Let's talk about free speech! · 10:32pm Jul 17th, 2020
Once again, others are taking initiative, so I'm feeling empowered to finally talk about something that's been on my mind for... Well, considerably longer than the current period of societal upheaval, if I'm being honest.
A word before we start: This isn't based on anything but my own thoughts over the course of the past couple years. I have no sources to cite, I'm not a free speech scholar, I just want to tell you some ideas, and I am not good at knowing things or explaining myself. Imma try.
Also, this is of course aimed at my fellows who live in the U.S., but others are welcome to turn a curious eye towards it.
...Okay, this was going to be a long, somewhat rambly thing wherein I tried to sound academic despite starting off the blog by saying I'm not one. Then the entire internet got DDoS'd, so let's just make a few points.
Point #1: Freedom of speech as granted by the U.S. Constitution does not protect you from repercussions for saying dumb shit to people.
You've doubtless heard this argument before. The whole point of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution is the protect your speech from the government. You can't be hauled off to jail for speaking out against the powers that be. (Except for the times when you can, but that's beside the point.)
Other people, websites, businesses, they can all kick your ass to the curb for insulting them. Sometimes they do. That's not oppression; that's people getting pissed off because you decided to be a jerk to them.
Point #2: Freedoms and rights are power
Last month, the Philippine government enacted a so-called anti-terrorism law that's really just meant to curtail criticism of the government. Social media was full of Filipinos asking people outside their country to blog, tweet and signal boost the issue, because they could not.
Why? Because people outside the Philippines don't have to worry about the Philippine government punishing them for speaking out against said government. Those people have a freedom that Filipinos do not, and are able to speak on their behalf because they have the power to.
I hope that is an adequately illustrative example as I move in to the next point.
Point #3: With great power comes great responsibility
Or, if you're the religious sort, "To whomever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked." Luke 12:48
Or, if you're a French Revolutionary, Ils doivent envisager qu'une grande responsabilité est la suite inséparable d'un grand pouvoir.
What, you think I shouldn't take inspiration for life philosophies from comic books? Then I ask you, what the hell are they for? And cartoons, TV shows, movies, music? You shut up.
Point #4: We need to talk more about responsibility of speech
In the U.S., you hear a lot about freedoms. We've got so many, after all, and they're inalienable! (Unless, of course they're currently actively being eroded.) You grow up learning about freedom, and the land of the free, and how much worse people in other countries have it because they just aren't so gosh-darned free.
You never hear of these freedoms framed in terms of power. You never hear anyone say they come with responsibility. And I think that's where we've really failed as a society.
I can't think of a way to say it more bluntly than this:
If you're an American, you've got the rights, privileges and powers that come with being a citizen of one of the most powerful nations in the world.
Are you really going to use that power to shit on everyone in sight?
Are you gonna take that power of free speech and use it to hurt people?
You've got the ability to say anything you want, without fear of governmental repercussion, and you're gonna be an asshole?
Hate speech, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, anti-Islamism, ethnic jokes, denigrating the poor, the list goes on. Is this really the best you can come up with, given all the power in the world to say what you want to say? Is that honestly the best you can do? Come on.
In the words of someone who got a few hundred thousand likes on Twitter, I don't know what I can say to convince you that you should care about other people.
Can I appeal to God? The government? Stan Lee? Common fucking decency?
Recognize your power and use it responsibly. Even if you feel like you don't have a platform from which to speak, someone will hear what you have to say.
What do you want them to take away from you?
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Good post, P.P.
People should understand they don't live in a vacuum. Individual choices compound up to the collective. Spouting and platforming dehumanizing content, especially when one has a large outreach, is damaging for everyone, firstly for the most disenfranchised. Neoliberalism rewards antisocial behaviors, which hide behind a misreading of what free speech is.
Yes. Yes, it really is, because that's their whole point to mouthing off about that shit: promotion. They think there isn't enough racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, anti-Islamism, etc, etc, etc going around.
And the people out there defending "free speech" at all costs are fascists and bigots who are in favor of the free promotion of all that.
We have got to stop being so goddamn polite, or we are going to lose our country to the brutal fascists in our midst.
