Gina didn’t have a chance to struggle. As little as she thought of the fierceness of ponies, she wasn’t going to test them in combat. It wasn’t really fair to take the victory of the best warriors in Accipio against a crew of unprepared sailors as proof that no pony anywhere could be a danger to her.
These bats in particular were unlike the ponies she had seen before. Every bat she’d ever seen had been in some kind of military position or another. Escorting Princess Luna, pulling her chariot. Now here aboard an unnamed pony airship with unknown capabilities.
“We’re not going to resist,” Isabel said, as they were dragged through metal passages aboard the ship. “You don’t need to restrain Gina. Look at her wings. She needs a doctor.”
“We’ll be the judge of that,” said a rough voice above them. “You can inform the captain of your need. What she does with that information is her decision.”
“It’s okay, Isabel,” Gina whispered, though of course they were surrounded by enemies and every word would be overheard. “They’ll see how important our mission is. They’ll help.”
They didn’t make it much further before whoever was tugging on the ropes around Gina’s hooves stopped tugging.
“You stand before Captain Caliginous,” said a voice from somewhere behind her. “Give her proper respect.”
Her? Strange commander for a warship. But Gina lowered her head politely. “Captain Caliginous. As you can see our situation is desperate. As desperate as the rest of Equestria and Accipio both if we don’t act quickly.”
“Remove their blindfolds,” instructed a voice from across the room. Deep, mature, but with the same squeaking quality as the other ponies here. “Let me see them clearly.”
Something brushed against her head, untying the blindfold in a few quick strokes.
These were clearly the captain’s quarters—they stood in an expensive stateroom, with gold inlay set into the solid wooden furniture. There was a wealth of books in the shelf behind the captain, and another shelf filled with tiny models of ships.
The captain herself was an older pony, with streaks of gray running through her otherwise purplish mane. She was indeed a bat like the other crewmen, though she wore her coat with the same distinction as any naval captain. She also wore a sword on her belt, instead of a gun. I wonder if that’s for show. A female who knows how to fight?
“Do you know why I’m here?” The captain was settled into a comfortable chair across the table. From behind them, several soldiers shoved Gina and Isabel into similar chairs. Light despite their apparent sturdiness.
“Answer the captain’s question,” barked a voice from behind them. The male who’d escorted them up here.
Captain Caliginous waved one wing in his direction. “Give them a break, Silver Moon. They look like they’ve been walking for days.”
“To escape the scene of the crime,” Silver Moon muttered, but he stepped back all the same.
All eyes were on Gina now. The ponies seemed to be watching Isabel, but they both knew she wasn’t going to explain. “It’s…” She hesitated another few moments. She hadn’t actually expected to have to do this so soon.
And to the enemy. Even if she told these ponies nothing but the truth, they might not believe her. Or they might decide not to let them return to Accipio to inform the emperor of how dire the situation was. They would want their own leadership to know, for certain.
Gina reached down, to her neck, watching as the ponies all around her tensed. But in vain, because a moment later she lifted her claw with her Imperial Seal, sliding it across the table to the captain. “My name is Gina of house Virtue. I served as imperator of the Accipian ship Lapwing, sent to retrieve some birds of house Vengeance that were overstaying their welcome up in Griffonstone.”
The captain inspected the seal closely. Then she rose, removing a volume from the bookshelf behind her, and opening it. She skimmed through its pages as she brought it back to the table, before settling on the one she wanted. Gina couldn’t really read it from that far away, but she could see at a glance that it was indeed filled with sketches and political information.
She nodded. “Well, this is authentic. So either you are an imperator, or you killed one. Finding you broken and bloody in the wilderness and not on your ship doesn’t help your case.”
“Or finding the corpse of the Wayfarer,” added Silver Moon from behind her, a little anger seeping into his words. “Which you obviously destroyed. Burned that way with your illegal cannons.”
“The Lapwing did not have cannons,” Gina said. “But it is responsible for the death of the Wayfarer.”
“Huh?” There was genuine surprise in his voice. Gina glanced over her shoulder, and saw his jaw hanging open. “You’re actually… admitting to an act of war?” He straightened. “Captain, I think we’ve heard enough. I’ll measure a rope for the—”
“You will do no such thing.” She extended another wing towards him, glowering at him. “There is some information missing. There were the corpses of two ships. That leaves two unaccounted for. The Flash Magnus, and the Sister of Balance if I’m not mistaken. Along with a large number of pony crew and presumably the rest of the griffons as well.” Her eyes settled on Gina again. “I expect you to tell me everything. If you think your status or your office will make you immune to the consequences of your actions—”
Gina nodded. “It wasn’t something we did. That’s why my—” She stopped herself, nodding slightly towards the pony beside her. “That’s why we’re walking instead of riding that ship.”
