any respect for you, your time, or themselves and their work.
What fics like that need: a complete and total absence of views. Trolls like the hate, and 120 downvotes is fueling their fire. But 10 views and no votes? That dude’s gonna get bored.
Although, sometimes the trollfics are disguised as one thing when they’re actually something else, or a story that seems really promising, but then when you read it you can tell the writer didn’t even try, you’re left with two options. Let them have the views, but don’t vote at all and ignore them as best as you can, or downvote them for their lack of respect to the community and be done with it.
Downvotes. I used to be against downvotes, but there is a utility for them. If someone is purposefully wasting everyone’s time with stupid nonsense designed to get a rise out of people, that thing should have more downvotes than upvotes. And if they threw together a mess, didn’t proofread, and have no intention of proofreading because ‘lol, it’s just fanfiction,’ they should have more down than up, too. They don’t care? We shouldn’t care. And a story that’s buried in downvotes is only going to attract readers who want to see something awful. Let them! MST3K can be fun, but those people know what they’re getting into. The cream of the crop should rise to the top and the garbage should sink. Better to just ignore, since downvotes can be like throwing gasoline on a grease fire for some writers, but it’s better to hobble them than to let all the ‘lol, trollfics rock’ people push their insulting agenda that reflects poorly on all of us.
Except, sometimes trollfics are hilarious. Sometimes they press all the right buttons and shine a giggly light on something goofy. There’s a (oh my god, I’m mentioning it in a blog) fic called Double Spinnetration, which is a Berry Punch/Giant horrifying spider clopfic. I tell you, I laughed hard through the whole thing and a long time afterwards. Was it supposed to be a trollfic? Yeah, probably. Except the writing in it was quality, and it was genuinely funny. It became an exercise in absurdity that transcended the idea of ‘OMG, a Berry Punch/Spider fic, what is this I don’t even.’
On those rare occasions…well, vote how you would any other story. I know I upvoted that one.
EDIT:
As pointed out in the comments, I feel I should clarify this a little, in terms of what I meant by 'accidental comedies,' because I wasn't getting my point across very well. Idiosyncratic stories that are written with care may at first blush appear to be trollfics, but they are not. The story mentioned above, Double Spinnetration, is a story about Berry Punch having sex with a spider. This sounds ludicrous and at rough glance might scream 'troll!' to passersby. It also looks hilarious, based on the cover art and description. Reading it is hilarious. It's a strange, idiosyncratic story, that's written with care, and is a success. Thus, it is NOT a trollfic. Trollfics are things that are written as quickly as possible and put up solely to anger people. Sometimes concepts for trollfics can be as strange as Double Spinnetration, or as mundane as any ol' My Little Dashie retread, standard shipfic, Pony verbs object story, etc. Concept isn't what's on trial here, it's content only.
Your comments on stories, either as a reader or a writer, are the biggest reflection on you and the value you place on what you’re doing.
Not every story warrants or needs an in depth, thought out comment. Stuff that’s passable to very good might deserve a note saying ‘Yes, I enjoyed reading this,’ if you don’t feel anything more is needed to be said. After all, a story that’s well executed but not amazing doesn’t need very much feedback. It’s just well executed but not amazing. It happens to all of us from time to time. And on ongoing stuff you’re following, responding with little ‘Ooh, liked this part of this thing,’ on an update is perfectly reasonable, too. And at the end, you can make the judgment call then if you’re gonna leave a big comment with constructive feedback, or an ‘I enjoyed all of this,’ or praise, or whatever.
But if you have something more to say than that, you should say it. And writers should take what’s said and be gracious about it, because as a writer it’s just as important.
Nothing is quite as ugly as a writer lashing out at criticism in the comment section of their own story. Sometimes if they’re going after trolls it’s fun, but if they’re just being reactive to stuff people are saying is bad, that’s on them and they look like douchebags. I’ll freely admit to looking like a douchebag on my stories from time to time, because frankly I am a bit of a douchebag from time to time. Most of that’s me taking umbrage with non-constructive feedback disguised as constructive feedback (because frankly, there’s no way to constructively say ‘I don’t like this ship’), but I can occasionally say stuff I regret saying later. It happens.
But what shouldn’t happen is an aggressive, ugly meltdown because someone pointed out a plot hole, or said the pacing was off or the characters were off. Sure, responding and explaining your thoughts in a cogent manner may or may not be warranted based on the comment, but tearing into someone for expressing a negative opinion is not the right answer. No one’s story is going to be universally liked. Something that you like, or the majority of your readers like, isn’t going to hit everyone right. And it might hit them wrong enough to downvote and tell you why. Take that criticism, and determine what you should do with it.