Well and thoughtfully said, PP. I completely agree with all you've said here.
There is just one point I would like put out there, fwiw.
In the United States, the citizens do have the right and freedom to say, write, print or create anything they wish. It's sometimes difficult, frustrating and even infuriating to some to remember that point.
Yes, other people have the right to not like or appreciate a point of view that they disagree with or that is insensitive to them in some way.
Just the same way that others have the right to say or write or draw that which may offend others.
The hardest part of having freedom is watching someone use that freedom to promote a point that one doesn't agree with. But one has to remember that they have that right, just as others have the right to object to or ignore them.
That is part of what real freedom is about. You have to take the bad and the good. Just be watchful of them both.
Overzealousness is just as bad as any recognized evil and can cause just as much conflict.
That being said, I don't believe that anyone should go out of their way to intentionally hurt, humiliate or subjugate anyone else. It hurts everyone and serves no purpose except to be harmful. It's not always easy to tell. Sometimes a parody can be too on the mark. But the intent should never be to deliberately cause harm. That's the difference.
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When a person can't be counted on to use their freedom of speech in a responsible manner, it falls to the community to correct their behavior lest it reach a point beyond the pale from which they can never return.
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And of course, fimfiction is not the US government and is not bound to follow the First Amendment. Fimfiction can write codes of conduct to foster a friendly community and can kick people out for breaking them.
In normal circumstances everyone understands this just fine. But for some strange reason when it comes to literally the worst people on the web we're told that we have to treat them with much more lenience and forgiveness than we would give to anyone else, or else we are just as bad as them. To hell with that.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here (except that I don't find citations to Luke compelling for fairly obvious reasons), but looking at one of the linked pieces really pissed me off, and I've gotta get this off my chest.
"Mao did at least one thing right."
No. Fuck that noise. The man was responsible for millions more deaths than Hitler, for God's sake! We should kick out the Nazis — and then also every other apologist for mass-murdering dictators, and Mao definitely counts. That it wasn't ethnically targeted like Hitler or Stalin's killings and therefore doesn't really qualify as genocide doesn't make him any less evil.
Maybe this is making me so mad because his heirs are currently engaging in actual genocide, and the world is sitting on its fucking hands, so it's especially galling to hear comfortable Western leftists engaging in apologetics of any kind for the CCP.
Great blog! I especially like the emphasis on being responsible with free speech.
Point #1 is something people just do not fucking understand and it needs to be drilled into their eyeballs. It's infuriating.
"wElL I hAvE frEEdOm oF SpeEcH! YoU cAN't Be MaD aT mEEEEeee." Just...fuck you, you say terrible shit, you deserve to be dragged through the mud.
God I cringe at the day my future kids come up to me and ask me about 2016-2020. I'll have a full on PTSD Vietnam flashback and just scream silently into the void.
I like seeing things I agree with in these trying times. Makes me feel like maybe I'm not the crazy one in all this.
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Right. If the best thing these people can say to defend their speech is that it's literally not illegal, it's not really a defense so much as a concession.
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I can relate. I think right now we are trying to figure out where the line should be drawn. From edgy to unacceptable.
5311932
It was a joke about landlords, and the radical redistribution of their heads into baskets. I was feeling spicy that day.
The CCP (and unironic tankies, for that matter) can absolutely get fucked.
What free speech warriors don't get is that literally any freedom we have is not absolute and comes with certain caveats. I'm generally of the view that these exceptions should be rather limited, but there are always exceptions, and there always have been. The reason why is obvious to anyone really thinks about it. We have freedom of religion, but we (nominally) also have separation of church and state. We can't make the government or anyone else follow our religion. We have freedom of speech, but things like libel and slander exist, and we cannot incite to violence.
As those revolutionaries said, with great power comes great responsibility. They ended up learning that the hard way. Speech comes with responsibility because it can have power. When used irresponsibly, it can be deadly like a weapon. It is not a simple, black and white thing, something you either have or don't have. It definitely can't be boiled down to whether or not we allow things like hate speech laws or allow inherently violent movements like Nazism to proselytize with a megaphone.