And across the moment of no return she went. “There was a mutiny.” She described what had happened in detail—the docking, the inspection. The way Captain Skysword had provoked the crew. All the way through to the moment Gideon turned the ship into a fireball and Isabel saved her life.
“Then we landed,” she finished, lamely. “And we’ve been making for Accipio ever since.”
“So you can claim the ponies attacked you,” Silver Moon said from behind her, voice as hard-edged as it had been when he first spoke. “So you can blame Equestria for your act of war.”
“You’re really stupid,” Isabel said, glaring at him with contempt on her face. “If we were going to lie to the Emperor, why wouldn’t we have lied to you too? Gina had no reason to tell you all that, except that she’s a bird of honor and we need your help.”
“To do the exact opposite,” Gina added. “Gideon only would’ve killed me to prevent me from telling the truth. That means he probably is going to lie, tell the Emperor that the ship was attacked and destroyed, that they had no choice but to defend themselves. He’s trying to provoke a war.”
“He did that,” the captain said. But there was no anger in her voice. Only pain. Like someone who could look up at the landslide coming down on her, but couldn’t fly away in time. She saw what had sucked the desire to keep fighting out of Gina. The inevitable war.
“Yes,” Gina agreed. “But maybe it doesn’t have to be with all of Accipio. Gideon and his crew were following the orders of Clan Lord Santiago of Vengeance. They’re probably the ones who have been preparing for war all this time. Maybe if we make it back to the emperor before anything we can’t reverse happens… maybe that war could be Equestria and Accipio against the ones who actually want to hurt you.”
It would be the first time in history anything like it had ever happened. Dividing the units of an enemy nation were common tactics, but Accipio had never involved foreign armies in their own internal wars before.
But Gideon made sure it wouldn’t be an internal war when he destroyed that Equestrian ship. First the slaves, then the guns, now this.
It might very well be time for the death of another great house. And it was at least partially Gina’s fault.
“I need to consult with the admiralty,” Caliginous said. “Report what you just told us. It’s possible they’ll allow me to help you. I wouldn’t want to get your hopes up, though. The Heart's Shadow is one of our newest, most advanced airships. Taking the chance that she might fall into enemy hooves right before the beginning of a war… I don’t know if they’ll listen.”
Gina nodded gravely. “As long as I’m aboard, my seal and I will protect your ship. I swear on my life to see you permitted out of Accipian territory again unmolested.”
For birds that would’ve been good enough. But she could see the captain’s expression hadn’t really changed. She didn’t think that would be enough to convince her superiors. Or maybe it wasn’t enough to convince her.
“And tell them something else,” Gina went on. She was going above her authority now. But considering how badly things had already gone, she couldn’t exactly be punished more. What was the point of retaining her position if all of Accipio burned for it? “Tell them if they help us, I’ll tell you what we discovered in the Griffonstone monastery. I think they’d be interested to know what house Vengeance was doing with the place.”
“You’ll tell us right now,” said Silver Moon from behind her, drawing his sword an inch or so from its scabbard.
Gina laughed in his face. “Yes, because I believe for two seconds you’re going to torture or kill one of the emperor’s imperators in cold blood. Probably the only bird in the whole world who has a chance of preventing total war between Equestria and Accipio.” She spun around in her chair. “Go ahead, Silver Moon. Make my day.”
“That’s enough.” Caliginous thumped one hoof on the table. “Silver Moon, you will treat our guests with the respect of foreign diplomats… for the moment. I’m going to radio naval intelligence and ask for orders.”
“Radio?” Isabel asked, repeating the word with obvious curiosity.
They got only silence in response. The captain and several soldiers hurried out, leaving Silver Moon and another guard. This one was a unicorn, levitating a rifle at the ready. Though not actually pointed at them. She seemed relieved that she hadn’t needed to use it.
“I don’t like any of this,” Silver Moon announced, though Gina wasn’t sure exactly who he was saying it to. “Lost the ship right out from under you? Need our newest warship to escort you into Accipio on her first deployment? Something stinks about this plan.”