Do they have a valid point? Great, take that, and either edit your story or keep it in mind on future projects. Nothing is as helpful as having someone point out something you’re doing poorly in a way that it can point you in the direction of improvement. I am a far stronger writer now than I was when I started and some of the biggest leaps I’ve made have come from honest, strong criticism. Take it and treasure it: valid and harsh criticism is the best feedback you will ever get.
Is their point based on missing the point of the story? Well, that’s less helpful, but is still helpful. If everyone’s missing the point, it means you didn’t express the point very well. That’s pretty much just as good a thing to hear as someone saying your story is unclear. Figure out why they and others are missing the point and edit, or keep it in mind going forward. If it was just them, consider it but put less weight on it. Maybe you weren’t clear, maybe they were reading too quickly. Subtext is tricky, after all.
Is their point based on personal headcanon, or they’re out and out factually wrong? That’s not constructive feedback.
So take what’s said, gauge its usefulness, and respond graciously. That means a thank you, a polite refutation of their point, or no response at all. Not a ‘blargh, you’re wrong.’ If you’re going to be a part of the community, you’re going to have to expect at least some form of negative feedback, and if you can’t handle that, maybe you shouldn’t be sharing your writing.
Champion that which is great.
Everyone here has probably read at least one. That story. The one that you took a bite of and got stuck in your craw, and months later you still find yourself thinking about it. That story is just so fucking good. It was like you were reading an actual book, or a short story in a magazine, and it hit all your buttons just right and by the end of it you said ‘Fuck, I need a cigarette,’ even if you don’t smoke.
I’ve read a handful of those. Pimp that shit out! someone asks for your opinions on fanfiction, either looking for recommendations here, or just talking to a fellow fan who ‘doesn’t get fanfiction,’ be ready with those titles! Tell them about the story you found amazing. Because let’s be honest here, we all know how crappy most of the shit on this site is. But we also all read that one that first opened our eyes.
The first, real, finished story I read of fanfiction is A Bluebird’s Song. It has some rough spots here and there, but it just sort of took Twidash as an idea and said to me ‘Look at this, don’t you see it?’ And I saw it, and I fell in love, because the characters already reminded me of myself and my ex-wife, and suddenly I was putting the two together romantically in a story that was engaging and fun to read.
We’ve all read that one that made us think differently about what fanfiction could even be.
I read Growing Pains shortly after that and my jaw fell open. You can tell a story like that with ponies and have it be the same ponies?
We’ve all read that one that spoke to us profoundly.
I read We’ll Keep in Touch, and it struck me so deeply, it made me cry tears of joy. The first time I read it, and every single time subsequently.
And that’s just Twidash! I’ve laughed so hard I nearly puked, I’ve been made to feel so bad I questioned my own moral compass, I’ve even had the worst episode of the show redeemed in my eyes by fanfiction. This is amazing stuff. Certainly not all or even most, but some of it. Share it with others. If every single one of the 90,000 plus registered users on this site managed to convince only one person of the value that fanfiction brings?
Think about it. Think about the power that we have as a community and an art form. Drawings, plushies, even comics and animations can only tell so much of a story. Some short, snapshot stories here that are amazing don’t tell much more, but some are hundreds of thousands of words and paint epic tapestries that are both the same as those in the show and entirely different at the same time. This is the real sandbox of artistic expression in the community. This is the birthplace of artistry for the fandom.
It’s time it should be treated as such. And it’s up to us as the users; the content creators, the consumers, and the spokespeople of fanfiction; to get it there. And the way we start is by taking responsibility for ourselves.
Not everyone can be a good citizen all the time. Lord knows I certainly am not. I can be arrogant, I tend to brag on occasion, I write stuff that has plenty of flaws I don’t recognize until later, and I have an extremely large amount of pent-up aggression that taekwondo can only release to a limited degree (which can occasionally allow trolls to get me to rise to the bait). But I try. This community is amazing and wonderful already, filled with brilliant people who provide literally hundreds of hours of their time for free simply for the joy of it. Imagine how much more amazing this community could be if we all tried.
(Also it’s terribly amusing to me that I was most of the way through writing this when that big troll hullabaloo happened. If you’re curious, none of this was derived from that incident; just a sign that I’m not always a good citizen and occasionally can’t help but throw gasoline on grease fires)
Yeah, I think I'll leave the tab open so I can read this tomorrow, so I won't be dead tired by the end...
1155903
Haha, I don't blame you.
Yes, I enjoyed reading this and agree with your general thesis.
