As a writer, I find this very disheartening.

A week ago I published the first chapters of story 2 the same day as I had published a chapter in story 1. As documented and understood, story 2 did not appear on the front page. I had expected that. That’s the 24-hour rule.

Today, I published a new chapter in story 2. This meant that this was the first time the story appeared on the front page. It appeared in the updates column, as expected.

After pressing publish, I went to the front page (clicked the FimFiction logo), then clicked the story (second-click) to go back to the story page. This took no more than one minute, probably closer to 30 seconds.

I found two down-votes where previously there had been none!

That’s a total of two down-votes and six previous up-votes. I checked the statistics to make sure. After the time it took me to write this post (45 minutes), my view count remains at the 64 from before I published the chapter. The evidence convinces me none of the down-votes came from anyone who read a chapter or clicked through to the story page to read the long description.

In my experience, I often get at least one down-vote first. I almost alway get at least one down-vote within the first ten minutes. This is the first time I was paying enough attention to document it happened so quickly.

Has this happened to you?

Any ideas what’s going on here? Or is it just bad behavior?

7630967

Downvotes are a necessary evil. Unless it's a bot then yes. You're right.

It could be a number of factors. The person simply dislikes the story so they downvote. A troll person who literally downvotes everything they see without even reading it. Perhaps you have some person who hates you specifically and simply downvotes by seeing your username alone. It could be all sorts of things.

After the time it took me to write this post (45 minutes), my view count remains at the 64 from before I published the chapter.

The view counter updates very slowly, it's not going to change in 45 minutes. I've been featured before when the view counter was still below 100.

Edit: In fact I looked and it still says 64 lol.

7630967

I've had cases in the past where a story of 30k+ words gets downvoted within a minute of it posting. My view is if you are going to downvote it, at least read some of it first....and that means more than one paragraph. Are there bots? I'm not sure. Are there people who downvote over things such as the description or the cover photo?, yes there are. Are there people who may not like a specific author over past interactions and downvote over that, definitely.

It is sadly something that we have to live with, it is something that we risk every time we publish our work on here. I've learned long ago to not let such things bring me down....what is really frustrating is when people will put my story in their favorites folder yet not give it a thumbs up....hell if people would upvote things they fave, my upvote numbers would probably be at least 10-20 higher.

7630982
The issue there is that a lot of people use a favorites folder not as an actual spot for their favorite stories, but just as a bookshelf for things they're currently reading.

7630967
>Has this happened to you?
Yes, it did. After I posted my Jinglemas story, I got a downvote within 5 minutes. No way anyone read that story so fast.

7630983

Well I suppose that explains that away.

7630986
You got me curious. I have a story with over 1,500 upvotes but it's in 5,700 bookshelves. That's actually an insane discrepancy.

p.s. good luck in the game tomorrow from a Jags fan!

7630982

what is really frustrating is when people will put my story in their favorites folder yet not give it a thumbs up....hell if people would upvote things they fave, my upvote numbers would probably be at least 10-20 higher.

Oh man, that’s a mood...if I had a quarter for every time someone put my stories in their favorites folder(s) without upvoting it as well, I’d probably have about 50 bucks. No, that’s not hyperbole, and I’m not kidding.

It really sucks, because upvotes and views are, unfortunately, what gets your story noticed. You can have a thousand favorites on one story, but if it’s only got 10 upvotes, it’s going way, way, waaaaaaaay down to the bottom of the pile of stories on Fimfiction, where nobody will ever find it again unless they either A) follow you, or B) are looking for that specific story.

7630989

That is the thing that kind of discourages me. If I put a story in my bookshelves, I do so because I like it and I give it the upvote I feel it deserves.

And thanks, New England is never an easy team to play....Brady or no Brady....whether at home or on the road.

I'm hoping also to see San Fran beat Dallas....ugh, can't stand Dallas.

7630994

I hear you there. The thing is, it isn't like I have a shortage of followers....even if you only count the active ones and I try to put my stories in all the groups that are applicable for them....and I promote them in the forums in groups that allow it. I don't let all of this keep me down though, I do have some truly devoted fans and I keep on going for them to provide them with material that they like.