Gina shrugged. “I had friends aboard the Lapwing, Silver Moon. I’d known Captain Hookbeak since I was young. Gideon almost certainly murdered him. And Hogarth, one of my sla—a member of my household. He was a witness too. I’m sorry if you lost someone aboard one of those ships. But if you don’t help us, a lot of ponies and griffons are going to lose many more people. Even if… even if you think this is a war you can win easily. If we can’t stop the bloodshed completely, understand that I can minimize it. That’s why the emperor sent me out here in the first place.”
Silver Moon stared at her a long time. She could see the tension in his body, legs prepared to spring. Maybe he’d been preparing to attack her, or just to do something unbecoming while the captain wasn’t here to stop him. But he grumbled under his breath, turning away from her. “No reason for the two of you to be waiting in here. Even if Command approves us to help you, it will be hours into New Scythia. Medical is up one level, come with me.”
He gestured at the door the captain had left through.
A few hours later, and she stood atop the deck of the Equestrian warship, wind blasting all around them so fast she felt like she might be swept off into the sky if she even twitched wrong. But they were headed south. Maybe they could stave off the end of the world a little longer.
Ohhh! This is getting good~
This is... about the best that we could’ve hoped for, all things considered. Now let’s see how the author kicks our hopes in the dick again.
And here are the stupid ponies, right on schedule. Because idiot-balls are apparently standard-issue.
This plot-point is still nonsense.
So is this one. Repeating the same lazy rationalization doesn't make it any better.
8979710
Yes, because an entirely rational crew with a reasonable and intelligent captain certainly could not have someone under her command with less than desirable traits. Those of us with military experience have certainly never met an NCO like this, no sir. Nor have we ever seen an episode of the show that displayed ponies like this. It's amazing how unfaithful a depiction of reality and canon this is.
Not to get too into the comments here, but you know you're not going to get less wrong as the story goes on, right? I've heard the case you and a few like-minded objectors have made and found it, to be quite charitable, less than modestly convincing.
Here's the point, though. You've very clearly stopped listening to anything but your own preconceptions, and that's fine. But it sounds like you're not enjoying reading at this point. If that's how you really feel, I genuinely suggest you find something here on fimfiction that matches your biases better, because this story never will. Not every story is for every reader, and watching you torture yourself is painful to say the least.
That's actually quite a huge table turner in war. Not only does this mean Equestria's forces can communicate exponentially faster than Accipio's, but without radios of their own there is no way for Accipio to intercept these communications. But on their end, the same can't be said for their own physically carried ones.
I mean, as a critic of pony ability shown thus far, I'm fine with this chapter. It hasn't exactly disabused me of my concerns, because these ponies haven't really had a chance to do anything yet, but on the surface they at least aren't showing their bellies before their griffin master, there. I don't want them to be bloodthirsty monsters either(though it's preferable to what we've been shown up to this chapter). I just want some competence displayed, and I think we've received that here, insofar as the situation demands it. Good chapter.
I may not comprehend each and every plot point made in the course of the writing, but I still find it a damn good read. I look forward to each installment. Once it is complete, I'll go back and reread the entire story, catching what I had missed before.
We may not always see eye to eye, Star, but you is a damn good writer. Nothing's going to change that, in my opinion.
I can hope the griffon emperor has the sense Faust gave a turnip, times ten, and truly have the honor necessary to avert a full war. Santiago, on the other claw...
8979731
And the fact you put this cliche front and center so he could be immediately smacked down by the savvy griffon and her slave have nothing to do with my irritation. This is the third named pony "soldier" we've seen in this story, and the second one to act like an idiot in front of the griffons. If you want people to stop pointing out the unsavory depiction of ponies in this story, don't make only one-in-five competent.
Which one? The one where the mass-manufacturing of modern weapons in a rural setting is somehow covert (because salt-peter, sulfur, brass, lead, and iron apparently grow on trees)? Or the one where Equestria sent untrained, under-equipped, obsolete ships to patrol a potentially hostile border without any support?
Tell me, Mr. Pot, what biases are those I'm clinging to? That I like stories that don't contradict themselves, and which have consistent characters and world building?
There seems to be a massive intrest in the theoretical outcome of a thoretical war in this story as fat as the comments have shown. This is sad because there seems to be a lack of intrests in other equally compelling aspects of the world Starscribe is building. Like how theres not enough wealth to compensate the gryphons or persuade them on the issue of "slavery" (in this case indentured servitude) but has no one considered that theyre clearly only referancing material wealth? Theyve made no mention of the wealth of their knowlage. Ponies have medical knowlage that can bring back a gryphon from near death. Technological knowlage of how to communicate via radio. Just imagine what advancements like this could do for a culture like that of the gryphons. Stuff like this could revolutionize the way the live in massive ways even going so far as disruping thier societies dependance on a slave system. This to me is exciting and I cannot wait to see where the story goes from here
8979819
Oh we've made repeated note of this, and are just as interested. There just has been a lot more of the war side of things because, well, the story has been pretty gryphon focused until now, and the gryphons are all about war.