Somehow, this is radical position, one that has led some to call me an advocate for censorship, just because I don't think that fascists are entitled to a soapbox. Free speech means you can't be punished for what you say, not that we have to put up with people when they start screaming about Jews and black people.
Well said... that's an incredibly good point.
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Fair point! I recommend talking to Aquaman about it. It does gall me that nothing can be done about the current regime in China, though. :/
Me neither, but some might!
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That's what helps me get these blogs out in the first place. Glad to assist.
5311894
Kudos to you for an excellent blog, and for bringing up a major point: free speech is a right. But – and this is the part the trolls hate – speech via the use of a particular platform, be it pulpit, stage, publication, blog, social media is a privilege granted by whoever granted the use of that platform, whether an individual or a community.
Right are inalienable, privileges are not. By breaking the rules of a platform, a person breaks the implicit contract made with those who granted the use of that platform in the first place. By breaking the rules they deserve to lose that privilege.
A good legal example of this principle is the rule about not shouting "Fire" in a crowded place, such as a movie theatre, thereby causing a stampede in which people could be hurt or killed. Entering a crowd is effectively joining in a community, and so each individual in the crowd has a responsibility to the group not to use it to hurt the other members. A community like FIMfiction, or even more a particular group formed within the community has rules and the right to impose those rules. You don't like the rules, find another group.
BTW - this principle also applies in the broader context of societies and countries. Rules are imposed so that people can live together, even though we are not all the same. Hate speech is banned and carries penalties because not only it carries the potential to hurt those who are most vulnerable, but also because by hurting the least of us, it diminishes all of us, destroying the very fabric of society and country.
BTW, a lack of responsibility is the main thing that characterizes a troll from your garden variety angry person. A person can be angry and responsibly use that energy to effect change without causing wholesale damage to the community. But don't say that to a troll. They'll accuse you of impeding their right to free speech.
I don't really have anything constructive to add to this one. Good post.
Well, if only more people would think about the repercussions of opening their mouths and spouting their freedoms. Other people have freedoms, too, and by golly, they'll use it in turn.
Freedom of Speech =/= Entitlement
One has responsibilities that come with it, the other is about becoming the next Karen.
(I might have gone off on a tangent and I apologize.)
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Yes, that is one part of this. And as I've read the responses to my own comments and the discussion among others, I see more of the point that is trying to be made.
Still, what hurts the most is seeing the fandom I love so much being torn by conflict. It's sad to see us this way. Especially when the message is supposed to be about friendship and working through our differences together.
I would never support anything that tolerates evil or hurts others. It's not my way and I hope that is not how any of us think.
With so much that has happened to each of us, especially this year, I hope we can remember what brought us together in the first place. Perhaps that is sappy and stupid and naive but it's my hope, nonetheless.
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SPICY COMMENT
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MEATBALL SPICY SAUCE
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We wouldn't need to be torn by conflict if we could banish the Nazis from the fandom.
Then we could go right back to doing what we do without rancor.
Until that day, though, conflict is the only just response.
Genuinely wondering if I should delete my account over this. I'm sick of being asked to to do a quick cost/benefit analysis when talking to someone posting nazi shit or cheering them on as to whether they'd actually like to see me (pink triangle) and my wife and kids (yellow star) shipped off and exterminated, or whether they're just being ironic or standing up for freedom of speech or the integrity and completeness of the Derpibooru archive or whatever.
Far as I'm concerned, you post nazi shit, you lose the benefit of any doubt I might have had. I just really preferred not knowing how many of you think this is okay. I thought this place, and this fandom, was different.
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True. But these things come and go. If we can survive the Derpy debate and the Twilight getting her wings. I’m pretty sure we will get through this. Weather we learn anything or be better people. Well see. I guess my biggest fear is that we will just become Nazis hunting Nazis.
Great post, man!
I have been reading what is going on. I am for freedom and speech and all but what is going on is the weirdest thing ever. I saw the story I was like what the heck is that? Also, it's clop I am not for clop then I am told it's a nazi story. I am like uh okay? You see I am a neutral person. I look at every side of this matter. It's just gotten strange to me. Of course, I have seen people saying it's making fun of nazis it's this that. It would be easier if one little simple thing. It's there do you have to read it? Nope, I am choosing to stay away from it. But I do see where others are coming from.