7630998
I'm hoping for Green Bay vs. Buffalo in the big dance, but we'll see! As long as it is t the fucking Titans...

My second story here got a downvote within what had to be mere seconds of being published. Either someone violently disliked the description or it was a bot. (So far, it's the only downvote that story ever got.)

7630967 Basically every story gets those first downvotes, so it's still more or less fair to all the authors. Why worry if it's fair?

What wouldn't be fair is if every other story got those downvotes and your story wouldn't.

7630999

Not a fan of the Titans I'm assuming? I personally don't have anything against them but given you're a Jags fan, I can understand why you hate them....sometimes top seeds choke in the first round, Denver was proof of that in the 1996 playoffs, courtesy of your Jaguars.

Hey, thanks Great discussion, everyone. I feel a little better. Maybe now I can concentrate in getting story 2 finished.

7630989
Though I usually count the view to up-vote ratio, you are quoting 26% ratio. For your ratio, my latest is about 10%. The views to up-vote ratio is about 9%.

7630978
I’ve had three stories that popped. The view counter appears to update every ten minutes, if you are getting views.

7630971
This brings a new meaning to “having fans.” A few down-votes can be useful. 1) It dings the activity counter, point to activity for the story in respect to rankings. 2) It helps to reveal your thermometer. The two down-votes will make mine appear 20% cooler sooner. Really, it’s not the count that bothers me, it’s that it happened

7630982

what is really frustrating is when people will put my story in their favorites folder yet not give it a thumbs up!

Yeah, that’s a pet peeve, too. Like Lucky Seven pointed out, it’s probably using the folder for a place holder. I actually have specially named favorites folders. One reads “Very Special Stories I Would Recommend...” I can’t think of a time I didn’t up-vote at the same time, but I wanted also to make sure the writer understood why.

7631011

I have my faves folder, then a G5 folder, then the everyone, teen, mature, everyone 2 and then other folders for specific types of stories. If I add a story to a folder....with the exception of read it later, I give them an upvote. If I don't like it, I don't keep it around for later.

You have to take into account certain premises or character leads are disliked by some people on principle. A lot of your stories focus on Starlight Glimmer, by far the most polarizing character in the show. That’s something a lot of people won’t like and you have to just accept that.

7630967
I've gotten downvotes within 30 seconds of a story going live. I know sometimes people just instantly downvote things without even reading a word of the story based on the characters involved, a ship they don't like or a subject matter they think should be suppressed. But this was on a pretty standard story in an ongoing series and the sheer speed of the downvote does seem humanly impossible. It sucks, but if it is bots then there doesn't seem to be much of a countermeasure in place to do anything about it. As a writer there seem to be more disheartening things than uplifting ones, all I can say is don't let it stop you from writing the stories you want to write or making the content you want to make.

7631000
Typical.

7631001

Basically every story gets those first downvotes, so it's still more or less fair to all the authors. Why worry if it's fair?

That’s one way of looking at it. Worry, no. Lingering, smoldering, outrage... maybe...

What wouldn't be fair is if every other story got those downvotes and your story wouldn't.

Do you think it’s a built in feature of the site!? (joking)

Actually—but not this time—I’ve wished for any vote even a down-vote, just to get the dang thermometer to display. For me at least, with story descriptions and covers all being interesting but not being standout, I’ll read the one with the thermometer before those without. I’m sorry. I’m undeserving. It also feels like that once the thermometer appears, views and up-votes increase.

7631003
I'll never forget 1999. Finished 15-3 and all of our losses were to those fucks.

7630967
As you might know from other threads, the standards for what stories deserve a downvote can vary wildly from person to person. Some consider upvotes and downvotes sacred things to only hand out to the most wonderful or most heinous stories. Some might be focused on positivity, frequently giving out upvotes but only downvoting the absolute worst. Others might use downvotes to indicate anything they don't care for, while reserving upvotes for only the ones they really enjoy. And some might vote on every single story they see, even if that's just an initial impression or divvying stories up into "upvotes for the ones that look interesting" and "downvotes for the ones I'm not interested in reading." That's not even getting into the people that automatically upvote or downvote particular subjects ("Yay, I love <obscure character>. Upvote!" "Boo, I hate <popular character>. Downvote!").