...
Wait a moment. I thought the Griffons had to get rid of their Cannons and Firearms under the treaty?
Or was it just disarming ships of their cannon?
8979850
Get rid off. I recall "dumping them in the ocean" being mentioned.
8979731 Okay, as much as I hold to the idea of "My story, my rules" come on now. They raise some very good points - showing 20% of the ponies to be competent does not remove the idiot ball, how in the world is whats happening in Griffonstone secret, etc - and your response is to snark and say "Well you've just got your hands on your ears and you're chanting lalalalalala".
I'd honestly come to expect more from you by this point. This is childish.
8979816
I started this comment by explaining in detail how literally not one of the factual claims you made about the story in your comment is accurate. But upon reflection, that's a huge waste of time. You weren't convinced by that last time, so going through that dance again will not be productive here.
Let me use another angle. At this point, if you can read this chapter and the last one and still be unsatisfied with the depiction of ponies in it, I can forecast with certainty (as I've nearly finished writing the story) that you will not enjoy the rest of this story either. You and your coterie have already likely down-voted the story, you've already made your displeasure known in the comments. What else is there to do?
I'll only say that my wish as a writer is to entertain those who read my work. If my writing has failed to create an enjoyable experience for you, I really think you shouldn't waste your time with me. You should find someone who can cater to your dramatic interests better. That's the beauty of such an excellent site during the days while the community is still thriving, there's bound to be someone whose tastes as a writer will match yours as a reader. Perhaps something else I've written will match your preferences more, or perhaps I'm simply inadequacy in my abilities and you will have to go elsewhere.
Either way, I think there's way too much great writing on fimfiction to waste time reading things you don't enjoy.
8979911
Well, I have now. No matter how obliquly you phrase it, I don't like being told I'm not smart enough to enjoy a story. And just because I pointed out the inconsistencies and inconvenient truths undercutting your explanation doesn't mean I can't be convinced.
8979938
Not smart enough? I never said anything like that, and never would!
Take a deep breath, man, maybe cool off a little, then read my comment again. I commented only on the self-evident fact that you aren't enjoying the story. What on earth made you think the problem was with you? Even as I (and I do) think you're 100% completely wrong about your problems with the story, the one thing you can't be wrong about are your preferences. Read what I just said. Did I ever suggest you ought to change your preferences, or that you should see it my way? Did I suggest you weren't equal to the task of reading the story? I'm pretty sure I didn't, and if my communication skills failed me and you somehow got that impression I sincerely apologize.
I don't like loads of things that plenty of smart people like. I don't enjoy Childish Gambino, I don't enjoy the newest star trek reboot series. I typically don't even read stories on fimfiction that don't have the human tag, though there have been exceptions over the years. That isn't because I don't think I'm smart enjoy to enjoy those things.
Let me be explicit. I was making no judgement about you whatsoever. I think it's absolutely cool to think my writing is trash and without merit whatsoever. I think that opinion is wrong, but I don't make judgement on those who hold it. Preferences in art and enjoyment are typically arbitrary. I don't hate strawberry and love vanilla ice cream because I'm smarter than those who like strawberry, or maybe dumber. I like it because I like something different.
My suggestion that you should read something else came purely from your obvious dissatisfaction, and the certain knowledge of what is to come and my confidence in telling the story as I planned it. The only person whose abilities I impugned was my own, by suggesting that I might not be good enough to write anything you would enjoy.
Let's all just pretend this is House Vengeance's fault, because it mostly is, and go beat them up together since their House is pretty terrible anyways.
Geeze, they don't even know what radio is.
Oooo, not only is it a fancy modern worship, it apparently has the speed of one too.
8979888
As I don't think we've spoken yet, I'll try explaining. It isn't a good point because it isn't true. That 20% figure is entirely arbitrary, and not even remotely based in fact.