I have to say that I've been enjoying these blog posts of yours they're a good read and rather helpful.
Ps. On story's I've recommended coming back features highly on that list and I'm going to have to add spell bound fireflies to the list as well.
1155934
Thank you very much on both accounts.
@Champion that which is great.
I take this very seriously.
Also,
i.imgur.com/RL9ZgqK.gif
But, yeah. Good post, bats.
(And don't worry; if you care, Spellbound Fireflies will be in there when it's done.)
The problem is, you aren't the first and you'll never be the last to send out this message.
Sure, I'd love for these ideals to spread throughout the site, but realistically it's impossible.
The points are all spot on to me though.
i have chronic troll syndrome
i can't help it
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duh
my work is the best on fimfic
and the hwhole internets
leave those grouchy cripples behind yo
yeah man don't put up with people like me & regidar
it's not like we're good writers or aynthing
its like 5 cents then
i am the champion of egg drop soup motherfucker
1155969
Oh, Parasprite, you try to write troll stuff, and it's always accidentally a comedy.
1155972
i accidentally bats's blog
Like the barnacles on a ships hull.
In what situation would she?
As a notorious troll, here's my two cents:
I write for myself, and if others like it, that's a bonus. If I had fun writing it, and it's not TOTAL crap, then I post.
You like my fic? Great!
You don't? Oh well!
If you have legit criticisms? Thanks, you helped me grow as a writer!
If you didn't like the subject matter and you hate on it because of that? Go fuck yourself! (I used to do this a lot, I've gotten better)
I write loads of "crappy" trollfics, but I try to write them well. And I have been known to write real stories now and then.
Point being: it's the fucking internet man; we're not here to produce literary genius, just to have fun. All I ask of people to to be original, or at least creative with an overdone concept.
1155978
I'm unsure, but I made people accept Fluttershy kicking a puppy as being in character. Maybe the hooker pulled a knife and it was self-defense?
1155979
You are another one that writes a lot of accidental comedies. Writing something that's supposed to get a reaction out of people isn't a bad thing and you actually...you know...put effort into the stuff you write. That's all I'm asking out of people.
And what you ask for out of criticism and out of stories from others is basically exactly what I ask for, too. No one should try or be expected to write something groundbreaking, because if it was that easy, we'd all just fucking do it. But we should respect what it is we're doing as a hobby. Because if all someone is doing is shitting on a piece of paper and asking for applause, they can go fuck themselves.
Damn you Bats, writing long blog posts at three in the morning.
Eh, got nothing better to do, so read I shall!
I agree with almost everything here, and I quite like this blog post as a whole, but for my part, I've found that I take a very different tack to voting. I vote based on the story and the rating, not just the story. I try to do my best to sort stories on the site into what I consider a reasonable hierarchy of quality. So a story that's in the first forty pages of the top-rated stories list (i.e. in the top 1% of stories on the site) has a different standard to meet than one that's sitting on a more even balance of downvotes and upvotes.
That's just me, though. Hopefully that's not very bad form.
1155986 I really only care about people trying to tell me what not to write.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't. And besides, it's fiction, designed for us to live out our fantasies. If it's decently written, throw it on the public, no matter how stupid, mind-raping, or outlandish of an idea is behind it.
1155986
what if we're asking for bonerz?
fecal art induced boners?
in my autistic brony fandom?
its more likely than you think
1155996>>1155997
I think both of you are missing my definition of a trollfic, which is on me. I don't think of either of you as trollfic writers in all honesty.
This is a trollfic. Something written as fast as humanly possible, with no attention to grammar, plot, characterization, care, or effort, that was designed purely and solely to piss off people by posing as a legitimate shipfic at first glance.
I don't have a problem with people writing weird, idiosyncratic stuff. If it's written to be quality weird, idiosyncratic stuff, fucking awesome! I plugged Double Spinnetration in the blog, and fucking hell, that is the definition of weird and idiosyncratic. I have zero problem with either of you, what you write or what you choose to write, and I would never condone someone downvoting based on concept. I'm talking content only, here. If the concept is fucking nuts, cool. If the content of that fucking nuts concept is terrible and looks thrown together in ten minutes, fuck that guy. If the concept is standard, un-strange, Taviscratch or something that's boring and plain, and looks like it was thrown together in ten minutes, fuck that guy.
1155993
That's an entirely reasonable concept, I think. After all, if you're looking at something that has 2000 upvotes and three downvotes, it better be pretty damn great, all things considered. And if after reading you kinda liked it, but that's it, probably doesn't deserve to go up to 2001.