Given that we have more than a thousand users online at practically any moment of the day, it doesn't take many of those first-impression voters to get the kind of behavior you're describing. It's also why I'd generally recommend not paying attention to downvotes (or any votes, really) until the number passes five or ten, because you get too much noise at low values to get a good impression of the story's reception. Unless that number stays low, in which case the impression is "people aren't reading this."

So no, probably not bots.

However, there are a few things that stand outthat I kinda want to address.

First off, did you actually look at the votes on the story before publishing? Or were you assuming that there were no votes before then? Because even if the story didn't show up on the front page, it would show up to all the people following you and anyone who looked at your story page. There's plenty of opportunity for people to have voted on it.

Second, unless they changed it, I don't think the 24 hour rules works the way you describe it. As I understand it, the 24-hour rule means that new posts won't make the same story show up on the front page again until 24 hours have passed, but I've never heard of a restriction on other stories from the same author. I know I've had multiple stories on the front page at the same time from back-to-back posts, though it may have changed in the few years since then.

7631015

Starlight is the new Flash Sentry? Admittedly, I've never published those fragments featuring Glim, but I've never heard of her sparking auto-downvotes before.

HiE and Flash, OTOH...

7630967

I had near-instant downvotes happen to me at least a couple of times, but I don't recall a time when two of them came when a story was still a minute old. When it happened, I just mentally disregard it and thought of it as either a troll downvote, a downvote from someone that has a problem with me personally, or a downvote purely based on the story's premise or the like, not the story itself.

EDIT: It's only downvotes in the first minute or so of a story's submission/update I'd have that attitude with. Downvotes after five minutes, I'll treat as truly legitimate. Five minutes may not be long enough to read through a story, but you could read more than enough in that time frame to not like how a story seems to be going, even if the story overall is fine, and they might not have dropped the dislike if they had read more of it.

7631015
I can’t give you multiple up-votes for that, so take a gold star! ⭐

...take into account certain premises or character leads are disliked by some people on principle. A lot of your stories focus on Starlight Glimmer, by far the most polarizing character in the show.

That changes my perspective a lot! Thank you. Almost a badge of honor.

I can’t say if it is true statistically, because I’ve not rigorously tracked this phenomenon. On my Manage Stories page, I can see that my Starlight, Sunset, and Songbird Serenade stories do have more down-votes (~3) than my stories with the mane 6, etc (~1). Beyond those two categories, my controversial stories have garnered more down-votes than the Starlight ones, and I am glad they did. It means I succeeded in making the hard points. They were challenging and made people think, and they garnered lots more up-votes. The nature of the biz.

Again, thanks. Great observation. Still doesn’t excuse bad behavior, even if it explains it, IMHO.

7630967
I have myself noticed that some of my stories got downvotes way too fast to have been read by the person who downvoted, but never really cared much since I don't pay that much attention to the voting bar. Figured someone just didn't like the characters that were being tagged for the story or something like that.

On the flip side, I have also gotten upvotes just as quickly.

7631011

reveal your thermometer

You mean upvote/downvote progressBar?

You can see the votes even before you get 5 of them.

7631023
Your ideas on why up and down votes mirror mine. I have never down-voted, however. I just stop reading the story. I some time comment instead if I think I can help a writer.

Anyone else want to state when they up-vote or down-vote? Since I started the thread, I’d be okay if it took that digression.

Did you actually look at the votes on the story before publishing?

Yes I did. That’s why I found the temerity to post this thread. It shocked me how fast it happened!

Remember that I wrote that no one got to see when I posted the first three chapters on the front page of the site. The 64 views and 6 up-votes came from people who went directly from the epilogue of story 1 to the new post of chapter 2. (Ok, I did have blog entries days ago.) Yeah, I suppose someone who read 180,000 challenging words who then clicked the link in the Author Notes to go to the new story might have waited until the minute I posted the fourth chapter to down-vote it.