The number of pony soldiers we've actually seen in the story was quite low until last chapter. The number would probably be zero, except that we've seen plenty of guards around the princesses and Velar has always been guarded while in Equestria. All of those ponies have been competent and acted with dignity and respect, but since you'd only really notice them if they didn't I'm not surprised plenty of people missed that. Likewise readers appear to have forgotten the Daughter of Wintergreen and its crew of ponies, a well-traveled crew who held their own in the Accipian corner of the world at the height of the empire's power without difficulty. But hey, let's just ignore anything that's inconvenient for our narrative, those ponies don't count. Celestia and Luna's guards up to this point don't count, Velar's guards don't count. An entire warship of skilled ponies don't count, the landing force don't count. Let's forget about them too.
Apparently only one military pony in the whole story counts, Silver Moon, who hasn't done anything incompetent but is certainly ascorbic.
Then we're going to count a whole bunch of ponies who are military only by charter, ie the merchant marine the Lapwing encountered and whose non-combatant crews were overpowered by the finest griffin warriors in the world.
Let me be a tad more explicit. I've tried to depict Equestria as I've seen it in the show, reacting to the changes that Accipio is forcing on them. That is: a nation that's been consistently unprepared for war, a nation that's been invaded several times and only survived thanks to the efforts of powerful heroes. Equestria is coming to realize that their attitude is not a sustainable one in a world that doesn't react to problems as peacefully as they do, but cultures have inertia and change is a painfully slow thing. When so much of the society's efforts have to be directed to simply surviving the climate catastrophe, change is even slower.
Think that interpretation is right or wrong, that's fine. But saying only 20% of the ponies are competent is simply not accurate.
8980006 I see. While I understand the argument of 'every guard in the background wasn't an idiot', the 'Equestria is only now realizing they need to change' really doesn't help the idiot-ball assessment. They've been bordering these awful, awful birds for how many centuries? And they only now think to ask themselves "What if we need a bigger military in case we don't always have heroes?"
That's the problem with trying to use canon-Equestria's military development. The history you have created here makes it unbelievable that this Equestria would stick to canon-Equestria's military development in the backstory, only suddenly changing when the story begins.
8979976
I'm going to work under the assumption that your confusion is honest, and that you honestly don't understand the implications of the comments you've made. I really hope this is the case or I've just wasted my time.
Let me start at the beginning, for some context.
The first time you replied to me was back in Chapter 27, the first time I openly criticized with what I admit was some salt. Your response?
Translation: You're wrong. No, I won't tell you why. You obviously missed something.
Some back and forth followed about whether the ponies were navy or coast guard, you add some context to an ambiguous statement about flintlocks, and then we get this:
Again, you missed something. Except I didn't. I actually downloaded a copy of the story to read offline earlier that day, which is how I know that you added that bit in chapter 23 after I made my comment, and then used it as ammunition to say I misread the story. That's a real jerk-move, and the only reason I didn't get into it is because your next comment seemed to be trying to defuse the situation, and I'd been arguing in the comments all day and didn't want to get into a personal spat with the author.
And then we have today, where you started off by mocking my criticism of your use of a cliche, and followed by:
Translation: You're just as wrong now as you were before, and I'm still not going to explain. You and everyone else criticizing this point are making really bad arguments, and no, I'm not going to explain that either.
Translation: You're closed-minded, and the reason you're not enjoying this story is because you're biased. Go read something else, because reading this is obviously hard for you.
This one just confused me. Do you have me confused with someone else? the only thing you ever explained "in detail" is that
a) the monks are the best warriors the griffons have,
b) the ships weren't warships, but actually a coast guard equivalent (except they're also navy, but not really because their ships aren't the ones the navy uses, whatever),
c) griffons have civil war weapons tech.
Translation: Basically exactly what it says.
Translation: You obviously don't like this story, but you and others who think like you are just a vocal minority.
Taken together: You're only criticizing this story because you're not reading it thoroughly enough, or you don't understanding what I've written. If you still don't like it, then you should go read something that conforms to your narrow biases.
Whatever you intended, you come off really condescending and, and your consistent pushing to "stop reading and find something that fits your biases" are something I find kind of insulting.
8980052
Yes, and I realized I was going to be making a tradeoff when I wrote the story. There's always that degree to which Equestria's actions would make even less sense than the do in the show with these things, but in exchange we would have a less recognizable Equestria that solves its problems in less Equestrian ways. That's one of the reasons I suggested that those who were unhappy shouldn't torture themselves by reading on--not because I don't think they're smart enough, or because I'm trying to sass them, but because I've made the decision about what kind of Equestria to write about now, and that decision won't change as the story ramps up into its climax.
Though at least we'll get to see the result of the pressure from the south, as we've already started to do in this chapter. But if the Equestrian military in these last few chapters fails to meet someone's standard as a reader, then I worry nothing I could write possibly could.