...This is a problem I actually run into all the time with the extremely high rated fics on the site. They're not bad, they're just so purely inoffensive there's no substance to them a lot of the time.
1156011 Ethesto, the author of Double Spinitration, is a god, so that's understandable.
Alright, glad we got that cleared up.
1156024
I am, too. I also edited the main blog to better explain what I meant. I hate when I fail to get my point across.
1155959
Urgh, I really dislike the fact that it auto-clears notifications on comments when you reload pages, I always seem to miss comments just from doing other stuff and reloading before I get a notification.
It's true that I'm neither the first nor the last suggesting something like this, but it's still worth saying and it's still worth trying. Just because it won't affect everyone on the site doesn't mean it can't do some good. Change starts with individuals.
Darn it, where's the up-vote button for blog entries?
I had to stop. This. This here? This is oddly specific, bats :D
Y'know what's super awkward? Being the only negative comment after dozens and dozens of glowing ones.
I've done that a few times. Whole lot of back patting goes on in this community sometimes.
1156217
Quick, time to upvote this comment.
All of this.
1156348 curse you irony!
1156217 Yup. I know that feeling well.
1156217
1) I'm not sure what's so positive about me frantically backpedaling to clarify something I said poorly, or so negative about your comment.
2) Well, of course it's oddly specific! It's not like I've come across a specific, bizarre title or anything.
(please note: I haven't read this story and I have no idea how in-character the hooker murder is or not within, I just remembered it while drafting this blog)
1156526
I was speaking in general, in fanfic comment sections.
I have, several times, been the only guy saying something negative for pages and pages. "Burning Bridges" comes to mind. Dozens of "this is so beautiful" with ONLY ME saying "everyone in this story is an asshole, out of character or both. Except maybe applejack." (Paraphrasing)
1156532
Ohh, I get ya. Yeah, that can be awkward. And yeah, I've been that guy several times.
Interesting stuff, my only complaint was the idea that there is no way to constructively criticize a ship and that you didn't post links to the many fic you felt were amazing.
I've seen many debates over different ships and some of them can be valid. That said I think it's more dependent on the author than the ship in question. I have seen ships I never would've thought of done beautifully. (Crackships inc. has them mostly.) and I've seen ships that I almost figured to be a no-brainer fail because the characters were written badly (Not linking that one due to not wishing to give views.) But To use a general statement like that I felt I had to speak up and politely disagree. I would like to hear more about why you say what you do, if you're interested in discussing it.
On the not linking the fics it made you feel a bit disingenuous to me that you are going on about how you love these fics but don't link them, thus making folks need to either write the titles down or stop reading to go look them up before coming back to your post. It's a minor nit pick as inserting links can be annoying especially if you have a lot but it did resonate with me.
Forgive my otherthinking and know that in no way do I mean any disrespect.
1156545
The link thing really was just me not dealing with the bbcode involved; it was a lot of rapid-fire links, I was drafting in MSWord which always seems to screw up my links, and I'd grown sick of dealing with them earlier in writing it. I'll edit the blog to have links here in a minute, because yeah, it should have links.
And I think there's a world of difference between saying 'You failed to pull off this ship' and 'I don't like this ship.' One is a discussion of character voice, motivation, developing authentic romance, story structure, etc. The other is simply complaining about a ship. Basically, I get a lot of 'Ugh, Twidash' comments with nothing to them beyond people complaining about Twidash as a pairing. On the reverse of that coin are the folks who say 'I don't usually like this pairing, but here I do like it.' Those are great compliments.
But yeah, not liking a pairing and telling the writer you don't like the pairing isn't constructive. Not finding a pairing believable within the confines of a story, whether one normally likes the pairing or not, and telling the writer as such, and even better why, is very constructive.
When you put it that way, I suppose I should be a little less hesitant to give a downvote.
Usually I would downvote something like a bad trollfic.
When I think of a new writer getting a downvote on their story, I feel like it would hurt their feelings. They might get upset and stop writing, or something like that. If they stop writing because of that, however, they probably weren't meant to write in the first place.
From here on, when I read a poor quality fic, I'll be honest about it. Better to help the writer improve than to spare their feelings; it's not like it's being mean to them or anything.
1155997
Oh, have you also read this gem?
It's....quite the read.
1155978
This is Fluttershy Kicks A Puppy, all over again. One little comment gets turned into a coming of age tale of a poor creature getting shipped with Fluttershy's hoof.
I can see this story happening. We'll call it, "They Don't Take Credit Cards."
>Fanfiction is basically considered the bottom rung on the ladder of creative contributions from the fan community.