I’d rather win the lottery, though with my luck, I’d probably get struck by lightning!

I don't think the 24 hour rules works the way you describe it.

It appeared to. I actually wanted to publish the sequel first, but then I thought...did I remember that correctly? So, instead, I published the epilogue first, and saw it comfortably on the front page. About an hour later, I published the sequel. The sequel never displayed on the front page.

When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. I can imagine someone trying to publish multiple stories for the same reason they might publish multiple chapters separately, to get notices, or maybe game the front page. Seems reasonable that there might be an algorithm to prevent such things. Might not be 24-hours for the same author different story those—It might be as simple as my epilogue was at the top of the updates when I published the sequel and it checked for two by the same author as the last post. Result was the same, and I’m glad I published in that order considering what occurred.

7630967
Why bots, there's a bunch of circlejerks out there which mass downvote stuff they don't like. If you switch voting off, they'll downvote comments, which is pretty pathetic. Too bad none of them has enough balls to post angry comments.
Little do they know that downvotes only make me write more degenerate shit.

7631026

Even though she's controversial, I really don't think she's a type of character that is particularly prone to getting immediate downvotes by just being in stories. She can, but it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as likely as, say, a M/M or Anon-a-miss story, even if likes can balance them out, especially the latter story.

And this is coming from someone with 60+ stories and has used the "Starlight Glimmer" tag in forty of them, and I haven't noticed any unusual tendency for them to get immediate downvotes than stories that don't have her.

7631034

On the flip side, I have also gotten upvotes just as quickly.

Envious.
7631042
Progress bar, then. Aways having the red of at least one down-vote, it looks like a thermometer to me.

You can see the votes even before you get 5 of them.

Last I looked, the thermometer progress bar shows up only when you have ten votes. It, of course, shows up for you any time you view your own story, except (I believe) on the front page. Btw, as of the time I am posting this reply, I now have four down-votes, and my progress bar is now visible!

7631026
Flash was near universally disliked from the start aside from fringe diehards. There’s no comparison.

7631045

Too bad none of them has enough balls to post angry comments.

You get a gold star, too!💫

Fabulous point. To Humanity’s point, I’d love to get comments that said, “I don't like Starlight. Write about character-X..” or “Making Starlight like to fight makes her X...” Maybe not constructive criticism, but it helps a writer understand elements of the readership.

Little do they know that downvotes only make me write more degenerate shit.

I looked. You've got some well written s**t, but not my thing. I did not down-vote, sorry. Keep writing.

7631034
Yeah, some people vote on description alone.
"No time to read, but it's every citizens duty to vote", or whatever they teach these days.

7630989
From what I've seen, bookshelves are used by Gather-Hunters to sort them for later, so when they want to read a "short comedy" they already have a pile to grab from instead of searching from scratch.

(Some readers rename and remove tracking, but not all do, as is evident from thousands of favorites that would take many years to read.)

7631046

...[I’ve] used the "Starlight Glimmer" tag in forty [stories]. I haven't noticed any unusual tendency for them to get immediate downvotes than stories that don't have her.

Interesting. Since my stories are drama-thrillers about Starlight gaining the skills that would make her canon evil in the The Cutie Map and The Cutie Re-Mark, they might strike potential readers as a little more immediately unfriendly than yours. The tags are visible on the front page of the site, which gives a clue. Though humor (usually dark and snarky) is my hallmark, none of my Starlight stories are comedies... I think. I am going to check out your stories, however. I think I already have one on my Read Later bookshelf.

7631022

Besides me being a Bills fan, I also like the 49ers so I have multiple reasons to hate Dallas.

7631083

Yeah, some people vote on description alone.
"No time to read, but it's every citizen’s duty to vote", or whatever they teach these days.

Very droll. You get a gold star and an up-vote for making me laugh. 🌟

7630967
What I don’t get is why people feel the need to do that.

Like, what is the benefit to them? Like seriously, how does making a bot for downvoting help literally ANYONE?