I love how the ponies seem closer to early 20th century technology and time goes on. I love the world building.
Only thing that I might find annoying, and I have not seen enough yet to know if it truly is a problem for me, and that is the potential of the bat ponies or what ever people call them, somehow being the elite. I am rather tired of the trope that just because they look "cool" to soo many, that they are then dedicated to being the edgy ponies when it comes to military. Even worse when Luna is allways shown as the one who is the good military leader. I mean seriously, Celestia has rules alone for 1000 years more than Luna, that would mean that she has 1000 years of experience more more than Luna and would be better acclimated.
So I just hope that this fic does not just fall in to the 'bat ponies/night guard and Luna being the elite and the best above everyone else'.
Except for that, love it.
8979783
This and more really lends me to believe that the ponies are not avoiding war because they are afraid of loosing. Seriously, radios can mean extremely complex coordination among armed forces, instantly reacting to what your enemies do (depending on how reliable these radios are).
It seems that the ponies are more interested in avoiding war because they know that wars in general are bad and lead to misery and suffering, not to mention with a big disaster just having happened, one so big it wiped out and entire nation, possibly major part of a continent, any kind of war might not be desirable, no matter who wins. I think it was even said in an earlier chapter that the ponies as well had trouble ensuring food enough for the winter and that is with all their magic to help them. If the ponies have trouble come winter, it is no surprising they do not want to commit resources or man power to fighting.
8980066
Alright, I can see how you're confused. It's pretty clear you stopped reading after the first paragraph of my second comment, then responded to your experiences as a whole. When I said that I never told you that you weren't smart enough to be reading, I meant exactly that. Or, the actual comment as follows:
My next comment explains in more detail, because I mistakenly thought you were responding to my comment, but since it's now obvious you were not, let me be explicit:
You have taken the time to explain your arguments and I have been unconvinced. Though there was the one time you correctly pointed out that the story had not provided enough detail to be clear about the types of weapons being used, and I corrected that. I still appreciate your sharp eye on those.
But that's off the path. Key points. You've gone to great lengths to explain how you feel, and not convinced me. I have tried to explain things and you have been unconvinced. Given that, we now know that the story is not going to change, nor is your interpretation of it going to change. I make no claims about the correctness of these points here, since they're irreverent. The real point I was making was that you'd already tried to convince me, failed. I'd tried to convince you, failed, which leads into the next point.
It's nothing to do with anyone's intelligence. It is, rather, that the story isn't going to change (because I'm not convinced), and you're not going to change your opinion on its interpretation (because you're not convinced) leading to the natural conclusion that you're not going to enjoy the rest of it and that you're torturing yourself by reading further.
I spoke only out of respect and good faith, suggesting that someone who hates something shouldn't keep torturing themselves with it when they're surrounded by so many better options. You've almost made it to the conclusion, that's certainly enough to give it its fair shake. If it still doesn't measure up to you, maybe crack open another flavor instead. That's what I was saying, and it's still my contention now.
8980104
Well... I gotta say, how Empty explained it, that's how your comments came across to me too. Excepting the part of finding something different to read. Clarifying was very helpful.
Also, let me note that some of these problems are very much because of Show Versus Tell. I didn't find a depiction of the Daughter of Wintergreen fighting. Is that ship so powerful then? Contrasting to this, I know Equestria's doctors are capable not only because we were told, but because we could see it when they helped Velar. Look at 8980079 point about Bat Ponies being the superior elite. I've seen that in other stories. When the Heart's Shadow appeared and only had Bat Ponies manning it, I had the same worries because we only have those poor butchered sailors as actual comparison. And I am convinced as well if Gideon's monks had shown to be this lethal before that fight (one that I'm pretty sure even excellent martial atists would rather not be caught up in), it wouldn't have been so jarring.
Think of it like hearing Rainbow Dash is one of the fastest ponies in Equestria, and seeing her trophies, but whenever she's racing on screen, she loses. Wouldn't you find yourself questioning that claim at some point?
That's just my opinion, though.
8980104
I think it's rather telling that you responded to your own comment, rather than mine.
Frankly, I will agree that I think I should stop reading. And not because I "hate the story," because despite my issues with it I probably would have given it an upvote once it concluded; I was still invested in the outcome and wanted to know where it was going, and probably would have been satisfied if the story didn't go radically off-the rails at the end.
I'm going to stop reading, not because the story lost my interest, but because the author lost my trust. As much as I want to believe in the sincerity of your rationalization, you've already shown that you're willing to covertly make changes to your story, and then pretend I missed it in order get one up on me. And you wonder why I doubt you when you claim not to insult my intelligence.