I see where they are coming from. But to me, I'd rather stay in the middle and just watch. I know this may anger some folks. But it's better than getting stressed over it. If you get what I mean. So yeah I am getting back to my stories but I do hope this ends with respect and kindness. I know this is much to ask. But sometimes it seems when stuff like this happens from the news. People kind of turned on each other. I don't know the full story of why this happens. I don't normally dig enough to care.
But anyway thank you and I hope everyone has a peaceful day.
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You can not become a monster in a crusade against them by setting clear boundaries and self-evaluating.
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We haven't met, but I'm making a point of providing advice and moral support wherever it's needed. I know this is unsolicited, but I want to encourage you to hang in there. Most of us are angry or wound up right now, and people feeling that way often say or do things they normally wouldn't. (Goodness knows I've done this in the past. The worst part comes later, when you realize how you've made yourself look.)
If we all don't hang tough, eventually there won't be a fandom left to save.
Of course, if it's really unbearable, you could take a short break from the fandom to clear your head, as some have done.
5311894
If only there were people who had the power to unilaterally decide on whether or not neofascist memes were acceptable content for FiMFiction.
I didn't see this blog yesterday, PP, but I'm glad I found it today. Good post!
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Preach. If there was one fandom I thought wouldn't be torn apart by stuff like this it's this one. I remember the golden days. I might be foolish, but I still think that the vast majority of bronies are good people who don't like this stuff either. I know I don't.
5313010
If ya don't like it, help us get rid of it. We should've been taking this seriously a long time ago, and I'm just as complicit in not trying to remove Nazis before the year 2020 as anyone. :B
5312082
That's fair, I guess. I'm opposed to anti-landlord violence (in part because I've known people who had honestly excellent landlords, and also because economic-based violence never ends well and has so often ended up being an excuse for rounding up Jews and killing, expelling, or forcibly converting them), but that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to respond and doing so without rancor.
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Can't be on a crusade and not a monster. Sincerely, Jews, Muslims, and Christian minorities.
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Yeah, that's what you call a poor choice of words. Mea culpa. :(
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Forgiven. I know it was meant in good spirit. But that is the thing that scares me about holy wars and revolutions. It's very easy to slip intro a monstrous place. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for a good cause, just that constant vigilance and self-examination is necessary.
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I sincerely doubt PP was using the word "crusade" in the historic sense of the word.
Gee. A sane sensible blog post among all this drama. You've restored a bit of my faith in humanity.
Who an 'asshole' is is largely subjective, and emotive. An emotional reaction is a moralistic, and morals are subjective. The problem with this viewpoint is that what a person feels like is an 'assholey' thing to say is perfectly fine to another. I would advise not saying hurtful things to people for the sake of decency but I wouldn't ban those things on the off-chance someone might say them.
What do you say to the people who would rather strip individuals of this power?
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I am completely a-religious, was not raised in a religion, and so tend to forget religion even exists. Which is unfortunate, because at least two of them are historically very tied up with ethnicities who continue to be persecuted today.
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You're not asking that second question in good faith, but I will say this.
Go out and find the list of questions to ask before you say something. "Is this kind?" "Is it truthful?" "Is it helpful?" That sort of thing. I can't find it because I'm bad at internet.
If someone continues to speak their mind without even trying to abide by those guidelines, then they're an asshole. Even racists can identify racism. It's not up for debate.
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Your intent is clear. If asking people to better themselves in the name of kindness makes me unkind, then so be it.
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That's a disingenuous statement. You want a purge of those you perceive as unkind and despite not knowing me, you've assumed my intentions and you'll also assume the intentions of many others. You're mean spirited, and I hope you become a better, kinder person in time.
Edit: I won't say any more since I know you don't want to hear what any opponents to your line of thought have to say. Goodbye.
5312705
That is one of the things I worry about as well. Also, will we have to be concerned if a group objects to any other subject or idea. I know that sounds a bit far fetched, but it makes me concerned, nonetheless.