7631110
I've always had the suspicion that—if the very anecdotal stories of downvoting are actually true and not an outcome of bad understanding of variables updating and what shows up and what not—there might be a few authors around who immediately downvote any story that makes it on "new," especially if at that time they've updated/published their own. So they can hurt the competition and have a small 'advantage' of getting their story read/promoted.

It's super petty, ineffective, and very poorly thought out as a tactic, so I think it tracks. I have seen people around the site who would climb over your dead body and plant their flag in your decomposing anus in front of your grieving mother if it gave them a comment that said "Nice."

7631183
And this is supposed to be a site that promotes friendship.

Grrr.

7631190

And this is supposed to be a site that promotes friendship.

Well, no. It's a site that promotes fanfiction reading for readers, and fanfiction meta for authors. It's a dog eat dog world, and we all look to make our story better, our cover art shinier, our title fancier, than the last guy's. We're pushing up on sinking sand, using the rotten bodies of past authors and stories as ladders on our rise for air and that sweet, sweet, like/dislike ratio. Friendship has no place here, not when the facade of friendship will net you followers and a reader base. And to do that, you have to be the best, and the easiest way for you to be the best is for others to be worse. Hoard the secrets, and never give advice that hasn't been shared a thousand times already. Don't fix misunderstandings, but promote the misinformation. Always show, pretend is the rule to them, never tell. Watch as their stories crumble under the weight of bad characters that you insisted will be fixed if they add a few negative traits. Glee as the downvotes gather, herded by the opinion that every character must have a backstory. Laugh as they attempt to hamfist sympathy for a villain that you assured them must always have it because there's no other way. Tell them you never downvote, even as you go through their published stories one by one, so you can guilt one more antagonist into submission.

Fight. Kill. Sabotage. Nothing is sacred, nothing is out of bounds. Only thing that matters is the Box. The Box and the Upvote.

...You know, if you're a psychopath.

7631044

Might not be 24-hours for the same author different story those—It might be as simple as my epilogue was at the top of the updates when I published the sequel and it checked for two by the same author as the last post. Result was the same, and I’m glad I published in that order considering what occurred.

A few years ago, I posted chapter updates to two stories and a new story simultaneously, and all three showed up on the front page. I probably wouldn't have done it if I'd been thinking of the possibility (I didn't actually think of the front page at all), but there was definitely no per-author throttling then.

One more question, though: how long did you wait to see if your stories showed up on the front page? Because as I understand it, the front page is throttled so that it only posts one new entry in the new stories and updated stories every set amount of time, so that floods of posts don't wipe stories off the front page before they can be seen. Again, I don't know if things changed at some point. Did you check back after some time to see if the second one went through, or did you only look immediately after posting them?

7631223
There was one day where one popular author had most or all of the slots on the featured box due to them releasing a bunch of short stories in a short time, so I don't think there's per author throttling...

--Sweetie Belle

7631225
Yeah, I didn't think so. I mean, I don't really keep up on the fine details of how the site is designed, but this is the first I'd even heard someone speculating such a thing.

7631084

Though humor (usually dark and snarky) is my hallmark, none of my Starlight stories are comedies... I think. I am going to check out your stories, however. I think I already have one on my Read Later bookshelf.

If you do, I hope you enjoy them! Comedy is by far the genre I write the most, but I have written a few non-comedy stories, including an HIE one with Starlight that basically handles her redemption/reformation differently.

7631110

Like, what is the benefit to them? Like seriously, how does making a bot for downvoting help literally ANYONE?

Truth be told, if these people exist, I don't think they create a bot for this purpose, but were rather just online when they spotted a story by the person who they don't like, a story that features something that irks them, a story that's been spammed in multiple places, or they just wanted to downvote stories to death because they had a bad day or whatever their motivation might have been. Not sure if that's better than creating a downvote bot account, to be honest. Still seems really petty.

7631199
praise be upon thy sinbox

7631199
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GO- *Cough*

Sorry, you kinda riled me up there at the end.

Good news. I got back on track after all this distrurbance, writing. Finally my character into the situation where she smoothly triggers the climax battle of the story. Took 18,000 words to get there. The rest will be easy.