I'm done.
finally an end to this
8980152
pretend I missed it Explicitly a lie. I never pretended you missed anything. You clearly stopped reading anything I said maybe two hours ago, but I'll provide it again in case anyone else might be reading.
That argument came at a time when you were claiming you had superior knowledge than me about the technology of my own setting. I pointed out that I have been explicit in the comments about the tech level, and you pointed out an example of the word being used in a historical context. I pointed out to you that I was making changes for the sake of clarity multiple times. I was absolutely honestly with you about the flaws of a serialized system, and acknowledged my writing had inadequately expressed what was in my head.
Yes, it is exceptionally covert when I give you credit for finding a mistake and then explain that I've made changes and will continue to look for further flaws in past chapters. It is truly diabolical to be explicit with my actions and intentions in the comments.
But I'll continue to do what I've done up to this point and respond in good faith, whether or not it's returned. I'm sincerely sorry you haven't had an enjoyable experience. I hope you can find stories that are more to your taste elsewhere. I wish you only the best.
8980195
That might make sense, if you ignore the timing. You challenged my reading of the text ("the story does not say that") and pointed to a passage from Chapter 23, which you had just written in, to back that up. If you were being honest about that, you wouldn't have "corrected" me on something I didn't get wrong.
Incidentally, I still get notifications when people reply to my comment, so if you want to pretend I won't read your replies, then don't reply to me.
8980219
My comment and those around it make it explicitly clear that I am making corrections. I'm not "pretending" you're not reading recently because of anything about that point, I'm pointing that out because you're insisting that I made a point ("you're too stupid to enjoy my story") that I explicitly denied at least five times, then apologized for despite a lack of evidence to support it.
That's why I said you weren't reading.
8980250
Either you honestly don't get how I could "misinterpret" your comment, or you're just trying to save face, and I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt.
8980266
I'm sincerely sorry if you had a negative experience. I wish you only the best in finding stories you like more in the future.
8979819
I mean the griffins believe exactly nothing about the Equestrians being more advanced in any way, technologically, magically, and even believe, the male doctors and female military officers are a joke.
The ponies would probably have to show the griffins exactly how their tech and spells work before they even consider accepting them, and then they'd turn around and make their own, or reject anything that was invented by a stallion
Much Drama below, beware ye all that enter.
Now that I've acknowledged that can of worms, can we get back to the story please?
For those worrying about bat ponies being the only competent member of the equestrian military, I would like to point something out.
The ship they're on is obviously a hunter ship deployed to search for survivors of the crashed coast guard ship from previous chapters. Being close to the border, foal play would obviously can't be ruled out, and bat ponies have obvious advantage in seeking out targets with their superior hearing. Also, while a good many of the crew ARE bat ponies, there is also at least ONE unicorn there to hold a gun and likely more stationed elsewhere on the ship. Heck, Star is likely using an antagonistic bat pony just to try and throw off the general perception of them as perfect soldiers.
The Equestrian military is in a state of flux right now. While they have kept trend with advances made in military technology (they have guns of their own, that development did not happen overnight) they do not have the culturally experience that we take for granted. No "Art of War" or major possible upheavals until this point where they (literally) are being forced to bed their enemy. Before, they had an ocean between them and no reason strong enough to want to seek out war for their own initiative. No need to compete for resources when you can LITERALLY control nature and it's bounty.......Well, at least until Mother Nature flips you the big middle finger and detonates a Super volcano. :P
8980302
dude he’s gone, stop with the passive aggressive professional formal comments and drop it, you both had points and you both were wrong in places but it’s all over and done with, just let it die.
Still sorta waiting to see how the weather situation is going; u now with the giant ash cloud, and maybe upcoming extra seismic activity, from the super volcanic aftermath.
8979688
Lets hope our collective nut's at least survive, if the kick land's
8980152
Look, man, I agree with a lot of the criticisms of this story (including but not limited to the whitewashing of slavery, the inexplicable incompetence of the pony coast guard, and the sudden arrival of the 'real elites' who are bat ponies because of course they're bat ponies), but you're treating this exchange with Starscribe like it's combat or something. I know how painful it is to read something you profoundly disagree with, but at a certain point you just have to say to yourself, "This author is wrong, but my writing harsh comments is not going to make things better."