Actually, we're about on par with fan music. The difference is that YouTube collects view data differently than FimFiction does. This is why live readings of fanfic have way more views than stories on this site do.
1157505
That's interesting, from a raw views sort of sense. But mostly I was discussing perceived value more than raw viewership. Sure, there's some cross-over between the two, since the more people reading fanfiction the more people who place qualitative value on fanfiction. That said, I've talked to a ton of fans of the show. The large majority of them had no interest in fanfiction, to some being downright hostile towards it. On the other hand, I don't know that I've met a fan who hadn't heard of Mandopony or Wooden Toaster.
That's all anecdotal at best, but from my personal experience on it, the perceived value of fanfiction and fanfiction writers, within the MLP fandom, in other fandoms, and the world at large, is much lower than the perceived value of fan musicians and fan artists. Sure, all of them get the same 'why don't you make something original if you're so talented?' lines from others, but they're still given a higher rank in value compared to the writers.
1157767
Clearly, you haven't heard what Mando-haters have to say. Though considering some of the things they've said, that's probably a good thing...
I think Tumblr has played a big part in helping to legitimatize fanart. Equestria Daily is the closest thing we have to that and... well... A lot of people hate EqD. Plus, they aren't really a fanfiction site. This site isn't much better, but for vastly different reasons of which you're already familiar with. It would do wonders for this site, if Knighty even added a "send to" button like YouTube has. Or he could add an option to show stories that users who you're following have favorited to the feed.
But even those would only do a little to help matters. America isn't a reading culture, but that is slowly changing as people realize that forcing children to read "classic literature" does more harm than good. And the two-hundred-million dollar "book trailers" that Hollywood keeps pumping out have helped a lot, too.
Give it time. One of these days, someone'll make a site that does what EqD does, but better.
Until then, there are two things you can do to help. One: Make a DA account with a link to your FimFic page somewhere one it and comment on fanarts that you like. Two: add a link to your fimfic page on your YouTube account page and comment on Pony videos and Pony music often. People will see your comments and possibly end up reading one of your stories in the end.
I think if more of us tried reaching out to the other sections of the community, and making friends with them, there might be more people who read fanfic.
1157889
I have heard the hate, but people know who he is. Who knows of any of the big names here outside of in the community? I've never met a non-fanfic reader who knew the names shortskirtsandexplosions, Rob Cakeran, Pen stroke, or Aegis Shield, and I've met only one who heard of TAW. Even if people hate Mando, they at least have an opinion on him and have at least some passing respect or interest in fan music.
As for those ideas...they're good ones. I do do that with dA, mostly because I also host the custom cover art I make for my stories there (complete with links in the descriptions), and the bare amount of youtube stuff I'm involved in has had direct links here in assorted places.
As for an EqD alternative, it'd be nice if more attention was given (and possibly an increase in size to it) to the site Pony Fiction Vault, which is a vastly superior place to find quality fanfiction along with interesting interviews. It gets some nice cross-contamination here, since updates are reblogged site-wide by RBDash47, but the more attention from outside the site, the better.
But if I take pride in my work, how am I supposed to poke fun at my awful writing in the bad trollfic I'm hacking out?
1158191
I wrote a story where Rainbow Dash backbridged over Twilight so they could bang each other with their wingboners, and as a result Rainbow Dash did something that's 'never been done before,' so she became an alicorn and the Princess of Sex. I wrote this to make fun of myself for feeling kinda butthurt about the season finale.
You can make fun of yourself mercilessly while still actually producing something that's readable.
1158213 Y'know, I forgot about that one. That was actually really fucking hilarious.
1158827
As I said, even when I write stupid nonsense, I try to at least make it entertaining stupid nonsense.
i.imgur.com/Kv8nA.png
1157889 Just read this, and just did this as well. I've been slowly migrating into making pony accounts on Youtube and Deviantart, since I don't know how much I want to spam my personal accounts with constant pony fandom stuff.
Those accounts both prominently link back here, now, and I think I may try to do a better job about commenting in both places as well.
Very nicely said. I love blog post like this, that focus on making fimfiction a better place for everyone.
Blueshift made a blog post about comments that I wish was required reading.
Thank you kindly for taking the time to write this.
Eloquently-written. Well done.
Far too many writers I came across in my olden days were the kind who just couldn't take constructive criticism and would lash out at anything and everything you said that wasn't praise. Fortunately, this fandom is much more mild-mannered, friendly, generally more mature, and much more open to criticism, so long as it is indeed constructive.
Thank you for the time you took to put this down. It's relieving to know that there are kindred spirits out there on the wind.
Happy reading!