Thank you everyone for helping me over today’s speed-bump!

7631223

...how long did you wait to see if your stories showed up on the front page?

Since I have auto-accept, new stories stay in Wait-to-Post state for no more than 10 minutes. Consistently. My story page when from Wait-to-Post to Revoke Submission, not nothing posted on the from page. One time, a story took almost an hour, but that was years ago and probably site maintenance or something. Chapters appear in the updates column essentially instantly. I’ve seen traffic jams where my story is off the front page in minutes. Story 2 never showed, though I looked every 10 minutes, then later every hour. It was a sluggish day. Not many stories got submitted. The story has a saturated blue color... I don’t think I would have missed it.

7631183
This is an interesting theory. It fails the perpetrator in the sense that down-votes are activity that added to up-votes or just lots of view, can actually help promote the story. Still, if my mysterious down-voters are those that get satisfaction from making others feel bad, I can be happy that I somehow made them happy.

7631110
The person that did it might think it is very funny? There are many different types of people in the world; it keeps it from being boring, I guess.

7631190

And this is supposed to be a site that promotes friendship.

Yep. But humans are peculiar.

7631225

I don't think there's per author throttling...

It was odd. Like I said, blue cover, hard to miss. I might have... In any case, this double submit one after the other was something I’d never think of doing normally, and was ok it didn’t show up (or would ever show up). Those who want to read story 2 will find it having finished story 1 and reading the blog. The ridiculous two instantaneous down-votes got my goat, however, thus this thread.

7631272

...or they just wanted to downvote stories to death because they had a bad day

Another good theory. I’ve known plenty of people who feel better once they’ve made someone else hurt as badly as they do. It’s much better they down-vote my story than hit someone, I guess, though pathetic. If any of my down-voters noticed this thread, I’m sure they were tickled pink until they read this reply. I’ll get find my down-voted for this for sure!

Well, just for giggles, I looked at my “thermometer”. Some of my down-voters might have seen this thread! Discounting the original two down-votes, long after it left the front page the story has received three more down-votes after only six additional views. Nothing really statistical about this, but it feels extraordinary considering a story like this would normal expect about 3-4 downvotes (discussed above), and I consistently get up-votes at a 10% ratio to views.

Maybe I really have managed to annoy a few people who are unwilling, or not courageous enough, to tell me why. They might have had a really good point they could have shared with other readers on my story page, but no one will ever know.

7631299

Well, just for giggles, I looked at my “thermometer”. Some of my down-voters might have seen this thread! Discounting the original two down-votes, long after it left the front page the story has received three more down-votes after only six additional views.

Looking at the six downvotes currently sitting on your original post, I'm not really surprised. I've been on this site long enough to know that "Why is my story getting downvotes?" kind of threads pretty much always result in stories being downvoted even more, either because it's a hidden plea for counterbalancing the downvotes or because it exposes the story to more people who either really dislike something about it or who just want to kick the author when he's apparently vulnerable. I believe that a few years ago, this group even had a rule about that kind of thread being prohibited, albeit it was removed in the rule revision.

7631304
It kind of amuses me. Since it’s a sequel, those that finished the first story will likely read the sequel. I feel the story’s fan service. All my work here is because I know some people really like my stories. Not making any money. Just makes the extraneous down-votes kind of pitiful (ok, annoying too). Not going to say I shouldn’t get them for genuine reasons. Heck, those few people that down-voted story 1 might feel it necessary to down-vote 2. I’d accept that. Without comments, who will know?

I believe that a few years ago, this group even had a rule about that kind of thread being prohibited, albeit it was removed in the rule revision.

Yeah, I image that makes sense. If the down-votes had happened over the course of an hour, I’d just have shrugged it off. I can usually tell after reading for five minutes if I will like a story; I understand people might down-vote and up-vote every story because that’s what the site’s doc seems to imply. Look, read a bit, dislike it. Happens. But down-voting after no more than a minute? No way that could be read, even the long description. I just had to ask what other people thought. It really did disturb me. Thread’s been interesting and informative, tho, so I'm glad I did post.