You can't go through life trying to fix everything you disagree with on the internet. You'll go crazy if you try. When the next chapter comes out, if you feel the need to comment, just say "Hey, I felt that [insert feelings here]." One of the things I've learned as a reviewer is that if you preface your criticism with that note, it will be received better and is more likely to result in changes. And that's what you want, right?
Ultimately, as much as I disagree with a lot of the stuff in this story, I have to come down on Starscribe's side because it's his story. That matters more than anything else if you want a healthy writing community like we have here.
8980362
Flux. Thats actually interesting.
Equestria might have the tech but do they have the discipline and experience to use it effectively? It does look like they're rapidly developing but in a war we might see tech not being used to its full potential due to lack of experience. Something the more tactically mindful griffons (ie the ones smart enough to not charge head on) might exploit.
Not exactly ww1 but definitely a weakness in asymmetrical warfare. Keep the war going long enough to threaten starvation in equestria (though it will also happen to your own people but survival...) and then negotiate terms of peace.
8980993
NO! Don't encourage lame ass readers continuing their stupid crusades in the comments to change the story simply because they "don't like it." The correct response is "hey man, you don't like this story. But hey, there's like fifty thousand other FREE stories to read on here so just move on." You're a fimfic AUTHOR, you've experienced this I'm sure thousands of times before, why in the hell would you promote such a thing?!
I LIKE this story. I don't want the author to change shit based on the whim of people who can't handle imaginary slavery. I don't care if the imaginary pony sailors couldn't handle a bunch of imaginary griffons. I enjoy this story, and if that makes me subpar in your mind's eye so be it, but God damn leave well enough alone and let the people who enjoy it in peace dammit!
Jesus Fucking Christ.
8980238
Well, that, and those who practice magics others easily deem forbidden tend to be very defensive about their magic's strengths, and dismissive about its costs.
8982004
Authors crave feedback. Sometimes it will be positive (hopefully most of the time), and sometimes it will be negative. Personally, I think it speaks very highly of Starscribe that he managed to create a story so compelling that people actually get upset when reading it because of what they feel are flaws.
Okay here's something I really don't get.
The only country that's ever beaten Accipio is headed by a female.
Judging by the timeline it would've been headed by just Celestia at the time.
Why are they so sure that females can't fight or lead or whatever when Celestia is the only one who's beaten them?
Cause they claim to respect strength, but they clearly A.) don't respect the Princesses and B.) Don't think females can lead.
8982190
You know what, you're right, and since I have you here there are a few pieces of constructive feedback that I have for Salvation. The settings all wrong, the characters are all wrong. Dash would never find interest in poetry, change it to philosophy. In fact she'd never find interest in Soarin but Spit instead, so rewrite chapters 1-8 with those changes, because right now it's all wrong, Also Dash would find love again, in the form of my OC Dubious Ass, so you need to change that too. Get to it author, I'll be waiting on the rough drafts to approve!
Was that feedback, or was that me being a complete and utter ass? Pacing, the fleshing of a character or arc of a story, grammar, all these things are subject to the reader's criticisms. The contents of the world laid therein are not; it's the author's and the author's alone, and as such there is no right or wrong way to go about it.
It's been the same people every Monday posting their same grievances and trashing a story that they obviously will never like. Go find a different one, why make things so toxic for those that actually enjoy it? Or better yet, actually try to write the story you wanted to see yourself! Maybe you'd have a better appreciation of the time and effort that goes into it, and how utterly and incredibly rude it is to have someone tell you the world you built is wrong.
8983005
It wasn't in good faith.
Unless my reading comprehension is a lot worse than I thought and Gina is a hippogriff, I don't think she has hooves.
8983215
Gryphon, technically.
8983005 You know you're the one who's acting like a jerk here, 8982190 was just giving advice on how to word the comments so they don't sound so angry and how to better offer criticism and make suggestions, Starscribe's already made it clear they're not gonna change the story based on the comments, so why are you attacking the person who just offered some advice?
8980362
You are right about both the Unicorn on the ship and the one Bat Pony soldier who needs to be sat down and scolded showing things are not as simple as they looked at first. Kind of the main issue. Look at the aftermath of the battle on the Lapwing, we still don't know how many monks were injured. Maybe all but two or three died when they found out crossbow bolts don't care if you think the creature firing at you is dumb and weak, they can still kill you.
8983176
Nor was it useful. Failing to explain why one believes something is wrong makes the criticism pretty much worthless.
Cannot wait for today's chapter!
I'm currently in the army. Such conduct from a soldier is at least to my mind insubordination and disrespect to a higher authority. What a jackass.